Suds-saving...what about!?


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Suds-saving...what about!?

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Post# 250591 11/27/2007 at 09:15 (5,988 days old) by vivalalavatrice ()
Checkrate/Likes Hi all! This informations I'm going to ask for are need for my tesi: - does anyone have got easly available some pictures (or could address me to how can get them) showing a timer with the suds-saving feature? I often saw the Maytag models having it...but some other brands would be suitable the same! - I'm wondering how this worked... did the draining pump reverse the action and sucked back the sudsy water or there were two different pumps, one for draining and another one to bring back... - how was the cycle managed with the suds saving possibility? Had only the sudsy WASH water been saved or the featured made the user save whatever wash-frame-cycle water(i.e. last-rinse water)? I'm hopeful that many of you here could help me! THANKS very muche all in advance... GOODBYE Diomede

Post# 250598 , Reply# 1 11/27/2007 at 09:59 (5,988 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut)
Checkrate/Likes *Diomede,* Generally, the suds saver feature used a separate smaller pump that would divert the WASH water(and only the wash water, I believe)to a different drain hose that needed to be placed in a dedicated wash tub(with a plugged drain). With the GE models, if the user selected the "SAVE" option, wash water would be drained into that tub and would remain there until the user selected the "RETURN" option on the washing machine's control panel. I have never used one and there are many other members who are much more experienced with these than me. You can also go to the "Vintage Fun Stuff" section of this site and see a cutaway of a 1958 GE solid tub model that has the suds-saver feature and you can see some of the mechanics of it. By the way, I LOVE your country and have only been there 3 times (never enough time!). Your land, your people, your food (Oh Lord) are all beautiful.

Post# 250607 , Reply# 2 11/27/2007 at 11:46 (5,988 days old) by dadoes (TX,�U.S. of A.)
Checkrate/Likes Whirlpool belt-drive models used a single pump, with a divertor valve and two drain hoses. The wash water always drained to one of the two hoses (which was placed in a utility tub or storage tank) and the rinse water exited through the other hose. There was no separate switch to preset whether or not to save the wash water. If one did not want to save the wash water, the utility tub was left unstoppered so that it drained away immediately. To return the saved wash water, the timer was set at a "Suds" position, which activated the valve so that the pump sucked the water back in through the drain hose. The machine agitated while the water returned. 1.5 to 2 inches of water where soil settled was left in the storage tub to avoid sucking it back into the machine. The timer automatically advanced into the wash phase of the Normal cycle, and added fresh water to top-off the water level if needed. If the user wanted to use a cycle other than Normal, the timer was manually reset after the water return was complete.

Post# 250612 , Reply# 3 11/27/2007 at 12:31 (5,988 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)
Checkrate/Likes The first Kenmores with the one speed motor and the Roto Swirl agitator had a flat rubber ring that wedged onto the agitator to control the water during the fast agitation while returning suds. Without the ring, the water would shoot up the ramps and out of the machine while the water level was really low in the earliest stages of the water return. If you did not grab a piece of laundry and clean off the top & front of the machine before mom returned, you were in DEEP trouble, especially if she saw the splash marks on the floor. The suds hose was cut at an angle on the bottom edge that sat in the storage tub so that the suction would break before the last 1/2 inch of water with the settled-out soil in it was sucked up. Then you pulled the plug and let that drain. You always added some additional detergent to each successive load, much like when using a wringer washing machine. If the first load was whites that you wanted to bleach, you added bleach to the rinse water and then gave the load a second rinse. That was so you did not have bleach in the wash water for every load that followed. Solid tub machines used a separate suds return pump that did not require the main motor to operate during suds return. When Maytag went to the perforated tub helical drive design and used the drive motor to operate the pump for suds return, the agitation on normal speed in single speed machines was gentle enough that not too much sudsing occurred and the suds generated were squashed when the clothes were loaded into the machine & pushed down on top of the suds. The early Frigidaires could save the wash water in the outer tub if you clamped the end of the single drain hose closed. You then had to stop the washer after the first spin and take out the clothes. The second load was put into the washer, the drain hose held over the tub and the timer set to start the next wash cycle, then immediately moved 5 clicks forward to start the agitation which caused the pump to operate and return the wash water to the tub. Then there was suds saving without a suds-saver washer. Water was pumped into the storage tub and the drain hose moved to another tub or a standpipe to drain the rinse water. For the next load, a pail was used to bail the water from the storage tub back into the washer. Where there was a will and either a short supply of hot water or it was expensive to heat, there was a way.

