Thread Number: 12022
Candidate for worst new dishwasher????
[Down to Last]

automaticwasher.org's exclusive eBay Watch:
scroll >>> for more items --- [As an eBay Partner, eBay may compensate automaticwasher.org if you make a purchase using any link to eBay on this page]
Post# 212806   5/28/2007 at 16:56 (6,149 days old) by a78jumper ()        

My nomination is the Roper single arm POS that is installed in the furnished apartment I am in having newly relocated to Fort McMurray, Alberta. I guess things wash OK on the bottom rack, but everything on the top is still dirty, or encrusted with bits of food, necessitating a lot of pre rinsing. For another $100 they could have installed something that works IMHO.




Post# 212807 , Reply# 1   5/28/2007 at 17:00 (6,149 days old) by a78jumper ()        

The offensive little beast...

Post# 212889 , Reply# 2   5/28/2007 at 21:42 (6,149 days old) by spincookery ()        
Worst new dishwasher

I couldn't agree more with what you're saying. This ROPER is made by Whirlpool in Canada. It uses a centre spray cone to get water to the top rack and it just doesn't work too well. I had a portable one branded under the Kenmore name. I got rid of it pretty quick and bought a Moffat (Camco now Mabe Inc. GE knock off). What a difference. 3 level filtered wash, heated rinse and lots of cycles. The rack layout is good but I think Frigidaire racking is better. It's more like the original Westinghouse design - you could pack those babies full!

Post# 212892 , Reply# 3   5/28/2007 at 21:48 (6,149 days old) by exploder3211 ()        

From what i've used/seen any BOL frigidaire sucks bad, as they don't have enough power to do anything more than wash already clean dishes

Post# 212939 , Reply# 4   5/29/2007 at 05:06 (6,148 days old) by robliverpool (england Liverpool)        
worst dishwasher

robliverpool's profile picture
the worst dishwasher we ever owned was a whirlpool bought in 2001 and given away in 2002. the wash times were long and the dishes rarely came out clean. Bits of food still left on plates and pans and it was noisy aswell. The best dishwasher we bought and still have is the hotpoint aquarius nice hot washes plenty of rinses and nearly always spotless dishes

Post# 212940 , Reply# 5   5/29/2007 at 05:16 (6,148 days old) by pulsator (Saint Joseph, MI)        

pulsator's profile picture
I have to say our Bosch should be on this list. I've discovered that even on the longest wash possible, I still have to pre-scrub everything or everything comes out with bits of food on them. Mom is not happy! She thinks our TT KitchenAid did a better job, while I don't think it's that extreme, the Bosch definetly needs to go!

Post# 212941 , Reply# 6   5/29/2007 at 07:09 (6,148 days old) by mayken4now (Panama City, Florida)        

mayken4now's profile picture
Any plastic tub BOL - MOL (ALL OF THEM) are a POS in my opinion.

Frigidaire, Roper and GE are about the worst I guess.

Anywho, thats a landlord being cheap. Bet his/hers is not the same one you have in your apt?

Steve


Post# 212961 , Reply# 7   5/29/2007 at 08:41 (6,148 days old) by a78jumper ()        

I am putting up with it for the short term until I move into something permanent. Even the BOL Maytag at $400 I installed in my last house was a lot better, albeit even noisier.

Post# 212962 , Reply# 8   5/29/2007 at 08:42 (6,148 days old) by a78jumper ()        

Suprisingly their washing machine another BOL Roper does wash my clothing pretty well, but it and the dryer a pretty tinny.

Post# 212969 , Reply# 9   5/29/2007 at 09:12 (6,148 days old) by exploder3211 ()        

I have a BOL Hotpoint and it gets stuff much cleaner than my TT Kenmore did

Post# 213236 , Reply# 10   5/30/2007 at 18:56 (6,147 days old) by rinso (Meridian Idaho)        

Worst dishwasher? My mom's RCA made by GE, I think. It had nothing in the system to seperate the food particles from the water during wash & rinse. The user's manual said just to scrape large food particles from the dishes before loading. What a joke! Unless you rinsed everything off the dishes before loading, it would end up being distributed to all the other dishes in the tub.

Post# 213240 , Reply# 11   5/30/2007 at 19:05 (6,147 days old) by mikes ()        
Actually, My Roper Washes Well

My BOL Roper dishwasher (standard equipment in my 1999 condo) has done a good washing job overall. But I have found several things
1. Proper loading is the key to clean dishes; making sure the items get in contact with the water.
2. Before I run it, I turn on the hot water and run the disposer for about a minute.
3. ALWAYS use an enzyme-based detergent (I use Wal-Mart's Great Value powder; it does the best job for me and costs the least.)
I plan on replacing the Roper....when it breaks down!


Post# 213332 , Reply# 12   5/31/2007 at 06:38 (6,146 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        

toggleswitch's profile picture
In a pinch boil 3 quarts ( 3 litres )of water in a pan and dump in machine at the beginning of the cycle. (assuming the machine does not pump out/drain first.) Dilute detergent in it if preferred. It helps. Be careful not to over-fill the machine.

Make sure the water at the adjacent faucet runs hot before the machine is started. One can even do a "rinse and hold" with detergent to purge the lines of cold water, then add the boiling water to a normal cycle.



Post# 213337 , Reply# 13   5/31/2007 at 07:16 (6,146 days old) by gadgetgary (Bristol,CT)        
Agreed

gadgetgary's profile picture
~I use Wal-Mart's Great Value powder; it does the best job for me and costs the least.)


Also love Electrasol(not lemon)


Post# 213369 , Reply# 14   5/31/2007 at 11:47 (6,146 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)        

Gary:

We use the Walmart Great Value and alternate with Electrosol non-lemon too.
It seems that this last box of Electrosol doesn't work as well as previous boxes did. The powder is fresh and not clumped (not moisture contaiminated). We ran loads the last two days and we had food still stuck to the glasses. Of course we are using a BOL GE. But it usually works really well. The difference was so great that I actually checked the machine while it was running to ensure that the wash arm was moving and the tower was popping up. (It was).
One of the tests I use is pancake batter stuck on a clear glass pyrex mixing bowl. I just put it in the dishwasher unrinsed on the top rack. Usually it comes out spotless. Yesterday it came out with most of the batter still on it!


