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Which Magazine January Test Results
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Post# 257798   1/5/2008 at 06:20 (3,573 days old) by chrisbsuk (Bristol, uk)        

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I have just received the January issue of Which magazine, with the up to date washing machine test results. I don’t have a scanner, so cant scan it in; shout if you want to know how any model got on.
High level view is:
Their Top 5 Best Buys were (as Which’s Order):
Zanussi – Electrolux ZWF14581
Whirlpool SCW1012 (large capacity)
John Lewis JLWM1407
John Lewis JLWM1203
Miele Prestige Plus

At the very bottom of the pile was the Hoover 8122 Vision HD, with test score of 43% and 28th out of 28 machines on test

The Aqualtis came 16th, Insight came 7th and the Indesit Moon came 17th

Please feel free to get in touch for any more info!!
Cheers Guys
Chris





Post# 257894 , Reply# 1   1/5/2008 at 13:48 (3,572 days old) by mrx ()        

What's the methodology employed by Which?

It looks like Electrolux via all of their brands have done quite well...

Any further details on the Aqualtis range? Which models were tested etc?
(Vested interest as I own an Aqualtis AQGD 169S - 8KG Silver 1600 RPM)


Post# 257899 , Reply# 2   1/5/2008 at 14:48 (3,572 days old) by dj-gabriele ()        

Wow! Cool looking machine!

Post# 257907 , Reply# 3   1/5/2008 at 15:44 (3,572 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)        

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Which ones are tested best for rinsing ?
It`s nice to see posters from Bristol because I know somebody there, have been once in Bristol and had a beautyful stay.


Post# 257916 , Reply# 4   1/5/2008 at 16:13 (3,572 days old) by chrisbsuk (Bristol, uk)        

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Mr X:
they tested 2 aqualtis machines - your one (the 8kg model) came 16th and the 7.5kg model, with 1200 spin came 21st.

They have mentioned that to get decent results from this machine, you have to select the White's cycle for everything, and reduce the temp accordingly. the other cycles are designed for light soiling i.e. sweat. Hotpoint have been interviewed for this report and agree with Which's findings; although i guess their tests are far more harsh than what the average machine would have to deal with on a daily basis

Mr Boilwash:
The best machine on test for rinsing was the Indesit Moon!!! it was the only machine to get 5 stars - nothing got four stars then it was Miele, LG, Servis, AEG who got three stars. Two stars were Whirlpool, Electra, Candy, One star was Hoover, Maytag, Hotpoint Aqualtis, Zanussi, John Lewis


Post# 257924 , Reply# 5   1/5/2008 at 16:24 (3,572 days old) by dyson2drums (United Kingdom)        
dyson contrarotator

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Hi
Have you got the results from the past for the dyson contrarotator?
Thanks


Post# 257953 , Reply# 6   1/5/2008 at 18:53 (3,572 days old) by bearpeter ()        
Indesit getting 5 stars for rinsing?????

Either Indesit have got their act together (doubtful) or someone got a backhander!!!
I know I have a BOL indesit (not a year old and not my choice of machine) but I have to put EVERY load through another 2 rinses to get a satisfactory result. Does the Moon do more than 2 rinses as standard?
I need to be convinced before I buy an Indesit...


Post# 257968 , Reply# 7   1/5/2008 at 19:41 (3,572 days old) by funguy10 ()        
Dyson Contrarotator results

They cannot rate the Dyson Contrarotator as it is currently not in production.

Post# 257969 , Reply# 8   1/5/2008 at 19:47 (3,572 days old) by mrx ()        

The Moon has a suds/turbidity sensor and rinses until the water runs clear there's no set number of rinses!

There are a couple of things on the Aqualtis which Which? may not have taken into account.

The Coloureds cottons cycle is not all that long, about 1:35 and quite effective for normal soiling.

However you have 2 additional options : "Super Wash" and "Extra Rinse".

Super wash lengthens the was cycle time and gives it a much more aggressive tumbling pattern. It takes the clothes up to near distribution speeds every so often. I'm not sure if it increases the water level too, although it might. - The results with this extra option are VERY impressive even with very bad staining.
I wonder if Which actually tested with that option on?

Extra rinse, does exactly what it says on the tin - adds an extra rinse!
It's worth remembering it does pretty serious interim spins too - I've had no issues with rinsing at all really.




Post# 258033 , Reply# 9   1/6/2008 at 02:24 (3,572 days old) by bearpeter ()        
BOL Indesit...

