I have had my Kitchenaid FL washer a week now. I wanted to go ahead and start a thread about this machine. As I have more experience with this machine I will add.

First of all a big drawback to this machine is that it is very hard to actually see one before you buy it. I live in the San Francisco Bay Area and I went to all the big box stores and none had the Kitchenaid FL on display. In addition, check out this web site and there are no postings about this machine either. What finally pushed me toward this machine was the forum on Consumer Reports On Line. There I found a thread from a dozen who actually have this machine and since there were no horror stories, I took that as a good sign. In addition, I was able to view the machine on both Kitchenaid's web site and Consumer Report had a picture of it too (with a comment about how stylish it looked).

First the machine I am reviewing is the model # khws02rmt. Last I looked this is the model featured on the Kitchenaid web site. However, I talked to the Kitchenaid consumer 800 number too and I learned that they are now producing a new version of this machine that has at least two revisions. The new version has increased the RPM spin from 1250 to 1300 and has added the Bulky cycle. So if you do order this machine, make certain of which version you are getting.

Moving on, I had two options for color: Meteorite or White. There was a $100 difference in cost for the Meterite. It was well worth it. It is described as "new matte, metallic finish . . . that hides fingerprints and won't compete with the decor in any area of the house." Make no mistake, this is one beautiful, upscale looking machine. The door and the controls (using metal rather than plastic for the controls). This machines appearance coupled with its upgraded sound insulation make this machine perfect for anyone who needs to have the machine in a living area.

The biggest disappointment in this machine was a missing feature. It does not have a delay wash function. This really surprised me that what is considered a upscale machine would not have this feature. It does have a unique option that may give someone a time delay feature. You can set the machine to whatever cycle you want and then push an option button call "Rinse Hold". You go about your business. The machine will run whatever cycle you programmed. You come back home and the machine will have stopped just before the final rinse (as I understand leaving your clothes in rinse water). When you arrive back, you go to the machine and push the "Rinse Hold" button. As soon as you do so, the machine will then complete the final rinse and then the spin. It is a nice function, but I wouldn't say that it is a great replacement for "Delay Wash".

The machine lists as having 12 cycles. Missing from it cycles are two that are found on the Duet. In case you don't know, the Duet and Kitchenaid are both made by Whirlpool. The two missing cycles are "Active Wear" and "Bulky". As I mentioned above, the just released version of this machine is suppose to have the "Bulky" cycle.

Cycles:

Sanitary, Whitest White, Heavy Duty, Rapid Wash, Delicate, Silk, Wool, Handwash, Soak, Rinse/Soak, Drain/Spin.

Options:

There are 4 options available. They are: Rinse/Hold (I already described this option), prewash, auto soak and extra rinse.

It is interesting as you don't have total freedom to use the options. The four longer cycles (Sanitary, Whitest Whites, Heavy Duty, and Normal Casual) are allowed to have any of the four options you may wish to have. I guess there is some sense to this. I mean you program that you want a rapid wash, so it wouldn't make much sense to have a prewash. In addition, you can never use both Prewash and Autosoak for the same load. You can have one or the other but not both. There is logic behind this as they both use the same detergent slot. Also you should be aware that you are going to use the autosoak, you need to use powder detergent for the main laundry detergent slot as otherwise liquid detergent would seep out during the autosoak.

For water temps, you have the option of
Super Hot/cold
Hot/Cold
Warm/Warm
Warm/cold
Cold/cold

You need to be aware that with some cycles, you don't have the freedom to reset the water temp.

The manual that comes with the machine is really good in that for each of the cycles it tells you the suggested load type for each one PLUS it tells you briefly what the machine will be doing different for this cycle. For instance, the Whitest White includes an additional rinse to make certain the bleach is all rinsed out.

Water temps are as follows: Super Hot is 153; Hot is 122; Warm is 104; and cold is 77.

Inital reaction to this machine is that it is a beauty in terms of appearance. It can't be beat for being so quite. Whirlpool uses the standard sound insulation as they do for the Duet and then for this machine they reconfigured the water exit hose to cut down on the noise additionally.

With the Kitchenaid you get a two year warranty.