Post# 213386 , Reply# 15   5/31/2007 at 14:05 (6,146 days old) by magic clean ()        

ElectraSol powder detergent is not enzyme based like their tablets or Great Value. That might explain the difference in results.

Post# 214685 , Reply# 16   6/6/2007 at 20:56 (6,140 days old) by rolls_rapide (.)        
Pulsator

How old is your Bosch? Modern ones have the following problem.

Here in the UK, there is a common fault with Bosch and Siemens dishwashers: that of the blocked 'fill tube'. This tube allows water to enter the tub via the sump.

This is a corrugated tube that comes down from the heat exchanger/fill matrix on the left-hand side, and enters the sump wall, tangentially, at the sump's front wall. It has a habit of clogging up with grease and food deposits.

To clean this tube, isolate the machine from the mains electricity supply. Remove the lower basket. Remove the filters.

Carefully leaning into the machine, with a battery torch (flashlight), you may be able to see a small hole about the width of a finger, set into the vertical sump wall at the 6 O'Clock position. This needs to be GENTLY rodded out, using slim bottle-brushes.

DO NOT use excessive force, as the tube could come adrift, or be punctured.

The tube leads off left, upwards and backwards, and terminates at the water level pressure vessel. Even a small amount of crud can cause weird water level problems.


Post# 214714 , Reply# 17   6/6/2007 at 22:20 (6,140 days old) by pulsator (Saint Joseph, MI)        

pulsator's profile picture
Our Bosch dishwasher is brand new! From the first use, it has produced poor results, I now have to not only prescrub, but preWASH all of the dishes before putting them in on the LONGEST cycle the machine has to offer! Glasses still come out with spots on them! I use Cascade oroginal powder and Jet Dry rinse aid, I've tried varying both to see if anything helps. No matter how much detergent or rinse aid I use, glasses still come out covvered in spots that will come off if scrubbed after they come out of the dishwasher! The worst is the silverware rack, I've tried putting silverware in with the handles up and the handles down, I've tried to little organizing grid for silverware and still, all of my silverware comes out with food dried onto it! BLECH!

Post# 214728 , Reply# 18   6/6/2007 at 23:09 (6,140 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
Try adding some phosphates (STPP), works wonders.

Granted one shouldn't have to add anything, but these days it is all some dishwashers can manage what with water restrictions and all.

If you do not have a supply of STPP handy, drop me an email and perhaps can send you a bit in a ziploc baggie, or some such small container. However if the postal police/Homeland Security show up at your home asking about loose white powder in your mail, you are on your own! *LOL*

L.


Post# 214774 , Reply# 19   6/7/2007 at 07:05 (6,139 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        
Hello this is emergenvcy 9-1-1, What is your emergency?

toggleswitch's profile picture
CHOKING GASPING FED!


Let THEM snort it to test it.



Post# 214790 , Reply# 20   6/7/2007 at 08:45 (6,139 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)        

In my posting above I mention that I thought the Electrosol wasn't doing the job in our DW. Well, the DW was having a problem, that's why it wasn't cleaning. This became the subject of another thread. All fixed now and Electrosol is doing a good job.

Post# 214840 , Reply# 21   6/7/2007 at 14:49 (6,139 days old) by aamassther (Hendersonville, NC )        

aamassther's profile picture
Jamie, we too have a new Bosch dishwasher, SHE58. I've not had issues to the same extent you have, however, I did have to experiment with detergents that work best. In our old DW, I used plain Cascade powder, Electrasol and Dish Drops tabs. With excellent results. In the new Bosch, the first two didn't work well. I've found that Cascade Complete powder, Dish Drops tabs and the very expensive Miele tabs work much better(I bought them at Arbor Vacuum). I've used Ecover tabs, also. They work pretty well(Whole Foods and Arbor Farms have them). Over all I really do like the Miele best, I wish they weren't so expensive, followed by the Dish Drops. I would be happy to pop a couple of each in the post for you to try. With this new dishwasher I'm able to get baking dishes, pots and pans and baked on stuff, at least, mostly clean. Something I would never have been able to do in the old TOL Frigidaire.
I think Launderess is correct. These machines are very water and energy efficient and require a bit of a learning curve to get the best results. I've had to experiment with detergents in my Bosch 6400 washer, as well. Our old Frigidaire FL could take just about any detergent I threw at it, except the P&G HE liquids, the Bosch is quite picky, even my favourite, SA8 can be too sudsy. The best ones I've found are Persil, Persil Megaperls Colour and Shaklee powders.
Now that I've found products that work in my machines I'm really happy with the results. Hope this helps, Todd


Post# 215199 , Reply# 22   6/10/2007 at 00:43 (6,137 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

sudsmaster's profile picture
Pulsator,

There's a chance that the screen/trap is not seated properly on your Bosch. Make sure the central cylinder is aligned properly, and then with a partial turn clockwise, it should lock firmly in place. Anything else will result in food particles on the finished dishes and an overall bad result.

The trick, I've found, is aligning the cylinder properly to begin with. No matter how many times I've done it, it seems to take a couple three tries before I get it. But once in, my SHU43C works great - far better than the MOL Frigidaire it replaced (which had fatal debris screen warpage/leakage issues).


Post# 215204 , Reply# 23   6/10/2007 at 03:40 (6,136 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
Shipping tape?

panthera's profile picture
Jamie,
German dishwashers (and washers) are shipped with various little protective pieces of tape, foam rubber, films, etc. If your machine was set up by the installers, they may either have forgotten something and it is now slowly dissolving and blocking a filter or they knocked something loose by accident.
German dishwashers - B/S/H or Miele or otherwise do not leave residue on dishes, period. Like Italian machines, they use a series of filters to trap and remove the food particles. So make sure all the filters (and I do mean all) are clean and installed properly.
Any decent enzymatic detergent (Great Value is very good, actually) will work here.
Stupid question, and please forgive me for asking...but the first time my mother used my Miele in Germany, she set it to "Vorspülen" and thought, after the 17 minute pre-wash, it was done.
Given the way the American dishwashers are "dumbed down" by the German manufacturers, nothing would surprise me.
(The why of that is interesting, but not for this thread.)


