Thread Number: 12022
Candidate for worst new dishwasher???? |
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Post# 212807 , Reply# 1   5/28/2007 at 17:00 (6,149 days old) by a78jumper ()   |   | |
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The offensive little beast... |
Post# 212892 , Reply# 3   5/28/2007 at 21:48 (6,149 days old) by exploder3211 ()   |   | |
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From what i've used/seen any BOL frigidaire sucks bad, as they don't have enough power to do anything more than wash already clean dishes |
Post# 212939 , Reply# 4   5/29/2007 at 05:06 (6,148 days old) by robliverpool (england Liverpool)   |   | |
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the worst dishwasher we ever owned was a whirlpool bought in 2001 and given away in 2002. the wash times were long and the dishes rarely came out clean. Bits of food still left on plates and pans and it was noisy aswell. The best dishwasher we bought and still have is the hotpoint aquarius nice hot washes plenty of rinses and nearly always spotless dishes
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Post# 212940 , Reply# 5   5/29/2007 at 05:16 (6,148 days old) by pulsator (Saint Joseph, MI)   |   | |
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I have to say our Bosch should be on this list. I've discovered that even on the longest wash possible, I still have to pre-scrub everything or everything comes out with bits of food on them. Mom is not happy! She thinks our TT KitchenAid did a better job, while I don't think it's that extreme, the Bosch definetly needs to go!
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Post# 212941 , Reply# 6   5/29/2007 at 07:09 (6,148 days old) by mayken4now (Panama City, Florida)   |   | |
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Post# 212961 , Reply# 7   5/29/2007 at 08:41 (6,148 days old) by a78jumper ()   |   | |
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I am putting up with it for the short term until I move into something permanent. Even the BOL Maytag at $400 I installed in my last house was a lot better, albeit even noisier. |
Post# 212962 , Reply# 8   5/29/2007 at 08:42 (6,148 days old) by a78jumper ()   |   | |
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Suprisingly their washing machine another BOL Roper does wash my clothing pretty well, but it and the dryer a pretty tinny. |
Post# 212969 , Reply# 9   5/29/2007 at 09:12 (6,148 days old) by exploder3211 ()   |   | |
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I have a BOL Hotpoint and it gets stuff much cleaner than my TT Kenmore did |
Post# 213332 , Reply# 12   5/31/2007 at 06:38 (6,146 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)   |   | |
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In a pinch boil 3 quarts ( 3 litres )of water in a pan and dump in machine at the beginning of the cycle. (assuming the machine does not pump out/drain first.) Dilute detergent in it if preferred. It helps. Be careful not to over-fill the machine. Make sure the water at the adjacent faucet runs hot before the machine is started. One can even do a "rinse and hold" with detergent to purge the lines of cold water, then add the boiling water to a normal cycle. |
Post# 213337 , Reply# 13   5/31/2007 at 07:16 (6,146 days old) by gadgetgary (Bristol,CT)   |   | |
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Post# 213386 , Reply# 15   5/31/2007 at 14:05 (6,146 days old) by magic clean ()   |   | |
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ElectraSol powder detergent is not enzyme based like their tablets or Great Value. That might explain the difference in results. |
Post# 214714 , Reply# 17   6/6/2007 at 22:20 (6,140 days old) by pulsator (Saint Joseph, MI)   |   | |
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Our Bosch dishwasher is brand new! From the first use, it has produced poor results, I now have to not only prescrub, but preWASH all of the dishes before putting them in on the LONGEST cycle the machine has to offer! Glasses still come out with spots on them! I use Cascade oroginal powder and Jet Dry rinse aid, I've tried varying both to see if anything helps. No matter how much detergent or rinse aid I use, glasses still come out covvered in spots that will come off if scrubbed after they come out of the dishwasher! The worst is the silverware rack, I've tried putting silverware in with the handles up and the handles down, I've tried to little organizing grid for silverware and still, all of my silverware comes out with food dried onto it! BLECH!
