Thread Number: 13781
IGNIS! The pix
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Post# 237145   9/18/2007 at 13:28 (6,057 days old) by vivalalavatrice ()        

Here you are my dream machine finally and hardly found!




Post# 237146 , Reply# 1   9/18/2007 at 13:30 (6,057 days old) by vivalalavatrice ()        
TOP

The top and the pushbuttons control panel...

Post# 237147 , Reply# 2   9/18/2007 at 13:33 (6,057 days old) by vivalalavatrice ()        
Pushbuttons!

Here you are! 8 cycles and red-to-stop, black-to-start
The red led and the indicator...unfortunately not found...


Post# 237149 , Reply# 3   9/18/2007 at 13:34 (6,057 days old) by vivalalavatrice ()        
Detergent dispenser

Left (cold) for prewash, right (hot) for main wash...
Now the machine is provided to work with a Y to fill with cold only


Post# 237150 , Reply# 4   9/18/2007 at 13:35 (6,057 days old) by vivalalavatrice ()        
And now Inside

Opening the cabinet lid you will see that

Post# 237151 , Reply# 5   9/18/2007 at 13:36 (6,057 days old) by vivalalavatrice ()        
Then pull the handle

and the outertub lid slide from left to right!

Post# 237152 , Reply# 6   9/18/2007 at 13:36 (6,057 days old) by vivalalavatrice ()        
Here you are the drum!

.

Post# 237153 , Reply# 7   9/18/2007 at 13:39 (6,057 days old) by vivalalavatrice ()        
And now let's open the drum!

I've just spoken wiht a man on a forum here (PLCForum) whose father wash an Ignis repariman and he told me thatn this system of drum opening rise up to the 50s that's the very first serie of this type of machine! Then the opening of the drum allow you to pull out the drum lids!

Post# 237154 , Reply# 8   9/18/2007 at 13:41 (6,057 days old) by vivalalavatrice ()        
Undressed :-)

The machine without the frontside panel. You were allowed to do that istantaneally (no screws!) to let you clean the filter which was mounted inside the outertub between that and the draining pump directly attached just there!

Post# 237155 , Reply# 9   9/18/2007 at 13:42 (6,057 days old) by vivalalavatrice ()        
The backside...

...

Post# 237156 , Reply# 10   9/18/2007 at 13:43 (6,057 days old) by vivalalavatrice ()        
...my first step in restoration!

Here it is my first step in restoration! I took away the draining pump and the filter and I started to repair the hose in the outer tub...what about! OMG...SHAME on me...what a bad job! :-((

Post# 237157 , Reply# 11   9/18/2007 at 13:48 (6,057 days old) by dj-gabriele ()        

Fantastico!
Ti devo ancora una risposta decente per email! ;)
I hope you're going to fix that machine for good! It'll be a marvel after the restoration! Never seen something similar anywhere else!


Post# 237160 , Reply# 12   9/18/2007 at 14:21 (6,057 days old) by fa_f3_20 ()        

I can honestly say that I've never seen anything quite like that...

Post# 237162 , Reply# 13   9/18/2007 at 14:47 (6,057 days old) by vivalalavatrice ()        
The back and rfront side

...without the panel...and rotatating!

Post# 237163 , Reply# 14   9/18/2007 at 14:47 (6,057 days old) by vivalalavatrice ()        
.

.

Post# 237168 , Reply# 15   9/18/2007 at 15:41 (6,057 days old) by mielabor ()        

Very interesting machine. It has several constructional details that I have never seen before. Now a question: I can see that the outer drum is fixed to springs and shock absorbers. Therefore I suppose that it can move inside the cabinet. When I look at the picture of the opened inner drum there is almost no space between outer drum and the grey funnel. Is this funnel flexible to allow the movements of the outer drum? It doesn't look very flexible. If it was, I would have expected a fold in the material to increase flexibility.

Post# 237174 , Reply# 16   9/18/2007 at 16:05 (6,057 days old) by vivalalavatrice ()        
Is this funnel flexible

Well no it isn.'t. The part you're referred to (I call it "imboccatura") is hard plastic material and is mounted with a seal upon the outer tub...and both are completely independent from the cabinet! In fact if you see under the top through the cabinet lid you will see the back pair of springs... but there are indeed very few centimeters there(I suppose 1/2" max).

That was a very good choice in the mechanical costructioin of that kind of machine... no vibrations of the drum trasmitted to the cabinet and conseguentely no noise!

The mystery is why now producers are so ostinated to do those infiniteves folds of rubber to join the outer tub with the cabinet!?!?

Then the funnel as you called it got closed by the sliding door...