HAve to say in this machines favour, the 60 degree cottons wash is very good. It does around 4 distribution spins during the wash and that seems to do a great job on my whites. I still have to do a further 2 rinses! IIRC the effectiveness of the rinses does have some bearing on the overall quality of the wash. Hope Indesit/ hotpoint can start a new trend of cheap washers giving good results!!!

Post# 258053 , Reply# 10   1/6/2008 at 06:53 (3,572 days old) by mrx ()        

I still don't think you can generalise about the Hotpoint and other Indesit brands though as they span such a range of prices.

From quite upper-middle end to really BOL stuff at the lower end.

Realistically they ought to hive their better machines off into a single brand, perhaps Hotpoint-Ariston and then use Indesit for the cheaper stuff rather than mixing it all up with cheap and expensive machines using both brands.

i.e. Indesit Moon really ought to be Hotpoint-Ariston Moon
and the various cheap Hotpoint-Aristons ought to become Indesit!


Post# 258152 , Reply# 11   1/6/2008 at 16:14 (3,571 days old) by dyson2drums (United Kingdom)        
dyson contrarotator results from the past!

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Hi
I would like the dyson contrarotator results from the past?
Thanks


Post# 258366 , Reply# 12   1/7/2008 at 09:42 (3,570 days old) by superelectronic (London, UK)        
Hoover Vision HD at the bottom of the pile

So what was so wrong about the Hoover? Seems a shame the most interesting and innovative machine to come out in 2007 IMHO doing so badly. I hope it's not the usual Hoover story of "great idea - poorly executed". From what we've been shown here it seems like a decent machine on the whole - nice water levels for example. Not sure I'd really want to jam 8kg of clothes in that drum and the programs seem slightly odd; calling a program "Acrylics" sounds more 1977 than 2007 to me. Does anyone know if the basic models have an easy care cycle? I can't see clearly from any of the pics I've come across. Praise is defintely due for making machines that aren't stupidly deep too - so often overlooked by the other manufacturers and can really narrow choice if the plumbing's behind the washer under a worktop in a corner.

Funnily enough, I've just been to my local Currys and there was a distinct lack of the Vision HD, though a Nextra 8kg has appeared...so what's the name of the game?

Anyway, enough musing from me - I'm supposed to be looking for a job!

Bye!

Al


Post# 258372 , Reply# 13   1/7/2008 at 10:08 (3,570 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        

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I'm suprised the Hoover Vision HD was at the bottom of the pile! I have the 1600 8kg Vision HD Machine and I must say it outperforms all my other washers! Never have I had a machine where you can program high water levels for cotton washes, and if you like have 5 half-way up the door rinses, all with interim Spins.
Its strange though the drum on it is huge, vastly bigger than my old Zanussi in all ways, width, depth e.t.c, but the machine itself is slightly less deep than previous ones which is quite intresting I think!
Like I say I really cannot fault this machine which is rare because I'm usually the first to fault something LOL

Would be very intresting to see what problems theyve found with it!!

Richard


Post# 258373 , Reply# 14   1/7/2008 at 10:09 (3,570 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        
Programs

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A bit fuzzy but you get the idea lol!

Post# 258386 , Reply# 15   1/7/2008 at 11:04 (3,570 days old) by islingtonsteve ()        

I'm with you on that one samsungfl. I had the older vison 8kg 1400 and bought the newer 9kg vision with invertor motor and I would say that they are the best machines I've had.
The water levels are huge, the interim spins fast and you can get upto 5 high level rinses. I subscribed to which online last night as i wanted to see what they had scored it so low and to be honest I can't really tell you apart from the say it has terrible rinsing. but with all that water and fast spins after the wash and inbetween rinses I just can't see it.

They also said that it has one of the worst water extractions they had seen. Again, not sure how they come to this as I have had the 1400 models which spind for nearly 13 mins on the final. 3 being 600-800, the a constant 1000 for 4 mins, upto 1200 for four mins and then 1400 for 2 mins. Even if you take into account that it's a 1200 model and cancel the last 2 mins that still a good spin cycle. That coupled with the large drum has given the best water extaction I have ever known.. Am wondered if they have scored the spin of the quick wash, which only spins at 800.. I can't think of anything else other than a mistake has been made.
It scored as one of the best for cottons washing and 30C.
Another puzzling thing is that on all the reports for the bosch machines it mentions that rinsing isn't v ery good, but you can add an extra rinse if needed making it better - but no mention of the sensitive care button on the vision that adds upto another three rinses!
it's strange that they tested the bottom of the line vision as well whereas every other make includes a top of the line model tested as well!