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Post# 214728 , Reply# 18   6/6/2007 at 23:09 (6,140 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Try adding some phosphates (STPP), works wonders. Granted one shouldn't have to add anything, but these days it is all some dishwashers can manage what with water restrictions and all. If you do not have a supply of STPP handy, drop me an email and perhaps can send you a bit in a ziploc baggie, or some such small container. However if the postal police/Homeland Security show up at your home asking about loose white powder in your mail, you are on your own! *LOL* L. |
Post# 214774 , Reply# 19   6/7/2007 at 07:05 (6,139 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)   |   | |
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Post# 214790 , Reply# 20   6/7/2007 at 08:45 (6,139 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)   |   | |
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In my posting above I mention that I thought the Electrosol wasn't doing the job in our DW. Well, the DW was having a problem, that's why it wasn't cleaning. This became the subject of another thread. All fixed now and Electrosol is doing a good job. |
Post# 214840 , Reply# 21   6/7/2007 at 14:49 (6,139 days old) by aamassther (Hendersonville, NC )   |   | |
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Jamie, we too have a new Bosch dishwasher, SHE58. I've not had issues to the same extent you have, however, I did have to experiment with detergents that work best. In our old DW, I used plain Cascade powder, Electrasol and Dish Drops tabs. With excellent results. In the new Bosch, the first two didn't work well. I've found that Cascade Complete powder, Dish Drops tabs and the very expensive Miele tabs work much better(I bought them at Arbor Vacuum). I've used Ecover tabs, also. They work pretty well(Whole Foods and Arbor Farms have them). Over all I really do like the Miele best, I wish they weren't so expensive, followed by the Dish Drops. I would be happy to pop a couple of each in the post for you to try. With this new dishwasher I'm able to get baking dishes, pots and pans and baked on stuff, at least, mostly clean. Something I would never have been able to do in the old TOL Frigidaire. I think Launderess is correct. These machines are very water and energy efficient and require a bit of a learning curve to get the best results. I've had to experiment with detergents in my Bosch 6400 washer, as well. Our old Frigidaire FL could take just about any detergent I threw at it, except the P&G HE liquids, the Bosch is quite picky, even my favourite, SA8 can be too sudsy. The best ones I've found are Persil, Persil Megaperls Colour and Shaklee powders. Now that I've found products that work in my machines I'm really happy with the results. Hope this helps, Todd |
Post# 215199 , Reply# 22   6/10/2007 at 00:43 (6,137 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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Pulsator, There's a chance that the screen/trap is not seated properly on your Bosch. Make sure the central cylinder is aligned properly, and then with a partial turn clockwise, it should lock firmly in place. Anything else will result in food particles on the finished dishes and an overall bad result. The trick, I've found, is aligning the cylinder properly to begin with. No matter how many times I've done it, it seems to take a couple three tries before I get it. But once in, my SHU43C works great - far better than the MOL Frigidaire it replaced (which had fatal debris screen warpage/leakage issues). |
Post# 215204 , Reply# 23   6/10/2007 at 03:40 (6,136 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)   |   | |
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Jamie, German dishwashers (and washers) are shipped with various little protective pieces of tape, foam rubber, films, etc. If your machine was set up by the installers, they may either have forgotten something and it is now slowly dissolving and blocking a filter or they knocked something loose by accident. German dishwashers - B/S/H or Miele or otherwise do not leave residue on dishes, period. Like Italian machines, they use a series of filters to trap and remove the food particles. So make sure all the filters (and I do mean all) are clean and installed properly. Any decent enzymatic detergent (Great Value is very good, actually) will work here. Stupid question, and please forgive me for asking...but the first time my mother used my Miele in Germany, she set it to "Vorspülen" and thought, after the 17 minute pre-wash, it was done. Given the way the American dishwashers are "dumbed down" by the German manufacturers, nothing would surprise me. (The why of that is interesting, but not for this thread.) |
Post# 215215 , Reply# 24   6/10/2007 at 08:27 (6,136 days old) by pulsator (Saint Joseph, MI)   |   | |
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Post# 215231 , Reply# 25   6/10/2007 at 11:40 (6,136 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)   |   | |