Oh...there are two lidswitch in this machine...one is under the cabinet lid and another one is on right of sliding door, but this one bacame problematic when aong the time the sliding door started to doesn't close thightly any long and blocked the machine...my aunt solved this problem with a clothes pin...LOL!

BYE! And ask me whatever you find not clear on this machine! I'll be glade to answer you!


Post# 237244 , Reply# 17   9/19/2007 at 00:53 (6,056 days old) by vivalalavatrice ()        
Drum closing system

I really need some help to find the way to close and block the drum lids...Any suggests overthere?!?

Post# 237252 , Reply# 18   9/19/2007 at 03:59 (6,056 days old) by mielabor ()        

Aha, so it is a similar construction as Asko uses for its front loaders: the door is attached to the outer drum and not to the cabinet.

May I suggest that you make a video from the opening and closing of the drum as it is so different from anything I (and I think many others too) have seen so far.


Post# 237258 , Reply# 19   9/19/2007 at 06:23 (6,056 days old) by mayken4now (Panama City, Florida)        

mayken4now's profile picture
Diomede

Very cool machine. Glad you finally found it.

Looks to be rather simple to work on???

Steve


Post# 237263 , Reply# 20   9/19/2007 at 07:16 (6,056 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        
support

toggleswitch's profile picture
NICE MACHINE!

In panel #237162 above, (the machine is siedways), is there a support "beam" that is supposed to be over the hub/bearings (center of tub)? The screw-holes on each side make me believe there is one not shown.

I just assumed that horizontal axis machines of this type would always support both sides of the tub.


Post# 237265 , Reply# 21   9/19/2007 at 07:17 (6,056 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        

toggleswitch's profile picture
237514 is sideways, but you get the idea!

Post# 237285 , Reply# 22   9/19/2007 at 09:19 (6,056 days old) by mielabor ()        
Drum support in horizontal axis washers...

Drums of horizontal axis top loaders are sometimes supported on both sides (bearing on each side) like Diomede's machine and sometimes on one side only like a front loader. Drums of current Miele top loaders are supported on one side only. Drums of current AEG top loaders are supported on both sides.

Post# 237292 , Reply# 23   9/19/2007 at 10:31 (6,056 days old) by brent-aucoin ()        

Diomede,
Very cool machine! I might have missed the year somewhere. What year is it from?
I was thinking it would have a regular tub with agitator!
It is in really good shape!
Please share when you do your first run!
Thanks for the pictures!
Brent


Post# 237319 , Reply# 24   9/19/2007 at 13:15 (6,056 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        
Diomede

foraloysius's profile picture
Wonderful machine, thank you for the pictures. It's a long time ago that we talked about Ignis and Philips topload H-axis machines. This is a different machine than I saw in the past. I think that was a Philips. It too had pushbuttons, but it was definitely a different machine.

Louis


Post# 237323 , Reply# 25   9/19/2007 at 13:38 (6,056 days old) by vivalalavatrice ()        
THANKS! :-)

Oh... I thought it was of the early 60s but talking with a repairman's son of those yaears we discovered (looking at the drum lids opening system) that it might be even of the mid 50s...we don't know exactly the age of it.

LEAK! Unfortunately now the problem is that the machine leaks from below where the draining pump is fitted into the outer tub! I of course did wrong this fixing...


Post# 237441 , Reply# 26   9/20/2007 at 02:50 (6,055 days old) by vivalalavatrice ()        
I think that was a Philips

The story of this machine is very very long...but either if I've just told it I'm very glade to do it again...

Ignis was the first brand which started to produce between 50s and 60s this kind of machine...at that era we swapped from "semi-automatiche" (which was most twintub as Candy bi-matic) directly to the front loading WM which were representing "THE" completely-automatic washing machines... like 1964 Candy Automatic 3 wich Riccardo posted here some threads ago after have restored it.
Ignis differently from any other brands kept the top loading convenience with the horizontal drum, "invented" this machine!
Infact on the silver plate to the left of contfol panel you cand read "Superautomatica"...
Then the only-pushbuttons controls was to show more clearly the "automaticity" of this machine comparing with others...and it's not absolutely electronic!

Ignis lasted for years producing this machine...until the 90s!! The models became less deep, knobs on control panel were introduced, and the dispenser was moved into the opening under the top. So either after the fail of the firm (bought by Philips in the late 80s), if you wanted a TLHA 60cm wide it had to be Ignis!

After the 90s Philips introduced the Whirlpool brand (here we saw Whirlpool first in 1991!!)...but the machine was very different! In the 2001 the last Whirlpool branded model...

