Thread Number: 14462
1959 Frigidaire Appliance Line |
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Post# 246406   11/4/2007 at 22:27 (5,989 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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Post# 246407 , Reply# 1   11/4/2007 at 22:30 (5,989 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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Post# 246408 , Reply# 2   11/4/2007 at 22:31 (5,989 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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Post# 246409 , Reply# 3   11/4/2007 at 22:33 (5,989 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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Post# 246410 , Reply# 4   11/4/2007 at 22:36 (5,989 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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Post# 246411 , Reply# 5   11/4/2007 at 22:38 (5,989 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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Post# 246412 , Reply# 6   11/4/2007 at 22:39 (5,989 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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Post# 246416 , Reply# 7   11/4/2007 at 22:48 (5,989 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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Post# 246417 , Reply# 8   11/4/2007 at 22:49 (5,989 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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Post# 246418 , Reply# 9   11/4/2007 at 22:50 (5,989 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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Post# 246419 , Reply# 10   11/4/2007 at 22:53 (5,989 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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Post# 246420 , Reply# 11   11/4/2007 at 22:54 (5,989 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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Post# 246421 , Reply# 12   11/4/2007 at 22:56 (5,989 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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Post# 246422 , Reply# 13   11/4/2007 at 22:58 (5,989 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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Post# 246424 , Reply# 14   11/4/2007 at 22:59 (5,989 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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Post# 246426 , Reply# 15   11/4/2007 at 23:01 (5,989 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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Post# 246427 , Reply# 16   11/4/2007 at 23:15 (5,989 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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Post# 246505 , Reply# 17   11/5/2007 at 06:55 (5,989 days old) by saltysam ()   |   | |
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My mom still has her '59 stove that is exactly like the one pictured except in white. It is sitting in her basement waiting for me to come get it one day. Mark |
Post# 246507 , Reply# 18   11/5/2007 at 07:10 (5,989 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Ahh, back when a woman's kitchen/home was her prison or castle, which ever way one looked at things. Love that Frigidaire dishwasher with the rotary tube wash arm. Would love to see one of those in action, wonder how effective such a system was compared to impeller spray arms. Just what the heck was or is "dry frost proof" air Frigidaire claimed kept their freezers frost free? Did it work? |
Post# 246513 , Reply# 19   11/5/2007 at 07:27 (5,989 days old) by jamiel (Detroit, Michigan and Palm Springs, CA)   |   | |
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Post# 246522 , Reply# 20   11/5/2007 at 08:27 (5,988 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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Post# 246523 , Reply# 21   11/5/2007 at 08:32 (5,988 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 246524 , Reply# 22   11/5/2007 at 08:32 (5,988 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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Post# 246530 , Reply# 23   11/5/2007 at 08:43 (5,988 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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Post# 246532 , Reply# 24   11/5/2007 at 08:44 (5,988 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)   |   | |
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Post# 246541 , Reply# 25   11/5/2007 at 09:17 (5,988 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut)   |   | |
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Post# 246578 , Reply# 26   11/5/2007 at 12:04 (5,988 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)   |   | |
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Post# 246601 , Reply# 27   11/5/2007 at 14:17 (5,988 days old) by tlee618 ()   |   | |
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That brochure is so fun. I would like to order one of each of the appliances and in turquoise of course. |
Post# 246602 , Reply# 28   11/5/2007 at 14:20 (5,988 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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Odd that GM didn't see fit to mention that in their sales brochure. Maybe they didn't think an internal water heater was feminine enough? Or, that most consumers wouldn't understand the concept. It's not been until recently that many American washer buyers understood the importance of internal water heaters in front load clothes washers, either. In any case, IMHO, the internal water heater gives the Turbo-Spray dishwasher line a definite performance advantage over the competition. |
Post# 246603 , Reply# 29   11/5/2007 at 14:24 (5,988 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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I found this brochure in a drawer in the patio kitchen of the home I bought ten years ago? I understand there was a Frigidaire distribution center in town back in the 60's here. I suspect this place was all GM Frigidaire at one point, but the appliances were nearly all changed to GE Harvest Gold ones in the late 70's. The only GM Frigidaire appliance here now is a mid-60's Compact 30 Electric drop-in range in the patio. It does have those big flat coils, and a self-cleaning oven. I still prefer gas, though. |
Post# 246645 , Reply# 30   11/5/2007 at 17:20 (5,988 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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rich, most dishwashers back then had the heating element run throughout the entire wash phase and on into the dry phase. It just was used to maintain water temp at best. Segments of wash cycles were only no more than 5-7 minutes long at most back then. Rinses were 1-2 minute periods. So the heater was not of much use due to quick water changes. Our TOL 1960 Waste King heated the final rinse water to 150 or 155. KitchenAid I don't think had a SaniWash cycle on their Superbas until the KDS15 series. If you'll notice, I think the Sears Catalog has the Lady Kenmore dishwasher Heavy Soil button heat wash water to 140 degrees. Neighbors across the street had a roll-out Westinghouse dishwasher when the house was built in 1961. That had a switch to select heat-delayed main wash & final rinse to eiteher 140 or 150 degrees. This was an impeller machine. I believe the TOL GE roll-out dishwasher had a red cycle button which implied delayed water heating probably. Frigidaire dind't have an extended wash phase in their machines until 1964 or 1965 Imperial Models came out with their wash-arm based machines. Besides, most people kept their water heaters set at 140-160 degrees anyway.