Post# 258398 , Reply# 16   1/7/2008 at 12:56 (3,570 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        
Very Strange!

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I think its really bad that due to incorrect testing they can come up with theories like this about Hoover Vision, Because we all know they are rather good LOL! Ah I must ask what's the Inverter Motor like on yours!? Mine has a Brush Motor but Ive been shocked with it as its not one of those typical noisy screechy ones, just hums away whilst washing, and even on spin you cant hear it going really till its at about 400 or so!! Distribution speed always sounds great on it!

Richard


Post# 258409 , Reply# 17   1/7/2008 at 14:13 (3,570 days old) by mrx ()        

I'm wondering if the Aqualtis scored poorly as by default it does a shorter wash than most machines. If you want a longer coloured cottons wash you have to opt for super wash ...

Makes perfect sense to me as most people do unnecessarily long washes most of the time...

The likes of Miele tends to have a default long cycle with a 'short' button...

So, the default colour cotton wash on the aqualtis for example is similar to a Miele 40C wash with the short option selected...

I don't necessarily think some of the tests are a fair comparison unless you select identical cycles.


Post# 258448 , Reply# 18   1/7/2008 at 17:32 (3,570 days old) by dascot (Scotland)        

Which? test the standard cycles, and they usually mention if a modifier will help with any problems at all.

The new Bosch and Siemens machines, along with some of the Electrolux group and Miele machines, seem to be getting better at rinsing.


Post# 258492 , Reply# 19   1/7/2008 at 21:18 (3,570 days old) by carlstock ()        

Hi! :)

I think this has been touched on here already, but Which?’s testing does not always taken into account certain unique features present in certain models.

Another issue is that testing can only show certain things when you test things in a certain way! :) Does that make any sense? :) hehe :)

I know in the past that Dyson had serious issues with Which? when it came to the testing of their washing machines, and I have to say that I sided with Dyson on this, despite being a Which? subscriber. Also, at the time, I owned a Bosch, and Which? rated Bosch models at the time better than the Dyson, so I could hardly be called biased! :) I remember Dyson putting out advertisements in newspapers, and they were right – Which? did not test the Dyson machine in light of its unique features, and what Which? did instead was level all machines down to make it ‘fair’, which it wasn’t! After all, the other machines could not help being smaller than the Dyson, but the fact is they were! :)

Also, Which?’s testing does not always conform to a certain industry standards, and Dyson picked up on this some time ago. Whilst I respect Which?, I do not take their results as gospel. Indeed, when it comes to consumer electronics, I am afraid they are not really geared up to it – their idea of what sounds or looks good is completely at odds with what I *know* is good, especially in terms of quality products. However, everyone’s eyes and ears are different, but AV equipment is a somewhat specialist area, as are appliances, really.

I think, still, that the best people to ask are engineers and us lot – we know whats we wants! hehe :)

I must say, though, that in areas, including appliances, Which? do a great deal of good work, especially in terms of safety issues and finding safety problems in many products.


Post# 258657 , Reply# 20   1/8/2008 at 15:25 (3,569 days old) by newwave1 (Lincoln, United Kingdom)        

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I'm really impressed with the indesit moon! 5star rating for rinsing! Thats my main thing i have to have in a machine! Like i said in the indesit thread, if i were to get one, i'd replace the door with an ordinary indesit door and stick with 2-in-1 detergent when using it!

Though most of the time which are very good in their testing, i do wonder why they put odd models in their, like they have done with the hoover vision, it's unfair!

It seems their testing on the vision was inaccurate, as you guys who have one seem very impressed!

Having looked at the manuals on the new zanussis they are using slightly more water (thankfully).

I'm also surprized with the outcome of the TOL aqualtis, i'd say its a technically sound machine. Im very happy with my WT960 too its one of the best machines i've ever owned, and so far has proved trouble free!

Hopefully by next year they will be using even more water!

As i believe it was MRX who said on his aqualtis thread, it is more efficient to wash 8kg of washing in plenty of water than t oo split two loads into a 5kg machine that tumbles around in a puddle of water!

Darren


Post# 258660 , Reply# 21   1/8/2008 at 16:04 (3,569 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        
More Water.....!

