Archived Messages From Applianceville at www.classicappliances.com
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Post# 14000-2/19/2002-10:54 ||| scott55405 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: Someday My Rinse Will Come.............................. (On a white steed gallops a new timer!!)
MESSAGE: What a wonderful machine, Jimmy! Thank you for sharing your pictures. I had only ever seen this model in ads, and then I think it was mainly an illustration, not the actual machine. The double door design did not dawn on me at the time. I hope soon you will have it home and operating flawlessly!
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Post# 14001-2/19/2002-11:36 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Miele & Staber??)
MESSAGE: When Brideshead was dubbed in German they translated "physical attraction" with "körperliche Anziehungskraft". It sounded like it had more to do with something technical than with love.
If we ever meet, let me pronounce it, only then you will understand it to the full.
Spitzenschleudertouren...Spitzenschleudertouren...Spitzen......
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Post# 14002-2/19/2002-11:40 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Defending the nest (honeycomb))
MESSAGE: I bet those killer bees chasing you could get employment in a Miele factory, would make the new drums less expensive!!
Louis
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Post# 14003-2/19/2002-11:46 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Miele & Staber??)
MESSAGE: You're right, the holes are placed a little deeper than the honey combs. I haven't seen one working yet, would love to see what the effect of this drum is.
Louis
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Post# 14004-2/19/2002-11:49 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: RE: Appliance Convention 2002 (YAY)
MESSAGE: I think it would be nice to mention here who are going to be there.
Louis
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Post# 14005-2/19/2002-12:06 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: RE: Appliance Convention 2002 (Agenda Suggestion)
MESSAGE: Thanks, it's worth all the trouble. BTW, who needs games with so many washers around, games are really distracting LOL.
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Post# 14006-2/19/2002-12:13 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (power factor)
MESSAGE: Chris,
Well, if you're on solar power then you face many of the same problems the power utilities face, albeit on a much smaller scale. And yes, from the web surfing I've done on the subject, it looks like DC powered appliances - like refrigerators, tv's, radios, etc, are quite popular with the solar-powered community. If I were on solar power I'd be looking at DC versions of as many things as possible. Doesn't make much sense to suffer a conversion loss from DC to AC and then back to DC again inside the electronic device or appliance.
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Post# 14007-2/19/2002-12:14 ||| golittlesport (California)
SUBJECT: RE: The Oldest Westy I've Ever Seen (wow!)
MESSAGE: Hi Jimmy
That is a beautiful Westy! A very interesting design, too.
It looks like the water inlet goes through the detergent shute, like a mixing dispenser. Does it? The control knobs are a curiousity to me also. There seems to be too many settings on the left one to be temperature or water level. Can you possible take some close-up pictures of the control dials to share?
What a gem! Two doors, two motors, a detergent dispenser, pre-wash cycle...wow. It reminds me in a way of the first GE washer...many cool things were dropped from it by the time the second model came around.
I remember seeing this model Westy in operation when I was four years old. A neighbor of our family was a barber and cut hair in his basement afterhours. My dad would bring my brothers and myself there with him and we'd all get haircuts. This family had several washers in their basement (early collectors?)and one time the Westy was going...outer door open so you could see the action. I was mesmerized by it...we had a Laundromat at the time and this one was so different!
(They also had a very old wringer washer that the wringer was on whenever the washer was on. No on/off switch, the lady of the house showed me how she just plugged it in or out to start and stop the whole mechanism.)
Thanks for sharing pictures of your wonderful "catch"!!!
Rich
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Post# 14008-2/19/2002-12:16 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: RE: The Oldest Westy I've Ever Seen (The Link)
MESSAGE: Thanks for the pictures, it looks more like a triple door washer with the service door at the bottom. What's the story behind the 2 motors?
Louis
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Post# 14009-2/19/2002-12:19 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Miele & Staber??)
MESSAGE: Well as you may know, many pungent slang words in English are borrowed directly from modern German. "Spit" for example. So it is always slightly amusing, to me at least, to see the word used in a more formal context in a German sentence.
And thanks for that Miele link. I was able to listen to the audio on the "TV Spot" link, and hear the official Miele pronunciation of "Miele". Unfortunately I still mentally hear the word mispronounced as "Meelee" in my head when I read it, but I suppose I can train myself to hear it as "Meeluh" in time...
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Post# 14010-2/19/2002-12:33 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Miele & Staber??)
MESSAGE: Miele is quite difficult for Americans to pronounce, I think there was even a thread on the pronunciation at THS.
I don't know the german word "Spit".
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Post# 14011-2/19/2002-12:45 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: Applianceville site navigation (Spelling)
MESSAGE: Hi Kathy,
Glad you too have to "treb(b)le" up. I did see your worst spelling award idea, and wondered whether I was a strong contender. Honestly, I can spell the word "the", but I cant type.
I re-read your profile, I had missed that bit before. I love the idea of lots of granny suites. As well as cooking, refrigeration and laundry, would not each be incomplete without vintage TV, radio, and those wonderful old electric fires that you sometimes see.
Oh, some Brits do call it a WC, but very few. Most say loo or the T word, older ones say lav or lavatory - took me ages to realise that on US websites and home shows the lav referred to a wash basin. Me, well I am altogether far more course, and to my mother and grandmother's dismay, insist on calling it the bog, is that word used your side of the pond. My favourite euphemism is teh US use of rest room - I can just imagine someone as course as I saying 'I'm dying for a rest' or 'if I dont have a rest soon, I'm going to....' I'm being naughty now, I'll stop.
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Post# 14012-2/19/2002-12:46 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Miele & Staber??)
MESSAGE: I guess there's not a German word "Spit", but there's a German word "Spitzen", right? Help me out here please! LOL!
I'd try to come up with other examples - there was a great BBC series called "The Story of English" where they traced all the different linquistic influences on English, including of course German. Many new words apparently came up in America in the 18th and 19th centuries when German speaking immigrants settled here. Spit was *probably* one of them, coming from the German word for rain. I have even heard some rural folk refer to rain as "spit".
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Post# 14013-2/19/2002-12:50 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Miele & Staber??)
MESSAGE: Louis,
I love Kathy's version, Miely, which is how I pronounce it, could also be spelt - mealy.
My pronunciation is probably incorrect, but my favourite mispronunciation was Me-yell.
Oh well, however one says it, they make great products.
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Post# 14014-2/19/2002-12:52 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: The Oldest Westy I've Ever Seen (Thanks)
MESSAGE: Jimmy, Uni
Thanks for taking and posting these pics of the Westy. It is beautiful, I love the shaping on the outer door. All the best in your restoration.
I have loved hearing about the Westy's tub and wash action.
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Post# 14015-2/19/2002-12:53 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: Applianceville site navigation (Spelling)
MESSAGE: I think we spent a whole hour in my Spanish class going over the correct terms for "restroom" in Spanish/Central&South America (excluding Brazil). My favorite Spanish term for it is "Inodoro", because it conveys so much irony. Oh, and before I took any Spanish lessons I traveled by backpack in Mexico and Guatemala, amusing the native with my fractured Franish (I had some high school French and so I pronounced my book-learned Spanish with a bizarre sort of French/American accent), and where I committed the cardinal sin of asking two women behind the counter at a cafe if they had any eggs. They giggled, of course, but eventually I got my huevos rancheros without them having to disrobe.
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Post# 14016-2/19/2002-12:54 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Miele & Staber??)
MESSAGE: Me-yell would be honey in Spanish.
I guess some people think of their Miele as a real honey.
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Post# 14017-2/19/2002-12:58 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (translation site)
MESSAGE: Suds,
From foreignword.com, I have found 'spitz' meaning pointed, and 'spitzen' meaning to sharpen. To Rain is 'regen'.
Hope this helps
LINK: http://www.foreignword.com
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Post# 14018-2/19/2002-13:08 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Miele & Staber??)
MESSAGE: That's it!! The honey comb drum was originally designed for the Spanish market!!!
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Post# 14019-2/19/2002-13:53 ||| Skyblew (Saint Paul, MN)
SUBJECT: 1920's (?) Estate gas range in St. Paul
MESSAGE: Hi!
We inherited a vintage 1920's (we think) Estate gas range and oven from the former owners of our house, along with a similar era GE monitor top refrigerator. We have fallen in love with the range and although it is in good shape, it needs some work. I was wondering if anyone knows of any sources/afficianados in the Twin Cities (Minneapolis/St. Paul), Minnesota area that I might contact?
I would also be interested in any info anyone might have on the Estate brand. Some internet research I've done leads me to believe that it was originally made by RCA, who eventually sold the Estate line to Whirlpool in the 1950's (??).
I will try to put up a good photo to look at, in the meantime, all I have is this one:
http://www.geocities.com/nategehl/house/DCP_1248.JPG
You can see the refrigerator better than the stove, but the stove has four burners with an attached range cover and a drawer below the range top on the left. Above the range is a little compartment with a toggle type handle that I was told was used to hold matches. It has one oven on top and a broiler below it on the right and the legs are very similar to the refrigerator's, though they are longer.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Cari
LINK: http://www.geocities.com/nategehl/house/DCP_1248.JPG
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Post# 14020-2/19/2002-14:12 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (translation site)
MESSAGE: Yikes! Well I'm glad that I admitted up front that I don't undertand much German!
Could "spit" come from Yiddish?
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Post# 14021-2/19/2002-14:24 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: 1920's (?) Estate gas range in St. Paul
MESSAGE: Nice fridge, and the stove looks lovely too.
I was doing some web surfing on old stoves (Wedgewood/O'Keefe&Merritt) and there are a number of firms that restore old ones. You might have to wind up shipping the stove out for restoration, but I'd use google to search for old gas stove restoration places. There is a good one in the LA California area... they do their own porcelain refinishing, etc.
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Post# 14022-2/19/2002-14:26 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (translation site)
MESSAGE: Yes, I found an online german-english dictionary which may help prevent further mis-definitions...
"To spit" is variously listed as zischen, spucken, speien, fauchen, ausspucken, gespeien, etc...
LINK: http://dict.leo.org/?search=spit&searchLoc=0&relink=on&deStem=standard&lang=en
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Post# 14023-2/19/2002-14:33 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (translation site)
MESSAGE: And ultimately "to spit" comes from middle english "spitten", which in turn came from old english "spittan", which is thought to be originally an "imitative" source (onamatapoetic); that is, the word "spit" sort of sounds like the act of spitting.
Now I just have to decipher Schleuderspitzentouren.
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Post# 14024-2/19/2002-15:24 ||| Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: 1920's (?) Estate gas range in St. Paul
MESSAGE: Hi Skyblew. Wow beautiful Stove and Refrigerator you have there. I live just on the other side of the Mississippi River from you here in Minneapolis. There are quite a few places to go appliance hunting here in the Twin Cities metro, but it depends what you need for the Stove. When you said your asking for sources/afficianados, what exactly are you looking for? I as well as three other appliance collectors I know locally are collectors of vintage washing machines. I'm sure we have some vintage stove/range collectors too, I know of at least on in Inver Grove Heights.
There are a few web sites devoted to specifically to old stoves such as at the following link, our site does cover all major appliances but our knowledge is much more washing machine, dryer and dishwasher focused...
LINK: http://www.antiquestoves.com/
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Post# 14025-2/19/2002-15:30 ||| Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: Speaking of Ranges
MESSAGE: Look at this beautiful Hotpoint Range, I didn't realize they made them in stainless so early.
LINK: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1075337082
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Post# 14026-2/19/2002-15:42 ||| HQOTS (Florida)
SUBJECT: RE: Appliance Convention 2002 (Who's going)
MESSAGE: Unimatic1140 - Robert
DADoES - Glen
Filterflo - Jimmy
Petski - Peter S
Wringingwet - Philippe
Scottdamit - Scott (and partner)
Tlee618 - Terry
Foraloysius - Louis
JasonL - Jason L
Tcox6912 - Todd (and partner)
Geguy - Pat
Gansky1 - Greg
Golittlesport - Rich M (and partner)
Appnut - Bob
HQOTS - Jason
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Post# 14027-2/19/2002-16:01 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: Speaking of Ranges
MESSAGE: Wow, that is nice. It has only one flaw that I can see... it's not GAS!
:-)
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Post# 14028-2/19/2002-18:02 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (translation site)
MESSAGE: Suds
Germans form compound nouns and verbs by adding words together. I could not find Schleuderspitzentouren in itself, but breaking it down, and using your link gives -
Schleuder - a slingshot or catapult
spitzen - point or leading edge or even lacy
and Touren, in the phrase - auf Touren bringen, means to rev.
So it could be a cutting-edge, revving (water) sling, ie cutting edge spin drier, or a lacy spin drier. Choose what you prefer, though possibly it was chosen as a deliberate double entendre (blimey, we cant speak English without using foreign words).
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Post# 14029-2/19/2002-18:45 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: Applianceville site navigation (duct fires)
MESSAGE: Bri-Nylon drip dry shirts, what a memory, Not that I have ever owned such a thing, but I can remember my father having some, apparently he had worn them in the tropics - truly gross.
I agree about synthetics not keeping well, thats one of teh reasons I like pure cotton. The others are the feel and body of cotton and the fact I can hot wash it. To me a hot wash is imprtant, especially for bedding after the cats have slept on it.
For your fine grit, I can recomend those cotton, rubber backed door mats, available quite cheaply from Screwfix.com. I bought mine, at rather greater cost, from the place that supplied my wood floor. The mats really work well, and best of all, they are washable in the machine.
You have mentioned your Vorwerk before, and I had meant to ask, are these still available? I have not seen any for a long time. They are great vaccums.
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Post# 14030-2/19/2002-18:48 ||| appnut (Temple, TX)
SUBJECT: RE: Someday My Rinse Will Come..............................
MESSAGE: Rinse Charming could be the Snuggle Bear or could be Rinse water so calcified it's Rock Hard!!!! ;-) Either way, you could be spun out so much you'd be left hung out to dry.
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Post# 14031-2/19/2002-18:55 ||| appnut (Temple, TX)
SUBJECT: RE: Recent Finds at the Hispanic Market
MESSAGE: Oh no Ed, does that mean another Texas tradition going by the wayside? Hmmph, turning mama Mrs. Baird into a Bimbo. I thought this several years ago when Bimbo acquired Mrs. Baird's Bakeries. Maybe the next Bimbo should be a Hostess Twinkie.
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Post# 14032-2/19/2002-18:57 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: RE: 1920's (?) Estate gas range in St. Paul (welcome!)
MESSAGE: What a beautiful set of appliances you have! I think you will find the antiquestoves.com site very helpful and they have some wonderful books and restoration guides to help you with valves, porcelain repair, etc. and if you are handy with standard tools and instructions, you shouldn't have a problem. They may be able to help you find some history on the Estate brand as well. Good luck and keep us posted on the progress.
Is your refrigerator in good shape too? They both are very cool in your kitchen and I'll bet get lots of conversations started!
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Post# 14033-2/19/2002-18:59 ||| appnut (Temple, TX)
SUBJECT: RE: Recent Finds at the Hispanic Market
MESSAGE: Rich, I see your strategy is not to let your mind or fingers loaf and take advantage of my isolation from this web site at work or late hours. However, I will NEVER give up my title as King of Puns of Applianceville and Rich & Gary will back me up on this one!!!! As well as ChestermikeUK!!!
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Post# 14034-2/19/2002-19:11 ||| appnut (Temple, TX)
SUBJECT: RE: The Oldest Westy I've Ever Seen
MESSAGE: An incredibly kewl washer jimmy. Love the double doors. Hope those mean you can still waatch wash action without the solid front door closed.
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Post# 14035-2/19/2002-21:10 ||| DADoES (El Campo, TX)
SUBJECT: FilterFlo's collection
MESSAGE: Wow! I just took a look at his profile -- what a grand collection! Looking forward to seeing pics of the rest of it.
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Post# 14036-2/19/2002-21:26 ||| Buickfins59 (north carolina)
SUBJECT: chef mate range hood
MESSAGE: Hi guys looking for a control switch for a 1960 chef mate range hood any help appreciated
thanks
Ron
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Post# 14037-2/19/2002-22:44 ||| washrfreak (Dallas)
SUBJECT: RE: Applianceville site navigation (Spelling)
MESSAGE: Well, women's "rest rooms" do seem to often have a sofa or chair (or so the rumor goes). Seems a funny place to lounge about. Oh, there's another American euphemism - the "lounge".
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Post# 14038-2/19/2002-22:49 ||| scott55405 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: FilterFlo's collection
MESSAGE: Boy I should go in the profiles more often, it's amazing the things you learn! I'd no idea either that Jimmy had such a large and wonderful collection!
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Post# 14039-2/19/2002-22:50 ||| scott55405 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: Applianceville site navigation (Spelling)
MESSAGE: Ed, Dayton's, our one-time premier department store here in Minneapolis, now known as Marshall Field's, had such a Women's lounge for many years. You could see the lounge part from the furniture dept.; it had nice sofas, tables and chairs, and coffee. My grandmother would often meet up with her sisters there when they were downtown and they'd sit and chat and sip coffee.
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Post# 14040-2/19/2002-22:56 ||| washrfreak (Dallas)
SUBJECT: RE: Applianceville site navigation (Spelling)
MESSAGE: And what did the gent's have? Men never get to go to the toilet to "lounge" around. It's just not fair!
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Post# 14041-2/19/2002-23:15 ||| appnut (Temple, TX)
SUBJECT: RE: Applianceville site navigation (Spelling)
MESSAGE: We should at least be able to lounge with a view. But hey, Men's locker rooms are a bit more open and relaxed than women's locker rooms from what I've heard. So there are trade-offs.
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Post# 14042-2/19/2002-23:28 ||| kirk280980 (Lincoln UK)
SUBJECT: RE: Applianceville site navigation (Spelling)
MESSAGE: Reminds me of a time when I was at Cambridge train station, getting ready to travel back home. I was standing on the platform with my pal, and an American guy comes up to us and says, "Hey, guys, don't suppose you'd know where the bathroom is?"
I point the guy in the right direction, and my pal, always the joker, just shouts out, "Don't think you're gonna have time for a bath before the train comes, though!"
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Post# 14043-2/19/2002-23:47 ||| kirk280980 (Lincoln UK)
SUBJECT: RE: Applianceville site navigation (duct fires)
MESSAGE: Geez, wearing Bri-Nylon in the tropics? Must be like wearing cling film!
I like cotton for the same reason as yourself. If it gets dirty, you can really give it some hell in the washer, and it still comes out fine. Because synthetics can't always withstand an intensive wash, it can be harder to get stains out on the first wash.
Think I'll give those door mats a try. The ones I have now do trap the crap, but are too stiff to fit into the washer. I usually take them outside and give them a few whacks to get the grit out.
By the way, Vorwerks are still very much available. Mine is a VK130, the current model, and I'm still amazed at how much it picks up. It dry-cleans carpets too, surprisingly well at that. I've included a link to their website, although it doesn't exactly give tons of information.
LINK: http://www.vorwerk.co.uk
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Post# 14044-2/19/2002-01:36 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (translation site)
MESSAGE: Actually, it's Spitzenschleudertouren, but maybe the order of words doesn't make much difference here. I got the same general meanings from the online german englich dictionary, I came up with spikey flinging rotator thingie :-).
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Post# 14045-2/19/2002-01:38 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: Applianceville site navigation (duct fires)
MESSAGE: I had a nylon drip dry short sleeve shirt my mom got me about 1964. It was just about the most uncomfortable thing to wear.
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Post# 14046-2/20/2002-03:12 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: RE: Applianceville site navigation (Vorwerk German site)
MESSAGE: Here's the link to the German site, they also make a wonderful blender that cooks too.
LINK: http://www.vorwerk.de/
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Post# 14047-2/20/2002-03:14 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (translation site)
MESSAGE: Perhaps we can't do without the human mind yet. Spitzenschleudertouren means Topspinrevolutions.
Louis
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Post# 14048-2/20/2002-08:52 ||| cycla-fabric (New Jersey)
SUBJECT: Eagerbeaver - Kenmore Set
MESSAGE: Eagerbeaver, what great finds those Kenmores are! I love that classic style and those rounded curves, Beautiful, enjoy them
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Post# 14049-2/20/2002-09:42 ||| Jetcone (Boston.MA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (thanks Jetcone!)
MESSAGE: Chris send me you real address and I will go copy those patents for you and send them off.
Jetcone
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Post# 14050-2/20/2002-09:52 ||| Jetcone (Boston.MA)
SUBJECT: RE: Someday My Rinse Will Come.............................. (Prototype????)
MESSAGE: Hey Jimmy:
You may have a prototype on your hands. I have to go back and check the patents for Chris in OZ and I do remember a machine with two motors but I never thought they put that into production!!!!!
Incredible find for 2002!!!
Jetcone
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Post# 14051-2/20/2002-10:06 ||| Jetcone (Boston.MA)
SUBJECT: RE: The Oldest Westy I've Ever Seen (Jimmy Cork Gasket-TIP)
MESSAGE: Jimmy:
John LeFever tells me those machines used a cork gasket to seal the outer tub halves. He said when they dry out the machine will leak like a sieve but if you keep runnning it with water for a few days the cork will eventually absorb the water again and swell and seal the outer tub. I wouldn't try to seperate the outer tub till you get that cork seal nice and wet again.
Jon
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Post# 14052-2/20/2002-10:16 ||| Jetcone (Boston.MA)
SUBJECT: Oldest Westy-dirty glass
MESSAGE: Jimmy is that glass on the door just really muddy or is it painted? It looks like you can't see through it?
Jet
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Post# 14053-2/20/2002-11:48 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: Pictures of filters and hook ups
MESSAGE: Recently we were discussing filters of frontloaders, so I took out the filters of my AEG and my Miele and took a few pictures. They are quite different, the AEG is a self cleaning type that doesn't collect lint at all. The openings are too big. The filter of the Miele lets pass most of the lint, but collect some. The openings are much smaller, it's more a screen.
I also took a few pictures of how my washers and dryers are connected to the power. I had the problem that I had only one outlet for a washer. In picture 27 you can see one of the multiple sockets a washer and dryer are plugged in. There is a relay that stops the dryer for the time the washer heater is on. As soon as the water is hot enough and the heater is off again the power to the dryer is on again. I have one for the Miele set and one for the AEG set. Ofcourse I can switch around a little so I can use the Miele washer with the AEG dryer etc.
In picture 28 you can see the switch to which both multiple sockets are connected. In this way I can only use one washer and one dryer at the time and never draw too much power with only one outlet.
Louis
LINK: http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/foraloysius/vwp?.dir=/My+Photo+Album&.dnm=AEG+(left)+and+Miele+filter.jpg&.src=ph&.view=t&.hires=t
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Post# 14054-2/20/2002-13:06 ||| frigemore (Chicago IL area)
SUBJECT: RE: Speaking of Ranges
MESSAGE: Oh my heavens, Stainless and or Chhrome have been around for years. Its only the Gen Xers that think its "something new and unique" It just was not as popular as Pink and teal. Don't be at all suprised when colors become the "latest" things in appliances again.
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Post# 14055-2/20/2002-14:36 ||| joeekaitis (Rialto, California, USA)
SUBJECT: Why didn't Westinghouse hold onto it?
MESSAGE: Marketing experts agree that the biggest mistake AT&T ever made was surrendering the bell symbol to the Baby Bells (the regional phone companies created by the divestiture of the Bell System).
In a similar fashion, why did Westinghouse allow the trademark Laundromat to fall into the public domain? Had they held onto it, their successor companies could have kept the model name alive through the White-Westinghouse days and into the present day, sitting proudly below the current retro-script Frigidaire logo.
Just a thought. :)
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Post# 14056-2/20/2002-16:29 ||| skyblew (Saint Paul, MN)
SUBJECT: RE: 1920's (?) Estate gas range in St. Paul (RE: 1920's (?) Estate gas range in St. Paul)
MESSAGE: Hi -
Thanks for the reply! I did some research on the web for places that do restoration and all of them are way out of our area - like California or the East Coast. We could ship it but I would think it would be horrendously expensive. I bet the restoration price would be expensive too but I would think we could cover that as the stove is in pretty good shape. I might check into some local appliance repair places to see if anyone has any experience with antique appliances. A long shot - but I can always check!
Thanks for the suggestion!
Cari
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Post# 14057-2/20/2002-16:36 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (translation site)
MESSAGE: LOL!
I did find a Babelfish translation site, which came close to my dictionary-derived attempt:
"Pointed centrifuge routes"
I will next attempt to point (Spitzeren?) the Babelfish site towards the german Miele site, for extra entertainment value (Extraunterhaltung Wert)...
LINK: http://babelfish.altavista.com/tr
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Post# 14058-2/20/2002-16:53 ||| skyblew (Saint Paul, MN)
SUBJECT: RE: 1920's (?) Estate gas range in St. Paul (RE: 1920's (?) Estate gas range in St. Paul )
MESSAGE: Hi - thanks for the reply!
I thought I had seen someone in Minneapolis on this list - it must be you. As far as sources or afficianados, it would be anyone locally with any experience in restoring old appliances (old stoves would be even better). We know we need to have the range valves converted to gas valves, as we think they are still the originals, which I believe were designed for propane. The range works great but we have a heat problem - the flame doesn't get quite hot enough to bring water to a good boil. We can fry, saute and heat things up on it but we can't cook pasta, corn, etc. The oven works great aside from the fact that there are no temperatures on the dial. We just bought an oven thermometer and make a little pencil mark on the dial where 350 is.
The other parts of the stove we would like to have fixed would be some porcelain retouching/recoating, replace or restore the oven racks and the broiler. The inside of the broiler is nasty - impossible to clean (I tried) with lots of porcelain missing and some rust.
Unfortunately, neither me or my husband is handy at all with these things so we would really like to find someone we can pay to do it. I think we can afford the restoration costs but shipping it out of state would put us over the top.
If you could put me in touch with the person you know in Inver Grove Heights - maybe they would have some ideas about who could help? Like I said, we can pay for repairs and parts and don't need an absolute expert - just someone who knows something about old appliances (which wouldn't be either me or my husband!). I think it would take us forever and since we don't have a clue, we might screw something up. Neither of us has ever dealt with appliances before - this is our first house and we've always rented before.
Thanks again for your reply!
Cari
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Post# 14059-2/20/2002-17:16 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Miele in plain english )
MESSAGE: Louis,
Please find yourself a thick piece of leather and bite down hard. I am about to post a literal translation of the Miele brochure... (dis)courtesy of Babelfish... My apologies in advance; any amusement is the fault of the translator and not the original ;-) Also, I didn't attempt to translate the whole brochure, as the Babelfish tended to crash periodically and it is a time-consuming process anyway.
"One hundred years, after Miele developed the first washing machine, the time is again ripe for a revolution. Miele presents you the new device generation Softtronic., which does not maintain your laundry as carefully and economically as ever. The secret of this revolution is situated in the singular patented already drum. Here Miele of engineers carried whole work out and from the model of nature to be inspired to be able.
Know-how from nature. Forms, which are established in nature, form also the basis of our technique. The form-completed structure of the six eckes emerges here again and again. Hexagonal molecular structures and the artful honeycomb sample in the bienenstock are the most well-known examples of this perfect structural drawing. Aufbl.hen like a sea-rose. The new already drum is so gentle by the special honeycomb structure to your laundry that even a sea-rose does not have anything against a wash and a schleu-dergang. In the opposite: Also your laundry will again correctly blossom in the new Miele wash full machine!
Loading recognition and dosing recommendation the Topmodelle of the new Miele wash full machines are equipped with a function for the recognition of the loading quantity and display, how you should use much detergent accordingly. That helps you to avoid over and Unterbe charges and to proportion the detergent appropriately and protect the environment.
Start preselection and remainder time display with the start preselection can program you with some Miele wash full machine the start of a program up to 24 hours in advance. Over the remainder time display you experience, how long the current program still lasts. Like that you are more flexible in your timing and can use favorable nachtstromtarife if necessary.
Up to 1800 centrifuge routes Miele wash full machine centrifuges with max. 1800 point centrifuge routes. A gentle start and a multi-level imbalance monitoring ensure for the fact that the laundry is quite wash and wear treated thereby. The laundry comes with the Top models with a residual moisture of only 43% from the machine.
The hand laundry abolished the hand wash programs Miele. They can wash even for hand laundry defined wollwaesche and other highly sensitive textiles, e.g. to silk, heedlessly in the machine. The laundry research in Krefeld acknowledges more careful or more thorough cleaning than by hand to the Miele hand wash programs.
Permanent enamelling only with Miele gets each wash full machine a high-quality direct enamelling. The enamelled surfaces see them to be ensured also after years out as again, there in optimal way corrosion protection, scratching firmness as well as Farb-und acid resistance.
Nothing in the world as strongly as an idea, their time is gek the new device generation Softtronic. is the perfect connection of proven quality with innovative technical know-how. Qualitatively high-quality and proven features like the high-grade steel caustic solution container and permanent enamelling are linked with items of most modern wash technique. Max. laundry indulgence and professional technique reads the objective, the Miele with the new series Softtronic. in each regard becomes fair. Sensationally gentle already drum. From the singular surface texture of the already drum a water film results between textiles and the drum wall, on which the laundry slides gently. The optimal indulgence of the laundry guarantees.
Innovative Sp.lverfahren. A new, innovative hydraulicking provides for optimal rinsing results with reduced water consumption and shorter program execution time. The new device generation Softtronic. executes two rinsing processes with increased water level, while the rinsing time of each individual rinsing process extends.
Fewer water consumption. Like that it is possible to leave the third rinsing process been allotted to shorten the program execution time altogether the water consumption to 45 litres to lower, and an improved rinsing result nevertheless to obtain.
Short program execution times. A new standard of the Miele wash full machines reads: short program execution times. New realizations from process engineering and detergent development resulted in that a general ver-kuerzung of the main wash courses is possible, without impairing the very good wash result of the Miele wash full machines.
ãIntensivÒ - the key. By selection of the Intensiv. Key for particularly dirty laundry the main laundry can be extended around 15,30 minutes. The non-standard adjustment of the program execution times to the degree of pollution of the laundry leads to still more saving of time and smaller water consumption.
Maintenance-free laugenpumpe. In connection with the new already drum the laugenpumpe of the W 400er of devices is maintenance-free. By the few, small holes of the drum cannot arrive large foreign bodies into the laugenpumpe.
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Post# 14060-2/20/2002-17:24 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (more...)
MESSAGE: Fast and gently: 1800 centrifuge routes. By a professional propulsion principle the Softtronic hurls routes with up to 1800. In the recesses between the honeycombs the water is led directly to the depressing openings. Thus optimal centrifuge results are achieved in particular by the direct discharge to the depressing openings in the drum wall.
your high requirement is our drive! Therefore the top model Softtronic W 487 WPS is equipped with a professional FU drive. The buerstenlose synchronous engine with frequency static frequency changer. briefly FU drive. already in the professional application as particularly durable and wear resistant worked. This strong drive has a clearly higher efficiency opposite a direct current motor and places its efficiency with schleuderdrehzahlen up to 1800 rpm under proof.
The FU drive is unsurpassed quietly also with high schleuderdrehzah-len. The omission of the carbon brush conductor noise causes when washing just like with centrifuges a clear noise reduction.
Electronic speed regulation. The drum in the centrifuge discharge can be braked by the electronic speed regulation of the drive directly. Thus a verkuerzung of the centrifuge processes and thus a verkuerzung of the program execution time are achieved.
The new drum lighting. The new drum lighting of Miele ensures by the application of a halogen lighting up means for optimal illuminating of the internal drum. As soon as a key is pressed on the control panel of the Miele wash full machine, the drum lighting switches itself on automatically. The drum lighting of the W 487 WPS makes an unloading of the drum substantially more comfortable. It is almost impossible that you overlook a piece of laundry in the brightly illuminated drum. Also the space before the machine is illuminated.
Longer life span. A further result of the deceleration is a reduction of the discharge oscillations. Because by the direct deceleration of the drum the critical speed range, into which higher vibrations occur, can be passed through very fast. Thus additionally the life span of the devices extends.
Power-off off takes place after the start of the selected program. If the wash full machine is switched on and selected longer than five minutes no program, the halogen-Leuchte switches itself off automatically. Unnecessary current consumption is avoided in such a way.
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Post# 14061-2/20/2002-18:05 ||| HQOTS (Florida)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (translation site)
MESSAGE: You do know where the babelfish came from don't you?
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Post# 14062-2/20/2002-18:18 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (honeycomb Miele Translation)
MESSAGE: Suds,
Thanks for these translations, they are a pig to do.
The current Mieles have an electronically controlled DC motor designed for 10,000 hours. The new honeycombs have a synchronous motor designed for 25,000, which is some life. Any idea what synchronous means.
From the translations, I am not sure what FU means, I think that the new motors are DD, but they are probably DC as well, FU could be either, my German is not up to it. Louis?
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Post# 14063-2/20/2002-18:26 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (translation site)
MESSAGE: Of course. You stick the babelfish in your ear.
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Post# 14064-2/20/2002-18:28 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: Pictures of filters and hook ups
MESSAGE: Louis,
Your AEG filter looks very similar to how I remember teh one in my AEG. However, your Miele filter bears no resemblance to my Miele filter, mine definitely has no screen. I will take photos as soon as I can.
Love your electrical hook up. I have simpler electrical connections, single socket each behind washer and dryer, operated by switched fuse timer devices above the worktop.
My water connection is less usual. Miele is cold fill only, and I have a full tank of gas-heated water, so I have connected both H&C through a y valve. I usually fill it on hot, then switch to cold for rinses. I fill with cold, or warm if I have heat setting stains to contend with.
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Post# 14065-2/20/2002-18:29 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (honeycomb Miele Translation)
MESSAGE: As far as I can gather, a synchronous motor is an AC motor that can be set to have a power factor of 1 (or close to it). The high power factor helps them be more efficient in terms of wattage, and probably more efficient in terms of wiring/amp ratings. I think they tend to be more expensive than asynch AC or regular DC motors. I *thought* they were not speed-variable, but maybe that is not the case, since they must be variable for use in a washer like the Miele. I'll have to read up more on synchronous motors.
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Post# 14066-2/20/2002-18:37 ||| HQOTS (Florida)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (translation site)
MESSAGE: Thats right. How else would you be able to understand the Vogons.
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Post# 14067-2/20/2002-18:52 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (translation site)
MESSAGE: Certainly, although it begs the question of why anyone would want to understand Vogons.
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Post# 14068-2/20/2002-20:35 ||| cycla-fabric (New Jersey)
SUBJECT: Eagerbeaver 1955 Kenmores
MESSAGE: I just checked my Sears Catalogs and found your pair listed in the 1955 Book. They were Sears Best 4 Star Value machines. In the description they list the the control panel as having gold color with chrome plated trim. The dial control is black(but the pictures in the catalog show the machines in black in white photos. They were "Sears Best" machines for 1955
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Post# 14069-2/20/2002-20:56 ||| peteski50 (New York)
SUBJECT: Combos
MESSAGE: For those interested in combos - I have a Equator 3600 for 3 years & am basically happy with the washing, but of course the drying sux. But I always said I wish the tub was a bit bigger also. I found out a few days ago that Thor is comming out with a new combo that is bigger than the current version. It will have a 2.4 cu ft drum - currently their washer is a 1.8 - My Equator is a 1.9 - They also indicated to me when I spoke to them that their machines are manufactured in Italy. I had been under the impression it was made in China like the Quietline & Harier. They told me those machines are different than theirs. They said this new model will have mechinical controls & will be 3 inches deeper but still 24" - Also it will still be condensor and 120 volt.If I hear anything else I will post - If anyone else gets more information please let me know.
Thanks
Peter
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Post# 14070-2/20/2002-21:38 ||| earthling177 (Boston, MA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Synchronous motors)
MESSAGE: Synchronous motors are just alternators in reverse. Instead of comutators, you have rings that never change the polarity of the rotor. The magnetic field rotates around the stator with line frequency, and the rotor "follows" the field at the same speed (synchronous). As opposed to induction motors, where the field rotates around the stator, induces a current in the rotor which follows the field a little behind it ("slippage") -- it can't follow at the same speed, otherwise there would be no current induced in the rotor to make it work. (Incidentally, that's the reason we see induction motors with weird speeds, like 1750 and 3450 rpm, instead of 1800/3600 rpm.)
The power factor varies a little, and can be slightly higher than 1 (work as a capacitor) depending on the load the motor is carrying.
Sync motors used to be common during late 1800 and early 1900 to "correct" the power factor in factories so they'd pay less for electrical rates.
They fell in disuse for 3 reasons: maintanance was higher than induction motors, the use of brushes was dangerous in explosive environments for which induction motors excelled (fabric mills, for example), and last, but certainly not least, when huge and more efficient capacitors became common with the advent of polyester insulation it was basically way simpler and better to just use banks of capacitors to correct the power factor. Teflon made capacitors even more interesting than sync motors. (Old capacitors were insulated with air or oil, a pain in the ass.)
A forth reason, altho not too important, is that very large sync motors are not self starting. Induction motors can basically start rotating slowly and gain speed because the rotor is always behind the rotating field in the stator. Synchronous motors larger than 50-100hp basically had to be disconnected from the load with clutches, started, then connected to the load slowly so as not to "slip" out of sync. The clutches had a tendency to wear out and be a bitch to keep working. Extremely large sync motors had clutches to disconnect them from the load, then the brushes would be short-circuited to transform the motor into and "induction" motor, started, switched back to sync, then the clutch would slowly connect the load. Not so simple. (Remember, all that happened at a time when factories would have a few very large motors and belts all over the place. Today we have large numbers of small motors connected directly to the load and wires all over the place.)
Sync motors were also common with old electric clocks on the basis that they work at the same speed (frequency) of line current. Until electronics/oscillating crystals became common, people just accepted that electric clocks would work faster or slower if line frequency varied a little.
Which brings us to how are they varying the speed of the Miele sync motors. They use electronics to vary the line frequency they feed to the motor. Other companies often use a "brushless DC motor" which is basically a glorified induction motor with varying line frequencies. I had never heard of manufacturers of clothes washers using actual DC motors and controlling their speed before, but there's a first for everything. If I'm not mistaken, for example, the Maytag Neptune uses a triphasic motor run a different frequencies to vary the speed. Other machines often use a 5-phase motor, also varying frequencies.
I'm not sure I've helped here, but I kinda hope I did... :-)
-- Paulo.
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Post# 14071-2/20/2002-00:30 ||| arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)
SUBJECT: Mieles
MESSAGE: Here is a list of the Miele's available in Australia.
Any of them the one with the honeycomb drum?
While I am fascinated by the concept of the honeycomb drum really, FL's are gentle by nature, how can holes in the drum be that big a menace?
Is the drum though made out of stainless steel? Or some other material like carbon fibre? The size and shap of the honeycombs?
LINK: http://www.worthit.com.au/energylabel/cwashers_srch.asp?type=All&capacity=all&brand=MIELE&B1=SEARCH&Elec=&HUses=&HElec=&Years=&sort=%5BNew+SRI%5D+DESC&list=comp#RESULT
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Post# 14072-2/21/2002-07:43 ||| Aloconto (shrewsbury, ma.)
SUBJECT: tappan fabulous 400 electric stove
MESSAGE: I would like to restore my tappan 400 stove. Can any body help me find one restored or for parts? Also is there anyone near boston ma. who could help me repair/restore the one i have. i have an owners manual, but does anyone have a repair manual? i currently use this stove daily. Thanks for the help Angelo
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Post# 14073-2/21/2002-09:08 ||| Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: 1920's (?) Estate gas range in St. Paul (RE: 1920's (?) Estate gas range in St. Paul )
MESSAGE: Hi Cari, I will contact the person I know in Inver Grove Heights and see if its OK for me to give you his phone number. I will email you about that. He doesn't restore as far as I know, just collects. The restorers I know don't do Stoves and Ranges per se, they mostly work on washers, dryers and dishwashers, like myself.
As for having porcelain retouching/recoating there might be some local places to have that done as I know of quite a few chrome replaters in the city. You might want to check the yellow pages.
One important thing to remember is that unfortunately, in the vintage appliance hobby in the 21st century, there are very few people that you can "pay" to do the restoration work for you, this is mostly a do-it-yourself thing. Most appliance repair people now are just "part-changers". They have absoultely no interest in doing any work that they must "think" beyond changing a part, billing the customer and and going onto the next part-changing job.
*****
Post# 14074-2/21/2002-09:12 ||| Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: Eagerbeaver 1955 Kenmores (Lid Opens?)
MESSAGE: Yes but Cycla, in your 1955 catalog did the lid of the washer open towards the back or towards the left?
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Post# 14075-2/21/2002-09:12 ||| Jetcone (Boston.MA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Good crb)
MESSAGE: They did get to eat great Crab though!!!!
I would love to try their crab holiday!!!
JEt
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Post# 14076-2/21/2002-09:15 ||| Jetcone (Boston.MA)
SUBJECT: RE: Combos (Got your message)
MESSAGE: Pete:
Got your message the other night, i have been down with the flu these last several days and can now just stand up. OY! I will give a ring this weekend.
On your combos- Have you seen the new LG? I will go to grays this weekend and take some pix of it. It is supposed to have DD like the Fisher Paykel!!
Jet
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Post# 14077-2/21/2002-09:15 ||| Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: tappan fabulous 400 electric stove
MESSAGE: For help with Stoves or Ranges please see this web-site:
http://www.antiquestoves.com/
LINK: http://www.antiquestoves.com/
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Post# 14078-2/21/2002-10:34 ||| PeterH770 (Atlanta, GA)
SUBJECT: RE: tappan fabulous 400 electric stove
MESSAGE: You can try this website also, but I think they are into restoring their own and reselling them retail..
-ph
LINK: http://www.antiqueappliances.com/
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Post# 14079-2/21/2002-11:44 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Miele in plain english )
MESSAGE: Besides from having a good laughs (wash full machines) I am actually quite impressed by the working of Babelfish. I have seen a few manuals that were translated much worse, in fact so bad that you could understand the original better although you didn't speak the language.
Louis
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Post# 14080-2/21/2002-11:47 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Synchronous motors)
MESSAGE: Thanks for that lucide explanation of synchronicity, Paulo :-).
How can a motor be DC and still use alternating current?
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Post# 14081-2/21/2002-11:53 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (honeycomb Miele Translation)
MESSAGE: I haven't got a clue. The only thing the dutch brochure says is that the motor is a-synchrone, whatever that means.
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Post# 14082-2/21/2002-11:54 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Ooops)
MESSAGE: The answer is already there!!
*****
Post# 14083-2/21/2002-11:59 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: RE: Pictures of filters and hook ups
MESSAGE: My Miele is actually older than my AEG, so I guess since then there have been some changes.
Although I am not in favor of hooking a washer up to hot water I have been thinking of hooking up one of the washer to a thermostatic valve. My hot water system however is not suitable for it. My combo hot water heater/central heating boiler doesn't have a pilot light but an electric ignition and it takes a while to turn on, so there would be quite an amount of water in the washer before the hot water arrives at the valve.
Louis
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Post# 14084-2/21/2002-12:02 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (honeycomb Miele Translation)
MESSAGE: I believe I am still a little confused now, Miele says in the brochure that they put a a-synchronous motor in the TOL Miele, not a synchronous.
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Post# 14085-2/21/2002-12:09 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: RE: Mieles
MESSAGE: There is not one honeycomb Miele on that list. It is the new 400 series that have that drum.
At the moment Miele has 5 models:
800 series: BOL
900 series: More features and higher spinspeeds
300 series: New technology and even more features
400 series: Honeycomb drum, brushless a-synchronous motor in the most expensive model.
100 series: Toploading H-axis
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Post# 14086-2/21/2002-12:36 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: Mieles
MESSAGE: From the photos on the German Miele web site, it looks like the inner drum is stainless. I don't see that specifically mentioned in the text that I have "translated", so far.
The honeycombing seems to accomplish several things: help channel the water out of the drum through a combination of capillary action and centrifugal force; leave a thin layer of water on the honeycombs to help cushion the fabrics, perhaps similar to the cushioning effect of a thin layer of oil in an automotive plain bearing (I'm assuiming that the surface of the honeycomb is a matte finish to encourage wetting); recess the holes so that the fabrics are not in direct contact with them; make the holes smaller so that large debris is not allowed into the intradrum gap and hence cannot jam the drain pump ("langenpumpe").
Yes, front loaders are by nature more gentle than top loaders, but for hand wash cycles even more gentleness is good.
If you go to www.miele.de you can navigate to product pages that show the appearance of the honeycomb.
*****
Post# 14087-2/21/2002-12:47 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (honeycomb Miele Translation)
MESSAGE: This is indeed a mystery.
What I'm wondering, however, is what the heck is a "Sea Rose"???
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Post# 14088-2/21/2002-13:48 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: RE: Mieles
MESSAGE: Yes, the drum is stainless steel. I think I read somewhere it is anti-/non-magnetic. The better quality stainless steel so to speak.
*****
Post# 14089-2/21/2002-13:54 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (honeycomb Miele Translation)
MESSAGE: Seerose: Water-lily.
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Post# 14090-2/21/2002-15:01 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: Mieles (Miele drums)
MESSAGE: Were the old Miele drums magnetic? How about yours?
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Post# 14091-2/21/2002-15:05 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Water Lily)
MESSAGE: Aha! Thanks for the explanation. How odd that the translator didn't understand that.
I was thinking, maybe sea-weed, or sea-urchin, or starfish, or even a sea wave. Because water lilies are strictly fresh-water plants, I didn't think of them in relation to a sea organism.
Now, I've rinsed and spun dry romaine lettuce in my Neptune. It did leave the leaves a bit bruised. I wonder if the Miele honeycomb machine would do any better... The world's most expensive salad spinner!
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Post# 14092-2/21/2002-15:29 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: RE: Mieles (Miele drums)
MESSAGE: Yes, magnets hold on to my Miele drum. I also tried my AEG drum and it feels like the magnets holds a little more on to the drum of the AEG than to the Miele, but that might also be imagination.
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Post# 14093-2/21/2002-15:37 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Water Lily)
MESSAGE: The confusing thing here is that in German a lake is called 'See'. And a sea is called 'Meer'. Translating from Dutch to German v.v. is even more confusing. What we call 'zee' (sea) they call 'Meer' and what we call 'meer' (lake) they call 'See'.
If you spin lettuce in a washer you should fold it into a teatowel. I think the 1800rpm might be a bit too much for the lettuce. I have used my spindryer for this purpose a few times.
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Post# 14094-2/21/2002-15:42 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: Newsflash: That 70's Miele washer
MESSAGE: Tonight I bought a semi-automatic toploading Miele from the seventies. It's a kind of washer like a twintub, but then without the spinpart. You combine it with a separate spindryer. It's very small but it holds around 10lbs of laundry. The owner is going to deliver it on Saturday. He says it works wonderful. The picture is not very clear, but you get the idea. I will ofcourse take pictures and post here later.
Louis
LINK: http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/foraloysius/vwp?.dir=/My+Miele+Map&.dnm=Miele++70s+washer.jpg&.src=ph&.view=t&.hires=t
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Post# 14095-2/21/2002-16:33 ||| DADoES (El Campo, TX)
SUBJECT: Vintage ads featuring Fiestaware
MESSAGE: Link attached
LINK: http://www.fiestafanatic.com/fiestaephemerapage1.html
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Post# 14096-2/21/2002-16:56 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: Mieles (Miele drums)
MESSAGE: The Neptune drum is interesting - it's non-magnetic but has a matte finish. Perhaps that finish helps water migrate to the holes at high speeds.
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Post# 14097-2/21/2002-16:59 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Water Lily)
MESSAGE: I recalled that in Dutch, Zee means Sea because I once saw a documentary about the closing of the Zuider Zee. (sp?).
I was careful to choose the low spin speed (400 rpm I think) on the Neptune when drying the lettuce. I did not enjoy cleaning all the lettuce bits out of the drum and boot, though.
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Post# 14098-2/21/2002-18:22 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Water Lily)
MESSAGE: You can go faster than 400. Some years ago, I tried this in my 1200 spin AEG, just to see if it worked. I let it spin at full speed and the lettuce, iceburg I think, came out just fine.
Oh, and if you tie the lettuce into a clean pillow case, it keeps the washer much neater
*****
Post# 14099-2/21/2002-18:25 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: Mieles
MESSAGE: I've been cheated. My Miele is drum held a magnet very strongly, I must have cheap stainless steel.
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Post# 14100-2/21/2002-18:33 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: Newsflash: That 70's Miele washer
MESSAGE: Congratulations Louis,
Quite a find. I can't wait to see your better pics, so many questions-
It looks like a yellow colour in the pic, rather than white, is it?
Is it a tumble action, or an agitator machine?
When you say semi-automatic, I take it that the machine washes and rinses, but do you have to be there to turn the water on and off, or does it control the water flow.
Please post details of its cycles, and how it performs.
If I remember correctly, you have a Miele spin drier, I would like to find an old one to buy.
Enjoy this little beauty.
*****
Post# 14101-2/21/2002-19:32 ||| Jetcone (Boston.MA)
SUBJECT: RE: Mieles (Maggies)
MESSAGE: I'm going to go check my Staber and Neptune and Gibson to see if they are magnetic!!! I'll bet anyone my Westy is!!!
Jetcone
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Post# 14102-2/21/2002-19:35 ||| Jetcone (Boston.MA)
SUBJECT: RE: Newsflash: That 70's Miele washer (Cute machine)
MESSAGE: Louis cute machine!!!! Can't wait to see it home!
Jon
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Post# 14103-2/21/2002-19:38 ||| Jetcone (Boston.MA)
SUBJECT: RE: Vintage ads featuring Fiestaware
MESSAGE: Dadoes I love the Fiesta with Velveeta! Ummmm! Looks like macaroni & chez is on the menu this week!!!
jetcone
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Post# 14104-2/21/2002-19:52 ||| tcox6912 (New Orleans, LA)
SUBJECT: My Frigidaire
MESSAGE: A big "thank you" to members Jason D and John LeFever for helping me to snag my first vintage washer. My new Frigidaire Rapidry is on its way from Ohio and should be here in about a week. Hooray!!!!
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Post# 14105-2/21/2002-21:45 ||| Jetcone (Boston.MA)
SUBJECT: RE: My Frigidaire (Congratulations)
MESSAGE: Tcox You will enjoy the dryer clothes! What year did the boys get for you? Will we see pix of you in action?
Jetcone
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Post# 14106-2/21/2002-22:25 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: RE: Newsflash: That 70's Miele washer
MESSAGE: Looks like a cutie - another interesting appliance to your collection! And you thought you didn't have room for more appliances, your guest room will be filled in no time!
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Post# 14107-2/21/2002-22:32 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: RE: Mieles (Maggies)
MESSAGE: My Asko is, the Westy is ;-).....but the stainless '54 Speed Queen tub is not.
