Hey! Club Friends and all our Relatives, I wrote to Kitchen Aid, to ask them why they didn't use Stainless Steel for their Ensemble Electric and Gas Dryers, as well as on at least their "TOL" regular gas and Electric Dryers, of at least the Superba Models. Below is my info to them and their replies back to me.

Peace and Happy Kitchen Aid Laundrying, Steve
Sacto Teddy Bear...

"My Inquiry"

I would like to know why your Ensemble Gas and Electric Dryers don't have a Stainless Steel Drum Interior, like their similar Whirlpool Duet's and Kenmore HE's have, besides why don't you have Stainless Steel Drum Interiors in at least your "Top-Line" regular Gas and Electric Dryers?

"Kitchen Aid Reply"

Most KitchenAid dryers feature a very durable PowderKote drum and inner door. Fine, white polyester powder is electrostatically applied to the interior surfaces of the drum and the dryer door. After application, the finish is baked at a high temperature to fuse the PowderKote finish to the steel and provide a tough, durable, long-lasting finish that resists snagging. White finish brightens the interior, provides clean appearance and carries a 10-year parts warranty if it rusts through due to defects in materials or workmanship.

Unfortunately, we are unable to give you an exact reason as to why our Engineers have choose to continue using the PowderKote finish instead having a Stainless Steel drum. We apologize for any inconveniences this may have caused.

We sincerely appreciate your interest in KitchenAid appliances. Please let us know how we can assist you further.

"My Inquiry"

Thank you for you quick reply back to me. I've realized another issue about the reason, for my asking about why you don't use Stainless Steel for the Interiors of the Dryer Drums. What are people supposed to do, because of the Bluing Stain from "Blue-Jeans" and "Black-Jeans" that gets on the "White-Powder" Coated Interiors? I've had several Kenmore and Maytag Washers and Dryers {I know, somewhat bad news} through the years and this is going to actually be my first attempt at looking into buying a Kitchen Aid Brand of Washer and Dryer and I'm still concerned not only for myself, but others that have this issue to deal with. What can we all do about that, to either keep the Stain from appearing and/or how to control it or get rid of it, when it does appear, without causing any kind of Damage to the "White-Powder-Coat" of the Drum Interior? This would certainly be an Issue that I would like to see and hear that would be thought of, for my reason of concern, as to looking into creating at least on the more "Top-of-Line" Dryers, of not only the Ensemble's but maybe even the Superba's as well, and naturally also in both the Electric and Gas Models and the availability being on all Colors of the Cabinets as well. Thank you so very much for you valuable time and help. I hope to hear from someone real soon, with some "Feed-Back" about this matter and what will be done about it, besides of any info for those of us who do have a Dryer with the White "Powder-Coating" Finish on the Drum Interiors.

"Kitchen Aid Reply"

In regards to dye stains inside your dryer drum, this is usually caused by unstable dyes in clothing, usually jeans as you stated. However, this will not discolor or transfer to other clothing.

To remove any dye transfer from the dryer drum, we recommend that you scrub the interior of the drum with a detergent and water paste. Once the unit is cleaned out, put a few damp old rags in the unit, and run the dryer for several minutes. Then verify the rags have no stain transferred on them, the stain, if any is remaining, is then "baked" into the surface of the drum and bulkhead due to the high temperatures of the dryer in operation. We are hopeful that you find this information helpful.

KitchenAid does have plans to introduce a Pro Line washer and dryer in the first quarter of 2006. This dryer, model numbers KHGV01RSS (gas), and KEHV01RSS (electric), will offer a Stainless Steel drum. However, please be aware that because this product has not yet been released for production, this is merely an estimated timeframe, and is subject to change at any time.

We have attached a preliminary spec sheet for our Pro Line laundry pair for your review.

Thank you once again for contacting KitchenAid. Please let us know if you have any further questions.

"Extra Info From Me"

I wasn't sure if these Web-Site Addresses would come up as a Link, so I chose to leave the Addresses included in the contents as well, just in case.

http://www.kitchenaid.com/catalog/shopping_options.jsp
http://forum.kitchenaid.com

I'm not sure which of these are supposed to be the Pro-Line Site. I tried to go to the top one, but it didn't have any info. I haven't tried the other Site below the first one as of yet, maybe there is some info there about the new Pro-Line Machines.

Good for you in trying to infuse sense into "the man"

In most cases, stainless steel dryer drums are a crock. Very rare is the dryer where the drum dies before something in the electrical/mechanical area; old Speed Queens are a good example, and with WP's 10 year warranty, the drum is pretty well protected. Stainless steel is incredibly expensive now and unless a thick enough grade is used, especially in the right areas that take wear, the drum can create more problems than the powder-coat finish on steel. The stainless steel drum in the dryer that matches the older Fridgemore front load load washer is not even all stainless steel. The front of the drum that rides on the slides over the door is plain steel and it can rust and leave rust stains where the fine particles somes times fall on the clothing so that is a place where good stainless steel would be a real plus, but because it is not seen, it is not used. There is no documentation of the color transfer in a stained drum and since most of the stainless steel dryer drums have plastic baffles, those can stain from dye transfer just as easily. No offense meant. I was just trying to make this fast and to the point. Please consider my apologies offered if I have offended.