Post# 215215 , Reply# 24   6/10/2007 at 08:27 (6,136 days old) by pulsator (Saint Joseph, MI)        

pulsator's profile picture
The filter is in place and seated nice and tight, and I installed the machine myself. I made sure to remove all the prtotective tape and styrofoam inserts in the machine. Where does one get STPP powder? I've been wanting to try some for both the dishes and my whites ever since the Tucson wash-in!

Post# 215231 , Reply# 25   6/10/2007 at 11:40 (6,136 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
[Na5O10P3]n

panthera's profile picture
This product is not regulated in the US. The Chemistry Store (see link below) sells it in small quantities...
But, Jamie, forgive my German stubborness here, it is impossible for this dishwasher to be performing so poorly unless something is broken or an important step has been overlooked.
You did not mention the model number, so here are some things I would look for here in Germany:
- Soft water. Since German water is frequently very very hard, our dishwashers are always built to use a water softener or to use detergent with an extra water softener built in. Does yours have a built in water softener? If so, is there salt in the recharger?
- Temperature. Some electronic controls freak out if the incomming water is too cold or too hot (Whirlpool have had to deal with this and there was a cool video clip on it in a thread not too long ago.) Is the machine set to heat the water or to just use whatever comes in?
-Detergent Dispensing. Is the detergent being dispensed into the pre-wash, leaving none behind for the main wash? Don't laugh; those B/S/H covers can be hard to close properly.
-Rinse agent. If the setting is too high or too low this can cause problems.
-Not enough water. The arms should all be moving freely during the wash. Especially the topmost arm, which is responsible for cleaning the cutlery should really whiz along. Now, some B/S/H models have "partial fill" settings which turn off some of the spray arms. This saves water...but if that setting has somehow been activated on your model...well, it would explain everything.
The basic rule of European dishwashers, as opposed to American is that we hate to pre-wash, don't see why we should (that is the whole idea of a dish-WASHER) and loading is not all that critical, either.
Ah. Just had a thought. I had to install a check-valve on my mum's dishwasher last year, the garbage disposal was overflowing back into it. (I know, I know).


CLICK HERE TO GO TO panthera's LINK


Post# 215565 , Reply# 26   6/11/2007 at 22:25 (6,135 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        
The basic rule of European dishwashers, as opposed to Americ


I thought the basic rule of any dishwasher, not just German, is that you don't have to pre-wash or pre-rinse? I know I sure as heck don't rinse anything that goes in my GE and have no trouble getting spotlessly clean dishes, glasses and pots out of it. Same with my previous KitchenAid...both American machines. User manual even says not to pre-rinse, so I don't. Why would this be limited to just German machines?


Post# 215601 , Reply# 27   6/12/2007 at 03:22 (6,134 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
I split my time between Europe and the US,

panthera's profile picture
not as a jet-setter, but because I have to.
In Germany I use a Miele and a Candy.
In the US, I use a Maytag and a GE.
All four machines have good ratings in their respective consumer tests.
The European machines take nearly twice as long to clean.
The European machines start with cold water.
The European machines make their own "soft-water".
European dishwasher detergent is 30% phosphate plus enyzmes and oxygen bleach.

Because they start with cold water, European dishwashers are able to heat the water to the best temperatures: first to the temps. the enzymes like. Then to the temps. the bleach likes. And let's face it, 30% phosphate is probably 99.99% of the cleaning difference, anyway.
They have the time to really pre-wash (my Miele takes 17 minutes). They have the time to really wash until really clean.

US dishwashers have to work with warm water which is already so warm that the bleach partially deactivates the enzymes.
If the dishwasher does heat the water, then only to "boost" it. At 110V, 20Amps= 2200W Maximum you just can't do more than about 1°/minute.
(Mine runs at 230V, 16 amps=3680W Maximum. Big whomping difference.)(Actually, it could also run on 3-phase but we aren't going to have that discussion again. Ever.)
We all understand saponification and we all know about the attacking the glasses problem so that is why you have to load with dirty dishes.
And this is where the differences come into play.
Pre-rinsing here means remove the bones and olive pits. Burnt on, baked on, even cream-of-wheat doesn't matter. It all comes out clean.
Andrew, I'm sorry, but since I use two very good US dishwashers regularly, you just are not going to get me to believe that they clean non-pre-rinsed cream-of-wheat and burnt on eggs, baked on potatoes completely. They don't and they can't.
This is not a case of me bashing your country. It is, as Laundress so frequently says: time, heat, agitation. So to speak.
When you consider the limitations they have to deal with, US dishwashers do a good job.


Post# 215609 , Reply# 28   6/12/2007 at 07:16 (6,134 days old) by countryguy (Astorville, ON, Canada)        
Pre-rinse

countryguy's profile picture
I have a 1991 Maytag and I do not pre-rinse. I think it is a waste of time - that is what the dishwasher is for. Most everyone I know, however does pre-rinse and I keep trying to tell them that it is not necessary, provided that the dishwasher is loaded properly, but they refuse to believe it or to give it a try. I've never had problems with the dishes coming out dirty. And BTW, my Maytag is the older style ie. the plates on the top rack and the glasses, cups on the bottom. I put everything in the dishwasher except for the pots/pans and that's only because I don't want to ruin the finish.

Post# 215814 , Reply# 29   6/13/2007 at 13:10 (6,133 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        

Panthera -

You can believe whatever you like, doesn't really matter. Your experiences are just different, but my GE does it quite well. And my mid-90's KitchenAid Superba also handles those same jobs with equal and sometimes better ability, just a shorter cycle with much more water and noise. Quite honestly, I wouldn't keep a dishwasher that couldn't remove such basic items as cooked cereal, rice and potatoes. And I'm a big fan of hot cereals. The GE does it in a 95 - 102(+/-) minute Cookware cycle (minus the drying time). Cream of wheat and oatmeal are no problem for it from dishes or pots. Neither are eggs, egg casseroles, potatoes or cream sauces, casseroles, pots, pans, etc. Only thing it won't remove is proteins or starches that have burned onto cookware. The quality of the water you start with makes a big difference, and mine is somewhat soft, at about 6 grains of hardness, but with good overall quality. The loading is the other key....do a crappy job loading it, it gives you a crappy job back. The KitchenAid doesn't care how you load it, it just washes what you put in it, just doesn't have the space of a GE or a Miele at all. The GE may not be a Miele, for sure not built like one, but it doesn't cost what one does, either. But it sure works well. The KitchenAid is what it is...a workhorse that's built like a tank. Even my old GE, with wash tower on the bottom, had no trouble removing cooked cereals, pasta, potatoes, etc., at all. Just couldn't clean cups and glasses worth a damn on the top rack with big stuff on the bottom, so I got rid of it because I was tired of trying to scrape the dried on crap off the cups and glasses at the end of the cycle.

