I moved the Maytag Neptune TL down to the basement tonight and ran a couple of loads. This is one very odd washer... I haven't studied it too closely, but did get a few surprises. Let's have a quick tour. Loaded and ready:

Here is the selections I chose. Super Wash cycle, hot/cold, medium soil level(Stain Treat is lit but I changed it after the pic was taken) max extract and extra rinse.

Washing. This is just strange. The two discs move in the same direction, no reversing, through the entire wash cycle. The load it lifted up and tumbled back down and around. The clothes are saturated completely and there is a pool of water in the bottom of the tub about 4-5" deep. The speed and water level vary with the cycle chosen.

More washing, captivating! Like a front loader, the water pool is constantly being pulled up with the load so the clothes are bringing water up with them which is slapped against the tub side creating the wash action.

This cycle has a spin-drain! The washer briefly pauses after washing stops and the tub begins to turn at a fair rate of speed and the drain pump comes on to pump out the water. At the end of the first rinse, the tub starts to spin a brisk rate of speed swirling water up the sides of the basket and outer tub for a few seconds before the pump starts which helps clean it out. The spin-drains and neutral drain sequences vary by cycle.

Overall, the washer seems to do a good job. There are spray rinses, high speed spins and extra-deep rinses - drama galore! The final rinse fills all the way to the seam (a little more above the center of the disc) and the rinse water was far more drinkable than I'd imagined it would be. BTW, I used Fresh Start Jon!! Not a rouge bubble in the whole cycle!

so was there any evidence of the tangling problem people mention about this machine?

Oy, that last picture made me dizzy!! LOL

Anyway, thanks for the pictures. I was wondering about the water level, is it higher than in the Duet? Because of the shape of the drum I guess it should be higher in order to saturate the clothes. Further, I assume those discs turn in the same direction? IIRC they are exactly the same, so if they are turning the same direction one disc turns "with the thread of the spiral" and the other one against (I hope I was able to explain it), am I right?

Very interesting, and very clever design there! Seems to me that what we have is, the discs rotate such that their deep edge picks up the load and drops it back down in the water.

Imagine a Hoovermatic with two impellers on opposite sides of the tub. However, in this case the tub slants inward toward the bottom, so a small load that wouldn't engage with the impellers if they were perfectly parallel, will slide to the bottom of the v-shaped geometry of the impellers with angled axes as on the Maytag. Then the shape of the impellers engages the clothes, and there is no need to have the waterline above the top of the impellers.

Maytag definitely gets points for thinking of this one. With a bit of experience one can probably avoid the tangling problem that some have complained about. Too bad these are probably going to disappear; hang on to the one you've got there, in 20 years it's going to be seen as a very interesting development.

Thanks for sharing those neat pictures Greg. I have always wanted to see one in action. Can't wait to see this machine work first hand. Terry

Greg,
Thanks for the great pictures. Looks like it would be real exciting to watch. It should be designed with a full view window!
Peter

Very interesting! I always wondered how those worked after I saw them at the Sears scratch n dent warehouse here earlier this summer. They had about 12 of these machines here. Must have been returned due to the tangling problem you all talk about. Seems to be quite a nice machine though...very unique design.

I am curious as to how the mechanicals work on such an interesting beast! Does the washtub come to a rest in the same spot after a spin? You gotta take the cover off that washer because I am totally curious as to how the washer agitates the clothes on a horizontal axis, and the spins them on a vertical axis. There has to obviously be a way to transfer the mechanical motion to the agitator discs no matter what direction they are facing!

Take some video shots of this machine in action! That will be good for the gallery!

Very neat machine...I've been itching to know what the washing and spinning action looked like under the lid! Basically a top-loader that washes like a front-loader if you ask me! And it does deep rinses too...how fun!

How many pounds can one of these hold? Maytag claims the capacity is pretty big...

Greg,

This is my first time to see one of these in action! Thanks so much. I think it could be a collectors item one day. Really!

Steve

I can't get over you found this Neptune in such wonderfull shape?
I am sure this will be on the back burner with your new ABC set.
This is a cool washer. And to think you get to play with it for nothing!
Can't wait to hear more about it.
Thanks for the pictures, thus far.
Brent

Funny, I was in our brand new Home Depot Fri night & someone was buying one of these. All I could think about was the corn oil. Are you sure yours wasn't a floor model or something?
Jerry

wow! Got any videos?

Wow - very neat machine indeed! Can't wait for any future videos - but don't forget to have a towel handy :-).

Is this a machine for keeps?

Jon

Thanks Greg.

Fascinating!