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This product is not regulated in the US. The Chemistry Store (see link below) sells it in small quantities... But, Jamie, forgive my German stubborness here, it is impossible for this dishwasher to be performing so poorly unless something is broken or an important step has been overlooked. You did not mention the model number, so here are some things I would look for here in Germany: - Soft water. Since German water is frequently very very hard, our dishwashers are always built to use a water softener or to use detergent with an extra water softener built in. Does yours have a built in water softener? If so, is there salt in the recharger? - Temperature. Some electronic controls freak out if the incomming water is too cold or too hot (Whirlpool have had to deal with this and there was a cool video clip on it in a thread not too long ago.) Is the machine set to heat the water or to just use whatever comes in? -Detergent Dispensing. Is the detergent being dispensed into the pre-wash, leaving none behind for the main wash? Don't laugh; those B/S/H covers can be hard to close properly. -Rinse agent. If the setting is too high or too low this can cause problems. -Not enough water. The arms should all be moving freely during the wash. Especially the topmost arm, which is responsible for cleaning the cutlery should really whiz along. Now, some B/S/H models have "partial fill" settings which turn off some of the spray arms. This saves water...but if that setting has somehow been activated on your model...well, it would explain everything. The basic rule of European dishwashers, as opposed to American is that we hate to pre-wash, don't see why we should (that is the whole idea of a dish-WASHER) and loading is not all that critical, either. Ah. Just had a thought. I had to install a check-valve on my mum's dishwasher last year, the garbage disposal was overflowing back into it. (I know, I know). CLICK HERE TO GO TO panthera's LINK |
Post# 215601 , Reply# 27   6/12/2007 at 03:22 (6,134 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)   |   | |
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not as a jet-setter, but because I have to. In Germany I use a Miele and a Candy. In the US, I use a Maytag and a GE. All four machines have good ratings in their respective consumer tests. The European machines take nearly twice as long to clean. The European machines start with cold water. The European machines make their own "soft-water". European dishwasher detergent is 30% phosphate plus enyzmes and oxygen bleach. Because they start with cold water, European dishwashers are able to heat the water to the best temperatures: first to the temps. the enzymes like. Then to the temps. the bleach likes. And let's face it, 30% phosphate is probably 99.99% of the cleaning difference, anyway. They have the time to really pre-wash (my Miele takes 17 minutes). They have the time to really wash until really clean. US dishwashers have to work with warm water which is already so warm that the bleach partially deactivates the enzymes. If the dishwasher does heat the water, then only to "boost" it. At 110V, 20Amps= 2200W Maximum you just can't do more than about 1°/minute. (Mine runs at 230V, 16 amps=3680W Maximum. Big whomping difference.)(Actually, it could also run on 3-phase but we aren't going to have that discussion again. Ever.) We all understand saponification and we all know about the attacking the glasses problem so that is why you have to load with dirty dishes. And this is where the differences come into play. Pre-rinsing here means remove the bones and olive pits. Burnt on, baked on, even cream-of-wheat doesn't matter. It all comes out clean. Andrew, I'm sorry, but since I use two very good US dishwashers regularly, you just are not going to get me to believe that they clean non-pre-rinsed cream-of-wheat and burnt on eggs, baked on potatoes completely. They don't and they can't. This is not a case of me bashing your country. It is, as Laundress so frequently says: time, heat, agitation. So to speak. When you consider the limitations they have to deal with, US dishwashers do a good job. |
Post# 215609 , Reply# 28   6/12/2007 at 07:16 (6,134 days old) by countryguy (Astorville, ON, Canada)   |   | |
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I have a 1991 Maytag and I do not pre-rinse. I think it is a waste of time - that is what the dishwasher is for. Most everyone I know, however does pre-rinse and I keep trying to tell them that it is not necessary, provided that the dishwasher is loaded properly, but they refuse to believe it or to give it a try. I've never had problems with the dishes coming out dirty. And BTW, my Maytag is the older style ie. the plates on the top rack and the glasses, cups on the bottom. I put everything in the dishwasher except for the pots/pans and that's only because I don't want to ruin the finish.
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Post# 215828 , Reply# 30   6/13/2007 at 14:34 (6,133 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)   |   | |
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"real" Kitchen-Aids were great, tho' they were a bit small, you're right. Andrew, I've lived "between" both worlds for over 25 years now and I'm used to the fact that in both Europe and the US there are folks who are firm believers that their way is the only way. No doubt I come on much too strong with my disapointment at the way US product quality has slipped over the years. At least we are in agreement over our love for vintage appliances. Just one sad little note - forgive me - When the Japanese first moved into the electronics sector, folks in the West laughed at them. By the mid-80's neither you nor we had any real market share. Folks laughed and laughed at the Japanese cars "rice burners"...but Toyota is the #1 in sales, quality and customer satisfaction now...and Mercedes just suffered another round of recalls, never mind your country's automotive branch and all the workers losing their jobs. Now the Chinese already have better quality than the US produces, nearly as good as ours - but at lower prices. Maybe it is time to stop insisting that "we are the biggest, the best, the greatest, etc." in both cultures. Maybe it is time to figure out what makes the others better and see if we can't do even better ourselves. Like I said, sorry - but I think about these things alot. |
