Thread Number: 15523
Top Loaders
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Post# 261082   1/22/2008 at 11:57 (5,910 days old) by tuthill ()        

Why did early manufacturers of washing machines (ie 50s and 60s) design the top loading machine?? The front loader machine is so much more effecient and simpler and has numerous other advantages.




Post# 261085 , Reply# 1   1/22/2008 at 12:12 (5,910 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut)        
In my opinion,

bajaespuma's profile picture
The Automatic Top Loader was an easy transition to make for both the consumer and the manufacturer from the popular and familiar Wringer machines that the American public had been using for generations. Europeans didn't have the money, basement space or utilities for the large, heavy and water guzzling wringer machines.

Post# 261087 , Reply# 2   1/22/2008 at 12:55 (5,910 days old) by laundramatt (Youngstown, Ohio)        

I personally would never use a front loader- coming from the wringer age, they are no fun to me. Guess I'm old fashioned.

Post# 261094 , Reply# 3   1/22/2008 at 14:02 (5,910 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

rp2813's profile picture
I wonder if this also may be a marketing or design decision based on what people were used to. Before the wringers it was just a tub and a washboard. But the tub was never on its side so top loaders continued with the same design that people had been using for many decades
When my mom used to put up dill pickles, she would get them by the lugfull and dump them into the top loader and fill it with water, then proceed to scrub each one with a brush. That's not something you could use a front loader for
I've always liked front load machines and felt that an old Westinghouse Laundromat's design was a simple one that was likely much less prone to mechanical failure than a top loader that was wrenching itself back & forth and seemed to have to work much harder to move the clothes around than the more simple tumbling action of the front loader.
That no longer applies today, where it seems modern front loaders are much more complicated and repair prone than their earlier predecessors and their top loading contemporaries.


Post# 261099 , Reply# 4   1/22/2008 at 14:28 (5,910 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
The first front loaders by Bendix required bolting down to floors, which not everyone could, nor wished to do, and only tumbled in one direction. This often lead to laundry coming out in one long rope, indeed early Westinghouse drum washing machines were nicknamed "rope-makers"
Because Bendix held the patents to many of the parts on early front loading washing machines, was difficult to impossible for other appliance makers to either produce their own version of the machine or make an improved design
Top loading washing machines were a natural move from the tub of water in which laundry was either swished around with a dolly stick, and or boiled/scrubbed with a wash board. Also loading washing machines did not require bolting down
Top loading washing machines, aside from their various methods of agitation are simpler to design, and produce than front loaders, hence the ROI is greater. Top loading washing machines offered Mrs. American Housewife a faster way to get through large amounts of laundry and get on with her day. Unlike European homes of the time, Americans were building homes in the suburbs with "laundry rooms", and or other areas designed for laundry use, thus the need to "hide" or put washing machines under a counter wasn't really thought of
Finally consider the vast resources in most of the United States, especially fresh water and cheap utilities. Amercians simply weren't concerned about how much water a washing machine used, for the most part.
L.


Post# 261102 , Reply# 5   1/22/2008 at 14:37 (5,910 days old) by mielabor ()        

In the USA wringer washers were followed by automatic agitator type top loaders. In Europe, at least in the Netherlands, wringer washers were followed by automatic front loaders. The American automatic washer type is almost unknown here. I have seen them only once in a laundromat in the 1960's and I do not know of anyone who had such a machine at home. Now why was that? One of my ideas is that there are economical factors involved. People in Europe could not afford automatic washers until the 1960's and by that time soap was replaced by detergents that were better suited for horizontal axis machines. Another reason could be that horizontal axis machines, being of simpler construction, were cheaper to produce than automatic top loaders.

Post# 261103 , Reply# 6   1/22/2008 at 14:40 (5,910 days old) by lederstiefel1 ()        
bajaespuma