The only problem i have encountered with the powder coated drum is that after years of use the powder wears down to the bare metal underneath. Mine is at that stage now, though the metal underneath has not rusted out.

OK stainless steel is expensive.
Life is expensive.
Nice things are expensive.
Quality costs too.

How often do drums change designs?

Offer a rebate for SS parts turned-in that are destined for the Krusher.

Then, the companies can wash and reuse as is, sell as a used part or salvage the material.

Louis, arent most Euro machines built with recycling in mind and have recyling-coded parts?

Steve,

Yes, modern European washers have recycling coded parts. I guess it's part of the laws of the European Community, but I'm not sure. I think AEG was the first, but also I'm not sure about that. Not sure about much today I guess. LOL

Louis

When the paint wears away in WP-made dryers, I buy the white two part epoxy paint that they sell near the bathroom sinks at HD. Clean the drum & wipe down with the non-oily formula of fingernail polish remover. Mix the paint and apply a coat. Start at the back first and wear something plastic over your hair unless you are going after a semi-frosted look. Store the paint until you can do the second coat. I put it in the refrigerator with Sarah Ann wrap then allow it to warm before applying the second coat. It takes a lot of tumbling to wear this away. I apply an extra coat on the blukhead areas like the part that bumps out just before the grill where the heat comes in. Since this paint does not dry or cure until the two parts are mixed, you can save some to do a touch-up years later in the heavy wear areas. Don't get the paint on the felt seal area or the drum will be glued to the bulkhead.

This painting is not realy necessary if you just throw a load in and dry it immediately; rust does not form.

in a dryer, I look for:


Low-heat opitons
Extended cool-downs
Stainless steel drums.

In imy search for informaiton, I accidentally found that GE has a belt switch that turns off the motor and the heat should the belt pop.

*SOLD* I went and got one, since I needed a dryer.

I grew up with Maytags and Sears. Never GE W&D.
But my first purchased W&D were GE and they were great!

Hey! Steve, I'm not sure if both have this, but I do know when I bought my 1992 Lady-K Mechanical Washer and Dryer, that Dryer had the Sensor to turn off both the Heat and Motor, if the Belt were to break. I would certainly think and assume that the WP would have done this at the same time as well. I'm also not sure if 1992 was in fact the first year of doing this, but I would think that all Dryers would have that. It might not be a bad idea if the "Still" Belt-Drive Washers had that as well, mainly so the Motor wouldn't just keep running unnecessary after the Belt were to break.

Peace and Happy Holiday Cheer, Steve
SactoTeddyBear...

Good to know. TKS.

Kenmore and Whirlpool 27" front servicable dryers have a belt switch that interrupts power to the motor should the belt break. The arm of the idler pulley hits a switch, similar to a lid/door switch. 29" dryers do not have this because they have a removable idler pulley bracket.

IIRC not even many or any commercial/laundromat dryers have SS drums. With the cost of SS going through the roof, we are probably going to see less and less of it on all but high end laundry appliances like Miele. Case in point almost all the new front loaders sold in the United States for domestic use except Miele and SQ have plastic outer tubs. Used to be SS or enamelled steel, but now just plastic. This coincides with drum warranties that have pretty much vanished. Time was there would be a lifetime warranty on both outer and inner front loader drums, again most modern front loaders sold today have cut that back drastically.

The above not withstanding, considering the average amount of time most Americans hold onto a washer/dryer, the drums will probably out last use. Things might be different if as in Europe major appliances were required to be broken down and recycled.

Launderess

My F&P GWL08 and IWL12 both have stainless wash baskets. Well, mostly. The bottom is plastic, I suppose for ease in molding the airdome that is part-and-parcel of the both the "transmission" mechanism and for auto water level detection. There's also a plastic liquid-filled balance ring around the top. So only the basket sidewall is stainless steel. The 1999 DE04 dryer drum is white enamel or powdercoat or whatever. Never had any trouble in the five years I used it, and no evidence of any problems now since it went to live with my grandmother.

My IWL12 topload dryer has a stainless drum as well, except for the left end of the cylinder (which is mounted transversely in the cabinet) where the airflow grille and lint bucket are located. I can't say how high-grade SS it may be, but it doesn't appear to have suffered any wear beyond the reasonable fine scratches from rivets and buttons on jeans.

IMHO

Most commercial dryers DO NOT have painted drums.
They are galvanized (zinc coated).

IIRC- SQ domestics use galvanized, too.


FINE don't give us SS in the dryer, but at least go back to BLACK porcelain like older Maytags or GE! These don't turn blue or green or lose their coating; visibly anyway.

