Hey guys,

two days ago, I offered a new dishwasher, because my 6 year old AEG is a kind of broken.
Itīs a new Bosch SGI 58 M05EU which was voted best by a german costumer magazine.
On the dishwasher are the common programmes and it has the GlassProtect function.
The programmes are:
Auto 55°-65°
Pots&Pans 70°
Quick 45°
ECO 50°
and a prerinsecycle
All programmes except Quick 45° can be shortened with the VarioSpeed option from 20% up to 50%.

The dishwasher will be delivered on monday or tuesday, but on tuesday my parents and me arenīat home, so we might get it wednesday.
Iīm so excited and happy getting a new dishwasher after all the mess my old AEG left on the dishes.


The link below is the one from the ebay-offer.

More pictures will follow!

Ich habe auch Bosch zu Hause. Sechs Jahre Dienst in meiner Kueche ohne Schwierigkeiten. Und sehr ruhig.

The same as mine ;-)

Lavamat.

What is the GlassProtect function, i have never heard of it here in the US. I have a Bosch also and love it.

Mike

That looks EXACTLY like the Kenmore Elite D/W made by Bosch! LOL

Model 16303

Hehe,

the GlassProtect function mixxes calcareous with decalcified water to get the optimal water hardness for washing glasses.
If the water is too soft, glasses get blind (as we say in German).

This is the Kenmore Elite by Bosch. It's a great dishwasher. And yes it sure does look an awful lot like Lavamat's new one. But why do they get all the cool stuff? Glass Protect? That sounds cool as some of my Vintage crystal has become clouded or etched. I wonder if this function would protect from that?

Yeah, they really do look alike. But I think the European baskets are different to the US ones. Also, typical EU dishwashers are about two inches less in hight.

GlassProtect, according to Bosch Europe, is a combination of AquaMix, heat exchanger, AquaVario and VarioFlex baskets.

AquaMix, as explained, will mix softened and non-softened water; the heat exchanger cools the hot water inside the DW at the end of the main wash and uses the stored heat to pre-warm the rinse water; AquaVario regulates the spray pressure according to soil level (so less soiled glasses will be washed more gently) and the upper and lower VarioFlex baskets are supposed to hold an extra number of glasses - although I don't really think so.

Nino, I think you'll really like this dishwasher. We have a similar one by Siemens (with even more features) and I love it - it's just great and much better than the AEG it repleaced.

Alex

Has increasingly become a selling point in Europe because detergents are much more aggressive today than previously.
Our water in Europe is, generally speaking, very hard. Hard enough that machines have built in water softeners. The combination of very soft (which means highly aggressive) water and very very aggressive detergents has caused 'glass corrosion' (anal retentives, let's not and say we didn't, ok?) to become visible after only a few washings.
US dishwashers don't soften their own water and US detergents, compared to what we have in Europe, are castrated to the point of near uselessness. So glass corrosion isn't a big problem in the US.
There are, however, US detergents formulated with protective agents and if you have very soft water and valuable glasses, it is well worth it to use them.
Of course, running a full load, not pre-rinsing and not over-dosing the detergent will help here, too. I think Laundress and several others have mentioned those three factors over the years.

Does extremely hard water have some influence over the European penchant for extremely high wash tempertures both in the DW and clothes washer?

Does this also influence extremely high spin speeds in washers across the pond, perhaps to avoid mineral build? Or is this mostly the result of the electrical system and the desire to have a plug-and-play (relatively low wattage) dryer that plugs into any ordinary 220v 50hz socket?

Similarly reltivley smaller tub/cylinder/drum dimesions necessitate greter speeds to achive a similar g-force /extraction ability.

High Wash Temperatures:

Hold over from when "boil washing" was pretty much the only way to get laundry done. Either in a copper or early "heated" washing machines.

High water temps did several things: Aided soil removal without lots of rubbing and scrubbing, sanitized laundry and killed body vermin (lice, fleas and such), and when combined with perborate bleaches or "Persil" would whiten laundry without the need for chlorine bleach (eau de Javel).

High Spin Speeds:

While automatic washing machines are common in Europe/UK, dryers were not, even today. For reasons of ecomomics down to space. Thus it is not uncommon to find washing done in an automatic washing machine, but hung to dry on lines, racks, balconies,attics, airing cupboards and even over the furniture. High spin speeds remove much water so laundry dries faster, even without a clothes dryer.

The built in WS systems on European washing machines, dishwashers and such mainly protects the internal heaters from scale and lime build up, which can happen fairly quickly in some areas where the water is hard enough to chip teeth.


American Automatic Dishwasher Detergents:

Let me break this down for you like a fraction,Pathera. We on this side of the pond are NOT living in some third world country. US dishwasher detergents are not by any means "castrated", and work quite well thank you very much.

L.