Sorry, but have to correct you
I do not know how it was in other countries in Europe (except in Britain, as I have books from there - Laundry Bygones for example) but in GERMANY we all had laundry-rooms, called Waschküche (= washkitchen) in the basements or in a seperate wash-house next to the house or in the yard.
There was always a big copper to boil the laundry installed in it, a single or twin sink made from concrete to rinse the washing, some zink-tubs to soak the laundry and if people were not too poor a family and had only a washboard and puncher, they had one of the following machines: woodden tub washer with manual handle-drive, hydraulic water-motor or electric motor. Also these machines had a manual or motor-wringer or were used with a manual or hydraulic-press if not a spinner was used.
More wealthy families had enamelled wringer-washers or pulsator-washing machines or other, mostly not so popular machines, such as jet-pump machines, pendula-basket washers, fountain-washers, wash-board washers or puncher-washers like the Easy in America.
Also there were machines on the market with globes and drums which were actually front-loaders in todays sence but were not suitable for an appartment as they often had a furnace (gas or coal)
The wash-day as it was common for more than 600 years here in Germany stopped within five years, as I can remember very well, during the middle 1960s/early 1970s when FULLY-AUTOMATIC front-loaders became affordable for almost everybody during the Wirtschaftswunder time and when engineers had found solutions for the problems with the reverse tumbling and the spin-vibrations so that these machines became "appartement-suitable"
Ralf


Post# 261163 , Reply# 7   1/22/2008 at 20:33 (5,909 days old) by cadman (Cedar Falls, IA)        

cadman's profile picture
Convenience was also on the housemaker's mind. There's no stooping or bending required to fish out that last sock like there is in a front loader. With a larger opening more laundry could be added/removed in less time, too. Plus you can throw in a little more detergent or a garment or two mid-cycle without a mess on the floor.
From an engineering point of view, you don't have the problem of trying to keep water in a bucket on its side. A door seal on a suspensionless Bendix is one thing, desiging a boot that must flex with an overloaded front-loader load, after load, after load is something else.


Post# 261179 , Reply# 8   1/22/2008 at 21:30 (5,909 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
Having both vintage top loaders and front loaders in my basement (and using them all the time) here is my opinion on this. I really believe what the problem was with front loaders was the simple fact that the early models did not clean as well as top loaders. This had nothing to do with reverse-tumbling, bolting down or tangling. Bendix had non bolt-down Front Loaders by 1948 and Westinghouse had non-bolt down FLs the market as early as 1941. Bendix front loaders did not reverse-tumble and I have never in my 9 years of using these machines had a load tangle. The Westinghouse slant-front models did tangle clothes because of their slanted tub design, even if you put a reverse tumble in that machine I still think it would tangle. The Launderall (top loading horizontal axis) did have reverse tumbling and it reversed four times a minute, but it got terrible ratings in cleaning ability.
Here is what the Consumer Research Bulletin said in June of 1948: "The difference in washing effectiveness between the three revolving drum type machines Bendix, Launderall and Westinghouse were actually small, whereas the washing effectiveness of each was considerably less than that of washers using an oscillating or plunger type agitator (typified by Kenmore, Blackstone, General Electric and Frigidaire)."I believe the real problem with the cleaning ability of the early front loaders was not so much the machines themselves, but the lack of good low-sudsing detergents back then. All and Dash were introduced in the 50's and that helped the situation but those detergents were not really perfected until about 1960. Another issue with front loaders is that because they use so much less water per fill, the temperature of the hot water cools rapidly and you end up washing in warm water. Later front loading machines like the Bendix Duomatic and the Whirlpool Combo were much better at cleaning because they both had 220 volt water heaters to keep the wash water hot and they each had a much larger diameter wash drum so the clothes had a longer way to fall when they were being tumbled.
As for efficiency they really weren't all that efficient back then, check out the water usage of late 1940s/early 1950s model washers as well as the 1954 Bendix Duomatic Front Loader Combo
Brand/ Hot Water Usage/ Total Water Usag
ABC-O-Matic /17 /2
AMC /17 /4
Apex /17 /2
Bendix /13 /2
Bendix Duomatic (1954 model)/17 /2
General Electric /22 /3
Frigidaire /17 /2
Hotpoint /11 /3
Kenmore /25 /3
Launderall /16 /3
Maytag /18 /2
Norge (bolt-down FL) /20 /3
Westinghouse /15 /2
Whirlpool /25 /3


Post# 261182 , Reply# 9   1/22/2008 at 21:35 (5,909 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Front Loading Washing Machines

launderess's profile picture
Are popular in Europe both then and now because it is possible to add source for heating water, be it from a steam boiler (as did early commercial laundries), or self contained heating (coal, wood, electric, etc). Europeans in general tend to favour higher washing temperatures with perborate (later percarbonate)bleaches, over using eau de Javel (chlorine bleach), which is seen as more aggressive to textiles
Have several books on vintage linens and laundering methods favoured in Europe, and one of the frist washing machines sold for home use in France, was a contraption that rather looked like a huge garbage can, lid an all
There is no getting around the fact that using a top loading machine requires lots of hot water (of one is washing in that temperature), and most European homes simply did not have the huge boilers or hot water heaters Americans had for heating water. Try as some may, it is only recently that the average washing temperature for European wash loads went down from "boil wash" range to mildy hot or even warm, or even cold water.