Now TLHA are all 40-45 cm wide and drum rotates back and forth...no machine left like this with the drum rotating left-right and wide 60cm...and with the outer tub independent from the cabinet!

I know very well that this is the machine you all american friends would like to have sold there...and for this I too write to Whirlpool to say that... This would be the revolution I think in American Laundry! Isn't it?!
BYE!
Diomede


Post# 237453 , Reply# 27   9/20/2007 at 06:37 (6,055 days old) by dj-gabriele ()        

Diomede, have a look at this, the USA actually have something like that! Staber produces a washer that is just like you IGNIS , have a look at their website! I think that it's the only firm that still has this kind of washing machine.
Thw drum rotates left and righ and is loaded from the top, opposed to the "usual" top loaders we see around in Europe. Have a look!
Anyway I believe that at STABER they're all thieves, the least expensive model costs around 1300 dollars! That's 1000 euros for a washer I can buy for 350 euros in any store!


CLICK HERE TO GO TO dj-gabriele's LINK


Post# 237460 , Reply# 28   9/20/2007 at 07:28 (6,055 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        
That is one big motor you've got there!

gansky1's profile picture
This is one cool looking machine, thanks for the pics so we can see it better. I'm sure you will not have any trouble with the tub-to-pump hose, a little silicone is a like a miracle for these machines.

The Staber is an expensive machine for sure, but since each one is built (basically) by hand, the price is somewhat understandable. There are lots of other problems with the Staber washer that make it a bad deal though, not the least of which is the lack of any factory service network, the owner is expected to do the repairs themselves.


Post# 237470 , Reply# 29   9/20/2007 at 08:09 (6,055 days old) by dj-gabriele ()        

gansky1: built by hand?! And no at-home technical service?? Ouch!

Post# 237502 , Reply# 30   9/20/2007 at 12:51 (6,055 days old) by vivalalavatrice ()        
STABER!??!?!

Gabri...ma che paragoni fai!?

There's absolutely non comparison with Staber...

Staber has got exagonal shaped drum
Ignis has got regular circular drum with 4 agitators (instead of 3 like common horizontal drum)

Staber has got the rubber seal that join the tub with the cabinet
Ignis is like Asko or old AEG which has independet tub from cabinet

I would never buy a Staber if I were there...the machine I own would be more appreciated from american market IMHO even if it has to be three times opend (cabinet, outertub, drum), because is really more like a FL than Staber is.


Post# 237503 , Reply# 31   9/20/2007 at 13:02 (6,055 days old) by dj-gabriele ()        

Hehe, I was only meaning the way you load it and how the drum spins ;)
Ovviamente nemmeno io la comprerei mai! Hai visto che caratteristiche penose!? Come vedi ho fatto il paragone con 3 modelli che abbiamo nel Belpaese e tutti sono decisamente una lunghezza più avanti :D

Ahhh... la tua risposta per email sta finalmente per arrivare, chiedo umilmente perdono! :)


Post# 237506 , Reply# 32   9/20/2007 at 13:13 (6,055 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        
Yay for Ignis!!

unimatic1140's profile picture
WOW

Diomede that is one beautiful machine!!! A big vintage Imperial Forum Congratulations!

I have never seen a horizontal access top loader that has both an outer tub lid and an inner cylinder hatch.

As for fixing leaks, that can be a real challenge that many of us have been through. Keep up the good work and don't worry about how it looks from the inside, the important thing is that the leak stops. You might have to try three or four different things but you'll get it, that washer is too beautiful not to come up with a solution! Please keep us posted.


Post# 237557 , Reply# 33   9/20/2007 at 19:27 (6,054 days old) by funguy10 ()        

Also Staber wants YOU to fix the washer if it breaks. They have NO costomer service!

Post# 237608 , Reply# 34   9/21/2007 at 01:12 (6,054 days old) by vivalalavatrice ()        
Thanks Robert!

Oh...thank you very much! I was waiting your opinion either. The "headmster"'s one! :-)
If you say like that...you that you've restored and have seen restored so much vintage AWM...I'll be fine! I think the leak from outertub is the most serious problem...
The motor works, the drum can be easier fixed and the timer works too...that's it runs but don't know if the contacts go well! But I cannot check them untill I haven't stopped the leaks! Inlet valves are stiil to be checked.

What you call outer tub lid is only a cabinet lid...then the fantasmagoric inner cylinder hatch is the really outer tub lid (one time I think it were ermetic, but sliding so long I think it's not so more!)

I know it's a VERY-VERY-VERY rare machine...my dream machine!
The story you read it above...so you can understand why I'm so tight in saving it!