Post# 250618 , Reply# 4 11/27/2007 at 13:46 (5,988 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)
Checkrate/Likes *Another way* From the 80's onwards in Australian domestic machines, and with some low end early Australian Whirlpools, the suds save was a manual process, with machine assistance. With the Whirlpools, you would leave the single drain hose in the laundry tub, with the plug in. Once the machine had drained at the end of wash, you would then move the hose to the standpipe, and let the machine continue to the cycle. When you go to reuse the water, you transfer the hose back to the tub full of water, select suds return and then the machine spins for 1 increment and then agitates and pumps the water back in. With the domestically manufactured machines from the late 80's onwards, the process is as follows: 1) Select suds save on the control panel 2) At the end of the wash, the machine pauses before drain. You turn the suds save option knob, back to normal, and let the machine drain into the laundry tub. When that is complete you transfer the hose to the standpipe and wait for the machine to finish the cycle. 3) You put the drain hose back into the sink full of water and on the program dial, select Suds Return 4) The machine then fills with about 2" of water, drains and then stops 5) In theory this creates a syphon and all of the water in the tub is then syphoned back into the machine. We had one of these machines, and whilst it worked sometimes, it could be a bugger to get started, and you might have to run the suds save cycle a few times before the syphon would start. In the very high end AU domestic machines, there was an automatic Suds save option with two hoses. I've never seen one in the flesh to see whether it still uses the syphon principal, or whether there is a reversing pump. These were available up until the introduced the Electronic controls, which was about 3 years ago.

Post# 250624 , Reply# 5 11/27/2007 at 14:23 (5,988 days old) by dadoes (TX,�U.S. of A.)
Checkrate/Likes My GWL08 Use/Care guide outlines several "manual" choices for water or suds saving: 1. Re-use the wash water for another load by selecting the Soak option for the first load (this allows time to get to the machine before it drains). Remove the clothes from the wash water and restart the cycle, add more detergent if needed and manually select a water level. Let the second load run to completion, then replace the first load and start the cycle at the rinse phase to finish it. 2. Re-use the rinse water for washing a second load (in cold water). Select Spin Hold. Remove the first load, load the second batch and restart the cycle. The second load runs to completion. Re-load the first load and run it through spin. Both of these methods are messy, as they require pulling dripping-wet clothes out of the machine. 3. Manual Suds Save with Siphon-Back. Requires a storage tub of at least 27 gallons capacity. Select Soak. At the end of the wash phase, place the drain hose into the storage tub. Cancel Soak by pressing Advance to begin draining. When drain is complete, move the drain hose back to the standpipe. Allow the first load to finish. Siphon the saved water back in by setting the machine to spin and let the pump run for a few seconds. Press Power to shut it off and the saved water will (hopefully!) siphon back in (to a level equal to that in the storage tub). Load another batch of clothes, and manually select a water level. Rinse water could be saved and reused via the same method, select Spin Hold instead of Soak. Interestingly, these methods of saving water are not outlined in the IWL12 Use/Care.

Post# 250762 , Reply# 6 11/28/2007 at 05:50 (5,987 days old) by vivalalavatrice ()
Checkrate/Likes *GREAT! My dear friends!* Those were just the information I needed... you've been very very kind! If someone has got any further pictures it would be better...but it's not important... THANKS! Diomede

Post# 250784 , Reply# 7 11/28/2007 at 08:25 (5,987 days old) by gyrafoam (Wytheville, VA)
Checkrate/Likes *Tom----* Interesting about Kenmore's "flat rubber ring". I can't say I ever saw one, so I am intrigued. Do you have one? I would love to see what it looked like "in place"! I would think it would be a good idea to use it if doing a partial load to keep the splashing down as well. I had an (elderly) Whirly repairman recommend that when using low water levels with Whirly/Kenmore equipment that one use the "Gentle" speed so as to reduce the splashing. (The old Whirly (plain) Straight-Vane and "Surgilator" Straight-Vane having the potential to send water flying all over the place when on low water levels. The repairman claimed it was his experience that the sudsy water flying about inside eventually helped corrode the "D-Ring" and lid hinges and many other components in the underside as they might not get the washing chemicals "rinsed" off by the next splashing! I had never considered that, so it made sense to me. I always like to hear the stories about the old-timer's practice of "Suds-Saving". I remember a photo (from Zayde and Bobe's place) in Brooklyn, of the "wash-girl" doing the wash with the old Maytag "square-tub" out the basement door onto a little covered, concrete patio with concrete sinks on the side of the house. Bobe never allowed the wash to be done inside the house---even in the basement, until she had an automatic, as she thought the old wash water too nasty (" full of dibukim"!) to re-use! I know, a large "farm family" back in the day, really needed to conserve their well water. But the practice of re-using that funky wash water was never something I thought I would want to do. I'm glad I haven't had to!