Overall, I'd much rather have my KitchenAid, but with the GE's space and rack layout. But such is life....the GE does the trick just fine. And I still don't pre-rinse anything that goes in either machine, and never will.


Post# 215828 , Reply# 30   6/13/2007 at 14:34 (6,133 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
I think the

panthera's profile picture
"real" Kitchen-Aids were great, tho' they were a bit small, you're right.
Andrew, I've lived "between" both worlds for over 25 years now and I'm used to the fact that in both Europe and the US there are folks who are firm believers that their way is the only way.
No doubt I come on much too strong with my disapointment at the way US product quality has slipped over the years.
At least we are in agreement over our love for vintage appliances.
Just one sad little note - forgive me -
When the Japanese first moved into the electronics sector, folks in the West laughed at them. By the mid-80's neither you nor we had any real market share.
Folks laughed and laughed at the Japanese cars "rice burners"...but Toyota is the #1 in sales, quality and customer satisfaction now...and Mercedes just suffered another round of recalls, never mind your country's automotive branch and all the workers losing their jobs.
Now the Chinese already have better quality than the US produces, nearly as good as ours - but at lower prices.
Maybe it is time to stop insisting that "we are the biggest, the best, the greatest, etc." in both cultures. Maybe it is time to figure out what makes the others better and see if we can't do even better ourselves.
Like I said, sorry - but I think about these things alot.


Post# 215835 , Reply# 31   6/13/2007 at 15:10 (6,133 days old) by dudleyfuddpucke (USA)        

I would have to nominate the BS (Builder's Spec) Maytag installed in our model home that we purchased new two years ago. It too has just the spray cone for second rack, and rarely cleans much of anything. I have to run Heavy Duty cycles if I want any chance it will at least clean the cups, but forget about dried-on foods.

Interestingly, the BEST dishwasher I ever had was the Bosch I spec'd in my previous house, which I built new. It did have very long cycles, and it was pretty hard on plastics due to the fact it had an internal heater and got the water REALLY hot, but it was whisper quiet and it cleaned, and cleaned really well.

Makes me think the Bosch that Pulsator has is having some kind of problem.


Post# 215847 , Reply# 32   6/13/2007 at 15:58 (6,133 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
Me too,

panthera's profile picture
I suspect it has been damaged in shipping. B/S/H products are expected to have an overall failure rate of maximal 1per1000 and a failure which is serious enough for a service call of maximal 1per10000.
Of course, Bosch is not the top of the line brand in Europe, so these tolerances have to be seen as just average quality.


Post# 215897 , Reply# 33   6/13/2007 at 20:25 (6,133 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        

I don't think anyone in particular does it "best", per se, they just do it differently, many times based on years and years of traditions. And there is nothing wrong with that. Trying to introduce those types of changes into different cultures is difficult at best. Let's face it, people don't like change, and don't adapt easily. But in the end, you have to look at the results....that's where the rubber meets the road. Either you get the results you desire and/or expect, or you don't. To the average consumer, everything else is immaterial to the end result. Now we're not your average consumers on the appliance end...we know too much. But still, I don't care how it does it, all I know is that it does it and it's not me standing over the sink having to do it myself! To me, that's the worst of all the household jobs (maybe next to cleaning the windows).

Honestly, no one makes what they used to make as well as they used to make it today. Not even Miele. It's truly a shame, but it is what it is. If consumers don't demand changes, changes will never happen. And they need to do that with their wallets.


Post# 215950 , Reply# 34   6/14/2007 at 03:43 (6,132 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
Agreed!

panthera's profile picture
But, and this is what I keep (shrilly and loudly and obnoxiously) saying:
The Chinese are improving their "perceived" quality enormously and the consumers are "voting" - with their pocket books.
And that's enough 'bout that.
So how is the problem child coming? Any news from the Bosch front?


Post# 215968 , Reply# 35   6/14/2007 at 07:49 (6,132 days old) by dudleyfuddpucke (USA)        
I don't think anyone in particular does it better, per s

Sorry, I don't think I could disagree more. It's possible other people put other priorities first, and the Bosch did have its downsides. It took a long time, and because it didn't have a drying cycle the dishes still were wet at the end of the run. And as stated, because it got the water so hot I did notice it destroyed some of my cheaper plastic implements, and clouded others.

I read a lot of complaints about those items on opinions sites, but neither bothered me. Who cares if the dishes need to air dry a little, as long as it performed flawlessly in its primary mission...cleaning (which it did).


Post# 219761 , Reply# 36   7/1/2007 at 03:32 (6,115 days old) by spankomatic (Ukiah,CA)        
My worst dishwashers

spankomatic's profile picture
GE,Magic Chef,Hot Point have been the worst for me. They are the cheapest. They all have wash "towers" that pop up in the middle to get the top rack clean. They all lack good filtration. I always thought it was a pain to load the lower rack and have to work around the middle for the "tower".

Post# 219763 , Reply# 37   7/1/2007 at 03:36 (6,115 days old) by spankomatic (Ukiah,CA)        
My favorite dishwasher

spankomatic's profile picture
Kitchenaid Superba 1978-1995. These were the best of the Kitchenaids. I liked the rack design. Never pre rinsed. The dishes always came out clean,dry,no spots. Trouble free.... I did have a 2003 Kenmore portable dishwasher that worked just as well as the Kitchenaids. Very similar machines.

Post# 219850 , Reply# 38   7/1/2007 at 12:34 (6,115 days old) by rinso (Meridian Idaho)        
GE Profile even MORE problems;

Wouldn't you know, the one appliance I have never "played" with, had its control panel die last week. Of course, it is three weeks out of warranty.

The Man-to-fix, came out and did announce that there was an extended warranty on the control panel, and that it would be about a week to get a replacement.

This follows the replacement of a defective fill valve and a stuck check valve in the drain.