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Yeah I agree Darren, with both the Indesit Moon and the Hoover Vision! The Indesit is such a sleek machine, but fact you cant see through the door turns me right off!
On the subject of water throught I'd upload a pic of the Hoover reaching an all time high in Rinse water levels! I was shocked! It seems the bigger the load, the more water it uses! However I thought I'd already seen it do its Max water level.. Until today!! :D

Richard


Post# 258759 , Reply# 22   1/9/2008 at 03:55 (3,569 days old) by islingtonsteve ()        

It's also strange that there seems to be no consistency within the results. The hoover vision 8122( which there is no pic and I can't find on the net) scored 43% overall testing. The hoover vision 812 model which has exactly the same specs as the above model ( 1200 spin, 8kg drum, same prgrams , features etc) scores 54%.
They mark a nextra washing machine 1 star for rinsing, yet another nextra washer/dryer 5 stars for rinsing! Wouldn't these machines all being from the same range have near identical rinse actions?

Also seems insane that that comment that the hotpoint aqualtis is reasonably quiet and yet the bosch with a bursh motor is marked quieter! how can that be?


Post# 258766 , Reply# 23   1/9/2008 at 05:54 (3,569 days old) by superelectronic (London, UK)        
Is it the Hoover Washer or the Hoover Dam?

Bleedin' Ada, Richard - I hope the Vision's got a strong door gasket! It's giving me palpitations just looking at it!!

Does the machine give two deep rinses as standard or was that with the 5 rinse Sensitive Care option?

Al


Post# 258794 , Reply# 24   1/9/2008 at 10:18 (3,568 days old) by dyson2drums (United Kingdom)        
hoover vision

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Hi
last years hoover vision VHD812/4/6 had the powerjet and they also did distribution spins!
The new hoover vision VHD8122/4/6 don't have a power jet and distribution washes and rinses!
Thanks


Post# 258796 , Reply# 25   1/9/2008 at 10:45 (3,568 days old) by mrwash (Germany)        

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And why is that?

Post# 258821 , Reply# 26   1/9/2008 at 12:35 (3,568 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        

samsungfl's profile picture
Hi Al! The pic of the Hoover vision was it on a Non-fast cottons cycle which does 2 high level rinses as standard, or if your washing a large load it does 3! Howwever if you add the Sensitive Care option to the cycle it does a higher water level wash, and 5 rinses all at the level in the pic above , all with interim spins its tottaly amazing! Washings never come out feeling as soft and like-new as it does now!

Dyson2drums : Yeah thats correct Hoover have done away with the Powerjet Technology but they still distribute with water every now and then during the drain out of wash/rinse water on selected programs! I'm slightly glad that they have stopped using the power jet on their washers as ive had a bad experience with a Zanussi Jetsystem (previous machine) the Jet on that quite frequnetly produced extra foam during the wash and esspecially the rinse cycles which defeats the object of trying to rinse a load when at the beggining of the cycle it pours out a load of sudsy water over the clothes, then continues to creat more foam! Maybe the Hoover Vision Powerjets were diffrent to this!? To be honest though I dont think there is any subsitute to just using a decent amount of water to wash and rinse clothes properly in!

Richard


Post# 258987 , Reply# 27   1/10/2008 at 06:45 (3,568 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
Which Methodology!!

chestermikeuk's profile picture
Very interesting report this time, I dispair at the thought of joe public taking it as gospel!!!, just seems to be so many disparities between makes & models etc, and most models including Miele and MaytagAsko get slated for rinsing!!

I`ve actually written to them asking how they determine these results?? it must be based on lab specific ratios like alkaline testing etc...I rarely use super rinse, dose accordingly to load, and never have had a percieved problem with rinse water etc...perhaps we had better start buying chemical kits for home use to see what happens!!!

I would love for them to ask a group of like minded washer bods to come in for a day and observe/be part of testing etc...

Scratching head, not from rinsewater, Mike



Post# 258995 , Reply# 28   1/10/2008 at 07:31 (3,567 days old) by seamusuk (Dover Kent UK)        
Richard...

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Are you sure you havent transplanted a Logic pressure switch into that lol!!

Seamus


Post# 259002 , Reply# 29   1/10/2008 at 08:35 (3,567 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        

samsungfl's profile picture
Seamus - LOL yeah the water level is crazy isnt it! I didnt think it was going to stop filling :D:D!! Lovin it though, really rinses stuff hehe :D! I'll take a few more pics when it does a rinse level like that again! Probably will when I do some towels!