Post# 250852 , Reply# 8 11/28/2007 at 13:07 (5,987 days old) by trok_99 ()
Checkrate/Likes *Roto-swirl/ rubber ring* When I was a kid, a neighbor had a 50's Kenmore w/ front controls. There a few members with similar machines. The rubber ring was placed over the agitator and sat on the neck, about 1-2" above the full water line. As a kid I had seen other Kenmores w/ roto-swirls that did not have the ring, so I asked the lady who owned it what it was for. She stated that the machine did not come with the ring when it was new. After owning the machine for a few months, she called Sears with the complaint that sheets and pillow cases filled up with air, hugged the agitator and would not get pulled under the water. The ring was Sears solution to press the air laiden items down. She was convinced that this was it's purpose and as far as she was concerned, it worked. Interestingly, during suds return, she added clothes as the water was coming back. I asked why she did that because with my mom's Maytag, adding clothes before all the water was returned was forbidden, plus the lid had to be shut. Her answer to why she added the clothes as the water was returning was to reduce the violent splashing.

Post# 250927 , Reply# 9 11/28/2007 at 20:18 (5,987 days old) by gyrafoam (Wytheville, VA)
Checkrate/Likes I continue to be intrigued by that rubber ring. One would think it would have been more popular! I wonder if the folks at Whirly made it and if so if they ever used it in any Whirly's?

Post# 250996 , Reply# 10 11/29/2007 at 07:48 (5,986 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill Home of the RailwayTrials Merseyside,UK)
Checkrate/Likes *Sudz* Interesting hearing about the different ways of sudz saving, When I was little my aunts neighbour had a Parnall Spin Washer, which was a super de-lux machine in the 60`s, my aunt just had a baby and was washing nappies, putting them through the wringer when her neighbour came in and was shocked at how wet they still where, think UK, winter, Grey , Raining..AND wet nappies ...what more does a new mom need... So she offered the use of her new machine to "Spin Them A Lot Drier" , so we toddled over the road and I watched in awe as she stopped her machine, I`d only ever seen twinnys & wringers up to then, turned the control to "SPIN TO SAVE" then took her clothes out after spinning, quick wipe of the drum, Spun Dry my aunts nappies and then proceeded to pop her clothes back in and pumped back the saved hot water!!! Needless to say my brain raced for days at what I`d just seen, I always thought that the Parnall had a seperate square tub in the bottom of the machine for the water etc..it was only when I came here that I found out how it worked.. I`m sure we could save more overall energy if these where brought back, but its like anything you need a good lesson in how best to make it work for you!!! Mike