I meant no offense. Living between two cultures, I naturally have the opportunity to compare.
One tablet German Sunil in my mother's BOL Amana, on Quickwash and everything comes out clean and sparkling. No stuck on egg yolks, no fine spray of potatoes on the glasses, no pasta or cheese stuck to fork tines, no tomato colored plastic containers.
The maximum amount of Electrosol, the highest level cleaning program with automatic sensors, temp. boost, etc, et al in my friend's TOL GE (a good dishwasher by anyone's standard) and, if you haven't pre-washed, much less pre-rinsed, you will have a few dirty dishes with now baked on residue at the end of the program.
Sorry, but at least in this area, 30%+ phosphates together with enormously more enzymes and far more effective bleaches really do make a difference. And that is why I refer to US detergents as castrated. Compared to what is sold in Europe, they are.
Ironically, this all goes back to the original environmental safety concerns of the 1970's. Both cultures approached the eutrophication problem from different angles. Europe, at first, ignored the problem until it could no longer be avoided. Then, sewage treatment facilities were built which could handle phosphates. The US forbade or minimized them. Americans, in those days, were far ahead of Europe in such things and already had enormous investments in the infrastructure. People also believed that it would be possible to easily replace the phosphates with effective but environmentally safe alternatives.
This has proved, sadly, to be a pipe-dream.
It is hard not to compare things and I get a lot of shit from US friends and family who have not traveled or lived abroad for it. I don't know what to do. Shut my mouth and see a great nation continue to slip behind Europe in so many ways?
If it helps to expunge my sins and transgressions, the happiest six months of my education were spent student-teaching in the Bronx...

Sunil is a german laundry detergent, not a detergent to wash dishes.

The machine is delivered on Thursday between 9 am and 2 o clock

I meant Somat but was packing a Christmas present of Sunil...my teeny-tiny mind is easily distracted.

Somat 1 Tabs are the best in my opinion. I compared it to the Somat powder and in my opinion the powder cleans not so good but the Tabs do. I only use the Somat 1. Can't understand why people use Somat 3,5 or 7. It is proven that salt and rinse aid in combination with a tab clean better then the 3/5/7-in-one products. But Germans seem to be lazy ;-)

Marketing hype...

Nino,

Congratulations on the new dishwasher! That's a very nice one! If I ever need a new one a Bosch is a serious option. But right now my AEG is still chugging along very nicely.

I agree that the Somat tabs are great, they aren't sold in the Netherlands, but the German border is not that far away. But a while ago Dreft tabs were introduced in the Netherlands and because of all the promotions I got some for a pretty bargain. I must say I really like them. I too am not a fan of all in one tabs, I still use salt and rinse agent. They have classic powder tabs, I think I will stick with them. At least for a while ofcourse...

Hi guys,

the dishwasher arrived on Thursday at 12 o clock.
It was a bit complicated to built the dishwasher in, but now itīs on itīs place. As our kitchen worksurface is extrahigh, it had to be lifted up with some wood.
On Friday I finally did the settings, like hardness of water, dose oh rinseaid, etc...
Some minutes later I run the first load without dishes to clean the "washtub".
The dishwasher is very quiet, and I like the noises it does.
It cleans very well and the mainwash is much longer than the ones on the AEG.
Therefore it cleans much better, it even cleans hard soiled parts perfectly.
Until now, I didnīt use the VarioSpeed option, but `ll try it tomorrow.
Picīs will follow as soon as Iīm alone at home :)

Louis, I only can recommend that dishwasher to you.

...are primarily there to get as much water out of the clothes as possible, due to our extremely changeable weather.

You can safely say, that from October onwards, outdoor-dried laundry requires finishing off in the drier.

As Launderess says, it was the norm to use kitchen pulleys, clothes horses and even drape the laundry over the central-heating radiators (water-filled, heated by gas or oil-fired boiler).

These days, tumble driers are widely available, but for least drier-use expenditure, it is recommended to spin the clothes at a fast speed.

My grandparents visited my grandmother's brother's family in California, in the early 1970s. My gran had some clothes in the US washer, and when they were spun they were still soaking wet! But that didn't matter, as the Santa Ana winds dried things very quickly indeed - except one side was white, and the other was filthy brown, due to the desert dust!

I have tried some of these 'glass protection' devices that hang in the machine and also detergents that claim to have it built in and have come to the conclusion, that in my personal experience, they are ineffective. I have a couple of everyday wine glasses which now have quite pretty etched designs on them courtesy of the DW and I bought highballs that were already frosted so it takes care of that problem on a day to day basis. I have stopped putting good glassware in the DW and prefer to wash it by hand, takes a bit longer, but I feel it is worth the tiny sacrifice.

Several years ago when I was visiting my grandfather, I was cleaning his kitchen sink with 'Domestos' bleach. The cloth still had bleach on it when I wiped the inside door glass of his Hoover 'EcoLogic' 1300.

As soon as it dried, I noticed that the door glass which was previously perfectly clear, seemed to have become clouded - the same cloudiness that affects drinking glasses in a dishwasher.

It could not be cleaned off, so my conclusion at the time was that chlorine bleach knocks seven bells out of glassware.

I also gather that household chlorine bleaches also employ a strongly alkaline detergent to assist the bleaching action; namely sodium hydroxide.

So it might be the alkaline detergents that mostly affect glass (this would tally with the corrosive sodium metasilicate used in the older dishwasher detergents). Chlorine bleach might just have an additional effect.

Modern dishwasher detergents are supposed to employ a gentler sodium disilicate formulation.