Thread Number: 1497
Hoover Cadet A1089 Repair Question 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 59637   3/10/2005 at 11:10 (6,979 days old) by Tempest8008 ()        

Fascinating little apartment size top loader, but I'm having some operational issues I'd like to ask for some help on.


The agitator is a horizontal flanged spinner at the bottom of the basket. Sometimes, it will spin VERY slowly, even with a light load in it.

The belt does not appear to be slipping, and it has plenty of power on the spin cycle.

It has a double shaft, one inside the other. The inner shaft does the agitating, the outer shaft does the basket spinning, and a very simple clutch alternates between the two modes.

I'm starting to think it might be the bearings for that inner shaft.

Anyone have any 'tests' I can do to narrow down the problem?

The inner shaft does turn by hand; you can manually turn it, but it's not what I'd call 'easy' to turn...it doesn't take a wrench and sweat, but you do have to grab hold of it and give it some elbow grease to get it to turn.

Anyone have any ideas on what I could try?




Post# 59664 , Reply# 1   3/10/2005 at 16:02 (6,979 days old) by westytoploader ()        

Do you have any pictures of it that you could possibly post?

I have a GE Portable with a bottom impeller and solenoid-controlled clutch for wash/spin like yours. They could be related and then I could help.

--Austin

Post# 59665 , Reply# 2   3/10/2005 at 16:03 (6,979 days old) by westytoploader ()        

As a follow-up, yes, I believe you have bad impeller bearings. I can turn my GE's impeller very easily by hand and it will spin for a second.

Post# 59671 , Reply# 3   3/10/2005 at 17:37 (6,979 days old) by arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)        

Greetings!

Whats a little Hoover Cadet doing all the way in Canada?

This was an Australian market model, based on a Sanyo machine, there was a Cadet, and a slightly bigger Premier, later on the Premier was locally made, with an agitator that washed on a impeller principle (which was fun fun fun too BTW).

How did you get a hold on this fantastic little machine? I love how the styling was the same as the full size machines, making this baby all the more cuter.

Post# 59672 , Reply# 4   3/10/2005 at 17:38 (6,979 days old) by arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)        

oops! Forgot the picture!

Post# 59735 , Reply# 5   3/11/2005 at 07:56 (6,978 days old) by gizmo (Victoria, Australia)        

Hi Tempest

These machines are made in Japan by Sanyo, there was a tiny Sanyo version sold in USA too, one member or two has one if I recall so spares may be available in USA and Canada.

I too thought the Cadet was an Australia only model, is yours 240 volt or 120 volt? Was it sold new in Canada or is it an import?

I have a couple of dead ones, one Sanyo and one Hoover Cadet. They are to be thrown out soon but I am happy to rescue parts for you and post them, I will give you the parts and you can reimburse me for postage.

I suspect the clutch is faulty, or possibly the clutch/brake solenoid. To diagnose:

When it starts the spin cycle, you should hear a pretty loud "clang" as the solenoid engages. This releases the brake which allows the clutch to engage and drive the outer (spin) shaft. If you don't hear the loud solenoid noise, the solenoid is probably faulty. It is a common fault and I don't have a good one, plus mine would be 240 volt. Someone might have a suggestion for a suitable replacement.
If you do hear the solenoid engage with a good solid clang, then the clutch is probably gone. They are generally pretty reliable but can wear out eventually. I would have a used spare. Usually they make an odd noise, sort of scraping and howling if they are worn and not engaging properly. If this is the fault, the impeller will still be turning inside but the drum won't be turning much as the clutch is failing to grip the spin shaft to the impeller shaft. (same thing happens with the solenoid fault too, unfortunately...)
Another possible fault is a bad motor or capacitor, which would cause the motor to operate weakly, but if it still agitates the clothes vigorously then the motor and capacitor are fine.
Good luck, I'm happy to advise further after you investigate.



Chris

Post# 59745 , Reply# 6   3/11/2005 at 10:08 (6,978 days old) by Tempest8008 ()        

That's fantastic!
Thanks for all the replies.

Believe it or not, I found this and an apartment sized Hoover drier on top of a snowbank. They'd both been chucked out, so I rescued them. My wife has been using a Hoover Twintub now for ages, and it was nice finding something you could literally turn on and walk away from.

The Twintub has got a flanged vertical spinner on the back wall of the wash tub, and a separate spinning compartment. The only problem with using it is it can get a bit messy, as you have to manually move clothes from one tub to the other. But it cleans the clothes great!

