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Thread Number: 13503
New Tall Tub KitchenAid Dishwashers.. "To Clean or not Clean enough"? |
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Post# 233071 , Reply# 2 8/26/2007 at 22:30 (6,080 days old) by peteski50  (New York) |
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New Tall Tub KitchenAid Dishwashers | ||
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Post# 233125 , Reply# 3 8/27/2007 at 07:10 (6,080 days old) by countryguy (Astorville, ON, Canada) |
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Stevet, Your reference to 'countryboy' I am assuming was in reference to me 'countryguy' :-) No longer a boy, all grown up now! LOL Anyway, I did indeed purchase a new tall tub Kitchenaid and so far I am very pleased with it. I have done several heavily soiled loads with racks full both in the top and bottom and everything has come out spotless. I even put the roast pan in last night, used the normal cycle with proscrub turned on and it came out clean. The cycle was about 2 hours including dry time. Gary | ||
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Post# 233154 , Reply# 6 8/27/2007 at 09:24 (6,080 days old) by peteski50 (New York) |
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Tall Tub | ||
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Post# 233323 , Reply# 9 8/27/2007 at 21:53 (6,079 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
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~Bottom Line in my own thoughts....I think that the machines that are cleaning well, are using more water. Imagine. What a concept! I bet Uncle Sam never figured some of use would COVET machines that are water-hogs. So much for the INTENDED purpose of those yellow gov't energy-saver labels (White in Canada). | ||
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Post# 233326 , Reply# 10 8/27/2007 at 21:57 (6,079 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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People want "Energy Star" but fail to do the math in terms of matching performace with energy savings, if any. If dishes have to go through an extra cycle, laundry washed twice or some such, where is the savings in that? There is no getting around the fact that to wash dishes and laundry one needs a certian amount of water. You don't hear about "Energy Star" commercial units, or if they do exist not causing the amount of problems domestic consumers seem to have. Why? Because commercial units have to perform for if nothing else for the sake of public health. Being as all this may, our 18" Kenmore (built by Frigidaire) portable does a decent enough job with two washes and one rinse for the normal cycle. Used to reset the dial for a second rinse, but found it made no difference in terms of cleaning results, nor was the wash water any cleaner after the second rinse. Our machine does purge/rinse the sump/drain/filter between the pre-wash and main wash,then again before the rinse. L. | ||
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Post# 233351 , Reply# 12 8/27/2007 at 22:56 (6,079 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Far as I understand, EnergyStar ratings are based on the Normal cycle with default options, for both washers & dishwashers. Configuring a very low-resource "normal" cycle then providing options to beef-up the performance is likely an easy way to get EnergyStar qualification, but consumers likely aren't aware of it. The typical user doesn't read the instruction manual, isn't aware of the options and what they do.
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Post# 233366 , Reply# 13 8/27/2007 at 23:36 (6,079 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Yeahbut
To be fair, when one chooses "Normal" wash cycle for dishes or laundry, don't want to bother having to go through hoops to get good results. This is one reason am simply not interested in the cheap tat they sell as appliances nowadays. Will keep my vintage stuff working for long as possible even if one has to tramp up and down Europe for parts. Am seriously considering latching onto a vintage Hobart/KA dishwasher, but it would have to be portable and not sure if the full 24" model would fit. | ||
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Post# 233372 , Reply# 14 8/28/2007 at 00:09 (6,079 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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I did a stuffed BobLoad in the elite tonght, Smart Wash. It did a full 1st rinse rather than purge and heated main wash water to 140. I did a load yesterdy afternoon that was pretty "clean" for me. It sensed harly any soil and went from pre-wash to main wash without drainig. The main wash was 20 minutes long, water at 115 or 120, which was fine with me since it was a 'clean" load basically--had done a rinse&hold the night before. I don't hit the sani-rinse option until it begins filling for the final rinse. The "clean load" finished in 104 minutes with the sani-heat and the 30 minutes for heated dry.