Post# 250997 , Reply# 11 11/29/2007 at 08:07 (5,986 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)
Checkrate/Likes Steve, I hated that ring, but remember saving it for a while after we sold the washer when we bought the 58LK. It seemed like such a disfiguring thing in the machine and no other machine had anything like it. It only fit the pregnant Roto Swirls so I don't imagine they were manufactured for very long. Looking back, I guess it was somewhat stylish with the slightly raised collar around the agitator, the gently sloping polished smooth upper surface that tapered to a curved edge contrasting with the flat less finished underside. By the time I really became aware of it, we had moved to Georgia and no longer had the stone set tubs. The sewer line in the new house went out several feet above the floor so no sinks in the basement. Because of all of the granite under ground, it was too expensive to blast down through it to lay the sewer lines deeper. We lived many miles from Stone Mountain, but still had layers of granite in the ground. On top of that, the builders were not really sure about building houses with what they called "Yankee basements." Most houses has the washer hookups in the kitchen. When we first moved to Decatur, we rented a house with a laundry room off the kitchen while our new house was being built. Daddy went to Sears and bought a square tub on legs with wheels. It was galvanized on the inside, painted white on the outside, had a shelf between the legs near the floor and it had a cover. Oh, and a drain valve on the bottom. This was for the sudsaver in both houses. After a couple of years the suds valve started leaking so my parents had it removed, but that did not keep mom from saving the wash water. When my parents had first bought the Kenmore, we lived in in a house with oil heat and electric water heating so the sudsaver was a real money saver, but even while they lived in that house, daddy had gas run to the house so that a gas water heater could be installed. Our house outside of Decatur had a gas water heater as well, so the sudsaver was no longer a must, plus without a real drain connecting the tub to the sewer line, the gray hose had to be lifted out of the tub and put in the standpipe to drain the last wash water. After the suds valve was removed, the washer no longer had the gray suds hose, just the black drain hose. We had several floods when mom would forget to move the drain hose from the tub to the standpipe for the rinse water after she started a load of laundry and got distracted. When it worked according to plan, she had her tub of saved water and used a 2 quart copper bottom EKCO-Flint saucepan to bail the water if no one was around with enough strength to use a pail. It was after the suds valve was removed that we took the ring out of the washer since water was not being pumped back into the machine. Between the time of the single speed sudsaver washers and after the introduction of recirculating lint filters, Whirlpool made an agitator-mounted lint filter that scouped up water into the filter. I guess that this could have been a later solution to the splashing with the Roto Swirl if someone lost the ring or something. A lower end Kenmore would not have had the RS agitator anyway, but on the off chance someone had a second hand early model KM with sudsaver, that lint filter maybe could have been used in place of the ring to help with the splashing.

Post# 251010 , Reply# 12 11/29/2007 at 09:15 (5,986 days old) by trok_99 ()
Checkrate/Likes Tom, Your description of the ring is flawless and brings back memories. The raised collar and the shine to match the new black bakelite is clear as a bell in my mind. I'm not sure why I only came across the one. I knew several ppl with early 60"s KM's w/ preg roto's w/ suds savers that did not have them. I wish I could have seen the ring on a machine with a scrubber cap or detergent cup.....my memory is locked on the ring only being on a roto-swirl with a plastic black cap with the big "K". The closest thing I've ever seen to the ring is the lint chaser ring on a frigidaire, although the splash ring was much larger.

Post# 251012 , Reply# 13 11/29/2007 at 09:19 (5,986 days old) by gyrafoam (Wytheville, VA)
Checkrate/Likes *Tom-----* One only has to take a ride on the MARTA rail, running underground through downtown (Atlanta) to see that the statement "all of Atlanta is built on a table of granite" is correct! No wonder it took all those years of dynamite blasting to get the damn tunnel done! "Yankee basement"---too funny. I remember well, the generation of old Atlantans that blamed anything and everything on the "Yankees". The animosity from the Civil War was so strong. The mention of a Whirly agitator-mounted lint filter triggered a memory and I remember seeing one on an early 60's Whirly----perhaps kind of BOL. I wonder if any of these old implements survives? Perhaps cast-off in some obscure junk store or appliance repair shop somewhere.

Post# 251024 , Reply# 14 11/29/2007 at 11:13 (5,986 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)
Checkrate/Likes Trok, you would not see the ring after they put the two speed motor in the machines because the suds return was always done on low speed to prevent the splashng. Steve, John found a couple of these new in the box a few years ago. Whirlpool advertised them to their sales people saying that they could sell them to customers to update their machines, both automatic and wringer. A manager of a Georgia Power Company Store told me of a woman who lived in Lithonia, "where there was so much granite under the ground that every time it stormed some house got struck by lighting." She had just bought a new electric stove and had to heavy up her electrical service to install it. She was putting a berry pie in the oven when lightning hit. The bake element light up like the sun and she dropped the pie into the hot oven. She called him and was complaining about the mess when he told her that the stove probably saved her house. The stove circuit was large enough to carry the current where it went through the bake element, and probably the thermostat as well, instead of setting the house on fire. How did your Bubbie's wash girl do the washing outside during the winter in Boston? "dibukim" in the water... I love it.

Post# 251046 , Reply# 15 11/29/2007 at 12:38 (5,986 days old) by vivalalavatrice ()
Checkrate/Likes *Thanks dear friends! :-)* ... really intriguing to read all those "memories"...but may someone of you post some pix?