I'll post pictures when I get home and take some...but now, back to the Cadet.

The solenoid for the clutch works beautifully. A nice solid "CHUNK" noise, and with the back off you can see the clutch pull away to allow the basket to spin...and it spins the living heck out of the clothes, so I don't think it's a problem with the motor, because if anything it'll be tougher to spin a full basket of wet clothes than it will to agitate.

Thanks to Chris and everyone for the replies...I'll post pictures soon...and I may take you up on those parts Chris, although I'll have to delve into the world of international postage...you are, literally, on the other side of the planet!

We're on 110V in Canada, and it looks to me like the motor and solenoid are original. You (the experts) can tell me once I post some pics. Maybe I can post a short (12sec) video of the washer in action on my website and you can download and view it from there, it is a lot of fun to watch when it's working 100%.

Oh, another quick diagnostic tidbit. If you leave the washer for a while it seems to work fine for a time. After about one load, it starts to do the same problem. The impeller rotates very slowly, but if you reach in a give it a quick twist, it will start going fast again, until it stops to go the other direction.

Post# 59810 , Reply# 7   3/12/2005 at 07:24 (6,978 days old) by gizmo (Victoria, Australia)        

aaah, that's different.

It sounds like the motor or capacitor is faulty. If it starts sluggish for both agitation and spin, but if you give it a push start by hand it picks up OK, then my guess is capacitor or motor, or possibly timer.
Quick explanation:
There are two windings in the motor. The capacitor is an electronic device which in this installation forms a sort of delay in the circuit. Whenever the motor is activated, either wash or spin, the motor's two windings are both energized, one directly and one via the capacitor. the "delay" caused by the capacitor means that the AC cycles in the two windings are now different and react with each other to cause rotation of the motor. The direction of rotation is determined by which of the windings has the capacitor in its circuit. It is a cheap and simple way of making a reversible motor.
Your fault is that only one of the windings is being energized, or that one is being fully energized and one only partly. Ths is caused by either a bad winding in the motor, a faulty capacitor, or a poor contact in the timer. I'd try the capacitor first, as unless you can find a second hand motor or timer, the machine wouldn't be worth fixing.

An easy test to see if it's the timer (not very reliable test but worth a try) is to wait till the machine is misbehaving, then try tapping and wiggling the timer knob, or tapping the control panel all around the timer knob reasonably firmly. If the timer has an intermittent connection, you can sometimes get it to make contact by banging around the timer. If the machine even briefly surges into life, I'd be suspecting the timer.

It's not looking good, I doubt the machine is worth repairing unless you can source second hand parts and all my parts are 240 volt so would not be suitable. A clutch, as a mechanical item is the same in both voltage machines, but capacitors, motors and timers are all different in Aus and USA/Canada spec.

I don't think it's the clutch any more.

Chris.

Post# 59811 , Reply# 8   3/12/2005 at 07:42 (6,977 days old) by gizmo (Victoria, Australia)        

Oh hang on, I just re-read your original post and I mis-understood you. I thought it wouldn't spin the clothes, now I realise you said the IMPELLER wasn't spinning properly. (Impeller not rotating strongly when washing)

When the impeller itself is playing up, does the motor, belt and pressed steel pulley all still rotate properly? Or do they rotate weakly?

If they rotate well, then the impeller is slipping on the shaft. The shaft has two flats and the impeller has matching flats underneath, the plastic flats can chew out which allows the shaft to turn without rotating the impeller. I'd probably have a good one of those - might be blue (Sanyo) instead of beige (Hoover).

Check too that the pressed metal pulley is tight on the impeller shaft. the nut holding the pulley can come loose and the square hole inside the pulley can chew out so it slips on the shaft.

If they don't rotate well, then I'd guess your diagnosis of inner shaft bearing seized is correct,though I have never seen it happen before. You'd have to remove impeller, stainless steel washer underneath (often recessed and hard to get out) then prise out the seal or seals, get some penetrating oil down between the inner and outer shafts, then some thicker long lasting oil, then replace the seal(s) with new ones - you can take the old ones to a bearing and seal supplier to match your sample, as they are just a simple oil seal. A lot of fiddling, though.

It could still be the clutch, too. If the impeller shaft is tight and difficult to turn, remove the nut, pulley, plastic clutch cover and clutch spring. If it is now easy to turn, the clutch spring is cactus. (It will probably look mangled)
If it is still hard to turn, it's shaft bearings.
Phew.
Chris.


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