My two previous FL machines had spin maximums of 900 (Frigidaire FL) and 1100 (new Maytag Neptune). It is amazing how much faster 1250 seems! I ran a really clunky load. The machine itself took the load in stride, but once it kicked up the final rinse speed, you could feel the floor vibrate and the dryer vibrated too! The Kitchenaid just took it in stride. I know with my Neptune (that I had for all of a month), it really seemed to balk at small loads, like it couldn't adjust to having a small load to spin. This machine doesn't seem to have that problem.

Any case, this is just a first posting. After I obtain more real world experience, I will post back!

Interesting that you couldn't find a local store stocking the machine. There's a furniture/appliance store in this little Texas town that has an Ensemble pair on display, in Meteorite. The local store isn't particularly large, but I just checked the parent company's web site. I'm familiar with them, they've been around for many years, but it's a larger company than I realized. They have 37 locations across TX and one in Oklahoma.

I just knew it was lacks!! There's one in Temple too.

The local Western Auto has Duets on display, and *maybe* a KA set. I know they handle KA dishwashers. Haven't been in the store in a while, and I can't see everything clearly through the window when driving past.

Regarding locations that have the Kitchenaid on display, I know here in the San Francisco Bay Area, none of the "big box" stores had it on display. There might be some smaller speciality stores that have it.

I need to clarify something. I had called Kitchenaid customer service and I was lead to believe that there was a updated Kitchenaid front loader. I have since found out that this is not correct. The model Khws02rmt is the most current model (the one shown on Kitchenaid's web site and the one I purchased). It does have the 1300 rpm speed. The report of the machine having a bulky setting is incorrect; it does not.

One observation I want to make about the new front loaders, they do clearly clean better than not only top loaders, but earlier front loaders as well. I am basing this on my experience with the small Frigidaire front loader I had for 8 years, plus Consumer Reports. CR clearly rates all of the new machines as providing superior cleaning compared to the older front loaders (like the old Neptune).

Kudos to Whirlpool for coming up with a door boot design that elimates that puddle of water that forms in the door seal! I noticed this on my KA and then checked out at Costco this morning and confirmed that the Duet uses this design as well. What they have done is formed the gasket in such a way as it does not have indent that allowed water to catch. Instead the gasket is affixed to a liner in the machine. At the lowest point in the gasket, they punched a series of holes in the liner, allowing any water to weep back into the machine!

Reading through my manual, I was surprised to see that they suggested that you could wash a king-sized bedspread in the KA front loader. I am surprised as the drum does seem just a tad smaller than the new Neptune and my king size bedspread just barely fit into it. I guess with a bedspread there is a lot of variance in terms of thickness.

The manual also states the machine has 2 springs to isolate the vibration and 4 shock absorbers at the washer base. I assume - but don't know - that that is pretty standard on all the new front load machines. It is interesting as this machine does an excellent job of not rattling or shaking itself, but you have to be certain not to place anything on top of it during operations as any item on top of the machine will rattle. I have found that if the load is not "clunky", everything is fine with the machine and the laundry room. If the load is "clunky", everything is still fine with the machine, but for some reason other things in the laundry room will vibrate and rattle (specifically the dryer and anything on top of it).

Here is a question regarding water temp. My super hot temp is 153 degrees. My hot temp is 122. In order to get the whites the whitest, would it be better to use the temp of 153 or 122? This might seem like a no-brainer (use the hotest water possible), but I note that when you use the cycle "Whitest Whites", it uses the Hot setting rather than the Super Hot water temp. Seems like if the super hot temp was better for getting whites the whitest, the manufactor would have programmed in the super hot temp for that cycle.

If anyone could enlightned, I would appreciate it.

These are the ones I took a pic of in a local store in Nebraska whilst attending the convention, are these yours??

For the whitest whites I would use the 122 temp for light / normal soil with a biological powder.For heavy soil I would use the higher max temp.

The FAB part of a new machine is learning how it all works and hangs together, enjoy...

Frontloadfan,
I realy have to agree with you on the WP FL washer series. It seems to be a better built door boot than the rest in that it doesn't retain water. Their are things good and bad about all these machines. On my LG combo their is always a puddle in the door boot but not very big. The new Frigmores has a bigger issue with the door boot in that it retains a lot of water. I wish we the appliance fans could design these machines! We would come up with awsome appliances.
Peter

Thanks Chestermikeuk!

