Thread Number: 13180
Washer capacity question... 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 228590   8/8/2007 at 11:18 (6,098 days old) by brasilianguy ()        

Hello everybody... i have a question (well, in truth is a curiosity) about the cabrio's capacity...... here in Brazil, like in europe we measure the washer capacity in Kg, or pounds! but there in USA you measure it in Cubic Feet... so, my question is: how many pounds or Kg a 4.5 cubic feet washer like the Cabrio can wash??




Post# 228591 , Reply# 1   8/8/2007 at 11:20 (6,098 days old) by brasilianguy ()        

Ah, i forget to ask too.... is the Cabrio washer the biggest domestic washer in the world?? if not, what is??

Post# 228596 , Reply# 2   8/8/2007 at 11:46 (6,098 days old) by sudsman ()        
in commerial machines (always front loaders)

 6 lbs pre cubic foot is the avg. used for loading.. I dont really know about a top load machine however..

Post# 228602 , Reply# 3   8/8/2007 at 11:56 (6,098 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
According to the service manual the Cabrio (without agitator) can handle 18 lbs. or 8.16 Kg of laundry. What's interesting about the pretty much identical AquaSmart washer by Fisher & Paykel:

"AquaSmart™ offers a generous 15.5 lb (7 kg) capacity." (New Zealand manual)

"AQUASMART™ offers a generous 8 kg capacity." (USA/Canada manual)

Maybe the American versions have different software to accommodate a bigger load. At least that's how they often do it in Europe: increase the wash time and call it "Extra Capacity"...

Alex

Post# 228695 , Reply# 4   8/8/2007 at 16:59 (6,098 days old) by dj-gabriele ()        

According to Indesit:

5 kg clothes = 45 litres in drum volume

45 litres = 1,6 cubic feet

but... remember that front loaders can be stuffed with clothes while TL shouldn't

For dryers the thing changes:

now 6 kg of clothes = 116 litres of volume

116 litres = 4,1 cubic feet

this because drying stuff must be able to float around and fluff otherwise they get wrinkled. This is why combos usually can only dry half a load (with exceptions, Candy is one of those, a 5+5 kg machine with a 100 and more litres drum!)

Post# 228713 , Reply# 5   8/8/2007 at 17:29 (6,098 days old) by mrx ()        

European front loaders are getting massively more capacious. The days of 5kg (11lb) machines are long gone.

Most manufacturers now sell machines (in standard cabinet size) which take
5kg (11lbs)
6kg (13.2 lbs)
7kg (15.4lbs)
8kg (17.6lbs)
9kg (just shy of 20lbs!!) - Only one I know of is the Hoover VisionHD 9 (linked below)

Wonderfully spec'd machine, with a 1600rpm spin, powejet wash action etc. However, I am just not 100% sure about Candy/Hoover's built quality and would possibly opt for a Zanussi 8Kg 1400 rpm spin instead.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO mrx's LINK
Post# 228743 , Reply# 6   8/8/2007 at 18:40 (6,098 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        
The Aquasmart is

Rated at 8kg in AU.

From Memory, Miele suggest about 10L of volume for each kg of capacity, in a FL machine.

The problem when applying this system to a toploader that you cant pack full, is that 8kg of lace would require a lot more volume than 8kg of denim.

Post# 228953 , Reply# 7   8/9/2007 at 09:25 (6,097 days old) by brasilianguy ()        

Oh, i can't believe that the Cabrio, that i tought was the biggest domestic TL washer can handle only 18 lbs. or 8.16 Kg of laundry!! I've already seen an washer, branded MABE (the manufacturer of GE) that handles unbelievable 14Kg or 30.8lbs! i'm posting a link to show it (but is in spanish, couse the page is fron mexico). well, can be that they measure the capacity diferently!

CLICK HERE TO GO TO brasilianguy's LINK
Post# 228955 , Reply# 8   8/9/2007 at 09:37 (6,097 days old) by funguy10 ()        

The Cabrio is the Whirlpool version of the Kenmore Oasis and the Oasis has 4.5 ft "Canyon Capacity".