Is the front panel removable a la typical Dependable Care Maytag?

Said: The disks turn in the same direction.


Both clockwise? Both couter-clockwise? Or one of each such that the load is handled as if in an imaginary horizontal axis front-loader?

In such a way that the load is handled as if in an imaginary H-axis frontloader.

Here is the picture that I posted in the first thread, you can see the discs for reference. Contrary to what you might think, the discs only turn clockwise - you'd think they would turn the opposite (counterclockwise) direction with the ridge to help lift the clothes, but the clothes move in a rolling motion with the discs. This seemed so odd to me the first time I saw it a year ago, but the clothes actually do get moving pretty vigorously. The other strange things is that if you notice in this picture the "step" or ridge on the disc can be seen at the 12 o'clock position on one and if you look closely, you can see the the ridge on the opposite side is at about the 6 o'clock position. They are never together in exactly the same alignment, always this same configuration. Now to be a bit more confusing, this is a reversing motor machine. When it first starts it twirl-drain & spinning sequence, the discs move ever-so slowly in a counterclockwise direction to help lift the load up and help spread it out over the surface of the drum. This counterclockwise rotation happens at the same time the tub begins to spin so when the clothes are lifted, they are grabbed by the g-forces and held to the sides of the tub.

I've been quite pleased with the results so far, I'm sure I'll find things I don't care for along the way - as with ANY washer, but the cleaning seems to be outstanding. I haven't noticed a lot of extra wear on clothes yet and even with a few mixed loads, it hasn't shown any aprreciable tangling or roping. I did a huge load of two sets of queen size sheets and four pillowcases and it came out beautifully - no roping, tangling and it did not rip and tear things to shreds as some have claimed on other sites. Well, not yet anyway ;-)

I'm going to try to grab my sister's video camera so we you all can see this washing and the start of spin (IMO the best part) water levels, etc. This may take a bit as I don't have anyway to convert the video to digital format but we'll get it started anyway!

Greg:

At what speed do the disks turn?

Is there any wash/rinse water recirculation?

Thanks Greg for clearing up my misunderstanding. I don't know how I got that inside my head. Probably by all the talk about the similarity with frontloaders. From what you describe I have the impression it could work a bit like the Dyson frontloader with it's contrarotating action. I'm really looking forward to a video. Glad you like it thus far and you don't have any tangling. I think you should keep the machine, it will be a classic like the Maytag combo I bet.

Peter, similar to a front loader, the discs turn at different speeds and frequency. On Super Wash, the discs turn about +/- 50 rpm continuously through the entire wash cycle, on normal cycle, it's a bit slower with pauses every 20-30 seconds or so. I've not tried the delicate cycles yet, but sweater season is nearly here!

There have been a few pleasant surprises with this washer so far, I'm sure there's more to discover, I'll bet under her skirt is an interesting photo-op...

It would be great to see a video of this machine in action Greg. What is the spin speed? Terry

hi greg...thank you for the pictures...i look forward to videos...ross

I would probably have never bothered with a TL Neptune but it seems VERY different than John's Calapso-failure machine with "E.Disfunction"!!!
Which, in my experienced opinion, does a horrible job, the first machine ever where the water and the clothes stay in different places inside the machine and the water actually misses everything!

To the contrary this machine looks like it really mixes everything up and makes the water actually do some work.

Gotta Love that FRESH START OY!
I can't wait to play with it, maybe I should scout out behind my Lowes.

jet

Greg,
This machine really does sound so interesting!
I bet you are having fun!
Thanks for all of the pictures, and explanations.
Brent

What I want to know, is: "Is it quiet?"

If I were to have a new new washer, I would only be interested in a truly quiet machine.

Here, my washer is in the kitchen, which is literally two steps to the bedroom, and four steps to the living room. (This is a large, yet mostly open space.)


Lawrence/Maytagbear

We've sold quite a few of these. The machine pictured has a final spin of 800rpm. These aren't as quiet as I'd like, but not bad. As for the tangling, I haven't had a complaint. Here is a quote from a Maytag service bulletin that we use to help defuse any potential problems:

"With the introduction of an agitatorless top load washing machine, Maytag consumers are more likely to notice a common washing machine occurrence in the Neptune TL than they may have noticed in previous machines.

The long sleeves of dress shirts and the legs of pants can wrap around one another. The consumer may indicate that their clothes are "tangling". This is not a new phenomenon. What is new is that, without an agitator, a consumer can lift the whole load of laundry out of the machine in one group. It is easier for the customer to see that legs and arms wrap around each other.