Post# 261193 , Reply# 10   1/22/2008 at 22:15 (5,909 days old) by rapunzel (Sydney)        

"Why did early manufacturers of washing machines (ie 50s and 60s) design the top loading machine?? The front loader machine is so much more effecient and simpler and has numerous other advantages."

Until a couple of decades ago, European front loaders weren't very efficient at all. Their capacity was comparatively small (4.5 to 5 kilos), they used between 150 to 180 liters of water and their cycles took ages (still do). They suffered from loading and balancing issues with bulky items or partial loads, i.e. limited load flexibility. They cleaned best when filled to capacity. At that time their design was completely unsuitable for the American market. Though, in my opinion, their wash and rinse performance was far superior to the water efficient FL's of today.

European consumer demographics of the 1940's, 50's and 60's were very different to the US's. European manufacturers appropriately responded to their consumers' circumstances. They largely opted away from the development of sophisticated top loading washers, instead concentrating on the (more compact) horizontal axis design, which fitted the average European household and laundry culture much better.

As has been suggested by others, the automatic top loader was the natural progression from the wringer machines. By the late 1940's, American manufacturers did offer a number of horizontal axis machines to consumers, including a top loader. Though, their design obviously didn't appeal to most consumers for a variety of reasons. In them days efficiency wasn't a big consideration. People were more interested in performance, durability, features and looks.


Post# 261205 , Reply# 11   1/22/2008 at 22:53 (5,909 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
Yes, one has to consider, that until rather recently, the largest front loaders held about 5kg to 6kg. Only with the advent of front loading washers being pushed onto Amercian consumers, have such units grown to handle what most Amercian housewives call an "average" wash load.

By and large American housewives have treated laundry the way their mothers, grandmothers and such did; a time consuming chore, done once a week (if then) and best gotten over with quickly. If you had told Mrs.Average Amercian housewive back in say the 1050's or 1960's she had to make due with a small capacity front loader, that took ages to complete cycles, you'd have women up in arms from coast to coast. With a husband, several children, plus herself making up laundry for wash day, that simply is too much washing for one day.

Consider also that all the above washing back in those days for the most part had to be ironed. So doing laundry every day, as many European housewives did, would also mean ironing several times a week, something many women didn't enjoy once a week.

Even when one allows for various configurations of agitators and "features" which for the most part pretty much did nothing, but distinguish one brand of washing machine from another, top loading washers are easier to produce and have less problems than front loaders. Top loaders do not require door seals/boots, nor do they require complex suspension systems. What you've go is not far from the first top loaders by Maytag and such, a tub that holds water, with a center post mounted agitator. Once electrical motors came along powerful enough for spin cycles, which made wringers obsolete, there was no looking back.

L.


Post# 261215 , Reply# 12   1/23/2008 at 01:06 (5,909 days old) by washerlover (The Big Island, Hawai’i)        

washerlover's profile picture
Of course top loaders are more fun to watch, and the various manufacturer's agitators and lint filters add to the fun and gave their respective marketing departments something to advertise. Also, I believe American housewives of the day didn't want to stoop over to load/unload laundry, at least until the automatic dryer was invented!

Post# 261223 , Reply# 13   1/23/2008 at 02:27 (5,909 days old) by twinniefan (Sydney Australia)        
Twin tubs

twinniefan's profile picture
Do not forget also folks, that I think in between the wringer and the fully automatic washer was the twin tub most notable the Hoovermatic which were enormously popular here in Australia and the U.K. although I do not really know about the rest of Europe.
Laundress, do you think a huge twin tub would have made an impact in the U.S.at that time or not?.
Cheers.
Steve.


Post# 261226 , Reply# 14   1/23/2008 at 05:08 (5,909 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Twin Tubs

launderess's profile picture
Were nothing more than semi-automatic washing machines with spin baskets instead of wringers. For safety and comfort, many women were very happy to have totally automatic washing machines. Also, as one saw with advertisments for automatic washing machines, they allowed the housewife to get on with her day doing other things, rather have to stand over the washing machine and or be really involved with the process. Milady could put a load into an automatic washing machine,then go off and do something else, or nothing at all, anything but stand over a hot wash tub and mess about with wet laundry.

Consider also automatic washing machines, both top and front loading often made a huge deal in that fresh water was used for all cycles, a certain dig at wringer washing machines. It was seen as more hygienic to use clean water for each load/cycle.