Post# 229122 , Reply# 9   8/9/2007 at 20:52 (6,097 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        

toggleswitch's profile picture
Solcia/Brasilianguy. May we have your link again (not working now). I'm very curious!

Thank you!

Post# 229123 , Reply# 10   8/9/2007 at 20:55 (6,097 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        

toggleswitch's profile picture
Most manufacturers now sell machines (in standard cabinet size) which take ............9kg (just shy of 20lbs!!)

How did the capacity nearly doubel with the outer cabinet the same?

Did the machines become deeper than 60cm deep x 60cm wide (24" x 24")?

I believe this is how Miele achieved larger capactity, at firs.t

Post# 229214 , Reply# 11   8/10/2007 at 02:08 (6,097 days old) by askomiele (Belgium Ghent)        

Wrong thing about us thinking that washers where alsways standard 60x60cm (or 24x24"). Washer had mostly a countertop that was 60x60 but the machine it self was less deeper than the countertop. So there was/is still extra space inside the cabinet. And if you make the drum larger by making wider instead of deeper, you don't need much cabinet space at all...
Or am I completly wrong....

Post# 229228 , Reply# 12   8/10/2007 at 08:20 (6,097 days old) by brasilianguy ()        

ok..... i'm gonna send the home page link.... so, there you click in "Productos" and them "Lavadoras Automaticas"

CLICK HERE TO GO TO brasilianguy's LINK
Post# 229353 , Reply# 13   8/10/2007 at 14:20 (6,096 days old) by mrx ()        

Well, if you slightly increase the diameter of the drum, you get a substantial increase in capacity.

Some machines use tilted drums, so you get a deeper drum into a cabinet by mounting it at a slight angle, using the height of the cabinet to accommodate the depth of the drum

You can make much better use of the cabinet space by slightly rearranging the components. Also, a re-designed outer tub, and suspension system along with use of newer materials like composites in.

If you consider that you can get a pretty decent sized drum into a standard European size tumble dryer, then apply that to a washer, you've pretty big capacity.

The 9KG Hoover Vision occupies : 85x60x60cm
The 8.5KG Hotpoint Extendia (link below) is pretty ugly though!

CLICK HERE TO GO TO mrx's LINK
Post# 229657 , Reply# 14   8/11/2007 at 17:19 (6,095 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        
What is the actual Drum Volume

 In the Hoover, what is the actual drum volume to attain 9kg?

An 80-90L drum wouldnt leave much room in the cabinet for OOB situations.

LG and Whirlpool are big on overhyping their drum capacities over here. Their 7 and 8kg models hold far less than my 5.5kg Miele does.

Post# 229932 , Reply# 15   8/12/2007 at 16:15 (6,094 days old) by kirk280980 ()        

The 1:10 loading ratio, as well as being the method Miele uses to calculate drum capacity, also seems to be the standard used by many commercial washer manufacturers too. Hoover obviously doesn't agree with this, because the machine shown above (which claims to wash a 9kg load) has an actual drum volume of just 65 litres.

Not saying who I'd rather believe, although you can probably guess. One thing's for sure though, you can increase the capacity of ANY machine just by squeezing far too much laundry into it. That doesn't make it genuinely bigger though, just overloaded!

Post# 229995 , Reply# 16   8/12/2007 at 19:40 (6,094 days old) by earthling177 (Boston, MA)        

Years ago the advice to mechanical engineers who were supposed to be designing machines was that the washer basket should be 15 liters per kilo of dry clothes if it was a toploading washer and 10 liters per kilo of dry clothes for a frontloading washer.

Then things started to change, and lots of frontloaders who claimed a higher efficiency and better cleaning started coming out with 45-liter drums for 5 kg of clothes, as seen everywhere. And toploaders with as little as 12 liters per kilo came out. That doesn't mean necessarily that the washers wash any worse than the old standby, but it can certainly mean they are not as gentle. Complaints about clothes not lasting as long have been heard for both kinds of machines.