While scurrying around with my miniature iron magnet, I happened to notice that there was 1/4 tub of water in the Hotpoint tonight, drip, drip, drip. Guess he'll be needing some water valve work this weekend, it's always something!
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Post# 14108-2/21/2002-22:35 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: RE: My Frigidaire
MESSAGE: Congrats! Are you using Craters and Freighters for the move? You will enjoy this washer a great deal - the sounds and suds will be a source of fun for years to come. Does it need any work?
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Post# 14109-2/21/2002-22:36 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: Mieles
MESSAGE: LOL, just because a steel is magnetic doesn't mean it's cheap. In general, I think a nonmagenetic stainless steel may be a weaker steel than a magnetic one. The nonmagnetic is probably more corrosion resistant. So it's a toss-up. There are so many different stainless alloys... each comgination with different characteristics... I don't have a handle on which ones are which, by number. Maybe someone with metallurgical expertise can shed more light on the matter.
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Post# 14110-2/21/2002-22:50 ||| tcox6912 (New Orleans, LA)
SUBJECT: RE: My Frigidaire (Congratulations)
MESSAGE: I believe it is a 1965. Will post pics as soon as I get her home. I'm as happy as a sissy in boystown!!
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Post# 14111-2/21/2002-22:52 ||| tcox6912 (New Orleans, LA)
SUBJECT: RE: My Frigidaire
MESSAGE: A few of the members recommended Craters & Freighters, so I used them. It's in really good condition and purrs like a kitten. Can't wait to start stirring up the bubbles.
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Post# 14112-2/22/2002-06:56 ||| gizmo (Great Ocean Road, Victoria, Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (motors - DC and synchronous)
MESSAGE: I will look it up before I am online again, I thought synchronous motors was just a generic description of any motor where the frequency of supply decided the speed of the motor, so most induction motors are synchronous. (???) Synchronous motors can be made variable speed by electronically varying the frequency of the supply.
I have been told, though I have never been inside one myself, that the last of the Australian made Hoover front loaders, the Electra-economiser series, used a two speed induction motor with electronic frequency control to provide two more speeds. The motor was a cheap Italian washing machine motor as used in the earlier (Zodiac 480 and 490) series, but with a larger pulley to gear up the drum speeds. The motor had a 16 pole and a 2 pole winding, giving something like 360 rpm and 2800 rpm at 240v 50Hz. The earlier version had just the two speeds, geared to provide wash (tumble) at about 55rpm and spin at about 420rpm. They got lots of complaints about poor spinning, as the even earlier version used the UK Hoover system (brush type motor with electronic control) which spun at about 700 rpm. So the later version used a larger pulley, so that at 2800 motor rpm the drum spun at 800 rpm. a slow spin was provided by using the electronic frequency controller. The slow winding would be too fast now, the electronic frequency controller allowed the wash speed to remain at about 55 rpm. Providing full mains frequency to the slow winding would make a suitable "distribute" phase before spin, but I don't know if this was actually done or not.
DC motors on AC are easy. A bridge rectifier convers full wave AC cycles to DC. (not pure DC - there is still some pulsing variation) The Philips top loading H_Axis washers use a small DC motor. The motors themselves are VERY efficient, however the speed control in the Philips ones is crude and makes the system particularly inefficient. I suspect the Miele DC motor system would be very efficient. I am a member of the Alternative Technology Association in Aus and we had a mobile display trailer to take to schools, fairs and so on to show solar/wind power, efficient technology and so on (The Energymobile).Some years ago Miele Australia kindly sponsored the display by providing a Novotronic washer. The display had a giant meter in the background, you could push a series of buttons to see how much power each of a variety of appliances used. The electric heater was the highest. The Miele washer was a very modest user.
The asynchronous motor on the newer Miele - just a wild guess, it could be a stepper motor. This is a newer kid on the block in motor technology, the F&P smart drive and LG Direct Drive use it. The motor had a set of permanent magnets arranged around a disc. There are a set of windings arranged close to the disc. As different combinations and polarities of windings are energized, the disc jumps to the correct alignment for each combination. By switching each set of windings on in turn, the disc can be made to rotate in a series of steps. the faster the steps are switched, the faster the disc turns. The disc can be made to turn with a wider variety of speeds and with greater efficiency than other motor technologies.
The hard drive and floppy drive in your computer use stepper motors.
Oh, crap, I've done it again. (another long post.)
Chris
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Post# 14113-2/22/2002-07:00 ||| Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: Newsflash: That 70's Miele washer
MESSAGE: Very neat Louis, congratulations. I'm assuming its a tumbler. Can't wait to see some closeups.
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Post# 14114-2/22/2002-07:03 ||| Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: My Frigidaire
MESSAGE: WOW, congratulations Todd how wonderful. You're going to love it! If its coming from Ohio, Bob Salem in Cleveland must have found it. Do you know what model or year it is? How are you shipping it to New Orleans?
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Post# 14115-2/22/2002-07:07 ||| tcox6912 (New Orleans, LA)
SUBJECT: RE: My Frigidaire
MESSAGE: you're right ... Bob is my hero. using craters & freighters.
I believe its a 1965, but not sure.
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Post# 14116-2/22/2002-07:36 ||| Jetcone (Boston.MA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (not long at all)
MESSAGE: Chris I've learned more about motors in that post than the in the that whole big fat book I read on motor controls! I would love to tear into a F/P flat motor and someday convert a future Westy slant front to all electronic controls!!!
Keep it coming!
Jet
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Post# 14117-2/22/2002-07:45 ||| CleanteamofNY (Brooklyn, NY)
SUBJECT: White Westinghouse
MESSAGE: Today I saw a White Westinghouse Electric Auto Dryer in the trash. Model # DE641PD. It's a shame I don't have a van to bring that ole girl home for I fell in love with the control panel and I always love the look of the timer dial. What was missing from the dryer was the cord and the motor. Otherwise, the paint was in mint condition with the crossvane basket still intact.
And last week, while I was on my route, somebody got ride of a Kitchenaid Superba Dishwasher made by Hobart. So many fine appliances is going to the crusher, what a shame! :-((
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Post# 14118-2/22/2002-07:57 ||| cycla-fabric (New Jersey)
SUBJECT: Hi Oldappliancenut!
MESSAGE: Welcome aboard Oldappliancenut! Hope you enjoy the site, its great and very imformative and fun. I love those old Kenmore Combo's too, Enjoy yourself, Cycla
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Post# 14119-2/22/2002-08:10 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: RE: Hi Oldappliancenut!
MESSAGE: Welcome to the club! There are some pics of RCA Whirlpool and Kenmore combos in the member's photo albums and Uni's RCA/WP combo in the museum section too. I tried to look at your photos on Yahoo, but it said restricted area.
Enjoy the club! Greg
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Post# 14120-2/22/2002-09:41 ||| PeterH770 (Atlanta, GA)
SUBJECT: RE: White Westinghouse (what is the last slant front year?)
MESSAGE: Westies must be in season! I have a slant front Westy dryer waiting on me at my usual haunt. It has the newer square door with the chrome lock and oval window. The control panel is nearly flat, timed cycle only and a temp adjuster, but the panel is in rough shape. My guess is that this is one of the last slant fronts made. In what year were the slant fronts discontinued? Pics to come soon...
-ph
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Post# 14121-2/22/2002-09:42 ||| PeterH770 (Atlanta, GA)
SUBJECT: RE: Newsflash: That 70's Miele washer
MESSAGE: Looks wonderful, Louis! Congrats! I suppose you will use this machine with your little Miele centrifuge?
-ph
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Post# 14122-2/22/2002-09:43 ||| scott55405 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: White Westinghouse (what is the last slant front year?)
MESSAGE: and while we're at it, does anyone know *why* they were discontinued?
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Post# 14123-2/22/2002-09:43 ||| PeterH770 (Atlanta, GA)
SUBJECT: RE: My Frigidaire
MESSAGE: You'll love it! Once you get used to washing in a Frigidaire, nothing else will do! Congrats!
-ph
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Post# 14124-2/22/2002-09:44 ||| scott55405 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: Newsflash: That 70's Miele washer
MESSAGE: What a very Royal addition to your collection, Your Majesty!
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Post# 14125-2/22/2002-09:46 ||| scott55405 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: Hi Oldappliancenut!
MESSAGE: Old Appliance Nut, welcome to the club! Please check your photo album you posted the link to, to make sure it is set to public. I could not access your pictures. Thanks! Scott
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Post# 14126-2/22/2002-10:22 ||| PeterH770 (Atlanta, GA)
SUBJECT: RE: My Frigidaire (Here's a pic of it)
MESSAGE: Click on the link...
-ph
LINK: http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/whirlpooljohn525/vwp?.dir=/My+Photos&.src=ph&.dnm=Frigidaire+Rollermatic+Rapidry.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/bc/whirlpooljohn525/lst%3f%26.dir=/My%2bPhotos%26.src=ph%26.view=t
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Post# 14127-2/22/2002-10:49 ||| Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: My Frigidaire (Here's a pic of it)
MESSAGE: Nice but that washer is currently in Maryland, not Ohio?
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Post# 14128-2/22/2002-11:14 ||| Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: Vintage ads featuring Fiestaware (Copyright This)
MESSAGE: Very interesting site. What I find most interesting is that the webmaster of the Fiesta site has copyright notices below many of the Feista ads and I'm willing to bet that he is not the original artist on those pictures. You cannot claim "copyright" to something unless you own the copyright and with the 1998 Digital Copyright Millennium Act (DCMA) plus the 1999 Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act (which is even worse) all those pictures on his site are mostly likely still copyrighted and will be for 70 years after the artist or copyright owner has passed away! I am also willing to be that he does not have permission to post those pictures on his site from the copyright owners, much less claim his own copyright. Too bad because all he really wants to do is share something fun with others who enjoy it too.
Unfortuately the brand new copyright laws were built out of greed by the beggings to Congress of the RIAA and MPAA (Recording and Motion Picture Assocations of America) which have made digital sharing of hard to find (if not impossible) information such as vintage appliance info illegal.
There are many fronts fighting to reverse the DCMA and the Bono Act, but they don't have the money or the politcal clout that the greedy MPAA and RIAA have.
So the moral of this story is enjoy the Picture of the Day while we can, because at some point the government might force me to stop sharing this information with people who care for it without each and every original owner of the vinage material $1000's of dollars first for the right to share.
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Post# 14129-2/22/2002-11:23 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: "Always thought I was alone"
MESSAGE: First of all I would like to say 'hi' to everyone. I was pleasantly surprised when I accidentally happened upon this site recently. I was looking for information on top-loading dishwashers via the net and stumbled upon pictures of some washing machine collectors' convention that had taken place in Minneapolis? Since this aroused my interest, I followed up relevant links which led me here.
Previously I had already visited Lee Maxwell's website many times, which, although it is a fantastic and impressive place to explore, does not have enough modern machines in its collection.
It is great to know that there are others, who are as interested in household appliances as I am. It is always good to know that one isn't alone in this world.
I have been fascinated by the design and workings of appliances from an early age and always thought of it as being a little eccentric, since appliances are not nearly as glamorous as steam and jet engines, automobiles and all the other stuff that people generally get passionate over.
I have already visited some of the photo-albums and find it great that people are also collecting other appliances apart from washing machines.
American appliances are of particular interest to me, plus the variation of styles and designs that have emerged over the last fifty or sixty odd years. Although, I don't have my own collection, I enjoy the material that has been placed on this site.
It is quite sad that long-established appliance manufacturing companies generally don't provide archival records of their products. As a result a lot of history will be lost forever in regards to the technology and design aesthetics that have influenced people's home-lives during the 20th century. I only know of Maytag making available some images of 'machines gone by', via their website. Household appliances are a very big part of modern life - they are just as influential as the car, computer or cell-phone.
Without being sexist, I believe this may be, because they are generally considered girl's rather than boy's toys. Although, hazzarding a guess, I assume that most of the members to this site are male.
Anyway, for now I just want to say hi and hope to get involved in future discussions with other members to this site.
Cheers
Mr-Bubbles
LINK: www.oldewash.com
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Post# 14130-2/22/2002-11:34 ||| scott55405 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: "Always thought I was alone"
MESSAGE: Welcome to the club! We're very pleased you're here, and we have a number of other members from Australia as well! Scott
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Post# 14131-2/22/2002-11:44 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: RE: Newsflash: That 70's Miele washer
MESSAGE: It's just a bad picture. It's a tumble washer and it's actually full automatic, but it doesn't spin. Overhere in Holland we call that a half- or semi-automatic. There are mainly three cycles. Regular, perm press and delicate. One of the big dials is the timer with prewash, wash, rinse and pump on it. The other dial is for the temperature. There are also three buttons, one if for on/off, with the second you can set the perm press cycle and with the third you choose the delicate cycle.
I will post more details later.
Louis
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Post# 14132-2/22/2002-11:47 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: RE: Newsflash: That 70's Miele washer
MESSAGE: I might put this washer on the landing where the Bosch rotary ironer is now, so that could go to the guestroom. I also could try to get the Bosch into the study and put the AEG somewhere else... All zat pushing and pulling again. Now who was that...
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Post# 14133-2/22/2002-11:49 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: RE: Mieles (closing valves)
MESSAGE: Don't you close the valves after you have used a washer? You silly...
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Post# 14134-2/22/2002-11:53 ||| PeterH770 (Atlanta, GA)
SUBJECT: RE: My Frigidaire (Here's a pic of it)
MESSAGE: Oh! Maybe I miss read, but I thought the machine was one John had for sale...
-ph
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Post# 14135-2/22/2002-11:54 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: RE: Newsflash: That 70's Miele washer
MESSAGE: Yes, they make a nice combination although my Miele centrifuge is from the eighties, but it was one of the last ones with a brown ring at the top instead of a white one, like most ones in the seventies had.
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Post# 14136-2/22/2002-11:55 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: RE: Newsflash: That 70's Miele washer
MESSAGE: Why thank you Your Majesty, we hope that you will be able to look at it in person sometime.
QLOTOC
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Post# 14137-2/22/2002-12:07 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: RE: "Always thought I was alone"
MESSAGE: Hello mr Bubbles,
Welcome, interesting appliance history you have. Could you tell more about the Siemens toploader? Did it spin or was it a non-spinning tumblewasher. Was it used in combination with the Siemens centrifuge?
Louis
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Post# 14138-2/22/2002-12:16 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: RE: Mieles (closing valves)
MESSAGE: I have valves for each machine in the water system, but they are on the floor. The main shut-off valves for that tubing system are up higher behind the gold Frigidaire and I did shut them off last night. I rarely shut off the whole system when I'm done washing - only when I leave for a couple of days. Since I've switched everything over to copper from plastic, I've not had any problems or leak.
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Post# 14139-2/22/2002-12:41 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: "Always thought I was alone"
MESSAGE: Hi Mr Bubbles,
I nearly called you Bubbles the, but that would be too familiar for a first introduction.
You have summed up how I felt when I found this site. It is such a joy to find that one is not the only one. You are right, that material on this web site is amazing, have you checked teh videos, I love them, and the old consumer reports.
I agree about how manufacturers neglect their history. Miele has a museum in Germany, but I do not know of a web history.
I am intruiged by your Australian St George, I have not heard of this brand. Would love to know more.
Welcome aboard.
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Post# 14140-2/22/2002-12:46 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: Newsflash: That 70's Miele washer
MESSAGE: Thanks Louis,
It sounds fantastic. I like the sound of the programming methos, reminds me very much of the AEG style, timer knob and press buttons for perm press and delicate - I always thought that a simple elegant solution, though the better half never managed to work it.
Will you use this machine?
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Post# 14141-2/22/2002-12:57 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (motors - DC and synchronous)
MESSAGE: Chris / Paulo
Many thanks for the information on motors. It's a subject that I find fascinating, but struggle to understand. Your posts have helped me further my limited understanding and encouraged me to read the subject further.
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Post# 14142-2/22/2002-13:14 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (motors - DC and synchronous)
MESSAGE: Chris,
Thanks for that information about motors.
The Neptune service manual states that the motor is a "Switched Reluctance Motor controlled by a microporcessor motor control board."
Here is the text from page 2-7 of the manual, in the original English:
"The drive motor is a switched reluctance type motor. The basic operating principle of the switched reluctance motor is direct magnetic attraction between the stationary electromagnetic cois (stator) and a specially configured rotor or armature. The rotor is comprised of stacked plates or laminations mounted on a center shaft. The shape of these laminations are characteristic of the switched reluctance motor. The rotor, when viewed from the end of the rotor, has teeth much like a gear. These "teeth", or pole pieces, are pulled as the result of direct current power through the stator coils.
Multiple stator coils are positioned around the rotor and are connected in three different phased "sets" of paird coils.
Magnetic attraction causes the rotor poles to turn toward the coils. The electronic motor control board switches the magnetic field off as the rotor pole piece approaches; then, turns on another set of coils further ahead. It is this switching action of motor phases that determines direction and rotational speed of the rotor (and shaft). The motor control board changes the 120 VAC voltage line input to 170 VDC, and distributes the current phases to the stator coil sets in sequence to the drive motor.
The motor control board receives 120 VAC voltage fromthe line cord and distributes DC voltage to the drive motor. The motor control converts the voltage from single phase to 3 phase for the drive motor."
Here is the same text, translated in to German by the Babelfish:
"der Antriebsmotor ist ein geschaltener Abneigung Artmotor. Das grundlegende Arbeitsprinzip des geschaltenen Abneigung Motors ist direkte magnetische Anziehung zwischen den stationären elektromagnetischen cois (Stator) und einem besonders konfigurierten Rotor oder einer Armatur. Der Rotor wird von den gestapelten Platten oder von Laminierungen enthalten, die an einem Mittelschaft eingehangen werden. Die Form dieser Laminierungen sind vom geschaltenen Abneigung Motor charakteristisch. Der Rotor, wenn er vom Ende des Rotors angesehen wird, hat Zähne ganz wie ein Zahnrad. Diese " Zähne " oder Pfosten bessert aus, werden gezogen, während das Resultat der Gleichstromenergie durch den Stator umwickelt. Mehrfache Statorspulen werden um den Rotor in Position gebracht und werden in drei unterschiedlichen eingeteilten " Sets " pairdspulen angeschlossen. Magnetische Anziehung verursacht die Rotorpfosten zur Umdrehung in Richtung zu den Spulen. Das elektronische Bewegungsbedienpult schält das magnetische Feld aus, während das Rotorpfostenstück sich nähert; dann schält ein anderes Set Spulen weiter voran ein. Es ist diese Schaltung Tätigkeit der Bewegungsphasen, die Richtung und Rotationsgeschwindigkeit des Rotors feststellt (und der Welle). Das Bewegungsbedienpult ändert die eine 120 VACspannung Zeile, die zu 170 VDC eingegeben wird und verteilt die aktuellen Phasen auf die Statorspule Sets in der Reihenfolge auf den Antriebsmotor. Das Bewegungsbedienpult empfängt 120 VAC Spannung fromthe-Netzanschlußschnur und verteilt Gleichstromspannung auf den Antriebsmotor. Die Bewegungssteuerung wandelt die Spannung vom einphasigen in Phase 3 für den Antriebsmotor. "
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Post# 14143-2/22/2002-14:00 ||| scott55405 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: Newsflash: That 70's Miele washer
MESSAGE: Most definitely; we shall be looking forward to that!
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Post# 14144-2/22/2002-15:36 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: Painted advertisements
MESSAGE: This is a site with painted wall advertisements. There is a whole section with home appliances ads. Look at the Atlantic ads, it looks like they are American style toploaders.
LINK: http://www.elve.net/padv/home.htm
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Post# 14145-2/22/2002-15:42 ||| austinado16 (San Luis Obispo, CA)
SUBJECT: Good new for vintage range hood seekers!!
MESSAGE: Hi all,
I thought I'd share some good news regarding the production of vintage range hoods. I've been working on this for some time now and am starting to make significant progress.
I've been in touch with the Vent-A-Hood company in Texas. As you may know, they are credited with being the first manufacturer of residencial hoods back in the 40's and are still in production today. They have a pretty nice website if you'd like to check out the current line. www.ventahood.com
After speaking with both the national sales manager, James Adams, and the technical advisor, Bob Norris, they have decided to present the idea of a retro line of hoods to commemorate the company's 75th anniversary next year. James just purchased an old brochure on ebay that he plans to show to the company's owner.
Also, Bob states that they may actually have "some" original hoods still in a warehouse, but he has to confirm that.
I would encourage anyone interested in a retro hood to email James, reference my name and express your interest. The more interest we can generate, the better the chances of a production line. His email is jadams@ventahood.com
I've thought about posting a form letter, but I think it would be better if everyone just used their own words.
I'll update you as soon as I hear back from Bob next week.
Todd
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Post# 14146-2/22/2002-16:28 ||| Fanfare (Idaho)
SUBJECT: Top Loading Built-in Westy Dishwasher
MESSAGE: Howdy, I used to be Deluxe, but spaced my password. I was just wondering if anyone remembers the built-in Westy dishwashers of the late 50's and early 60's. The entire tub rolled out and the dishes loaded from the top. They were impeller machines, and didn't do too bad of a job considering. They also did a much better job of drying than most machines today. Thanks!
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Post# 14147-2/22/2002-17:05 ||| golittlesport (California)
SUBJECT: RE: My Frigidaire (Congratulations)
MESSAGE: Congratulations on your Frigidaire! I had a 1965 model in the late 70's/early 80's. Alas, it was not a rapid-dry model like yours is. What fun you will have!
Rich
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Post# 14148-2/22/2002-17:20 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: RE: Top Loading Built-in Westy Dishwasher (Would you like to own one??)
MESSAGE: I have one of these - as well as the guys in D.C. have one or two also. GE also made a roll-out built in dishwasher like this too.
Here's pics of the Westy I have - you are welcome to it if you want it, just come get it! It's in marvelous condition for it's age, wasn't used for many years the previous owner told me.
LINK: http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/gansky1/vwp?.dir=/Westinghouse&.src=ph&.dnm=Mod+%23+SUC24S03+Ser+%23SD121390.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/bc/gansky1/lst%3f%26.dir=/Westinghouse%26.src=ph%26.view=t
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Post# 14149-2/22/2002-17:27 ||| Jetcone (Boston.MA)
SUBJECT: RE: My Frigidaire (1967???)
MESSAGE: Peter mine is identical! Is yours a 1967?? Or does it have the lint light which puts it at 1968??
IT dries so much better than a Unimatic don't you agree???
signed-
"about to be slapped in boston"
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Post# 14150-2/22/2002-18:11 ||| angus (Fairfield, CT.)
SUBJECT: RE: My Frigidaire
MESSAGE: Congratulations on the great find!! How and when did you find this?? What is the color?
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Post# 14151-2/22/2002-18:30 ||| angus (Fairfield, CT.)
SUBJECT: Additional Miscellaneous Finds
MESSAGE: Today, while prowling in Trader Joe's in Westport, CT., I noticed a shelf full of "Kirk's Hardwater Castile Soap" - at $.79/bar. I recall that this was discussed some time ago with some question as to where to find it. Perhaps other "TJ's" carry it also...
Also, I have found a source for obtaining FAB, Fresh Start and Ajax Ultra detergent powder. As you may know, Colgate no longer distributes their ultra formula powdered detergents in the Northeast (unless you are lucky enough to find an independent grocer who has some). A very pleasant and helpful customer service rep at Colgate suggested that I try the website "dei-services.com". They apparently are a distribution company headquartered in Tampa whose function is to make certain products from different manufacturers available by mail. I visited the site briefly and saw that they carry a wide array of products - not just laundry. I didn't check price lists, but will do that next. Caveat - they only carry the regular FAB powder, not the Rain Forest or the newly introduced Sunshower Fresh with Bleach Alternative. And I believe they carry only the small (18 load size) box. But still, it is better than nothing.
Since the Colgate rep was so nice, she offered to scrounge around and send me a few boxes of Rain Forest and Sunshower Fresh to try. I thought that was a very nice offer! So, if I like these products, I may have to ask one of you in the Southwest or Midwest for a relief shipment!! Contraband detergents - - how thrilling!!!!
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Post# 14152-2/22/2002-19:27 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: Additional Miscellaneous Finds
MESSAGE: Thanks for the heads up on Kirk's soap, Tony. I will check out our local Trader's. Would you believe I've never been to a Traders yet?
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Post# 14153-2/22/2002-20:10 ||| angus (Fairfield, CT.)
SUBJECT: RE: Additional Miscellaneous Finds
MESSAGE: They seem to be popping up everywhere in our part of the country - only within the past three years. It's almost impossible to go somewhere without seeing one. They are a great source for things like dried fruits and nuts, as well as an unusual array of frozen foods. I particularly like the cookies shaped like little cats............
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Post# 14154-2/22/2002-20:35 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: Additional Miscellaneous Finds
MESSAGE: There's been one in Emeryville, which is about 10 miles from here, for about 10 years. However the traffic in that area, near the bay bridge interchange, is so awful I don't like to even try to get there.
There's another one on the other side of the hill, a little further, but much more pleasant driving wise. I may check that one out.
*****
Post# 14155-2/22/2002-22:28 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: RE: Painted advertisements
MESSAGE: Thanks - I love old advertising on buildings. We used to have lots of it downtown, but it's mostly all gone now. At one time, I knew a website that featured some of the ads from days gone by with a section for Bendix washers, but I can't find it now.
*****
Post# 14156-2/22/2002-22:30 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: RE: Good new for vintage range hood seekers!!
MESSAGE: Thanks Todd -
I would love to have a vintage/retro looking range hood above my 58 range. Vent-a-Hood is a tremendous product too - quite a lot of hood for the money for sure.
*****
Post# 14157-2/22/2002-22:36 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: RE: My Frigidaire (Come on everybody, let's do the twist!)
MESSAGE: Less twisting and tangling too!
(Go ahead and slap me, make my day!)
*****
Post# 14158-2/22/2002-22:41 ||| appnut (Temple, TX)
SUBJECT: RE: Good new for vintage range hood seekers!!
MESSAGE: Todd thanks for the information. I've missed having you around. Hope you & your family are doing well, along with the westy twins and the KA dw.
*****
Post# 14159-2/22/2002-22:48 ||| appnut (Temple, TX)
SUBJECT: RE: My Frigidaire (1967???)
MESSAGE: Jon, I'm seriously concerned about you and the effect the flu has had on your mind. You've apparently become delirious from fever and have placed yourself in a slap-happy mode this week. Please see a docotor promptly. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.
*****
Post# 14160-2/22/2002-22:51 ||| appnut (Temple, TX)
SUBJECT: RE: Additional Miscellaneous Finds
MESSAGE: Remember Anthony, I'd volunteered to send you contraband Fab if you wanted it. If you have LaFrance in your area, we may have to start an exchange program.
*****
Post# 14161-2/22/2002-22:53 ||| appnut (Temple, TX)
SUBJECT: RE: My Frigidaire (Come on everybody, let's do the twist!)
MESSAGE: Ooooh babies, don't tempt me!!!!!!
*****
Post# 14162-2/22/2002-23:04 ||| tcox6912 (New Orleans, LA)
SUBJECT: RE: My Frigidaire (Here's a pic of it)
MESSAGE: john did have one for sale, but it was already spoken for. So, he put me in touch with Bob Salem in Ohio who had one to sell. I am told that it is in mint condition and it should be here by Wednesday. Will post a picture as soon as I can.
*****
Post# 14163-2/22/2002-23:19 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: Top Loading Built-in Westy Dishwasher (Re: Top-loading built-in Westy Dishwasher)
MESSAGE: Hi,
I know that you specifically requested information on Westy top-loading dishwashers (circa 1950-60). Unfortunately I haven't seen one of those around at all, although I am sure they were available in Australia also. The only impeller top-loader I have ever come accross here, was a 1970 (or thereabouts) Electrolux Australian-built machine many years ago, though that wasn't a slide-out built-in.
I used to own a portable full-size GE top-loader with top-hinged lid, but this machine had the telescopic tower that came out of the lower wash arm and a second smaller wash arm under the lid (not an impeller machine). I loved this machine and am very disappointed that this style of appliance is simply not built anymore. I actually consider them ergonomically superior to front-loading machines and also more hygienic as there are no nooks and crannies (such as the door seals in f-l machines), where germs can accumulate and thrive inside the tub. Loading them is also less messy, particularly with things that drip.
My maternal grandmother in the US (Brentwood, LI, NY)used to own a Kenmore top-loading dishwasher, which she had orginally purchased in 1954. This impeller machine worked without a mechanical breakdown until 1986. Only in 1984 did she have to replace the rubber-feeding hose, which had become brittle after all those years. The machine looked quite tinny and was white with a grey metal lid. The controls were situated behind the lid, on top of the appliance. The interior of the round tub was blue porcelain enamel, with a round top basket (two removable halves) that was hinged on top of a skinny tower which came up from the center. The impeller was stainless steel (I think), and dishes had to be pre-washed before placing them into the machine, since it didn't have a filtration system - only a pump to extract the water through what looked like an ordinary plug-hole. Yet, it gave my grandmother years of dependable service and it didn't do too bad a job either.
As a matter of interest Fisher and Paykel of New Zealand have a Dishdrawer dishwasher (www.fisherpaykel.com). I am not sure if these are available where you are or if you are aware of them, but you might want to check it out. I had to think of the Dishdrawer machine when I read your description of the Westinghouse top-loader. It is the only modern built-in or free-standing machine that actually gives top-loading convenience in a dishwasher, plus there are other convenience aspects which make this quite an interesting appliance.
Since I don't actually own one I am not sure how well they perform, although I have been told that the drawers are not very good in coping with dinner plates and other items that are a little larger than normal. Looking at the filtration mechanics being based on European-style technology, I would also assume that this type of machine wouldn't cope too well with solid food waste. Otherwise, I think it actually offers a real alternative to what is currently on the market.
Anyway, this is all for now, just wanted to say hi and have a yarn.
Take care
Mr-Bubbles
*****
Post# 14164-2/22/2002-23:23 ||| tcox6912 (New Orleans, LA)
SUBJECT: Bendix Washers
MESSAGE: While looking through the wanted list, I saw the Bendix Powersurge washer with disc agitator. I have never seen one like that ... what was the wash action like? Was it anything similar to that of the modern day Calypso?
*****
Post# 14165-2/22/2002-00:58 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: RE: Bendix Washers (Power-Surge Dreams)
MESSAGE: I have a 1956 Sales Facts book from Bendix that introduces the new Power-Surge washer. I'll scan it this weekend and post it for the club - what a machine this must have been! It had an "energy disc" that wobbled at 600 rpm.
"You can actually feel the energy in the water...even see the bursts of energy escaping at the surface!"
*****
Post# 14166-2/22/2002-01:57 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: "Always thought I was alone" (Thank you herr-miele)
MESSAGE: Thank you for your reply and no, I don't mind if you call me bubbles, I am easy going.
To get to your question, St George was a wholly Australian owned manufacturer specializing in excellent US style cooking appliances, for many years. Unfortunately this company, like so many others, was bought out by a bigger company called Kleenmaid (approx. 8 or so years ago I think). This Kleenmaid company specializes in importing appliances from all over the world and labelling them with their name for sale in Australia. The brands that Kleenmaid markets under its own name, are Speed Queen washers and dryers, Amana fridges, Brandt dishwashers and a number of German laundry and cooking appliances, the brand names of which I don't know.
The St George dishwasher in question was actually manufactured by another Australian company called Simpson. This particular model is completely stainless steel inside and out and was sold as a St George by Kleenmaid. Simpson does not manufacture stainless steel appliances under its own name and prior to the take-over, St George did not manufacture dishwashers(as far as I know). Anyway, this dishwasher is not available anymore, it was only a limited edition release. A number of European style cooking appliances are now marketed under the St George name by Kleenmaid, but no more dishwashers. I don't believe that there is a St George factory anymore, the only thing that exists is the name now.
The machine is typically European in desing and technology. It has two rotating stainless-steel washarms and a micro-mesh filter, nothing fancy unfortunately. It operates with two rotary controls, one for the cycle selection: i.e. rinse/hold, superwash, normal, shortwash and a separate quick-wash program for delicate items. The second control operates (on/off)the machine and provides the choice between economy (no heated drying) and normal operation (heated drying). I have the machine hooked up to my hot water supply, it reduces cycle time.
The reason I bought this machine was that I couldn't get what I wanted and it seemed a reasonable bargain. It usually sold for $1500 and was offered for $900 (end of line sale). The machine it replaced still stands in my garage, an American (1986)made GE GSD3000B16 - it served me well for 10 years and I can't bring myself to part with it.
I didn't want to replace my GE machine, but the service people responsible couldn't fix the problem it had for an acceptable price and spare parts for this machine were very difficult to come by, as not many of this model were sold in Australia. So I couldn't rapair it myself unfortunately. Plus, the repair people were not familiar with this model and during their inspection actually rendered my machine completely useless.
Anyway, this is actually another story altogether and I've got to sign off for now. I'll get back to you later.
Bye for now
Mr-Bubbles
*****
Post# 14167-2/23/2002-03:26 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: Top Loading Built-in Westy Dishwasher (Re: Top-loading built-in Westy Dishwasher)
MESSAGE: Hi Bubbles,
Thanks for the St George info, and teh description of your dishwasher.
Yumake an interesting point about top load dishwashers being more ergonomic than front load. I understand your points about lack of door seal and drip containnment, but do not understand how else they are ergonomic. I would have thought it a pain to lift out the upper basket and reach down into the lower basket.
I have never used a TL dishwasher, and here in the UK have only seen 2 types of TL dishwasher, a cheap make made for building in, 1 wash level only, and the F&P dishdrawers, which sells at a premium price here in UK, over £1000.
I am looking to buy a new DW and had looked at the F&P, but shared your concerns about large items.
*****
Post# 14168-2/23/2002-03:45 ||| appnut (Temple, TX)
SUBJECT: Today's POD 02/23/02
MESSAGE: I don't know what this ad origihnally was for--hotpoint appliances or the flooring. But the "mom" looks like she's on valium.
*****
Post# 14169-2/23/2002-05:16 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: Today's POD 02/23/02
MESSAGE: Any idea what the appliance is next to the washer and dryer, is it a dishwasher? It seems a strange location for a dishwasher, in the laundry room rather than kitchen.
*****
Post# 14170-2/23/2002-07:33 ||| angus (Fairfield, CT.)
SUBJECT: RE: Additional Miscellaneous Finds
MESSAGE: Robert - I have not forgotten your generous offer. I will let you know as soon as I have tried these exotic new formulations! We do still have LaFrance in some stores here, but I must say I am seeing it in fewer and fewer stores. The Purex or Dial websites do offer LaFrance by mail though, along with Fels Naptha bars - in a section called "Hard to Find Items".....
*****
Post# 14171-2/23/2002-07:38 ||| angus (Fairfield, CT.)
SUBJECT: RE: Bendix Washers
MESSAGE: I don't know about the Bendix Powersurge disc being like the Calypso, but the Philco Bendix Miss America line, along with the Automagic, etc.. had a similar type of agitation as the Calypso. From a 1963 ad for Philco and Tide, I believe the technical term Philco used was (and it WAS patented) "undertow agitation". The description indicated that it "pulled clothes in and down, round and round". In later models, Philco, who ultimately dropped the Bendix name, referred to it as the "flex-a-wash" system with the agitator providing "blades of water" action. It was actually quite effective and gentle at the same time. Of course, I imagine if you overloaded the machine, it didn't do a whole lot....
*****
Post# 14172-2/23/2002-07:40 ||| angus (Fairfield, CT.)
SUBJECT: RE: Bendix Washers (Power-Surge Dreams)
MESSAGE: Greg - kind of like the later Philco claims that the "agitator blades are made of water"..... oh for a "Miss America" or Custom Imperial................
*****
Post# 14173-2/23/2002-07:41 ||| angus (Fairfield, CT.)
SUBJECT: RE: Today's POD 02/23/02
MESSAGE: So do the kids....very "pre Stepford"..........
*****
Post# 14174-2/23/2002-08:37 ||| JasonL (New Orleans, LA)
SUBJECT: RE: Today's POD 02/23/02 (Brilliant!!!!!!!)
MESSAGE: Welcome back to the 60s. We hope you enjoy your stay. Do to take to browse our 8 track collection. The new Herb Alpert tape sounds wonderful. Don't forget to see the new Hotpoint appliances. If you need any assistance, the young lady in the kitchen has valium (among other things ;-) to help you along.
*****
Post# 14175-2/23/2002-08:49 ||| jasonl (New Orleans, LA)
SUBJECT: RE: Today's POD 02/23/02 (???)
MESSAGE: Here's a newbie question. What is "Pre-Stepford"?
*****
Post# 14176-2/23/2002-09:00 ||| laundromat (florida)
SUBJECT: Who's making GE Washers
MESSAGE: I noticed a few of you on that stuck up owner's websight(www.thathomesight.com)talking about Ge washers.As far as the "AMayna"is concerned,Maytag bought Amana after they(Amana)agreed to make a stainless steel tub washer and dryer for GE.They only made a couple thousand and I have seen more of them at Home Depot than anywhere else.Sears has the Maytag model but the dryer has a painted interior instead of a ss like the GE.The new GE washers have a differnt tub that is plastic but has large arms molded into it (I guess they're for "scrub board effect?????)that look horrible and seam to take away some of the capacity.
*****
Post# 14177-2/23/2002-09:10 ||| laundromat (florida)
SUBJECT: Who's making GE Washers
MESSAGE: I noticed a few of you on that stuck up owner's websight(www.thathomesight.com)talking about Ge washers.As far as the "AMayna"is concerned,Maytag bought Amana after they(Amana)agreed to make a stainless steel tub washer and dryer for GE.They only made a couple thousand and I have seen more of them at Home Depot than anywhere else.Sears has the Maytag model but the dryer has a painted interior instead of a ss like the GE.The new GE washers have a differnt tub that is plastic but has large arms molded into it (I guess they're for "scrub board effect?????)that look horrible and seam to take away some of the capacity.I don't go there (THS)anymore because the Webmaster and I had a fallout about my personal opinions on the Neptunes and Frigemores.
*****
Post# 14178-2/23/2002-09:19 ||| laundromat (florida)
SUBJECT: "AMayna"
MESSAGE: There will be some serious changes coming since Maytag bought Amana including the ranges,dishwashers and refrigerators.So far,the new Amana dishwashers are like the Performa line.Some of the new ranges of Maytag's will be coming from the Amana factory.There is a rumor going around that the Neptune stacked will become stackable or undercounter and be made like the Speed Queen commercial models.And yes,it has a window.Maytag will have a bottom freezer line available and may drop the Norge line completely to use the Amana laundry line to make the "Atlantis"line more attractive in looks and features.
*****
Post# 14179-2/23/2002-09:20 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: RE: Today's POD 02/23/02
MESSAGE: I believe that would be an undercounter water heater.
*****
Post# 14180-2/23/2002-11:09 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: RE: Newsflash: That 70's Miele washer (second load)
MESSAGE: Today the Miele arrived and I'm very much in love! It's not a real beauty, since the enamel on the front has fone yellow (Dadoes!), but for the rest it's a wonderful washer. I will take pictures soon, but I only have a traditional camera, it will take some time to show them to you. I have done two loads now, first one was a delicate cycle, 30C or 85F with a cushon from a chair , second was a heavy bathrobe and two towels on the regular cycle, 60C or 140F. It makes lots of noises, the timer is noisy, except when it's turning. It also bangs a lot since the drum is not secured to the axis, but loose on it so you can take the drum out. It is on casters only so it shakes a little back and forward now and then. In the bottom of the outer tub are the heating element and the lintfilter. If you take the drum out you can remove the filter for cleaning. There was some calcium buildup, but not severe. The hose is leaking though and needs to be replaced. For the rest it is working like a charm. Very basic machine, but will built. The negative side of these machines were ofcourse the lack of spincycles between rinses and at the end. It makes up for the lack of spincycles between rinses with 6 (!) rinses on high level (almost up to the axis). Have to go now, I have to put the bathrobe in the centrifuge.
Louis
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Post# 14181-2/23/2002-11:37 ||| angus (Fairfield, CT.)
SUBJECT: RE: Today's POD 02/23/02 (???)
MESSAGE: There was a movie sometime in the early 1970's called the Stepford Wives. Set in fictional Stepford, CT., the good young wives of the town were secretly invaded and turned into clones of perfection - - hair, looks, housekeeping etc..., but they became vacant,emotionless robots. I guess I am dating myself with that reference!!
*****
Post# 14182-2/23/2002-11:54 ||| peteski50 (New York)
SUBJECT: RE: Today's POD 02/23/02 (POD)
MESSAGE: I think it maybe a freezer
*****
Post# 14183-2/23/2002-12:07 ||| joeekaitis (Rialto, California, USA)
SUBJECT: RE: Today's POD 02/23/02
MESSAGE: And doesn't she know the CorningWare ElectroMatic coffeemaker has been recalled?
Nothing like having the carafe detach from the handle when it's full of scalding hot coffee. :)
*****
Post# 14184-2/23/2002-12:16 ||| PeterH770 (Atlanta, GA)
SUBJECT: RE: My Frigidaire (1967???)
MESSAGE: I do have one like that in the pic, but I haven't tested it yet. I've been told it needs a new agitate arm, and something in it is blowing fuses. Mine is only the normal/gentle WCD model without an overflow light. I won't say it's better than a Unimatic, because the 1-18 is!
-ducking in ATL
*****
Post# 14185-2/23/2002-12:48 ||| DADoES (El Campo, TX)
SUBJECT: RE: Today's POD 02/23/02
MESSAGE: Water heater, yes, most likely.
These are Hotpoint, confirmed? They also look a bit like Easy.
What are all the smaller knobs on the washer? Interesting how the middle pair are set off with the different background, and the dryer doesn't have that design.
*****
Post# 14186-2/23/2002-13:19 ||| washrfreak (Dallas)
SUBJECT: RE: Today's POD 02/23/02
MESSAGE: I don't think it is a dishwasher. If it were, I would say it's one from the future - tall tub, electronic control. My bet is that it's a water heater. Also, I'm not sure that she ISN'T in the kitchen -- there is a coffee pot and a canister set.
*****
Post# 14187-2/23/2002-13:21 ||| washrfreak (Dallas)
SUBJECT: RE: Bendix Washers (blades of water)
MESSAGE: "blades of water" sound like a horrible slogan for a clothes washer. I would expect to see a "wash-n-tear" cycle.
*****
Post# 14188-2/23/2002-13:23 ||| washrfreak (Dallas)
SUBJECT: RE: Today's POD 02/23/02 (???)
MESSAGE: Oh my... I feel so old now...
I'll go get my shawl...
*****
Post# 14189-2/23/2002-13:43 ||| peteski50 (New York)
SUBJECT: RE: Today's POD 02/23/02 (POD)
MESSAGE: I have the same coffee pot. It makes the best coffee. I don't use it much unless people come over. But I do perfer to perk my coffee as opposed to a drip coffee. I generally use my Farbaware 4 cuper or perk on the stove - (now thats good coffee)
Peter
*****
Post# 14190-2/23/2002-15:37 ||| earthling177 (Boston, MA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Synchronous motors)
MESSAGE: Rich said: "Thanks for that lucide explanation of synchronicity, Paulo :-). "
Oh, don't mention it! :-)
"How can a motor be DC and still use alternating current?"
Because historically, things are named for what people thought were interesting at the time. Induction motors, for example, are rarely called in the trade "assynchronous motors", which is what they are. It's not interesting to tell everyone you are using a complicated inverter to supply pulses to essentially an induction motor when the inverter and associated solid-state electronics are cheap and easy -- but the fact it would take DC and make a brushless motor work was deemed importand, hence "brushless-DC motor". To the point that people don't even seem bothered to classify stepping motors as AC, DC, synchronous etc... its most interesting feature is reliably moving a certain angle every single time.
Similarly, when DC was common and it went without saying that electric motors were fed DC current, it seemed interesting and appropriate to say that synchronous motors were AC motors, because one of the components (stator) took AC. The fact that all but the smallest synchronous motors *also* had to be fed DC current at the rotor was banal enough that nobody made a big deal of it, even when, a couple of decades later, having DC around might mean having an AC motor running a DC generator (rectifiers meant vaccum tubes at that time, solid state was too expensive for anything larger than a couple of kW) to make the "AC synchronous motor" work.
We can take this as far as we want. Generators are taken to generate DC. If it generates AC it's an "alternator". "Universal" motors work in AC/DC, sorta: anything past a couple of kW and it won't work in AC, it will just be a series motor that can only work in DC; to be fair, "universal" motors are very inefficient in AC, with lots of sparks and reduced power, but it worked well enough for people to get past the point where we had "standard" AC with either 50 or 60Hz and the manufacturers didn't have to worry about making too many different kinds of motors. Series motors are still prized for the small weight for a given power, and they end up in places where efficiency is not at a premium, but size/weight is: portable mixers, blenders, vacuum cleaners etc, even though it's hard to regulate their speed reliably.
*****
Post# 14191-2/23/2002-15:48 ||| earthling177 (Boston, MA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (motors - DC and synchronous)
MESSAGE: Chris, induction motors "slip" and while their speed is somewhat linked to the line frequency, the speed can vary with the load. Those are often called "assynchronous motors" in different languages, and "induction motor" is just a more lay term.
Synchronous motors tend to stop when they slip out of sync and it's not a good idea to just connect a load directly to them without a clutch for that very reason. Today, with computer-controlled inverters it's relatively easy to get fuzzy logic to just match the frequency to the current speed and accelerate the motor to full speed from a rest state. On the other hand, it's usually easier to just use another simpler motor like induction or stepping motor to do the same thing, so sync motors are very rare now.
As to the motors used in washers, I was used to seeing multi-speed induction motors (multi pole windings, just like you say) and it was surprising to me that some machines bother to get AC to DC and then try to control a DC motor with computers instead of just inverting the current and supplying it to stepping motors or standard AC motors.
*****
Post# 14192-2/23/2002-15:54 ||| earthling177 (Boston, MA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (motors - DC and synchronous)
MESSAGE: Rich, like I said before, Maytag mentions (or at least used to at the Neptune introduction) that it uses a 3-phase (triphasic) motor feed different frequencies for different speeds in the Neptune.
The description you typed can, without more details, either be applied to a standard 3-phase induction motor, or something closer to a stepping motor.
Their advertising copy and press release used to mention a computer-controlled board that would check the various machine states, motor speed and inverter frequency to drive the motor.
*****
Post# 14193-2/23/2002-16:40 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (In Brazilian for Paulo)
MESSAGE: "O motor de movimentação é um motor comutado do tipo da relutância. O princípio operando-se básico do motor comutado da relutância é atração magnética direta entre os cois eletromagnéticos estacionários (estator) e um rotor ou uma armadura especialmente configurarada. O rotor é compreendido das placas ou das laminações empilhadas montadas em um eixo center. A forma destas laminações é característica do motor comutado da relutância. O rotor, quando visto da extremidade do rotor, tem os dentes bem como uma engrenagem. Estes " dentes ", ou o pólo remenda, são puxados enquanto o resultado da potência da corrente direta através do estator bobina. "
"As bobinas múltiplas do estator são posicionadas em torno do rotor e conectadas em três " jogos phased diferentes " de bobinas emparelhadas. A atração magnética causa os pólos do rotor à volta para as bobinas. A placa de controle eletrônica do motor desliga o campo magnético enquanto a parte do pólo do rotor se aproxima; então, gira sobre um outro jogo das bobinas mais adicional adiante. É esta ação do switching de fases do motor que determina o sentido e a velocidade rotatória do rotor (e do eixo). **time-out** motor controle placa mud 120 VAC tensão linha input 170 VDC, e distribu atual fase estator bobina jogo seqüência movimentação motor "
"Motor controle placa receb 120 VAC tensão linha cabo e distribu C.C. tensão movimentação motor. O controle do motor converte a tensão da fase monofásica à fase 3 para o motor de movimentação. "
*****
Post# 14194-2/23/2002-17:31 ||| angus (Fairfield, CT.)
SUBJECT: RE: Bendix Washers (blades of water)
MESSAGE: Actually I think it was supposed to sound gentler - (i.e that instead of the agitator blades doing the cleaning which could be deemed harsh on your clothes, the agitator blades were "made of water" which gave the impression that the action was indeed gentler. I guess if that failed they could offer a "Permanent Distress" cycle......
I did eventually look at the Bendix picture in the "Wanted" section, and that "energy disc" does indeed look like the Calypso. Different from later incarnations of the Philco Bendixes (or is that Bendices??)in that the wavy rubber wash plate was attached to a traditional agitator shaft. The movement though was sort of the same as the old Bendix....
*****
Post# 14195-2/23/2002-17:32 ||| angus (Fairfield, CT.)
SUBJECT: RE: Today's POD 02/23/02 (POD)
MESSAGE: I still use my glass Pyrex percolator. Can't find THOSE anymore........
*****
Post# 14196-2/23/2002-18:00 ||| cycla-fabric (New Jersey)
SUBJECT: RE: Eagerbeaver 1955 Kenmores (Lid Opens?)
MESSAGE: They open to the back, and if I get this blasted scanner to work I will scan the two pages of the machine in
*****
Post# 14197-2/23/2002-18:34 ||| gizmo (Great Ocean Road, Victoria, Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (motors - DC and synchronous)
MESSAGE: I think, no guarantees mind, that that is gobbledegook for a stepper motor. The Maytag description sounds like a stepper motor.
My description of the stepper motor as a disc is how the F&P is laid out, and how the HDD and FDD in a computer work. The permanent magnets can be arranged on a disc, or around a shaft giving a more comventional motor appearance. The previous F&P to the Smart Drive had the wonderful name of the Gentle Annie, and Gentle Annies used this type of drive. A seperate stepper motor was mounted under the drum, belt drive to a pulley which drives the agitator direct. The motor reverses direction very fast, giving a "normal" agitator action, with different programs giving wider/smaller arc and faster/slower action. Interestingly the action changes with the water level, to prevent damage or splashing with smaller loads. Spin is achieved simply - the agitator shaft goes up inside the hollow spin shaft. The spin shaft has its own pulley, which sits about half an inch above the agitator pulley. There is a finger protruding slightly below the spin pulley and a matching finger protruding above the agitator pulley. On wash the arc is less than 360 degrees, so the fingers rarely meet. On spin, the motor simply continues driving the agitator in one direction. The fingers "collide" and the agitator pulley now drives the spin pulley through the finger. Brutally simple. My mother has a Gentle Annie which I made up for her out of two dead ones, it has worked faultlessly for several years now. The quality of construction has to be seen to be believed. Unfortunately the electronics use a set of transistors or fets which I believe are no longer obtainable.
Chris.
*****
Post# 14198-2/23/2002-19:13 ||| frigemore (Chicago IL area)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Is "
Brazilian"
a Language???)