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Post# 246656 , Reply# 31   11/5/2007 at 18:24 (5,988 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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Bob, Well, the Hobart/KA (HOKA) dishwashers, with the big heavy cast iron wash arm, didn't have water heaters. They did have heated dry, however, but that's not quite the same. Not sure when the cast iron HOKA's were changed over to the stainless arms, or when the water heaters were added, but my '58 doesn't have an internal water heater - I doubt that any of the cast-iron wash arm models did. The HOKA attempts to make up for this by purging the water line, sort of a pre-wash, before going into the full wash. The cycles are quick enough that I guess the water in the plumbing between the dishwasher and the water heater doesn't cool down much between purge and wash. It's interesting that Frigidaire offers its water heaters in both glass lined and the cheaper galvanized tanks. My understanding is that galvanized was a poor option for a water heater tank, which is why you don't find them for sale today. The reason is that at higher temperatures, such as above 160F, the zinc coating reverses its anodic behavior, and instead of protecting the steel, it starts attacking the steel of the tank (the steel becomes sacrificial to the zinc). This may have been more of a problem for gas-fired water heaters than electric ones, since the gas ones probably had more localized hot spots on the tank walls/bottom than the electric ones with their suspended elements. But with temps above 160F, perhaps even an electric water heater might have a short life with a galvanized tank. |
Post# 246677 , Reply# 32   11/5/2007 at 20:59 (5,988 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)   |   | |
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~I am the queen of our kitchen! Toggles, put y'all in a double-wide and you got a hit country song!! DAMN I'VE BEEN DISCOVERED. Swiped this out of my great-aunt's house. She was a major pack-rat. G-d rest her soul! Colyerism superb! A POS souvenir from Carson City Catskill, NY but it has value to me! |
Post# 246678 , Reply# 33   11/5/2007 at 21:06 (5,988 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)   |   | |
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Post# 246700 , Reply# 34   11/5/2007 at 23:50 (5,988 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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Yep, that little plaque reeks of schlock. Not that there's anything wrong with that, LOL. I did notice the heat exchanger capability of the Frigidaire "Comfort without cost" A/C units. It looks like the GM engineers were determined to cover all the bases. I wasn't aware that heat pumps were unusual in 1959, though. When did they become common in the USA? |
Post# 246747 , Reply# 35   11/6/2007 at 10:05 (5,987 days old) by rapidry1000 (San Francisco)   |   | |
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Rich The regional Frigidaire distribution center was located in your town of San Leandro on 1700 Marina Blvd 94577. I have an envelope from Frigidaire postmarked January 1968. James |
Post# 246845 , Reply# 36   11/6/2007 at 18:58 (5,987 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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I believe that address would now be an auto dealership. About five years ago the city demolished a lot of businesses on Marina Blvd and built an "auto row" on Marina Blvd between 880 and San Leandro Blvd. Gone also is the GM training center on Marina near the Nimitz. Another auto dealership instead. |
Post# 247172 , Reply# 37   11/8/2007 at 13:25 (5,985 days old) by 3-ring ()   |   | |
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This is so cool - Thank you for sharing. Does anyone have something similar for the '61 or '62 Frigidaire product line? |
Post# 247274 , Reply# 38   11/9/2007 at 04:11 (5,985 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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Post# 247295 , Reply# 39   11/9/2007 at 08:31 (5,984 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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Thanks. Greg (Gansky)'s posting of the Sears sales brochure inspired me to scan and post this entire GM Frigidaire brochure. I wonder who was responsible for the various artwork in the brochure. Real people sat at easels and drew/painted the various appliances and models, including my favorite, the fanciful painting of what goes on inside a pulsator washer drum during a wash. I hear Debussy's "La Mer" when I see that painting... |
Post# 248557 , Reply# 41   11/15/2007 at 23:18 (5,978 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Remember European automatic dishwashers like washing machines, had heaters mainly because homes on that side of the pond lacked the huge storage tank hot water heaters found in the United States. It is much more efficient to heat water for the washing machine or dishwasher internally, than crank up the boiler or whatever means a European home used to generate hot water. Installation is eaiser as well since the machines do not require only cold water. As for the booster heater units, as with commercial dishwashers in the United States, the name of the game is speed. While it is possible to build commercial dishwashers that will heat water to 180F or even 200F, even at 220V/3 phase power it is going to take some time. A tankless "booster" heater can crank out 180F water quickly for all fills, thus cycles are faster, even if the final rinse is boosted to 200F. Hot Water Heaters Set To 120F IIRC, this came about out of two conerns; energy use and safety. Unless some sort of mixer valve is installed at faucets, persons can get seriously scaled by hot water over say 130F. Especially the elderly and very young who have a hard time feeling temperature. L. |
