Thread Number: 15538
Todays Dishwashers
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Post# 261254   1/23/2008 at 08:06 (3,558 days old) by cleanteamofny ((Monroe, New York)        

cleanteamofny's profile picture
If you had $900.00 to buy one today, which one would you buy and why?




Post# 261267 , Reply# 1   1/23/2008 at 09:06 (3,558 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

gansky1's profile picture
Asko or Miele.

I had an Asko 1585 and it was a good performer - stellar, actually and it's still in use at my parent's after 8 years.

I'm getting ready to buy a new dishwasher for the kitchen and it's down to the these two machines. I don't see the Miele prices being worth the fuss - $2000+ for the TOL model is just a little out of reach for rational people on a budget ;-)


Post# 261298 , Reply# 2   1/23/2008 at 11:25 (3,558 days old) by maytagbear (N.E. Ohio)        
I'd go with

a machine from a brand I know to be reliable, like GE. I have had my Nautilus since 2005, and love it even more now. I also would think twice about spending much more than 650.00.


I like the Asko, but it does have a fairly dismal repair record according to CR's reader survey. Miele? They are lovely, but, I would be nervous.



Just my .02



Lawrence/Maytagbear


Post# 261313 , Reply# 3   1/23/2008 at 13:11 (3,558 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
A thought:

panthera's profile picture
Miele has replacement parts going back to the 1950's. B/S/H will help if they can, but only carry parts for eight years.
American firms, as we have so often read here, could not care less if they tried - you bought it, it is your lemon if it breaks one day out of warranty.
I would suggest a vintage KitchenAide or used Miele. There are so many 'new rich' out there who replace their whole kitchen every year or so, with a bit of looking you are bound to find a Miele for relatively nothing.
There are no bad Mieles, tho' the newest US models are somewhat
dumbed down.


Post# 261318 , Reply# 4   1/23/2008 at 13:39 (3,558 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        

Any of the MOL or TOL GE Tall Tubs. You won't be disappointed. You don't even have to spend $900 if you don't really want to.

Post# 261329 , Reply# 5   1/23/2008 at 15:03 (3,558 days old) by petek (Ontari ari ari O )        

petek's profile picture
I loved my Miele in our last house. Stoopid stoopid me should have removed it and put in a junker when we put the house up for sale but that's water under the bridge now. Anyways $900 won't buy a Miele around here they're always over a grand on up to 2 grand. Mine was a "show special", a bunch of machines brought in to co-incide with the annual "Home & Garden" show at the exhibition grounds though I bought it at the dealer after the show. It seems a lot for a dishwasher, heck it is alot of money for a dishwasher BUT it was worth it I think just for the silence and great cleaning. Besides it's one of those "out there" things that are nice to have.. sort of like getting a real Harley instead of a Goldwing LOL Me has the Goldwing but wouldn't mind the Harley LOL

Post# 261336 , Reply# 6   1/23/2008 at 15:59 (3,558 days old) by funguy10 ()        

A Fisher & Paykel DishDrawer.

Post# 261341 , Reply# 7   1/23/2008 at 16:35 (3,558 days old) by hypnotoad ()        
Think hard about the Goldwing-Harley comparison...

There is a reason some bike mechanics call them Hardly Ablesons. I mean, if Harley made an airplane would you fly in it? I would take a Goldwing over any Harley any day of the week.

Sorry for the threadjack, but I think the priciple is sound: buy the engineering, not the marketing.


Post# 261342 , Reply# 8   1/23/2008 at 16:41 (3,558 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        
For $900AUD

An entry level Miele over anything else.

Otherwise I'd spend less and buy a basic Simpson, or a mid range Electrolux.


Post# 261351 , Reply# 9   1/23/2008 at 17:50 (3,557 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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I'd buy my TOL tall-tub Maytag with stainless steel interior again in a heartbeat! Fantastic cleaning, even with pots/pans; the most versatile loading I've ever encountered (this is an especially important feature for me, as I wash a lot of very large, odd-sized pots/pans/cookware. Not as quiet as a Bosch, Asko or Miele, but certainly not noisy, either.