This machine and Riccardo (candyrijk)'s Candy automatic 3 are two "miliar stones", two fondamental objects of the Italian Industrial history...and social evolution!

OF COURSE...I'll keep you posted!

BYE
Diomede


Post# 237641 , Reply# 35   9/21/2007 at 07:42 (6,054 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
Top Loader

chestermikeuk's profile picture
Hello Diomede

Congratulations on finally getting your dream machine,looks in fine shape, luv the idea of removing the front access panel without undoing screws etc..

We had a similar machine here under the name of Stokvis, with the push buttons, and also a Philips but with a rotary timer..

I`m sure you will be an expert at fixing those leaks shortly, patience and a lot of bonding mastic will solve it I`m sure...

enjoy, Mike


Post# 238436 , Reply# 36   9/25/2007 at 15:45 (6,050 days old) by vivalalavatrice ()        
SILICONE!

YEAH! That's been the solution! So don't exitate to spend your money when the argument is restorating a WM.

I buy two cartidge of silicone, one was the red temperature-proof and the other one was the traditional trasparent.

The red I payd 1,20euro for it while the other costed to me 3,50euro. Though the differences were not only in prices but in tecnical features too: the read is either temp-proof but what a swearing to place it (never moulding it with the finger was good to grip on surfaces!)...so it was better the traditional one

Red one says temp-proof until 300°C...but a WM wouldn't work at soo hign temperature...the other one says 120°C...whihc would be good the same!

I placed it with my finger throuhg the hole laying it twice a day...one thin lay each time!
Wiht some little pieces of a rubber seal I empty the part too large to be closed with silicone only...I layed silicone out of the tub either in the same manner (finger, thin lay twice a day)

Now at end I mounted the draining pump and as the seal was too old it didn't hold good enough, so a little layer of silicone even around the draining pump edge.

Now you might see some drops over there but honestly it's not the "river" I saw a week ago! The floor however is dry!

Shoud I say...THE LEAK STOPS!? I don't know...but it seems to be so...

Tomorrow I hope there will be many pictures for you and I'll try to hook the machine up too, so I'll test the inlet valves, the level-switch (which I think has got some trick!) and the motor...

Then it would be up to the drum closing system (to rebuild completely!!!) but...there's enough to do for another week now!

I'm happy...but...SHSHSHHS...dont' say it loudly! :-)

GOODBYE
Diomede

PS:the outside of the machine has got very few things to be done...


Post# 238443 , Reply# 37   9/25/2007 at 16:19 (6,050 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        
YAY for Diomede!

unimatic1140's profile picture
Silicone is a washer's wonder drug! Looking foward to some more pictures of this beautiful machine.

Post# 238531 , Reply# 38   9/26/2007 at 01:01 (6,049 days old) by vivalalavatrice ()        
Looking foward to some more pictures of this beautiful machi

...of course as soon as I'll get new batteries for my digital camera.

The problem now is the wiring...first of all I have to remake the ground wiring, then it is possible that the heating elements wirining have to be remade (the heat demaged some plug). Then I have to invent indee a drum lids blocking system...because I neither have a picture of the original...

Bye...Thanks Robert!
Hear you all soon
Diomede


Post# 238598 , Reply# 39   9/26/2007 at 13:33 (6,049 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
Wonderful Diomede that you got one big step forward. It's worth the trouble!

Post# 238748 , Reply# 40   9/27/2007 at 02:45 (6,048 days old) by vivalalavatrice ()        
...and now the motor...:-(

Hi all! My work is going on...
I hooked up the machine:
- I couldn't use the Y to join the valves because they need a pair of new seals...so COLD FILL ONLY.
- I linked the cold valve with the only hose I had and it works quite well

The machine start well:
- select the programm (I used the "8" Rinse-only to try)
- push "I" to start and it goes in filling...no leaks (apart some drops from the inlet valve but it'll be useful to put all new seals!)
- levelscitch gave the consense to the timer, which gave the consens to the motor...BUT!

It makes only some round and then no more...If it doesn't work fill with water only...what about with a Bobload?! So I took away the belt and "miracolously" the motor started to spin...

I'll try to change the motor...but honestly I feel it's the solenoid-motor (we call it "condensatore" or "starter")...but imagine that I didn't found it...It would be integrated with the motor or I haven't been clever enough to search for it in the control panel tower...

I'll keep you posted!
BYE!
Diomede


Post# 238784 , Reply# 41   9/27/2007 at 09:02 (6,048 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
Good work, Diomede! Yes trying to get the machines to work again can be a challenge, but like we say in America, "if there is a will, there is a way". And I'm sure you will figure out something in time. Keep up the good work.


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