One way to reduce this wrapping is to use the Wrinkle Control cycle. The tumbling cycle is modified in the different modes and this mode will reduce wrapping. Using a lower soil level setting will reduce the tumbling time and reduce wrapping. Remember, a heavy soil setting is designed for clothes that are truly quite dirty.

Another common consumer issue is wrinkled clothing. New high efficiency washing machines use higher spin speeds to remove the water from the clothing. This reduces drying time. This higher spin speed also applied a significantly higher centrifugal force on the clothing. This higher force results in the appearance of deeper and more pronounced wrinkles. In most cases, these wrinkles are not set into the fabric. If the clothes are laid out of hung to dry without any tumbling to relax the wrinkles, the wrinkles will remain.

Using fabric softener in the washing machine will also reduce wrinkles. Remember to have the customer dilute the softener in the dispenser.

A quick and easy solution to both the wrapping issue and the wrinkling issue is sitting right next to the washing machine, the dryer. Load the laundry into the dryer and most wrapping and wrinkling will disappear. If the consumer wishes to dry their garments flat or hanging up, a short tumble in the dryer at low heat to relax the wrinkles and wrapping followed by flat or line drying will have great results.

The energy savings offered by high efficiency washing machines can more than offset additional effort needed to get great results. Just like with anything new, there is a certain time needed for adjustment. If the customer gives the washer and dryer pair the opportunity to work together as designed, they will in most cases be happy with the performance and the cleaning levels offered through new washing technologies."

Ahh yes!, as I expected: lift out the clothes-ball, drop it into the tumble dryer, and it automatically "untangles" and "unwrinkles." That's taking "automatic" to a whole new level!

Very interesting explanation on Maytag's part, about the tangle or "wrap" factor. Makes perfect sense. With a center agitator, you lift out one piece at a time and don't tend to notice the fact that shirt sleeves are wrapped around pants legs and so on. Or you notice but it's "not remarkable" since it's always happened that way. But w/o a center agitator, you see a ball of clothes and immediately assume it's tangled, which it's not. But lifting out the whole load in one neat ball, ready to drop into the dryer, is way way cool. Question is, does the matching dryer have a reversing-drum feature where it reverses direction of rotation every so often throughout the cycle?

I figured Maytag had to have put a decent amount of engineering smarts into that design, and it would work properly for anyone who had one and understood how it was supposed to work.

What they really need for this is an animated cartoon ad showing how you use it, and that you can just "dump in" the load w/o arranging items around an agitator, and then lift out the clothes-ball in one swoop, drop it in the dryer, and the dryer separates it all back out again. This could be illustrated very easily nowadays.

I hope they keep it in the product line. Seems to me the best of both worlds in a way, i.e. most of what people like about TLs and the efficiency of a FL, plus vertical axis spin to reduce vibration. And no door seal. Only thing it lacks is a window in the lid, but obviously that's not essential seeing as Gansky was able to bypass the switch easily enough.

What I'd like to see next is one of these with a rotary knob for setting the cycles. For some reason I just can't get used to seeing washers with a bunch of flat touchscreen buttons on them instead of a knob. Hmm!

This is exactly what I've been saying about new washer instructional videos for several years now. For the most part, they are not instructional at all. LG has about the worst one I've ever seen, Whirlpool Duet is closer to what's needed for most people to understand the functions and capabilities of the washer. For the average user that has no clue (or care) what goes on inside the tried and true top loading washer, to open the door or peer through the glass and see a strange sight or two is a bit offputting. Opening the lid of the Maytag Neptune TL and seeing a "ball" of clothes is quite shocking, perhaps if they had left the clothes stuck to the sides of the basket, it would have been more familiar and reassuring that their worlds had not been turned upside down.

Bypassing the lid switches was easy enough, but since the water sprays from nozzles in the top panel into channels in the lid, with it open, the water hits the lid and the front of the observer in a quite embarassing way. I need to experiment with a small piece of rubber or plastic to slip in behind the lid to direct the water flow directly into the tub.

I was just reading through this thread and saw someone mentionthe thought of a hoovermatic with two impellors. What a great idea, especially if they worked against each other. IE. instead of them rotating in the same direction, how about opposite. If anyone saw the movies about the washing action of the Dyson, I get a (non scientist perspective)thought that this would generate and more powerful action with maybe less wear than a normal hoovermatic. Anyone got any ideas on this one?

Gansky1, you know why they set up the water inlets like that, with the channels through the lid and so on: to drench appliance hobbyists and geeks who insist on peeking!:-) Maybe even to discourage competitors' engineers from taking a look and working around the patents too! ("Yow! I'm soaked! Bob, we don't have to worry about competing with this one, it squirts water all over the place!")