Richard


Post# 259334 , Reply# 30   1/11/2008 at 17:46 (3,566 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        
More Water!!

samsungfl's profile picture
LOL more palpitations for you Al! Washed a huge load of Towels and Bedding and got very very high rinses :D:D

Post# 259335 , Reply# 31   1/11/2008 at 17:48 (3,566 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        
Tumbling Away....

samsungfl's profile picture
Rinsing away - Cottons 60c + Prewash and Stain Blaster

Post# 259345 , Reply# 32   1/11/2008 at 19:10 (3,566 days old) by carlstock ()        

*Faints* ;)

Richard! Goodness me! That is almost ungodly! LOL ;)

Very interesting to see, though. :) Seamus, take that Logic pressure switch out at once! ;) I know we talk about going back to the olden days, but that is just mad! ;)

And imagine if that flooded! Aaarrggghhh! ;) Sea levels would rise… in Richard’s kitchen… and he’d be stranded! ;)

Carl :)


Post# 259351 , Reply# 33   1/11/2008 at 20:24 (3,566 days old) by rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Hoover Vision

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I was wondering about the very high water levels, and the fact the door catch is not directly opposite the door hinge...

Does the bottom of the door flex alarmingly as the laundry and water push against the door glass?

The old Hoover 'New Wave' sometimes did that.


Post# 259370 , Reply# 34   1/12/2008 at 05:39 (3,566 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        

samsungfl's profile picture
Hiya, No thats not been a problem on this machine thankfully, I wouldnt be to impressed if it did that LOL however my machine from 2004 or thereabouts (Samsung) had an angled door catch and that didnt seem to have any adverse effect on it, even if it did work with the door open in the end hehe LOL!!

Richard


Post# 259511 , Reply# 35   1/12/2008 at 19:52 (3,565 days old) by mrx ()        

I don't know about those Which results. If the Aqualtis was rated less quiet than any other machine I'd be very surprised. I have an 8kg silver aqualtis and I have to say it is ridiculously quiet. I can't even tell the machine's on. If a brush-motor based washer beat it I would be seriously surprised. The key feature of the machine is that it operates almost completely silently!!! It would be nuts to suggest that any brush-motor based machine could possibly out perform it in terms of silence!!

Also, those really high level rinses are not necessarily any more effective. The key to good rinsing is to move a lot of water through the clothes. This means saturating them and spinning them. Most machines do a decent job on this, particularly if they have an extra rinse / rinse plus option selected.

I know our Aqualtis with extra rinse selected does an absolutely excellent job of rinsing the laundry. I have had no complaints whatsoever about its rinsing performance.

The Fast wash is a little unimpressive at rinsing, but then so are almost all quickwash cycles I've come across. They usually do minimal rinsing to save time.

I honestly don't know how they could rate Miele as poor at rinsing!!! Those machines produce FLAWLESS results every time without any issue.

Perhaps they were over-loading the machines with detergent??

It seems a very odd set of results to come up with though.


Post# 259594 , Reply# 36   1/13/2008 at 11:18 (3,564 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        

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Hmmm I dont really understand your argument there mrx, Which didnt say that your 8kg Aqualtis was noiser than a machine with a Brush Motor :S:S!

And on the water level side, in the past few years ive had quite a few washers which have all been very diffrent, some using little water to rinse in, doing a poor job, another having very poor intermitten spins, and finally the zanussi which often used a pumpfull of water to rinse in without any spins in between quite often.

Now I have the Hoover Vision clothes some out feeling much softer and like-new as the detergent has been rinsed out, I believe that the more water used, the greater the dilution of water to detergent, and this, with fast interim spins as the Hoover Vision does produce very good results which work for me. However I'm not saying machines that use little water are poor at rinsing, this is just my own personal experience with recent washers :)

Richard


Post# 259597 , Reply# 37   1/13/2008 at 11:43 (3,564 days old) by lavamat_jon (-)        

dyson2drums - I have a copy of the 2006 (I think) Which? test where the Dyson was rated no1, with Miele and Bosch following. I have the articles scanned into my computer somewhere so will try and dig them out and upload them :-).

Mrx - I do agree with you re the water - although I think it's fun to see washers use a lot of water, our Miele and my old AEG 86741 are able to rinse clothes thoroughly without wasting too much water - thanks to a combination of strong fast interim spins and using enough water to saturate the load. The 2 standard low rinses on mum's Miele rinses just as well as our old Bosch did with 4 rinses, and better than the Hotpoint and Creda machines we had which used a lot more water. Our washer allows you to set high water levels if you need them, but I've never found the need to use them more than just for fun, seems a bit of a waste to me IMO when using much less does the job just as well.

Jon


Post# 259616 , Reply# 38   1/13/2008 at 13:08 (3,564 days old) by mrx ()        
samsungfl

The noise level argument was in reference to a post from islingtonsteve:

"Also seems insane that that comment that the hotpoint aqualtis is reasonably quiet and yet the bosch with a bursh motor is marked quieter! how can that be?"