One thing the old ball-and-chain and I have found out by doing the dishes by hand for a week: The glasses and stainless come out sparkling and spot free. But, is it worth the work? We thinks not!


Post# 219908 , Reply# 39   7/1/2007 at 19:45 (6,115 days old) by exploder3211 ()        

I just used my friends TOL Maytag.. I used to think they where alright dishwashers, but i think not... The you tube video showing them slamming the door is semi correct.. I found the door very hard to open and close.. Also did not remove baked on grime as well as my Hotpoint.. Hmmmm.. Did another load and it did better using the cascade sample and a tab, like i do for heavly soiled loads in my hotpoint and have done before. They have a set of F&P dish drawers in the garage that are the first set out and they used them daily until they installed this.. Its being returned next week for a new set of dish drawers...The old ones don't pump out water in the top drawer and the bottom drawer hasn't worked in a year.. They said all it does is drain, wash and drain... Nothing else.. If they fill it up it works... Is it worth me trying to save?? Couldn't get pictures as it would have been odd... They also have the original Roto Rack Kenmore(1968) from the house in the shed... But the tub is eat up with rust... It will be headed to the krusher soon

Post# 219951 , Reply# 40   7/1/2007 at 23:12 (6,115 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)        

The worst dishwasher we ever had was a 1988 Kenmore TOL unit. Form the moment it was installed it was noisy, didn't clean very well either. It died in 1991 after the plastic tub rusted through. A hole opened up in the tub right over the motor. It went out in a blaze of glory!
It was replaced by a near TOL Maytag. It wasn't but about $400 or so. But the build quality was excellent. It cleaned like no other dishwasher we have ever had before or since. the door was so strong, I swear someone could probably stand on it and not hurt it. I wish we could have taken that DW with us. We moved out of that house in 1999 and the dishwasher still looked and operated like the day it was installed.


Post# 219954 , Reply# 41   7/1/2007 at 23:17 (6,115 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

frigilux's profile picture
Lordy! What year is that TOL Maytag dishwasher, Chad? Mine's an '05 and it cleans fantastically. In fact, I've been using the 20-minute InstaWash cycle a lot lately and full loads are coming out really well. It handles crusty, baked-on pots and pans better than any of my previous DWers---including KitchenAid (both Hobart & post-Hobart vintages), Whirlpool, and Frigidaire. No problems with the door, either...

In fact, after making several loaves of bread and a batch of blueberry jam today, I put the doughy food processor bowls and all the jam-making equipment---including a really gunky Dutch oven, jar funnel and a couple of big stainless stirring spoons---and selected InstaWash because I was in a hurry. Figured I'd have to do a fair amount of post-wash touching up. To my utter amazement, the only item that wasn't spotless was one of the two food processor bowls; it had 2 little bits of dough still attached, which I wiped away with a damp paper towel. Even the sticky SS measuring cups on the upper rack's cup shelf came clean. Not bad for a 20-minute cycle!



Post# 220245 , Reply# 42   7/3/2007 at 09:09 (6,113 days old) by exploder3211 ()        

Its a 2007.. The one in the linkie.. Lowes replaced it with another one and it too is a dud from what Kevin told me, esp. the door part, had a cabniet guy out who checked evrything otu and it was all good, said the outside warps easily because its plastic and the way you have to screw them in? Not sure what of that is acccurte but.. .. SO they are deciding what to do... They *might* get a Miele... But so far another set of dish drawers looks like the choice

CLICK HERE TO GO TO exploder3211's LINK


Post# 220252 , Reply# 43   7/3/2007 at 09:19 (6,113 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

frigilux's profile picture
Chad--I know know what the problem is; there's a plastic trim strip which gets screwed into the underside of the countertop. It tends to warp a bit during long, high-temp cycles, and the top edge of the door can hit it. My dealer/installer was aware of this and put in one or two extra screws. No problem with door hitting the strip. The strip always reverts to its correct shape once the DW cools a bit after the cycle is completed.

I'm sorry to hear your friend has had bad luck with Maytag dishwashers! I just can't say enough good things about mine. I love the loading flexibility and the fantastic cleaning results. The dish drawers---or especially a Miele---will be quieter, though.


Post# 221085 , Reply# 44   7/6/2007 at 12:55 (6,110 days old) by washerfanatic ()        

As for rentals (Ellerdale Dr., Cherry Blossom and Chase and Betty Jean), they all didn't clean well, but Chase gets my nod the the WORST rental dishwasher. It's so loud, you had the blast the stereo up 6 notches to drown out the noise. Also you couldn't run it at night, for you'd stayed away till that thing hits dry cycle.

For non-rentals, we've had real bad luck with Kenmore, starting with the 1993 Kenmore MOL dishwasher. It didn't clean very well, and you had to start the machine EXACTLY on the line between Pots and Pans and Normal or it would skip several pre-rinses.

When it broke down August 17, 1997, we decided to buy another Kenmore on September 8th. Consumer reports rated it #1, as did Sears. HA! Another poor cleaner and if you place a casserole dish in front, everytime you pull the top rack out, the spray arm would catch that dish and pull out the bottom shelf. Thankfully the machines pump broke down February 27, 2005. We got the Maytag 2 rack Tall tub and installed it the following Tuesday. It cleans wonderfully. Even dried on Mac and Cheese or steak yiblets come out spotless. I like it.



Post# 221205 , Reply# 45   7/7/2007 at 12:46 (6,109 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        
I beg to differ

johnb300m's profile picture
My Chinese Haier rental dishwasher has to be the worst.
It's not as loud as the old GEs...but its fit and finish, washability and build quality and cycle programing are outrageous.

It is a horrible copy of a morphed GE/Whirlpool machine with the whirlpool style inward sparying wash arm and a GE style PowerTower.
But it doesn't wash!!!
It has NO filtration and the water jets were aimed so far inward on an angle they never touched the dishes. The outermost jets were a mere 2mm in diameter, and were clogged on the first cycle run.
In order to get marginal results, I had to drill out the outside jets, and bend the [whatever non-ferrous] metal spray jets to a more vertical angle.

It's bad guys. Haier is the worst. They didn't even try to build a "decent" machine.

On the upside, it has an American sourced GE pump and motor.