MESSAGE: Will someone gifted in the Language Arts please clarify?? I thought it was just plain Portuguese or Spanish ???
*****
Post# 14199-2/23/2002-19:26 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: Top Loading Built-in Westy Dishwasher (Reply to post 14167)
MESSAGE: Hi Herr-Miele,
Regarding your point of having to lift out the top basket in top-loading dishwashers, the only machine where I have seen this was my grandmother's 1954 Kenmore (post #14163). There I agree that this made loading the machine more cumbersome.
The top-loading GE machine that I owned had two top baskets suspended from the lid, so when you opened it they were raised out of the machine, bringing them up to sink level. To load the bottom basket one didn't have to bend over as much as with conventional front-loaders and to load the upper baskets required no bending at all. Plus the top-baskets were still situated above the machine's tub so that any spills didn't end up on the kitchen floor.
There were numerous top-loading models available in Australia prior to the 1980's. None of the ones that I have seen, whether impeller or spray arm models, had to have baskets lifted out manually.
I also agree with you that the F&P Dishdrawer is a little expensive. Its been out over here for a number of years now and hasn't dropped in price (single drawer costs as much as a normal front loading machine, approx. $800 I think, both drawers together over $1500). A thousand pounds sounds a little excessive especially since the machine doesn't have a built-in hard food waste disposer and soil sensing. Apart from the overall design being different to your average front-loading machine, the actual wash technology applied is very basic. As I mentioned in my other post, I don't think this machine would be able to handle solid food waste like corn kernels, peas and potato bits etc., also I think that once a drawer has been loaded full of large dinner plates the tynes can't be folded out properly to accomodate cups and glassware.
I do like the concept of the dishdrawer, but it will need some serious re-designing and pricing that is a little more realistic.
*****
Post# 14200-2/23/2002-20:00 ||| Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: Sue You're Spraying Stars On That Blouse!!
MESSAGE: While a spray starch might be stretching it for a vintage washing machine additive, this '65 Faultless Spray Starch commercial was too campy not to be included in our library. It's now located at the bottom of the detergent/additive section of the "Vintage Appliance Video" library, you can access the library from the home page.
And it works on Modern Fabrics too!
*****
Post# 14201-2/23/2002-20:02 ||| Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: Today's POD 02/23/02
MESSAGE: Either that or maybe it's a little refrigerator or freezer?
*****
Post# 14202-2/23/2002-20:04 ||| Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: Today's POD 02/23/02
MESSAGE: I think you're right Glenn, I would place my bet that those are Easy.
*****
Post# 14203-2/23/2002-20:06 ||| Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: Eagerbeaver 1955 Kenmores (Lid Opens?)
MESSAGE: That's what I had suspected. Eagerbeaver Kenmore washer lid opens to the left, which makes her's a '57 model.
*****
Post# 14204-2/23/2002-20:17 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Switched Reluctance Motors)
MESSAGE: Well Gizmo, you are right, it is a stepper type of motor, but it doesn't have permanent magnets. In fact, the lack of permanent magnets would appear to be essential to the design of a stepper motor. (The big magnets you see in a modern disk drive are for the voice coils for the head stack assembly.)
Here's a good discussion of variable switched reluctance motors:
LINK: http://www.memagazine.org/backissues/february98/features/risevsr/risevsr.html
*****
Post# 14205-2/23/2002-20:21 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: Sue You're Spraying Stars On That Blouse!!
MESSAGE: What a coincidence! I just got through playing hooky from my garden chores by watching "There Goes The Neighborhood" on Comedy Channel. In this movie, Catherine O'Hara temporarily incapacitates Jeff Daniels with a can of spray starch. I'm not sure why, but he acts like it's a painful experience to have starch sprayed in one's eyes and mouth.
*****
Post# 14206-2/23/2002-20:26 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: "Always thought I was alone" (Reply to post # 14137 - foraloysius)
MESSAGE: Hi foraloysius,
Thanks for message and hello to you also.
Regarding your question about the old 1967 Siemens top-loading washer, it was a non-spinning compact portable machine, which my mother used in conjunction with a separate(Bauknecht?)centrifuge. It's been a while and my memory has become a little foggy.
Anyway, the washer was a horizontal (I prefer to call them tumble washers) axis machine with a removable drum and detergent dispenser. It had all the fabric care programs of the time (i.e.: each program heated the water to a particular temperature, e.g. linen at 90 degrees C (194 F), colorfasts 60 C (140 F) delicate care items at either 30 or 40 C (86 or 104 F) and so on). The controls were top mounted behind the lid, but not raised. As with all European machines, all cycles took absolutely forever. The linen cycle used to last for over two hours and the shortest would have been the 45 minute 30 degree cycle.
Yet, this was moms very first machine ever and it made life a hell of a lot easier for her. Before we got this machine, my mother used to wash clothes the old-fashioned way (copper and wooden tubs, wash board etc.) and laundering used to take between two to three days and took place twice a month. Occasionally when she had a little extra cash, she would take our washing to the then fully serviced Miele Laundromat, which was a 20 minute walk from home. She would pack my old pram to wheel the full washing basket down the road and hand it over to the attendant. They would load and unload the machines for her and mom was able to either sit and read a mag or do a spot of shopping. We never had our clothes machine dried though (not in the budget then). Mom used to span a cloth over the clean clothes and walk them home, as heavy as they were. Then she'd carry the basket eight flights of stairs (we lived in an inner city apartment building then), to hang them up under the roof.
I remember the big old cast-iron mangle with two gigantic wooden cylinders that was placed in the loft for all tenants to use. Mom would mangle all our sheets and pillow cases up there and I used to dare myself to put my hands as close as possible to the revolving cylinders, without mom catching me out.
I also remember that our first iron had actually belonged to my grandmother and dated back to the 1940's. It didn't have a temperature control and clothes used to have to be sprinkled with water before ironing could begin.
Anyway, just thought I share this with you.
Got to go now - so take care till next time.
Regards
Mr-Bubbles
*****
Post# 14207-2/23/2002-20:34 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: RE: Today's POD 02/23/02 (Hotpoint )
MESSAGE: I have a 1970 ad with a similar panel washer and dryer from Hotpoint - this may have been a year or so earlier than what I have. Probably the 14lb tub, 4 speed model - may have even been one of the first years of the "two tub" washers. You can also tell by the dryer door and washer cabinet style it's a Hotpoint.
*****
Post# 14208-2/23/2002-20:36 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: RE: Today's POD 02/23/02 (Hotpoint )
MESSAGE: Here's a similar panel design in Pumper's graveyard photos.
LINK: http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/ringtail59/vwp?.dir=/Graveyard&.src=ph&.dnm=Image020.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/bc/ringtail59/lst%3f%26.dir=/Graveyard%26.src=ph%26.view=t
*****
Post# 14209-2/23/2002-20:45 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: RE: Sue You're Spraying Stars On That Blouse!!
MESSAGE: "A star soft shield of clean-ness" Fabulous commercial!!
*****
Post# 14210-2/23/2002-20:47 ||| Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: Today's POD 02/23/02 (Hotpoint )
MESSAGE: True, but Easy used the exact same cabinet and control panel shape in the late 60's as Hotpoint. I don't know what it is, but something says Easy to me about that picture. Maybe the lack of push buttons.
*****
Post# 14211-2/23/2002-21:31 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: RE: Today's POD 02/23/02 (Hotpoint )
MESSAGE: Was there relation between Hotpoint and Easy?
*****
Post# 14212-2/23/2002-21:44 ||| scott55405 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: Today's POD 02/23/02 (???)
MESSAGE: hmmm...I think I have run into more than a few of those in my time, LOL.
*****
Post# 14213-2/23/2002-21:45 ||| scott55405 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: Today's POD 02/23/02
MESSAGE: I have one of those, and love it! I hope it never comes apart like that!
*****
Post# 14214-2/23/2002-21:48 ||| scott55405 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: Today's POD 02/23/02 (POD)
MESSAGE: I'm with you Peter, percolators all the way, or else Coffeemasters! I use my Corning only occasionally and have a couple of the illuminated see through glass ones which I love, and I have several Farberware ones, one of which I use for everyday.
*****
Post# 14215-2/23/2002-22:15 ||| HQOTS (Florida)
SUBJECT: RE: Today's POD 02/23/02
MESSAGE: Mine makes 2-3 pots a day and is doing just fine.
*****
Post# 14216-2/23/2002-22:45 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: New 1956 Bendix Laundry Sales Facts
MESSAGE: Here are the scans of the 56 Bendix Power-Surge washer.
LINK: http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/powersurge600/vwp?.dir=/Bendix+Powersurge+Facts&.src=ph&.dnm=PS+1.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/bc/powersurge600/lst%3f%26.dir=/Bendix%2bPowersurge%2bFacts%26.src=ph%26.view=t
*****
Post# 14217-2/23/2002-00:34 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: Today's POD 02/23/02 (Perc vs. Drip vs. Espresso)
MESSAGE: Just wondering... what do people find preferable about perc, as opposed to drip, coffee? Is it the whole "perc" experience, which I admit is visually hypnotic and quite delightful to listen to? Is it the flavor? The freedom from that nasty empty gutteral snarl that most automatic drip coffee makers (save for Bunn) make as they finish the brewing? Or is it because the perc method is more retro?
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Post# 14218-2/23/2002-01:06 ||| scott55405 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: Today's POD 02/23/02 (Perc vs. Drip vs. Espresso)
MESSAGE: It's the flavor and the body of the coffee, firstly and most definitely, though the other factors you mention certainly play into it.
I don't care if you put the whole can of coffee up in there, drip coffee still tastes like hot water to me. Instant coffee tastes better to me than most drip coffee. My personal opinion is that the not hot enough water pouring only once through the coffee and into the container below is simply not enough to draw the flavor from the coffee, and you end up with a very bland cup. Admittedly I do like my coffee black and very strong and perhaps someone who doesn't like theirs as strong may not experience this. This may be owing to my growing up in a home with percolated coffee and a pot being on at all times, it's possible that coffee that some may consider overly processed is what naturally tastes good to me.
The other things I don't like is I never seem to be able to pour cleanly from one of those carafes, I end up with coffee on the counter every time. I also find it annoying when residual water from the coffee holder above drips down onto the warming plate while you're pouring, making a burnt coffee smelly mess.
I think I find the Coffeemaster (vacuum type) brewers acceptable because the water rises up into the coffee chamber, mixes with the coffee and stays there for a bit, returning slowly back to the lower pot, thus drawing more flavor from the coffee, even though it passes through only once.
*****
Post# 14219-2/23/2002-01:28 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: Today's POD 02/23/02 (Perc vs. Drip vs. Espresso)
MESSAGE: Hmmm. Interesting!
I've never brewed coffee in a percolator, although of course I remember my Mom brewing it that way in the 50's and 60's. By the time I started drinking coffee, mid-70's, perc was "out" and drip was "in".
For strong coffee, espresso is the ticket...
*****
Post# 14220-2/23/2002-01:42 ||| austinado16 (San Luis Obispo, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: Good new for vintage range hood seekers!!
MESSAGE: Hi Bob,
Everybody is doing fine and the all the machines are well too. How have you been?
Hi Greg,
Let me know what size hood you need. So far I've been contacted by 2 others. One needs a 36" and one needs a 42". Plus I need a 42" to go over the Wedgewood. It would be cool to get an original one. Their technical advisor, Bob Norris, says they haven't changed the design of the fan system much in 60+ years, just keep refining it.
Todd
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Post# 14221-2/24/2002-02:21 ||| washrfreak (Dallas)
SUBJECT: RE: New 1956 Bendix Laundry Sales Facts
MESSAGE: Looks like a cool washer. It does look very much like the Calypso with a full tub of water. And 660 rpm - i think that's faster than the Calypso. Bet it was a sight to see (but can you imagine a modern ad suggesting you stick your hand in a running washer?).
It's amazing how few new ideas there really are. Apparently ATC is even old.
*****
Post# 14222-2/24/2002-03:32 ||| DADoES (El Campo, TX)
SUBJECT: POD 2/24
MESSAGE: Those bear a vague resemblance to Blackstone around 1960.
*****
Post# 14223-2/24/2002-04:08 ||| arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (RIP the Aussie Hoover)
MESSAGE: It is such a shame that the Hoover Front loader is no longer made here. The front loader and vacuum lines were the first things to go when Email bought Hoover. Stupid company.
WIth front loaders increasingly taking a bigger share of the market it seems ridiculous that we dont produce our own front loader.
The Hoover machine wasnt a Miele or anything but it had a reasonble range of features and didnt take 3 hours to wash either.
*****
Post# 14224-2/24/2002-06:33 ||| angus (Fairfield, CT.)
SUBJECT: RE: Today's POD 02/23/02 (???)
MESSAGE: They still exist here - only they are all blonde, drive the biggest SUV's imaginable and talk incessantly on cell phones while driving........
*****
Post# 14225-2/24/2002-08:39 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (reply to post 14223 - arrrooohhh)
MESSAGE: G'day arrrooohhh,
Well, the fact is that our appliance industry is crap anyway. 20 years ago there were almost as many whitegoods companies in Oz. Now there are only 2. Hoover is actually Electrolux, Whirlpool disappeared during the eighties and came back in the 90's with mainly imported European products, GE pi**ed off altogether existing by name only and variety is no more. Walk into any appliance store and all you see is Euro-style this and that, all very uniform products where it really doesn't matter what brand name is on anything anymore.
I reckon in the next ten years nothing will be made here anyway. I hope I am wrong, but things sure seem to be heading in that direction. Its just another benefit of globalization, where brandnames mean nothing and the people running companies aren't interested in what the company makes, but how they can perform better on the share market (e.g. Southcorp are now in the wine business full-time).
When I look at appliances now, all I see is stuff that is designed by overpaid yuppies who don't really do their own washing, cleaning or cooking, because they are too busy designing away on stuff that has more value as a status symbol rather than any useful and practical application. Take those European front-loading washers for example, they cost an absolute fortune to buy, come with 30 or 40 program options, (most people haven't even got that many clothes), small capacity and one has to operate these machines kneeling on a cold tile or concrete floor (how sophisticated is that). Same with dishwashers, European is all one gets here now - even though dishwashing technology in the US is eons ahead of anything that comes out of Europe, but I suppose we Aussies aren't ready yet for dishwashers that actually wash dishes. Cooking appliances too, everywhere one looks its European this and that, as if that European underbench oven with the tiny 30 inch cook top represents the apex of development in that area. Its as if the appliance industry here assumes that all Australians live in caravans or bedsits and can't afford the generously sized designs we used to have. The other thing I absolutely hate is the placement of controls at pelvic level. Firstly I don't see too well with my navel and little kids do get curious about buttons that can be reached and played with.
My gripe is that when I go to Whirlpool (being a US company) for example, I don't want to look at products made in Germany, Italy, Belgium or France. The same applies to Hoover and Simpson, if I wanted European I would buy ASKO, Miele, Smeg or whatever - I want real choice.
Anyway, I'm getting off my soap box now so relax and take care till next time.
Bye for now
Mr-Bubbles
Well anyway, enough said for now.
Take care
Mr-Bubbles
*****
Post# 14226-2/24/2002-08:51 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: Why are there no posts prior to #14200?
MESSAGE: Suddenly there is a big chunk of posts missing from this page and they are not in the archives either.
Anyone know what's going on?
*****
Post# 14227-2/24/2002-09:26 ||| robbytuck (Sioux Falls, SD)
SUBJECT: RE: Top Loading Built-in Westy Dishwasher (Westinghouse Top Loading Dishwasher)
MESSAGE: Fanfare
I do, indeed, remember these machines. My Aunt ( who always had the latest and greatest of everything...including the first Bendix washer/dryer combo) had a Westinghouse dishwasher. This must have been about 1958 or 1959. Additonally, when I first met my former wife (we were in high school) in 1962, her mom had one of these machines in sunny yellow to match the under counter Westinghouse washer and dryer in her kitchen.
They did do a good job for an impeller machine. I remember helping to do dishes one evening. I didn't believe (and still don't) in rinsing before putting the dishes in the machine. I was curious how the Westinghouse would stack up against my mom's RCA Whirlpool top load portable (with single wash arm). I hung around until the machine was finished and help unload it. All of the dishes, pots and pans came out clean. There was a little residue on one or two of the glasses but everything else was clean. In retrospect, I believe that if there had been a pre-rinse and two washes, the glasses probably would have been clean.
While probably not as flexible to load as my Mom's Whirlpool, the machine was quiet and did a good job.
Bob
*****
Post# 14228-2/24/2002-10:07 ||| magic clean (Florida)
SUBJECT: GE to introduce a new washer. Renewed focus & emphasis on appliances
MESSAGE: From the 2/21/02 Louisville Courier Journal...by David Mcginty.
General Electric Co. will unveil a new clothes washer today that is the early result of a company plan to spend $800 million on developing new appliances over the next three years, in Louisville and elsewhere. Terry Dunn, a spokesman at GE's Appliance Park in Louisville, said the company intends to dramatically ramp up its release of new appliances, with at goal of introducing 270 through 2004.
The 800 million investment prediction includes money spent for developing and testing new technologies and incorporating them into new appliances, as well as money for marketing and equipment to produce the new products.
GE's worldwide research and development headquarters for appliances is at Appliance Park. But it is too soon to say how much of the money will be spent here, and whether the new products might result in investments in new production lines here, Dunn said.
GE is in the midst of a campaign to give a major boost to its appliance business. In the past three years, it has spent $1 billion to develop and produce new products, Dunn said, and in 2000 and 2001 introduced 130 products. From 1996 through 1999, it introduced 20. In aiming to create another 270 products in the next few years, the company is signaling that its appliance business, although a relatively low-profit one, is not likely to languish under new Chairman Jeffrey Immelt. He has said the appliance business is such a tough one that it's a good training ground for GE management. (He managed GE Appliances Consumer Services during the 1980's)
The clothes washer to be unveiled will have new time-saving and energy efficiency features and is part of a company push to greatly accelerate its development and introduction of new products in the next three years.
GE will also introduce a Braille overlay that can be fitted to the control panel of its electronic washers and dryers, to make them easier for the blind to use.
Among other products the company is working to bring to market, Dunn said, are "some revolutionary cooking products."
General Electric Co. shares finsihed trading on the New York Stock Exchange yesterday at $37.57, up $1.17.
*****
Post# 14229-2/24/2002-10:10 ||| PeterH770 (Atlanta, GA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Portuguese in Brazil)
MESSAGE: Brazil is a Portuguese speaking country...
-ph
*****
Post# 14230-2/24/2002-10:25 ||| peteski50 (New York)
SUBJECT: RE: New 1956 Bendix Laundry Sales Facts (Power Serge)
MESSAGE: I think this is a awsome washer. I had saw pictures before of it, but have not read about it in such detail. Was it considered a solid tub even with the performations? Seems like it had great action & would make a good find. I don't think they made it that long. Anyone have any real experience with the washer.
Peter
*****
Post# 14231-2/24/2002-10:34 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (reply to post 14223 - arrrooohhh)
MESSAGE: While we are still manufacturing appliances in this country, it is quite clear from a short walk down the appliance aisle at any retailer that we have little to show for our efforts over here either. With a scant few exceptions, there have been only backward steps in the areas of quality and workmanship in the appliance industry over the last 50 years. The quest to build them faster, cheaper and more profitably has led to the introduction of such crap in the marketplace, it's hard if not impossible for the average consumer to walk into an appliance store and discern good from bad. In today's dollars, by comparison, a top of the line washer and dryer in the 1950's would cost nearly $2000 today. We cannot blame the manufacturers entirely for the decline in choices, quality, etc. as the consumer and shareholder demands drive the engines of design and manufacturing. As long as the notion exists of being able to purchase a washer and dryer set (or other appliances) for less than $1000, we will continue to see the same products on display that we do now. Sears will always offer a washing machine at the $288 price point, delivered, installed and for a nominal fee, will haul away your 8-10 year old unit to be deposited in our already overflowing land fills as long as people keep lining up to buy them.
With the out-sourcing we've seen from GE in the last couple of years, we may (blessedly) see their appliance manufacturing operations scaled back considerably. Whirlpool, Maytag and Electrolux have brought new life to the laundry markets in the last few years, but it will still be hard to convince consumers to spend two or more times the money on laundry appliances than what they did 10 years ago. We may see improvement when new government energy mandates go into effect, but my fear is that we'll see more $300 washers with only warm or cold wash options and the dreaded spray rinse replacing a deep agitated rinse to meet the energy requirements in a top-load washer. Even then, we'll have those machines still spinning at 600 rpm so the bulk of our energy will still be wasted on tumbling clothes for 45 minutes or more to get them dry. Will anyone even notice?
This is progress??
*****
Post# 14232-2/24/2002-10:44 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: RE: GE to introduce a new washer. Renewed focus & emphasis on appliances
MESSAGE: Well, 270 new products? Quite an ambitious undertaking from the leader of bad quality! What exactly counts as a new product? Improvement on an old design, new knobs or cycles, or a whole new "from the ground up" design...
Can we expect our "spray rinse washer" sooner?
Thanks for the article Leslie - good to see you!
*****
Post# 14233-2/24/2002-11:47 ||| Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: ABC-O-Matic Wing Is Now Open!!
MESSAGE: I just completed working on getting the ABC-O-Matic Wing of our Classic Appliance Cyber Museum open. Of course Jetcone needs to submit his beautiful ABC's to the museum too, but this will be a good start. All new pictures and LOTS of ABC-O-Matic Splash-O-Rama Videos to watch.
Enjoy everyone. You can acess the Appliance Cyber Museum from the home page.
*****
Post# 14234-2/24/2002-12:06 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: RE: "Always thought I was alone" (Reply to post # 14137 - foraloysius)
MESSAGE: Hi Bubbles,
I love those machines, the Miele I just bought is the same kind of machine. I know the Siemens you describe, a cousin of mine had one like that. The later models had a separate control for the temperature. They are very nice machines to play with, you can pull the drum out and you have to do more than with a full automatic one. If you like playing with water they are absolutely wonderful.
A friend's father had a Miele laundromat for a while and I loved being there. He employed a young woman to run the shop but she had sometimes errands to do so she asked my friend and me to watch the laundromat. I loved it. Loading and emptying the washers, using the centrifuges and putting things in the dryers. I still remember the Mieles 707 that were used there.
Did you ever get your fingers in the mangle?
Louis
*****
Post# 14235-2/24/2002-12:20 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: RE: New 1956 Bendix Laundry Sales Facts
MESSAGE: Quite a wonderful machine. I would love to seen one for real. Is there anybody in this club that has one?
*****
Post# 14236-2/24/2002-12:33 ||| tcox6912 (New Orleans, LA)
SUBJECT: RE: New 1956 Bendix Laundry Sales Facts
MESSAGE: Gansky, thanks for posting the power surge info. This seemed to be an interesting concept ... not like the calypso wash action that I thought. Would love to see one of these in action.
*****
Post# 14237-2/24/2002-12:33 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: RE: ABC-O-Matic Wing Is Now Open!!
MESSAGE: Beautiful job!
How fast is the revolution/wobble in the ABC?
*****
Post# 14238-2/24/2002-13:30 ||| scott55405 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: New 1956 Bendix Laundry Sales Facts
MESSAGE: Ed, looking at Greg's literature, I'd say that *has* to be where Whirlpool got the idea. *Now* if some manufacturer would look at old Frigidaire literature and have a light bulb go off in their head... ;-)
*****
Post# 14239-2/24/2002-13:34 ||| scott55405 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: Why are there no posts prior to #14200?
MESSAGE: hmm....they're all there now...try again. If you didn't know, each time we roll over 100 it starts a new page. There is a previous button on top you can push to get to the last page. Scott
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Post# 14240-2/24/2002-13:37 ||| scott55405 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: GE to introduce a new washer. Renewed focus & emphasis on appliances
MESSAGE: Well, that's interesting; I would have sooner expected them to drop out of, rather than expand in, the appliance business. Should be interesting to see what they come up with for a new washer, and if it will be a repeat of the fiasco that was the last design change.
*****
Post# 14241-2/24/2002-14:29 ||| Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: Today's POD 02/23/02 (Hotpoint )
MESSAGE: Yes, Easy was made completely by Hotpoint in its final years.
*****
Post# 14242-2/24/2002-14:30 ||| Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: ABC-O-Matic Wing Is Now Open!!
MESSAGE: Thanks Greg, the ABC dashes about 325dpm and spins about 550rpm.
*****
Post# 14243-2/24/2002-15:10 ||| HQOTS (Florida)
SUBJECT: RE: New 1956 Bendix Laundry Sales Facts
MESSAGE: If you will think back to when the Calypso was 'new' someone on this club posted the Patent info on the Calypso and several machines from the past were listed in the description.
*****
Post# 14244-2/24/2002-15:13 ||| scott55405 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: New 1956 Bendix Laundry Sales Facts
MESSAGE: Hi Sweetie, I seem to remember talk to that effect back at that time. Do you still have your Calypso? Still like it?
*****
Post# 14245-2/24/2002-15:58 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: RE: Today's POD 02/23/02 (Hotpoint )
MESSAGE: Oh ---- well who knew??
*****
Post# 14246-2/24/2002-16:01 ||| HQOTS (Florida)
SUBJECT: RE: New 1956 Bendix Laundry Sales Facts
MESSAGE: It's still chugging along in the laundry room. I just wish they put more sound insulation in it. Every time I use it I have to go to the other end of the house because of the noise. There is nothing soothing about the sounds that machine makes.
*****
Post# 14247-2/24/2002-16:08 ||| angus (Fairfield, CT.)
SUBJECT: RE: GE to introduce a new washer. Renewed focus & emphasis on appliances
MESSAGE: I am curious also, since I thought they would leave the appliance business. Although I don't hold out much hope for grand sweeping quality or design changes, it would be great if they could do something revolutionary like admit the last design was not completely thought out and poorly executed to play catch up with Whirlpool and Maytag. Then go back and reintroduce the old filter-flo!!!!
*****
Post# 14248-2/24/2002-16:15 ||| angus (Fairfield, CT.)
SUBJECT: 1946 Philco Refrigerator
MESSAGE: I know we are not about refrigeration, but I saw on ebay yesterday a 1946 Philco Refrigerator (model A721). It appeared to be in pristine shape and still with all of its original documentation conveniently sealed in a plastic bag. It also looked like it had a bottom freezer...... if that is possible. It is located in Vancouver, B.C. and bidding was to start at $100. Quite interesting...........
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Post# 14249-2/24/2002-16:49 ||| arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: ABC-O-Matic Wing Is Now Open!!
MESSAGE: Thanx so very much!
I just love the videos. What a wonderful washing machine. Its a shame corparate greed and takeover mentality has bred out indivualality and ingenuity in appliances!
Thanx to all these great videos I can watch so many great washing machines in action. A childhood dream come true!
Cant wait to see Jetcones beautiful machines too.
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Post# 14250-2/24/2002-16:52 ||| PeterH770 (Atlanta, GA)
SUBJECT: RE: Today's POD 02/23/02 (Easy - Hotpoint - WCI)
MESSAGE: And there was a WCI Easy machine out there. The family of a friend of mine in high school had one. I remember looking at it thinking it was a (WCI) Kelvinator...
-ph
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Post# 14251-2/24/2002-16:54 ||| PeterH770 (Atlanta, GA)
SUBJECT: RE: 1946 Philco Refrigerator (Philco ebay wonders)
MESSAGE: Did you see the Philco dual-tub wringer on eBay? I'm no wringer person, but this one could change my mind!
-ph
LINK: http://cgi.ebay.aol.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2005430030
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Post# 14252-2/24/2002-16:55 ||| PeterH770 (Atlanta, GA)
SUBJECT: RE: New 1956 Bendix Laundry Sales Facts
MESSAGE: 19 more days and you can be lulled to sleep to the sound of the '64 LK in the kitchen...
-ph
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Post# 14253-2/24/2002-16:57 ||| arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (reply to post 14223 - arrrooohhh)
MESSAGE: For a country that worked so hard to develop automatic appliances in the 20th century I cant belive that American washing machines have become so boring and basic. It must be so boring to look in shops and see that every washing machine has that spiral DAA. Only Amana has something different and now that is in the hands of Maytag.
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Post# 14254-2/24/2002-17:02 ||| PeterH770 (Atlanta, GA)
SUBJECT: RE: ABC-O-Matic Wing Is Now Open!!
MESSAGE: Fab-o-matic! You just got to love the way that machine works...
-ph
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Post# 14255-2/24/2002-17:07 ||| PeterH770 (Atlanta, GA)
SUBJECT: RE: GE to introduce a new washer. Renewed focus & emphasis on appliances
MESSAGE: GE has been advertising the heck out of the coin-op trade journals. Too bad they want to come out with that now, after every learned very quick how bad their products have become. There isn't a coin store owner out there that would have their products in their stores, so whatever the next 270 "new" products, they better be something completely different. And I don't mean the Frigmore with the GE logo on it!
-ph
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Post# 14256-2/24/2002-17:10 ||| PeterH770 (Atlanta, GA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (church of the poison appliances)
MESSAGE: Can I get an AMEN up in here? Preach on, Brother Ganski!
-ph
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Post# 14257-2/24/2002-17:54 ||| scott55405 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: 1946 Philco Refrigerator (Philco ebay wonders)
MESSAGE: That thing is fabulous! What fun!
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Post# 14258-2/24/2002-17:55 ||| scott55405 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: Today's POD 02/23/02 (Easy - Hotpoint - WCI)
MESSAGE: What a terrifying thought. At least Easy apparently had the good sense to go out of business before this got too out of hand...
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Post# 14259-2/24/2002-17:57 ||| scott55405 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: 1946 Philco Refrigerator (Philco ebay wonders)
MESSAGE: The man bidding on it I think is the one that has that website with all the wringer washers on it.
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Post# 14260-2/24/2002-17:57 ||| arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (reply to post 14223 - arrrooohhh)
MESSAGE: Interesting.
Email was the DR Evil bent on dominating the white goods industry. Over the last 15 years it bought Kelvinator, Simpson, all the Southcorp brands. It then handed the whole parcel over to Electrolux, proud owners of the names Hoover, Simpson, Westinghouse, Kelvinator, Dishlex, Chef, Frigidaire, and I am sure other names too. I do think that there is a future for the Australian manufacturing industry in the point of view that the Australian made fridges are less likely to rust and service is everywhere. Also cheap Asian washing machines have been on sale in Australia since the 70's and have never matched the sales of the Simpson Delta and Hoover Premier medium sized washers. However corparate Greed and Politics ruined the Hoover company. See the link below.
I have no problem what so ever with European products. Whirlpool was neevr really in Australia anyway until it relaunced itself as an importer in the late 80's early 90's. Whirlpool products were made in Australia under licence by the Malleys company and were always labeled Whirlpool by Malleys. ANd even then they imported a small Japanese impeller washer that was extremely reliable I have known on several of these machines that just refused to die. ( I am, of course, familiar with all my friends and families washing machines! )
Whirlpools European product lines are genuine Whirlpool, produced and sole in Europe by Whirlpool owned factories and sold as Whirlpool. Whirlpool seems very serious about being a key player in Europe.
As for front loaders well I think they are the only moral chocie is a dry country like Australia. While Sydney has had plenty of rain regional NSW and I am sure other parts of the country dont have as plentiful water supplies. I have just been up the central coast and they are on water restrictions as of today. My Aunty in Coffs Harbour says that the city water supply up there is expected to run dry. These parts have increasing populations and demand on resources and using 180 litres of water each time you wash is not on. You talk about the capacity of American machine s yet my same Aunty's Kleenmaid is a huge machine whith a surprisingly small washbowl. Yes the new model is larger but used more water too. Fishers and Paykels much advertised energy effiency doesnt nessacariry translate into water effiency.
The capacity of wahing machines is a joke. How many people have 8 kG of washing at any one time? If you did you would be surprised if you put it in the machine!! And still even then colours, whites and towels need to be separted. Most people dont run their machine full, its about 3/4 full so all this capacity is a joke. You can fit just as much washing in a larger front loader or smaller front loader to match a smaller top loader. The tuble action moves the clothes around much better than an agitator that needs the room to move the clothes around in a tub.
If bending down in an issue then a pedestal is an option. Having an American Whirlpool top loader my Mum needs a stick to reach the bottom as it is too far down to reach. A raised front loader is definately the best option on ones back.
As for design, so what? American machines were very fancifully designed in the past. Look at the older Kenmores and Frigidaires that our fellow members have collected. They have great style. The same machines today are so bland. White knobs on a white background. Better though than a few years ago when it was black knobs on a brown background. So the Europeans may have a few more curves, but as long as I can choose my cycle, temp, and variables to suit me, fine. I personally have always been facinated with design. As a school boy i used to just draw all kinds if different control panels in the back of my books. Yes Kids may get to them but kids can also get a chair and get to the top of a top loader and start playing around too! You say front loers have 30 odd cycles, each part of the wash, rinse and spin are considers a "program" as opposed to a whole "cycle". Taking this idea means that a 3 cycle Hoover 750LB has 17 programs.
Front loading is also gaing a mcuh higher profile in the US too, as the most viable option to wash clothes effectively AND meet US increasing strict energy guidelines. Europe, with expensive resources such as energy and water, has been doing this for years. The great styling is just a bonus.
Globalisation means that we are going to see more and more same again products. Look at Volkswagen. Its Golf forms the basis of many differesnt cars, such as the Audi A4, Seat Toldeo, Skoda Octavia and many other cars. Al that is essentially different is the marketing. At least in Australia we have a bigger choice. In Sears you can choose from Kenmore, Whirlpool, Maytag, Frigidaire and Amana. Walkin into a Harvry Norman store and you can choose from Fisher and Paykel, Hoover, Simpson, Whirlpool, Maytag, LG, Samsung, NEC, Miele, Asko, Bendix, Ariston, and Bosch. Plenty of choice if you ask me.
Its just a shame that our one front loader made here is gone. It was a good machine for its purpose.
LINK: http://www.cpa.org.au/garchive/954hoov.htm
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Post# 14261-2/24/2002-18:01 ||| arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (catching up.)
MESSAGE: Your Bendix power surge brochure was Great Ganski. I hope you find one of these machines.
Companies like Miele and others seem to come up with new ideas that work. Saving resources seems to be the focus of these comapnies for the last two decades, while the US companies seem to be caught unaware and are trying to patch up. The Frigemore seems like a nice and well thought out product though. I would love to see and use one.
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Post# 14262-2/24/2002-18:28 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: RE: New 1956 Bendix Laundry Sales Facts
MESSAGE: Not that I know of - so far, the stuff only dreams are made of!
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Post# 14263-2/24/2002-18:31 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: RE: 1946 Philco Refrigerator (Philco ebay wonders)
MESSAGE: That is a beauty!
First the Food-O-Rama and now this...you know what they say about a man with huge appliances.....
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Post# 14264-2/24/2002-18:43 ||| magic clean (Florida)
SUBJECT: RE: Today's POD 02/23/02 (rebirth of Easy outside of U.S.)
MESSAGE: Very recently, I viewed a new "Easy" washer. Unique thing(s) about it is....the large rectangular viewing window in the lid and the Spanish language graphics on the control panel. Otherwise; it appears to be made by GE. Don't know it's whereabouts....I'm thinking perhaps Mexico.
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Post# 14265-2/24/2002-20:13 ||| peteski50 (New York)
SUBJECT: RE: ABC-O-Matic Wing Is Now Open!! (ABC Wing)
MESSAGE: Robert,
This is a great addition - Thanks
Peter
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Post# 14266-2/24/2002-21:15 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (reply to post 14223 - arrrooohhh)
MESSAGE: You seem to be forgetting the Maytag Neptune, designed and built in the USA. With advanced touchscreen panels, true programmable memory-saved favorites selections, and precise diagnostics and real time parameter display. Then there's the Calypso - controversial, yes, but boring? NO!
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Post# 14267-2/24/2002-22:08 ||| scott55405 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (reply to post 14223 - arrrooohhh)
MESSAGE: Not having any real time experience with these two machines, I know only that there is of course only one thing that each of these machines lack: can you guess what it is? :-)
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Post# 14268-2/24/2002-22:10 ||| scott55405 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: GE to introduce a new washer. Renewed focus & emphasis on appliances
MESSAGE: I just had a thought: I wonder if the "new" GE washer is going to be an F&P...after all, GE does make the American F&P dryers...
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Post# 14269-2/24/2002-23:18 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (reply to post 14223 - arrrooohhh)
MESSAGE: No, what?
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Post# 14270-2/24/2002-23:29 ||| scott55405 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (reply to post 14223 - arrrooohhh)
MESSAGE: a window, in each case. ;-)
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Post# 14271-2/24/2002-23:31 ||| DADoES (El Campo, TX)
SUBJECT: RE: GE to introduce a new washer. Renewed focus & emphasis on appliances
MESSAGE: Hmmm . . . follow this link, then select either of the first two models, and then look at the Use/Care guide. It has a one-touch cycle with automatic water level similar to F&P (but the auto-water level apparently doesn't function if a specific cycle is selected . . wonder what's with that??).
Maybe GE is bringing the Intuitive to the US. But that would be F&P's flagship model, and they have their own market here, so why would they give it to GE??
LINK: http://geappliances.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/AppLogic+DevMM.FramesImg?model=WPS&color=White&img=prtbl_stnr.jpg
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Post# 14272-2/24/2002-23:34 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (reply to post 14223 - arrrooohhh)
MESSAGE: Well... most top loaders don't have windows... including the venerable Unimatic... although there is a window lid available for the Calypso... I've seen them at dealers'... the Neptune may lack a window, but it has an essential feature I cannot do without... a reversable door.
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Post# 14273-2/24/2002-23:36 ||| arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (choice and other things)
MESSAGE: You are right about those two machines. Definately not boring!
I was thinking more about the generic GE and Frigidaire lines, and machines such as the resource saver Whirlpool. While you have Interesting and Exciting machines such as the Neptune, Calypso and Speed Queen front loader, I was responding to Ganski's comment about how companies such as GE will mostly make a machine that just meets the requirements for consumption and performance will be compromised.
My other point is that for a small population 20 million, we have an extremely wide choice of Australian, New Zealand, American, Asian and European appliances.
Then the other point is about styling. The Mayatg Atlanis and Neptune are very stylish and this is obviously a factor that was designed in. But the masses of Kenmores, Frigidaires and GE's definately lack the styling flair of models from the past.
Not out to offend anyone.
Not out to offend anyone.
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Post# 14274-2/24/2002-23:41 ||| arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Windows)
MESSAGE: I found a website for Easy of mexico but I cant open it.
I think a window lid is a fantastic idea! I wish Maytag would make a window lid so you dont have to trip the double lid switch!
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Post# 14275-2/24/2002-23:43 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: GE to introduce a new washer. Renewed focus & emphasis on appliances
MESSAGE: Well, I've scoured GE's web site, and I can find no mention of a new washer line being unveiled this past week. Maybe the web site is out-of-date?
There is a press release about a $200 million upgrade to GE's Appliance mfg facility in Kentucky, which leads me to believe that GE will not be rebadging F&P's.
I'd like to think that GE is going to be bringing out a nifty new front loader with features that will blow everyone else away. Not that I'm a GE fan, I'd just like to see even more progress in the front loader arena. Unfortunately when I think of GE appliances, I get that cheap metallic taste in my mouth, like that I experienced as a small child in the mid-1950's after putting a stamped steel toy car in my mouth. Those toy cars were made in Japan, of course. Since then Japan, Inc., has vaulted from the bottom of the quality heap to the very top. Maybe there is hope for GE yet.
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Post# 14276-2/24/2002-23:47 ||| arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: GE to introduce a new washer. Renewed focus & emphasis on appliances
MESSAGE: Definately not an F&P machine. Looks more like an Asian produced machine to me with its front control panel and fold up lid. Probably a Samsung.
I am guessing this because we have a Samsung washer on sale in Aus badged as a GE Profile.
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Post# 14277-2/24/2002-23:49 ||| DADoES (El Campo, TX)
SUBJECT: RE: GE to introduce a new washer. Renewed focus & emphasis on appliances
MESSAGE: aha! 8-)
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Post# 14278-2/24/2002-23:50 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Windows)
MESSAGE: Well, if I had a Calypso, I would either finagle my dealer into getting me one of those window lids, or I'd order a standard lid as a spare part and then cut a hole in it and silicone a piece of tempered glass to it. Alas, the Neptune door design is not so amenable to such alterations, having not only an outer and an inner panel, but also a big ventilation tube and a thick steel counterbalance plate running right smack down the middle.
If I knew a plastics manufacturer I'd try to get them to build an inner and outer door panel out of a transparent but heat resistant plastic. But it wouldn't take long for the inner panel to get scratched up and useless.
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Post# 14279-2/24/2002-23:53 ||| arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: GE to introduce a new washer. Renewed focus & emphasis on appliances (Its a samsung.)
MESSAGE: I just downloaded the owners manual and it is a Samsung.
i could tell by the lint filters mounted on the side of the wash tub. They are like cassettes, you pul them out, open them up, empty the lint and replace them. Others suchc as LG and Daewoo have little filter bags at the top of a water track that works in a similar way to the Norge burp filter.
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Post# 14280-2/24/2002-00:08 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (reply to post 14223 - arrrooohhh)
MESSAGE: A window - just like the Hamilton you remember! ;-)
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Post# 14281-2/24/2002-00:21 ||| scott55405 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: GE to introduce a new washer. Renewed focus & emphasis on appliances
MESSAGE: Perhaps F&P-like washers will be manufactured in this newly remodeled plant, much like many foreign cars are now assembled in US plants.
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Post# 14282-2/24/2002-00:22 ||| scott55405 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: GE to introduce a new washer. Renewed focus & emphasis on appliances
MESSAGE: My guess is it would just be another version, just like you have Whirlpool and Sears, and who knows how many White/Electrolux or whatever products that are essentially the same.
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Post# 14283-2/24/2002-00:24 ||| scott55405 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (reply to post 14223 - arrrooohhh)
MESSAGE: That's rii-iight! Then again to me, all washers and dryers should have windows.
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Post# 14284-2/24/2002-01:15 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: Why are there no posts prior to #14200? (Reply to # 14239)
MESSAGE: Thank you Scott,
You know how it is, if its right in front of one's eyes it is more likely to be missed (the previous button in this case).
Take care
Bubbles
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Post# 14285-2/24/2002-01:51 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: GE to introduce a new washer. Renewed focus & emphasis on appliances
MESSAGE: Or, maybe GE will be coming out with a new design of toploader.
The "Percowash". Yep, it runs on 220 volts, 30 amps. It heats that water to boiling, at which point it bubbles up the center of the agitator, and hits a glass bulb on the lid with a plop plop fizz fizz. You can watch the water go from clear to murky as the dirt is extracted from the clothes in the percolation chamber. Instead of spinning, a big plunger comes down and squeezes all the water out. Sugar and creamer are extra.
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Post# 14286-2/25/2002-07:38 ||| gizmo (Great Ocean Road, Victoria, Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (RIP the Aussie Hoover)
MESSAGE: Once again I agree with you Arrrooohhh.
I particularly like the Hoover front loaders. The Electra's were the last of them and they had no heater and had "normal" temp controls - you could separately select hot/warm/cold wash, whereas the earlier ones had temp linked to the timer - a long wash was hot, a medium wash was warm and a short wash was cold. They also re-introduced a detergent dispenser. The intermediate ones, you had to add detergent to the drum, there was no provision for softener (not that I use it). The Zodiac 470's were good too, with the brush-type motor which spun really well (if noisily). The 480 and 490 used the Italian induction motor, which was quieter and more reliable, but spun dismally slow, and seemed to shake about more. I have wondered if Electrolux intend to put one of their Front Loaders into producton here?? As they also own Frigidaire in the US, I wonder if they might bring it to Australian production? Its simple design, heaterless and large capacity would make it seem a certain success here, if it were priced right.
Ah well, dreaming is free...
I loved your link about Hoover's recent corporate history.
Chris.
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Post# 14287-2/25/2002-07:49 ||| gizmo (Great Ocean Road, Victoria, Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: GE to introduce a new washer. Renewed focus & emphasis on appliances
MESSAGE: Don't hold your breath waithing for a fantastic new GE.
GE planned a big assault on the expanding Front Loader market here in Aus about four/five years ago. They told dealers they soon expected to be the number 1 front loader in Australia, 1 dealer told me they expected to sell more FL's here than all other brands combined!! The product.....
Drum roll....
The apalling Hotpoint range from the UK, already about 20 year old technology, recently re-engineered for decreased reliability and more noise and vibration. Rebadged as GE.
They were hardly knocked over in the rush. I have seen two year old versions still on the showroom floor with clearance prices. I have rescued two of them from the landfill when they were under four years old - must have been happy owners, chucking out a thousand dollar plus washer after four years.
The Samsung triflow Top Loader rated last in Choice magazine.
Boy, looks like they've picked a winner...
Chris
drowning in my own vitriol.
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Post# 14288-2/25/2002-08:12 ||| gizmo (Great Ocean Road, Victoria, Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (reply to post 14223 - arrrooohhh)
MESSAGE: Hi Mr. Bubbles.
(I'm a bit worried about that name. Do you know about the other Mr. Bubbles??? )
Not so sure about your comments on Euro front Loaders. I have owned lots of them, I have never had to kneel down to operate them. It isn't hard to make them childproof, too. Whirlpools from Italy tend to have retracting knobs, LG front loaders have a combination of buttons you press to lock the controls.
If you want a rear control panel, you can get the "Kleenmaid by Brandt" top loading tumble washer, which is a little screamer. Only drawback is the outrageous price.
I agree with you about the stoves, however. I have been a professional cook for over 15 years and a trainer of cooks too. I have never come across a better imported stove than the ordinary Aussie stoves like Chef or particularly Modern Maid. The commercial European stoves I have used in restaurants have been awful - poor burner control, wobbly trivets which burn away, uneven and slow ovens, etc.
Poor old Modern Maid...They were in financial trouble, the workers put their own savings into the company restructure,and it was renamed Modern Maid and Staff, they developed a really great gas stove called the Ultima series as their "do or die" effort. They didn't make it... I believe the company name was part of the problem, it sounds sort of sexist and old-fashioned. I bought one when they went broke as a clearance at a great discount. I bought a second-hand one when I moved to the country. I will chase up a second-hand or reconditioned one again when my new house is finished. They don't look like anything special, they just cook evenly and easily.
I could make a smutty reference to kneeling down to fiddle with an Italian retracting knob, but I'd better not.
Chris.
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Post# 14289-2/25/2002-08:49 ||| PeterH770 (Atlanta, GA)
SUBJECT: RE: Today's POD 02/23/02 (GE no esta facil)
MESSAGE: Yes, GE is Easy in Central and South America...
-ph
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Post# 14290-2/25/2002-08:52 ||| PeterH770 (Atlanta, GA)
SUBJECT: RE: GE to introduce a new washer. Renewed focus & emphasis on appliances (top load front load?)
MESSAGE: That looks suspiciously like a top loading h-axis washer to me, especially with 1 speed and the 2.7 capacity...
-ph
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Post# 14291-2/25/2002-08:53 ||| Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: ABC-O-Matic Wing Is Now Open!! (Splash o rama)
MESSAGE: YAY, glad you enjoyed them.
Did everyone notice that in the video of the Wash Cycle it shows 3 different segments of the wash cycle over a period of 12 minutes. Each new scene the water level is slighly lower and the splashing is less. The water level normally drops a bit through out the enitre wash cycle as its literally splashed over the top of the tub and down the drain.
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Post# 14292-2/25/2002-08:58 ||| Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (reply to post 14223 - arrrooohhh)
MESSAGE: Ahh, but the venerable Unimatic did have three models with window lids. Besides a window lid isn't necessary in a top loader with the exception of four brands, ABC-O-Matic, Kelvinator, Apex and Universal. Of course we all know why you need an window in the ABC, otherwise bring a bath towel! LOL
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Post# 14293-2/25/2002-10:55 ||| scott55405 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: GE to introduce a new washer. Renewed focus & emphasis on appliances
MESSAGE: I'd buy that... ;-)
There are some large commercial carpet shampooers used downtown that do something like that. There is a large plexiglass dome on top, and the water squirts through a tube into the dome, much like a percolator.
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Post# 14294-2/25/2002-11:02 ||| scott55405 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: GE to introduce a new washer. Renewed focus & emphasis on appliances (top load front load?)
MESSAGE: I also considered that it could be one of those Korean washers with the little spinner on the bottom, but in the use and care section it mentions an agitator.
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Post# 14295-2/25/2002-11:48 ||| jasonl (New Orleans, LA)
SUBJECT: RE: ABC-O-Matic Wing Is Now Open!! (Splash o rama)
MESSAGE: Yes. I noticed that. Also after the overflow fill, it splashes like crazy until most of the water falls out of the tub. I like the spin acceleration. Quick like a frigidaire but not as fast :-( .
I want one!
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Post# 14296-2/25/2002-11:59 ||| cycla-fabric (New Jersey)
SUBJECT: ABC-O-Matic
MESSAGE: What a wonderful machine that ABC-O-Matic. It was great to watch the videos! And what a splash machine it is. I always wondered how that one worked and now I know. Thanks Uni!
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Post# 14297-2/25/2002-12:04 ||| jasonl (New Orleans, LA)
SUBJECT: RE: ABC-O-Matic Wing Is Now Open!! (Splash o rama)
MESSAGE: The ABC is one of the most soothing washers I've heard so far. I could fall asleep listening to it wash. I have to say I think it ranks up there with belt drive Kenmores as far as sound goes. It has a nice soft rythmic sound along with the splashing. The spin is very quiet also.
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Post# 14298-2/25/2002-12:49 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (reply to post 14223 - arrrooohhh)
MESSAGE: It may be just a matter of time before the lawyers force top loaders to have door locks as well... microprocessor controlled so that it will be difficult if not impossible to defeat them... this is progress... ;-)
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Post# 14299-2/25/2002-12:50 ||| Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: ABC-O-Matic Wing Is Now Open!! (Splash o rama)
MESSAGE: The ABC-O-Matic is the quietest vintage washer I have ever heard. When I'm using it and any other machine is also running in the basement at the same time, I have to look at the ABC to see if its still running.
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Post# 14300-2/25/2002-12:59 ||| Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (reply to post 14223 - arrrooohhh)
MESSAGE: I'm up for that challenge. There will always be a way to make the machine "think" that the lid is closed, either electrically or mechanically. Worse comes to worse you can always take the lid off and cut a hole in it (take it to a machine shop to have a nice smooth round or square hole cut in it). Then silicone a new piece of glass to the new hole in the lid and walla, a window lid washer!
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Post# 14301-2/25/2002-13:04 ||| Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: ABC-O-Matic
MESSAGE: Glad you enjoyed that Doug. For years I would look at the ABC and Kelvinator washer ads and wonder how the heck did that agitator move? Finally after years of wondering we can all know. And what a show that machine puts on, it hands down has to win the Applianceville Acadamy Award for "Most Dramatic Agitation Cycle".