That's a nice picture. I have only the washer (my dryer is a perfectly fine Kenmore with stainless steel drum and since I only use a dryer during winter, I don't see any need to replace it).

I go to London every couple of years. One of the things I enjoy doing is going into one of the Department stores and checking out the washing machines.

Tell me, are they starting to get any mega front loaders in the UK? I know they might be a pretty hard sell as I have seen how limited space is in so many UK kitchens. My first front loader was the Frigidaire 3.1 sq. ft. I know when I had friends from UK look at it, they thought it was hugh!

I talked to KA customer service today. I wanted clarification on what the KhwS02rmt has extra compared to the previous machine (one with 1 in code). It has two things: superior sound insulation and faster spin speed (1300 rpm).

I also checked with Whirlpool to see the fasted spin speed on their Duet. I was told 1200 rpm is currently the fastest spin speed. It is interesting as I think I read a post somewhere that someone was at a Sears and there was a Duet there that is made special for Sears with a 1250 spin speed.

If I'm not mistaken, the "Sanitary Cycle" is used to basically disinfect the clothes through heat. A bud of mine who is a costume designer for a local university ordered his duet for his new costume shop with the sanitary cycle. His reasoning was when actors must wear previously worn foundationware. Bras, Panties, etc. They really should be disinfected before being worn.

I have noticed that my whitest whites settings, while getting the clothes super clean, also has a tendency to wear out my socks. I suppose the elastic goes from the heat of the water (around 140 here) and the fabric from the heavy duty washing.

I have a queen comforter that I was regularily in the duet. It washes it fine, however, the dryer dries it terribly. I have to constantly take it out and turn it inside out, refolder it, etc. It is a pretty thick comforter. I could probably get a king size in if it wasn't very thick.

Just my two cents...

duetboy
aka jeff

Regarding using whitest white vs. sanitary cycle for whites, I know growing up you always hear that people actually boil water to soak white in to get them the whitest.

I did one load of whites with the sanitary cycle and they came out really white. I guess it is a trade off as the sanitary cycle is probably pretty harsh on the clothes.

I guess from now on, I will go with the whitest white cycle.

Another question I wish could be resolved is which really gets whites the whitest, liquid bleach or oxi clean?

I was looking at my initial review and I noticed I left out one cycle. I did not list Normal Casual.

I am curious for those of you who have the Duet or Kenmore HE's, do they tightly control your settings temp settings for the various cycles? By that I mean for instance, I want to give some clothes a really nice long wash. Sanitary and Whitest White are out of the question, so I go to the next longest cycle: Heavy Duty. Fine, I set for Heavy Duty but then the water temp automatically sets for Hot/Cold and it will not permit me to lower the temp setting to Warm/Cold. I personally would like the freedom to adjust the water temp as I see fit. I guess with Sanitary and Whitest White, I can see why those temps should be locked in, but I think they went too far in also regulating the temperature for Heavy Duty.

Any case, I can see what I can do to go around this. I pick Normal Casual (which allows me to have the warm/cold setting) and then I pick the options that will make for a longer wash time: either pre-wash or autosoak and select that they are heavily soiled.

The flexibility of my Duet has been my only complaint since getting them 16 months ago. There is too much "pre-programming" done for the user, for some this may be fine but I would actually prefer to have a broader range of choices of temp, wash time, etc. One the most annoying things is that you have reset the machine after soaking to get a spin. It defaults to "no spin" but you cannot change this setting. The same is true for water temps, sometimes I would like to have the option of a hot water wash AND the delicate/handwash programming. I realize that these choices are built in to prevent user errors and poor performance and/or damage to garments but they have limited the use of the machine to their own parameters with no options for change. Even on the TOL models, the cycle modifiers are still limited by the programming at the factory. A programming sequence like the GE Harmony's for favorite, custom cycles would be a nice addition. Perhaps with the coming advances in connectivity from home computers to appliances, this will be easier.