Post# 221532 , Reply# 46   7/9/2007 at 02:12 (6,108 days old) by spankomatic (Ukiah,CA)        
Maytag dishwasher

spankomatic's profile picture
I use my friends Maytag tall tub dishwasher often in their home. They got it in 2003. The motor has always made a grinding noise periodically. Not sure what that is all about. I suspect cheap plastic parts.It does clean the dishes well. Takes almost 2 hours on light wash,extra rinse,heated dry to complete the cycle. I do not care for the tall tub. It is too low to the ground. You really have to bend down for that lower rack. I also do not care for the siverware holder. I prefer a long silverware holder in the front. Not a rectangle one in the front/middle. (Just a preference). The Maytag is o.k. since it cleans well. I like Kitchenaid features and design better. I like stainless steel tubs much better than plastic.

Jim


Post# 221537 , Reply# 47   7/9/2007 at 03:28 (6,107 days old) by dj-gabriele ()        

I never seen a dishwasher with a plastic tub, even the very BOL that has been installed in my new flat is stainless steel and it has two spray arms, one for the lower rack and one for the upper rack, can you show me a photo of a single spray arm + spray cone(?) plastic tub dishwasher with the lid open? I'm very curious!
Thanks!


Post# 221545 , Reply# 48   7/9/2007 at 05:24 (6,107 days old) by appnut (TX)        
can you show me a photo of a single spray arm + spray cone(?

appnut's profile picture
See Explodeer's pictures in the thread "Is My Dishwasher Loaded Correctly". That's exactly what you're wanting to see. The "spray cone" rises from the middle of the spray arm at the bottom as a telescope through the middle of the bottom rack to shower the top rack.


Post# 223055 , Reply# 49   7/16/2007 at 11:05 (6,100 days old) by rinso (Meridian Idaho)        
GE Profile even MORE problems;

Just got word that the control panel for my 1 year old GE PDW 8200 Profile has been back ordered until 7-27. That will make nearly 2 months without a dishwasher. The darn thing is barely over a year old and has had two previous repairs. To make matters worse, even with rubber gloves I'm getting dishpan hands.

I do have the number for GE customer relations, but have not gotten through to anyone whose english language skills are adquate.


Post# 223189 , Reply# 50   7/16/2007 at 23:46 (6,100 days old) by goprog ()        

Whirlpool Quiet Wash Plus - I've only used it once, was not
happy, but could take some user training possibly.

What struck me above - 3rd comment - Roper being made by
Whirlpool in Canada and the center spray cone. That sounds
a lot like what I have. There is a center cone that looks
like it is supposed to spray water up into an upper spray
arm? (inch and a half leap of faith) Are we talking about
the same thing?


Post# 223198 , Reply# 51   7/17/2007 at 00:51 (6,100 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
Yes it is the same more than likely

Post# 223206 , Reply# 52   7/17/2007 at 01:13 (6,100 days old) by goprog ()        

It is so tough. One would like to think the BOL, MOL trash
would just go away. I have no problem with bells and whistles,
but just design them to do the job they're supposed to do first
and leave that for later.

It made me think of when I was in Moscow 10 years ago. Went to
a "grocery" store with my friend who was living there. The
shelves were practically bare and the quality was terrible -
we ended up with a chicken (or parts.)

I see a failure on both ends - though that might be comparing
apples and oranges. Food vs. "appliances". But shouldn't a
capitalist driven society strive to provide a better product
that consumers would want? As above, bells and whistles will
cost more, but shouldn't the product do the basic job is was
(supposedly) designed to do? A wellspring of products, many
of which fail to perform, is really no better in the cosmic
sense of things than a failure to provide - or some might say
it is worse because it is wasting resources that could be put
to better use for mankind.

Hmmm - I think I've just gotten too philisophical.


Post# 223207 , Reply# 53   7/17/2007 at 01:14 (6,100 days old) by goprog ()        

Sort of sorry - that should have proably been in the Sandbox
thread.


Post# 223258 , Reply# 54   7/17/2007 at 08:06 (6,099 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Goprog, I don't think your post is that out of scope for new appliances. When I was in elementary school, we were taught that one of the evils of the Soviet planned economy was that there was only one brand of anything. Here in America, we had competition. But now, things are far different. Corporations wanting to make the best for the consumer have been replaced by corporations wanting to make obscene profits for their officers and investors. Many corporations have refused to invest money in plant modernization because they are planning to send manufacturing outside the country. They have squandeered money buying up other companies that are in trouble for the same reason. It is sad that this is encouraged by tax policies. And Detroit is still screaming that meeting 30 mpg fuel efficiency standards will cost them too much money, but they spend millions lobbying Congress to vote against the standards instead of on research to make better products. It is sort of a shame that appliance manufacturers have been so quick to bow to the stupidity of some of the "energy saving" demands of bureaucrats who test dishwasher performance with clean dishes. As long as corrupt politicians give corporations incentives to dodge taxes and send American jobs abroad, this is what we will have to expect. Unfortunately, when all of this catches up with the country, the ones with lots of ill-gotten money will still avoid most of the mess they have made for the rest of us.

Post# 223391 , Reply# 55   7/17/2007 at 18:01 (6,099 days old) by rolls_rapide (.)        
Dj-Gabriele

I don't know about Italy, but in the UK you can purchase a hybrid plastic and stainless steel dishwasher. It is the bottom of the range Bosch 'Classixx', model SGS-45-C-02-GB.

The tub walls, and ceiling are stainless steel; the tub floor is "Polinox".

Looking at the latest Bosch brochure, there only seems to be the one hybrid model; all the rest are stainless steel.



Post# 223393 , Reply# 56   7/17/2007 at 18:11 (6,099 days old) by goprog ()        

Tomturbomatic

EXACTLY the way I see it! I'm not alone!


Post# 223521 , Reply# 57   7/18/2007 at 10:30 (6,098 days old) by bwoods ()        

The biggest variable, that I have found, in dishwasher performance is soft water. The biggest culprit in the "hardness" is calcium carbonate. With a properly sized water softener, hardness is reduced to near zero grains.


I've noticed even mediocre dishwashers will generally perform well with an enzyme detergent, and water is of the right temp and soft. Calcium carbonate hinders detergents ability to hold food particles in suspension, and may leave calcite deposits on the dishes and machine.