More museum wings will open eventually, I just need to find a way to have the day last 25 hours.
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Post# 14302-2/25/2002-14:12 ||| peteski50 (New York)
SUBJECT: RE: ABC-O-Matic Wing Is Now Open!! (ABC)
MESSAGE: The splash away is my favorate part
Real Action!
Peter
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Post# 14303-2/25/2002-14:14 ||| peteski50 (New York)
SUBJECT: RE: ABC-O-Matic (ABC)
MESSAGE: It's so great - I wish they would have made a 1/18 !!!!!!
*****
Post# 14304-2/25/2002-14:22 ||| golittlesport (California)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (here! here!)
MESSAGE: Hi Greg
Very well said! Brave! Bravo! It is amazing to me that appliances cost about the same dollar amount today as they did fifty years ago. Look at the price difference in cars, food, and real estate between then and now. Yet washers and dryers go for the same amount. It's no wonder they are cheaply made with few major innovations over the decades. Self-cleaning lint filter? (GE had one in their very first automatic.) Auto-temperature control? (just about every automatic made in the fifties had them.) H-axis? (Someone please tell Maytag about Bendix and Westinghouse in the 40's and 50's.)
Even the Calypso, as innovative as it is, can be traced back to several early designs that were combined. (Whirlpool roto-spray, Apex bouncing basket, Bendix energy disc, ABC-O-Matic)
Some consumers "just can't justify" spending more money on a washing machine that does a better job, preserves their clothing, and conserves resources. But they can justify a $30,000 automobile every five years. It doesn't make sense to me.
And, don't get me wrong...I love my new Dakota Quad Cab...but a washing machine is much more important than a car or truck! ;-)
Rich
*****
Post# 14305-2/25/2002-14:34 ||| golittlesport (California)
SUBJECT: RE: 1946 Philco Refrigerator (pretty washer)
MESSAGE: Hi Peter
That Philco wringer is beautiful. I don't think it is as old as listed. Philco marketed these dual tub machines after aquiring Dexter, who held the patent. I would guess it is from the late 50's, maybe early 60's. It certainly is in good shape cosmetically. Go get it! If I had a basement with laundry tubs, I would drive to Chicago for it.
Rich
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Post# 14306-2/25/2002-15:17 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (here! here!)
MESSAGE: I think it's somewhat a matter of perspective. Typically the machines that last long enough to be called vintage are the ones that were well designed and manufactured in the first place. I'm sure there are plenty of pre-1980 machines have long since become recycled steel because they just weren't that great to begin with. When I read in the old CR reports of people getting electrocuted by old machines, or the admonition that a good service department is as important in selecting an automatic washer as the machine itself, well, I come to the conclusion that the typical machine of the 50's was probably not any more reliable than the typical machine of today, and perhaps less reliable. The same goes for vintage cars. When most people see one on the road, they say, "They were built like tanks, they don't make them like that any more" etc. When I hear such comments, I just think to myself, "how nice it is that I can keep a myth alive!". I can say from personal experience that while I love my vintage cars, I'm GLAD they don't make them that way any more. They were labor intensive and had much more frequent service intervals and much shorter lifespans than the cars of today. Yes, they were easier to work on, in some respects, because they had to be worked on very frequently. Of course, they cost about ten times today what they cost in 1950. Go figure! I think the thing I try to remember when buying a modern appliance, is, to get the best quality I can afford. That way, the thing might actually be an operational classic in 25 years or so, whether I still own it or not. We don't need more scrap steel.
*****
Post# 14307-2/25/2002-17:07 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Remember the Kenmore?)
MESSAGE: I think I remember you seeing a window-lid Kenmore (70's match-all style) and I STILL don't recall Sears ever offering that option...I wonder if someone did what you suggested here - or something kind of like that...
*****
Post# 14308-2/25/2002-17:08 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Remember the Kenmore?)
MESSAGE: Oh that reminds me -
Jetcone, how is the restoration of that Imperator washer coming along? I'll bet parts are impossible to find!
*****
Post# 14309-2/25/2002-19:17 ||| angus (Fairfield, CT.)
SUBJECT: RE: ABC-O-Matic Wing Is Now Open!! (Splash o rama)
MESSAGE: Well, I agree that it is soothing, but I still think of the Norge Timeline as the most soothing sounding and rhythmic washer to nap with. Come to think of it - - the GE filter flo would also qualify as soothing except for that darned banging of the tub brake after spin........
*****
Post# 14310-2/25/2002-19:21 ||| angus (Fairfield, CT.)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (here! here!)
MESSAGE: Sad, but true. But I wonder - back in the 50's and 60's what was the estimated life of a washer?
*****
Post# 14311-2/25/2002-19:27 ||| angus (Fairfield, CT.)
SUBJECT: RE: 1946 Philco Refrigerator (pretty washer)
MESSAGE: It is a beautiful machine, and I think you are probably right about the age. I don't think that particular Philco logo was seen on washers until the 1959 Automagic was introduced. The 1950's Philco washer pictured in the P.O.D didn't sport that logo.
*****
Post# 14312-2/25/2002-19:43 ||| jasonl (New Orleans, LA)
SUBJECT: RE: ABC-O-Matic Wing Is Now Open!! (Splash o rama)
MESSAGE: Well, I haven't heard a Norge Timeline machine run but I'm sure it sounds great.
As far as the best sounding washer, I still think belt drive Kenmores win that category IMHO. Maybe it's because I grew up with one too.
Different people feel that way about the washer they grew up with. Like some people like the "chugga chugga chugga" of a Unimatic, while some people love the hum of a GE, the splashing of an ABC, the sloshing and whine of a front loader, or the almost musical "whirrrrwhirrrrwhirrrrr" of a Kenmore :-D . Give me the Kenmore!
*****
Post# 14313-2/25/2002-20:05 ||| mrb627 (Atlanta GA)
SUBJECT: RE: GE to introduce a new washer. Renewed focus & emphasis on appliances (centerpost)
MESSAGE: This is actually a centerpost washer and BestBuy has them in stock. I looked at one and thought it would be a fine toy to play with as it is portable and could connect to any faucet.
Why don't appliance dealers have machines connected for a live demo?
*****
Post# 14314-2/25/2002-20:54 ||| peteski50 (New York)
SUBJECT: RE: ABC-O-Matic Wing Is Now Open!! (Washer Sounds!!)
MESSAGE: I have always like the sounds of all kinds of washers. But to me my favorate will always be a GM Frigidaire. Weather it was a rapid dry or 1/18. To me thats the sound of good True washing. It was probably the loudest of all the washing machines but their was no sound like it. (I realy miss that sound)
Jetaction to all!
Peter
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Post# 14315-2/25/2002-23:58 ||| arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: GE to introduce a new washer. Renewed focus & emphasis on appliances (Hotpoint in Aus)
MESSAGE: I remember a comprehansice advertising campaign in the media a while ago. Advertisements in all the weekly magazines such as Who, Womens Weekly etc, rather than just the Better Home type mags. Every store you walked into had them on display.
What went wrong? The machines did look very nice in the stores and the drum looked large which would of sold people. They were expensive though and you could get the Whirlpool with the same features for $150 less.
*****
Post# 14316-2/25/2002-00:08 ||| arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (RIP the Aussie Hoover)
MESSAGE: I have often wondered if we might see the Frigemore either sold in Australia or better still manufacured here. Look at the sucess LG has had with its 7 kilo front loader, the Frigemore could just walk out the door. I thought they could sell it as a Westinghouse as they are currently selling a rebadged LG. Wishing and Hoping...
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Post# 14317-2/25/2002-00:08 ||| arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Frigemore)
MESSAGE: I have often wondered if we might see the Frigemore either sold in Australia or better still manufacured here. Look at the sucess LG has had with its 7 kilo front loader, the Frigemore could just walk out the door. I thought they could sell it as a Westinghouse as they are currently selling a rebadged LG. Wishing and Hoping...
*****
Post# 14318-2/25/2002-00:11 ||| arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: ABC-O-Matic Wing Is Now Open!! (Splash o rama)
MESSAGE: I noticed that. I guess all that water you were wiping away its amazing any is left in the tub!
I assume it didnt have an overflow at the end o fthe wash. That would be to wild to watch!
*****
Post# 14319-2/25/2002-00:20 ||| arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: GE to introduce a new washer. Renewed focus & emphasis on appliances (top load front load?)
MESSAGE: It often is called an agitator, or a low profile agitator. The base skirt is large and sunk into the base, rather than sitting on top of the base. The centre bost comes up one third of the way into the drum, and is suppose to go up and down. Dont expect anything frigidaire like, its like that kenmore agitator that goes up and down as well as side to side, just shorter.
*****
Post# 14320-2/25/2002-01:17 ||| washrfreak (Dallas)
SUBJECT: RE: GE to introduce a new washer. Renewed focus & emphasis on appliances (Cottons, Permanent Press, Frape)
MESSAGE: The one I saw a few years ago didn't have any center post. It was a disk on the bottom of the tub. I didn't see it operate, so I don't know how it worked. Looking at it make me think more blender than washer.
*****
Post# 14321-2/26/2002-05:36 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: ABC-O-Matic Wing Is Now Open!! (Splash o rama)
MESSAGE: Hi Robert,
Thanks for making these ABC videos, they are just wonderful. Some time ago, we were discussing the ABC and Kelvinator wash action, and I could not picture the motion. DADoES kindly posted a link to a cutaway diagram of the ABC, I thought that this may be a good time to repost the link. The picture is in golittlesport's album.
Thanks again
LINK: http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/golittlesport/vwp?.dir=/Vintage+Ads+%26+other+stuff&.src=ph&.dnm=ABC-O-Matic+cut-away.JPG&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/bc/golittlesport/lst%3f%26.dir=/Vintage%2bAds%2b%2526%2bother%2bstuff%26.src=ph%26.view=t
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Post# 14322-2/26/2002-05:53 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (RIP the Aussie Hoover)
MESSAGE: Gizmo,
That Hoover idea of wash time linked to cycle, long=hot etc, gave me quite a chuckle. As we would say in the UK, the idea seems rather arse about face, bet you use that ex[ression in OZ too, US translation - the wrong way around.
I figure that many of you will be familiar with the CHAT acronym, Chemical, Heat, Agitation, Time, to describe the basic elements of successful laundy. If all elements are in proportion you get the result, if you decrease one element, then other(s) must increase to compensate. In practise, if one reduces the wash temperature, then you need to inccrease teh detergent dose, time or agitation to get a result with the same load.
I guess that Hoover's logic was that the short cold cycle was only for light soil, and the long hot for heavy soil. This would make it dificult to wash very dirty non-colourfast items.
I figure that in non-heater mechanical controlled machines, one should be able to get wash temperatures that are not set options on the machine, by adjusting the water taps. Many of the older machines did not have cold washes or cold rinses, but I guess that if you turned off the hot water, you would get cold wash / rinse.
*****
Post# 14323-2/26/2002-06:53 ||| gizmo (Great Ocean Road, Victoria, Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: GE to introduce a new washer. Renewed focus & emphasis on appliances (top load front load?)
MESSAGE: Don't forget to mention arrrooohhh...
The standard operation for these impeller type washers is about 30 minutes for a load to wash, rinse and spin, followed by 45 minutes untangling the twisted rope of clothes left by the impeller. To ensure a tangle free wash you need to set the water level to highest and load the machine only half full.
Yes, I don't like 'em.
Chris.
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Post# 14324-2/26/2002-07:15 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Programmes & Cycles)
MESSAGE: I think that programme is Euro speak for cycle+wash temp. The reason that Euro machines can quote 20 - 30 programmes is because temerature is often fixed for any given wash. Thus, taking my current Miele as an example, the programme dial has -
cottons 30 40 50 60 75 95 Centigrade (85 105 120 140 165 205 F)
min iron (perm press)30 40 50 60
delicates cold 30 40
wool / handwash cold 30 40
quickwash 40, starch, spin, drain, separate rinse, mixed wash 40.
This machine would be described in Euro terms as having 21 programmes. In US terms it could be described as having 6 cycles, cotton, min iron, delicate, wool, quick, mixed, with 7 temperatures.
*****
Post# 14325-2/26/2002-08:18 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Whats wrong with Euro?)
MESSAGE: Hi Bubbles,
I just have to respond to some of your comments about Euro appliances.
'tiny 30 inch cook top', wow that's not tiny, thats quite big. I have a standard full size gas stove with a 19.5" wide hob (cook top), yes 19.5". OK it drives me batty, far too small to get our pans on, but it is what many many UK people have. My next range will be 35" wide, that is considered huge.
'Euro-style this and that, all very uniform products where it really doesn't matter what brand name is on anything anymore' mat be because a huge percentage (80%?) of Euro washers are made by Merloni and badged as whatever. The dominance of just 1 or 2 huge players combined with globalisation really is making modern appliances very boring.
'Take those European front-loading washers for example, they cost an absolute fortune to buy, come with 30 or 40 program options', I have posted details of my Miele's 21 basic programmes, but following your seemingly scandalised comment of 30 or 40..., I just had to try to count my Miele's number of possible combinations, I got it to 677. That is teh 21 programmes, with a combination of their possible option buttons, plus all the possible combinations of 'behind the scenes' user programme variations. As well as these, the machine will itself also make variations to the cycle according to various parameters, load absorbancy and size, water temperature, oversudsing, ballance etc. Personally, I love having so many options to play with, stops it being boring.
'kneeling on a cold tile or concrete floor', we arn't all so pre-historic here, my tile floor is heated, so its very cosy to sit on when watching the machine. Also I dont kneel to load, I squat, it only takes a few seconds.
'The other thing I absolutely hate is the placement of controls at pelvic level', if you lived in a tiny Euro house, you would not want the controls anywhere else. To save space we need to stack the washer and dryer, or install them under a counter. Our houses are really tiny, I have seen plans for US houses with 1200 sq ft garages - my house is 950 sq ft total, and it is not a small house by our definitions.
'dishwashing technology in the US is eons ahead of anything that comes out of Europe'. How do you work this out. I have used a Euro dishwasher for over 10 years, and it washes very well. Euro machines heat cold water to avoid setting protein based foods. Most Euro DW detergents have enzymes to work with the gradually heated water to maximise effectiveness of the wash. Granted, cycles are longer, but my Bosch has a longest cycle of 86 mins and shortest 35 mins, so they are not too bad. Electricity usage is fairly good considering the water is heated in the machine, on the longest hotest 65C 150F wash with heated dry, usage is 1.8kWh and 27 litres 7 US gallons water. This machine is over 10 years, newer ones are even more efficient. OK, Euro machines to not have a hard food chopper, but that is no problem, the filters catch it and one empties the filter. Euro machines can be used as hot fill too, though non-enzyme detergent would work best then, as hot fill my Bosch would be 63 mins and 16 mins for the long and short wash, electricity drops to 0.3 kWh for the hot wash on hot fill.
Actually, I think I have just convinced myself to switch the DW to hot fill and give it a try. I currently have an electricty tarrif that gives me a cheaper rate at night, but I am moving to another supplier and will no longer have this option - hot fill would help save money. I know Louis won't approve, but I could try it and switch back to cold if I am not satisfied.
Well, thanks for giving us so much food for thought. I am sorry that the Australian appliance industry is in such a bad state.
*****
Post# 14326-2/26/2002-09:42 ||| scott55405 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: POD Hotpoint washer
MESSAGE: Is this a "real" Hotpoint, or the first of the GE clones?
*****
Post# 14327-2/26/2002-09:42 ||| wringingwet (Walterboro South Carolina)
SUBJECT: Kitchen aid dishwashers
MESSAGE: Hey guys
I am in the market for a new dishwasher and in my research discovered that Kitchen Aid removed the fan drying system in thier machines. This was the best feature I loved they actually dried the dishes. Do any of you know of any other machine that will dry the dishes with a fan other than condesation. I am sadden by this.
ON a grander note The ABC Wing is a dream come true thanks so much for your hard work UNI in preseriving the once shining times of the appliance world when it made a diffrence
PHilippe
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Post# 14328-2/26/2002-09:46 ||| scott55405 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: Kitchen aid dishwashers
MESSAGE: I think the fan forced drying went away when they discontinued the Hobart-type machines around 1996. I liked the feature too, although I've not had a problem with the standard issue drying in my Sears. Certain older non-Whirlpool Sears dishwashers had forced air drying, but I don't know if they offer any models that do anymore or not. Maytag used to have forced air drying, but I haven't kept up with them so don't know if that's still the case, or if their dishwashers are even theirs anymore or made by someone else or clone of another design.
*****
Post# 14329-2/26/2002-11:20 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: RE: ABC-O-Matic Wing Is Now Open!! (Splash o rama)
MESSAGE: I love the sound of the Speed Queen. The washers that Robert and Eddy have are so tranquille and still so determined.
Louis
*****
Post# 14330-2/26/2002-11:35 ||| golittlesport (California)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (my perspective)
MESSAGE: Hi Rich
The point I was trying to make was that dollar for dollar, washers cost a lot less today than they did 50 years ago. And in that period of time, very little innovation has been produced. Save for the dual action agitator (and even that was a step down from Frigidaire's pulsator and ABC's dasher) and electronic controls, nothing is different. And, of course, the Calypso, which I mentioned in my original post. Old ideas are reintroduced in a marketing blitz that makes it sound like they've invented penicillin.
I don't think a machine has to be built like a truck to be considered vintage. Any machine is going to need repair and upkeep. The Westy front loaders of the 40's and 50's were made of cheaper materials than the all-porcelain Hotpoints and Frigidaires. But the classic style and innovation that went into that early design makes it a treasure. Many of the original designs were troublesome. But with the cost of parts and labor today, after a few years it does not make sense to sink a few hundred dollars into repair when you can go get a new machine for the same price. I think in earlier times, repairs were less expensive in relation to the cost of a new machine and that may be why some machines were around longer.
I just feel today's top loaders are DULL. They all look and operate the same. Instead of spending some bucks on new designs, the manufacturers crank out the same old stuff as cheaply as they can and keep prices low.
Of course, the whole issue boils down to most consumers don't care much about washing machines. Manufacturers really don't need to woo customers with innovative features, but with low prices. Like I said, it's amazing that many people just can't bring themselves to spend more money on a washer than their grandmother did, but they will gladly shell out 10 times what their grandfather did for a automobile.
Sadly, most consumers aren't into clothes care and understanding the mechanics of their machines. They don't care which detergent or softener is used and most don't enjoy watching the clothes tumbling through a window. If only these people thought like us! :-)
There! I've released all my hot air.
Rich
*****
Post# 14331-2/26/2002-11:41 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Whats wrong with Euro?)
MESSAGE: LOL, I don't think I have to approve of you connecting your dishwasher to hot water. Is there any non-enzyme detergent for dishwashers available in the UK?
As for European washers costing a fortune, I don't agree with that. People in the US and perhaps also Australia only know the more expensive models. I don't think many European low end washers are sold there. Overhere in Europe you can get a basic washer for around US $275.-. And ofcourse TOL washers are cheaper overhere.
louis
*****
Post# 14332-2/26/2002-11:47 ||| calypso bruce (Boston)
SUBJECT: POD Hotpoint washer
MESSAGE: Scott,
I could be wrong but I beleive that this machine was made by
Ge because the main agitator is very similar to the one that
GE used.Hotpoint also did not have the solid tub anymore and the tub looked like standard issue GE. Hotpoint/GE continued
with this handwash system until the 90s.
*****
Post# 14333-2/26/2002-11:52 ||| PeterH770 (Atlanta, GA)
SUBJECT: RE: POD Hotpoint washer
MESSAGE: That's a GE. I find one of them every week at my haunts. They seem to be quite popular, but where are the old solid tub, spiral agitator ones hiding?
-ph
*****
Post# 14334-2/26/2002-11:52 ||| scott55405 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: POD Hotpoint washer
MESSAGE: Thanks Bruce, if this washer has a perforated tub then it is definitely a GE design, as the Hotpoint design used a solid tub. They must have kept the left opening lid for a while after changing the insides. Scott
*****
Post# 14335-2/26/2002-11:54 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Kirk's Castile Soap)
MESSAGE: Yo, Angus. I made it to Trader Joe's on Sunday, but this particular store didn't have any Kirk's Castile Soap. They did have Dr. Bronner's liquid and bar castile soaps, along with several other brands, but no Kirk's. I will try the other Traders that I know about in my area, as well as a whole foods supermarket. I did find some "Eco" brand liquid laundry soap at Trader's, which I will be trying on some delicates/wool/leather gloves in due course. Oh yeah, and the Trader Joe's store brand of Belgian chocolate is quite good... yum!
*****
Post# 14336-2/26/2002-11:57 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (RIP the Aussie Hoover)
MESSAGE: I know that as the CTM acronym - Chemical, Thermal, Mechanical sources of energy. Time is understood; time just increases the effect of all three parameters. It's like super-sizing it;-)
*****
Post# 14337-2/26/2002-12:00 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: Kitchen aid dishwashers
MESSAGE: My '97 Frigidaire schematics show circuitry for an exhaust fan for the drying cycle, but I'll be darned if I can see or hear that fan. I think it was just a concept.
*****
Post# 14338-2/26/2002-12:08 ||| skyblew (Saint Paul, MN)
SUBJECT: RE: 1920's (?) Estate gas range in St. Paul (Stove repair/restoration in MN)
MESSAGE: Hi - Thanks so much! If you want to e-mail me at:
skyblew4@yahoo.com
I can reply with my home and work numbers so he can contact me (if he doesn't want to give out his #).
I kind of figured that about the do-it-yourself thing, I knew it was a slim hope but I thought I'd ask. I do have a lead on someone who repaired and restored a 1940's gas range here in the Cities, I'm waiting to get their name and number to see if they can help with this one. If not, we will probably just do it piece by piece and learn as we go (*cringe*).
Thanks again for all your help!
Cari
*****
Post# 14339-2/26/2002-12:15 ||| peteski50 (New York)
SUBJECT: RE: POD Hotpoint washer (Hotpoint!)
MESSAGE: Actually Hotpoint in the POD was still their origional design
About 1975 or 1976 they went to the GE design when the lid open to the rear like the GE did. Thats how you can determine the switch was made
Peter
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Post# 14340-2/26/2002-12:16 ||| skyblew (Saint Paul, MN)
SUBJECT: RE: 1920's (?) Estate gas range in St. Paul (Estate range in St. Paul (gansky1))
MESSAGE: Hi - thanks for the suggestion on the books!
I think I'm going to buy at least one of the how-to manuals on stove repair, they look great.
The refrigerator is in good shape too and works great. However, I'm embarassed to say that it's been moved to the basement and is currently holding pop. It's tiny inside and just didn't have enough room. About all it would hold is our condiments, a little pop and a few bags of lettuce. Plus the little shelf for the ice trays dripped so that we always had water in the bottom. Other than that, the only thing wrong with it is that someone sprayed it with white appliance enamel so it should be recoated.
It hurt to move it to the basement but we just couldn't deal with how small it is inside.
Cari
*****
Post# 14341-2/26/2002-12:21 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (my perspective)
MESSAGE: The ironic thing about people wanting the cheapest washer and not caring about clothes care, is that it is possible that the same folk have paid more for a single item of clothing than the washer costs.
*****
Post# 14342-2/26/2002-12:37 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (my perspective)
MESSAGE: Rich,
Yes after I posted that I realized that I probably missed your point. I agree that most front loaders today are boring. I think this is probably because, aside from the GM Frigidaire design, most of the unusual agitator designs were found not to clean much better than a more standard back and forth agitator design. So the American washer industry standardized, more or less, on a basic design. The Calypso is probably the first major deviation from that in decades (ok, the F&P is unusual as well, but it's not American). Perhaps we'll see something along the lines of the LG turbodrum here, I don't know. Personally I think the top loader's days are numbered - there is just no way that it can compete with a front loader in terms of all three vital parameters - cleaning efficiency, energy efficiency, and water conservation. Just my opinion.
In terms of repair vs. replace, I agree 100%. When you can get a brand new washer for $300 or less today, and labor rates run about $50+/hr plus travel charges plus parts... repairing a BOL washer starts to sound uneconomic, unless you do the repairs yourself, or the washer cost well above $300. The flip side is that I got a seven year extended service agreement on my Neptune 7500, cost me all of $120, so that thing will get repaired for at least seven years if it needs any work. After that I'll probably do the work myself, if the parts are not too exorbitant.
I figure the BOL washers are so inexpensive because there are few development costs to recoup, the factories are automated, and the number of parts and internal mechanical complexity has diminished. I figure the popularity of direct drive washers is because they are cheaper to produce than belt drive washers - just as are front wheel drive cars vs. rear wheel drive cars. The public accepts the compromises that direct drive seems to introduce (shorter, more violent agitation) just as they have accepted front wheel drive's drawbacks (torque steer, less traction on snow, etc). I believe the real innovation and quality in the US washer market will belong to various front loader designs - the HE3t, albeit of foreign manufacture - is a harbinger of things to come. And the Neptune was in its own way, fairly revolutionary, bringing front loader efficiency back along with ergonomic convenience and a non-threatening appearance to consumers used to the general look of top loaders.
Perhaps the next quantum leap in washer design will have to be driven by new technologies, just as most other feverish periods of innovation have been enabled. Perhaps we'll be seeing ultrasonic agitation, with ozone generators in the washers for bleaching/disinfection. Maybe dirt will be freeze-dried off clothing, and drying will be assisted by microwaves.
*****
Post# 14343-2/26/2002-12:40 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Whats wrong with Euro?)
MESSAGE: Louis,
I think the same Miele sells for about twice as much in the US as it does in Europe. I recall someone saying that Miele claims that this is due to the expense of producing a machine that will run on US 220 voltage and frequency.
*****
Post# 14344-2/26/2002-13:33 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Whats wrong with Euro?)
MESSAGE: I think there may be much more to the Miele foreign pricing than just electric conversions. Miele machines used to be very expensive in the UK, now they are somewhat closer in price to the main brands. I commented on this to a Miele Home Economist, who replied that due to so many Mieles now being sold in the UK, they were able to buy them in at a better price from Germany.
Exchange and shipping rates will also have a big part to play.
*****
Post# 14345-2/26/2002-13:53 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: RE: POD Hotpoint washer (It's GE.)
MESSAGE: This is most certainly a GE made Hotpoint, one of the early models after the change to GE design. We had this POD once before and noticed the washer pictured in the line-up of appliances at the bottom was still the "orginal" Hotpoint design while the washer above is a GE design. You can tell it's a GE design by the 18lb. capacity, the agitator, the self cleaning filter ring around the top of the perforated basket and the dead give-away, the GE bleach dispenser in the front left corner of the opening. The left opening lid was kept (but a larger more rectangular lid than HP design which was more square) and was changed to the familiar GE notched corner lid by 1978. Remember Eddy's GE/Viking washer still had the left opening lid and that was much newer than this era.
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Post# 14346-2/26/2002-13:56 ||| Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: POD Hotpoint washer
MESSAGE: Hi Scott, that is the very first GE designed "fake" Hotpoint.
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Post# 14347-2/26/2002-13:57 ||| peteski50 (New York)
SUBJECT: RE: POD Hotpoint washer (Hotpoint )
MESSAGE: Actually my family had the Hotpoing GE design bought in 1977 and it had the lid that went to the back. It was the TOL washerand also had the hand wash adjator.
Peter
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Post# 14348-2/26/2002-14:00 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: RE: POD Hotpoint washer (Hotpoint )
MESSAGE: A friend of my mother's had this machine in the POD and I thought it was the most beautiful machine I'd ever seen! Since then, I've seen much prettier!
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Post# 14349-2/26/2002-14:07 ||| peteski50 (New York)
SUBJECT: RE: POD Hotpoint washer (Hotpoint)
MESSAGE: Actually JCPenny used to sell the washer with the lid opening to the back and called it Pencrest. It was exactly like the Hotpoint GE with the hand wash adj.
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Post# 14350-2/26/2002-14:46 ||| PeterH770 (Atlanta, GA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (my perspective)
MESSAGE: Only frontloaders without a window are boring. Otherwise, were do you get the excitement of seeing whether or not you oversuds, or whether the load is holding so much water that it streams down the window when spinning first starts?
The American washer market only standardized because of consolidation and corporate buying/selling/merging/take over. When you are left with only 4 independent manufacturers, the competition is more defined, but the innovations come out much less frequently. It's certainly more fun having 6 or 10 companies trying something new rather than 4.
American people "settle" for today's laundry products because they figure it's better to have their own machine than to go to a laundromat. The only way you'd see a revolution is if people actually stopped buying the machines, started going to laundromats, and saved their nickels and dimes for the imported machines. When the European makers start taking more market share away from American makers, you'll then see a shift in products and quality.
-ph
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Post# 14351-2/26/2002-14:50 ||| PeterH770 (Atlanta, GA)
SUBJECT: RE: POD Hotpoint washer (Penncrest)
MESSAGE: The Penncrest machines were just very slightly different. The fins of the agitator were slightly offset on some model years. I thought I was seeing things the first time I saw it. I guess the offset would cause more turbulence and pull the load under when it turned in one direction than the other. Early Penncrest machines also had the HUGE consoles with big dials. They are neat to find, just too bad they are plain GE under the hood.
-ph
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Post# 14352-2/26/2002-15:18 ||| scott55405 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: POD Hotpoint washer
MESSAGE: Hi Robert and everybody, thanks for your answers! Looking at the picture and description again now, I can kind of see the GE "bodystyle", and of course reading about the filter ring, the same system my much later Hotpoint had. I just had not realized that the lid configuration had carried over, and the control panel still looks kind of old line Hotpointish. Maybe they thought if they did it gradually no one would notice? LOL
Weren't there also Penncrest laundry appliances made earlier in the form of the coaxial Hotpoints?
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Post# 14353-2/26/2002-15:25 ||| golittlesport (California)
SUBJECT: RE: POD Hotpoint washer (Penncrest)
MESSAGE: Hi Peter!
I worked at JCPenney when in college. I sold shoes. (Oh, the stories I could tell you! ...but we won't go there right now.)
Now, I may be dating myself, but I used to check out the washers and they were the Easy-style solid tubbed spiralator with burp-up lint filter.
Rich
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Post# 14354-2/26/2002-15:29 ||| golittlesport (California)
SUBJECT: RE: POD Hotpoint washer
MESSAGE: Hi Scott!
Yeah...like when no one noticed that WCI "switched" over Frigidaire to Westinghouse/Kelvinator clones. I can just hear them..."Just keep the control panel similar, no one will notice what's inside." Ha! These manufacturers are sneaky! ;-)
Rich
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Post# 14355-2/26/2002-15:43 ||| nmaineman36 (Portland Maine)
SUBJECT: RE: Kitchen aid dishwashers
MESSAGE: Frigidaire does have a drying fan built into the door of the dishwasher. It acts more like a blower wheel in a dryer pulling the air thru the dishwasher. Maytag doesnt have forced air either ..it may look like it does since it has an outlet in the front corner of the dishwasher but thats just static vent to let the air in as the wax motor opens the opening under the control panel. It does a good job and the dishwasher is well insulated. I have seen times where I will wash my dishes at 7pm and the next morning they are still warm. Talk about insulation. The European dishwashers like Asko and Miele do have fans. The Asko condenses and the Miele uses whats called TurboThermic Plus ..pulling the moist air and mixing it with cool room air and then exhausting it in the kitchen.
I do remember how my moms KitchenAid KD-67 would dry...all the steam would come out below the door ..it was something to see but it would melt whatever was above the air outlet in the tank if it was plastic.
Drifting off here I have seen more Whirlpool and Kenmore dishwashers less than 5 years old going to the scrap heap. And not to mention Maytags as well. Kinda sad really in our throw away society that things just dont last like they used to.
Mike
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Post# 14356-2/26/2002-15:56 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Neptune not boring)
MESSAGE: Sorry, I don't agree that the Neptune is boring. True, a window would add another dimension to the washing experience. If I had to chose between a Neptune with a window, and one without, of course I'd chose the one with a window, even if it cost more. However, I don't need a window to know whether or not the suds level is appropriate (no suds is most appropriate!), or if the laundry is absorbing water. If it had a window, and I saw a low suds level, or no suds, I'd still have to open it up and test the feel of the water to make sure there was enough alkali to get a good wash result. The machine has an automatic water level detection that handles the question of whether or not enough water was added.
I think the Neptune is plenty exciting as is. It has a air of mystery about it... it goes through its paces quietly and efficiently, and then at the end there's that almost musical chime, then I open the door, with the dramatic in-tub lighting, to see the clean clothes plastered against the gleaming drum. I always get a little thrill when I start a load in the Neptune, because it's so cool. Besides, I have other things to do besides watching every wash cycle!
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Post# 14357-2/26/2002-15:57 ||| DADoES (El Campo, TX)
SUBJECT: RE: POD Hotpoint washer (JCPenney, Gibson's, and shoes)
MESSAGE: Hiya, Rich.
Yes, I vaguely remember Penncrest with spiral agitators and burp-up filters, and then later the Hotpoint/GE style with the filter ring. I found them fascinating, rather different from the other choice of Kenmore.
The JCPenney store of my childhood had appliances on the 2nd floor, and it was always my goal to get us up there somehow, even if my mother was only going to look at clothes on the 1st floor.
There was a discount chain in this area name of Gibson's back in the 60s and 70s, that handled Hotpoint for a while, and I recall those of the POD vintage. I always thought they were handsome machines.
(Shoe stories? Do tell!)
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Post# 14358-2/26/2002-15:59 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: Kitchen aid dishwashers
MESSAGE: Well, that's good news. I have no complaints about how the Frigidaire dries, and I never use the heated dry. Of course the bottoms of cups etc that collect water are still wet in the morning, but that's not the DW's fault.
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Post# 14359-2/26/2002-16:05 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: Kitchen aid dishwashers (Frigmorenoise)
MESSAGE: PS-The exhaust fan is the only mechanical process on the Frigidaire dishwasher that is quiet!
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Post# 14360-2/26/2002-16:11 ||| peteski50 (New York)
SUBJECT: RE: POD Hotpoint washer (Frigidaire )
MESSAGE: The best is when they said it washed just as well as the 1/18
(sad)
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Post# 14361-2/26/2002-18:55 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Reply to post # 14325)
MESSAGE: Hullo Herr-Miele,
Hope you are well since last we communicated. I also hope that you read my post # 14199, that explained some of the questions you had regarding my comments on top-loading dishwashers being more ergonomic (easier to load), in my opinion.
Actually I have to correct myself regarding the measurement on cooktops and ranges available in Oz. The standard width that is most commonly installed now, is approximately 23" not 30". It would be so nice to have a standard of 30" for the width of cookers like they do in the US. One can get larger cooktops, I have a Smeg that measures about 36", but now everywhere one looks they are selling and installing the smaller appliances - and they are not that cheap either. I just think that with a lot of products we get less and pay more now - it is the marketing that annoys me in particular.
I grew up in Germany during the 60's and early 70's, so I am very familiar with the appliances that have dominated the market there. I moved to the US in the mid-seventies and later came to Australia. America was an eye-opener for me, Germany then or now, has only a fraction of what is available in the US. Australia used to predominantly sell American technology until the mid-eighties. Now its really only American fridges and some washers. All other appliances have gone European in features and quality (e.g. ranges, cooktops and dishwashers).
In a nutshell, I don't find European appliances that inspiring, they also haven't changed that much in the last 20 years (contrary to the over-eager claims of many of the repondents to this board). I remember those woeful top-loading agitator washers that were produced by companies like Miele in the sixties, it is no wonder that agitator washers disappeared real quick from the German laundry scene. They never were like anything coming close to American washers, either in features nor durability. The Mieles and Bosches of today are still only white, use water, soap and electricity and have a round window -how exciting is that? Apart from the new Dyson (which was probably designed by Swatch), I really don't see a lot of new design variation. I suppose manufacturers intentionally stick with proven designs and are not into risk-taking when it comes to being innovative.
When I learnt how to use my first American style top-loader, I never looked back to those dull, inflexible and inconvenient tumble washers that dominate the European laundry scape. I like my appliances to be BIG, easy to use and convenient and I also like the option of either doing a full 12 lbs wash or the occasional (emergency) single item - and of course any load size in-between (naturally I reduce the fill accordingly). My next machine will have two variable speeds and 14 lbs capacity (another Speed Queen naturally).
I also like the ability of being able to stop, fast-forward or repeat any part of the cycle that I have chosen (or simply let it run its course). Being able to add stray items that were accidentally dropped on the way to the laundry, during the cycle is great. Being able to remove that accidental non-colorfast item, that threatens to ruin my laundry day without having to drain out and re-start the entire cycle, is another bonus (all you do is lift the lid and take it out).
Not having your laundry floor flooded if there should ever be a mechanical breakdown mid-cycle and being able to extract your washing from the machine immediately, without having to wait for the repairer, is a plus. I know how hard it is to get your clothes out of a front-loader when things go really wrong.
Front-loaders over here are more costly to buy and to fix, according to the experts of the repair trade that I have spoken to. They supposedly develop glitches with greater frequency than top-loaders and they don't last as long. I was also told by a number of these experts that far too often, items accidentally left in pockets, find their way in between the inner and outer drums in f/l machines, which apparently can cause all kinds of expensive mechanical probs - something that is very unlikely to happen with top-loaders.
Okay, I admit that I exaggerated a little about the number of cycles. I do think, though, that European machines have far too many cycles (and they still take too long). In my opinion all that is needed is a regular, permanent-press, handwash and wool cycle, everything else, in my opinion, is a gimmick.
Although my current machine only has one wash and spin speed, I find that it is very efficient at cleaning and not at all rough on my clothes (as is falsely claimed by the advocates of front-loaders). I even wash all my delicate handwashables in the machine, I turn the items inside out and place them in coarse-weave washbags, which works very well. I can wash my curtains, sneakers, my king-size dooner-cover, big woolen blankets (which would definitely unbalance a tumbler and be far too big for your average 8 to 10 pound machine). I have even washed an old suede jacket (as an experiment) in washer and it came out like new - no dry-cleaner would have done a better job, nor could I have done this in a tumble washer. My machine also comes in handy as a spin dryer only.
A fifteen-minute wash is not always long enough for really dirty clothes, but in that situation I soak. Top-loaders are perfect for soaking, it doesn't require energy or extra water and is recommended for the new enzyme detergents anyway. All that I need to do is to start the cycle, let it run for a couple of minutes before I switch off the machine. After whatever time I nominate (usually between half an hour to an hour), I simply switch the machine back on and let it complete the cycle, no hassle or pain. I also don't feel its necessary to have all the different temps. Most clothes these days can't be washed above 60 C (140 F) anyway. Cold washing is very common over here, unlike in Europe. I prefer a warm to hot wash though, particularly for towels and linen, but the occasional cold wash does the job too.
My relos in Europe, whom I see quite often, wash in Miele front-loaders. Their clothes do not have a cleaner or better appearance to mine. I would even venture to say that their whites are dull, which probably is also due to the types of detergents available over there.
In terms of quality, I don't know of many European brands that build machines to last more than 20 years. In the US and here in Oz I have come across so many people with appliances older than that. This really seems to be less common in Europe. The availability of working vintage machines, that appear to be around in the US, is astounding. I don't care what anyone says, but from my own observations, American appliances are generally much sturdier built than European and Asian.
Regarding dishwashers, US machines have always performed better than anything out of Europe. Here they are sold purely on economy (they sprinkle your dishes) and stainless steel interiors being more hygienic (bollocks!!), polypropylene is just as good actually. The US machines I have used always seemed to be more capacious, particularly the top-baskets seemed much bigger than in Euro-machines and easier to load. No pre-rinsing required and I don't like having to clean food residue from filters - there should be no residue after washing. The holes in the spray arms of Euro-machines are smaller to give a more conncentrated spray, which makes them clogg up with residue if solid food waste finds its way into the system. It is a real pain having to unclogg them - too much fiddling around with filters and spray arms. All the machines on the Oz market currently require the pre-rinsing of dishes, as per manufacturers recommendation. How much does that add to the overall consumption of water once a machine has been loaded up and switched on? It all sounds so good when they say "this machine only uses x amount of water per cycle", I'd rather have a machine that uses a little more water, but does the job right from the start. Believe me, built-in waste disposals in a dishwasher make the world of difference.
Also using hot water instead of cold, regarding the baking on of protein, has never been an issue. Usually the first rinse is tepid enough to prevent this from happening. I also like the door locking mechanism on US machines better. Before you can open the door during the cycle, one pushes a little lever from the on to off position. This really stops the machine before the door is opened. My two year old nephew has already opened my current dishwasher during operation and it didn't stop straight away. Water splashed out and it was hot and caustic. Luckily he didn't cop any in his eyes.
Just thinking about the GE machine that I had to replace, it was a very sophisticated appliance and I still haven't seen anything that comes remotely close to it.
Anyway, I better leave off now. I didn't intend for this post to become a major epic and I am going to the beach in a minute.
Don't get me wrong, I am not criticising people who want to buy European, everybody should buy what they want. You are also right about US appliances being largely unsuited to the European market. I know that utilities are very expensive and space is at a premium there. But I live in Australia and here things are a little different, I thnk that going European for us is going backwards - it really is less for more in the money sense.
Gotta go now
Be good
Bubbles
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Post# 14362-2/26/2002-18:58 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: POD Hotpoint washer (dispensers & agitators)
MESSAGE: I have so much to learn about top-loaders, but at least they are fascinating.
What is the box-like thing attached to the lid of this machine? I assume it is a dispenser, guessing softener. I know its not bleach as gansky1 describes the bleach dispenser, though looking again, I can see a small dispenser to theright of the tub that looks like it could be softener. That would only leave powder for the lid mounted one. How does this work,I assume it does not dump the powder on top of the load when the lid is closed as that would gives clumps.
I love the nesting agitator idea, the handwash one does look very gentle. I have used a dual agitator machine, a Servis twin tub, on this the top part removed leaving only the vanes at the bottom, though I can't remember ever using this feature.
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Post# 14363-2/26/2002-18:59 ||| washrfreak (Dallas)
SUBJECT: RE: Kitchen aid dishwashers (Frigidaire vs Asko)
MESSAGE: My Frigidaire experience is very different from yours Rich. Perhaps it is the specific model. I have the Gallery Professional model. I also have an Asko 1555. I would rate them about the same for noise level - basically I can't hear them unless I'm right next to them. I might even rate the Frigidaire slightly quieter.
My Frigidaire definately has forced air drying. You can see the fan in the door - and it shoots steam halfway across the room during the drying cycle. (You can't hear the fan on either the Frigidaire or the Asko).
Both clean great.
Neither has needed repairs.
Of course the Frigidaire cost less than half what I paid for the Asko -- but then the Asko has a light in the tub and a knife rack.
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Post# 14364-2/26/2002-18:59 ||| angus (Fairfield, CT.)
SUBJECT: RE: POD Hotpoint washer
MESSAGE: And the dryer is a dead giveaway of the GE design - save for the control panel. Keep in mind though that GE did not begin using the dual agitators in GE badged machines until around 1990.. the beginning of the end...........
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Post# 14365-2/26/2002-19:01 ||| angus (Fairfield, CT.)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Kirk's Castile Soap)
MESSAGE: I have tried the TJ's brand of chocolates and was also quite pleased. There should be a way for you to get your hands on some Kirk's....... perhaps a website?
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Post# 14366-2/26/2002-19:17 ||| Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: POD Hotpoint washer (dispensers & agitators)
MESSAGE: That box is a detergent dispenser that it used to automatically dispense detergent into the wash cycle after a soak cycle. That way the user wouldn’t have to return to the washer after an automatic soak to add more detergent. The 1947 GE AW-6 washer had a very similar dispenser.
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Post# 14367-2/26/2002-19:20 ||| gizmo (Great Ocean Road, Victoria, Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Whats wrong with Euro?)
MESSAGE: In bubbles' defence, I don't think he meant that Euro washers are overpriced IN EUROPE. HE meant that here in Australia European appliances are generally very expensive, even for basic versions. I don't however agree with his general dismissal of Euro technology/design. But European appliances are designed for European houses and tastes, they sometimes fail to make changes to their design to better reflect the different situation in their export markets. In Australia most houses have generously sized seperate laundry rooms, so larger machines for bigger capacity sell well. Most Aussies wash in cold water, so heaters are largely unwanted. Of course, some people choose the European version exactly BECAUSE of these differences. There are Aussies with tiny laundries or a washer in the bathroom, there are Aussies who want a washer to heat its water. Variety is the spice of life.
In Australia the term "made in Europe" is often used as a way of claiming/implying that the product is of the highest design and quality, and thus worth a huge price. European appliances = quality and exclusivity. Of course we all here know that Europe makes its fair share of crap, just like USA, Australia and Asian countries make good and crap products too.
In Australian marketing, made in USA = tough and dependable, not as hi-tech but long lasting. So US stuff sells for quite a premium too. But we all know about GE top loaders, don't we... but it still commands a premium price in Aus.
Best wishes
Chris
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Post# 14368-2/26/2002-19:36 ||| gizmo (Great Ocean Road, Victoria, Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Switched Reluctance Motors)
MESSAGE: Thanks Sudsmaster.
I have never heard of switched reluctance motors, I have assumed that they always had permanent magnets. It's a new concept to me.
What actually is "reluctance" in an electrical sense??
Perhaps stepper motors can be designed with or without permanent magnets? Some stepper motors definitely DO have PM's. The F&P Smart Drive has permanent magnets around its disc. Oatley Electronics in Australia (oatleyelectronics.com) have small stepper motor kits to experiment with.
Perhaps the motor in the earlier F&P, the Gentle Annie, is a switched reluctance motor. I haven't yet pulled one apart. It has two sets of windings, each a three phase winding. One set of windings is used for wash, the other is used for spin. the windings are electronically switched like stepper motors are. The motor has a tiny pulley and the agitator has a large one, so motor speeds are high in the gentle annie. It spins at 1000 rpm so at a rough guess the motor would be doing 12000 rpm. The smart drives of course, the agitator shaft is the motor shaft, so motor speed = agitator speed.
Thanks for the info.
Chris.
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Post# 14369-2/26/2002-19:45 ||| gizmo (Great Ocean Road, Victoria, Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (reply to post 14223 - arrrooohhh)
MESSAGE: Your link mentioned the closure of Hoover's factory at Meadowbank, where the Hoover FL was made.
So guess what else was made there at Meadowbank???
Chris.
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Post# 14370-2/26/2002-19:53 ||| kirk280980 (Lincoln UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Whats wrong with Euro?)
MESSAGE: FWIW, I've tried using my Zanussi dishwasher on hot fill connection, and it seemed to work very well. I couldn't see any difference in the wash efficiency, but did save around 15 minutes per cycle, which was a big advantage. Not sure if I actually saved much energy, as the model I have only uses 19 litres of water for a complete wash cycle, and therefore doesn't have much to heat anyway.
Since then, I've switched back to using cold fill, as I now use Finish tablets, which contain enzymes and work better on a 50*C wash from a cold start. Before that, I was using regular Finish powder, which is better suited to normal high-temperature washing. Therefore, I think it really depends on the type of detergent you use.
You could always rig your dishwasher connection to both the hot and cold supplies, using a Y-piece. Then you can control whether you use hot or cold water by turning the appropriate tap on or off. Might be worth a try!
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Post# 14371-2/26/2002-19:57 ||| kirk280980 (Lincoln UK)
SUBJECT: RE: POD Hotpoint washer
MESSAGE: That looks like a really interesting washer - love the idea of the two-in-one agitator. I presume the device fitted to the underside of the lid is a dispenser to add detergent to the tub after the pre-soak cycle? It sounds like the lint filter works on a similar principle to the type used in direct-drive Whirlpool TLs.
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Post# 14372-2/26/2002-20:07 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: RE: POD Hotpoint washer (dispensers & agitators)
MESSAGE: Do you have any idea how this box opened after the pre-wash/soak cycle?
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Post# 14373-2/26/2002-20:10 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: RE: POD Hotpoint washer (dispensers & agitators)
MESSAGE: Left side bleach, which just funneled the liquid into the outer tub, not really a "true" dispenser, but allowed you to add it at the beginning of the cycle without having to wait for the agitation to start.
The dispenser on the right side would have been fabric softener, but I don't know how that worked, it may have been a container with a solenoid valve that emptied into the outer tub at the start of the rinse cycle fill.
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Post# 14374-2/26/2002-20:13 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: RE: POD Hotpoint washer
MESSAGE: This was a recirculating filter, but channeled into a ring around the top of the wash basket. When the water spun out of the tub during drain, it would carry most of the lint out and then a spray rinse would flush it again. I remember most GE style Hotpoints with the filter ring had the fill flume directed into the filter ring, thereby making the spray rinse ineffective. Most of the water was thrown out of the filter ring and into the outer tub, never reaching the clothes load at all.
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Post# 14375-2/26/2002-20:24 ||| kirk280980 (Lincoln UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Neptune not boring)
MESSAGE: As much as I like to see what's happening inside a washer, I'd have to agree with you about the lack of a window on a Neptune. When it actually comes to using the washer on a daily basis, it's something you don't really think about. I rarely watch my Bosch as it runs, other than the occasional quick glance, because real life dictates otherwise. I'm too busy doing other things to sit myself down in front of it and watch every single cycle.
Perhaps Maytag could add a small sight glass, say a few inches wide, to the door of the Neptune, seeing as a full-size window is unworkable. Maybe a tasteful oval shape, to match the "hood ornament" they put on the top slant of the door. While they're at it, a pushbutton which illuminates the drum for a few seconds, so you can take a quick peek through the sight glass just to check how things are coming along.
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Post# 14376-2/26/2002-20:58 ||| kirk280980 (Lincoln UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Whats wrong with Euro?)
MESSAGE: On the whole, I think you're going to pay over the odds for anything which is even only slightly "unusual" in your particular market. And let's not forget that products which sell in huge quantities are often cheaper. Imported products sometimes only appeal to a certain niche market, and sell in fewer quantities as a result. That often translates into a higher purchase price.
Country of origin is used for marketing purposes here in the UK, too:
German made = great engineering and attention to detail; appeals to technology lovers.
Italian made = sleek styling; appeals to the "lifestyle conscious" (Zanussi in particular use this marketing tactic).
US made = BIG, dependable, unfussy; appeals to mainly to men, from what I've noticed, and those with little time for frills and gimmicks.
British made = affordable, geared to the needs of Mr & Mrs Average; appeals to patriotic types, and those who just want the job done without anything special in terms of features.
The Dyson washer, of course, fits into all of the above categories. It's high-tech, big, a must-have in terms of styling, and British made. People really seem to like it for all those reasons.