Bearpeter, I suggested a dual-impeller Hoovermatic a ways back in I don't remember which thread. The idea was, the two impellers would be opposite each other, and would work in various phases, in sync and opposed, thereby eliminating the horizontal vortex action that tends to cause tangles. But the reason they wouldn't have built it that way is because the mechanism for the second impeller would have meant reduced capacity or made the machine too large for the usual hiding-places where people store their compacts between washdays.

Maytag's design is much more clever than my proposed dual impeller Hoovermatic, because the impellers converge at the bottom, the better to handle small loads with less water; and they act more like lift-and-drop blades than like impellers in the conventional sense.

Maytag had a portable a couple of decades ago, similar to the Hoovermatic but with dual impellers on one side of the tub. Would be interesting to see videos of that.

Actually, small loads in the Neptune TL are quite disappointing. The impeller/discs rotate in the opposite direction you might think in wash/agitate cycles (the 'vane' is not lifting the load at all) and the action is pretty tame with only a few items in the tub. The few items I did in the very first load did move and turn over, OK for lightly soiled or delicate items, but not for heavily soiled items that needed a good scrubbing or thrashing.

This is a real exciting posting Greg! I like runematic's comments and bulletin that was posted. Very educational. Keep the fun disc-ing

Steve

Ahhh, so the discs DO rotate in the opposite direction on small loads! Interesting! It surprises me that there's no "lifting" action by the vane on the disc as well...can you do a small load on the Normal cycle and fool the machine into thinking it's loaded down?

I believe he means that the discs don't rotate in the direction one would assume they should, based on how the large center "vanes" are molded into them ... not that they rotate in the opposite direction during a small load from how they rotate during a large load.

Look at picture #3 above. See how the load is shoved up against the back of the wash basket, which means the disc at the right is turning clockwise and the one on the left is turning counterclockwise. Now look at the disc on the right, at the "vane" that is positioned at the lower right of the picture. With the disc turning clockwise, it slides beneath the clothes and doesn't provide any direct lifting force to roll them over. Also reference this picture.

The little "nubs" molded into the outer edge of the discs, do provide some rollover, as does friction against the surface of the discs with the ridges molded into them. But a very small load, one, two, or three items, may not get much action.

I wonder how a couple of king size pillows would fair in this machine. My duet handles them with ease. I wouldn't expect this machine to fair very well...

MRB

I have changed my mine! I want one now!

Thanks Guys, as they will become famous ya know!

Steve

I'm most facinated by these machines and was wondering if the discs always end up in the same position for tumbling. It appears from your pictures (BTW thank you so much) the discs are at a 12 and 6 O'clock position. Are they always that way for the wash and rinse cycle? I would love to know how the gears re-engage after the spin cycle.

Pillows hmm.... Pillows really need a good drenching, but I bet the Maytag would be great for blankets and suchlike that are more readily soaked through without having to be held under water.

I usually try to wash pillows in a front-loader, preferably one with a higher water level. When I've done them in a Wascomat at one of my commercial accounts, I drench them with a warm pre-wash, then advance the cycle to final spin (OPL machine, no coin box) then restart the cycle again with detergent, etc. I have read in a number of vintage washer user's manuals to open a seam of the pillow ticking and pin shut again - one on each end of the pillow - presumably to allow air to escape. Once ticking gets wet, it doesn't allow air to escape very easily which is why I used the spin cycle to force the air out.

I'm going to borrow my sister's video camera and will take some shots of the Nep-TL so everyone can see exactly how it runs. Glenn (dadoes) has the right idea though - discs only run in one direction, opposite of what you might think. All will be clear with video...

The discs dont really start in same "spot" everytime. The transsmission operates much the same as many other T/L's. One direction locks the gears and allows for spin and the other direction turns the gears for washing. The only key is make sure the discs are re-installed in a certain position if they are removed for servicing. There are 2 arrows, one on each disc, that must line up together upon re-installation. If they are not, they (maytag) warns that it would cause poor washing and extream tangling.


Scott

Thanks so much for the review. My husband and I have been contemplating getting this machine, as well as it's dryer counterpart, but the price has deterred us for awhile. I believe the washer alone is $999 and the dryer is $599.

Hopefully the price will go down for a new machine one day, though it's been about a year now and the price hasn't budged.

"Hopefully the price will go down for a new machine one day, though it's been about a year now and the price hasn't budged"

Try the Scratch & Dent store.