Does anyone have an opinion which is the most effective in terms of cleaning, the auto soak or the pre wash? I can't say I can determine which is the most effective, but I have to admit I really like seeing the clothes "soaked" in inches of water. It is interesting as the water level seems to vary when using the auto soak. I guess that is attributable to how the load happens to fit into the water as it is filling. This is just my theory, but I surmise that if as the machine is filling a good part of the load is positioned so it is not in the lower part of the tub, the machine fills up more than it would otherwise. Then later when the majority of the clothes happen to fall into the lower part, you have the higher water level. I have noticed that on some loads the water level is actually hitting the bottom of the glass door. It appears that if you opened the door, some water would drain out (maybe not, but I don't want to put it to the test). Other times in auto soak, the water isn't nearly that high.

I was going to mention that the Energyguide that came with my machine states the Kitchenaid is rated at 312 kwh/year. This is on a scale of 113 to 680. Does anyone know which machines are at the low end (113)? I also wonder if machines with an internal heater have that count against them on the energy rating? It would make sense that a machine using an internal water heater would be using more energy than one than didn't. On the other hand, you could save somewhat on energy overall by having your hot water heater turned down knowing that your washing machine could provide its own heating.

I have had my Kitchenaid over a month now. Just wanted to give an update.

One of the big advantages to this machine, or rather to a machine with this capacity, is the ability to do fewer loads. With my Frigidaire when I realled filled it up, I could tell it was a strain for the machine.

With the mega capacity, I have discovered I can fill it up (following the guide that clothes should be loosely placed into machine and that door should close easily) and the machine can really handle the load, with no apparent strain. With the Frigidare when I totally filled it up, once the clothes got really wet, there would appear to be 1/5 of the drum empty. With the Kitchenaid there appears to half of the drum empty. Part of this is related to the larger drum I believe while the other part is due to the auto soak option I run before the regular cycle. The auto soak really ensures that the clothese are soaked (and washed) through and through. Plenty of room for tumbling action. Any case, net result is I have to do only 3 loads a week rather than 4. Actually in terms of volume, I could easily do the washes in two loads but I break the washing down into heavy duty, whites and permanent press.

The strong features of this machine, as I have said before, are its attractive exterior, its quiet performance and the ability to do either mega loads or really small loads without the machine having fits about it.

I really wish this machine came with the bulky cycle, but using the auto soak option gives you 30 minutes of really wet soaking.

Only real down side to this machine is that they did not include delay wash capacity. Kitchenaid has its own version "Rinse Hold", where the machine will go through entire cycle, but hold for the final rinse until you return and push a button. It is a nice feature, but I don't think it is a great replacement for delay wash.

It will be interesting to see if down the line, Whirlpool will adopt the 1300 rpm final spin speed for the Duet. It is interesting as the regular whirlpool that you would buy at Best Buy or Lowes has a spin speed of 1,200. Then if you go to Sears, Whirlpool sells a special version of the Duet that has a 1,250 spin speed. Then when they produce the Kitchenaid version, they use the 1300 rpm spin. Maybe there is some agreement between Sears and Whirlpool that Whirlpool will not make the higher speed on any Duet except if sold at Sears?

Thanks for the update; The Ensembles are truly beautiful machines. I'm impressed they're increasing the spin speed to 1300 rpm. That's DAMN fast for a tub that big.

I really don't like their Rinse Hold idea; Who would want to leave their clothes soaking in rinse water all day? Yuck. A simple Delay Wash feature would have been much better. Of course, I probably wouldn't use that feature often, anyway. I tend to do the wash when I'm home.

The Rinse hold feature is an oldfashioned European thing. Rinse hold used to be a default setting on the end of permanent press and delicate cycles. It gives you the possibility to spin out the clothes when you want so you can take them out right after the spin cycle.

Just wanted to mention three weeks ago I was on the internet and decided to check on the Kitchenaid web site to see if they had any new product information. I happened to stumble onto a rebate they were offering! The rebate time period covered me in terms of when I had bought my KitchenAid washing machine. I filled out the form, sent it in and got my $50!

I just wanted to mention for anyone who has recently purchased an applicance to keep checking on the internet to see if any rebate is being offered.

I am still really happy with my KitchenAid. One feature I have really grown to love is the Autosoak option. I really like how it gets the clothes so wet and for a full 30 minutes!