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Post# 14377-2/26/2002-21:07 ||| jgp57 (dearborn michigan)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (maytag)
MESSAGE: i have used a neptune for about two years i like it very much the only concern i have is mold around the door. this can happen if you dont clean the door seal area.jgp57
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Post# 14378-2/26/2002-21:15 ||| kirk280980 (Lincoln UK)
SUBJECT: RE: POD Hotpoint washer
MESSAGE: Ah, I see what you mean now. Kind of like the Filter Flo (aka Filter Clean in the UK), only it cleans itself centrifugally during the spin cycle, rather than being scraped clean by the user.
That does indeed sound like a rather ineffective spray rinse design. Even without seeing one, I can imagine how the water would just bounce right off the spinning filter ring. In effect, I suppose it just flushed the water straight down the drain, without it actually doing any good.
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Post# 14379-2/26/2002-21:46 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Kirk's Castile Soap)
MESSAGE: Oh sure, I could order direct from Kirk's. But that takes all the fun out of it. Plus, the price you quoted from TJ's is cheaper!
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Post# 14380-2/26/2002-21:57 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Neptune not boring)
MESSAGE: Thanks Kirk. I think you're the first person to actually agree with me on this one. Although I have also proposed a sight window (or a small tv camera) as a window substitute, I hadn't thought of the oval design, that sounds idea. It might have to be offset though, as the vent tube and steel counterbalance plate take up the center of the door interior.
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Post# 14381-2/26/2002-22:00 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (maytag)
MESSAGE: Never had a mold problem with mine. You might call Maytag and tell them about the mold problem. They have a free upgrade kit, the PAH kit, which fixes this along with a few other problems. Just to make sure they don't hesitate, tell them you also hear a screeching sound when the machine is draining.
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Post# 14382-2/26/2002-22:30 ||| joeekaitis (Rialto, California, USA)
SUBJECT: ABC-O-Matic washer action
MESSAGE: Did anyone else notice a resemblance between the ABC-O-Matic's rollover action and that of a Frigidaire Pulsator or JetCone agitator?
Uncanny! :)
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Post# 14383-2/26/2002-22:35 ||| appnut (Temple, TX)
SUBJECT: RE: Kitchen aid dishwashers
MESSAGE: Phillippe, Frigidaire (and only their TOL models) are the only brand I know of that has forced air drying anymore).
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Post# 14384-2/26/2002-22:39 ||| appnut (Temple, TX)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (my perspective)
MESSAGE: It's not hot air, it's a breath of fresh air. Only the guy behind the statements is ur ......
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Post# 14385-2/26/2002-00:04 ||| arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Programmes & Cycles)
MESSAGE: Hi Herr Miele.
Given your formula a top load Hoover 750LB, (a trypical 3 cycle top loader) Has 33 cycles!
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Post# 14386-2/26/2002-00:11 ||| arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Whats wrong with Euro?)
MESSAGE: All the more reason why it is so sad the Hoover Electra is no longer with us. Just think perhaps if Hoover wasnt always going through restructures at the hands of new owners what it could of dont with the Electra. Consider front loaders ARE becoming more popular, no doubt Hoover would of made a bigger model.
As for the heater part I know a lot of people who are buying front loaders are taking advantage about the heater part. They cas sanitise different things etc.
But just like anywhere it takes a lot to change peoples laundry habits to a front loader and the Hoover was always the best compromise, feature, time performance and cost.
I love top loaders too. My forst love of washing macfhines came from my Nans Wilkins Service twin tub. I love different agitator designs and the ABC - What a show. But for all practical purposes tumble action is the way to go. Im converted!
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Post# 14387-2/27/2002-03:20 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: ABC-O-Matic washer action
MESSAGE: Hi,
I certainly noticed that the ABC produced a very good roll-over that did look similar to what I saw on a Frigidaire video. Watching the agitator motion before the wash, I did not expect that sort of roll-over, I had expected it to just stir the clothes around.
I am not familiar enough with TLs so I did not know whether this was unusual or whether many do it. The TL type that I have used most was a Hotpoint twin tub with a spiralator, and I dont remember it having a roll-over action like the ABC or Frigidaire.
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Post# 14388-2/27/2002-03:25 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Neptune not boring)
MESSAGE: Suds,
I am with you, having used a basic mechanical control Neptune, I loved it. I have never known a washer so quiet, I had to lift the dispenser lid and put my ear to it, just to hear it running. The mech-control Neptune is a fabulous looking washer, I think better looking that the LCD panel ones.
A window in the door would be cool, I love the idea of drum lighting like you have.
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Post# 14389-2/27/2002-03:54 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Neptune not boring)
MESSAGE: Hi Kirk,
Your right when I think about it, don't watch the washer on a daily basis, like you say just a glance in to check on progress as I walk by. However, I do find the window very useful when washing things that need special attention, like using non-default settings. For instance, the window means that I can check that I have got the water level high enough.
I love your idea of a light that you can turn on from the control panel to see inside during the wash. This would be useful on any FL, so much easier and less nerdy than shining a torch (flashlight) through the window on those occassions that you really need to be able to see what is happening.
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Post# 14390-2/27/2002-04:14 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Whats wrong with Euro?)
MESSAGE: HI Louis,
I am going to have to check in the supermarket for non-enzyme DW detergent. For a couple of years now, I have used Ecover tablets which have enzymes. I had an old bottle of store brand non-compact powder, so I checked that and it does have enzymes, I was surprised.
I will report back after I have checked the shops.
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Post# 14391-2/27/2002-04:24 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: POD Hotpoint washer
MESSAGE: Kirk,
We have our own example of a 2 in 1 agitator here in the UK. The Servis twin tub from the early 80s had a similar agitator. On this, the top half removed, taking the vertical vanes away and leaving the horizontal vanes at the bottom. I have done a web search for a picture, but to no avail.
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Post# 14392-2/27/2002-04:27 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Whats wrong with Euro?)
MESSAGE: Kirk,
The Y connector to control hot and cold fill is exactly what I have done with my washer, works very well too, unless I forget to switch back after fill then I get hot rinses. I had thought of using this on the DW so I could do a cold pre-rinse.
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Post# 14393-2/27/2002-04:33 ||| arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Meadowbank.)
MESSAGE: All of Hoovers products were made at Meadowbank. Top and Front load washers, twin tubs and vacuum cleaners.
Is there anything else exciting I didnt know about?
I remember the Hoover factory because when crossing the bridge over the Parramatta river from Rhodes/Concord on trips up north, I was always greeted by a huge building with HOOVER written on it. I always wanted to visit it as a child.
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Post# 14394-2/27/2002-04:39 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Reply to # 14386, Hi arrrooohhh)
MESSAGE: Hi arrrooohhh,
Thanks for your other post a few days back and the link, it was interesting reading.
I do agree that it is a shame that we are producing less and less in this country. I know Hoover, at this point, has only its top-loading washers on offer. When you visit their website, they don't even list their floor care products. They must be waiting for something. Maybe, since Maytag now has a fully-owned subsidiary in Oz, they will buy back the Hoover brand name? That would be the only thing to make any real sense. I gather that any future Hoover horizontals will be imports, fat chance of anything locally produced unfortunately.
I do remember the Hoover front-loader that you discussed in previous posts. Must admit that I wasn't impressed, it was, as you said, quite basic. I remember the early eighties models still had enamel drums, which is not such a good idea for front-loaders, too much tumbling of metal buttons and zippers against the enamel.
My family actually owned a f/l Hoover (don't remember the model no.) in Germany and we were spoilt. It was a beaut machine, with detergent dispenser, 4.5 kg capacity, stainless steel interior and 1000 rpm, going back to 1972. We also had the matching dryer to go with it, which was vented to the outside.
The Simpson front-loader is made somewhere in eastern Europe, so future f/l Hoovers will probably be the same. I reckon that eventually both Hoover and Simpson top-loaders will very likely end up coming from somewhere in Asia, that would also seem a very plausible future direction. Why have Australians gainfully employed? It makes absolutely no sense does it?
I must say that Simpson have a nice product with the Enduro, Encore and Enviro? washers. They are a better quality machine to the Delta models that were unleashed on the unsuspecting public during the eighties. What a shocker they were, all plastic with a cardboard (or pressed wood shavings? or some other water-absorbent)backing. I nearly fell over when I saw that. Simpson used to make beautiful machines prior to that, even American style pidgeon pairs with matching full-size dryers, and I loved the control panels of their old fluid drive automatics and semi-automatics. Wood grain panels and ivory buttons with a slide-along program indicator. I also found the vertically ribbed wash basket design really great. They were very beautiful machines.
As you may have gathered, I am a convert to top-loaders and if you read my rather lengthy post # 14361, I went into tirades about why.
You did say that large capacity machines are unnecessary, because they are usually not used to full capacity. I live in a six person household with one very young child and my six kilo Kleenmaid gets filled up to the brim with regular frequency. In my opinion, any households, with three or more people, are better served buying machines that have a capacity > than 5 kilos, everything else is just mucking around. My next machine is going to be even bigger.
I also understand that water restrictions are a reality in Australia, but neither Port Macquarie nor Coffs Harbour will run out of water. The waterboards there should busy themselves in finding workable solutions rather than telling the public to stop using water, that is not what they are paid to do. Water is a renewable resource and not a blackmailing tool to extract more money for decreased services - which is another current and very worrying trend with our government and service institutions (they are abusing green issues for propaganda purposes motivated purely by pecuniary agendas). The people they employ are now all graduates, more interested in ripping off the public than finding workable and ingenious solutons to problems. "When in doubt, put up the price!" Yeah right, my butt!
I gurantee you that, even if 90% of households in Oz continue to use top-loaders well into the next decades, this will not make any significant contribution to any water-shortages that we may experience from time to time. Oz is a nation of droughts and floods - that is how it has always been - no need for 'gobal warming' scare tactics here. I think that other more effective solutions are at hand to save water, rather than villifying top-loaders - shame on you arrrooohhh, lol.
Top-loaders have also been improved over the last ten years in terms of resource consumption and performance. My six kilo machine uses about 150 litres all up. There are still many front-loaders which use only marginally less, requiring between 20 and 25 litres per fill (multiply by 5 for a normal cycle and you get pretty close to 140). There are other more important concerns that should be addressed before we condemn top-loaders to the scrap heap.
I will never relinquish anyway - no tumblers in my house, unless its a Neptune with window, lol.
Lets face it, no matter how many windows you put into a washing machine, front-loaders will never offer the same conveniences and features of good quality top-loaders. As long as there are people like me, there will be a market for these wonderful machines.
Front-loaders, in my view, are mainly geared for single or two person households. Which are located in overpriced inner-city apartments, with paper-thin walls or rising damp, bad plumbing and not enough space to swing a cat. Anyway, the most prudent choice for water conservation are twin-tubs, but I can't see our young green-conscious people using those. They might get ribbed by their mates and get soap suds on their sensitive hands.
I am being a little tongue in cheek here arrrhhhoo, so don't take everything I say here too seriously or personal.
Catch ya later
Mr-bubbles
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Post# 14395-2/27/2002-04:49 ||| arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Clothes Care)
MESSAGE: My Sister is a prime example of that.
She had to hand wash items by herself on one occasion when Mummy darling wasnt there to do it for her and she came and asked me why the fabric softener went funny when she poured it into soapy water. When I explained that you put it in the rinse water she looked horrified at me. She has no idea about vacuuming either. We got a new vacuum cleaner and because it was so strong the suction she turned the power down low!!!! She hasnt vacuumed since.
I would hate to see the state of her house when she moves out one day. At least she can cook. She has that going for her. I burn two minute noodles.
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Post# 14396-2/27/2002-05:29 ||| arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Reply to # 14386, Hi arrrooohhh)
MESSAGE: I come from Bankstown, so dont have any illusions about me being a pouncy yuppie. Those sort look at you like you have a disease when they find out you come from such a place at Bankstown. Like how do we survive with out any trendy restarunts and cafes and theatres etc? We go to their suburbs of course!!!!
The Simpson front loader is made by Gorenje of Slovenia and the Hoover is by Beko in Turkey. The Hoover and Simpson top loaders are now all produced in the same Adelaide factory, and are all Simpson mechanicals. The difference with the Hoover range is that its wash bowl and mechanism is mounted to the bade frame (the BOSS system they advertise) while the Simpson is a top suspended machine. The bottom mounting in the Hoover definately makes the machine look so much more solid in the store, and No doubt smoother running in operation that a top mounted machine. I dont know about them being replaced with Asian machines. F&P, Hoover and Simpson take about 60% of the washer market combined. Asian machines despite their price and looks just dont really catch on like you would expect. I dont think people like impellers. Hitachi made agiator machines in the late 80's early 90's but reverted to impellers again.
Remember also too that people have been warning the Ford Falcon and Holden Commodore are about to die as long as I can remember but they are still here and selling strong. Buying Australian is still important too a lot of people and if an industry like that would pull out all together there would be an enormous out cry. Fisher and Paykel has also spend a lot of money on building an Australian factory in Queensland.
Hoover Floorcare is an entirely separate company. Email wasnt interested in purchasing Hoovers vacuum cleaners operation. The Upright Hoovers are imported from the States we get the Windtunnel models. There are also some Korean made barrel types. The EX Bug have been replaced but offered nice features I thought. 1600 and a power head for about $500. For some reason though places like Grace Bros and Retravision dont stock Hoover vacuums, while you can easily find them in Godfreys (of course) Harvey Norman, David Jones and Bing Lee.
The Hoover front loader I am thinking about was the Electra series, which had a stainless steel drum, temperature control buttons, rinse hold feature and the OPTION of a heater.
Yes I am sure that Governments can find a better solution to handling out resources but I wont hold my breath for that one. I just know I would prefer to use 60 or 70 litres in a front loader and have a minute more in the shower every morning. The thirstiest front loader is a Neptune at 100 litres. The next being LG at 80. They too have dropped their water consumption over the years. My mum washed for a family of five in a medium size Simpson Delta 10 for years just fine. My Aunty washed for seven in a Simpson Minimatic. I too love the old Simpsons. Tehre was a seventies model that featured rocker switches for water level/temp etc, instead of knobs. I loved that machine. I LOVE washing machines of all kinds full stop. I would just purchase for myself a front loader.
Even when I have a family I am sure our needs will be catered for by a larger capacity front loader. LG's 7kg models are very popular. The Maytag Neptune I am sure will inspire imitators sooner or later.
You also say the style and design of front loaders hasnt changed. Not that much has changed with Top loaders either. They too have white knobs on white panels and a square lid on top. They dont get any unglier either than the current GE, on the other hand the Maytag Atlantis is extremly stylish.
Our fellow American members aren't really enourmoured with the current crop of top loaders. Many of them own Front loading Neptunes, Frigemores and Kenmore HE3ts. Maytag has sold a million + Neptunes and goodness knows how many more Frigemores have been sold.
I think that it is great that there is a choice for everyone. Everyone is free to do what they want. I personally feel that a tumbler is better but of course would love to see one designed specifically for Australian Laundry habits.
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Post# 14397-2/27/2002-05:34 ||| arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: GE to introduce a new washer. Renewed focus & emphasis on appliances (top load front load?)
MESSAGE: Unless of course you own an NEC air bubble machine.
Then it takes 90 minutes, plus untagling time. In the process you flush 260 litres of water down the drain. 70 - 80 litres more than any other top loader.
I would love to see what an air bubble machine washed like though!!!!!
Generally though I like the style of those machines. I just dont know why they cant make a full agitator. It wouldnt take much. Its amazing how the absence of a centre post can make so much tangling. Hitachi made agitator machines but now its gone back to impellers.
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Post# 14398-2/27/2002-05:47 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (The Case for Euro appliances)
MESSAGE: Hi Bubbles,
Hope you are well too and enjoying the beach. Am I well? don't ask - Sunday morning 3 hours in the emergency department, Monday scheduled hospital stay for diagnostics (could have been serious but all clear - yay!!!) Monday evening doctors for shots following from Sunday's emergency visit. Getting better now though, this is why I have been so slow replying to posts.
Well, this has turned out to be a very long post, I started replying last night, but had to give up and go to bed. Sorry about the length, but you gave me a very long post to reply to. I doubt we are going to agree on many points, but it is great fun to argue them out, and I learn so much in the process. I think I may now beat Kathy in the wind-bag of teh year award that she proposed.
I'll take you points in turn.
I read your post about TL dishwashers, I have never seen that design before that you described, sounds very good, I could be convinced.
I too am planning to buy a Smeg cooker, the A1.1 opera in stainless steel, hope it cooks as well as it looks.
And now, I present the case for Euro appliances.
I guess Germany would have a smaller appliance choice than the US. Germany has only a quarter of the population, so economics would dictate less choice.
I don't know about German TL automatics, but in the UK Hotpoint made a TL auto that had a very good reputation - Hotpoint's last decent machine.
Miele and Bosch are white, use water and electricity, but do the job well, what more does one want? Actually, one of the cheap brands makes appliances in silver, dark blue, dark green and yellow to match popular kitchen colours, so options are available. Hotpoint, despite all else about the company, make very pretty washers with pastel shaded control panels. A window in the door - well you can pay more and have a washer with a solid door, but I prefer to be able to see what is happening durring the wash. The solid doors are on premium priced machines as they help reduce noise.
Most Euro manufacturers offer a TL machine, though these are still tumble action. These are typically much narrower so are useful when space is even scarcer.
The Dyson is revolutionary, in looks as well as action, and Euro land was first with this, someone will prove me wrong now as most new ideas are old. Dyson also pioneered new technology with the cyclone vacuum cleaner, that they then licensed to Hoover in the US. Dyson have developed a robot vacuum cleaner, though I don't think it has reached teh market yet. There is also the Titan Monotub, with a removable tub that doubles as a washing basket - recalled due to dramatic failure in use - but still a revolutionary Euro first, link below. Zanussi made that egg shapped fridge, and they have those trendy new IZ washers.
Euro apps not changed much in 20 years, well Miele has added a true handwash cycle, very similar to the new wetclean dry cleaning machines, I am testing a piece of dryclean only wool cloth in it before I buy a load for chair covers, so far results are good. Miele has added PC update, to allow new cycles to be added to the machine. Ariston developed a washer that connected to the internet - don't know why though. Zanussi developed Jetsystem so so that clothes are showered as well as dropped into the water, followed by other Euro manufacturers adding waterfall baffles to the tubs to achieve a similar effect without pumping. Euro machines have advanced control over ballance for spinning, overfoaming, precise temperature, profiled wash temperatures and wash time at temperature selected. Manufacturers have also reduced water and electricity useage, whilst improving results, and not always at the expense of very long cycle times - Miele gets an A rate wash on its short wash of approx 1 hour.
I dont understand why you say tumble washers are inflexible, try washing a down filled item in a TL and watch it float, no prob in a FL. Pillows, duvet covers, trainers (Sneakers), slippers, small duvets (I use a giant in the launderette for a king size), curtains, blinds, sofa cover, chair covers, dust sheets, plastic shower curtain (labelled do not wash - washes fine)cleaning rags hygenically boiled, dry clean only cloth (OK I'm still experimenting with this one), heavy rubber backed door mats (I wash 3 at a time), the machines are flexible and hold plenty, Euro standard is now 11 or 13LB, with some at 15lb. I regularly wash single items, in a FL it need not be emergencies only due to the tiny water use - often less than handwashing an item.
Altering cycles - well I have already posted that I worked out that my Miele has 677 possible cycle combinations, but occasionally, there is not the option that I want, so I start one cycle and move to another. A recent example, washing a large sofa cover, I wanted a min iron wash with max water level in wash and rinse, the machine offered this for rinse only, it offers low or med water only min iron wash, so I put it on delicates to fill to max, cancelled the programme and selected min iron. Same way to repeat a cycle part, skipping stages is easy too, same with my previous Euro AEG.
Add or remove items, easy with the better Euro FL machines, just press door open, so long as water is below the door and not too hot, the door opens (cheap machines do not have this feature and would dive me mad). If the door won't open, pull the emergency release.
Breakdown mid cycle - actually happened to me on Saturday. OK, teh Miele did not break, but the timerswitch to which it was connected broke. I had a chair cover soaking in max water level, so I used the emergency drain tap at the front of teh machine to drain it, 2.5 buckets full, pulled the emergency door release and got the cover out, very easy.
More problems and breakdowns, quite likely, Euro machines are more complex and wear may be greater with the very fast spin speeds, up to 1800 on AEG and 1600 on others. There is no clutch though, so may be swings and roundabouts.
More costly, well the cheapest Euro machines here are about $300, so comparble to the cheapest washers in US. Some US TLs are over $1000, which is more than I paid for a Miele. I guess if Australian machines were sold in Euroland, they would be expensive. The shipping costs have to be met, exchange rate, import taxes etc.
We have covered cycles already, when a cycle is considered the wash action and temperature is ignored, most Euro machines would be see as having only a few cycles, cottons, min iron, delicate, wool handwash. Euro machines only look like they have lots of cycles as each will be repeated on the control for each temperature setting.
Why would a large wool blanket unballance a tumbler, I have regularly washed large heavy wool blankets in all 3 FLs that I have owned, never had any problem. Right now, my Miele is fast spinning 3 heavy rubber backed cotton door mats, 40*60cm each, absolutely no problem. Why would a suede jacket not be washable in a FL (aside from the fact that suede is supposedly not washable), a sinlge large item will maybe cause the machine to spin slower, rather than unballance it. OK, I admit that my experiences are only with top end euro FLs, I have avoided the cheap ones as I too would not trust them to ballance properly. FLs have spin only cycles, usually with a choice of speed and time, so no different to TLs there.
Soaking is easy in a FL too. On a cheaper one without a soak cycle one can do as you do, fill it on a high wash turn off and leave. On all 3 machines that I have owned, there has been a soak cycle, heated and maintained at warm with periodic gentle tumbling. On the Miele I can selct 30 mins to 2 hours, and teh wash automatically follows. On my Creda I could select 1 - 9 hours, though I had to reset it for a wash. The AEG kept the clothes in soak til I decided that it was enough and reset for a wash. I agree that not much these days is washable over 60C, and a boil wash is harsh on fabric, but I like a boil wash for tea-towels and cleaning cloths to make sure that they are sanitary, no chlorine bleach needed then.
We have a wide coice of detergent in Europe, bio, non bio, with with and without oxygen bleach, optical brighteners, perfumes, softener, crease release stuff, anti-pilling enzyme, colourfast stuff. Maybe that your rellies like to use an ecological detergent, as I do. My main choice is ecover www.ecover.com, no bleach, perfume, brightener, enzymes etc. I add separate oxygen bleach to whites, wash them in hot 60C water with no colours and my whites are, to my mind, brilliant, though I sometimes wonder whether a shirt someone is wearing is white that has greyed, or a pastel that has faded. My mum taught me to keep whites nice - she loved to look at other peoples washing lines and make very rude comments about their grey whites - 'Hm, that's automatic white for you' or worse 'Hmmph, that's launderette! white for you' I was cautioned against owning anything white after I left home as I would be using launderettes, no prob though, I soaked in a bucket before going to the launderette - great thing was, so did the BF when I met him, his mother had teh same concerns about whites. We have used oxygen bleach in laundry in Europe for decades, maybe why we accept longer cycles - I can not remember chlorine bleach ever being popular in laundry - most people here would only think to put it down the toilet.
Life expectancy - well older euro machines form say 20-30 years ago were more solidly made, newer machines do tend to be very flimsy and plasticy. We only expect to get 7 years from a washer, so you are probably right here.
I have never used a US DW, so cannot compare and will graciously bow to you experience. I have used a Euro DW for over 10 years and it gets dishes way cleaner than most people do by hand. In UK, DW penetration is only about 20%, I put it down to the protestant work ethic (aka martyrdom) so there is plenty of hand washed dishes for comparison. Polyprop may be as good, but ss looks so much more stylish. US machine may be bigger inside, but don't many have some tower thing that comes up from the bottom, preventing you from loading in the centre of teh lower basket. Most Euro machines had a funnel in the centre of the top basket to get the water to the middle spray arm, but recently, led I think by Bosch, this has been repleced in some TOL machines by a direct water connection to the back of the tub. This allows loading in all parts of the top basket.
I have never had my spray arms clog or need cleaning, though, in the early years of the machine, I did get a clog in the sump pipework. He Who Knows Best informed me that I did not scrape enough crud of the plates. The engineer confirmed that I should scrape plates first, and also do a monthly maintenance wash - empty tub, full detergent and long hot wash.
I take your point about water wastage with pre-rinsing, but I only scrape the solid food off. I do soak oven dishes with burnt on food, without this the DW does usually leave some burnt residue.
I do very much agree with you about the superior US door locking system. The accident that you describe with your nephew could have been very serious, this is a major shortfall of euro machines. My Bosch has a pause button that you can press to stop the machine before opening the door, but how would a 2 year old know to do that, and it still exposes said kid to hot cautic water in the machine, plus sharp knives and glass, much better to lock the little darlings out in the first place.
Well, I wonder if anyone has made it this far, really I am worse than Jilly Bloody Cooper. I guess that manufacturers make for their home market, if their machines sell elsewhere its a bonus. Euro machines are ideal for the Euro market and will suit a few people in US and Oz, likewise US machines suit US conditions and will only suit a few people in Europe.
It sounds like Oz has similar conditions to US, in terms of space and house size, but I would be more concerned about water useage in Oz than in US.
Well this has been fun, I must away to do some work now. Take care.
*****
Post# 14399-2/27/2002-05:54 ||| arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (British Houses)
MESSAGE: Hi Herr Meile.
I must admit I am a euro freek. I love European cars too. They are so more affordable than they used to be. No I am not a pouncy show off either, Ive already posted I come from real working class stock.
I know what your are saying about British homes though! My uncle has worked for Bryants, McAlpine and Wimpey and has given me lots of glossy brochures over the years. I am always looking at their websites too. The bed room sized make me wanna cry. But I do love the cottage design on the outside. However because they are smaller they seem to make better use of any spare space.
In Australia we had a trend for new houses to be built in the traditional Federation style. Very ornate with lots of timberwork and finials on the gables and stained glass windows. A reconstruction never looks quite like the original though.
I wanted to be an architect but I HATED technical drawing at school. My dream job of course would be a washing machine designer but I dont think there are too many positions vacant for those!
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Post# 14400-2/27/2002-07:23 ||| gizmo (Great Ocean Road, Victoria, Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Meadowbank.)
MESSAGE: The other product fom Meadowbank was....
...drumroll...
The Hoover Keymatic.
I have 2 instruction booklets from Keymatics.
On the back cover they have a line drawing of the Meadowbank factory including the big HOOVER signs overhead. The address is Cnr. Rothesay Ave and Belmore St, Meadowbank, NSW.
Inside the cover are photos of "other famous HOOVER products" including a Hoover iron, upright vac (convertible), floor polisher, hovercraft canister vac (constellation), and a twin tub washer.
Chris.
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Post# 14401-2/27/2002-07:53 ||| JoeEkaitis (Rialto, California, USA)
SUBJECT: RE: ABC-O-Matic washer action (Whirlpool/Roper comes close)
MESSAGE: My parents have a Roper washer, a product of Whirlpool with a 90-degree stroke agitator that agitates much faster than most others. It, too, produces a similar rollover action, even though it's a similar straight-vein vertical axis design.
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Post# 14402-2/27/2002-07:54 ||| Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: POD Hotpoint washer (Question of the Day)
MESSAGE: You're guess is as good as mine, it must have a magic key. Lets see how many idea's we can come up with how this thing opens...
LINK: http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/hotpoint600/lst?.dir=/1974+Hotpoint&.view=t
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Post# 14403-2/27/2002-07:54 ||| gizmo (Great Ocean Road, Victoria, Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Not Wesinghouse at all, just Aussie washer stuff)
MESSAGE: Mr Bubbles
Aussie made Hoover front loaders always had stainless steel drums. The previous ones with enamel drums were imported from the UK.
This is the lineage with that model:
Earliest - can't remember model no but it was not 400 series. Silver control panel. Enamel drum. Made in Tydfir, Wales.
Next was 455 with black control panel. Same mechanically. Still imported. Still enamel drum.
Then the first Aussie one - the Zodiac 460 and 465. If it ends in 0 it has no heater. Heater ones end in 5. 460 series was cheapened for Aussie market - no dispenser,beige stick on control panel label instead of a moulded plastic panel. Different door lock. Still uses UK motor/control/timer. Stainless inner drum, enamel outer drum .
Zodiac 470/475 - my favourite Zodiac. Reverts to moulded plastic control panel but no dispenser. Most have stainless inner drum, enamel outer drum, but last of 470/475's have both drums in stainless. Still use UK motor and controller but timer is Aussie made. Aussie timer gives shorter wash cycles, otherwise the same programme (wash, four rinses, short spin, fifth rinse, long spin).
480/485 - change to induction motor sourced from Italy. Quieter, more reliable, terribly slow spin, shakes around on spin as it never gets above that critical speed beyond which vibration seems to smooth out. Stainless inner & outer drums. Cabinets are all beige. Previously all were white. My least favourite.
490/495 - back to white cabinets. Grey control panel. Changed from poly-Vee belt to ordinary v-belt. (cheaper). Still no dispenser.
Then the Electra-economiser series. Faster spins due to different pulley size and electronic control, but same motor as 480 and 490 series. A dispenser returns at last - first Aussie-made with dispenser. Push-buttons to select hot/warm/cold wash, spin/hold and heater on heater-equipped models. The last Electra's dropped the "economiser" part of the name. The model number of 1000 was prominent on the front implying a 1000 spin but it was really only 800rpm. (about the same as the old UK-sourced models)
It is quite common to find models which should have enamel bowl with stainless and the reverse, due to repairs and reconditioning. Upgrading to stainless is a good move, the enamel ones rust pretty well.
Chris.
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Post# 14404-2/27/2002-08:15 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: RE: POD Hotpoint washer (Question of the Day)
MESSAGE: Very cool brochure - thanks for posting.
Judging by the fill flume arrangement on the left side of the tub, I would say that there must have been some sort of water flow change to direct into the dispenser box, maybe similar in valve construction to the Dispensall, althought that was done with the recirculating water, I think. I wish I'd gotten to play with this washer as a kid!
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Post# 14405-2/27/2002-08:39 ||| gizmo (Great Ocean Road, Victoria, Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (sticking up for front loaders)
MESSAGE: And here comes Chris wielding a big stick...
You make some pretty wild assertions about front loaders and their users.
I have given front loaders to several people with large size top loaders that had died. Two were "6kg" Hoovers - a 500 series and a 600 series. (basically the same machine, and a good TL too.) They were replaced with in one case a 4.5kg Indesit and the other a 4.5kg Hoover Zodiac 480. Both people commented how they were amazed how much MORE they could fit in the little FL than they could in their bigger rated TL. I have observed the same myself. You can get 6 or 7 kg FL's from LG, Miele, Bosch, Whirlpool, Bendix and others.
Few front loaders use 20 to 25 litres per fill. Try 12 to 15 litres per fill. Wash and four rinses is about 60 litres. You couldn't even wash in a TL with that, let alone rinse.
Choice mag some years ago got stuck into Kleenmaid over their claimed capacity. Their TL rated variously as 6 and 7 kg depending on what ad you read tested out at 5kg only. They had a photo of the machine with a 7kg load - it piled up to the height of the control panel.
You have every right to purchase a TL but please don't vilify or mock those of us who ARE concerned about water use. The population of Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane are growing fast and our PER PERSON water use is still escalating. Some of us object to more forests being flooded to make more dams so others don't have to change their wasteful habits. I live in the hills near Apollo Bay, a small town with a rapidly growing population and huge increase in tourist numbers. Last summer Apollo Bay came within a couple of weeks of running out of water. Barwon Water had to set up emergency pumps to transfer water from a nearby stream to keep the supply basin from running dry. The tourists still had their spa baths, though... And this is the wettest location in the state, but the infrastructure necessary to supply more water to the town isn't there. The studies are going on furiously now, (a wet year) but it appears so far some giant tanks plus WATER CONSERVATION are the affordable answer. The area is prone to landslip so more dams aren't feasible.
Twin tubs use MORE water per kilo of clothes than most front loaders, that's one reason why they are disappearing.
I am a "green conscious person" living in a fairly red-neck area and I do get really sick of hearing people sneering at greenies/green conscious people,putting people down for caring more about their environment and the future than themselves, and attributing comments and attitudes to the greenies that the greenie concerned has never uttered.
Sorry if I am jumping down your throat (or your keyboard) but I have copped a fair bit of this crap here in the last week so you have (probably inadvertently)touched a raw nerve.
Best Wishes
Chris.
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Post# 14406-2/27/2002-08:51 ||| gizmo (Great Ocean Road, Victoria, Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: POD Hotpoint washer (Question of the Day)
MESSAGE: I'm with Gansky1, I guess there is a stream of water going through the dispenser at the right moment.
Does anyone actually KNOW the right answer?
Uni's ref to a "magic key" reminds me of a friend, a fellow washing machine afficionado, who explained semiconductors (transistors, FETs, silicone chips and so on) in a cute way...
"these devices are little black boxes filled with magic smoke. The different devices have different types of magic smoke. It is very important that the magic smoke stays sealed in the little box. If the device is damaged in any way ( eg overvoltage or overcurrent) then the box breaks and you can see the magic smoke leak out. Then it doesn't work any more."
Chris.
With credit to Brendan.
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Post# 14407-2/27/2002-09:07 ||| Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: ABC-O-Matic washer action
MESSAGE: Joe the ABC's rollover is different from a Frigidaire Pulsator, as the ABC rollover goes toward the agitator but also goes round and round the tub in a counter-clockwise fashion.
When the Frigidaire wing opens (boy that's going to be a lot of work) you will see the rollover of a Frigidaire is towards the agitator only.
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Post# 14408-2/27/2002-09:20 ||| Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: POD Hotpoint washer (Question of the Day)
MESSAGE: I bet you're right Greg. If you blow up the first page of that Hotpoint Brochure and look at the picture in the lower left hand corner, there is quite a fancy fill flume assembly there. I bet it has some kind of solenoid diverter built into it. Notice how there is a little black tube going into part of the flume that sprays the filter ring, I wonder if that is part of the bleach or softener dispenser assemblies?
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Post# 14409-2/27/2002-09:32 ||| peteski50 (New York)
SUBJECT: RE: POD Hotpoint washer (Hotpoint)
MESSAGE: Thanks Robert - this is great, they probably went to the rear opening lid shortly after that because that is the one we had with the same looking control panel. With the handwash Adj but it also had a Adj mounted fabric softner dispenser.
Peter
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Post# 14410-2/27/2002-09:47 ||| calypso bruce (Boston)
SUBJECT: Hotpoint POD
MESSAGE: Imagine, setting up this machine with a pre-wash, 10hr soak,
then to automatically go to wash and 2nd rinse. This could
possibly tie up your machine for at least 12 hours LOL.
Cannot imagine what you would need a 10 hour soak for.
The hot soak water would be cold. Oh well, just something
to chew on.
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Post# 14411-2/27/2002-09:53 ||| calypso bruce (Boston)
SUBJECT: Hotpoint POD
MESSAGE: As far as the detergent disp. goes. My best friends
grandmother had a 74 or 75 Kenmore with a dispenser
mounted to the side of the washer opening. I remember
trying to think of how this worked. I never did get to
try it out. I could have because this machine was still in use as of 2 years ago. He has since got new ones.
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Post# 14412-2/27/2002-11:00 ||| CleanteamofNY (Brooklyn, NY)
SUBJECT: RE: POD Hotpoint washer (Question of the Day)
MESSAGE: The way it looks, it must be loaded with powder detergent then the cover is set back into place, when it's time to wash the main cover swings down dumping the detergent into the basket, released by the magnet soleniod.
I never seen this model before.
My cousin had a hotpoint, rear opening GE lid, but it was the lower end of the POD. It had three cycles, three water level and three water temps all cold rinses. The agitator was a six vaned, three main vanes with three 1" scrubbers at the base. I had a chance to play with the machine and I could not see how this agitator cleaned any clothes because the roll over was non-existent! GE spiral Activator had more power than this straight vane....
I wonder how GE can make an agitator and not test it for a full load to roll over?
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Post# 14413-2/27/2002-11:06 ||| CleanteamofNY (Brooklyn, NY)
SUBJECT: RE: ABC-O-Matic washer action
MESSAGE: The only washers I know that would have the same roll over action like the ABC-O-Matic is the White Westinghouse and Frigidaire with the Tri-Wash System or GE Activator agitator.
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Post# 14414-2/27/2002-11:17 ||| joeekaitis (Rialto, California, USA)
SUBJECT: RE: ABC-O-Matic washer action (Well, it's been years. . . :))
MESSAGE: It's been years since I've seen a Frigidaire in action but aside from the orbiting action in the ABC-O-Matic, the rolling action was at least reminiscent.
As they way, the time to worry about getting old is when people appear to be messing up the sentences of their endings. :)
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Post# 14415-2/27/2002-11:22 ||| joeekaitis (Rialto, California, USA)
SUBJECT: February 27 Picture of the Day (Maytag Halo of Heat Dryer)
MESSAGE: Which temperature setting do you use for a baby, and is it better to use a fabric softener sheet or a liquid softener in the final rinse? :)
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Post# 14416-2/27/2002-12:02 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Clothes Care)
MESSAGE: Oh, sisters, arn't they wonderfull, such a source of amusement. How old was your sister when this happened?
I can tell 3 amusing stories about my sister and laundry -
1 - Her aged 15, comes back from one holiday, and the parents have gone away, I am staying home alone and she is travelling to join them the next day. Her, 'all my clothes are dirty and I need them for the next holiday'; me 'wash them'; 'don't know how'; 'use the machine'; don't know how it works and I really need them, will you do them?'. SO no guesses for who stood over the old twinny, and due to the ugency in which they were needed risked the wrath of the old man by using the dryer - he read the meter before leaving and again on return to make sure I did not use too much electricity. Anyway, there is all her clothes washed, dryed and folded, she decided that they needed ironing. Needless to say, they remained there unironed and she took other clothes.
2 Her age 16, needing to handwash a top and not knowing how. I did not fall for that one again. I stood by, giving step by step directions, put the plug in, run in some water add detergent etc. After washing she needed to dry it, put it in the spinner says I, she could not open the spinner, well it had a really complicated brake lever that you had to move through 90 degrees to clear the lid.
3 - Her about 18, parents have bought an autowasher now. Her standing by it looking puzzled, Dad asks whats wrong. Did not know how to work the washer. Dad asks what she has put in, gets the reply whites so Dad sets a boil wash. Well the clothes were white and pastel and included an acryrlic sweater that Mum had handknitted, you can imagine the results and Mum's language.
She runs her home know and has become a bril homemaker, juggling a full time job with 3 kids and keeping a nice home.
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Post# 14417-2/27/2002-12:14 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (British Houses)
MESSAGE: Bedrooms in new British house, hmmmmph closets you mean.
A while ago I decided we needed to move to a bigger house, our has only 2 bedrooms and I wanted 3. An agent sent me details on a newish 3 bed house and told me that the rooms were all a good size. Beds 1 and 2 were 13' by 8', yes 8 feet wide. Bed 3 was 6' by 6.5', would make a nice small closet or en-suite bog, bugger all use for anything else.
My house is 100 years old, and alothough only a 2 bed, at 950 sq ft is comparatively big, bed 1 is 16' by 13' and bed 2 is 13' square. I looked at a 4 bed new house and realised that it was smaller than my house, that is how bad they are here, and why we have teeny little appliances.
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Post# 14418-2/27/2002-12:18 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Meadowbank.)
MESSAGE: Gizmo,
Can you scan and post those instruction manuals some time, please, please.
Hoover made cool irons, had a great 50s style about them, I love teh constellation vac too, fascinated me as a kid. The floor polisher looks great, though I have never seen a real one, only pics and teh old Hoover Junior cleaner is a design classic don't you think.
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Post# 14419-2/27/2002-13:16 ||| cycla-fabric (New Jersey)
SUBJECT: RE: Hotpoint POD (Kenmore Dispenser)
MESSAGE: Well Bruce I can you this, on the Kenmores that had the side mounted detergent dispensers, when the machine starts to wash and you have selected the maximum wash time of any cycle, wash water would flow through the dispenser flushing out the detergent for the first 2 to 4 miutes of the wash cycle and then shut off. I have seen this operate on a friends machine and he had a 1971 800 series Kenmore with this feature.
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Post# 14420-2/27/2002-14:27 ||| Peterh770 (Atlanta, GA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (British Houses)
MESSAGE: That reminds me of a very old Genesis song "Get 'Em Out By Friday" (on the Foxtrot ablum). Peter Gabriel singing:
This is an announcement from Genetic Control
"It is my sad duty to inform you
Of a four foot restriction
On all humanoid height"
I hear the directors of Genetic Control
have been buying all the properties
that have recently been sold
Taking risks oh so bold
They say now the people will be shorter in height
They can fit twice as many in the same building site
They say it's all right.
Beginning with tenants in the town of Harlow
In the interest of humanity, they've been told they must go
Told they must go, go, go, go
Now there's an album to listen to on Friday night, havining pizza and doing laundry, Jason!
LINK: http://songs.hut.ru/g/genesis/foxtrot.72.html
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Post# 14421-2/27/2002-14:35 ||| Peterh770 (Atlanta, GA)
SUBJECT: RE: ABC-O-Matic washer action (Automagic)
MESSAGE: I think the Philco Automagic is closest to the ABC. The load kinda swirls around and then gets sucked under. It looks like a gentler, less splashy version of the ABC.
Glenn, can you post the link to your convention movies? (My arm is the star in one of them!)
-ph
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Post# 14422-2/27/2002-14:41 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Switched Reluctance Motors)
MESSAGE: I don't know much about motortechnology, but I do know that my Philips washer had a Permanent Magnet motor and it had a control to regulate the spinspeed between 120 and 850 rpm. I loved letting it start at 120 rpm and then slowly speed it up.
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Post# 14423-2/27/2002-14:43 ||| angus (Fairfield, CT.)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Kirk's Castile Soap)
MESSAGE: If you ask the manager perhaps they can order it for you. If you really cannot get any cooperation, let me know and I can always ship some to you.
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Post# 14424-2/27/2002-14:58 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: RE: POD Hotpoint washer (Question of the Day)
MESSAGE: Did you notice that in that picture that the washer is spinning? In a later Hotpoint my mother had, the fill flume faced the other (counterclockwise) direction - same direction as the spin, and sprayed into the filter ring. This one appears to be spraying clockwise into the counterclockwise motion of the tub - would have been a very splashy show!
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Post# 14425-2/27/2002-15:03 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: RE: Hotpoint POD
MESSAGE: This machine used 50 gallons of water in a Normal cycle - the "12 Hour Upgrade" cycle would use 100 gallons. If you had particularly low water pressure, this washer could be running for days!
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Post# 14426-2/27/2002-15:44 ||| DADoES (El Campo, TX)
SUBJECT: RE: ABC-O-Matic washer action (Automagic Action)
MESSAGE: Here's the link to the page with the Automagic videos. (There are links to all the pics on the Members Links page.)
Peter's arm is featured in the video "Automagic Action" -- 4th down on the left column.
LINK: http://users.wcnet.net/dadoes/minne/fridaynight.htm
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Post# 14427-2/27/2002-16:05 ||| kirk280980 (Lincoln UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Neptune not boring)
MESSAGE: Shining a torch through the window? I have to admit that I've never done that... even though I live alone, and wouldn't have to run the risk of getting funny looks from someone else!
How much energy do these drum illumination bulbs actually use, anyway? It can't possibly be all that much - maybe having one switched on permanently during a wash cycle wouldn't add much extra to the energy consumption of the washer.
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Post# 14428-2/27/2002-16:13 ||| kirk280980 (Lincoln UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Neptune not boring)
MESSAGE: That's one thing I forgot to mention; the Neptune is exceptionally quiet, more so than any other washer I've ever used. The only noise mine made was a "gloop-gloop" noise during the wash (I think that was the fluid bubbling around in the tub balance ring), and a very quiet hum during the spin.
When the new Neptunes were launched, I couldn't stand the look of the wavy control panel. Now I'm used to it, I think it looks rather smart. I'm going to wait for the UK launch, and see if I can get a half-decent staff discount on one. If not, I'll just have to carry on dreaming LOL.
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Post# 14429-2/27/2002-16:16 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: RE: Hotpoint POD (Hotpoint Lady Executive)
MESSAGE: I remember some GE style Hotpoints with the left opening lid that had a small, ribbed plastic washboard in place of the detergent dispenser - no reason for ring around the collar with that handy non-automatic feature!
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Post# 14430-2/27/2002-16:17 ||| kirk280980 (Lincoln UK)
SUBJECT: RE: POD Hotpoint washer
MESSAGE: I did hear about that one, but unfortunately it was a little before my time, so I've never seen one. The only twin tub still on the market by the time I got into sales was the Hotpoint Supermatic, which is no more. There was also a retro-style Servis, but it was pulled very quickly, apparently due to a string of design faults. We only had that one listed in our pricing file for about two months before it disappeared for good. As far as I know, it didn't have any form of 2-in-1 agitator.
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Post# 14431-2/27/2002-16:19 ||| kirk280980 (Lincoln UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Whats wrong with Euro?)
MESSAGE: Yep, cold pre-rinse, then switch to hot for the main wash and rinses. I imagine that would work pretty well, and give the best of both worlds.
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Post# 14432-2/27/2002-16:41 ||| golittlesport (California)
SUBJECT: RE: ABC-O-Matic washer action (Whirlpool/Roper comes close)
MESSAGE: I had a direct-drive Kenmore...same thing as the Estate, Roper, and Whirlpool...and the only time you can get that kind of rollover is when you put half a load in the machine with a full water level.
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Post# 14433-2/27/2002-16:42 ||| kirk280980 (Lincoln UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Meadowbank.)
MESSAGE: My grandparents only ever had Hoover Juniors. They never, ever bought a new vacuum - it was always off to the vac shop to buy a reconditioned Junior. There must be loads still in use, as we sell the H1 Junior bags by the truckload. My job at work is to order vac spares, and that's one of our best selling lines.
We do get a lot of little old ladies in our store, who say they've had their Junior for something like 30-odd years. They pick out the Turbopower Junior to replace it, and I'm left thinking to myself, there's no way THAT is going to last as long. The old ones seemed to run forever.
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Post# 14434-2/27/2002-17:44 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: POD Hotpoint washer
MESSAGE: Yep Kirk, this Servis TT would definitely have been before you time. I was using it in 84 - 85, it was probably new around 80 81. This one was very modern in its syling, white case with brown lids, surrounds and controls. Lids were square with rounded corners as were the knobs. The spinner had a handbrake over the lid that swung through 90 degrees, over the lid to start spinning and back flush to the control panel to brake. Under the square spinner lid was a white round cover with a catch to slow you down so that the cylinder had stopped spinning by the time you got to it. Overall the machine was a piece bigger than the Hotpoint TT.
I think the best time using a TT was when I was lucky enough to have 2 at the same time, Hotpoint and Servis, with room for both. I would run both together to get laundry done in half the time but twice the fun.
Have you played with a TT, they are great fun to play with once in a while, but a PITA if you have to do all your laundry in them.
*****
Post# 14435-2/27/2002-17:53 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Neptune not boring)
MESSAGE: Kirk,
Though I love Miele, I am jealous of the fact that Neptunes are so amazingly quiet, even spinning. My little Miele is way noisier, both washing and spinning. I think the loudest noise the Neptune made was the water rushing in for the fill.
Have you checked out UK Maytag's scratch & dent policy. If your happy with this route, it can be a good way to get expensive appliances cheaply.
Oh, before I forget, last Saturday I saw that narrow Bosch you told me about, in a Co-Op supermarket of all places. It's a great design for places a standard machine won't fit.
*****
Post# 14436-2/27/2002-17:58 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Kirk's Castile Soap)
MESSAGE: OK. Maybe we could trade Kirk's for STPP!
*****
Post# 14437-2/27/2002-17:58 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Neptune not boring)
MESSAGE: I don't shine a torch in often, only when I am washing something new and want to see if colour is leaching, I also scoop a glass of wash water out to double check. I also do it if I am washing something unusual, like a non-washable shower cutain and want to check all is well, or to check if the load is saturated already, so I can switch the water back to cold. He who must takes the P when he catches me, but hey, he takes the P most of the time anyway.
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Post# 14438-2/27/2002-18:00 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Neptune not boring)
MESSAGE: I *think* the bulb in the Neptune washer is 10 watts. Not all that much if it was on only during the times the machine is actually running. I'll have to double check this evening. Might as well find out so I can stock some spares...
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Post# 14439-2/27/2002-18:05 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Neptune not boring)
MESSAGE: The newest Neptunes upgraded the 40 watt drain pump to an 80 watt model. So it's a bit noisier than the older mechanical control machines' pumps. However, I have definitely noticed that the Neptune 7500 pump has gotten a lot quieter as time has gone on. This quieter pump with time phenom has also been noted by HE3t owners...
Maybe the pumps are all made by Grace Bros. "It will quiet down with wear!"... LOL...
The high speed spin however is a bit noticible. It does most of its spin at 800 rpm, then ramps up to 1000 rpm for maybe the last 30 seconds or so. I think the older Neptunes did a max of 800 rpm, so maybe they did most of their spinning at 600 rpm and ramped up to 800 rpm at the finish?
*****
Post# 14440-2/27/2002-18:06 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Neptune not boring)
MESSAGE: "Takes the P"?
Translation, please...
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Post# 14441-2/27/2002-18:17 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Neptune not boring)
MESSAGE: Its a politer version of takes the pi$$, do you not use this expression in US? I thought it universal, it means to make fun of someone in a slightly cruel way.
*****
Post# 14442-2/27/2002-18:21 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Are you Being Served)
MESSAGE: I'm Free!!!
Another Fan, I love that show. Who is your favourite Character, mine is Mrs Slocumb (never realised how rude that name is til I tried to spell it).
In similar stlye to her, when I told colleagues (cow-orkers) that I was getting a cat, one of them commented that he never thought he would see the day that I stroked a pussy.
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Post# 14443-2/27/2002-18:22 ||| kirk280980 (Lincoln UK)
SUBJECT: RE: POD Hotpoint washer
MESSAGE: Unfortunately, I've never had the opportunity to try a TT out for myself. My parents did have one when I was very young, and I vaguely remember my mum using it. But I hadn't started doing my own laundry at that stage... couldn't even see into the thing unless I was sitting on the worktop at the time :o)
Perhaps in the future, if I end up moving somewhere a little bigger, I might see if I can pick up a TT, which I could roll out every now and then for a change. What I would give to have a house with a cellar again!
*****
Post# 14444-2/27/2002-18:30 ||| HQOTS (Florida)
SUBJECT: The perfect washer......