Rinsing performance is a LOT more than just water level though. It's about well designed rinse cycles. I think the addition of AC 3-phase motors and better control systems makes up for a LOT as it means the machines can do various interim spins without taking hours to balance and rebalance etc. Previous mid-range machines often avoided doing too many interim spins as they'd take hours if they had to go through their distribution phases to get the load balanced. So, you ended up with poor results. The cycles seemed to just be the same as the older machines just with less water used. There was no real innovation in the way they worked until recently.

Miele machines have tended to be able to cope with interim spins due to the enormous weight of the drum which keeps it balanced and the novotronic control systems which they have had for many years. Other manufacturers are only catching up in recent years as such systems have become more economically justifiable.

The higher end machines like Hoover Vision HD, Ariston-Hotpoint Aqualtis, the new electroluxes etc can all cope with decent numbers of interim spins due to a complete redesign of how the machine works. The electronics and full 3-phase variable speed drives mean that they can keep the drum very well balanced and the time lost ramping up to spin is insignificant.

I remember we had an old Thor 850XD from the late 70s/early 80s which would only do ONE spin during the entire cottons cycle and wow did it do it spectacularly. The machine would just sit with the clothes on pump out for ages, then tumble a few times and go straight up to 850rpm thumping away as it did so!. It seemed to manage to stay on the floor thanks to enormous lumps of concrete inside and quite regularly moved around out of its place!!

That machine filled to 1/3 to half way up the door for the rinse cycle too as there were no interim spins possible, so it had to rely on dilution.
Rinsing performance was not brilliant but not bad either.


Post# 259623 , Reply# 39   1/13/2008 at 14:07 (3,564 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        

samsungfl's profile picture
Ah I see what you mean now I agree yeah, strange how they can quote a Bosch quieter than an Aqualtis with a Brushless motor! Really shows I think that their testing sometimes isnt up to scratch, their results arent very reliable in some aspects.

Yeah I agree with you there about rinsing performance is alot more than a water level, because like you say there are still many factors to take into consideration, In a rinse i must say the action is a very important role, As Ive realised over time that too much action causes just more un wanted foam in a rinse which isnt really what you want, also the interim spins like you mentioned :)

Richard


Post# 259625 , Reply# 40   1/13/2008 at 14:11 (3,564 days old) by lavamat_jon (-)        

Richard - did you ever find it really annoying when an otherwise clear rinse in your Zanussi would be really foamy cos of the Jetsystem? As fun as it is to watch I prefer how clothes are just saturated and "flexed" in rinsing through normal tumbling rather than just being sprayed at.

Jon


Post# 259626 , Reply# 41   1/13/2008 at 14:17 (3,564 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        

samsungfl's profile picture
Jon- Yeah I agree with you 100% on that! the Jetsystem just used to make rinsing a lot harder than what it needed to be at times. I wished it would just shut off when it came to rinses LOL!

And to make matters worse the Zanussi rarely topped the water level back up on rinses so the water level would be underneath the holes in the drum!So there was just enough water for the jetsystem to work!It wasnt until you heard the pump growling because it had nothing to pump through the jetsystem it would do such a stingy top up LOL! Not too sure if AEG'S were/are that bad though! Not my cuppa tea! LOL

Richard


Post# 259627 , Reply# 42   1/13/2008 at 14:21 (3,564 days old) by lavamat_jon (-)        

Actually my AEG wasn't too bad - water level would always be in the seal at it's lowest, and if you pressed sensitive care all rinses would of to where the glass became flat, except the 2nd rinse where it would go halfway up the door! Still, cos of the jetsystem it took it 3 or 4 rinses for it to rinse to the same level as the Miele can with just 2 rinses, so something's gotta be said there :-).

Jon


Post# 259635 , Reply# 43   1/13/2008 at 14:46 (3,564 days old) by rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Zanussi IZ16 rinsing

rolls_rapide's profile picture
On my machine, a small load just gets tumbled during the first two rinses, occasionally interspersed with distribution speed tumbling. Jetsystem operates all the time during the rinses, except if...

...the drum is fully loaded (jeans, towels). In which case the action is as mentioned above, plus additional action of low level spin bursts, for 5 seconds at a time.

When the spin bursts section of the programme is identified by the machine, the jetsystem pump stops for a second, then resumes.

The spin bursts DO create a creamy froth that seems to be difficult for the machine to pump either to the jetsystem, or to drain.