Post# 215847 , Reply# 32   6/13/2007 at 15:58 (6,133 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)   |   | |
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I suspect it has been damaged in shipping. B/S/H products are expected to have an overall failure rate of maximal 1per1000 and a failure which is serious enough for a service call of maximal 1per10000. Of course, Bosch is not the top of the line brand in Europe, so these tolerances have to be seen as just average quality. |
Post# 215950 , Reply# 34   6/14/2007 at 03:43 (6,132 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)   |   | |
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Post# 219761 , Reply# 36   7/1/2007 at 03:32 (6,115 days old) by spankomatic (Ukiah,CA)   |   | |
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Post# 219763 , Reply# 37   7/1/2007 at 03:36 (6,115 days old) by spankomatic (Ukiah,CA)   |   | |
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Post# 219954 , Reply# 41   7/1/2007 at 23:17 (6,115 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)   |   | |
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Lordy! What year is that TOL Maytag dishwasher, Chad? Mine's an '05 and it cleans fantastically. In fact, I've been using the 20-minute InstaWash cycle a lot lately and full loads are coming out really well. It handles crusty, baked-on pots and pans better than any of my previous DWers---including KitchenAid (both Hobart & post-Hobart vintages), Whirlpool, and Frigidaire. No problems with the door, either... In fact, after making several loaves of bread and a batch of blueberry jam today, I put the doughy food processor bowls and all the jam-making equipment---including a really gunky Dutch oven, jar funnel and a couple of big stainless stirring spoons---and selected InstaWash because I was in a hurry. Figured I'd have to do a fair amount of post-wash touching up. To my utter amazement, the only item that wasn't spotless was one of the two food processor bowls; it had 2 little bits of dough still attached, which I wiped away with a damp paper towel. Even the sticky SS measuring cups on the upper rack's cup shelf came clean. Not bad for a 20-minute cycle! |
Post# 220252 , Reply# 43   7/3/2007 at 09:19 (6,113 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)   |   | |
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Chad--I know know what the problem is; there's a plastic trim strip which gets screwed into the underside of the countertop. It tends to warp a bit during long, high-temp cycles, and the top edge of the door can hit it. My dealer/installer was aware of this and put in one or two extra screws. No problem with door hitting the strip. The strip always reverts to its correct shape once the DW cools a bit after the cycle is completed. I'm sorry to hear your friend has had bad luck with Maytag dishwashers! I just can't say enough good things about mine. I love the loading flexibility and the fantastic cleaning results. The dish drawers---or especially a Miele---will be quieter, though. |
Post# 221205 , Reply# 45   7/7/2007 at 12:46 (6,109 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)   |   | |
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My Chinese Haier rental dishwasher has to be the worst. It's not as loud as the old GEs...but its fit and finish, washability and build quality and cycle programing are outrageous. It is a horrible copy of a morphed GE/Whirlpool machine with the whirlpool style inward sparying wash arm and a GE style PowerTower. But it doesn't wash!!! It has NO filtration and the water jets were aimed so far inward on an angle they never touched the dishes. The outermost jets were a mere 2mm in diameter, and were clogged on the first cycle run. In order to get marginal results, I had to drill out the outside jets, and bend the [whatever non-ferrous] metal spray jets to a more vertical angle. It's bad guys. Haier is the worst. They didn't even try to build a "decent" machine. On the upside, it has an American sourced GE pump and motor. |
Post# 221532 , Reply# 46   7/9/2007 at 02:12 (6,108 days old) by spankomatic (Ukiah,CA)   |   | |
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I use my friends Maytag tall tub dishwasher often in their home. They got it in 2003. The motor has always made a grinding noise periodically. Not sure what that is all about. I suspect cheap plastic parts.It does clean the dishes well. Takes almost 2 hours on light wash,extra rinse,heated dry to complete the cycle. I do not care for the tall tub. It is too low to the ground. You really have to bend down for that lower rack. I also do not care for the siverware holder. I prefer a long silverware holder in the front. Not a rectangle one in the front/middle. (Just a preference). The Maytag is o.k. since it cleans well. I like Kitchenaid features and design better. I like stainless steel tubs much better than plastic. Jim |
Post# 221545 , Reply# 48   7/9/2007 at 05:24 (6,107 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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Post# 223198 , Reply# 51   7/17/2007 at 00:51 (6,100 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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Post# 223207 , Reply# 53   7/17/2007 at 01:14 (6,100 days old) by goprog ()   |   | |
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Sort of sorry - that should have proably been in the Sandbox thread. |
Post# 223393 , Reply# 56   7/17/2007 at 18:11 (6,099 days old) by goprog ()   |   | |
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Tomturbomatic EXACTLY the way I see it! I'm not alone! |