MESSAGE: ain't so perfect
LINK: http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/appl/msg0218123319275.html
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Post# 14445-2/27/2002-18:31 ||| kirk280980 (Lincoln UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Neptune not boring)
MESSAGE: I have to admit that my Bosch gets a little noisy during the spin cycle. It's virtually silent during the wash, but gives off a rather pronounced jet-engine noise on faster spin speeds. One of my pals has the same model, and his is the same. The Maxx iT, which is the replacement model for my machine, is extremely quiet during the spin. In fact, all the Maxx models seem to be quite good in this respect.
Now you mention it, the water fill in the Neptune probably was the loudest noise it made. I seem to remember it was more a soft trickling noise, like the pre-Candy Hoover FLs used to make. Most new machines seem to make a loud "spray" noise during fill, but the Neptune was very easy on the ear.
That slim-depth Bosch Maxx looks rather weird at first, don't you think? That's the impression I got when I first saw it. But I think it's a really clever idea, and much better than ordinary compact-style washers. I reckon it would be especially handy for those who need to install the washer in a small bathroom, for example.
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Post# 14446-2/27/2002-18:34 ||| kirk280980 (Lincoln UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Neptune not boring)
MESSAGE: I keep my flat lit up like a lighthouse, so that's probably why I've never felt compelled to reach for the torch. Not that I'd know where it was anyway, so god help me if there was a power cut.
You know, it seems that some of us in life are destined to have the mickey taken out of us. I often feel like the court jester too, sometimes, so I know where you're coming from LOL.
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Post# 14447-2/27/2002-18:36 ||| kirk280980 (Lincoln UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Neptune not boring)
MESSAGE: 10 watts is virtually nothing when all's said and done, especially since the average Neptune cycle is something like 40 minutes from what I recall. It's not like it would be burning for hours on end each time.
Perhaps we ought to get in touch with Maytag and tell them what we want to see on the next generation models!
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Post# 14448-2/27/2002-18:41 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Neptune not boring)
MESSAGE: I remember the Neptune fill a quite a loud whoosh, especially if the disenser was open so I could watch the fill. May be that there was high water pressure.
The slim Bosch Maxx, maybe I did think it a little wierd, it certainly caught my attention immediately. It will be great in some locations, maybe allow some people to have a washer who previously could not fit one. The TL narrow stles are good too, for differet shapped lack of space, if you get what I mean.
Any way, goodnight, I off to bed.
*****
Post# 14449-2/27/2002-18:46 ||| kirk280980 (Lincoln UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Neptune not boring)
MESSAGE: The MAH3000 only ramped up to an 800 rpm spin if you pushed in the Max Extract button. Doesn't sound like much, but spun quite well thanks to that wide tub.
What's the reason behind the pump upgrade? Is it just to improve the pump head, so the washer can drain into a taller standpipe?
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Post# 14450-2/27/2002-18:57 ||| kirk280980 (Lincoln UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Are you Being Served)
MESSAGE: **snort**
Fnarr, fnarr!
One of my favourites, too. Never liked it when it was showing several years back, but now I find it hilarious. Probably because I now know what all the double-entendres and innuendoes mean... and that's exactly the sort of comedy I like. Clean just doesn't cut it!
Cow-orker? Is that a euphamism for when the vet... you know LOL.
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Post# 14451-2/27/2002-18:59 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances ("
Taking the P"
)
MESSAGE: Nope, I don't believe we septics use that phrase, "take the p".
We do say we may be "taking a leak" when we refer to the act of urination, or even "taking a piss". Then there's getting pissed (drunk) or being pissed off (very angry). But nothing in there that I know to convey a mocking tone. I don't even think we have an equivalent expression for "making fun of someone in a slightly cruel way".
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Post# 14452-2/27/2002-19:03 ||| kirk280980 (Lincoln UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Neptune not boring)
MESSAGE: More than likely the water pressure did have something to do with it. I don't know if the plumbing itself would have any effect, either - my parents' Zanussi makes a loud fill noise, and they have low water pressure. A pal with the same machine has very high water pressure, only his is virtually silent during fill... most odd!
The H-axis TLs are quite clever, in that they pack a full wash load into such a small machine. Rumour has it that Bosch are bringing out a full-width version with American-sized capacity, but I've not heard anything on that one yet for a long time. Would be interesting to see, though.
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Post# 14453-2/27/2002-19:06 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Neptune not boring)
MESSAGE: I don't *think* the pump upgrade enhanced the drain height at all, I think Maytag did it to improve reliability. Apparently the older 40 watt pumps were more prone to failure.
I'll have to check the service manual when I get home. Not that it's all that trustworthy. It occasionally contradicts itself when discussing upgrades. Such as, in the MAH4000, a recirculating pump was added to improve detergent dissolving and distribution. Then, in the 5500b/7500 machines, the recirculating pump was removed to improve detergent dissolving and distribution. Reminds me of Honda's reasoning behind going from 180 to 360 back to 180 degree crankshafts in their V4 motorcycle motors. All the changes were supposed to improve exhaust scavenging... LOL!
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Post# 14454-2/27/2002-19:08 ||| washrfreak (Dallas)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Are you Being Served)
MESSAGE: Of course everyone loves Mrs Slocumb's pussy. But you have to like Mr. Humphries as well - after all, he's neither one way nor the other.
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Post# 14455-2/27/2002-19:08 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (water noise)
MESSAGE: Water noise can be dependent upon the type of piping used in the home's plumbing... it's related to velocity vs. pipe inner diameter. Copper piping is more noisy than steel or plastic, as well. I got that much from web surfing on replacing my galvanized piping to the kitchen sink - the hot is slowing to a very annoying trickle. It's currently 60 year old galvanized so it's certainly due for an update. I may just replace that segment with new galvanized - it should do the trick until I'm ready to redo the whole system with copper.
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Post# 14456-2/27/2002-19:18 ||| kirk280980 (Lincoln UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Neptune not boring)
MESSAGE: Thanks for the clarification on that one. Sometimes it's hard to work out why manufacturers make certain changes to their products.
Sounds like Honda are as indecisive as Hoover. Over here, they had beater bars on their vacuums for years, then decided to go to a bristle-only brush "to prolong carpet life". Now they've gone back to the beater bars, and give the same reason for the switch back. Makes you wonder if it really is true, or if it's just a case of whatever sounds best in the brochure.
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Post# 14457-2/27/2002-20:46 ||| FilterFlo (Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio)
SUBJECT: Hotpoint POD, detergent dispenser, et al
MESSAGE: I had one of these TOL Hotpoints once, and they did indeed have a water inlet flume with a solenoid diverter. This was primarily used with the new (at that time) enzmye soak cycles, which, to be effective, required an extended soak cycle for the enzymes to "eat" the stains off the clothes. Then the cycle added powdered detergent, and completed the cycle in the normal manner. Actually, these machines are rare now, and were quite a good washer......I loved it when I had it, I sold it when still in college, and got a Rapidry 1000 to take its place......! Jimmy
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Post# 14457-2/27/2002-20:46 ||| angus (Fairfield, CT.)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Kirk's Castile Soap)
MESSAGE: The trade deal is a great idea, but I can get STPP easily. I will have to think of something that I really cannot find here - shouldn't be too hard to do!!!!
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Post# 14458-2/27/2002-20:50 ||| angus (Fairfield, CT.)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (water noise)
MESSAGE: Remember, Rich what "Cosmo" the plumber (the late Vincent Gardenia) said about copper pipe in the movie "Moonstruck":
" ....and then there's copper, which is the only pipe I use. It costs money - - - it costs money because it saves money."
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Post# 14459-2/27/2002-20:55 ||| angus (Fairfield, CT.)
SUBJECT: Post 14457
MESSAGE: I am a bit confused - two posts with the same number (14457), same text, but different titles and authors (me and Jimmy(Filter-Flo)). I wrote the post that is shown, but could this be because both of us were posting at the identical moment?
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Post# 14460-2/27/2002-21:35 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Copper vs. steel)
MESSAGE: Oh yes, copper is the best, long term. But for this particular run I figure galvanized will be a lot quicker. This way I don't have to tear apart the walls, or be incited to redo all the galvanized. I also am set up to do 1/2" galvanized - have the threading equipment and moreover, the workshop has several cabinets packed full of galvanized fittings, left behind by the previous owner.
What I'd really like to do is stainless steel threaded piping. That's even better than copper; completely nontoxic and more resistant to acids etc. There is a small amount of it here, but I've had a difficult time locating a supplier. The run under the sidewalk to the water meter is stainless; that will likely never have to be replaced. But to be realistic I'll probably have to settle for copper.
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Post# 14461-2/27/2002-21:36 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: Post 14457
MESSAGE: Must be some gremlins - maybe from GE - in the machine!
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Post# 14462-2/27/2002-23:26 ||| arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Are you Being Served)
MESSAGE: You would love to come to Sydney and visit our very own Grace Bros!!!!
My Aunty burst out laughing when we took her to one!!
I always thought it was Mrs Slocombe
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Post# 14463-2/27/2002-23:41 ||| arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (sticking up for front loaders)
MESSAGE: I am right behind you Chris!
Not in that way of corse!!!!
I would not describe myself as a devout greenie but when places have their water resaviours at 40% its time to do something ourselves rather than sitting around and waiting for govt. depts. to get their act together! Its about being responsible for ones self, rather than waiting for someone else to do something. I am a big believer in that and in not being wasteful like leaving lights on needlessly etc.
There are other ways to save water around the house but a FL is definately one of the easiest ways to cut back.
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Post# 14464-2/27/2002-00:05 ||| arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Clothes Care)
MESSAGE: So your dad reads the electricity metre every day too! What a laugh! So does my Grandmother! Must be an English thing.
My Sister was aged 20! Yes by now she really should know better! My brother is the worst. After Mum and Dad being in England for 6 weeks you should of seen the mountain of ironing we acumalated. My sister and i sorted it out to take to the laundromat to iron. My brother was horrified that we were going to spend money on that. He doesnt like to spend money my brother. He also raved on about how Mum would say we were laze. We said we are too busy working and hvae no time to do it and he said he would iron it himself. He iron three shirts and told us to take it to the laundromant.
Mum was so impressed when she found out she found a lady to do the ironing for her. She says she wished she did that years ago. She works most days of the week and ironing takes so much time.
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Post# 14465-2/28/2002-02:35 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Are you Being Served)
MESSAGE: I loved it as a kid, it was probably showing first time round then. I did not get the double entendres, but enjoyed it at face value. As an adult, I enjoy the show even more.
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Post# 14466-2/28/2002-02:42 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances
MESSAGE: We use all this P. phrases in the UK, along with 'p. useless' - not very good, 'p.ing about' being silly or ineffectual, 'piece of p.' - very easy, 'eyes like p.holes in the snow' - small tired eyes, 'like a streak of p.' - very thin, 'weak as p. or weak as gnats' - weak or very weak, 'wouldn't give you the steam of his p.' - mean. I am sure that there are others. I learnt all these as a kid from my parents, just realised how course they are and where I get it from.
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Post# 14467-2/28/2002-05:51 ||| scottdamit (Bright Indiana)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Neptune not boring)
MESSAGE: The old neptunes would go upto 800rpms for the entire spin cycle. After of course it did all of its checks and balances. I found that on my old one with larger loads it seldom would get to 800rpms. Sometimes it would never make it past 700rpms then the machine would try to speed up and would end up slowing back down because of the vibration. My new one is better about balancing and reaching higher spin speeds. It usally always gets to 800rpms and usally always will get to 1000rpms if I have it set to do as such.
SD
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Post# 14468-2/28/2002-06:05 ||| scottdamit (Bright Indiana)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Neptune not boring)
MESSAGE: Rich is correct they did upgrade the pump do to problems with the pump. this happened early on with the neptunes. I believe it happned around "series 34" on the old 3000. The max extract was a waste on the older machines. If you didnt have it on it would speed up to about 300rpms then stop, then go up to about 600rpms then stop, then it would go up to 800rpms if it was set to cotton/sturdy,then it would stop again, finally it would go up to 800 and stay there for the remainder of the spin. If you had max extract selected it would skip all of that stop and start and just go on to the 800rpms. On the new ones max extract means something there is a difference in the speeds.
SD
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Post# 14469-2/28/2002-07:40 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: Hotpoint POD,dispensers, etc. (Double Post weirdness)
MESSAGE: Wow, that double post is a strange one! I tried to reply to Filter-Flo's post, but it doesn't reconize that it's even there - goes automatically to Angus' post of the same number.
This was the last of the glory days for Hotpoint, you'd never believe there even was a Lady Executive by looking at the Hotpoint line today!
Jimmy, did the water flow into the detergent dispenser box flushing out the contents or did it open somehow when filling for the main wash?
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Post# 14470-2/28/2002-10:20 ||| cycla-fabric (New Jersey)
SUBJECT: Caloric POD
MESSAGE: A Caloric washer, I never knew such a item was made. Wonder how many of those machines are around
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Post# 14471-2/28/2002-11:35 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Reply to 14405, Hi Gizmo)
MESSAGE: G'day Gizmo,
Yeah alright I get your point, didn't mean to touch any raw nerves, but must admit that I am getting a bit sick of front-load nazies (not saying you are one) telling everybody what they should buy. I read somewhere that we even have a "Front Loading Washing Machine Association" out there trying to convert the public. All I can say to that is 'up your collective bums' - no one is going to convert me and I guarantee you, that I have used front-loaders long before (perhaps you and...) many of these other enthusiasts even knew they existed. My claims are based on personal experiences and they are certainly not wild.
I am not a wasteful person and consider myself environmentally conscientious. I just don't subscribe to these apparent quick-fixes, that ultimately amount to nothing anyway. My using a top-loader, instead of a tumbler, is not going to deplete our water supplies any faster. To set you straight, Waterboard records indicate that per capita water consumption in Sydney is still the same as it was in 1964, according to a news item that I watched a while ago.
The problem isn't per capita consumption, it is increasing populations in our major urban and some regional centers (although overall population-growth is actually negative). The easiest solution to face resulting challenges for the Waterboard, is to tell people to reduce their water consumption (duh!), instead of doing what they get paid to do. For example, they could be innovative and offer financial incentives to promote the installation of rain water tanks, (with every new suburban house being built or retro fitting also). Or perhaps offering rebates for people who want to install their own water recycling system or non-flush toilets. If there was a genuine interest in doing something serious about water, these would be far more potent solutions, rather than this nonsense about washing machines.
Our overpaid state governments and councils could do heaps to effect better water usage and conservation. Same with energy conservation through solar hot water heaters and solar electricity genration, but that would ultimately cut into their profits, which is not the idea. Environmentally friendly technologies have been around for yonks, but installation costs have remained high and as long as water and energy costs remain at levels that provide disincentives to become less reliant on utility companies, most people will not make that sort of investment.
Utility costs are stealthyly rising with regularity; an extra 8 or 10 percent here and there, every year, will ensure healthy profit margins and little reactivism from the public. Why do you think our electricity is being deregulated? I would guess its to negate state government's resonsibility to guarantee the uninterrupted flow of affordable electricity to consumers. Now our energy will be traded like any other commodity and supply and demand will determine its availability and cost - don't be surprised to see California-style power cuts. Who knows, water may be next.
So people are told some tale about the types of appliances that will apparently save them lots of money and the environment and blah blah. Of course the price increases will eventually negate any savings that people, such as yourself, thought you could make with your choice of purchase. That's what happened in Europe and our pollies/public service mob have their fingers on that pulse alright. They are busier than ever going to overseas conventions, where they pick up on more innovative ways to fleece us; and environemntalism has given them the ideal excuse.
Living in a rural area should prompt you to start thinking about making your own arrangements for water. If the Sydney Waterboard can't get off its ar*e to be pro-active, do you honestly think that your local water authority is going to be more effective - NOT! They will just continue to tell you about the things they can't do , whilst charging you more for their services - "Just don't use any water!"
Please don't call your fellow residents rednecks - just because they don't share your views. Don't think that the Greenie perspective is any more rounded and sensible than that of the average citizen. As with any agenda-driven issues motivated by political goals, people are naturally sceptical and that is very healthy. In their ignorance many Greenies believe that they are morally and culturally superior (not saying you are), to everybody who doesn't subscribe wholly to their agendas and they hate having to walk the same ground with us sceptics, lol.
Take the logging industry for example, with the stroke of a pen the Greens want to put thousands of people out of work without offering truely workable alternatives. Of course any crticism of and reactivism against this, is met with incredulity by them which goes to show how little they are connected to the reality of the rest of the community. The other thing that escapes many of the green persuasion, is the need for sustained and expanding economic activity - without which there simply wouldn't be any environmentalism anyway, because it costs money.
Germany is a very good example of Greenies in politics and on the rampage. They haven't actually done anything to really save the environment, apart from putting forward ideas like increasing the cost of petrol to 2.5 Euros a liter, just think what that would do to the average citizen and the economy. Naturally, Greenie Parliamentarians zip around in their nifty subsidized little Euro cars on taxpayer funded petrol. Their environmental policies have just introduced another environmental tax to be paid for by (you guessed it) the average, already much put upon citizens, for nothing more than to pass a law that outlaws the removal of graffiti inflicted on (amongst other buildings), 800 year old monuments by bored and misguided youths. In Germany, thanks to the ingenuity of the Greenies, grafiti is considered an artform now and has to be treated with utmost respect, puke! We are so lucky that here they are still on the political fringe.
I suppose considering the hygiene habits of the extreme tree hugging Greenies, washing machines and showers would probably be outlawed - should they ever gain political clout. Just imagine, we wouldn't have anything to discuss anymore. No more agitator vs drum, spin cycles, hand wash options, what a sad little world this would be. Oh, and gainfully employed people would be penalized for their greed and avarice with environmental taxes.
Anyway, Washing machines are not really the culprits here,its watering of gardens and lawns, flushing toilets, car washing and industrial water use that consumes most of this renewable resource. So don't get all worked up over top-loaders. As a matter of interest, my first Aussie built top loader was a 1980 Westinghouse Laundromat with suds save option, which I thought was pretty groovy and surely reduced my HEDONISTIC water consumption. I haven't seen any top-loaders with suds save lately, if they are still around they certainly aren't being advertised.
To tell you the truth, I don't like the idea of 10 to 15 litres per 5 or 6 kilos of clothes. I know how much water that is per fill, and the only way this technology gets to work is through very high spin speeds. That can't really be that good for clothes either. See, there is a trade-off everywhere. I would also venture to say that many of the consumption values given to consumers are approximations only. One has to remember that appliances are tested in laboratories and I doubt that such values would be achieved in an average household.
As for your statement regarding twin tubs, that would only be accurate if you changed the wash water for every kilo that you wash. Which is not how you are supposed to use a twin tub. It is meant to work along the lines of the 'recycled-suds' principle, where you wash your clothes using the same wash water for everything and use the spray rinse in the centrifuge after (e.g. 30 or 40 liter tub fill for six? or seven? kilos of clothing sounds pretty economical to me). Then you may do a full tub rinse for your entire wash, if this takes your fancy. Environmental concerns had nothing to do with the twin tub's demise, rather the lack of automated convenience. Most twin tubs use impellers, which are not that popular with Australian consumers.
By the way thanks for the other post regarding Hoover fronties manufactured in the UK. I wasn't aware of this and thought that these machines were Australian. Before we left Germany we actually owned a Hoover frontie, but that one had a s/s drum and I think was made in England, not sure though. It was great little washer though, I spent many hours watching the clothes go round and round, which was the reason I ended up in a neck brace and motivated my parents to opt for a top-loader once we had moved to the US. Neck braces were a lot more expensive in the US and the insurance didn't cover self-inflicted injuries. Anyway, I had discovered yoga by that stage and found new ways of achieving self-hypnosis through meditation.
Anyhow, t'was nice reading your posts, hope to exchange more views with you soon.
Take care
Mr-Bubbles (no, I don't have a bathtub in my back yard, anymore)
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Post# 14472-2/28/2002-12:28 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Clothes Care)
MESSAGE: Last winter, when our natural gas prices surged, our electricity rates increased, and we were faced with rolling blackouts in California, I started reading my electric and gas meters on a regular basis. Through a variety of measures, including insulating the attic, replacing my washer, dryer, two fridges, and unplugging a lot of vampire electronic loads when not absolutely needed, I was able to slash my electric consumption in half and my natural gas consumption by 30-50%. They are still not at the low levels in my previous residence, a much smaller house with fewer appliances etc, but it's still a significant conservation achievement. So I can understand bill payers who monitor their meters carefully, especially in places where energy costs are even higher than they are here in California.
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Post# 14473-2/28/2002-12:59 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Clothes Care)
MESSAGE: Yes, he reads it every day, in fact the tight old sod reads it twice a day. If he went out he would read it before going and on return. We then had to account, 'you've had that fire on again', which I either admitted or ran through everything, hairdryer, stereo lights til he was satisfied. After I left home, he removed the plug from the dryer so the others could not use it, like that would stop my brother.
He also hid the good coffee and left the cheap crap out, as he said we used too much, at one time he removed the handle from the hot bath tap so he could ration bath water, even tried rationing bog roll til his brother took the pi$$. I laugh about it now, but it embarassed and anneyed the hell out of me as a kid. Looking back, I realise that money was really tight and it was the only way we could eat and keep a roof over our heads, so I appreciate the old devil now.
Ironing, well I take shirts to the local ironing shop, about $1 apiece. I am too mean to pay $1 for pillowcases and teatowels and the over $3 for trousers (pants) so I do those, though I am considering a collection service to do the whole lot. If only my cleaning lady would spare me a couple more hours, she would do them, contracting out cleaning and ironing was the best thing I did. I am trying to convince He Who Must to contract out the garden, but he claims to enjoy doing it - so why is it not done! These jobs are so much cheaper to get done than I realised.
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Post# 14474-2/28/2002-13:00 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Reply to 14405, Hi Gizmo)
MESSAGE: Hello Bubbles,
You have quite strong opinions and I like that, but I think you shouldn't loose touch with reality. Gas prices overhere in Europe are not 2.5 Euro, in Germany they pay around DM2.50 per liter which is more than 1.25 Euro. I guess you are mixing up Marks and Euros here.
Being from Europe I was always fascinated with American toploaders and since I visited last years washer convention in Minneapolis I love them. For their simplicity, their durability (the good ones) and for their washer drama. And if you have a toploader because you like them better than a frontloader, that is not going to hurt the environment. But looking to a whole country, changing to frontloaders saves a lot of water and believe me there are countries in which these savings really matter.
I had to laugh over your remark about hygiene habits of some Greenies, but at the same time you suggest that a suds saving system would be a good idea. Well, I tell you my wash water is not going to be used twice, although my laundry is never dirty!!!
Louis
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Post# 14475-2/28/2002-13:01 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: Caloric POD
MESSAGE: I have seen and used Calor laundryette washers in UK, wonder if they are related. These are stainless steel FL washers.
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Post# 14476-2/28/2002-13:31 ||| robbytuck (Sioux Falls, SD)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Are you being Served, Again)
MESSAGE: Have any of you watched the sequel "Are you being Served, Again" ? I taped the 6 shows several years ago on PBS in Phoenix. Mr. Humphries ( Russ and my favorite character) begins to have some thoughts about the farmer's daughter. The 6 episodes were absolutely wonderful. Too bad there weren't more made. Even though we have seen the original shows many many times, we watch "Served" everynight on PBS here in South Dakota.
Bob
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Post# 14477-2/28/2002-14:25 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Are you being Served, Again)
MESSAGE: I also loved their 'teasling', the method they did their laundry. Anybody who knows the word of the teasling song? Quite a funny episode "and I'm unanimous in that".
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Post# 14478-2/28/2002-15:08 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Reply to 14405, Hi Gizmo)
MESSAGE: Interesting post, Mr. Bubbles. Like Louis, I have to comment on a few misconceptions...
One, California no longer has rolling blackouts. We haven't had any since last summer. Guess what? Our statewide efforts to conserve, plus state power contracts, have resulted in a surplus of electricity. And our success with conservation had a part to play in collapse of the inflated energy market and the subsequent backruptcy of evil gougers like Enron.
As stated previously, in my own home I was able to slash my electric consumption 50% with more efficient appliances and other measures. I've done calculations on the combined savings from water, gas, electricity, and the lack of need to run to the laundromat for large bulky items, and have come to the conclusion that my Neptune 7500 will pay for itself in about 7 years. There's a good thread over on THS with plenty of good analysis on the return on investment of front loaders.
As for the smaller amount of water being used in a front loader vs a top loader, casusing damage to clothes, I believe you've that 180 degrees backwards. The more gentle action of a front loader results in longer garment life than a typcial top loader with a back and forth agitator.
Consider this: today over 30% of the world's population doesn't have enough water for minmum daily basic needs: that's only 13 gallons a day! You can save twice that much by doing a single load in a water efficient front loader vs. an inefficient top loader.
You're right, there are bigger water savings to be had from other areas, such as toilets or lawns. And in California, agriculture is the largest user by far of fresh, potable water. But that doesn't mean that one should not try to conserve laundry water at home as well as in the fields. It's too convenient for everyone to point the finger at the other guy instead of everyone doing their part to conserve.
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Post# 14479-2/28/2002-16:32 ||| FilterFlo (Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio)
SUBJECT: RE: Hotpoint POD,dispensers, etc. (Double Post weirdness) (Twin Post Coning -----Which Twin(tub) Had The Toni?)
MESSAGE: Boy was that weird or what? Two posts with the same number! Angus and I scored a first! As I remember it, the lid was opened flat, the then plastic dispenser had a door that opened and you filled with detergent. You poured your powdered enzyme soak (Axion?) in the tub, and started the machine. It would run for a few minutes, the stop for a predetermined soak period. It would start up hours later, spin the water out, then start the normal cycle, with the flume diverted to add the preloaded detergent from the dispenser. It really worked great......... Jimmy
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Post# 14480-2/28/2002-16:33 ||| FilterFlo (Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio)
SUBJECT: OPPS! I meant Twin Post CLONING!
MESSAGE: sorry hit the wrong keys!
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Post# 14481-2/28/2002-18:20 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: Hotpoint POD,dispensers, etc. (Double Post weirdness) (sorry OT)
MESSAGE: Sorry OT
Fantastic, you had 'Which Twin has the Toni?' in US as well. I remember those adds in the UK, 70s maybe 80s.
As I have said before, the BF is a bit of a pi$$-taker and likes to give nicknames to people. In the area we used to live, we often saw an older man around, who had frizzy hair, reminiscent of a bad home perm job, and the BF decided that he be called 'Which twin has the Toni'.
To bring it back to appliances, we could consider perm machines, like the one in 'Theatre of Blood'
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Post# 14482-2/28/2002-18:33 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Are you being Served, Again)
MESSAGE: Hi Robby
You got me thinking for a while here, I had never heard of 'Are you being Served, Again', then your reference to teh farmer's daughter gave me a clue. A sequel was shown in the UK, but it was called 'Grace and Favour' I guess that the name was changed in the US if you don't have the expression grace and favour, usually applied to an appartment given along with a job or on retirement for which no rent is paid, ie grace and favour appartment.
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Post# 14483-2/28/2002-18:39 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Neptune not boring)
MESSAGE: Scott
Gosh, why all the spin then stop routine. Did the drum tumble around between the different spins? I must admit that I had not observed this on the old style Neptune I used, though I did not get to use it very many times.
My old AEG had a spin option called Variomatic, which spun slow, then tumbled teh creases out, spun faster, tumbled and so on til it achieve max speed of 1200. This resulted in dry crase free clothes, but the spin cycle alone took 30 mins, though it is one feature I wish my Miele had.
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Post# 14484-2/28/2002-18:49 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Are you Being Served)
MESSAGE: Yep your right, I double checked and it is Mrs Slocombe, Mrs. Mary Elizabeth 'Betty' Jennifer Rachel Yiddell Abergavenny Slocombe according to the Internet Movie Database, www.imdb.com.
So what is your Grace Bros, a proper department store with grand ladies and queens? I just love the campery of real department stores.
Anyone else here familiar with Kenneth William's story about visiting Selfridge's with Maggie Smith, who upon being advised by a very grand sales lady that a brassier cost five guineas, shrieked 'five guineas, cheaper to have yer tits off'.
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Post# 14485-2/28/2002-18:54 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (dont forget plastic)
MESSAGE: When it comes to plumbing, I'm a heathen, its plastic all the way for me. No joints anywhere innaccesible, the easiest joints to make, easy to cut, love it. I have used copper and compression joints (threaded) are a pain, and I'm too chicken to try solder. I did get the on-view bits done in chromed copper pipe though.
Having a new water main installed to replace the 100 year old lead, tiny bore pipe shared with 5 houses, the water board mandate plastic from the street to the stopcock in the house. Water board uses plastic for its new mains too.
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Post# 14486-2/28/2002-19:00 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Neptune not boring)
MESSAGE: Kirk,
Well I never knew Hoover had dropped their beater bars, glad they are back though. They would have had to drop the wondeful 'beats as it sweeps as it cleans' slogan. Love that slogan, was it used worldwide?
The beater bars probably did more to agitate the dirt out of carpets than the brushes, I remember them working really well.
Thinking about your reply about Hoover Junior dustbags. Have you ever changed one of these, vile messy dirty job, the cleaner is a great design classic, but that bottom fill non-sealing bag, yuck.
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Post# 14487-2/28/2002-19:02 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Are you Being Served)
MESSAGE: But, he could be Rosy Bothways.
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Post# 14488-2/28/2002-19:10 ||| scott55405 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Neptune not boring)
MESSAGE: That slogan was used in America, though our Hoovers have not had beater bars for some time, so perhaps it has been retired. Fortunately you can still get spare brushrolls with beater bars for the older machines, and if they've come back in the UK, perhaps they will here, too. Some may argue but I think beater bars are the way to go. I don't know anything about them wearing out carpets, and I'm not buying the story about them driving the dirt deeper into the carpet rather than lifting it out.
You have not lived, until you've changed a bottom fill bag or emptied a shakeout from an estate sale find whose bag is brick solid full to the point of explosion (laughing) take precautions to protect the surface before you do! :)
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Post# 14489-2/28/2002-19:15 ||| magic clean (Florida)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (uh-huh!)
MESSAGE: Rich, your comments about 'dull' pretty much sums it up for the 'mainstream' top load washer. I believe the reason for this is, because the current designs are pretty much in their 'last' years. Surely, manufacturers resources are now concentrated on new designs to meet the 2004 and very stringent 2007 water and energy use guidelines. Kinda like standard picture tube tv's VS HDTV flat screens etc.
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Post# 14490-2/28/2002-19:17 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Neptune not boring)
MESSAGE: Kirk,
I love the idea of a full width euro tumble TL machine. As the current TL machine only occupy 75% of the space of a standard FL, we could see a 8kg, euro TL tumbler, though the drum would be wider with same diameter, so we miss the benefits of a grater diameter drum ie better extraction and wash action.
For those unfamiliar with the design, current euro TL machines are tumblers, they take the drum and rotate it to run front to back in the washer, the resultant machine is 45cm 18" wide, 60 cm 24" deep. Standard machines are 60cm square. The principal is the same as the old Launderall or the Staber.
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Post# 14491-2/28/2002-19:31 ||| kirk280980 (Lincoln UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Neptune not boring)
MESSAGE: I *think* the beats-as-it-sweeps-as-it-cleans slogan was used worldwide, but don't know for sure. I know they still had it in the bochure up til just a few years back, with the last of the Turbopower Plus series. Beater bars always work really well at drawing out sand and grit, especially if you have long pile carpets.
As for changing a Hoover Junior bag, I too have experienced that dubious pleasure. I borrowed an aunt's Junior when I first moved into my own place, before I purchased my own vacuum. They do a great job, but the bag fill design is numpty to say the least. I always found it easier to stand the cleaner on a chair, so I could pull the fill tube assembly downwards out of the cloth bag. That made it easier to swap the paper bag without spilling dust.
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Post# 14492-2/28/2002-19:43 ||| kirk280980 (Lincoln UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Neptune not boring)
MESSAGE: That statement about beater bars driving dirt deeper into the carpet reminds me of a trick used by a Kirby rep who dropped by at my house once.
The lady asked me for some salt, which I fetched from the kitchen, and proceeded to sprinkle some onto my carpet. She then picked up one of the extension wands, and tapped the carpet with it, causing the salt to sink into the pile. And that, apparently, is why the Kirby doesn't have beater bars.
Of course, I could only roll my eyes in disbelief at this. They obviously think everyone is stupid enough to fall for this trick. She toned down some of her wilder claims once she found out I sell vacuums too, and therefore know the score on these things.
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Post# 14493-2/28/2002-19:46 ||| Quest44122 (Cleveland)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (beater bars)
MESSAGE: Hey, it is good to be back. Now I have a small collection of vacuum cleaners, nothing to covet, but it makes me happy. i have one machine with a beater bar, it is a Sanitaire. I am not high on Eureka products, but this machine is really exceptional. It has a metal base and a chrome beater/bursh bar. It lifts pile on deep piled carpets like few others. And honestly, I can use another machine, then vacuum the deep piled carpets with this one, and hear things being pulled out of the pile. This is especially true of the family room. I am at a loss as to why the beater bar was elimiated.
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Post# 14494-2/28/2002-19:58 ||| kirk280980 (Lincoln UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Neptune not boring)
MESSAGE: Surprisingly, though, H-axis top loaders are the least popular type of machine we sell. We sell far more of the American TLs in comparison, because people find them easier to use. It's the spring-loaded drum access flaps on the H-axis variety that put a lot of people off. They can take a little getting used to at first, and a lot of people just aren't interested in something they perceive to be "an extra hassle".
I always have to laugh when customers open the lid, rotate the drum a few times and get a puzzled look on their faces. They're wondering how on earth they're supposed to get the clothes in. I usually step in and show them, but by then, they've usually already made up their minds that they don't like the looks of it. Which is unfortunate, because this particular design gives the best of both worlds.
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Post# 14495-2/28/2002-20:13 ||| scott55405 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (beater bars)
MESSAGE: Well, my goodness Ed! How nice to "see" you!
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Post# 14496-2/28/2002-20:15 ||| scott55405 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (beater bars)
MESSAGE: Ed, the Sanitaire is used in most all commercial applications, and from my observation if it is not, it is sooner or later! It is the best type of machine for this purpose and does a great job on carpet as you say.
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Post# 14497-2/28/2002-21:17 ||| Quest44122 (Cleveland)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (beater bars)
MESSAGE: Hello Scott. It is really good to "see" you too.
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Post# 14498-2/28/2002-21:18 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (dont forget plastic)
MESSAGE: Oh well, soldering copper can't be all that difficult, or so I understand. I wouldn't use compression joints on anything permanent, myself. It's gotta be either threaded (real threads) or soldered or glued. I have worked with plastic plumbing pipes on my fish ponds and also on my irrigation systems. Once you get the hand of it, it's a cinch, although I don't care much for the fumes. I don't know if it's allowed by code in homes around here. They don't allow plastic drain pipes. I still would prefer copper over plastic, because it is somewhat stronger, more heat stable, and possibly less toxic than plastic.
When I redo the whole house, I'm planning on going up a step in pipe sizes - 1" main piping and then 5/8" or 3/4 to the various high throughput fixtures (showers, tubs, sinks, etc). The toilets will stay at 1/2 inches.
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Post# 14499-2/28/2002-21:20 ||| DADoES (El Campo, TX)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Sanitaires and Kirbies and Singers and Constellations and Celebrities)
MESSAGE: I'm not much on vacuums, I must confess. 8-)
But . . .
My mother had a Sanitaire for some years, until my sister up and got her a Kirby G6 for Christmas a couple years ago . . and insisted the three of us kids split the cost . . . YIKES, even a three-way split was $$$.
I have an el-cheapo Singer upright (don't know the model number -- auto-height, self-propelled, no attachments), bought on close-out for $85 at Wal-Mart back in 1987, I think it was.
And I have a Hoover cannister, orange, one of those flatter-type jobbies that floats on its exhaust. It's not a Constellation, I don't think -- that's the one that is a larger rounded affair, yes?
Aha! I just did a quick Google.com search -- mine is a Celebrity! Must be the "flamingo red" color.
One of my aunts had a Constellation.
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Post# 14500-2/28/2002-21:28 ||| quest44122 (Cleveland)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Sanitaire and others)
MESSAGE: Thanks, Scott, I really like the Sanitaire, but I am quite fond of all my vacuums, for different reasons of course. I just can't be monogomous in terms of vacuum cleaners, prefer a harem. lol
I am very fond of the Royal line and have several. I am having trouble with one and do not seem to be able to get it fixed. The brush stalls constantly and it never used to do that. I have changed the belt repeatedly, even had it done professionally, the result is the same.
Royal is made in Cleveland, and at their former location that had a service entrance at the back of the factory. There were a couple of guys there who had worked on Royals their entire lifetime, they each wore hats made out of newspaper. You get get anything fixed and fixed right. It appears that Royal has given up this service and now refers you to an authorized vac shop.
I am thinking of ditching this one and opting for one of their new models with the power drive. Have an older Concept Hoover and like the power drive feature.
Any thoughts on the Royal?
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Post# 14501-2/28/2002-21:48 ||| scott55405 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Sanitaire and others)
MESSAGE: I like older Royals, but I"m hearing that the newer ones use "Dirt Devil" motors now, and are quite noisy, so I dont know that I'd want a new one, but I do like the older ones. I did not realize they were offering one with power drive! Scott
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Post# 14502-2/28/2002-22:26 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Hello foraloysius)
MESSAGE: Good to hear from you foraloysius,
Just to correct you before you get too carried away, I didn't say that a liter of petrol in Germany cost 2.5 Euro (approx. 5 Marks). What I meant was that the Greens there WANT the price to go to that level and they ARE doing their darndest to force the Govenrment's hands. I remember them making a big deal about it when I was last there in 1998. Anyway, I think that 1.5 Euro for a liter is too much.
Successive German governments have been taxing energy till the cows come home, because it makes such a good earner. Of course always with the justification that the revenue would be put to good use through developing alternative energy sources and so on - particularly since the oil embargoes of the seventies. But that was just political grandstanding as per usual. Germany is worse than Australia in being complacent about developing alternative fuel sources. High registration and fuel prices there have also not helped to reduce car ownership or traffic congestion and related environmental problems.
Here in Oz we now pay betwen 76 to 86 cents per liter and that is also too much. Since 9/11 crude prices have fallen and risen a little again, but remain around the US $20 mark per barrel. Our dollar is actually stronger against the Greenback now and realistically, that should reduce the cost of petrol to below 70 cents. In Canada they pay around 56 cents per liter and the Canadian dollar is pretty close to our currency in value, only marginally higher. But as per usual, the petrol industry here will not cut the consumers any slack. The overall plan, of course, is to desensitize people by moving the price ever closer to the psychological dollar mark per liter and to have it remain in that region.
What do you mean by calling top-loaders simplistic? - shame on you foraloysius! Have you looked at the latest control panels of Maytag and Whirlpool washers? There is nothing simplistic about them, nor were they during the 1970's and 80's. Also remember that microchip technology in appliances and soft touch controls have been around much longer in the US than in Europe, in fact it all started when I got there in the mid-seventies (same with video recorders, push button phones, ATM machines and ceramic cook tops) it all happned there long before Europa got the drift.
American washers that were produced in the sixties and seventies had a lot more to offer than anything available anywhere else. How many machines with infinite water levels, variable wash and spin speeds and automatic lint filters were available to the European public at affordable prices during the sixties and seventies? - none that I can remember. All machines used to have between 4 and 4.5 kilos and have virtually identical programming, (your boring 30, 45, 60 and 95 degree washes), maybe if you were lucky you could choose between two or three different spin speeds (which I suppose is something). How many washer/dryer combo front loaders were available in Europe prior to the seventies? Truth be told, before innovations hit Europe they were already an old hat in the US and that is a fact.
Currently Maytag and Frigidaire are offering the only front-loading models that address loading convenience through either drum tilt or optional pedestal, plus jumbo size capacity. Can't think of any European manufacturer ever coming up with bright ideas like that anytime, then again I suppose five or six kilo capacity for a Euro washer is pretty revolutionary. I suppose in the sixties and seventies people in Europe didn't have enough clothes to fill anything bigger than a four kilo machine (sorry I can't help myself, but its so true).
I remeber the arguments I used to have with some of my relatives in Germany, during visits, about the merit of daily showers and equally frequent clothing changes. Then and now we were used to wash at least one full load every day, which my relatives thought totally self-indulgent. They used to only have their Saturdy bath and that was the day they changed their clothes also (yuch!)So, laundry was only done every second week. I tried to have a daily wash using the shower attachment in the bathtub and nearly got lynched for it. Northern Euroepeans can be a little eccentric.
Manufacturing quality is also a big moot point here, this is where I get on my soap box and say that American household appliances were, and still are, of higher quality and more durable.
Suds-saving is actually not a bad idea since good detergents keep their potency. I used my suds save option a lot, naturally only on clothes that were very lightly soiled and it worked very well. If you give your clothes a good rinsing afterwards they come out as clean as if you had used a fresh fill for the wash cycle. Anyway, the suds save used to only return three quarters of the old fill, the rest would be a fresh top up to boost the temperature and I'd add a little extra detergent for extra cleaning umph. Clothes used to come out as clean as a whistle (hope you weren't implying that there was something wrong with suds recycling?).
See ya
Bubbles
P.S. Have you ever seen those dreadlocked and unwashed Greenies? I reckon they are a public health hazard, they can be locate from quite a distance, as I have discovered, just by being down-wind from them. Lets face it humanity has been striving for millennia to get out of the filth and these people are joyfully jumping straight back into it.
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Post# 14503-2/28/2002-22:36 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Sanitaire and others)
MESSAGE: I like older Royals too, especially the Queen Mother.
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Post# 14504-2/28/2002-23:26 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (No no Sudsdmaster - this can't be true!)
MESSAGE: Thirty percent of the world's popoulation didn't have enough water in the past, don't have it now, nor will they have it in the future. That is the way of the world and I am so over these arguments anyway. Have you been to Africa lately? I went to Zimbabwe, a couple of years back, travelling to the Ivory Coast and to South Africa - everything there that is bad is the white man's fault, but for the indigenous Africans to get off their collective butts to actually improve their lot is left to the few remaining white people that you can still find there. The educated indigenous Africans either bugger off to greener shores or exploit their own kind - just look at Mugabe and his cronies. Most other third world and developing nations are pretty much the same, (I have been around South East Asia too), they often aren't even that poor. It's just that their wealth distribution sucks. I still reckon the best solution is birth control and education anyway. Have fewer kids and there'll be more to go around for future generations. Also cultural and religious beliefs have a lot to do with poor resourcefulness and creativity, not the argument of top-loader versus front-loader and what types of appliances are politically correct in the developed world. People in the West have some really interesting viewpoints concerning the developing and third world. Particularly when it comes to this perceived victimization of such nations because of our wealth and life styles. They don't do anything in those countries that they don't want to do either.
I hate having my choices curtailed by the opinions of other people. If manufacturers stop producing US style top-loaders do really think that this will improve our collective lifestyles or the lot of the world? I can only see my freedom of choice disappearing.
I am glad to hear that your State's utility providers have finally gotten their act together, what happened in California was nothing short of disgusting. Something had to be done, complacency would have been political suicide for your state politicians and they had to come up with some deal obviously.
I didn't say that less water damaged clothes. I said that very high spin speeds are used in some European machines that use very little water, in fact, such little water that clothes are actually only moistened and the only way to get an effective wash happening is to have spin speeds of more than 1000 rpm. What I am saying is that this can't be good for clothes either and it does make it harder to iron out the creases that have set during the spin.
By the way, I have never had problems with my agitator machine damaging clothes.
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Post# 14505-2/28/2002-23:40 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (No no Sudsdmaster - this can't be true!)
MESSAGE: Last time I checked, high spin speeds were used to extract water from clothes, not to produce a more effective wash. What on earth does a 1000+ rpm spin speed have anything to do with washing efficiency?
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Post# 14506-2/28/2002-23:50 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Perhaps you should check again )
MESSAGE: Look at it this way, if you don't saturate your clothes, even though the tumble action will loosen the dirt, the only way that dirt is efectively removed is through a very fast spin - what is so hard to understand about that?
By European standards the Neptune is actually not that economical, but principly the amnount of water that the clothes are tumbled through also helps to remove dirt from clothes. Top loaders also work on the principle that having clothes fully immersed in the water removes the dirt through the agitator movement and the waterflowing through the fabric.
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Post# 14507-2/28/2002-00:09 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Perhaps you should check again )
MESSAGE: Wrong, the high spin is not there to remove the dirt. The dirt is removed during the wash cycle tumbling. The spins in between are not high speed. There are several rinses before the final high speed spin. These rinses remove the soapy water plus the dirt, yes, but that's essentially what all rinse cycles are supposed to do, including top loaders.
Please don't try to justify the waste of water in a top loader by co-opting the Neptune's water levels. The Neptune cleans by tumbling the clothes in and out of a small pool of water, just like the Miele and other euro front loaders. It does not clean by immersing the clothes in a large volume of water like a top loader.
When it comes to water conservation, traditional top loaders are of course at a big disadvantage. The only way they can conserve is by reducing the amount of water used for the rinsing, by using spray rinses. Not for me thanks.
As for 1000+ rpm spin speeds being damaging to clothes, someone needs to tell owners of Unimatic 1140's that their machine's high spin speeds is wearing out their clothing.
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Post# 14508-2/28/2002-00:16 ||| washrfreak (Dallas)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Perhaps you should check again )
MESSAGE: I guess I've never seen any washer (tl or fl) not saturate clothes --- though I've heard stories about the Calypso.
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Post# 14509-2/28/2002-00:27 ||| DADoES (El Campo, TX)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Perhaps you should check again )
MESSAGE: Perhaps he's talking about designs such as that LG Electronics machine that repeatedly showers the load and spins it at high speed.
Except for very delicate or sheer items that may be crushed or forced into the perforations, I don't think high spin speeds would damage clothing. The individual item don't actually move during spin, they are held stationary against the basket.
My F&P ramps up to 700 RPM for a few seconds on every cycle (I think), even Delicate, toward the end of the first spin, for better extraction before the deep rinse. Of course, 700 RPM isn't 1200 or 1600 as the Euro frontloaders can do.
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Post# 14510-2/28/2002-01:49 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Perhaps you should check again )
MESSAGE: According to others who post on this board, the Neptune uses 100 liters of water for a complete cycle. Most Euro machines apparently use around 80 or less? Well, that still means that it uses more doesn't it? This has nothing to do with co-opting.
Look at it this way, when you have a 10 or 12 pound load and your machine fills with 10 or 15 liters (3 to four gallons) of water you don't get deep saturation to the same degree that you would with a machine like the Neptune, which I am sure uses more than that per fill. All that happens is that the soapy solution is sufficient in volume to completely wet the clothes. The rubbing and tumbling action loosens the dirt with the help of the detergent. Unlike the Neptune which also sends waterfalls over the clothes by its specially designed baffles and has enough water in its tub to fully saturate clothes, so that water is also pushed much more liberally through the fabric. That is why the Neptune doesnt need to spin so fast, because the dirt is actually suspended in the wash solution at the botom of the machine. The high spins are necessary to more effectively extract the water and dirt from the clothes in some other f/l machines, as the dirt isn't suspended in the actual wash solution at the bottom, but needs to be extractd from the fabric itself. This is naturally followed by shallow rinse fills, which repeat the process. The emphasis here is to optimize the function of the high speed spin in soap and soil removal. In principle this is almost like a spray rinse. If you don't want to take it from me talk to the experts that come up with these ideas. I have also heard that there is now a machine out in Europe that supposedly only uses 15 liters of water for a complete wash and rinse of, I think, 5 kilos? If anyone else knows of this, let me know what machine this is.
Anyway, this is how it was explained to me by somebody who supposedly knew, so I didn't co-opt or pull this out of my a**e.
Of course very fast spins are no good for clothes, even if it just means more cumbersome ironing. I think 600 to 800 rpm is fine and would probably also require less power.
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Post# 14511-3/1/2002-02:06 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Perhaps you should check again )
MESSAGE: Perhaps, Glenn, but that LG is a top loader, not a front loader!
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Post# 14512-3/1/2002-02:27 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Perhaps you should check again )
MESSAGE: Yes, the Neptune uses about 25 gallons per load. But it also has 50% more capacity than euro front loaders, so the 20% difference in water consumption is perfectly normal and does not constitute an endorsement for total immersion ala top loader action. All modern front loaders have auto-sensing water levels, where as the clothes take up water, more water is added to maintain enough of a pool of water in the machine to thoroughly saturate the load. This stuff about "merely moisten" is BS.
A top loader's agitator is the source of harshness on clothes with that format. Many front loader users have noted less lint in the dryer after switching from a top loader to a front loader.
The high spin speed of a front loader would only be a concern for very delicate fabrics. These can be washed on the delicate cycle with not only has even more gentle tumbling patterns and/or speeds, but also lower spin speeds. Such delicates should not be washed at all in a typcical top loader.
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Post# 14513-3/1/2002-03:12 ||| eddy1210 (Vancouver, B.C. Canada)
SUBJECT: THS revisited
MESSAGE: This is getting to sound much like That Home Site. Pages and pages of TL vs FL! There are vintage TL's and vintage FL's and we love them all.
Eddy
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Post# 14514-3/1/2002-03:27 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Top-loaders rule!)
MESSAGE: Yeah, but what happens when you, or somebody else, accidentally throws in a non-colorfast item with your colorfasts? You can't even check up on that whilst your 'fancy machine' is in progress, can you? You will basically not find out until its too late, will you? This could very well mean the untimely replacement of your wardrobe and in this case, I doubt that your machine will have paid for itself in seven years. Lets hope that never happens to you.
At least with my wonderful top-loader I can nip things like that in the butt. And I do wash very delicate items in my machine, which doesn't even have a slower wash speed. I just turn such items inside out and pop them into a washbag - no problemo.
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Post# 14515-3/1/2002-03:38 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: THS revisited (This is war Eddy! )
MESSAGE: I am sick to death of these bloody top-loading fascists with their 'improved water consumption' and more efficient this and that. Bottom line is, that front-loaders will never replace top-loaders. They rate too high with most people in the convenience stakes. The few savings one can make, with one of those fronties, are negligible in comparison to the convenience and performance of a good quality, full-sized top-loading dream.
Sudsmaster doesn't realize that I am not a front-loader virgin, I used those before I got put onto top-loading automatics a long time ago and long before Sudsy there would have considered buying one. Although, I must admit that if I were forced to pick a front loader it would probably be a Neptune. Just hope that should this ever happen (hope not) they will have a window.
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Post# 14516-3/1/2002-03:39 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances ("
nip in the butt???"