I am to dishwashers, what Rob (Unimatic1140) is to washing machines. My hobby (unfortunately to my pocketbook) is to buy dishwashers and performance test them. Both new, sometimes, and used ones from thrift stores, people's curbside trash, etc.

Unfortunately, I don't have space, like Rob, does to ever keep more than two or three in stock at any one time and have a little mini-museum.

Since I live by myself (if you don't count three cats)I only run the machine once to twice a week. By the end of the week the dishes are pretty sad with dried oatmeal, dried cat food, residual gravy. cole slaw, etc. So I give the machines a pretty good shake-down.


My favorite machines thus far:

Late 1980's Maytag with the reverse rack loading (plates on top rack, glasses on lower), and a hard food waste disposer. Great scrub-ability and the hard food waste disposer gobbles up cat food, thin noodles, etc. Except for bones, you really don't need to scrape...just tilt off big items and load.

Whirpools and Kenmore also do a nice job of gobbling up garbage.

As far as shine factor, I have a 1999 Frigidaire, that on the Pots&Pans cycle, has four final rinses. I've had so many dishwashers that I am jaded and it's hard to impress me. But nothing has ever made dishes literally shine and sparkle like the Frigidaire. Older dishes even look new when they come out. But the down side...scrubability is somewhat less than Whirlpool and Maytag. Burned on foods don't come off as well. Large fried egg whites and big noodles can't make it through the small grid openings and sometimes a few remnants are left in the grate.


The winner for overall "maybe not great at any one thing, but overall good at everything" award goes to older GE's (models with the center tower, self-cleaning filter in the back bottom of the tub, and soft food waste disposer.)

The old GSD1200 with the multi-orbit wash arm was a fun machine. It had three rinses and even did even slightly better than the classic GSD2800 electronic, which had only two final rinses, as far as the shine factor. (I believe GE added a third rinse in 1993 when they went from the GSD 2800G to the GSD2800L model with the new control panel.)

BTW...Those of you with the tower GE/Hotpoints. Don't you find the sound of the machine soothing?

Noisy dishwashers get on my nerves. Something about the tower GE's. they are not overly quiet, but the continuous wishwashing sound is somehow comforting and familiar. Good to turn on right before you go to bed, it kinda of lulls you to sleep. :-)















Post# 223545 , Reply# 58   7/18/2007 at 14:04 (6,098 days old) by gadgetgary (Bristol,CT)        
GSD2800L003

gadgetgary's profile picture
That is the model that I have. Can you tell me a little bit more about the improvements? Control panel? Racking? Extra rinse?



Post# 223550 , Reply# 59   7/18/2007 at 14:26 (6,098 days old) by bwoods ()        
GSD2800

Gary,

I am apparently a little off on the "L" suffix. You have one of the later "classic" 2800's. I believe they were in production (approximately 1982 - 1992). For the last year of production they went to totally different control panel, flat front with the touchpads running in a straight line on the left side.

I don't recall any changes in racking, but they added an additional final rinse and took off some of the diagnostics. On your machine, the "Extra rinse" "option increases the final rinse time about five minutes, but does not do an additional water change.


The washability of your model is good, but it went up a little when they added the extra fill rinse.

I've had two 2800's like yours and the newer replacement(I think it was the 1993 or maybe the 1994 model) just didn't have the heart and soul that your model does, even if it did rinse a little better.

GE never made a model with more diagnostics that the 2800. The "blocked wash arm" alarm has saved me many times from having a load of dishes come out dirty because something has fallen or stuck down from the lower rack and kept the arm from rotating.

The "detergent cup open", "low water temperature" and "blocked drain" alarms were pretty unique to the 2800 also.

Its a great machine, hang onto it!

Barry





Post# 223553 , Reply# 60   7/18/2007 at 14:41 (6,098 days old) by gadgetgary (Bristol,CT)        
My brother has the same dw in his kitchen

gadgetgary's profile picture
Installed in 1986 and still going strong. His racks are blue. The racks in mine are white. I picked up my 2800 from Ebay a few years ago. In 1992, I sold my GE 2800 to a relative and replaced it with my KUDS22 series dw which is still in my kitchen. I missed my GE 2800 a lot, and decided to get another one and use that in my rec room downstairs.

Here is my daily driver:


Post# 223581 , Reply# 61   7/18/2007 at 18:26 (6,098 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        
why?

johnb300m's profile picture
why do companies no longer make cool computerized dishwashers? no more sensors and diagnostics?
Everyone's hell bent on hiding the controls now, I want a cool computerized dishwasher with a vacuum fluorescent display.
Something like that GE 2800 but with the wash system of a Maytag.

THAT would be cool :-)

BWT, attn: I'm moving into a new apartment in a week or so. This means NEW DISHWASHER, and no more shitty HAIER.

It's a Frigidaire 1510 with the 5 level wash. I can't wait! Tower wash sucks!


Post# 223798 , Reply# 62   7/19/2007 at 17:36 (6,097 days old) by rolls_rapide (.)        
johnb300m

I know what you mean about lack of innovation.

I discovered that Hoover/Candy sell dishwashers in France and Italy that are the top-line models, with sensors and liquid-crystal displays. (The HOD-9 and HOD-8 models).

The top model from Hoover in the UK, seems to be a mid-range model for the other countries!!! (HOD-7... and HOD-6...).

This really pisses me off.

And yet, you can find a company such as Bosch, who makes their range available to virtually all countries.

Companies like Hoover/Candy deserve to be washed down the plughole.


Post# 226807 , Reply# 63   8/1/2007 at 18:15 (6,084 days old) by goprog ()        

Friend's kitchen "flooded" last night. She has used the new
Frigidaire dishwasher in her apartment (after the previous
Frigidaire was replaced) 6 times. Model FDB130RGS1. I didn't
get details - seemed she was saying something about the center
pop-up cone. I opened it up an hour ago - thick piece of
cardboard might feel stronger than the door did. It is a BOL
model - very few options. Search came up with prices anywhere
from $199 - $349 on the net. Hmmm.