Post# 248559 , Reply# 42   11/15/2007 at 23:36 (5,978 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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Steve, I can confirm that my KDC-17A has no internal water heater. It does have a 1,000 watt heated air dry, though ;-). When you think about it, people used to wash dishes by hand for decades, if not centuries. They rarely used water much above 116F, because that's the temp at which scalding starts. Rubber gloves allow one to go a bit higher, but even then the rubber heats up and can be uncomfortable. In my mind, esp for hard surfaces, the goal should be complete cleaning, not necessarily high temps - although high temps usually help with complete cleaning. As may have been discussed before, one solution for the scalding issue is to have mixing valves at various people-friendly locations - bathroom sink, tub, shower, for example. These can automatically add cold to hot to keep the temp at 120F or lower. For appliances that people are not *supposed* to get their hands into, like dishwashers and clothes washers, the high temp output of the water heater could be attached directly. Around here I keep the hot water heater around 135F. For the vintage HOKA dishwasher, that results in a wash/rinse temp of about 120F. It seems to be hot enough for good results - the very strong water spray uses physical energy to make up for thermal. |
Post# 248563 , Reply# 43   11/15/2007 at 23:48 (5,978 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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There is also the fact automatic dishwasher detergents, both commercial and domestic are moving away from high alkaline and chlorine based products, to enzymes. Enzymes have a sweet spot at round 120F to 140F, and according to Consumer Reports, detergents containing enzymes beat the socks off those without. Just as with laundry, enzymes allow high temperature cleaning results, without the very high temperature,which saves energy. Commercial dishwashers, of course must either use a high temperature rinse or chemicals (usually chlorine bleach), for sanitation of dishes, per most local health codes. It would be interesting to retest many of the vintage dishwashers that got bad reviews/results in cleaning, using modern enzyme detergents. |
Post# 248595 , Reply# 44   11/16/2007 at 08:15 (5,978 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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Post# 248600 , Reply# 45   11/16/2007 at 08:46 (5,977 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)   |   | |
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I wonder if the very short wash cycles of vintage dishwashers are really long enough for enzymes to do their thing. Is this detergent enzyme based? I find it cleans better in the vintage machines than any other dw detergent I've have ever used. Granted baked on stuff needs to be soaked in the sink for a 2 hours before you wash it in a vintage machine for it to get it completely clean, but I don't mind doing that, I mean the only other option is to have a modern dishwasher in the kitchen that washes for 2 hours, but I rather soak for 2 hours and have beautiful vintage machines in the kitchen. Just a personal preference. |
Post# 248629 , Reply# 46   11/16/2007 at 14:01 (5,977 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Post# 248630 , Reply# 47   11/16/2007 at 14:52 (5,977 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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Robert, I also like those little Cascade/Dawn packets, mainly because they are so well suited to being placed on the upper rack of the KD-2P. Usually I wait for the initial hot water purge to finish, before I put them in, as there is some inevitable splashing from the purge fill that might rupture the gel packet. Once I tried using two; I didn't notice any difference in cleaning, so I went back to just one. Your point about a 2 hour pre-soak in the sink vs a 2 hour modern dishwasher is valid. What I like about the KD-2P is that I can remove the upper tray and fit large objects in there that might not fit even in a modern dw with the upper rack removed. It's quite a tall space. However I'm not really biased against the modern ones, as long as they work. In my mind, anything beats washing dishes by hand. |
Post# 248633 , Reply# 48   11/16/2007 at 14:59 (5,977 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Have a Kenmore (built by Frigidaire) 18" portable for over 10 years now, and while it is nothing fancy, it gets the job done. I like that the machine has mechanical controls, so can "customise" cycles as one wishes, such as add an extra rinse. Anything to avoid washing dishes by hand gets my vote! Have found with today's TOL automatic dishwasher detergents, even the poorest of dishwashers can give good results. |
Post# 248723 , Reply# 52   11/17/2007 at 10:22 (5,976 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut)   |   | |
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