There are good and bad reasons to pick either volume or weight as a yardstick to compare machines.

If you pick weight, then you are more likely to compare actual performance and you allow for machines that become more efficient at the task even if the drums are smaller.

If you pick volume, then you are more likely to see that manufacturers claiming to wash outrageous amounts of clothes in a smallish drum are lying.

Neither is a good guarantee that you will spot the lie. Notice that the "efficient" machines have only one liter less per kilo than the standard ones: 45 l / 5 kg = 9 instead of 10. And there are plenty of top-loading washers that *look* like the basket is huuuge and they certainly claim the full capacity, but when you read the instructions, they say something along the lines of "load up to the top line of holes in the basket" or "until the clothes reach the holes the softener comes out of in the agitator" which in any case is several inches lower than the top of the basket and makes them wash way less than competing machines with supposedly smaller capacities.

And even when the machines are supposedly identical -- years ago, Consumer Reports tested two "identical" machines from White-Westinghouse, one was sold under the Frigidaire label, the other under the Westinghouse label. One had a straight vaned agitator, the other one a spiral agitator, if memory serves me right. When tested for proper clothes rollover, one of them washed 14 pounds and the other something like 10 or 12. They were both labeled, of course, "extra-large capacity, mumble-mumble cubic feet".

The sad truth is that consumers should be informed of *both* how many kilos/pounds of clothes the machines can effectively *clean* and how much *usable* capacity they have -- it makes very little sense that a comforter that can stuff a washer to the gills may actually weigh half of the load the machine can clean when it's a full-load of cottons, for example. It's perfectly possible to have a washer that can actually *clean* and *rinse* a full load of 6kg/13lbs of cottons and can't deal with a 3kg queen-sized comforter.

For that matter, consumers should also be informed of how well a machine *rinses* and spins too. People are catching up on the spin issue, altho mostly we discuss how fast they spin, not how dry the clothes are at the end of the cycle. And I find that too many machines still rinse so poorly that many people who are told by their doctors/dermatologists about how they have to use detergents with no scents and/or enzymes or avoid fabric softeners at all costs are just sick because their washers can't rinse. I lost count of the number of people who claim to have skin problems I helped by just washing their stuff on hot water with top-of-the-line detergents, rinsed the clothes well and then put fabric softener (just enough, not fill the cap until it overflows) on the last rinse. Their skin cleared up pronto. They were just wearing poorly washed and poorly rinsed clothes, which made their skin flare up.

But we're not set up for measuring performance, that is actual *work* that only people who *like* washers and/or laundry will pay attention to. The "energy" labels just come from some poor person employed by a government agency that really doesn't care that much (even if the employee themselves did care) and all they want is a "standard". Which doesn't really tell us how well things perform, they just spit a number or a few numbers. Just look at the washers which get an EnergyStar label but wash with less than 60C/140F for a "hot" wash -- people with real allergies to stuff like dust mites will have a hell of a time with clothes washed in warmish water. Do you think the manufacturers care if the clothes are clean or rinsed if they can get the EnergyStar label? I have a bridge to sell you then. Also, to pile on top of that pile, I'm not sure if they fixed it yet, but the EnergyStar labels for dishwashers were given based on a test that ran the dishwashers with *clean* dishes (hey, at least they *loaded* the machines, it could be worse, they could have run them empty), so the machines get an EnergyStar label and then, when you run them at home, if they have a sensor to see if the dishes are dirty/clean, they use way more water and energy. Also, at least one manufacturer of dishwashers in US chose to "save" water (and thus energy) by providing only one rinse. It may work just fine for water that is hard or medium hardness, but for people like me that had soft water, it didn't rinse enough, so the dishes got etched. Users had to select the pots-n-pans cycle to get more rinses, so the energy efficiency was lower than other machines that had no EnergyStar labels. Yuck.

Until we have real tests that closely mimic real-life situations, and better standards, I would trust a friend's recommendation over any manufacturer's claims or energy labels. Don't take those capacity claims too seriously until you've seen the machines run, is what I say. YMMV.