Post# 259647 , Reply# 44   1/13/2008 at 16:40 (3,564 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
Re-invent the Wheel...!!!

chestermikeuk's profile picture
It seems the rinsing issue is the biggy at the moment, I`m sure by cutting down and using less powder than manufacturers reccommended doses helps, ( which is always overscribed IMHO)
and using other stuff such as when the spinning between rinses, cut the motor leaver the pump on and start the cold fill, as the drum slows down the cold water is hitting the drum and spraying outer cabinet and flushing excess sudz away!!

I only realised the benefit of it the other day when listening to dads service quartz from the 80`s and seeing it do it. simple things just as altering one tiny bit of programming can make all the difference in performance...we await with baited breathe the all programmable Super Unimatic front loader!!! right Robert..!!!


Post# 259656 , Reply# 45   1/13/2008 at 17:04 (3,564 days old) by rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Rinsing

rolls_rapide's profile picture
My 1998 AEG seemed to trickle water very slowly down the back of the dispenser compartment during the intermediate spins (I think). Would this be correct? (I opened the drawer to take a look).

I presumed it was to flush out excess suds.


Post# 259730 , Reply# 46   1/14/2008 at 07:39 (3,563 days old) by newwave1 (Lincoln, United Kingdom)        

newwave1's profile picture
Having experienced my mothers aeg jet for 4years, even that can struggle with persil non bio! I gotta agree with jon, his miele rinses amazingly to say it does to low rinses and long interms. My newwave is always clear after its 1st lot of interms and that only uses a medium rinse water level and a medium tumble speed and that rinses brill! As does my zanny with its 4 rinses with lotsa water:D

Rinsing is my biggest factor in a machine, it has to rinse well. No buts. If you ask me its about getting things very wet, and moving the clothes through the water at the right speed. My wt960 is brill at rinsing, on cottons its gr8 with the 1200rpm interm and the high level rinsing, but when i do my colours i've been using reduced creases, with extra rinse which gives me 4 slow tumbles in a medium water level, and things rinse really well!

Im even more intregued by the moon now it's been given a 5star rinse rating, im tempted to find one on ebay and stick a normal indesit door on it:P just to try:D

One thing i like about my servis quartz is how it runs the inlet and the pump at the end of an inter spin to clear the pump!

Darren


Post# 260102 , Reply# 47   1/15/2008 at 18:01 (3,562 days old) by platinum6 ()        

I love reading Which? sometimes but I don't always believe in what they say because I know that all washing machines they test are good and that I'd stick firmly with my own thoughts about them.

It did however help me with one thing though, to find a new washing machine to replace the (not so) old Hotpoint in 2005. I got a small Which? washing machine guide through the post and the top 3 machines in there were a Dyson, a Siemens and a Bosch. The most reliable brands were AEG, Bosch, Miele and Tricity Bendix. No prizes for guessing what I got to replace the Hotpoint!

It is of course a Miele and for £899 in John Lewis brought me pure washing excellence and to date I still have no problems with it.

It washes and rinses very well on all programmes and it's top 1600RPM spin gets the load almost dry.

Which? is good but sometimes it's also good to trust your own mind and thoughts for getting a new washing machine.



Post# 260277 , Reply# 48   1/16/2008 at 18:18 (3,561 days old) by platinum6 ()        

On the subject of rinsing, it doesn't bother me with how well a washing machine rinses clothes but all that's really needed is about 3 or 4 rinses with a decent water level and fast interim spins in between them.

I so love the high water levels that the Hoover Vision does, it's simply a modern day Logic lol. It gives me the impression that it doesn't seem to have overflow protection. My Miele does and it works well. Does Hoover have it on any of their Vision models? Just for added protection?

I'm not criticizing, just wondering if they have it.

But it's good for big loads though, it looks like the water level has been altered by pouring extra water through the dispensing drawer, I do that with my Miele and it gives the load superior rinsing results. Even if I don't, it still rinses fine. No complaints there so why is Which? saying that today's machines don't rinse very well? It all sounds ridiculous to me lol.



Post# 260279 , Reply# 49   1/16/2008 at 18:31 (3,561 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        
it looks like the water level has been altered by pouring e

samsungfl's profile picture
Hi, I'm not too sure if the hoover vision has overflow protection i suspect it does though as it would be dangerous for a machine not to have it , I however do not add extra water to the rinse cycle which is the shocking thing, it only does that kind of levels when you fill it full though.

just for anyone who is suspicious of this rinse level ive made a video of it filling to that level by itself. No manual intervension needed.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO samsungfl's LINK


Post# 260329 , Reply# 50   1/17/2008 at 03:28 (3,561 days old) by islingtonsteve ()        

Hey Samsungfl

That is one hell of a rinse level. I have the 9KG hoover vision ( which is start a new post about in a sec) and i've never seen it do levels like that. I wonder if there's something up with the pressure switch on that. I'm all for good rinsing ( which the vision is great at) but that seems a bit extreme...