)
MESSAGE: What an interesting attempt. I can pause the Neptune at any point in the cycle, even during a spin, and check. And it's just as easy to mix colorfast with noncolorfast in a top loader and miss the fact until it's too late. I believe Rachel did that on an episode of Friends in a laundromat top loader. Maybe she didn't have the requisite butt-nipping expertise.
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Post# 14517-3/1/2002-03:43 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Yes, nip in the butt - yo better take heed!)
MESSAGE: I don't watch friends, they all have ADD anyway.
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Post# 14518-3/1/2002-03:51 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: THS revisited (This is war Eddy! )
MESSAGE: So sorry, Mr. Bubbles, that you are finding the facts about front loaders to be so indigestible. But I don't think that's any excuse to be calling people nasty names or making uninformed assumptions about their experiences.
I'm glad you like your top loader, and I know there are many here and elsewhere that prefer them. I like to gaze upon the agitated waters from time to time, myself. The only point that others and I have been trying to make is that front loaders are more water and energy efficient, and generally result in cleaner and longer lasting clothes. If to you all that is not worth the perceived greater convenience of a top loader, hey, go for it, enjoy your top loader. I don't think anyone in any country is outlawing top loaders. I just think that eventually in the USA as has happened in Europe, front loaders will become the more common machine because of their various real benefits.
If you can supply us with proof of a front loading political party staging goon raids on top loader installations, or putting top loaders in concentration camps, then perhaps I'd agree with you.
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Post# 14519-3/1/2002-04:00 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: THS revisited (This is war Eddy! )
MESSAGE: Unpalatable? Did you look that up in the dictionary? What goes through your mind as you kneel in front of your Neptune? Perhaps you should stick your head in there and deactivate the safety switch and put it on spin, that'll sort you out.
Are you implying that my clothes are not as clean as yours or that I run around in rags?
I don't usually call people names and I don't make assumptions.
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Post# 14520-3/1/2002-04:03 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: THS revisited (This is war Eddy! )
MESSAGE: You sell those Neptunes don't you?
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Post# 14521-3/1/2002-04:35 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: ACHTUNG!!! HERR-MIELE!!!
MESSAGE: Sorry to have taken so long in replying to your post.
Firstly, I wanted to say that I am very sorry about your spoilt weekend. Happy though, that whatever the problem was, it was only a false alarm. Hope you treated yourself to something nice to make up for the scare.
The beach was good, thank you. We are now moving into autumn and I think the really hot weather is pretty much over till next summer. Not that Sydney gets exceptionally hot weather with any great frequency, this place can actually be quite cool, even at the height of summer.
Well, I was very impressed by the descriptions of your front loading machines. As I have stated before the front-loading Hoover, that my parents owned, had the standard 4.5 kilo capacity, there were no larger machines at that time. Not really big enough to wash king or queen sized dooners. I managed to fit one of our woolen blankets once, but it got waterlogged and so heavy that the drum began to bounce around and trying to extract the water by spining, was simply out of the question. So I had to forward the timer to finish and wait five minutes before I could open the door and, of course, had a bit of a wet old time in removing the offending article.That seems to be the problem sometimes with large articles, they may fit into the machine, but once they get wet, become too heavy for the appliance.
You said that you wash your sneakers and tennis shoes in your washer? Doesn't that make an awful racket? I would have thought that the uneven distribution of the shoes would make the drum bounce around also. I know that most tumblers now come with a half-fill option, but I remember that underloading our machine made it unbalance during spins and the washing effectiveness was compromised.
I do agree with your views in general. Different markets have different preferences and so on. You are quite right that full-sized American washers are a little too big and thirsty for the average European household. I am sure that during the fifties and sixties particularly, very few people would have bought American TLS in England. They must have been quite expensive and the installation and space requirements simply didn't exist in most households. The same applies to Germany. People didn't actually go out and spend up on luxury consumer items until the late sixties anyway - not much happened during the fifties and most of the sixties. The consumer boom set in around 69/70. That was when you began to notice color tvs, washers, small appliances, stereos etc. in more homes. Prior to that, people were not very cashed up and their tastes modest. By 1969/1970 most agitator washers were off the shelves in Germany and top-loaders were either automatic or semi-automatic horizontals.
Mum got her first dishwasher (Bosch), in 1971 and did she cop a ribbing from my aunts in particular. Dishwashers didn't gain in popularity as quickly as other appliances. My Aunts told mum in no uncertain terms, that handwashing dishes was 'quicker and better', that she had 'wasted her money', that she was 'a few cents short of a dollar' and they were quite concerned that she might get bored with herself too. Funnily enough all of them now have dishwashers themselves.
Out of interest, my maternal grandparents were living in Astoria Park in New York in the 50's and nan already had all the major appliances; e.g. DW, Washer and dryer(all Kenmore by the way), built-in cabinets and wall oven with timer plus an electric cooktop with fan hood. She also had a tv built into the wall opposite the breakfast nook, which was quite state of the art for the time. Certainly a contrast to your average German household of the fifties or sixites.
I get very frustrated with our marketplace here. Arrrooohhh reckons that we have this amazing choice and to a certain degree he is right. The only thing is that our market is very fickle and often a great product finds its way onto the shelves and then its gone the next day. This can actually cause difficulties with warranty support as I have found out in person, but have also heard tales of other people's mishaps.
I already mentioned my American GE dishwasher to you, which I only replaced a couple of years back, because the trades people weren't familiar with the model and couldn't or wouldn't fix it, even though their company represented the brand. Another lady I know of had purchased an American fridge with the compressor on top (brand escapes me right now). It broke down after only two years and because the line had been discontinued, she had to wait several months to get the replacement part. In effect, she had to buy a new fridge to tide her over.
Rebadging of products is another really annoying thing. Arrrooohhh and I have already had a discussion about this. I get really peeved when European or Asian made appliances are sold under US brand names. We have got all the major European companies represented here already, so I don't see why we can't get US made appliances anymore. Washers and fridges we do, but cookers, dishwashers and what ever else we don't.
Take steam irons, I like them with thumb controls, which used to be 90% of irons 15 years ago. Now all the Australian irons are made by, what appears to be, the one supplier, somewhere in China. They all look very much the same and they all have the temp control under the handle (which I can't stand). Black and Decker used to sell their Quick'n'Easy and Light'n'Easy range, which had the feature that I liked and I still use both of them. But the line has been discontinued by B&D. The only iron that still has the thumb control is called 'Professional Series' marketed here by Mistral and in the US by B&D. Who knows how long that will be available before its discontinued.
The bottom line is that Europhiles like arrrooohhh can get their rocks off, whilst appliance connoisseurs like me get nothing. Life really sucks sometimes. I think I'll have to move to the US if my luck doesn't pick up.
By the way, a couple of days ago there was a post regarding percolators. My Russel Hobbs percolator is my pride and joy. It wipes floor with drip machines.
See ya
bubbles
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Post# 14522-3/1/2002-05:54 ||| gizmo (Great Ocean Road, Victoria, Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Meadowbank.)
MESSAGE: Yes, Herr-Miele, I will post them one day. I have a 56kbps modem that gets 33kbps connections if i'm lucky, and i'm still unsure about scanning and stuff. I have a scanner but haven't had much success yet.
I love the Yahoo photo albums that other members haver but I haven't a clue how to set one up myself. Could others tell me to do it please?
Chris.
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Post# 14523-3/1/2002-05:59 ||| gizmo (Great Ocean Road, Victoria, Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Switched Reluctance Motors)
MESSAGE: Hi Louis.
My little Philips TL tumble washer has the same control. Doesn't it sound great to wind the spin speed up slowly?
These little motors are great, it's a pity the circuitry that drives them is so crude and inefficient. I would like to redesign the speed controller to improve the efficiency but I have only a thousand or so more important tasks ahead at present...
Chris.
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Post# 14524-3/1/2002-06:12 ||| arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)
SUBJECT: HERE IT IS!!!
MESSAGE: After having recieved so much pleasure from this club. I am very proud to present something to share with you all.
Its the Choice 1971 Austomatic Washing Machine Test! YAY!
Its onle the profiles of the 9 machines tested however. The WHole article is 27 pages and it took me three days just to get this much up. It is interesting reading though so I will get it up ASAP.
In the meantime Enjoy. You shall also see too what must of been the worlds last ever orbital Kelvinator.
LINK: http://au.photos.yahoo.com/bc/arrrooohhh/lst?&.dir=/Choice+1971&.src=ph&.view=t&.last=1
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Post# 14525-3/1/2002-06:13 ||| arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: HERE IT IS!!! (Oh No!)
MESSAGE: It comes up as restriced. How do I change that?
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Post# 14526-3/1/2002-06:15 ||| arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Meadowbank.)
MESSAGE: Just go into yahoo, click on photos and follow the steps. I had no idea so I just played around till something happended.
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Post# 14527-3/1/2002-06:17 ||| arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: HERE IT IS!!! (Oh No!)
MESSAGE: Fixed it! Sorry about the needless posts.
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Post# 14528-3/1/2002-07:08 ||| washrfreak (Dallas)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Perhaps you should check again )
MESSAGE: Perhaps we're arguing semantics. "All that happens is that the soapy solution is sufficient in volume to completely wet the clothes" -- I believe that IS the definition of saturate.
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Post# 14529-3/1/2002-07:10 ||| washrfreak (Dallas)
SUBJECT: RE: THS revisited
MESSAGE: I second that!
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Post# 14530-3/1/2002-07:13 ||| gizmo (Great Ocean Road, Victoria, Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (abuse)
MESSAGE: Dear Bubbles
This is a discussion page about VINTAGE APPLIANCES. It is not a forum to abuse those who have diferent politics to you.
I am quite friendly with some of the "dreadlocked unwashed greenies" you scorn. Some of them have been trying to protect magnificent forests about to be logged within a couple of km from my home. They have taken time off work or uni do do something they believe in. They sometimes appear unwashed because they have been in the forest continuously for a week or more. I have had some come to my home for a cuppa and a break, and to have a hot shower which they greatly apppreciated. You tell me not to refer to some people in my area as rednecks. Have you met the people I am talking about? Have you had them screaming their hate in your face as I have? I wasn't referrring to all the locals, most people around here are fantastic. But some are complete turkeys.
In another post you refer to washers using 15 liters per wash. I think you will find this is 15 litres per FILL. That is a fill to wash and several fills to rinse. The Neptune uses more water because it is a bigger washer - takes more kilos of clothes. The water use per kilo is similar to smaller Euro ones.
When you take into account the small load size of most twin tub washers, they use more water PER KILO than an front loader, even if you re-use the water. A Hoover TT only washes about 2.5 kg and uses about 40 litres. Even if you get two loads out of a wash fill, that is 40 litres for 5 kg and you haven't rinsed the clothes yet...
You tell me I should have tanks and shouldn't rely on local water utilities. I do. My property is only connected to telephone. My water comes from rainwater tanks. My sewage is treated onsite. My power comes from solar panels and a wind generator. My hot water comes from solar and a wood fire. And before you mention it, I only burn plantation wood. I put my money where my mouth is.
Yes, there is a front load washing machine association. It is just a group of manufacturers/importers of front load washers marketing their products. It is not some scary group of front load Nazis. They produce a leaflet about how their products can save water, power and detergent.
I am not a front load Nazi either. I have two washers in my laundry, an Asko FL and a Fisher & Paykel TL. They are both excellent machines. I use them at different times of the year depending whether I need to save water or power. My favourite washers of all are top loading tumble washers. Nobody is trying to stop you owning/using/buying a top loader if that is what you prefer. You seem to think they are, and resort to a lot of ignorant BS to defent your position from the imaginary attack.
Your fellow washine machine afficionado.
Also proud Greens Party member.
Chris.
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Post# 14531-3/1/2002-07:36 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: RE: HERE IT IS!!!
MESSAGE: This is great - thanks for posting them! It's interesting to see the different models and the US/OZ mix of brands.
A water heating Frigidaire! Do you know where the heating elements were in this machine? I'm curious how they would have heated water in a solid basket washer.
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Post# 14532-3/1/2002-07:40 ||| gizmo (Great Ocean Road, Victoria, Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: HERE IT IS!!! (Thanks Arrrooohhh)
MESSAGE: Thanks for posting this Arrrooohhh.
Do any of you Frigidaire experts know what name the Frigidaire shown there would be in the US? (rollermatic/unimatic/rapidry etc?)
This basically the machine my family had when I was growing up. We had a more basic version, single speed, no heater. The only options were water temperatures. I would love to get my hands on one again, even though it was a despised machine in our family. I am convinced it had a fault from day 1, it used to get wildly out of balance at EVERY spin. It would trip the OOB cut-out (manual reset) and after a few tries it would trip the motor reset (manual reset after several minutes to cool down). Eventually when it was going again it would shake the house, every window in the house would rattle. And it was a solid house, Dad was a builder. It was serviced several times, taken away and rebuilt once, but it ALWAYS misbehaved on spin for fifteen years or so. In its last year the pump died, I was a teenager by then and getting a bit mechanically minded. I put the pump from our old long-discarded swimming pool underneath, and connected it in place of the washer's own pump. It plugged separately into the mains, we switched it on with each load. It ran continuously through the cycle, as it was a solid basket machine the pump was only given any water to pump when the machine spun the water over the sides of the inner tub (basket).
I had no idea that the orbital Kelvinators were sold here. The only Kelvinator washers I have seen were just Simpson clones. And in the 80's Goldstar crappy impeller washers were sold with Kelvinator badges. So there is another machine for me to watch out for at the recycling centres.
Chris.
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Post# 14533-3/1/2002-07:48 ||| gizmo (Great Ocean Road, Victoria, Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: HERE IT IS!!!
MESSAGE: Wow, that's an interesting question.
I would guess that it was in the base of the outer tub.
I think (alarm alarm - just guesswork here) that water level would be sensed by a pressure switch in the outer tub. The fill would be directed to the inner tub. When it was full and overflowing the water would begin to accumulate in the outer tub. once the water had reached the height in the outer tub to contact the base of the inner tub, heating the water in the inner tub would gradually conduct heat to the inner tub. OR if the water is recirculated, you could heat the water in the outer tub, and it would be pumped to the inner tub. I know our machine did seem to recirculate water - there was some sort of aperture at the back through which you could see a thin stream of water during wash. I don't recall ever seeing water going back into the inner tub, though. Ours had a lid safety switch which operated on all cycles, but I soon learned to press the lever down...
Chris.
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Post# 14534-3/1/2002-07:59 ||| gizmo (Great Ocean Road, Victoria, Australia)
SUBJECT: Semi Auto versions.
MESSAGE: Here is an ad from this week's Melbourne Trading Post:
Frigidaire 750 Semi-Auto. Good Condition. $60.
It reminded me of these semi-auto washers from the sixties and early seventies. Frigidaire and Whirlpool had them, and others too. They were a cheapened version of Automatic models also available. They had a clockwork timer (15 or 20 minute) plus a manual cycle selector. (wash/pump/spin) They had no water level control, if you left the tap on they would flood. My partner's family had a Whirlpool. Same as US belt drive Whirlpools. Flooding was a REGULAR occurrence. Frigidaire's version was just wash/spin, it had no seperate pump out of course. There were Kelvinator versions too, I have no idea if they were orbital or not. And other brands. I have never seen these referred to on this site, I wonder if they were made in the US or if the "semi-auto" was a peculiarly Aussie version of these essentially US designed machines.
Sorry, I'm not going to rescue it, it is 3.5 hours drive away, and my partner will kill me if I come home with another washer. We have had some new additions lately. Nothing interesting.
Chris.
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Post# 14535-3/1/2002-08:01 ||| gizmo (Great Ocea)
SUBJECT:
MESSAGE:
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Post# 14536-3/1/2002-08:09 ||| gizmo (Great Ocean Road, Victoria, Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Top-loaders rule!)
MESSAGE: The expression is "nip it in the BUD", not in the butt.
It refers to getting a problem solved whilst it is still small (bud stage of a flower) rather than letting it blossom into someting bigger or worse.
Yes, I'm a pedant too.
Chris.
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Post# 14537-3/1/2002-08:26 ||| JoeEkaitis (Rialto, California, USA)
SUBJECT: "Shampoo Action" LIVES!
MESSAGE: Whirlpool calls it "Catalyst", and front-loading washers made by Electrolux Home Products and sold under the Frigidaire, Kenmore and GE brands start the Heavy soil Cottons cycle by rotating the drum while the washer fills, allowing concentrated water and detergent to work into the fibers before being diluted by the rest of the water for the main wash. (On the Medium and Light soil settings of the Cotton cycle and in all other cycles, the drum doesn't start rotating until AFTER the washer has completely filled.)
Everything old is new again, as the song goes. :)
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Post# 14538-3/1/2002-08:51 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Thanks mate!)
MESSAGE: Nice little English lesson there gizmo, you're obviously a man of many talents. Although, I intentionally used the word 'butt' as in buttend, buttock - you know.
Yeah mate seems like you are a bit pedantic.
Take it easy and don't have a cow.
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Post# 14539-3/1/2002-09:19 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: HERE IT IS!!! (Wow!)
MESSAGE: Tremendeous effort arrrooohhh!
How many of the 27 pages are you planning on placing in your photo album? Do you have even earlier and perhaps later consumer reports? (I'm being greedy here, but I love this). It would be great if one could get hold of any colored brochures, for any of these machines, showing both inside and out.
Aren't these machines beautiful? Apart from that English made Bendix, three months full warranty and nine months part replacement only, no freight or labor costs included? At nearly $500, that sounds positively dodgy. For such a reputable company that actually surprises me.
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Post# 14540-3/1/2002-10:19 ||| Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: HERE IT IS!!! (WOW that was fun)
MESSAGE: WOW arrrooohhh, this is just fascinating, thank you. You can see some common traits between the American and Australian washers, but there are some obvious major differences too! I would love to see pictures of these machines as well as pictures of their interiors. As an American who has never been to Australia (hope to rectify that sometime soon) I had no idea that your automatics were so similar to ours. I also didn’t realize that Australia had so many Australian made top loaders too! It’s so very fun looking at those pictures, it’s sort of like the difference between our countries spoken accents. We recognize each other and can understand the language, but there is something decidedly different about them which makes them interesting. I wonder how much Craters and Freighters would charge me to ship an Aussie washer-LOL. I want one or ten!
WOW, I’m just dying to read the other pages in the Choice Magazine Article. It would also be very interesting to see some Australian women’s magazine ads for these machines. If you boys from Down Under want to send me some more of these articles I can scan these pages at high resolution and stitch them together rather quickly with PhotoShop and return them safely to you. I would be very careful with them and get them back to you guys quickly. It would be nice to add the entire Choice Articles to our own Appliance Rating Article Library from our Home page, and it would be also nice to have some of the ads for these Australian Beauties in the Picture of the Day module.
As for the water heating Frigidaire, I don’t think they could have the heating element inside the solid wash tub. It would have been very expensive to rig up electrical wiring connections that could spin (and not be ripped off of the stationary terminals or tangle the wires up. I would bet that it used some kind of recirculation system and heated the water in the outer tub.
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Post# 14541-3/1/2002-10:46 ||| Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: THS revisited (Really)
MESSAGE: Thanks Eddy. I do agree with you and we do love them all. Each machine has its strength and its weaknesses, not one to be built yet is best at everything, but that really doesn't matter anyway. I have 20 automatic washers (18 topies and 2 fronties), 2 combos, and 3 dryers hooked up to water and power at the moment and I use them all. I have also used at one point or another most of today's modern washers at friend’s houses on numerous occasions. To be honest, I just don't see that much of a difference between any of them. If you don't believe me, try hooking up 20 of them (both vintage and modern) side by side and using them consistently, you'll see what I mean. Before anyone goes screaming and yelling and carrying on about one specific washing machine or type of washing machine being the only thing that should be made because its so great, I suggest doing real side by side comparisons and not doing comparisons from old memories. Do share your comparisons with us, but in reality do these comparisons for yourself because your opinion is not going to be shared by everyone, they will find something else and that’s what makes the world go round.
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Post# 14542-3/1/2002-11:19 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: THS revisited (This is war Eddy! )
MESSAGE: Sorry to bust your bubble, but no, I don't sell Neptunes, and I rarely find the need to kneel before the Neptune. I never used the word "unpalatable" either.
As for your other comments, no further public comment.
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Post# 14543-3/1/2002-11:33 ||| Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: HERE IT IS!!! (Thanks Arrrooohhh)
MESSAGE: At 710 RPM it could be a 2 speed Multimatic or a Rollermatic. I suspect its a Rollermatic being produced in 1971.
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Post# 14544-3/1/2002-12:28 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (numpty & great vac site)
MESSAGE: Kirk,
I love that 'numpty' word you use. I have never heard it before, is is local to your area?
Hoover Juniors did work well, they are a dirt air design, like the Kirby. Dirty air is blown into the bag by the fan, with a short path so a less powerfull motor is needed, but fans may break if you pick up a coin or nail. Newer design uprights use the clean aiy system, more like a cylinder vac, and teh fan sucks air into the bag, so is filtered before hitting teh fan. Apologies if you know this, but I find it interesting. A great vacuum site that explains much about vac technology is ristenbatt, link below.
LINK: http://www.ristenbatt.com/index.html
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Post# 14545-3/1/2002-12:49 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Hello foraloysius)
MESSAGE: Hi Bubbles,
I understand your keenness for US style appilinces, they do have so much to offer, but you do seem very anti euro machines, which too have a lot to offer, albeit different things. You describe good experiences with a Hoover Euro machine, yet still seem totally opposed to them, I understand that you do not want one in your home, but the feel I get from your posts is that your distaste for these machines goes wider than that. Why do you describe or 30, 40 60 and 95 washes as boring - what is boring about a boil wash? I would have thought that many washer afficionados who have only esperienced US style hot washes would enjoy experienceing a boil wash. For accuracy, as well as these temps, my Miele offers cold, 50 and 75 washes, cold being heated to 20 if needed, so I get the cold warm and hot of the US style along with several additional choices.
Personally, I have had poor experiences with US sytle TLs, used in laundryettes here. I have posted about these experiences, but did not decry the technology in general, instead, I am interested in how these machines work and how to get the best from them. I know how euro FLs work and how to get teh best, so I post about this so that others who may be interested can learn, or enlighten me further.
On pedestal options, the Whirlpool Duet is made in Germany by Bauknecht, though it is not yet available in europe.
North Europeans, well yes you have a point here, we can seem odd to the rest of the world. Your comments on hygiene were spot on up til 20 years ago. I started showering daily in the early 80s, prior to this weekly baths and hair wash was considered normal - grosseroonie! My parents were appalled when I first started washing my hair daily, we had blazing rows. Now though, daily showers and clothes changes are far more common, though there are still many people from whom one keeps ones distance, I doubt this is any different to anywhere else though.
Suds saving, yes I agree, having used twin tubs, I satisfactorily got several loads out of each batch, start with hot for whites, pass through lights to darks and heavy soils and it was never a prob. The TT used a ton of water in rinsing though.
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Post# 14546-3/1/2002-12:53 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Sanitaire and others)
MESSAGE: You can have her, the rest of them too.
After Goddess Diana (I loved that woman) died and they showed no emotion, my republican (UK not US use of the word here) tendencies stregthened.
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Post# 14547-3/1/2002-12:59 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (No no Sudsdmaster - this can't be true!)
MESSAGE: Hi again Bubbles,
OK, fast spins can crease, but that it what a dryer is for, or an ironing service. Some euro machines use a spin tumble spin routine, I have posted recently about this on my AEG, that reduces creases. Without a fast spin, longer or hotter is needed in the dryer, this adds to the wear factor too.
FLs dont just moisten, they saturate a load, they just dont have much surplus water beyond that needed for saturation. They force the water through the fabric, the technology is the same principal as bashing your clothes on rocks, only more gentle, they shower the clothes as well. Fast spins do not sid teh wash performance, though they do aid rinsing.
None of my comments are denigrating TLs, just trying to put the ballance of the FL picture that you painted.
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Post# 14548-3/1/2002-13:05 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Perhaps you should check again )
MESSAGE: Suds,
I think Bubbles has a point here. My Miele does a high speed, 1000 spin between wash and rinses, and 1100 at the end. In a FL, approx 1/3 of the water per fill is held by the load and 2/3 is free in the drum, so I figure that 1/3 of the dirt is suspended in the clothes water and 50% will be removed in the spin. A TL will work exactly the same, some dirt will be in the water held by the clothes, just different fractions.
I agree that high spins do not damage clothes, my old TT did 3500.
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Post# 14549-3/1/2002-13:32 ||| Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Perhaps you should check again )
MESSAGE: I absolutely agree with you Herr-Miele. A high-speed spin between the wash and spin is very important for proper rinsing. I absolutely do see a difference in the "clear-ness" of the rinse water between my 500rpm spinning machines and my 1000+ spinning machines. But I'm going to put my technology where my mouth is and prove this to Applianceville. More to come-stayed tuned for a video demonstation boyz.
But, again, in the big scheme of things, when all is said and done and I'm wearing the clothes, I can't tell any difference between a 500 rpm and 1000 rpm article of clothing.
I also am positive that high speed spinning doesn't damage clothes. I'm sitting here at my job wearing a 7 year old button-down shirt that has been spun in the Unimatic for over 6 years and it shows absolutely now signs of wear, that goes for all my clothes. I hate to shop and spend money on clothes so I wouldn't use any machine that I thought would wear my clothes quicker. I don't believe that any of my machines cause undue wear on my clothes.
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Post# 14550-3/1/2002-13:56 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Perhaps you should check again )
MESSAGE: Hi Uni,
Looking forward to that vid. What about the girlz though, dont forget them.
I think that the final result, whether 500 or 1000 interim spins would be slight, and would mainly only effect sufferers of very bad eczema using very strong detergents.
I once read that a washer caused 3% of wear on clothes, the dryer 2% and the rest was wearing them. I think hot, especially boil washing causes most wear.
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Post# 14551-3/1/2002-14:01 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: THS revisited
MESSAGE: point taken, I will retire from it for now.
Can I check though, its not just vintage here is it, the site is called clasic, and clasic can include newer stuff.
I love TLs and FLs, new and old, they are all fascinating in their own ways.
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Post# 14552-3/1/2002-14:10 ||| Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Perhaps you should check again )
MESSAGE: Very true herr, I did mean boyz and girlz and everyone in between.
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Post# 14553-3/1/2002-14:38 ||| peteski50 (New York)
SUBJECT: RE: HERE IT IS!!! (1971 Washers!)
MESSAGE: Arrrooohhh - Thanks much this is a great link
Peter
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Post# 14554-3/1/2002-15:40 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Perhaps you should check again )
MESSAGE: Robert, that may be true of top loaders, which have only one rinse. And then I would expect it would only affect rinsing ability, not the ability to remove dirt from clothes. But with a front loader with multiple rinses, I don't believe a high speed spin after the wash and between each rinse will make enough of a difference to justify the extra energy or time required to get up to that spin speed. The issue here is how much water remains in the clothes at each low to medium speed spin, vs. how much is in the rinsing pool. Multiply that by two, or three, or even four or more rinses in a typical front loader, and the dilution of the remaining detergent in the clothes becomes very great. There may be a 10 to 20 % difference in remaining moisture content between a low speed spin and a high speed spin. What's the total remaining water content in a load that only gets a low speed spin between wash and rinse? A pint? A quart? Still a lot less than the five gallons in the first rinse. Perhaps a dilution factor of 20 for each rinse. That is 20 times 20 times 20 for a three rinse cycle, or a dilution factor of 8,000 for a front loader's rinses. What's the dilution factor for a similar load in a top loader with a single rinse? Maybe 100-200. Big difference.
Anyway, I look forward to your testing. Can you include your Frigmore in the testing? If you can wrestle it away from Neal, that is? :-)
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Post# 14555-3/1/2002-15:54 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Sanitaire and others)
MESSAGE: I was being rather tongue in cheek of course.
Then again, our republican system has not always resulted in the most impressive leaders the world has known.
It must be rather strange to be born into the royal family and instantly be subject to that peculiar set of benefits and restrictions. I'm not sure a constitutional monarchy is at all that bad an idea - you can compartmentalize the regal nonsense and pretty know what to expect out of that area. Over here, we've had various presidents either attempting to assume a royal aura (Nixon) or having it bestowed upon them by a star-struck public (JFK), and the result has not always been best for the actual administration of the government. People seem to have a need to idolize someone, whether it be an elected official, a hereditary royal, or a Hollywood screen star.
Take the object(s) of idolatry away and you have a royal vacuum. Which leads us back to the original, somewhat more appropriate topic: Royal Vacuums... :-)
Being a Californian, I prefer Eureka!
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Post# 14556-3/1/2002-16:08 ||| scott55405 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Perhaps you should check again )
MESSAGE: Another thing I have discovered through the club and my own experiences is that the need for slow speed spins for your average run of the mill perm press clothes is a fallicy. I think I actually tend to get better results with them spinning them fast than not. Only time it might be helpful is in the case of a "drip dry" sweater or something.
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Post# 14557-3/1/2002-16:10 ||| scott55405 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Perhaps you should check again )
MESSAGE: Herr-Miele, do you boil wash your whites? Use profile washes and etc.? I don't know if I've ever asked you what you do with your colors and etc? Do you use the quick cycle, or ?
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Post# 14558-3/1/2002-16:17 ||| Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Perhaps you should check again )
MESSAGE: Hi Rich, actually while I cant give you any specific numeric percentages from my experiences I believe the difference in the remaining moisture content in the clothing is much greater than 10% to 20% from only spinning the wash on low speed. I do believe though that if modern front loaders would use high speed spin between the wash and the rinse they wouldn’t need so many rinses. While they probably wouldn’t save any more water by doing this high speed spin, because more water would be needed to saturate the drier clothing during the rinse, but they would save on the time it take to complete the cycle.
As for my “test” I’m simply going to show a large load and I’m going to use three times the recommended amount of detergent and run it through a normal cycle with 10 minutes of wash time selected. Using that much detergent is going to make the washer over suds to the point that the suds are pouring out of the top of the machine and then the machine will spin out the water and suds at very high speed. In the video I’ll show clips of scenes from every part of this cycle. I’ll let Applianceville decided for yourselves what the rinse water looks like.
Rich I would do this test in a Frigmore but I don’t have one, the closest thing I have to that is a 1979 Westinghouse Front Loader that Neal uses. Besides I really don’t know if a front loader could handle three times the amount of recommended detergent. It might, but I bet it need to use a lot more water to rinse away those suds. Although it would be fun to see what happens. Maybe on of you guys could try it after I do the video.
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Post# 14559-3/1/2002-17:24 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Hullo Herr-Miele )
MESSAGE: Herr-Miele,
Post 14521 was actually meant for you and progresses from the previous posts we have sent to each other. The one that you just responded to was aimed at foraloysius and the little exchange that we had. Do pay attention next time please.
I know you are not bagging out on top-loaders, what makes you think that I should have this impression though? I do actually read what you write and understand it. As far as my posts to other respondents on this site are concerned - I also often ponder the spoon in my coffee cup. Don't you enjoy a good stir once in a while?
I don't 'hate' European appliances, I'm far too busy in my life to waste such powerful emotions on plastic.
Read post 14521 and things may become clearer.
Good day to you too
Bubbles
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Post# 14560-3/1/2002-17:34 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: THS revisited (This is war Eddy! )
MESSAGE: Gawd, you are a cutie aren't you Sudsie!
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Post# 14561-3/1/2002-18:15 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Perhaps you should check again )
MESSAGE: In my short time using a Unimatic, I have noticed no clothes/fiber damage from either spinning or agitation. In fact, I think it's more gentle than conventional oscillating agitation. I'm not sure how one would judge damage resulting from faster spins, guess you'd have to start by using one! You'd be a convert, I'm sure!
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Post# 14562-3/1/2002-18:18 ||| golittlesport (California)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Sanitaire and others)
MESSAGE: ha-ha...thats sounds like soemthing Bob Appnut would say.
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Post# 14563-3/1/2002-18:21 ||| DADoES (El Campo, TX)
SUBJECT: RE: HERE IT IS!!!
MESSAGE: arrrooohhh --
You might try scanning at a lower resolution, so the images aren't quite so large -- that will make for faster uploading for you, and downloading when the pictures are viewed.
I find that scanning at 100 DPI is generally sufficient for a nicely-viewable image at 1024x768 on a 19" monitor. For something with small text, perhaps 150 DPI would be better.
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Post# 14564-3/1/2002-18:31 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (numpty & great vac site)
MESSAGE: Excellent site - thanks for the link. I just bought a Miele Solaris Electro-Plus for home use and love it!
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Post# 14565-3/1/2002-18:51 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (numpty & great vac site)
MESSAGE: You're welcome,
I shall have to look up the model you have. In the UK, the Miele electrohead is called the Revolution. I have a Miele Solution which has an air driven brushroll and a soft wood floor brush. Great vacs, enjoy it.
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Post# 14566-3/1/2002-18:59 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Perhaps you should check again )
MESSAGE: To follow up, the RMC difference between the low speed spin (about 500 rpm) of the Neptune 7500 between washes and rinses, and the high speed spin (about 1000 rpm) at the final spin, is about 20%. That is, the high speed spin should give a standard RMC of about 32%, and the low speed spin a standard RMC of about 50%. Now, that's a huge difference in terms of drying times, where all the moisture needs to be removed. But it's a trivial difference in terms of rinsing when multiple rinses are used (as in most front loaders). That's because that 20% difference in RMC translates to about 1 pint of water. With multiple rinses that means instead of a 1:8,000 dilution factor, maybe there's a 1:6,000 dilution factor. Still more than enough!
LINK: http://www.eren.doe.gov/buildings/codes_standards/rules/cwrule/clwshr_rule.pdf
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Post# 14567-3/1/2002-19:13 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: ACHTUNG!!! HERR-MIELE!!!
MESSAGE: Hi Bubbles,
Thnks for your conmments about my weekend. Glad you enjoyed the beach, I am still envious.
To answer your question about sneakers, I have not worn these for ages, so have not washed them in my Miele, though I have washed sneakers in my AEG and Creda with no problems, no jumping or banging. I have washed heavy rubber backed door mats in the Miele, in fact I was my door mats every week or 2nd week. I have only used TOL machines, BOL probably would give the problems you describe.
The info you give about your family's appliances is very interesting.
I have said in another post that I will drop out from these TL/FL threads, I too don't want to se this become like THS. SO I hope you understand that it is nothing personal, but I am excusing myself from these threads now. I have enjoyed our discusions and am sure we will come back to them some other time.
I am sorry if you are pissed at me for responding to your reply to Louis, but hey this is a public forum and anyone replies if they have a contribution they wish to make, email is a better forum for one on one. Glad to note that you don't hate euro appliances and had picked up that I was not denigrating TLs.
Yes, I too enjoy a good stir, but personally I dont think this an appropriate place, especially as I am new here and still sussing what is acceptable - I think I have pushed boundaries enough with some of my language in other posts.
G'day and take care.
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Post# 14568-3/1/2002-19:31 ||| golittlesport (California)
SUBJECT: RE: THS revisited (everyone has their own opinion)
MESSAGE: I hate to stick my nose into this little debate, but, here goes:
I respect your opinion that a top loader is more convenient and that convenience outweighes the energy use advatages of a h-axis machine.
But, I do not feel the same as you do. I have owned many top loaders and now own a front loader (Electrolux made Kenmore). I would NEVER go back to a top loader. First of all, I don't think a top loader is any more convenient. I don't have to bend over any more than I do when loading/unloading the dryer. In fact, clothing comes out of my front loader much easier than when I had to try and yank heavy wet clothing, twisted in knots, around a huge agitator with vanes going every which way. I much prefer the light, "fluffed" clothes I get now. They easily come out one at a time...much easier on the back than trying to get a load of intertwined jeans out my old top loader. I prefer the way my clothes are now in every category...less wrinkles, rinsed better, and spun drier.
And that is my personal opinion. And only my opinion. There is no right or wrong. People that cannot accept it if someone doesn't hold the same view as they do should just be silent.
I love vintage top loaders. I wish I owned a Frigidaire Unimatic...maybe someday I will. But I would never buy myself a new top loader over a new front loader...I don't see the advantage, even if I can get a top loader for $288. But anyone else can and I'll congratulate you on your purchase if that is what you want. Because everyone has the right to their own opinion and we all need to respect each other's opinion, even if we do not personally agree with it.
I steer clear of THS...a few too many self-righteous nuts loose there ranting and raving and spewing out mis-information and non-facts.
Rich
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Post# 14569-3/1/2002-19:42 ||| golittlesport (California)
SUBJECT: RE: HERE IT IS!!!
MESSAGE: Thanks, Aarrough! That will make some great Friday evening reading. I appreciate you taking the time to share thsi with us.
Rich
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Post# 14570-3/1/2002-19:48 ||| kirk280980 (Lincoln UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (numpty & great vac site)
MESSAGE: "Numpty" isn't a word used often in England, but you will hear it more in Scotland. I'm three-quarters Scots, from my crude calculations, which probably explains my regular use of the word. I don't have the accent, though, as I never lived there long enough. With my father in the Navy, I spent my childhood moving around constantly, and never stayed anywhere long enough to pick up the local accents.
The direct air vacuums are fantastic at carpet cleaning, in my opinion. Some of them can have rather poor hose suction (Junior, Turbopower etc.), but that isn't the primary function of these cleaners. The Kirby, on the other hand, really does have quite good hose suction, due to the larger fan and motor. With the 12-foot hose, I think it works great as a canister vac. Only downside is, Kirby make a really crummy carpet/floor head, which is obscene considering the purchase price.
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Post# 14571-3/1/2002-19:53 ||| Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Sudsy-Math to me.)
MESSAGE: Sounds interesting Rich, too bad I don't understand it. Looks like fuzzy math to me or should I say "Sudsy-Math".
With all due respect, if a word is worth one word and if a picture is worth a thousand words, a video of real life is worth a million words. :)
Stay tuned.
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Post# 14572-3/1/2002-20:02 ||| kirk280980 (Lincoln UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Hello foraloysius)
MESSAGE: Grosseroonie - now I like that word! Mind if I pinch it? LOL
With regards to different types of washers, I think it's important to remember that everyone has different needs and expectations, hence the reason why there are so many different choices available. I own a front loader at the moment, because I don't have room for anything else, and my water is metered. But I do prefer top loaders. I know they guzzle water, but it's just my personal preference. And there's nothing wrong with liking something just for the sake of it.
Did you really have blazing rows over hair-washing, of all things? Just the idea of that sounds rather humourous! I take a bath twice a day, and always change out of my work uniform as soon as I get home. I know people who take a bath once a week, and make a work shirt last a few days, and you'd never catch me doing that in a million years. Yuck!
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Post# 14573-3/1/2002-21:37 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: Who can identify the....
MESSAGE: Who can identify the top-loading dishwasher that used to appear on the set of the earlier b/w 'Bewitched' show. This particular t/l dw had a window in its front panel (unusual), raised rear-mounted controls and was part of Samantha's kitchen inventory for only a few episodes. It also seemed wider than other top-loading dishwashers of time. It may have been a prop designed specifically for the show's set, although I doubt it somehow. If anyone knows anything about this mystery appliance, I would be very happy to read about it.
I have never seen this model anywhere else and it captivated my curiosity from the first time I noticed it, when still I was a wee little bairn watching the show.
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Post# 14574-3/1/2002-22:16 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: ACHTUNG!!! HERR-MIELE!!!
MESSAGE: Sorry Herr-Miele,
I didn't realize that I was making you feel uncomfortable. It wasn't my intention to put you in a spot by expressig my personal views, which is what everybody else seems to be doing here also, unless I am missing something. I don't mean to upset, but in all my posts I have always maintained that what I say, is based on my personal opinions and experiences. I know I am a little forthright sometimes and my opinions don't always run paralel to other's viewpoints in this forum, but 'that's life'.
I noticed that I am not the only repondent here, who appears to become a little emotionally involved when broaching certain issues (I am not referring to your responses either). How does the saying go "people in glasshouses...".
I am not p***ed at you for reading the other post, I know that this is a public forum. I was just being a bit cheeky. As an Englishman, I am sure, you can appreciate this.
Take it easy and toodles
bubbles
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Post# 14575-3/1/2002-22:23 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Sudsy-Math to me.)
MESSAGE: Well let me put it more simply. I have no doubt that the 1140 rpm spin between wash and rinse on your Unimatic will prove to be most effective in getting rid of the triple sudsing you propose. Contrary to our transplanted Australian's assertions, a top loader needs a high speed spin between wash and rinse because it only gets one rinse.
However, I doubt that your triple sudsing will prove anything more than that it's a bad idea to oversuds a front loader :-). Theory (and some experience) leads me to believe that the multiple rinses of a front loader make the speed of the spin between wash and rinse much less critical than it would be in a single rinse top loader.
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Post# 14576-3/1/2002-23:01 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Sudsy-Math to me.)
MESSAGE: So what spin speed do you propose is adequate for top-loaders?
I know the F&P t/l spins at 1000 rpm plus our Aussie Hoovers go up to between 800 or 900 rpm, which I think is sufficient. I simply don't see any justification for sustained spins that are much faster than that, it must require quite a lot of electricity and must also increase wear and tear on the appliance. My Kleenmaid (SQ) machine does a little over 700 rpm and there is no notable soap residue using one spray and one deep-fill rinse for a full load. Only when I launder VERY dirty clothes do I double up on the deep rinse.
I have removed clothes from Miele machines that spun at above 1000 rpm and didn't like the way clothes were almost fused together, a crow bar would have been handy. It made removing them quite difficult, since the opening of the machine was small. You try to pull out one thing and everything else is stuck to it and you end up with this big clump that you need to separate by sticking your arms through the tiny port hole. Otherwise I'd manage to pull out one thing and another item would be pulled out at the same time and fall on the floor - very annoying.
By the way Sudsie, I've never had a transplant, explain yourself mate.
Cheers Big Ears
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Post# 14577-3/1/2002-23:28 ||| Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: The Sudsy Challenge
MESSAGE: OK guys, now...
Rich I do agree its not a good idea to oversuds a front loader, but I'm still not convinced that high speed spinning between the wash and the rinse isn't the most effective way way to rinse. But I'm up for the challenge, please prove me wrong with more than just fancy numbers, do it in real life and with images. And if oversudsing a front loader kills it, then maybe its not the perfect machine after all.
and as for you Bubbles, enough with the "agitating" of the club for one day please. Thank you. And if a washer is built well enough it can spin at any speed without any detrimental effect on it.
Now lets turn all this borderline bickering into a friendly challenge that's fun for everyone in Applianceville shall we...
LINK: http://www.classicappliances.com/Challenge.htm
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Post# 14578-3/1/2002-00:00 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: The Sudsy Challenge
MESSAGE: Oh, I agree that a high speed spin between wash and rinse is beneficial, it's just more beneficial for a single-rinse type of machine than a multiple rinse type of machine. That's all I'm a-sayin'!
Oh, and I've downloaded and watched the rinse cycle! Fantastic! (and that amount of sudsing would be normal for the wash cycle in a front loader!!!). I don't care about who wins what argument here, I just love the sound of that Unimatic!
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Post# 14579-3/1/2002-00:14 ||| Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: The Sudsy Challenge
MESSAGE: I do understand what you're saying Rich. Glad you enjoyed the video clips, they are so much fun to watch.
I think we need more video clips of washers in action, I'll have to work on that. And if you guys out there want to film your machines and send me a tape, I will be thrilled to digitzie the video and place it in our library.
Isn't the internet totally cool!
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Post# 14580-3/1/2002-00:35 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: The Sudsy Challenge
MESSAGE: I'd love to send you some videos - I just got a "Dazzle" that I can hook up to my Hi-8, but ... it might be a little boring - just the solid Neptune door, ya know :-)
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Post# 14581-3/2/2002-04:50 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Neptune not boring)
MESSAGE: The only downside of this type of washer is that you can't see what is happening in the drum. Nevertheless I have a weak spot for them. Overhere in Holland the American toploaders aren't sold, so people who need or want a toploader buy the H-axis type. Strangely enough in France this is the most popular type of washing machine, but you hardly see them in Italy.
There were also H-axis toploaders with a window in the lid, so you could monitor the amount of suds. The picture shows a washer dryer combo with such a window.
LINK: http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/foraloysius/vwp?.dir=/My+favourite+appliances&.src=ph&.dnm=Thomson+washerdryer+combo.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/bc/foraloysius/lst%3f%26.dir=/My%2bfavourite%2bappliances%26.src=ph%26.view=t
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Post# 14582-3/2/2002-05:24 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: ACHTUNG!!! HERR-MIELE!!!
MESSAGE: Hi Bubbles,
No, you have not made me uncomfortable, in fact personally I enjoy your posts and these spats. But I do agree with the person who said that if were are not carefull, these TL/FL threads will become too dominant and this site will become another THS. I know that I am as much in this as anyone else, so I just want to do my bit, by bowing out for now.
Glad you weren't pi**ed at me either.
What's toodles, we say toodle-pip or ta-raa for goodbye.
Toodle-pip for now.
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Post# 14583-3/2/2002-05:26 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: Who can identify the....
MESSAGE: Hi again Bubbles,
I'm back again. Sorry but I don't have a cluse what DW it is, I don't remember noticing it and I love that show. Do youhave any pics or links to it?
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Post# 14584-3/2/2002-05:42 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Hello foraloysius)
MESSAGE: Bubbles,
Is this still about washers? I guess you have some other issues with Europe as well.
This site is about vintage washers and I love many of them, both frontloaders and toploaders. I am not here to determine whether you should use a frontloader or a toploader, if you are happy with your toploader than please stick to it. This club is not about saving a few liters water, I just bought an old Miele that uses plenty and I did three loads in it this week.
I do find BOL toploaders really simplistic, there are still toploaders on the market that don't even have a temperature control, you set the temperatures by opening and closing the valves and some of them have only two water levels. A BOL Euro washer always has an automatic water level control and sometimes a small load button, besides that they always have temperatures of 30, 40, 60 and 95 degrees Celcius, most BOL infinite temperature controls. Besides that I guess those washes are as boring as a hot, a warm or a cold wash, if you find things boring about washing. Both systems have their advantages and disadvantages, but I am very content with using the European system.
As for features on European washers, in that time most German washers (AEG, Constructa, Bosch, Miele, Siemens, Bauknecht, Matura, Zanker) had automatic water level control (only the Fisher and Paykel toploader has that), variable washrythms and spinspeeds. Most of them had selfcleaning lintfilters in the seventies or eighties, except for Miele (they were always on the safe side for a long time). Besides that European washers had automatic softener dispensers that put the softener in the right rinse, unlike the toploaders that put the softener in after the first spin.
As for loading capacity, my mother bought a Bosch frontloader in 1966 that had a capacity of 5.5 kg. BTW, loading capacity was not determined by the amount of laundry people had, but by the European standard sizes for appliances, which is 85cm x 60cm x 60cm (max). Although my mother's Bosch was wider, most washers had this size and therefor the inner space was limited. Our closest neighbours had a Constructa with a capacity of 6 kg. Some of my aunts and a friend's mother also had such a machine. It was a Constructa 'kochautomat', a machine that really could boil the laundry at 100C. And those washers were used many more times than once a week!
I do admit that some Europeans are indeed eccentric, we all know the story about the Swiss farmer that comes down the mountain barefoot in spring to get his yearly bath, but hygiene standards in the environment where I come from were higher than you describe.
Now back to washers. I remember that overhere the Microchip was introduced. I think it was Bosch who was first. Like in the US the first microchip washers had problems. Europe might have been a little later, but nowadays I think there are more frontloaders with microchip technology than toploaders. Most US toploaders still have timers, but German frontloaders almost all have microchips. And the Italians are following except for the BOL brands. I love hearing a timer click though.
In the sixties the washer dryer combo was introduced here, they were available. I remember Matura and Bosch having combo's. The link leads to a few pictures of a Bosch washer/dryer combo from that decade. It looks exactly like my mother's Bosch that I mentioned before, only she didn't have a combo, but just a washer. I remember though that most people didn't like them because they took so long to do a full load and they didn't like the use of water for condensation.
Louis
LINK: http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/foraloysius/lst?&.dir=/Bosch+1960s+washer+dryer+combo&.src=ph&.view=t&.last=1
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Post# 14585-3/2/2002-05:49 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (G-force calculator?)
MESSAGE: The thing is G-forces ofcourse, not spinspeed. Toploaders have a wider drum and therefor their spin is a little more effective at the same speed than frontloaders.
BTW, I lost the link to the G-force calculator, does anyone still have it?
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Post# 14586-3/2/2002-05:52 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Perhaps you should check again )
MESSAGE: Do you mean that my non-spinning Miele H-axis toploader doesn't clean? And I was so impressed by how it performed for such an old washer!
Doesn't the Neptune hold a little more laundry than a Miele?
Louis
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Post# 14587-3/2/2002-06:07 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Switched Reluctance Motors)
MESSAGE: Hi Chris, speeding up the Philips was really wonderful. In a blonde moment I got rid of it because the separate temperature control was broken and it was a very expensive electronic part. I should have had it repaired and saved it for my collection to be. Later, during the short period when it was Philips Whirlpool, a 1100rpm toploader was introduced, I see them now and then, but I don't like the appearance as much as the one I had. Because I can't get enough of looking at it's pictures, here's the link again.
LINK: http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/foraloysius/vwp?.dir=/My+favourite+appliances&.dnm=Philips+washer+brochure.JPG&.src=ph&.view=t&.hires=t
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Post# 14588-3/2/2002-06:09 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: RE: HERE IT IS!!!
MESSAGE: Thank you so much for putting this up. I will take time for it later and indulge into it ;-)
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Post# 14589-3/2/2002-06:43 ||| gizmo (Great Ocean Road, Victoria, Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Philips TL tumble washers)
MESSAGE: Hi Louis.
That is very similar to mine. I think mine is newer than that. The first one I had had a smoky perspex control panel - the control markings were behind the smoky/clear perspex. The control panel is on a 45 degree angle. It was a very smart looking little washer. It had an enamelled steel outer drum, inner drum Stainless steel.
The second one I got has the control panel in brown plastic with the control markings painted on - it looks cheaper than the earlier one. It has a horizontal control panel. It has a plastic outer tub. I think it spins faster but I'm not sure. I will check. I only still have the later one. I also have a spare motor.
I don't speak Dutch but I love reading that text anyway. I go weak at the knees for a Dutch accent. An old friend of mine was an Aussie girl with an Aussie father and a Dutch mother. She used to tell me the only Dutch she could say was "hog et het heerme" or something like that. She used to ham up the accent something terrrible. SBS tv in Aus is a TV station that has mainly foreign language programs. They have shown the Flodders series of movies which I thought were a riot.
Best wishes.
Chris.
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Post# 14590-3/2/2002-06:45 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Perhaps you should check again )
MESSAGE: And using chlorine bleach.
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Post# 14591-3/2/2002-06:57 ||| gizmo (Great Ocean Road, Victoria, Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Thanks mate!)