Post# 230047 , Reply# 17   8/12/2007 at 21:51 (6,094 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Speaking of Basket Size

 launderess's profile picture
It was posted over on THS, that the new uber Miele washing machines sold in the US, instruct users to only fill the drum three-quarters full. So even though these machines are supposed to hold more than say a standard Miele, that is not really so, since one cannot "pack the drum", the way one can with other Miele units. While such tricks would'nt surprise me with some other washer makers, am rather taken aback by Miele, since they have commercial units that hold massive amounts and can be filled tight.

Post# 230100 , Reply# 18   8/13/2007 at 03:53 (6,094 days old) by askomiele (Belgium Ghent)        

The general rule to fill a frontloader is to fill it loosly and not pack the load and just fill it untill you can put your fist between the clothes and the upperside of the drum. I never read the manual so closely I just hook up fill and let it wash...

Post# 230115 , Reply# 19   8/13/2007 at 04:58 (6,094 days old) by mrx ()        

It's all about marketing. There's definitely a perception in the US that machine must be large and splashy to have a big capacity. While, I think in Europe we're more fixated on making sure the machine is the right size to fit under a counter in a kitchen / laundry room into a standard "Euro cabinet slot". Hence in the US you're getting monsters that don't really have THAT spectacular a load capacity as they're not able to be fully stuffed. While, in Europe we're now getting monster capacities i.e 8 and 9kg into a standard cabinet and achieving excellent washing results with clever engineering. - It's entirely down to market expectation. When the big machines i.e. the likes of some of the Bosch models and the LG Tromms launched here they were niche market as people didn't like the idea of a non-standard shape machine. However, when the big capacity standards arrived, they sold like hot cakes!

While some new FL machines can be a little harsher than their predecessors, I would worry more about the agitator machines that are being tweaked to use very little water. A front loader can only tumble the clothes around, while an agitator machine can cause a lot more friction as it's actually moving the clothes against other surfaces / against themselves.

The wash action in a front loader is generally one of moving the clothes through a small amount of water, rather than actually agitating them too much at all. Hence, on a long european style wash you can pack the drum tight and the clothes will come out very clean as they've had detergent laden water passing through them. Rinsing is done the same way.

However, on a low-water agitator based machine, you're using direct force on the clothes i.e. physically turning/twisting them. Older toploaders both with agitators (US Style) or wash plates (Asian style) or old European-style machines like Hoovermatic all used the 'active water' concept. i.e. you fill a large tub with water and create turbulence. The water was then forced through the clothes and there wouldn't have been THAT much wear and tear on the actual fabrics.

In newer top loaders, the water volume's drastically reduced, which seems to expose the clothes to much more mechanical action. I would have serious concerns that these machines, over long periods of use, would do a lot more damage to fabric.

There's no question but, TLs do produce a lot more lint than FL (at least European FL anyway). E.g. I washed shirts and towels and a general mixed wash in a Whirlpool TL in the US and the shirts came out covered in lint. While, I could do that in a European FL without any issue. The action is simply not harsh enough to dislodge much lint from the towels.

Post# 230566 , Reply# 20   8/14/2007 at 21:44 (6,092 days old) by mielew4840 ()        
largest capacity

 I always thought this LG Tromm is the biggest washer. 3.8 0cubic feet. I once saw it at the local shop. It holds about 10kg

Post# 230614 , Reply# 21   8/15/2007 at 02:31 (6,092 days old) by lederstiefel1 ()        
mieleW4840

 Here in Leverkusen-Opladen we have a laundrette where I sometimes bring some work-cloths to be washed for our company. The owner bought already two of these machines and is absolutely content with them!

Ralf

Post# 230686 , Reply# 22   8/15/2007 at 12:42 (6,091 days old) by maytagbear (N.E. Ohio)        
I've always loved

 the control panel of that LG, but it came out long after I had my Dependable Care set, and have room for only one washer...oh, well.


Lawrence/Maytagbear


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