Post# 261355 , Reply# 10   1/23/2008 at 18:11 (3,557 days old) by laundromat (Hilo, Hawaii)        

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GE Triton,excelent dishwasher

Post# 261356 , Reply# 11   1/23/2008 at 18:13 (3,557 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        
I don't know

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You're all going to think that I am crazy, but I like High water usage machines. I have had no trouble with my kenmore(akaKenwhirl) My landlord has a Milele turbo deluxe, and it runs for 2 hours. My Kenwhirl runs for 45- 60 minutes,and maybe uses 1.5-2.5 more gallons of water than the Miele. I have checked out Whirlpool and Kenmore and I really like those machines. I just can't justify spending $1200+ dollars for a machine that will not only become obslete in a few years, but c'mon we're washing dishes here. I think the dish drawer is a joke,it's just some vogue thing to have in your kitchen. The ones I have looked at could not a Stock Pot in them.I know a man that installed the Fisher Paykel Drawers in his house and they are always in need of repair and He finds them useless. I would look at a tall tub,3 spray arms, and larger ports in the spray arms. You won't have to have the fear of clogging, and you know there will be some washing action going on in the chamber. I know the high end machines clean well, but I could think of alot of other things to do with $1200+ dollars then say I have a top of the line machine.
I love the sound of all my machines grinding away and splashing water to a good rhythem. I'm old fashion and I just love that.If you spend $600.00 +... and find a machine you like, that way when 6-7 years down the road there will be something better you could upgrade to. All I need is 2-3 more Vintage machines and I'll be set for the next 30 years and I'll be dead listening to the sound of a vintage KD2-P washing my last load !!!! Wow what a eulogy
I think it's all in the racking. If you look at the washarms and spin them notice the jet pattern on both of the racks. As long as the spray gets to a dish or what ever, it's probably going to hit that item 4-5 hundred times in a cycle. the more water the better in my book. As you're rotating the arms concentrate on the left side of the rack. If the spray doesn't hit a particular item on 1/2 a stroke, notice if it hits that spot when the other side of the washarm passes. It should. If not, it's a lousy spray design.


Post# 261357 , Reply# 12   1/23/2008 at 18:16 (3,557 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        
By the way,,,,,,

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I had a horrible expierience with a Maytag 4 years ago. 6 repairs in 4 months. And the machine still was horrible.

Post# 261363 , Reply# 13   1/23/2008 at 19:33 (3,557 days old) by nmaineman36 ()        

We had the Fisher and Paykel dishdrawers and from experience with what we had...after 3 years it decided to give us problems. I kinda liked it but in practicality they are not for people that cook alot like I do and to get good cleaning I would always use the Heavy cycle. I had expected the Drawers at least to last more than 3 years for the price we paid for it...$1300. They sure are nice to look at though...but thats about it.
I have to agree with Greg that $2000 is a bit much for a dishwasher and we choked when we heard the price of my Miele LaPerla. But in all honestly it was worth it. I find myself using most of the features that it has to offer. I use the Normal cycle and the Heavy or Intensive cycle with an the optional Soak. Never would have thought that having a soak cycle option would do such a great job on the grungiest pots and pans and dishes. I use the Miele dishwasher tabs and when i put one in the dispenser close the lid and start the machine I know that when I come back to the dishwasher.. its nothing but shine...spotless glasses and dishes so clean that it rivals anything I have ever used.


Post# 261374 , Reply# 14   1/23/2008 at 21:06 (3,557 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
We Have A Humble

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Kenmore (made by Frigidaire) 18" job, that is about 7 years old. Nothing fancy but gets the job done. Really also cannot see the virtue of spending 2K or so on a dishwasher, when many lower priced models will do the job just as well.

Dishwasher noise is not a huge issue for moi, as the unit is normally run when the household retires for the night. Yes, am sure it is quite nice to have a dw that speaks several languages, and or has more cycles than Carter's has liver pills, but in the end I'd rather have a simple older dw that gets the job done in about 45 minutes to an hour, than a fancy schmancy unit loaded down with every doodad thinkable, yet takes 2-3 hours to finish.

L.


Post# 261384 , Reply# 15   1/23/2008 at 21:45 (3,557 days old) by cleanteamofny ((Monroe, New York)        
The reason why I ask

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I have my mother's Kenmore dishwasher in the basement all cleaned up which the door is white with black panel.
It's a little yellow on the plastic but that comes with age....Model #665.15821690.
Overall the cleaning performance is excellent and a water hog when I used it years ago and it was two or three doors down from TOL.
Right now it needs the bottom panel to be replaced and a new drain hose. so this is where I stand.

Do I want a quiet machine that make you think that things are getting clean when it not? A La POS Frigidaire?
Or that throaty Whoosh of this Kenmore?




Below was my fathers Frigidaire that could not wash Spinach, Oatmeal or Cream of Wheat from a pot on the top rack....


Post# 261385 , Reply# 16   1/23/2008 at 21:48 (3,557 days old) by cleanteamofny ((Monroe, New York)        

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What is that on the floor?
Water during the wash cycle?

Frigidaire will never get another dollar from me or my family because of this.....


Post# 261389 , Reply# 17   1/23/2008 at 21:51 (3,557 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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My Kenmore Elite tall-tub washes cereal bowls which have been used to cook 3-minute oatmeal in the nuker and also used to eat said meal from. The bowls may sit for 4-7 days. Cascade Complete and Smart Wash gets the job done.