Twin tubs served a particular niche mainly for those who either had to be frugal with water use, and or didn't have the space for a full sized automatic washing machine. Once smaller automatic washing machines became more common, and more generations were removed from the memory/use of wringer washing machines,the novelty of using a twinne wore off. I love my Hoover TT, but cannot imagine doing laundry for a household of several persons weekly using the thing.

L.


Post# 261252 , Reply# 15   1/23/2008 at 07:53 (5,909 days old) by hilovane (Columbus OH)        
twin-tub/semi automatics

What about the Easy "Spindrier" (twin-tub) and the Thor "Automagic?" The Spindrier was introduced in the mid 1920's, and as I understand it, Maytag and Speed Queen were among the only "modern era" makes that didn't offer one, as opposed to GE & Blackstone, who did. (For context's sake, I don't consider any make that went out of business before or by the end of WWII a "modern era" make.)
The "Automagic" washed, rinsed in spun/damp-dried clothes in the same tub, but its control setting was manually operated. In the '50s, Bendix and Norge offerd bottom-of-the-line machines that had to be manually set/reset for each cycle, as well as turning the unit on and off.


Post# 261309 , Reply# 16   1/23/2008 at 12:24 (5,909 days old) by mielabor ()        
Twin-tubs in the Netherlands

For a while, twin-tubs were very popular in the Netherlands, but these were of the horizontal axis top-loading type. Their advantages were the high spin speed of the dryer and their durability. They went out of fashion with the advent of fast spinning front loaders and also another problem became apparent: they used a lot of water for the rinsing (no intermediate spins during rinsing so the rinse results could only be acceptable through the use of large volumes of water). At that time many people with a front loader had also a separate spinner but that combination required more space and was more labour intensive than a twin-tub.

Post# 261340 , Reply# 17   1/23/2008 at 16:29 (5,908 days old) by tuthill ()        
hmmm interesting

thx for the responses guys!

Post# 261343 , Reply# 18   1/23/2008 at 16:49 (5,908 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        
A few side notes

foraloysius's profile picture
In the sixties there were quite a few frontloaders that were wider than the 60cm of the standard European kitchen appliances. The standard width for appliances wasn't very common yet. My mother had a Bosch frontloader that was 67cm wide IIRC. Several other brands also had machines that were about that size. For instance Constructas were 66cm. The capacity of my mother's Bosch was 5.5kg, but the drum was 62 liters. Older American toploaders didn't have the Super+ Capacity of today. I believe the earlier GM Frigidaires held 11lbs (5kg) So the size and the capacity of European and American machines were not that differrent I think.

Cycle times were also shorter than those of the frontloaders of today. Ofcourse the cycles of the American toploaders were shorter but part of that difference is ofcourse caused by the time needed for heating the water.

I remember neighbours that had an American style toploader in our neighbourhood. I don't know how they got it and I don't know what brand it was. I think it could have been an older GE toploader from the fifties. It was not uncommon to import washing machines from the USA, but ofcourse only some people could afford those machines. The first automatic washer that was installed in the Netherlands was a bolt down Bendix frontloader and that happened in 1948 in Rotterdam. I recently talked to a man who grew up in Rotterdam after WWII and he remembered they had a GE toploader and later that washer got company from a GE dryer.

Although Constructa claims that they introduced the first automatic frontloader in 1954 it was actually V-Zug that introduced the first automatic washing machine in Europe (so they claim) just before that. It was an H-axis toploader. Still today the H-axis toploader is the most popular washing machine in France.


Post# 261377 , Reply# 19   1/23/2008 at 21:16 (5,908 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
Well the washing action of most American top loaders is much harsher than traditional front loaders, so one really doesn't need longer cycle times.

Twin tubs on both sides of the pond were a logcial progession for women used to using wringer washing machines or hand washing in tubs. Twin tubs, like wringer washing machines in the United States, stayed in production until about the 1980's because there was a market for the machines. Some people simply either didn't wish to use automatic washing machines, or circumstances dictated (such as shortages of fresh water), laundering by the old wringer method. Twin tubs are very water hungry, if one does not reuse the wash water and or does deep rinses in the tub.

Remember also that starting in the 1970's women began to leave the home and go to work, either out of economic necessity or personal desire. With even housewives working full time jobs, this meant laundry had to fit into her new schedule. Doing the wash for a five or six person family with those puny front loaders of the day, simply wasn't on.



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