Post# 223545 , Reply# 58   7/18/2007 at 14:04 (6,098 days old) by gadgetgary (Bristol,CT)   |   | |
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Post# 223553 , Reply# 60   7/18/2007 at 14:41 (6,098 days old) by gadgetgary (Bristol,CT)   |   | |
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Installed in 1986 and still going strong. His racks are blue. The racks in mine are white. I picked up my 2800 from Ebay a few years ago. In 1992, I sold my GE 2800 to a relative and replaced it with my KUDS22 series dw which is still in my kitchen. I missed my GE 2800 a lot, and decided to get another one and use that in my rec room downstairs. Here is my daily driver: |
Post# 223581 , Reply# 61   7/18/2007 at 18:26 (6,098 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)   |   | |
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why do companies no longer make cool computerized dishwashers? no more sensors and diagnostics? Everyone's hell bent on hiding the controls now, I want a cool computerized dishwasher with a vacuum fluorescent display. Something like that GE 2800 but with the wash system of a Maytag. THAT would be cool :-) BWT, attn: I'm moving into a new apartment in a week or so. This means NEW DISHWASHER, and no more shitty HAIER. It's a Frigidaire 1510 with the 5 level wash. I can't wait! Tower wash sucks! |
Post# 227438 , Reply# 65   8/3/2007 at 22:33 (6,082 days old) by lasvegasrox ()   |   | |
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what about this dishwasher a maytag |
Post# 227456 , Reply# 66   8/3/2007 at 23:38 (6,082 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)   |   | |
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Post# 227645 , Reply# 68   8/4/2007 at 15:13 (6,081 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)   |   | |
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why do they not bother putting those neat computerized features in dishwashers anymore? Everything, even the top of the line stuff is all just push pads and MAYBE a few LEDs. Now you never have any idea where the cycle is or how long or what the machine's status is. When we got our Triton XL in 2003, I grabbed the GSD6660, because it was one of the few upper line machines that still specified SENSING, WASHING, RINSING, DRYING, CLEAN, SANITIZED. All other machines mostly don't tell you that stuff anymore. WHY NOT? Do people really not care what goes on in the box anymore? |
Post# 227664 , Reply# 70   8/4/2007 at 16:36 (6,081 days old) by mrcleanjeans (milwaukee wi)   |   | |
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the BOL Kenmore,made by Frigidaire with the pop-up wash tower is far and away the WORST dishwasher I've ever used.It may as well pee on the dishes with its weak wimpy pump. |
Post# 227678 , Reply# 71   8/4/2007 at 17:53 (6,081 days old) by logixx (Germany)   |   | |
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Many manufacturers offer high-tech dishwashers. AEG/Electrolux sells a dishwasher with LC-display, interior light, stainless steel racks,... They also have a 90 cm wide dishwasher with one rack (and a small rack for cups). In Europe, Miele sells its improved LaPerla that, for example, will automatically open the door at the end of the cycle. It can also lock the door itself, has variable spray pressure, sensor-controlled drying and water-softening and a Turbo option. Gorenje offers most of its TOL appliances with animated touch screen controls - unfortunately, they don't have TOL dishwashers. Asko's TOL dishwashers is practically fully programmable: Super Rinse, Cool Touch, 3 drying levels, Express option. The DW allows you to individually set the temp (there are 9 to choose from) on almost every cycle. You can store custom cycles or let the machine perform a Mixed Wash with high-pressure in the lower and low pressure in the upper rack. There's also a sensor-controlled drying cycle and an interior light. Blomberg TOL dishwasher with LC-display offers a Mix cycle that'll wash both baskets until the temp reaches 110°. It then turns the upper spray arm off, increases pressure by 60% and continues to wash pot & pans at 170°F. Bosch/Siemens dishwashers have up to three Auto Wash cycles, a soil sensor that'll automatically adjust spray pressure (it even changes for different steps in the cycle) and a VarioSpeed option to cut the cycle time by 50%. A heat exchanger pre-heats the water prior to each water change. A high-resolution LC-display will tell you what's going on inside the machine: whether it's checking the sensor, washing at high pressure, sanitizing or whether the glass care system or heat exchanger are activated. For the above machines, water consumption ranges from 9 to 14 liters (on the energy-label cycle), noise levels range from 40 to 44 dB. You can choose from 8 to 16 cycles - excluding all those extra options available. The Miele and B/S/H dishwashers can even be remote-controlled - even via cell phone. Granted, many of these premium features carry a premium price tag... Alex CLICK HERE TO GO TO logixx's LINK |
Post# 227746 , Reply# 72   8/4/2007 at 22:13 (6,081 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)   |   | |
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Post# 228115 , Reply# 73   8/6/2007 at 15:20 (6,079 days old) by logixx (Germany)   |   | |
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Well, some of these machine are also available in the US. ASKO: www.askousa.com/dishwashers/model... B/S/H: www.boschappliances.com/product69... The Miele G2831SCi is actually pretty similar to the LaPerla - except for some software and mechanical updates. Blomberg (international site): www.blomberginternational.com/en/... |