Post# 261398 , Reply# 18   1/23/2008 at 22:34 (3,557 days old) by cleanteamofny ((Monroe, New York)        

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My eyes are set on two Kenmore's.
One is a tall tub and the other is a Giant tub, the both are on sale before the 25th and need to make up my mind very, very soon.

I'm really leaning towards the giant tub design because it's a little more fully featured!

If not able to view, here's the model numbers:
Brand Kenmore Elite Kenmore Elite
--------------- Item # 02216309000-----------------02213439000
Mfr. Model ----------------- #1630 --------------------- #1343




CLICK HERE TO GO TO cleanteamofny's LINK


Post# 261399 , Reply# 19   1/23/2008 at 22:58 (3,557 days old) by phillygrl ()        
Bosch

I would buy a Bosch again. I've been using one for five years, bought new when we moved, and have had no problems. Gets everything sparkly clean, and is very quiet. A big plus for me is the water heater under the tub. With no element inside the tub you can put plastics on the bottom rack. You can get the simpler models without all of the bells and whistles (which is what I have) for around $600.

Post# 261400 , Reply# 20   1/23/2008 at 22:59 (3,557 days old) by pturo ()        

I have to say a tall tub Maytag is really a good buy. It's loading capacity/flexibility is outstanding and that makes is really efficent since it washes more dishes and larger pot's and pans that would have to be done by hand, wasting hot water at the sink. A total stainless inside and outside Kitchen Aide is the tall tub TOL.

Post# 261402 , Reply# 21   1/23/2008 at 23:19 (3,557 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Larry, I have the 2213789000. The 2216309 above is the Bosch made Kenmore Elite. It's on close-out because Sears will no longer source this model for themselves now that they have the UltraWash HE filtration system (with the filter like the Bosch) instead of the soft food (in my case it gobbles up lots more than crumbs) disposer. I love mine and have been extremely pleased with it.

Post# 261403 , Reply# 22   1/23/2008 at 23:23 (3,557 days old) by cleanteamofny ((Monroe, New York)        

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I have looked at the Bosch and the Kenmore and the both looked the same.
I may be wrong but the both have the same foot pattern.
KitchenAid looks like a plain Jane too me and I've seen the GE Profile with the SS tub with the one month dispenser which is very impressive.
Maytag is a big no because of Whirlpool teething pain dealing with so many suppliers.


Post# 261404 , Reply# 23   1/23/2008 at 23:31 (3,557 days old) by cleanteamofny ((Monroe, New York)        

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Bob,

the Kenmore HE uses no more than 5 cups of water in one of their dishwasher on display that it was too quiet for my likings.
Will it clean? I just don't know!?!

I will go back Sears and check it out again.....


Post# 261408 , Reply# 24   1/24/2008 at 00:18 (3,557 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Larry, I wasn't really recommending the Kenmore HE, just haven't seen enough reviews and comments on them yet to begin to get an opinion. Of the 3 Whirlpool cousins (Kenmore, KA, and WP), I will say Kenmore even surpassed my expectations for a TT machine. I'd chose it over it's KA cousin and also the WP. I don't like the utensil basket in the door. The Bosch-made Kenmore and the Bosch are the same foot print. Take some dishes along to see how they fit if ya can. My new Elite's racks keep things more stable in the racks .than my PotScrubber ever did

Post# 261411 , Reply# 25   1/24/2008 at 01:56 (3,557 days old) by mattl (Flushing, MI)        
Love my GE

I love my MOL GE Tall Tub. Bottom rack can be completely flat and top rack can be close to flat too, a big plus for me. The average cycle is about 60 minutes with options for a speed cycle 38 minutes! Great for average dirty dishes. Cleans great, very rare to take something out that isn't perfectly clean. I HATE Stainless interiors and the model I got came either way, I saved $150 and got the white tub.

I'm curious why so many here love stainless. To me it's like putting dishes in a dark pit, it doesn't improve washing action, does not retain heat as well and can be noisier. Don't see any positives in that list.


Post# 261413 , Reply# 26   1/24/2008 at 03:13 (3,557 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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With the cost and environmental concerns, SS has replaced enameled porcelain over metal in most dishwashers. One still finds lower end units with plastic tubs, but increasingly MOL and even BOL dishwasher tubs are becoming stainless steel. It looks more upmarket and allows a higher price, well in theory at least.

SS also does not discolour the way plastic and some porcelain coated tubs can, and is impervious to rust and damage from strong caustic chemicals. Mind you porcelain tubs from some top dishwasher brand names like KA and such back in the day often lasted 15 years or more.

Even top loading washing machines have moved to either plastic tubs on BOL and MOL units, and SS for high end units for the most part. Again porcelian coating is expensive to do well, and when it is not done well one chip starts a rusting process that will just grow over time.