Every Friday night I come home from work and load the machine to the gills with all colored clothes (except for dress shirts and pants). I use the "heavy duty" cycle with the autosoak option and the extra rinse option, for a run time just under 2 hours! What is impressive is that the machine will start out as full as it can be, but after it has totally soaked the load, it is down to 50% full.

For those of you that have the Duet with the "bulky" wash cycle, is it like the autosoak or is it different? The only two features that the Kitchenaid lacks compared to the Duet is the "bulky" cycle and the Delay wash option. I am really amazed they left the delay wash option out.

and STILL a painted drum in the dryer.

Stainless steel=>> "discovered" in 1910............

Hey Steve,

I do agree with you about stainless steel drums in dryers. I would much rather pay good $$$ for stainless on the inside rather than the outside......especially dryer drums and dishwasher tubs. Being in the repair business, I've seen my share of "blue" white powder coated drums!!! lol

:-)


Rule #1:
I am not always right; but I am never wrong.

Rule #2:
Any doubt? Refer to rule #1.


Just serious.. (er kidding). TKS!

My dryer is only 3 years old and it has a stainless steel drum, so I have elected not to buy the matching KA dryer. You bring up a good point in why they wouldn't go with a stainless steel drum in the dryer.

The dryer I have was a Kenmore mate to my Frigidaire front loader. Down side is that it is overwhelmed by the mega loads coming from the washer. Back when it was handling loads generated by my Frigidaire fl, it was taking 50 to 60 minutes to dry. With the biggest loads coming from the KA, we are talking about 1-1/2 hours!

*WOW*

You guys are not kidding that these F/L-ers are super-sized.

Must go see...

I have seen the KA FL machines at the Western Appliance in San Leandro.

The first time I saw one was a couple of years ago. If I'm not mistaken, that one had a darker gray cabinet, and it was stunning. The most recent versions appear to be a bit lighter, and not as dramatic, but still very nice.

Wet washing fabric depends upon three energy inputs: thermal, mechanical, and chemical. All three are intensified by time. So, for the very whitest whites, the Sanitary option could be used. Me, I get very white whites with my 130F Neptune 7500. I use every trick to extend the time of the wash cycle, so that the total cycle time is 109 minutes. I also use a phosphated detergent, and the results speak for themselves. If I had a machine that went to a higher temp, I would wash the whites up to 160F. Above that, I'd probably only wash stuff without elastic.

I sometimes use the 109 minute 130F cycle for work clothes that are especially dirty. I work in a metal shop and when I have to service one of the big machines, my shop/lab coat can get pretty grimy. I can also muck up jeans and shirts pretty good when working at home on one of my vintage cars or in the garden.

hey guys!
your all really lucky to have these huge machines. they sound very fun! there starting to filter through here in the uk. but the main problem being space as we have standard counter top height & width. alot of people having seperate laundry rooms now helps the situation though.

i work for an electrical retailer here in the uk. & we've started to see some "BIG" washers coming into the market. theres the bosch nexxt which is called "logixx9" over here. the ariston "extendia" which is sold under the hotpoint brand here. which has a 8.5Kg load & 1400rpm!...the whirlpool "dreamspace" as its known here. better known as the "duet" to you guys. i did consider one of these monsterous machines...which would be fine while i'm living at home but i plan on getting my own place next year & space would be a problem again.

i wanted to say something about the "soaking" option. my AEG oko_Lavamat 74640 has that with the option to make it last 1-23 hours!! it fills up to the lip of the seal & tumbles every few minutes...also it heats to 30degrees. jon has the same option on his aeg too. i find it more effective than prewashing!

can anyone explain how the bulky cycle works on these Kitchenaid FL's? we've similar options on some machines giving the option to utalise the full load.

Also,do the waterlevels ever become visable? my samsung fills right up to the curve of the glass but once it starts tumbling its not visable again.

thanks

Darren

Hi!

I make it over to London every few years. One of my things to do is always to go to one of the big department stores and check out the washers. Whenever I have looked, they never had any mega machines, but I hear from a friend that they are now starting to see them.