Post# 251049 , Reply# 16 11/29/2007 at 12:53 (5,986 days old) by gyrafoam (Wytheville, VA)
Checkrate/Likes *Tom-----* My grandparents were in Brooklyn, and I'm sure they somehow were able to get the wash done to bobe's satisfaction even in the winter. I also recall there were shut-off valves for the sinks on the inside of the basement wall which likely came in handy in the winter. I would have hated to be that "girl" as I don't think they were paid much in those days either. Back in the day, I had relatives that lived in a house on Johnson Rd. just north of the intersection where Lenox road branches off of Highland Ave. Not far north was an A&P Grocery with a giant television tower behind it. That thing used to get hit in thunderstorms all the time, and was quite attention-getting. Most times the power went out as well. Talk about dibukim----as a child I was scared to death! Funny thing, my folks are long gone now, yet those blue and white awnings and the perpetual Cadillac-in-the-driveway remain! I get a laugh out of it every time I pass by. They have now built three more tall towers in that area. The neighbors must not be too thrilled to live in such a highly-charged area, so to speak, not to mention the propensity to attract lightning strikes. Must be very interesting around there in a really strong summers storm! From my back porch at my new home here in Roanoke I can spot three large water towers on the neighboring ridge about eight blocks away from my house. I think I will now find out what it is like to live near such lightning rods! Better them than me.

Post# 251067 , Reply# 17 11/29/2007 at 13:57 (5,986 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)
Checkrate/Likes *The Agitator Mounted Lint Filters* Were used over here in the Semi Auto machines up until 1979 and in the BOL Automatics, up until about 1972. They only work on the highest water level. You just unscrew the agitator cap, fit the filter over the surgilator fins and screw the cap back down. It does make the opening into the washer pretty tight though. Sorry about the stains, I've never used it and it needs a good soak in bleach.

Post# 251068 , Reply# 18 11/29/2007 at 13:58 (5,986 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)
Checkrate/Likes *Picture 2* The water is scooped up by ramps through the slots in the top

Post# 251069 , Reply# 19 11/29/2007 at 13:59 (5,986 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)
Checkrate/Likes *On the underside* You can see the ramps that the water runs up.

Post# 251082 , Reply# 20 11/29/2007 at 15:28 (5,986 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY)
Checkrate/Likes *Diomede, Here's some Background Information for you and* During the 1940's before the advent of top-loading automatics, most people who did their laundry at home rather than sending it out used conventional (wringer) washers or Easy Spindriers. Washday began with a full tub of very hot water, a full dose of soap or detergent, and a cup of Clorox. The first load was either lightly soiled white clothes or white sheets, which in fastidious households where the sheets were changed weekly and baths taken nightly, produced laughably clean water. Some us of clearly remember exactly how pure, hot, and fragrant this so called " dirty water" was. To dump it or drain it or throw it after a single ten minute use was unthinkable, wasteful, sinful--a damn rotten shame. People were used to doing a few loads in the same water. Remember, you were not storing water, or letting it cool, or pumping it back and forth. So in a sense, it was pristine. A long culture of preserving water and soap was strong, universal, and very much in force. So when the first TL automatics appeared in the late forties, the ingrained practice of using nice, clean, hot, sudsy water could not be ignored by savvy manufacturers. Hence, the very first Whirlpools and Kenmores had suds-savers that were not special or separate cycles requiring you to stand by or return to the machine. Indeed, they were part of the cycle. The control dial on these early machines began with "Suds" followed automatically by the wash, etc. More later. Promise. This is my most favorite topic in all washerophilia, tied, of course, with spray rinsing CLICK HERE TO GO TO mickeyd's LINK

Post# 251084 , Reply# 21 11/29/2007 at 15:46 (5,986 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill Home of the RailwayTrials Merseyside,UK)
Checkrate/Likes *Parnall Spin Wash* Hi Diomede, Hope thee are okay for you, Mike

Post# 251086 , Reply# 22 11/29/2007 at 15:47 (5,986 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill Home of the RailwayTrials Merseyside,UK)
Checkrate/Likes *4 Ways Washing*

Post# 251088 , Reply# 23 11/29/2007 at 15:48 (5,986 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill Home of the RailwayTrials Merseyside,UK)
Checkrate/Likes *Instructions*

Post# 251090 , Reply# 24 11/29/2007 at 15:48 (5,986 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill Home of the RailwayTrials Merseyside,UK)
Checkrate/Likes *Spin to Save...!!!!*

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