Don't most cities these days have recycling programs or at the very least recycling areas at the landfills if you take items there yourself to dispose of. Our landfill does, any major appliances you bring in get dropped off in a special area, batteries and chemicals in another and your green garbage bag household waste in another. If they don't they're losing money because they can then resell them to a recycler rather than covering them with dirt.

Don't think NYC has such a thing, but do know if one leaves appliances on the curb, without doubt scavengers in beat up vans drive up and rip out copper, metal and other stuff. Have only seen them at fridges and air conditioners, never taking apart a washing machine or dryer though.

L.

NYC is such a big place (anonymity guaranteed) MANY (dare I say most? )rummage through the "dispose of" piles found in front of aparmtnet buildings.

I found a MINT Electrolux (USA)vacuum. Plainly visible. Reason tossed? VERY long human hair clogging hose.

Cut a wire hanger with tool, stick in hose(OUCH) and voila. Perfect. Disinfected it deodorized it, left in extreme cold in garage for three days to kill any potential beasties..and perfection.

That was a real fumb duck who tossed it.

When Maytag came out with the HOH dryer design, the Highlander models had a galvanized drum while the upper models had a porcelain drum. After years of use, my Aunt's Highlander dryer drum had to be recoated. That's what she told me. I don't know with what or how, but she had it done and kept on dryin' clothes.

Does hot zinc have a smell?

I am wondering if warm-air heat is pushed through galvanized rigid ducts. (This type of home heating is rare here).

If it is/does it may explain that certain pleasant, yet faint, smell I perceve in homes with heating of this type.

Hey Sacto!

I am surprised that you were able to get any answer at all from KA! I think they have a really good product but when it comes to answering questions, they don't seem to be that great.

If you ever happen to communicate with them again about their washing machine, you might ask whey they don't incorporate the wash delay feature. I find it really curious. Even the bottom of the line Whirlpool front loader has wash delay, but they don't bother to put it on their Kitchenaid fl washer? I know KA does have the rinse hold function, but I don't really think that fills the need.

So, I wonder if the Pro Line washer & dryer the KitchenAid rep was referencing is the elusive $7000 pair?

I doubt that zinc heated to room heating temperatures will have any odor, since virtually no zinc atoms will be liberated.

There is a condition known as "zinc fever" that is known to welders. That's because galvanized coatings, heated to welding temperatures, causes zinc atoms to be liberated. If inhaled this can cause one heck of a headache, or so I've read. Excessive fumes can also cause lasting neurological problems. This is why most items that need both welding and galvanizing are welded first, and then galvanized.

Welding temps are above about 1300 degrees F. A home furnace might heat its ducting to about 200F. Nowhere near the "danger zone".

As for the aroma you detect in forced air furnace heated homes... some of it may be dust that is burnt by the heat exchanger. Usually this happens at startup in the fall, when dust that has settled back into the system through the air vents is heated. It goes away after the first run. If it continues, the furnace filter may be leaky, clogged, or too coarse. I prefer to use 3M Filtrete electrostatic pleated filters - while not HEPA, these can actually clean the air of dust, pollen, even some cooking odors.

Stainless steel is not only more expensive than plain steel, but it's also harder to work. My Neptune dryer also has that bluing caused by new jeans... for me it's not a problem, although I'd prefer it if mfg's went back to good old porcelainized surfaces instead of this new fangled plastic paint.

I agree that a stainless drum looks nicer than a painted one... but... functionally I don't think it makes much difference.

TYVM

:-)

Hey! Rich, et-al, I just finally got a chance to write to Kitchen Aid, to inquire to them about why they don't have the Delay Start setting on their Ensemble Front-Load Washers, when almost all of the other Brands/Models, even "BOL" Models seem to have it on them.

I will certainly next week, or whenever I get some kind of Reply let everyone know what I find out.

Peace, Holiday Greetings and Cheer, Steve
SactoTeddyBear...

I finally got a chance to write back to Kitchen Aid, to ask them about why they hadn't included the Delay Wash feature. I just got this Reply back from them on Tuesday, December 27th.

{My Inquiry}

I would like to know why you don't incorporate the wash delay feature. I find it really curious, that even the bottom of the line Whirlpool Front Loader has Wash Delay, but they don't bother to put it on their Kitchen Aid Front-Load Washer? I know Kitchen Aid does have the Rinse/Hold feature, but I would also like to see the Delay Start feature added as well.

{Kitchen Aid Replies}

Kitchen Aid manufactures all of our products based on customer feedback. When marketing polled our Kitchen Aid customers, the Delay Wash feature was a feature that the majority said that they would not find useful, therefore, it was not added into the design.

At this time, there are no plans to add this feature on the Ensemble washer. However, because we create products based on demand and the feedback that we receive from customers, we continue to value feedback like yours. I will happily forward your request to our engineering and marketing departments for review, and perhaps in the future we will offer this feature.

We do appreciate you taking the time to provide us with your comments and suggestions on our products, and thank you for your interest in Kitchen Aid appliances.

Peace and Happy Holiday Greetings and Cheer, Steve
SactoTeddyBear...