I was curious, are any of them bigger than the Whirlpool (our Duet)? Here in the U.S. there are several machines (Duet, Hettie, Kitchenaid) at the 3.8 cu. ft. size. Then there is a Maytag Neptune that is actually made by Samsung that is 3.81 cu.ft. in size. Sorry about using the the "ft." scale (metric never caught on here). Now there is talk that LG will be coming out with a machine that will be 4.0 cu. ft. in size.

But back to your question, Kitchenaid is made my Whirlpool and they consider it an upscale machine. They give it extra sound proofing and a faster spin speed (1300 vs. 1200 for the Duet). They also give it extra styling and nice knobs, door fittings, etc. On the other hand, they don't give it all the cycles you get with the top of the line duet. The top of the line Duet has two extra cycles - one which is the "bulky" cycle.

As I understand it, however, the "bulky" give extra water during the wash cycle. With my KA, I use the auto soak option before the regular cycle. That gives 30 minutes with the water up to the edge of the door and the machine tumbling and then pausing before the next tumble.

You were asking about the water level being visible. With my Kitchenaid, you really have to strain to see a water level on most of the cycles. The trend here is make the machines more and more water efficient. A lot of people are wandering if they are overdoing it. That is what I like about having the autosoak option as it gives you the option of really giving your clothes a good soaking.

My KA does not have the option of giving a really "wet" rinse, but I understand that the brand (Kenmore) that Whirlpool makes for Sears has an option to give the wet rinse.

You mentioned your Samsung washer. Samsung is just now getting its applicances carried our here. They sound like they really make some great washers for the UK.

Hey Frontloadfan,
thanks for replyin! to answer your question.there isnt a machine bigger than the duet here yet! i doubt that there will be that things huuuuuge! lol. actually maybe there is the LG Tromm which is 10Kg which im not sure wot it is in cu.ft i lost my converter lol. i think its bigger than the duet.

i have to admit the kitchenaid does look much nicer than the duet. u must use the soak option alot? i think its very effective! even on just a typical full load of clothes. helps to get everything saturated! :)

i didn't think there'd be much visable water on a machine so big & modern but i bet its fun to watch:) although i think this water efficiency thing is getting ridiculous. its great if to conserve but not at the expense of rinsing results. especially when alot of people are getting skin allergys now. theres an article on www.asko.se/ about the whole not many machines are rinsing properly. thats why i'm very happy to have a machine which will let me do 5 rinses! which are fairly deep for a modern machine. but i've been spoilt with machines that take a heck of an amount of water! and that don't have any option for extra rinsing because they didnt need it!! lol.

how does the kitchenaid "wet rinse" work? does it jst keep refilling once the movement begins to keep the clothes really saturated?

& to answer your final question i've had my samsung a couple of weeks and i think its a really great machine! the brand is gettin alot of strength behind it & given time like any manufacturer they will be a big name!

Darren

Hey again Frontloadfan!

just lookin through the thread again & noticed you had a samsung made neptune! & you said about it had trouble balancing a load & didnt like small loads. thats very remenisant of my samsung sometimes it gets really fussy & wont spin for ages. constantly trying to balance the load. hmmm. its really annoying especially when 2 of my older machines have no out of balance sensor at all & jst dance a little or alot lol.

though i can see how out of balance sensors are good because i ran a towel load through my 18year old hoover logic frontloader & too many wet towels got on oneside of the drum & it fired up to 800rpm thankfully i didnt let it get to 1300 lol & it jumped one side of the room to the other & would'v continued to had i not jumped on it & killed the power lol. it scared the life outta me! lol.

Darren

Hi Darren,

Unfortunately, my KA frontloader does not have the wet rinse function. Whirlpool makes three different versions of its mega large washer. It makes one for its own brand, another for its "upscale" brand, Kitchenaid and it makes the third version for Kenmore. The only one of the three machines that has the wet rinse function is the Kenmore.

Yes, I really do love the autosoak option. One of the reasons is what you stated, it really gets the load 100% wet! I have gotten where I run the autosoak option with any wash I do. It is probably not necessary for all loads, but I feel good about making certain the clothes are getting a nice long soak (30 minutes) prior to the main wash. Another factor is when you are doing a really large load, the autosoak really serves to shrink down the load. I mean you start out the drum is 100% full (but not packed tight, and the door will readily shut). You get the autosoak going and by the end of it, the load has shrunk down to 50 or 60% of the drum.