MESSAGE: Dear Mr-Bubbles
I have waved the big stick, now let me extend the olive branch. It was a bit pathetic of me to pick you up on that.
I apologize for that.
I have had a bad week. My partner is running as a Greens candidate in the local government election. We have been getting some nasty crap from people I had thought were friends despite our different views on some issues. Yesterday we went to our the garage on the block where we are building a new house. The garage had been broken into and we have had a few thousand dollars worth of tools, generator and a firefighting pump stolen. It is not insured as we don't yet live there. I was looking forward to catching up with washing machine friends in the evening, your posts including jibes about Greenies really made my day, I hope you can see that.
Best Wishes
Chris.
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Post# 14592-3/2/2002-07:01 ||| gizmo (Great Ocean Road, Victoria, Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Perhaps you should check again )
MESSAGE: Oh no, don't say that.
I have just bought my first bottle of Chlorine bleach to get my white work shirts really white.
I have also started separating my whites from my coloured clothes for the first time. Yes, I am seeing a difference.
Inspired by all you washing machine experts.
Chris.
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Post# 14593-3/2/2002-07:04 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Philips TL tumble washers)
MESSAGE: Hi again Chris,
The Philips washers you are describing indeed sound newer to me. As far as I know the ones with the 1100rpm spinspeed all had white control panels with the controls under a lid and little windows that showed how the controls were set. If you have a different model I would love to see a picture of it!!
I can't make anything out of your dutch sentence. I find those accents really horrible. I believe some people at the convention last year were a little disappointed that I didn't have more of an accent LOL. The Flodder movies are hilarious, I like the first one best.
Regards,
Louis
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Post# 14594-3/2/2002-07:09 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (whiter whites)
MESSAGE: Oh my, a greenie with chlorine bleach LOL!! If you want to get your whites white, but not damaged, use oxygen bleach. It's much more friendly for your clothes but takes longer too work. I have done some really wonderful things with bleaching that way. If you have items that need to be made white again, just put some oxygen bleach or detergent containing it in a bucket, put some really hot water on it (over 60C or 140F) to really boost it up. You can add warm water later to get the temperature down. Put the item in the bucket at let it soak for 1-8 hours.
Louis
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Post# 14595-3/2/2002-07:23 ||| gizmo (Great Ocean Road, Victoria, Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (whiter whites)
MESSAGE: Thanks for the advice.
Yes, it was a struggle to buy chloring bleach!!!:)
I have to keep it hidden in the laundry cupboard in case any of my greenie mates find it. Maybe I should make up a fake label with some herbal ingredients...I promise not to buy any more, I'll get some oxygen bleach instead.
I'm off to my padded cell for a good night's sleep.
Take care.
Chris.
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Post# 14596-3/2/2002-09:32 ||| Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: The Sudsy Challenge
MESSAGE: The Dazzle Video Transfer system is a great tool Rich! I used to use that for all of the cyber video I did, but I recently got a new internal video card called that does both TV and Video capture all in one.
How about some filter-flo videos to add your GE washer in the Cyber Museum? They would be a wonderful addition sometime.
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Post# 14597-3/2/2002-10:14 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: The Staber Washer
MESSAGE: I am surprised that with so many h-axis fans, no one has actually mentioned anything about the Staber washer. I think it is the first top-loading h-axis machine built in the US which, on the outside, looks like a traditional top-loader, has similar dimensions and appears to offer the same types of cycles, spin speeds and cycle times. It is supposed to have 18 pounds load capacity and use between 12 and 16 gallons per cycle depending on whether one does a full or half-load wash. What I find interesting about this machine most of all, is the hexagonal stainless steel washtub and stainless steel outer tub.
Does anyone here have any experience with this washer? It looks quite straight forward and solid. I gather that this washer is referred to as the 'System 2000', because of the timing of its launch on the American market?
For anyone who hasn't heard of this product and may be curious about it, I have attached the link to its website below.
LINK: http://www.staber.com/
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Post# 14598-3/2/2002-10:56 ||| jasonl (New Orleans, LA)
SUBJECT: RE: The Sudsy Challenge
MESSAGE: Well, how about some footage of a new Frigemore? Or does the machine have to be vintage? Next wash, I'll start the camera rolling and you'll get a whole cycle, blue towels and all. It does spin at 1050rpm.
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Post# 14599-3/2/2002-11:01 ||| jasonl (New Orleans, LA)
SUBJECT: RE: The Sudsy Challenge
MESSAGE: EXCELLENT!!!!!!!
First the ABC, now the WCI-58. Oh you are a bad boy, oversudsing that washer like that. I remember when I used to oversuds my mom's Kenmore the rinse cycle looked like a Normal suds wash and the 2nd rinse still had suds. 1140rpm and overflow makes the difference.
Are you taking requests? How about some videos of you 57 Lady K?
Thanks again!
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Post# 14600-3/2/2002-11:21 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: The Sudsy Challenge
MESSAGE: Yes, thanks Robert, the Filter Flo is at the top of my list for video-to-computer transfer. Unfortunately I didn't take any video when I did the photo shoot in the garden last fall. We're having lovely warm dry weather right now, so maybe I could trop the old girl out ot the courtyard once more this weekend for a session in the sun. I just have to figure out which cam corder battery, if any, will still hold a charge! :-)
I could take some shots of the suds level in the Neptune, but I'm a bit leery of oversudsing it. It sits in between my kitchen and family room. Although it's on a vinyl floor, I still don't like to make it leak sudsy water out through its crevices. One of these days I'm going to fashion a window door for it, though, and maybe even hot wire the light switch.
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Post# 14601-3/2/2002-11:22 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: The Sudsy Challenge
MESSAGE: I'd like to see a few oversudsing Bendixes. It would bring back so many childhood memories!
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Post# 14602-3/2/2002-11:35 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (G'day Gizmo)
MESSAGE: Hi mate,
Oxygen bleach, that is stuff like Nappisan isn't it? If so, don't use it in your machines, it supposedly reacts with stainless steel (particularly if you do an overnight soak). You should use a plastic bowl or bucket. It also wouldn't be any good in your ASKO, because your clothes need to be fully immersed in the solution and the tumble action may oversuds the machine.
If you want my advice, for what its worth, use a phosphate detergent in your front loader and choose the hottest program that your clothes can stand (preferably the 95 degree cycle, which your ASKO should have).
Chlorine bleach is marvellous for stain removal, disinfecting and whitening, but it makes fabrics brittle over time if you put too much in and use it frequently. For a full 6 kilo load in my T/L Kleenmaid, I pour a measured cup (250 ml), when I am ready to start the cycle. Naturally I use the bleach dispenser, don't add bleach directly onto your clothes (you probably already knew that). I normally begin by adding my regular enzyme (phosphate free) detergent to the wash, and running a hot-fill. I let the machine agitate for a couple of minutes and then turn it off for a 1 or 2 hour soak. Your F&P machine, if its a recent model, should have a really good soak cycle with intermittent agitation. Then I simply add the bleach and allow the machine to complete the cycle ( I double the rinses though, to get rid of the chlorine odor). Check with the manufacturer's instructions regarding the mixing of chlorine bleach with your detergent, in some cases this can actually damage clothes.
If you don't really want to use bleach, try those blueing agents from your local supermarket. They put a blue hue into your whites to make 'em look whiter. You usually add those during the final rinse and I don't know how well they'd work in a front-loader. I have only used them once or twice, but from memory I think they work. Direct sunlight is the chemical-free method for brightening and bleaching your whites (particularly linen), although the result may not be immediately apparent. You just need a clean surface over which you can lay them out to catch the sun.
Just make sure that you sort your clothes according to the highest temp. they can be washed at. Linen and cottons you can usually bring to the boil, but with mixed (synthetic/organic fibre) fabrics, even if it says hot washable, it is best not to go beyond 60 degrees. Such whites can actually become yellow if you wash them too hot.
See how it goes.
Sorry to hear about the break-in, I hope you are insured against your losses.
BTW, I acept your olive branch most graciously and humbly.
Bubbles
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Post# 14603-3/2/2002-11:43 ||| golittlesport (California)
SUBJECT: RE: The Sudsy Challenge
MESSAGE: Hi Robert...great clips of the 58 Unimatic! Since I have both a video cam and a front loader with a window, I'll join the challenge and do the same test in my Kenmore. It does not have an "suds-sensor" so we'll see if the extra detergent strangles it. I have a feeling which machine is going to come out ahead when it comes to dealing with removing suds, but it will be fun to do this. ;-)
What kind of detergent should I use? Regular or low-suds? I was thinking of putting six Surf tablets in with a load of towels and see what happens.
Rich
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Post# 14604-3/2/2002-11:52 ||| jgp57 (dearborn michigan)
SUBJECT: laugh
MESSAGE: thank you to all the people who make me laugh. this is like the only place in the world where i can always find a dose of humor. i wonder what that says about me? jgp57
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Post# 14605-3/2/2002-11:53 ||| washrfreak (Dallas)
SUBJECT: RE: HERE IT IS!!! (Thanks Arrrooohhh)
MESSAGE: Wow! Do I read this correctly - a Frigidaire top-loader fom the early 70s with an internal heater? That sounds terrific (in spite of almost an hour and a half to heat the water). By the way -- what does "water heating not as fully automatic as other machines tested" mean?
It also lists a pilot light under controls. Does this have the same meaning as in America - a continuously buring small gas jet used to light a gas burner? Or does this mean something like an "on" indicator light?
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Post# 14606-3/2/2002-12:08 ||| washrfreak (Dallas)
SUBJECT: RE: HERE IT IS!!!
MESSAGE: Pardon my ignorance - but I am misreading this or do all top loaders in Australia have internal heaters? I've never seen a top loader with one before.
The GE and Westinghouse both took over 2 hours to heat the water - but it's still a cool thing.
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Post# 14607-3/2/2002-12:20 ||| scott55405 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: laugh
MESSAGE: Well, that's great! If you're laughing, that means you're having fun, and that is, after all, why we are here!
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Post# 14608-3/2/2002-12:23 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: RE: Who can identify the....
MESSAGE: I know we talked about this dishwasher a long time ago on the club, so I had to email a friend and refresh my memory again! (My mind is a sieve!)
That was a D&M built dishwasher with a window installed for demonstration in stores. D&M built top loading dishwashers for Frigidaire, Robert (Unimatic1140) has one in his collection, here's a pic of his. There are also more pics of it running in the convention photo links.
LINK: http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/unimatic1140/vwp?.dir=/Frigidaire&.src=ph&.dnm=1959+Frig+Portable+Dishwasher.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/bc/unimatic1140/lst%3f%26.dir=/Frigidaire%26.src=ph%26.view=t
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Post# 14609-3/2/2002-12:24 ||| washrfreak (Dallas)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Perhaps you should check again )
MESSAGE: I'm sure you are correct - at least when drying in a dryer. The heat and tumble of the dryer should remove any wrinkles from the washer. I think the idea was more about line drying (though not sure if it's really much benefit there either). At least one washer manual I had described the PP cycle as reducing wrinkling WHEN LINE DRYING the load.
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Post# 14610-3/2/2002-12:29 ||| washrfreak (Dallas)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Perhaps you should check again )
MESSAGE: Another option is to use take water from each rinse and do a PH test (an aquarium PH test kit should do). This is basically the same thing that Asko uses in their displays. In theory, we could each test our own machines and compare results allowing us to test more machines rinsing effectiveness. The trick would be to get the PH in the wash to a standardized level and ensure we used similarly full loads.
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Post# 14611-3/2/2002-12:37 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: RE: HERE IT IS!!! (Not gas pilot...)
MESSAGE: The pilot light would have been a small light on the control panel to indicate the machine was running. Consumer reports thought these were a silly notion. With most washers, and especially a Frigidaire rollermatic, if you were close enough to the machine to see the light, you could hear it running.
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Post# 14612-3/2/2002-12:51 ||| washrfreak (Dallas)
SUBJECT: RE: ACHTUNG!!! HERR-MIELE!!!
MESSAGE: Bubbles,
As an observer of this discussion I would have to say that to me it felt rather hostile. Some of your posts appeared to go beyond a difference of opinion (not that yours were the only ones). Perhaps that was not your intent. I wonder if some if the issue may be related to differences in language and culture. For the last several years I have been part of a "virtual" work team based in UK/US/Australia. Early on there were several communication problems. One issue in particular the Americans felt personally attacked sometimes in discussions with team members from Australia. It took a while to realize that it wasn't indended but something in the use of language between the 2 (or 3) countries caused this misunderstanding. Once everyone was aware of the issue it disappeared.
Not sure if that is applicable here, just something to think about.
BTW - I love a good difference of opinion. As long as they are about the issue and not each other they can be fun. Sometimes people even convince me to change my opinion (but not that often :)
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Post# 14613-3/2/2002-12:56 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (G'day Gizmo)
MESSAGE: I never heard that oxygen bleach would react with stainless steel, it is used in every regular detergent here, I guess washing machines with stainless steel drums would look very bad after a few years. The downside of oxygen bleach is that it takes much longer to get the maximum result, so soaking in a bucket is probably the best.
People who are on eco systems (and I believe Chris is) should be careful with phosphate detergent. If they use too much it can cause in having too much algae in the system.
Detergent with enzymes can be used best in warm washes (around 105F), on higher temperatures the enzymes don't work anymore.
Louis
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Post# 14614-3/2/2002-12:58 ||| foraloysius (Groningen, The Netherlands)
SUBJECT: RE: laugh
MESSAGE: :-)
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Post# 14615-3/2/2002-13:22 ||| washrfreak (Dallas)
SUBJECT: RE: HERE IT IS!!! (Not gas pilot...)
MESSAGE: Well, if you were hearing-impaired in a dark room....
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Post# 14616-3/2/2002-13:49 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: RE: HERE IT IS!!! (Not gas pilot...)
MESSAGE: Maybe, but the vibration of the machine on the floor would tip you off before you got near it too! ;-)
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Post# 14617-3/2/2002-13:49 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (CL & O2)
MESSAGE: Yep, I reckon Louis is right and Chlorine will be very harsh on fabric. I also have heard that it can cause a yellowish tinge to whites. Oxygen bleach is much kinder, though needs longer contact or very hot water.
Oxygen is fine on stainless steel, nearly all euro machines have ss drums, some have ss tubs too, and many (most) powders contain oxygen bleach. We have been doing it like this in europe for years and our drums don't corrode.
Glad you are separating whites from colours, you mean tha you did not do that before tsk tsk. I was brought up believing that to be a crime beyond comprehension, don't worry, I won't tell Mum.
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Post# 14618-3/2/2002-13:59 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Enzyme Temps)
MESSAGE: Hi Louis
Last time I called Miele, I asked about the best temps for enzyme and they told me that different ones work best at different temps, also that most modern bio-detergents contain 3 enzymes -
30C 85F amalyase - starch
40-50C 105-120F lipase - fats / oils
50-60C 120-140F protease - proteins.
above 60C - all denatured
I am dubious that there would be much enzyme activity at 60C (140F), so would stick with 40 or 50, 105-120 myself whenI need enzyme based detergents. Usually, I manage with non-bio, but I do use 60C for many washes.
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Post# 14619-3/2/2002-14:03 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (G'day Gizmo)
MESSAGE: Hi Bubbles,
You may have a point about Napisan, as it may contain other chemicals that corrode ss, or may not contain teh right inhibitors. Euro powders contain oxygen bleach, sodium percarbonate or sodium perborate, but they contain corrosion inhibitors too. I add pure sodioum percarbonate (Ecover) bleach to my whites, but the ecover powder that I use with it also as the inhibitor in.
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Post# 14620-3/2/2002-14:33 ||| washrfreak (Dallas)
SUBJECT: RE: HERE IT IS!!! (Not gas pilot...)
MESSAGE: perhaps you also had a neurological problem that resulted in a loss of sensitivity to vibration.
A somewhat specialized market, but, it could happen.
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Post# 14621-3/2/2002-17:28 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (G'day Gizmo)
MESSAGE: Louis,
I also have never heard of oxygen bleach attacking stainless steel. Metallurgically speaking, stainless steel's Achilles' heel is its vulnerability to the element chlorine. It takes a special type of stainless alloy to stand up to the chlorine present in seawater also in the living body; in medical appliations titanium is often preferred due to its non-reactivity.
What do you mean by "eco system"? I reckon that a normal septic system should be ok with phosphates; there is no light in a septic tank and hence no chance for algae to grow. The bacteria should be happy with it, which is what is wanted. The phosphates will help the bacteria thrive because it will help prevent the pH in the septic system from getting too acid (bacteria produce acid and grow better in basic conditions). Also, the amount of phosphate contributed by laundry to a septic system is minor compared to that in human waste. Also, phosphates do not migrate well in soils, so there should not be a problem with run-off from the drain field. Certainly phosphates are a lot less deleterious to a septic system than chlorine or a host of other cleaning substitutes.
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Post# 14622-3/2/2002-17:37 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (CL & O2)
MESSAGE: Forgive me laundrophiles for I have sinned, and I continue to sin on an almost weekly basis.
I routinely wash light colored perm press dress shirts (white with black, gray, blue, or brown stripes or checks, for example) with my other whites. I use 130F water and of course Sears HE with colorsafe bleach alternative (oxygen) and of course 33% STPP. The whites come out sparkling clean and the shirts keep their press very nicely. I'm able to monitor my dryer temperature, and in the perm press dry cycle the drum temp gets up to 150F. So I'm not worried about the 130F hot wash harming the perm press dress shirts in any way.
Of course dark colors go in a separate load. I suspect, but have no rigourous proof, that STPP helps prevent color dye transfer. I've recently acquired a large number of black cotton crew socks (slighlty more fashionable than my previous supply of white crew socks) and black jeans. I don't want to be putting my light colored dress shirts in with those.
I mix these things because I don't generate enough laundry to fill the Neptune with small white items, and I don't have enought light colored dress shirts to launder separately on a weekly basis. The sheets, mattress pad, and blue towels get washed separately, of course. At first I was worried that I'd get limp shirts, but that doesn't seem to be a problem.
Is there some laundry equivalent of Hail Mary that I need to recite to atone for my washday sin of mixing whites with lights?
Cheers.
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Post# 14623-3/2/2002-17:41 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Enzyme Temps)
MESSAGE: Interesting!
For what it's worth, human saliva contains amylase. In my uncouth youth, I have successfully removed tomato sauce stains from my shirt fronts by ... chewing on the spot. Discreetely, of course. Now that I have phosphates and a Neptune, I no longer feel the need to nibble on my clothing. ;-)
Sears HE claims it has dual enzymes. I'm guessing these are protease and lipase, but it might be protease and amylase. I'd lean in favor of the lipase, however, since carbs are so water soluble but oils of course are not.
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Post# 14624-3/2/2002-17:44 ||| Sudsmaster (San Leandro, CA)
SUBJECT: RE: HERE IT IS!!! (Not gas pilot...)
MESSAGE: Perhaps the indicator light is handy during those brief pauses in the washer operation, between the wash and rinse, for example.
On another slightly related note, the power switch I put in for the outlet for my Neptunes to save 10 watts in between wash loads, is too close to the light switch for the laundry closet. Periodically I find I switch off the power to the washer while it's in operation, instead of the light. Fortunately the Neptune has enough smarts and after flashing an error message, it resumes right where it was before it was so rudely interrupted.
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Post# 14625-3/2/2002-18:04 ||| DADoES (El Campo, TX)
SUBJECT: RE: The Staber Washer
MESSAGE: The Staber has been discussed to a degree. Jetcone has one.
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Post# 14626-3/2/2002-18:24 ||| DADoES (El Campo, TX)
SUBJECT: RE: The Sudsy Challenge
MESSAGE: I haven't seen the "Sudsy Challenge" videos yet . . . will fetch then on the office LAN . . . should be a blast. 8-)
I bought a small box (12 tablets) of Wisk tablets a few days ago. I'm not particularly impressed. I figured one tablet should be sufficient for a load at the lowest water level, but the water doesn't even feel "slippery," nor does it with two tablets for a medium or medium/high load. I just did a fairly large load of towels/socks/sheets, which the F&P handled on the medium/high water level, and used three tablets, and got NO suds, although the water was slippery in this case. I'd probably have to use the whole box to get enough suds for a valid suds/rinse test.
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Post# 14627-3/2/2002-18:26 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Enzyme Temps)
MESSAGE: Hi Suds,
Your youth could have been much more uncouth.
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Post# 14628-3/2/2002-18:32 ||| DADoES (El Campo, TX)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Perhaps you should check again )
MESSAGE: That's what the wise and thrifty Whirlpool dealer I worked with during high school said -- use the PP cycle if line-drying, otherwise the cool-down is a waste of water.
(But I still use my PP cycle sometimes.)
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Post# 14629-3/2/2002-19:00 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (CL & O2)
MESSAGE: Ahh Suds, but sinning is such fun. If you really want to atone I guess you ould read alound the entire Tide.com web site.
I have been looking for the magic number whereby polyester softens had wrinles set in, I know it is above 50C 122F and below 60C 140F. 50C is the most commonly recomended temp for perm press polycotton in the UK. I once ruined some by washing at 60C by mistake, those crinkles will not budge even on ironing.
My physics is not great, but I am guessing that with a dryer air temp of 150F (65C), the clothes are at a lower temp due to latent heat of vapourisation. Don't dryers reduce their temps as the load drys to as to protect from overheating and heat-set wrinkles?
PS, I hope you did not wear your previous white socks with grey leather shoes.
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Post# 14630-3/2/2002-19:07 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Perhaps you should check again )
MESSAGE: HI Scott,
I find the idea of a slow spin for PP odd, when often the machine in question, if a modern TL, only has a fast spin of 700, though the larger tub piulling more Gs is a factor too.
My Miele reduces the spin to a short 900 spin for PP, though I usually reset to a long 1100 spin. I think the cooldown probably is important if using hot 50C 120F water, as at these temps the polester is soft and will hold creases as it cools in the spin before the rinse.
Is your 1960 Frigidaire a 1140 spin model?
Is
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Post# 14631-3/2/2002-19:17 ||| herr-miele (UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Perhaps you should check again )
MESSAGE: Hi Uni,
I think that you are right about remianing moisture content RMC between fast and slow spins.
Saddo that I am, I did chart several loads, nearly all high speed, but I found one that is relevant. These loads were weighed on reasonably accurate postal scales.
A load of polyester fleece tops washed in delicate cycle with a short 600 spin weighed 2915g, after one long 1100 spin - 2260g and after a second long 1100 spin 2190g. After drying the load was 1755g. I make the RMCS, 66%, 29% and 25%.
I am willing to repeat this experiment with cotton, say towels, when I next wash towels on Wednesday, if I remember, and will post again.
I have downloaded your challenge videos and am looking forward to watching them.
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Post# 14632-3/2/2002-19:35 ||| kirk280980 (Lincoln UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Neptune not boring)
MESSAGE: I suppose, in a way, the H-axis top loaders are the European equivalent to the Neptune. Nothing much to see, they just work away in the background and get the job done.
The idea of a window lid on a H-axis TL is a good one. I bet there was a lot of splashing at the beginning of the spin cycles!
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Post# 14633-3/2/2002-19:40 ||| scott55405 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: The Sudsy Challenge
MESSAGE: Glenn, how were the results with what you washed in these tablets? Do you have hard water? I have been using them for about a year now and have actually been quite pleased with them. I get good cleaning results and one tablet does it nicely in a standard capacity washer. I also tried Surf tablets down at Rich's and really liked those too. One tablet works just great for a load in there. I have soft water and I'm sure Rich does too.
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Post# 14634-3/2/2002-19:41 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: RE: The Staber Washer (No Service)
MESSAGE: One of the biggest drawbacks to these machines is that Staber has no service network, the customer/owner must perform service work themselves or find someone handy to do it for them. I think the machine had some "normal" bugs to work out when first intro'ed, don't know what their work has been like lately.
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Post# 14635-3/2/2002-19:45 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: RE: The Sudsy Challenge
MESSAGE: Wisk is HE compatible, so there won't be any suds - even with the whole box you might get some, but if you want to do a sudsy challenge, just grab some Tide!
Don't know why you weren't getting a slippery feel to the water with two tabs, usually one in the standard capacity machines is sufficient for me (with STPP added for softening of water) but I rarely get more than a few bubbles on the top of the water. What is your water like?
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Post# 14636-3/2/2002-19:47 ||| scott55405 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Perhaps you should check again )
MESSAGE: Herr Miele, my Frigdaire is a Multimatic, rather than Unimatic, so it spins at 850 RPM, and its slow spin speed is 330 RPM. Even at 850 RPM, there is an incredible difference in extraction qualiy from the typical American toploader with its 500-600 or so RPMs. I've had fine results with all fabrics using the fast spin, I have only a few nicer sweaters I slow spin (or remove a little early) and then dry flat on racks. I believe Robert washes all types of fabrics with good results in his 1140 Unimatics, which are a single speed machine and always spin at 1140.
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Post# 14637-3/2/2002-19:49 ||| scott55405 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: The Sudsy Challenge
MESSAGE: I also use Calgon in the water and have very little if any suds. That's what makes them nice to use in the Frigmore machines too.
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Post# 14638-3/2/2002-19:51 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Neptune not boring)
MESSAGE: A window lid on a top-loading horizontal doesn't sound too exciting. All you'll see is a revolving drum with perforations zooming past. It would probably just make me dizzy and puke.
You don't get to observe the actual wash action, which is right there if you have a window on your front loader. This is also what you get to see if you override the safety cut-out under the lid of a conventional t/l. There is nothing more soothing than watching the roll-over action of a stylish SQ straight vane agitator.
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Post# 14639-3/2/2002-20:09 ||| kirk280980 (Lincoln UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (CL & O2)
MESSAGE: Chlorine bleach - can't stand the stuff, and won't have it in my house. The smell makes me feel sick to the pit of my stomach.
Oxygen bleach, however, is a different matter. I'm a huge fan of the stuff when it comes to laundry, and have been really pleased with the results. It's especially useful for whites which can only withstand a warm wash. Things like white socks and Fred Perry polo shirts go in on a 40*C wash with detergent and some Ace oxygen bleach, and come out spotless first time. I also find it's good for reviving tired colours.
Only one thing, if you spill Ace on your hand, your skin turns white almost instantly. Upon reading the label, I see it's active ingredient is hydrogen peroxide, which explains the rapid whitening effect. I suppose adding peroxide bought from the chemist would have the same effect on your laundry.
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Post# 14640-3/2/2002-20:12 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (G'day Gizmo)
MESSAGE: The stuff 'Nappisan'that I mentioned in my other post is a diaper soaking agent that is also safe to use on colored clothes. Its active ingredient is sodium percarbonate - is that what oxygen bleach is? On the container the manufacturer states that clothing items with metal buttons, zippers and other metal items should not be in contact with the solution for more than an hour at a time. I assume that also means the stainless steel (metal) interior of my machine. The reaction is described as either rusting or discoloration. I don't think I want to try it out to see whether or not it does cause a reaction with my machine's tub.
Anyway, I have given Gizmo lots of other handy tips (post 14602), on how to get his whites nice and bright, oxygen bleach is but one way.
For what its worth, I am an Amway man and have been for the last 25 years. I am sure some of you will snigger now and say "well, that figures". But I don't care and I am proud of the deteregent that I use - so there :-(.
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Post# 14641-3/2/2002-20:17 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Enzyme Temps)
MESSAGE: So what did you do when sucking on thoses stains provded ineffective? Did you rip them out with your teeth. Was it only red sauce stains that you sucked on or did you suck on white sauce too?
I had to ask this Sudsie its your own fault.
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Post# 14642-3/2/2002-20:29 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: HERE IT IS!!! (Thanks Arrrooohhh)
MESSAGE: Yes they did Ed,
This feature predates effective cold water detergents and was probably introduced for thoses consumers who didn't have a large enough hot water systems able to feed a full load. Maybe also because a lot of Europeans came here right after the war (oops, am I allowed to mention it?). Manufacturers may have wanted to include a feature that would appeal to them, I am only guessing though.
I haven't come accross any top-loaders with heaters since the 1980's.
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Post# 14643-3/2/2002-20:39 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: Who can identify the....
MESSAGE: Thanks Gansky1,
But the machine in unimatic's photo album looks different. The one in the show had a raised rear-mounted control panel like that portable dishwasher in the 'Westinghouse Opportunity Days' advertisement. It also seemed to be broader. Anyway, thanks for your suggestion, it is very much appreciated. This question of mine may have to remain a mystery for all times.
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Post# 14644-3/2/2002-20:40 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: Who can identify the....
MESSAGE: I also have a feeling that the top basket was circular and not square.
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Post# 14645-3/2/2002-20:46 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: HERE IT IS!!! (Not gas pilot...)
MESSAGE: I reckon these on/of indicator (pilot)lights were probably there for aesthetic reasons. Then again, they may have wanted to cater to deaf people (I am an optimist), who couldn't hear the machine's operating noise and had to rely on visual clues instead.
I always liked stuff like that to look at. Little colored lights are so pretty.
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Post# 14646-3/2/2002-20:49 ||| kirk280980 (Lincoln UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (CL & O2)
MESSAGE: Perhaps I've never qualified as a priest (as if!!!), but I forgive you for your sins.
But only because I'm guilty of doing exactly the same thing :o)
Seriously, though, I don't see where the problem is. Colourfast pastels often go in with my whites. The dyes aren't dark, and they don't run, so therefore they're not going to affect my whites. You soon pick up a sense of which items in your wardrobe are safe to wash together, and it becomes almost intuitive.
When it comes to sorting, I usually separate everything as follows:
Whites and/or pastels
Bright colours
Dark colours (heavy wash)
Dark colours (creasables & "best stuff")
Towels
Denims
Hand-washables
Works pretty well for me, and everything seems to get the best care that way. It's not very often my clothes wear poorly, as I'm quite careful about how everything gets washed. The only time things don't come out too well is if I make an error of judgement when it comes down to what can and can't go in the dryer. Unfortunately, more and more clothes now say not to tumble dry on the care label, and one has to decide whether they really mean that, or if the manufacturer is being over-cautious. Usually the latter, but sometimes I do get caught out :o(
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Post# 14647-3/2/2002-21:00 ||| kirk280980 (Lincoln UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Enzyme Temps)
MESSAGE: Reminds me of an experiment I did in chemistry while I was at school. We filled visking tubing (a semi-permeable membrane, which looks like an, erm... "prophylactic") with a starch solution, then added an amylase solution to mimic the action of saliva.
The visking tubing was then hung in a beaker of water, which was maintained at around 45*C, and as the starch was broken down into glucose (I think?), the smaller molecules passed through the tubing and into the water. Testing the water in the beaker with Benedict's solution confirmed that the starch had broken down completely. This was when I was 14, but I still remember it, as it was so interesting.
We also did the "egg test"; hard-boil an egg, take the shell off, and sit it in a glass jar. Fill jar with a solution of warm water and laundry detergent, and the egg disappears after a few days. Shows how efficient the enzymes really are.
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Post# 14648-3/2/2002-21:16 ||| kirk280980 (Lincoln UK)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Neptune not boring)
MESSAGE: I rather enjoy watching a top loader go through its paces, too. It's just a pity that the manufacturers often insist on making the lid switch cut out on the wash as well as the spin. The current Whirlpool TLs now do this, whereas they used to only stop if the lid was opened during the spin. Luckily, the lid switch is easy to fool by jamming something in it. And I suppose it could be rewired to bypass it altogether. That's what I'll do if I ever have the space for one. I've already opened the floor model at work to see how it's done ;o)
The Maytag Atlantis is impossible to watch, unless you pop the top panel open. Even jamming or rewiring the switch won't do it - there's a protector fuse to stop you doing just that! Very nice machine, but I couldn't see myself opening the cabinet every time I wanted to watch what was going on.
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Post# 14649-3/2/2002-21:33 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: ACHTUNG!!! HERR-MIELE!!! (Hi Ed)
MESSAGE: Can I call you Ed? Too late, already did anyway.
You've got a very interesting point here. I woud say though, that misinterpretations on message forums like this one are very likely, because the visual clues, that make up our normal person to person communications, are missing. So, if one is a little more colorful with their written expressions, it can easily convey aggression etc., where only lighthearted banter is intended. Remember too, that we all enter this forum with our personal values, which makes us judge what others do without often really understanding their intent. You know that a face can tell a thousand stories just on its own, so in its absence a lot of information is lost.
You are also right about cultural differences in communication etiquette among English speaking societies. To use a couple of generalized perceptions, Americans are often perceived as being either too boisterous, opinionated and loud know-it-alls(especially your bloody news programs on cable, except ABC), or really anal ("don't touch me or I am gonna (shoot)sue your butt off!"), rarely inbetween. The English are generally perceived as whingeing whiners, with something larger than a cork up their hinies, who could use more frequent full-body showers, especially when they live in warm places like Oz. I don't know how Australians are perceived, maybe you can help with that one. It is always harder to see yourself through other's eyes. But these perceptions, no matter how incorrect, are so commonly held, that our subconscious works on these asumptions whether we want to admit to this or not.
In a virtual work team there would also be limited visual contact eliminating the all-important visual clues that people get from each other. Also, you have to remember that you are describing professional communications, which I would expect, place the participants under greater competitive pressure.
Aussies are generally straight shooters, who say things very economically. With overly loquatious Americans and chatty poms, this can be very unsettling and be interpreted as blatant hostility or dislike. I also find that Australians are not as verbally accomplished as the English or Americans. Eloquence is not our national strong point (I am sure I'll get shot down for this, but that is my honest opinion). All one needs to do is watch and listen to those real-life shows that are all the rage right now and compare between the different nationalities.
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Post# 14650-3/2/2002-21:56 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Neptune not boring)
MESSAGE: Hi Kirk,
Yeah, I suppose even if you managed to get a Neptune to run with the door open, you would have to cover the opening with perspex or something similar. Otherwise the washig experience will actively incorporate the observer. It sounds all too complicated to do anyway, that I think its probably just easier to down-load Maytag's animated demo gifts, showing the baffles at work. Maybe soon Maytag will incorporate a small window, although looking at the door design, - its purpose is to keep clothes where all the wash action is. In order not to remove the downward slope of the door's inside and to keep clothes sliding back into the drum, the window opening on the inside of the door would run somewhat perpendicular to the opening on the outside. The view, as I imagine it, would really be of the upper part of the wash chamber. One probably wouldn't get to see much action that way anyway. The only way Maytag could achieve a clearer view, would be to adopt the old Westy cabinet style, where the top part of the machine containing the door, is placed at the same angle as the drum.
I just hope that Maytag retains the tilt-drum design purely for the fact that it is different to all other fronties currently on the market. It does look so much easier to load and bigger than other h-axis machines.
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Post# 14651-3/2/2002-23:25 ||| washrfreak (Dallas)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (CL & O2)
MESSAGE: I would think typical 3% hydrogen peroxide would be too weak to have any effect once diluted in the wash water. Wonder what the strength of the Ace is.
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Post# 14652-3/2/2002-23:33 ||| washrfreak (Dallas)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Enzyme Temps)
MESSAGE: Actually, I had heard about this trick years ago. Enzymes in saliva will break down food stains - hadn't heard the specific enzyme, but will take Suds word for it. In any case, I've done it too and it does work. And not just on red sauce stains.
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Post# 14653-3/2/2002-23:37 ||| washrfreak (Dallas)
SUBJECT: RE: HERE IT IS!!! (One hot machine)
MESSAGE: I want one!
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Post# 14654-3/2/2002-23:38 ||| washrfreak (Dallas)
SUBJECT: RE: Who can identify the....
MESSAGE: I remember that this was disussed here sometime back. I think the conclusion was it as a Frigidaire.
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Post# 14655-3/2/2002-00:24 ||| washrfreak (Dallas)
SUBJECT: RE: ACHTUNG!!! HERR-MIELE!!! (Hi Ed)
MESSAGE: Sure,call me Ed.
I agree with you about visual clues, but interestingly, for us, we do get together several time each year, and sometimes have people in other areas for extended periods. When things came to a head (and got worked out) we were actually together in the UK.
I think your perceptions are correct (well, correct that the perceptions are there - well, you know what I mean). Later, talking to the Australians they said they were somewhat on the defensive because in discussions the Americans expected to get their way because we're, well, Americans (and everyone knows that we always have the answer and are quite willing to share). The Brits expected to get their way because, well, everyone else is just a colony. Therefore, the Australians felt they were at a disadvantage in disscussions and became rather defensive.
As for American perceptions of Aussies, well, we tend to view them (in my experience anyway) as fun-loving and crude. Very down to earth.
Of course these are all biases we have without a lot of basis in fact. It surprised me, for example, that of the 3 countries we've discussed, the only one where ties were a big deal was Australia (and they were rather anal about them). And there I was with nothing but shorts and a funny hat.
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Post# 14656-3/2/2002-00:34 ||| Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)
SUBJECT: RE: Who can identify the.... (Kenmore maybe?)
MESSAGE: We'll it sort of looks like a Kenmore dishwasher, actually it looks very much like a Kenmore dishwasher. Also they have a Maytag washer and dryer on this set too. I'm surprised being sponsored by GM-Chevrolet from the very beginning that they wouldn't have Frigidaire appliances, even in the Pilot episode. Wait a minute, maybe the pilot episode was filmed before they closed the deal with Chevrolet as the sponsor. That's probably it.
Anyway, take a closer look at the dishwasher, what do you guys think? I bet if it is a Kenmore, it's a store display model, because I'm sure they never marketed a dw with a front panel window.
LINK: http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/unimatic1140/vwp?.dir=/Z_quick&.dnm=Front+of+Bewitched+Dishwasher.jpg&.src=ph&.view=t&.hires=t
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Post# 14657-3/2/2002-00:37 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: RE: Who can identify the.... (What year was the pilot??)
MESSAGE: Bewitched was sponsored by GM and until the later episodes of the show, the appliances used were all Frigidaire. If I have the year of the pilot episodes, I can scan and post pics of the dishwasher models from the Frigidaire lines. There were many different models of dishwashers produced by D&M, some large and some smaller, I only used the photo of Robert's as it was easily accessible, and a good example of an early design, not as the definite model used in the show. I saw a Frigidaire dishwasher similar to what you are talking about (wider and deeper) at a thrift store a few weeks ago, but there were other models that had a larger "backsplash" too. Let me know the year and we'll find it!
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Post# 14658-3/2/2002-00:38 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: RE: Who can identify the.... (Kenmore maybe?)
MESSAGE: Well! There's a picture!
That certainly looks like a Roto Rack in there!
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Post# 14659-3/2/2002-00:40 ||| washrfreak (Dallas)
SUBJECT: RE: Who can identify the.... (Kenmore maybe?)
MESSAGE: They DID have Frigidaire appliances in later episodes (at least for some seasons).
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Post# 14660-3/2/2002-00:49 ||| gansky1 (Omaha, NE)
SUBJECT: RE: Who can identify the.... (Kenmore maybe?)
MESSAGE: Looks like there may have been a window in the top too?
What a fun machine that must have been to watch in the store - I always wanted one of those clear tank Maytags, just for fun!
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Post# 14661-3/3/2002-02:19 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: Who can identify the.... (Oh unimatic you are a gem!)
MESSAGE: And I was right about the top basket being round. It has been numerous years since I have seen this image. Well, at least my memory still serves me weel.
Thanks again. I suppose it would have been nice to have the window as a permanent feature for people like us. Other people, who are less enthusiastic about appliances, would probably find looking at unwashed dishes sitting in there unpalatable.
I would love to have a machine like that.
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Post# 14662-3/3/2002-02:28 ||| arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: HERE IT IS!!! (Thanks Arrrooohhh)
MESSAGE: Hoover manufactured a top loadaer with a heater till the late nineties when it was neutured by email/southcorp.
People back then would of boiled clothes in a copper so hot water washing was strongly entreched. On most older australian homes the laundry was often a lean to on the rear of the house off the back verandah. They were often not connected to the hot water supply, just the cold. Thats another reason why suds savers were so common on our machines too. People used a gas or electric copper to heat the water and syphon it into the machine with the suds saver, enabling a hot or warm wash.
The Frigidaire heater was not as automatic because you had to wait till the machine filled with water before you could select the heating option. When I scan the rest of the article you will find that they testers were quite picky!
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Post# 14663-3/3/2002-02:48 ||| arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Perhaps you should check again )
MESSAGE: I am sure a DD whirly must inflict more wear than 3%!!!
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Post# 14664-3/3/2002-02:48 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: Who can identify the.... (Thank you Gansky, I'll take you up on that)
MESSAGE: Well, the very first season 'Bewitched' started in 1964, but episode #1 was actually recorded in late 1963.
I am jealous, our thrift shops don't ever have such gems when I go looking, otherwise I would start my own collection. For some reason or other, vintage appliances are very hard to find.
I would be most greatful if you could post some of those catalogue pictures in your album.
Your devoted fan
bubbles
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Post# 14665-3/3/2002-03:26 ||| arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: ACHTUNG!!! HERR-MIELE!!! (For the record.)
MESSAGE: I know this has moved on but I feel I should set somethings straight. First of all I am not a socks and sandles wearing europhile who is just sucked into things bearing the phrase "European designed" or other stuff like that. I am more intelligent than to be sucked into mindless sales pitches. At the same time you could be called an Americophile (is there such a word?) You have used expressions liek hinie. Thats not an everyday australian expression. I am more likely to have my bum spanked than have my hinie whooped!!! (LOL)
You say you also want to go to the US to excapse the Australian applianced situation and escape the invasion of Europeans. If that isnt showing a bias the US products then I dont know what is.
I have not responded to your comments about things like coocking appliances. I am not knowledgeable in this area. I would probably agree than Euro cookware is probably not entriely suitable to Australian kitchens. If I was buying new kitched appliances I would very likely choose Chef or Westinghouse as these are manufactured in Australia and I want to support Australian industry as much as posible. The same goes for refrigerators.
But my comments still stand on front loaders. Its not one eyed fanatiscim but having looked at the situation and feeling honestly the a tuble action machine to be the most suitable option. This also started with my comments regarding the demise if the Hoover Electra Aust made FL. That was a machine most suitable for the was we wash with regard to cycle times choices and temp options. Top loaders are never going to disappear. All my experiences with washing machines growing up were with top loaders. I have nor been decrying that all top loaders should be rounded up for scrap metal.
Then there is the issue about rebadging. I have no problems with Euro whirlpool products as I said they are manufactured by Whirlpool. Whirlpool is more than a US company but a world wide comapany manufactureing in US, South america, Europe and Asia. Considering poor exchange rates between the US and Aust dollars Whirlpool is no doubt going to take the most economical route.
Also what makes you think that you are more an appliance connoisseur than myself. I have loved washing machines all my life. Thats why i love this site! I like washing machines regardless wether they are top loaders or front loaders. My comments and opinions on which is more suitable is not based on a political agenda or ffashion or being a yuppie. Neither have I made wild declarations like "Top Loaders Rule!!" As we have discussed on this site before (as a group) that the perfect washing machine does not exist. Remember too that Front loaders are the under dog in our market. The are only 30% of our market and a draatic increase yes but remember people buy applainces out of habit and will buy a new Simpson or Hoover or even F&P when their old one has died. Why because they always have an dtheir parents have before them. The Front Loader promotion committee is there to get people to consider the alternative and increase recognicion in the market place.
There will always be a choice for both camps.
Now that is all I am going to say futher on the matter. i enjoy this club too much to see flame wars going on and personal attacks which is what this tread has become.
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Post# 14666-3/3/2002-03:31 ||| arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Thanks mate!)
MESSAGE: Sorry to hear about all your trouble.
Hang in there!
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Post# 14667-3/3/2002-03:44 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: ACHTUNG!!! HERR-MIELE!!! (Let me explain about those ties )
MESSAGE: The tie thing is a left-over of the eighties' rationalization and restructuring era. During that period, stringent formal dress codes were being re-introduced into corporate and public service organizations. Employees were being scared into submission by the relentless push towards downsizing and rationalizing, so a more conservative approach to the workplace took hold.
This was in contrast to the seventies and early eighties, where everything was more relaxed and male office workers used to turn up to work in shorts, collared shirts, wearing knee-high socks and sandals. In some cases ties were considered optional also. A neat business shirt could be worn with open collar and the first button undone. If you had a particularly well developed and hairy chest and you worked with a large female or gay clientele, you were encouraged to leave the second and third shirt buttons open. Later during the eighties,after extensive consultancy surveys into efective business image creation and presentation, particularly in line with skyrocketing urbane real estate values and the emergence of alfresco dining, did the designer (or immitation designer) suit become more widespread and deemed as the only acceptable form of business attire.
The use of Prozac, in conjunction with laxatives, has become widespread amongst professionals in corporate and public service orgs. This has helped to facilitate a new and revolutionary approach to creating a more conducive work place environment. Weekly or bi-weekly 'mufti days' (where employees are allowed to turn up wearing smart-casual), are now being trialled. This is to glean if a casual dress code can lull employees into a false sense of security about the stability of their employment situation and companies are able to extract increased co-operation and performance from them as a result. This is also why free cookies, coffee and jelly beans are being re-introduced into the coffee room. It has been found that companies can save a signifficant proportion in staff related remuneration expenditure, if they opt for these psychological sweeteners that make employees feel more appreciated and wanted by their employer. Although, performing sexual favors for ones superiors is still found to accellerate ones employment prospects and promotional opportunities, as long as one keeps abreast with efective techniques that keep the competition at bay.
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Post# 14668-3/3/2002-03:47 ||| arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: THS revisited
MESSAGE: I know its called classic appliances. But this is one of the few places to discuss appliances at all, regardless of new or old. I like seeing hwat is new but the archivist is me aslo is very keen on seeing the past preserved. The museum is such a great feature. I have been watch the ABC videos all week!
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Post# 14669-3/3/2002-03:54 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: ACHTUNG!!! HERR-MIELE!!! (Geez settle down arrrooohhh)
MESSAGE: Don't think you've noticed that I've moved on. I suggest you do the same and don't get your knickers all tied up - we don't want this to be turned into another THS thing do we?
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Post# 14670-3/3/2002-04:03 ||| arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Hybrids)
MESSAGE: Wouldnt it be cool if one of these machines were made with a perspex drum so you could see the washing action? It would be a very unique and excinting prospect I am sure.
I really like those top load tumble machines. But the inability to watch the wash action is a drawback. Kleenmaid make a hybrid machine that has rated very highly in reviews. It is very expensive however.
LINK: http://www.kleenmaid.com.au/innovative_features/topload_features.html
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Post# 14671-3/3/2002-04:09 ||| arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: ACHTUNG!!! HERR-MIELE!!! (Geez settle down arrrooohhh)
MESSAGE: I know I just wanted to say my piece as I felt I have been misrepresented or misquoted.
I havent been able to check this site this weekend I have been so busy. Me and my westie/bogan/beven/goodna friends went to Balmoral to watch Shakespear by the sea and get some culture.
Ahh the sea, so much more restfull than the drive by shootings that go on in my street.
ANyway I am busy uploading more pages of the choice test so check them out soon!
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Post# 14672-3/3/2002-04:11 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Hybrids)
MESSAGE: I suppose a top view through a see-thru lid and perspex drum would be interesting. Although there would have to be an internal light source, otherwise one wouldn't see much. The opening is very small. A Staber washer, on the other hand, would probably be more suited to such an idea. Especially since it doesn't have as high a spin speed as the Kleenmaid hybrids.
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Post# 14673-3/3/2002-04:13 ||| arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: ACHTUNG!!! HERR-MIELE!!! (tangles)
MESSAGE: An impeller machine is just the thing one needs if they really want their undies in a tangle! LOL!
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Post# 14674-3/3/2002-04:16 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: ACHTUNG!!! HERR-MIELE!!! (tangles)
MESSAGE: Are you bagging out on impeller machines?
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Post# 14675-3/3/2002-04:19 ||| arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Hybrids)
MESSAGE: The kleenmaid is not that small when you look at it in the metal. It seems quite reasonable. Its a fascinaitng machine and I would love to llok at it in some detail. The problem is kleenmaid sales people. They are like car salesmen. They just wont leave you alone if you walk into there stores. I always look and choose a moment when its quite busy looking.
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Post# 14676-3/3/2002-04:25 ||| arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: ACHTUNG!!! HERR-MIELE!!! (tangles)
MESSAGE: Heavens no!
I do find them very interesting. People in general though seem to think they are great and then say they dont like them when they get them into use.
I would so badly love to have a Hoover Keymatic and that too is an impeller machine. A front loading tilted tub impeller machine! Talk about a split personality!
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Post# 14677-3/3/2002-04:29 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Hybrids)
MESSAGE: I will not comment anymore for fear of being controversial. These machines serve their purpose, but as you said, are too expensive to be taken seriously by the public. Especially since there is such a huge array of alternatives available at more attractive prices. I would actually think that a washer like the LG turbo drum would be far more interesting to observe - but that is jut my view. Do you actually know how effective the LG t/l turbo drum washer is? What sort of consumer reviews, if any, has it received? I wsa told by a sales person that, although it is supposed to fit 8 kg of dry weight, its washing effectiveness is actually compromised if filled to the rim and about 6 or 7 kilos is ideal.
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Post# 14678-3/3/2002-04:37 ||| arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: westinghouse appliances (Hybrids)
MESSAGE: The LG Turbo Drum DD ( the one with no impeller, just the drum) Is the most fascinating washing machine to watch that is made today! (Unfortunately no more obital ABC style machines are made anymore) It too is expensive and i havent seen any reviews for it or know of anyones personal experiences with it. Maybe it just takes clothes for a bit of a ride but what a show! A lot of stores have a demo model set up. Keep looking out for one. Once again it doesnt really save energy or water. Its just "different". But I like different!
There were rumours of Whirlpool producing a hybrid machine like the Kleenmaid for the American market. It would of been full 60cm width and have and enourmous capacity but they came out with the Calypso instead.
Bendix makes a hybrid machine too which is much cheaper. It has another door though so access isnt as easy as the kleenmaid machine.
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Post# 14679-3/3/2002-04:40 ||| Mr-Bubbles (Australia)
SUBJECT: RE: ACHTUNG!!! HERR-MIELE!!! (tangles)
MESSAGE: I have never seen a keymatic and would love to. I heard it looked a little like a cement mixer? Did it have a clear lid so one could observe the washing action? Obviously the lid had to be watertight.
Teh only impeller machines I came accross were European and that was in the sixties. My grandmother had one (don't know what brand) and when her clothes were all shredded and tangled she knew that her clothes were clean. I think that a lot of German impeller machines did not alternate the oscillation and that is why these machines were so rough on clothes.
I have used one of those Japanese made automatic impeller washers at a holiday unit in Cairns and didn't find it that bad. But there is that psychological thing about clothes being torn to bits by