Post# 227327 , Reply# 64   8/3/2007 at 11:23 (6,082 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

The older GE dws used a bunch of water changes because the pump retained several cups of water each time it drained because of the small impeller, large discharge opening & large housing. When the drain valve opened, there was a rush of water, but once the level dropped below the top of the pump chamber, the water was not pumped out. Later, GE, to get by with fewer water changes, put an auxillary drain pump in that was activated twice, after the main wash and one of the rinses. A little hose ran from the bottom of the main pump to this little pump and it sucked the chamber dry so that several cups of water from the previous portion of the cycle were not left behind to mess up the new water in the next portion of the cycle.

Post# 227438 , Reply# 65   8/3/2007 at 22:33 (6,082 days old) by lasvegasrox ()        

what about this dishwasher a maytag

Post# 227456 , Reply# 66   8/3/2007 at 23:38 (6,082 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        

johnb300m's profile picture
those were good Maytags weren't they???

Post# 227460 , Reply# 67   8/4/2007 at 00:04 (6,082 days old) by lasvegasrox ()        
yah

the maytag would sense the presence of detergent,water temp,how fast the wash arm was spinning and of course soil level,,,they only had smart start,sani wash,quick wash,and rinse and hold for the options it has delicate wash,heated dry,cancel,child lock.much like the 2800 it would say blocked wash arm or drain that bolth beep and if suds were slowing the arm down it said wash arm,HEATING while heating water,locked,plus a low rinse aid light,and rinsed after the rinse and hold,and delay just too name a fiew

Post# 227645 , Reply# 68   8/4/2007 at 15:13 (6,081 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        

johnb300m's profile picture
why do they not bother putting those neat computerized features in dishwashers anymore? Everything, even the top of the line stuff is all just push pads and MAYBE a few LEDs. Now you never have any idea where the cycle is or how long or what the machine's status is.
When we got our Triton XL in 2003, I grabbed the GSD6660, because it was one of the few upper line machines that still specified SENSING, WASHING, RINSING, DRYING, CLEAN, SANITIZED.
All other machines mostly don't tell you that stuff anymore.

WHY NOT?
Do people really not care what goes on in the box anymore?


Post# 227658 , Reply# 69   8/4/2007 at 15:58 (6,081 days old) by washerfanatic ()        
I know...

This is why we went with the MDB7600AWB TOL Maytag in 2/28/05. It tells you how long the cycle will continue on a digital display. Even the old Kenmore from 9/8/97 had a display. I want to see exactly how long we are in the cycle and what mode it's in.

Post# 227664 , Reply# 70   8/4/2007 at 16:36 (6,081 days old) by mrcleanjeans (milwaukee wi)        
Kenidaire scare

the BOL Kenmore,made by Frigidaire with the pop-up wash tower is far and away the WORST dishwasher I've ever used.It may as well pee on the dishes with its weak wimpy pump.

Post# 227678 , Reply# 71   8/4/2007 at 17:53 (6,081 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
Many manufacturers offer high-tech dishwashers.

AEG/Electrolux sells a dishwasher with LC-display, interior light, stainless steel racks,... They also have a 90 cm wide dishwasher with one rack (and a small rack for cups).

In Europe, Miele sells its improved LaPerla that, for example, will automatically open the door at the end of the cycle. It can also lock the door itself, has variable spray pressure, sensor-controlled drying and water-softening and a Turbo option.

Gorenje offers most of its TOL appliances with animated touch screen controls - unfortunately, they don't have TOL dishwashers.

Asko's TOL dishwashers is practically fully programmable: Super Rinse, Cool Touch, 3 drying levels, Express option. The DW allows you to individually set the temp (there are 9 to choose from) on almost every cycle. You can store custom cycles or let the machine perform a Mixed Wash with high-pressure in the lower and low pressure in the upper rack. There's also a sensor-controlled drying cycle and an interior light.

Blomberg TOL dishwasher with LC-display offers a Mix cycle that'll wash both baskets until the temp reaches 110°. It then turns the upper spray arm off, increases pressure by 60% and continues to wash pot & pans at 170°F.

Bosch/Siemens dishwashers have up to three Auto Wash cycles, a soil sensor that'll automatically adjust spray pressure (it even changes for different steps in the cycle) and a VarioSpeed option to cut the cycle time by 50%. A heat exchanger pre-heats the water prior to each water change. A high-resolution LC-display will tell you what's going on inside the machine: whether it's checking the sensor, washing at high pressure, sanitizing or whether the glass care system or heat exchanger are activated.

For the above machines, water consumption ranges from 9 to 14 liters (on the energy-label cycle), noise levels range from 40 to 44 dB. You can choose from 8 to 16 cycles - excluding all those extra options available. The Miele and B/S/H dishwashers can even be remote-controlled - even via cell phone.

Granted, many of these premium features carry a premium price tag...

Alex


CLICK HERE TO GO TO logixx's LINK


Post# 227746 , Reply# 72   8/4/2007 at 22:13 (6,081 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        

johnb300m's profile picture
very little, if any of that, Alex, is available in the United States anymore.

Post# 228115 , Reply# 73   8/6/2007 at 15:20 (6,079 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
Well, some of these machine are also available in the US.

ASKO: www.askousa.com/dishwashers/model...

B/S/H: www.boschappliances.com/product69...

The Miele G2831SCi is actually pretty similar to the LaPerla - except for some software and mechanical updates.

Blomberg (international site): www.blomberginternational.com/en/...


Post# 803354 , Reply# 74   1/10/2015 at 23:30 (3,365 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
award goes to...

the award goes to... the new whirlpool dishwashers with resource saver! Weak pumps, low temps even on the so-called high-temp wash, 7 hour cycles about a workday or nights sleep, stupid filters and worst of all the alternating spray arms! UGH!


Forum Index:       Other Forums:                      



Comes to the Rescue!

The Discuss-o-Mat has stopped, buzzer is sounding!!!
If you would like to reply to this thread please log-in...

Discuss-O-MAT Log-In



New Members
Click Here To Sign Up.



                     


automaticwasher.org home
Discuss-o-Mat Forums
Vintage Brochures, Service and Owners Manuals
Fun Vintage Washer Ephemera
See It Wash!
Video Downloads
Audio Downloads
Picture of the Day
Patent of the Day
Photos of our Collections
The Old Aberdeen Farm
Vintage Service Manuals
Vintage washer/dryer/dishwasher to sell?
Technical/service questions?
Looking for Parts?
Website related questions?
Digital Millennium Copyright Act Policy
Our Privacy Policy