Post# 260368 , Reply# 51   1/17/2008 at 11:26 (3,560 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        

samsungfl's profile picture
LOL Yeah I agree! Try filling yours full, it might do the same level I didnt realise it could do it up until a week or so ago hehe!

Yeah Ive had my suspicions about the pressure switch to, but it kinda makes sense really because it only does it on enormous loads LOL If it did it all the time I'd call the engineer hehe :D

Richard


Post# 260432 , Reply# 52   1/17/2008 at 18:40 (3,560 days old) by platinum6 ()        

You know what, these high-end Hoover Visions aren't too bad. I'd buy 1 mainly for the nice water levels lol. This should teach all the other brands a thing or 2 about having the right water levels for rinsing.

On my Miele, the water level varies for rinsing depending on the programme and uses the same level on every rinse. How cool is that?

In it's instruction book, it tells me what water levels it'll use in the main-wash and the rinses and although where it says medium level, I expect the level of water to just come up to the glass but instead manages to fill below it. But like I said before, rinsing performance is superb, I just can't fault it!

I think today's machines should do spin-rinsing like the Hoover New-Wave did. This gave better overall rinsing, can't think why no one does it now lol. It's awesome!





Post# 260446 , Reply# 53   1/17/2008 at 19:45 (3,560 days old) by rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

rolls_rapide's profile picture
The problem with the New Waves (at least the early models) was that the 4 speed levels, 600, 800, 1000, and max rpm were not always followed.

My mother had the AC178 1300 'New Wave' and it sometimes omitted the two faster speeds, instead timing-out and progressing into the next rinse-fill.

On the occasions it did this, I suspect it had suds-lock that prevented the pressure switch resetting itself.

Mum used to use Ariel 'Future' concentrated powder that seemed to foam up.


Post# 260492 , Reply# 54   1/18/2008 at 02:10 (3,560 days old) by newwave1 (Lincoln, United Kingdom)        
Newwave

newwave1's profile picture
Ahh yes my dear newwave! When all the spins complete the rinse that follows is as clear as day. However sometimes because of the minimal tubgap the foam can really kick up! You have to cut the dosage in half for these machines.

spinrinsing litterally applied to the fast interm spins. the machine still used a decent amount of water, that i'd call a medium level of water. but the actual spin was only in the wash!

I'm lookin forward to using it again soon i haven't had time for my collection lately!

Darren


Post# 260493 , Reply# 55   1/18/2008 at 02:24 (3,560 days old) by islingtonsteve ()        

If I remember rightly from the user manual for the new waves it did stress that it uses a completely different way of washing and that dosage needed to be but by 1/3 if following the instructions on the box of the detergent

Post# 260522 , Reply# 56   1/18/2008 at 08:40 (3,559 days old) by newwave1 (Lincoln, United Kingdom)        

newwave1's profile picture
Steve,
You are correct! i dont have a manual for mine unfortuately i had a manual for the newwave years ago and in bold print it stated that you did not need to use that much detergent, because of the ecoball, the minimal tub gap and spin wash, it wasn't necessary!

Darren


Post# 260683 , Reply# 57   1/19/2008 at 06:30 (3,559 days old) by superelectronic (London, UK)        
Dosing in the New Wave

I'll second/third that re: the dosages for the Hoover New Wave (and Classica/Soft Wave) models.

From memory:

Hard water/full load

Standard powder: 150g (normally 225g)
Concentrated powder: 100ml (normally 150ml)
Liquid: 120ml (normally 150ml)
Concentrated liquid: 80ml (normally 100ml)

The normal dosages were said to be for full loads in large machines (not that machines with capacities in excess of 5kg were really around in the mid 1990s) and could be significantly reduced for smaller machines and lesser loads.

Amazing the crap you can store away in the mind!

Interesting to note that almost no manufacturer I know of recommends anything other than following instructions on the packet now. When the environmentally friendly machines first came out they did cite detergent savings were possible but this practice has disappeared. So the question is: have detergent manufacturers sorted out their dosing tables or is detergent not as strong as it used to be? Or does detergent rinse out more easily or is it formulated so that residue is less of a problem? I wonder...

Of course, consistently recommending/using small dosages can lead to a mucky machine (scale and/or slime) so perhaps that's why the idea was dropped.

Al





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