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Post# 233531 , Reply# 18 8/28/2007 at 15:11 (6,078 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia) |
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How much water do the new KA machines use? I've got a Miele that can do a full R-W-R-R cycle with 13 -19 litres (3-4 gals) of water on a sensor wash. Do the KA machines use even less than that? | ||
| Post# 233613 , Reply# 19 8/28/2007 at 23:48 (6,078 days old) by brent-aucoin () | ||
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Tom, Interesting Information! Andrew, so sorry! SUCKS! Brent | ||
| Post# 233692 , Reply# 21 8/29/2007 at 09:14 (6,078 days old) by brent-aucoin () | ||
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Andrew, Sorry, I meant to say Marc in stead of your name. Sucks that he is having such a tough time with Kitchenaid and his dishwasher troubles. Sucks about your GE gas cooktop though..... And by the way...I am very scared of GE fairies. Brent | ||
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Post# 233763 , Reply# 23 8/29/2007 at 15:03 (6,077 days old) by jamiel (Detroit, Michigan and Palm Springs, CA) |
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Very interesting...my parents have a TT Kenmore (with sensor) which doesn't seem to work very well IMHO but I've got a roughly 3 year-old non-TT Whirlpool (also with sensor) which works GREAT... I rinse much less than they do and the only things which need a go-back are wooden spoons and utensils (I'm not absolutely convinced that in-the-door is perfect for silverware etc) and a 13" saucier in which I make a frittata (i.e. stuck on eggs) which barely fits and doesn't get too clean. My folks have had bad luck with dishwashers...I remember a James back in the 1967 timeframe which was acquired from my great-grandmother (thought it was so cool that the d/w was named after me...this was just at the time I was learning to read, then a 2 cycle Sears portable which my dad and I converted to permanent installation but left on the cabinet (I could take it apart in nothing flat---we seemed to drop milk caps into it, and there was no filtering--only a macerator...we replaced the motor 1x in 10 years), then moved to a house with a built in Youngstown 30" (what a POS...we replaced it within the 1st month we were there...the house was built in 1957 with a full Youngstown kitchen which had been veneered with Formica...still had original Tappan/Youngstown 36" cooktop). My dad and I replaced with a Kitchenaid Imperial(this was the 1st year of the 3 level wash...also a POS which lasted <10 years). We had to order the side panel separately. They redid the kitchen in 1987 and put in the GE 1200 (I think--mechanical, but with the good upper rack and filtering system).
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| Post# 233796 , Reply# 24 8/29/2007 at 17:35 (6,077 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago) | ||
sounds like WP Corp. needs a lawsuit against them for the KA brand. What's taking so long? If KA wants to use such little water. Then what they need to do is split up the spray feed. They'll need to run the lower and upper spray arms separately just like Frigidaire. Our apartment's Frigidaire uses just 1 gallon per fill, and alternates the spray arms. It does wash quite well. It's no potscrubber, but it works. We too have a GE tall tub from 2003 and it is great. I'm not sure how they're able to do it, but the lightest sensed Normal wash in our GE Triton XL is a W-R-R-R and uses just 5 gallons of water and takes 47 minutes, sans the heat dry. I think that's pretty damn good. | ||
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Post# 233802 , Reply# 25 8/29/2007 at 18:08 (6,077 days old) by peteski50 (New York) |
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KitchenAid / GE
I have the GE tall tub also. On normal it will do w r r r but if it has heavier soil it will do 1 or 2 prewashes first. I can also use the prewash option if I choose and even if the sensor says it doesn't need a prewash 2 are given with the prewash option. I usually just use added heat option if the dishes are very dirty. That gives a sani rinse. As for KitchenAid it is sad it is not still made by hobart What happened to them is almost as bad but not quite as bad as what WCI did to Frigidaire. Peter | ||
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Post# 233846 , Reply# 27 8/29/2007 at 20:15 (6,077 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Post# 234098 , Reply# 29 8/30/2007 at 19:34 (6,076 days old) by re563 (Fort Worth, Texas) |
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Well, for me, it's very dishearting to hear such things about a Kitchenaid. I guess like many here, years ago Kitchenaid was the BEST to buy. Now...... Anyway I remember an advertising blitz years ago on TV that showed women trying to load their dishwashers, with their frinds in the kitchen saying "should have bought a KitchenAid". I guess now it should be "should have bought a Bosch". My Bosch uses 4.4 gal on a minimum sensed level(which is what is senses on most loads) which consist of Purge, w,r,r. When I put turly nasty things in and select regular wash it will do Purge, r,r,w,r,r and only uses 7.8 gals. Everything always comes out gleaming and spotless. When this thread started I got to thinking, I want a kitchenaid. Now I'm truly glad I have my Bosch.
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Post# 234204 , Reply# 30 8/31/2007 at 07:31 (6,076 days old) by countryguy (Astorville, ON, Canada) |
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I have not had any problems with the new KitchenAid I just bought. Everything so far has come out spotless and believe me I have put in some real dirty dishes, casseroles, etc. - all with no pre-rinsing. And most of the time the dishes sit for a day or 2 unless there is a full load to be washed. Did I just luck out with my Kitchen Aid. Gary | ||
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Post# 234263 , Reply# 32 8/31/2007 at 12:46 (6,076 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Dishwasher Electric Usage
Electric consumption by the machine's pump motor, solenoids, electronic controls and such may not be as much as one would assume or expect. I connected my DishDrawer to RJ's Kill-A-Watt a couple days ago, ran a Normal (non-Eco) cycle. I dropped the household water heater to 70°F to insure "cold" water to the dishwasher so it had to fully heat the water. Target temps are 140°F for the main wash, 150°F for the final rinse. Total usage on the meter was less than 0.6 KWH. It's not 100% accurate because 10 hrs passed from the start of the cycle until I read the meter, and the cycle is 115 mins (or 145 mins if the post-cycle drying blower time is included). However, the machine only pulls 3 watts when "idle" so 0.6 KWH is close enough. Based on the electric rate on my last bill, running the load cost a bit less than 7.4 cents (not including the water well pumping the water out of the ground). Highest power consumption during water heating was about 650 watts. The pump motor and active electronics without water heating was between 115 and 126 watts. The two lid motors which run for about 10 seconds at start of the cycle and a bit less time at the end pulled 89 watts. The electronics and drying fan motor during the dry phase was a whopping 7 watts. Of course, these figures have no direct bearing on KitchenAid. | ||
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Post# 234274 , Reply# 33 8/31/2007 at 14:16 (6,076 days old) by countryguy (Astorville, ON, Canada) |
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Brinomarc, I am sorry to hear about the horrible experiences with your KitchenAid. If mine was doing the same I would have sent it back to Sears by now. I am quite impressed with mine so far. I really do like how well it cleans, how quiet it is and how easy it is to load all the different size dishes, glasses, casseroles, etc. in both the top and bottom racks. Gary | ||
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Post# 234439 , Reply# 35 9/1/2007 at 13:41 (6,075 days old) by earthling177 (Boston, MA) |
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Interesting date! The post right above this one has an interesting date: Post# 234370-8/32/2007-00:49 August 32nd! Fun! :-) | ||
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Post# 234462 , Reply# 36 9/1/2007 at 16:21 (6,074 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Ran a Normal Eco cycle this afternoon, and watched the Kill-A-Watt meter a little more closely. Main wash and final rinse both heat to 125°F. Fill (motor runs to check water level), 45 watts. Motor recirculate during prewash with no water heating, 75 to 106 watts. Motor drain with water load, 45 watts. Motor drain with no water load, 30 to 35 watts. Motor recirculate during final rinse with water heating, 614 to 641 watts. Drying blower, 7 watts. Cycle time ~88 mins of which ~22 mins is the drying phase. Four water changes (W-W-R-R). Total energy use, 0.4 KWH. | ||
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Post# 234518 , Reply# 39 9/1/2007 at 23:58 (6,074 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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| Post# 236823 , Reply# 42 9/15/2007 at 23:58 (6,060 days old) by andrewinorlando () | ||
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Steve - It was a KUDU03STSS, the latest "U" series with the top mounted controls and the display in the front. | ||
| Post# 236835 , Reply# 43 9/16/2007 at 07:14 (6,060 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada) | ||
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Post# 236838 , Reply# 44 9/16/2007 at 08:17 (6,060 days old) by petek (Ontari ari ari O ) |
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Andrew; a salesman saying many people buying high end machines don't really care how well they clean just that they're quiet and stylish.. sounds a little odd to me. To my way of thinking most people paying premiums want it all and they are the first people that are going to be madder than hell if they find out it doesn't live up to its premium price. Personally I'd deal with another salesman, but then again the vast majority of people selling appliances really don't have actual experience ever seeing the machines they are selling in operation at all. | ||
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Post# 236839 , Reply# 45 9/16/2007 at 08:31 (6,060 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Pete, I hate to say it, but Andrew is right on the people and their high-end machines. I've had a discussion with a few knowledgeable people here over the years as well as personal observation in many a high-end type environment/home. I can't tell you how many times I've been domestic help and caterers thoroughly wash everything before it's placed in a machihne. Also happens when a bunch of variouis people are helping and the same thing happens.
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