Post# 261420 , Reply# 27   1/24/2008 at 06:29 (3,557 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        
I wonder where the yellow went?

toggleswitch's profile picture
...and moving away from plastique and porcelain means one can dump vinegar, lemon, (& salad dressings with same) tomato sauce etc right in without fear of damage to the finsih or the color of the wash-tank.


BTW a cool dry in platique models forestalls the yellowing. An occasional bout with bleach OR a plastics whitener/brightenr helps too.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO toggleswitch's LINK


Post# 261423 , Reply# 28   1/24/2008 at 07:35 (3,557 days old) by estesguy (kansas)        
Plastic tubs are fine,,,,

I've had a tall tub GE PDW model with a plastic tub for 7 years now, with no stain or yellowing problems whatsoever. Its a decent priced machine and more than quiet enough for most peoples likings. Stainless steel dishwasher tubs give more of a commercial appearance, but I feel they aren't necessary.

Post# 261465 , Reply# 29   1/24/2008 at 12:07 (3,557 days old) by rapunzel (Sydney)        
A Fisher & Paykel DishDrawer.

I second that. Have had mine for nearly two years now and absolutely love it.

Post# 261466 , Reply# 30   1/24/2008 at 12:14 (3,557 days old) by rapunzel (Sydney)        
SS also does not discolour the way plastic and some porcelai

SS does spot, scratch and start to look grubby over time. Polypropylene is a plastic that has many industrial and product applications and it is virtually as impervious and durable as stainless steel. I've never had any issues with discoloration, smells or other problems. I would think that the production and disposal of SS tubs is less environementally friendly than plastic and it makes no difference to a dishwasher's overall performance.

Post# 261518 , Reply# 31   1/24/2008 at 18:14 (3,556 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Larry, I just thought of something. The new Kenmore UltraWash HE now uses the alternating spray levels like your old Frigidaire PrecisionWash did.

Post# 261520 , Reply# 32   1/24/2008 at 18:20 (3,556 days old) by cleanteamofny ((Monroe, New York)        

cleanteamofny's profile picture
Bob,

I'm starting to cringe!


Post# 261521 , Reply# 33   1/24/2008 at 18:22 (3,556 days old) by cleanteamofny ((Monroe, New York)        

cleanteamofny's profile picture
My head is spinning from doing all this research, and I'm not getting any closer to make my choice.....

Post# 261524 , Reply# 34   1/24/2008 at 18:28 (3,556 days old) by nmaineman36 ()        

Stainless steel can and is indeed recycled. From my experience working in the Plastics industry...Polypropylene is a fantastic material as long as its all virgin and no regrind gets mixed into it. To cut costs many manufacturers will pulverize defective components and remold them again. This can lead to lamination where the tubs can literally be "peeled" apart layer after layer. I cook alot of red sauces for pasta have experienced discoloration with a plastic tub. Before Cascade came out with the red be gone tube...which I cant find anymore...I just lived with a reddish orange tub.
Stainless on the other hand is quite durable and so far have not seen any scratches on either Miele dishwashers that I have. I am sure that in time they may happen.


Post# 261533 , Reply# 35   1/24/2008 at 19:30 (3,556 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

Most of what I've seen with Stainless tubs is usually limescale or else a yellowy blue mark that looks like when you've overheated a saucepan. I've only seen the yellowy blue mark at around the 15-20 year old mark. Otherwise the 10 or so Dishwashers that I've had at various stages of my life have always had SS tubs in near perfect condition apart from the occaisional light scratches.

It obviously depends on the quality of the Stainless Steel. The grade that dishwashers were made out of used to be impervious for the life of the machine. The stainless steel that's coming out of China and Korea is highly unlikely to have the same lifespan as the Australian or European made stuff.

Mum still has her almost 30yo Dishlex, with the original Lifetime Guarentee on the Stainless Steel tub. The tub is perfect in all aspects so it should be good for another 20 years.


Post# 261536 , Reply# 36   1/24/2008 at 19:34 (3,556 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        
The Plastic in the Dishdrawers seems to be different

To the plastic in earlier Plastic Tub dishwashers.

We still have Michaels Mothers Simpson Dishwasher from 1976, which was a Plastic Tubbed Bosch made in West Germany. Its never been used, but the plastic seems to be a much softer more vulnerable type than what you find in a Dishdrawer?

Has Polypropylene been the plastic of choice in American dishwashers over the last 20-30 years, or was there an earlier plastic that was more prone to staining?



Post# 261557 , Reply# 37   1/24/2008 at 21:44 (3,556 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
In theory good stainless steel tubs on washing machines or dishwashers should outlast the lifespan of the unit, but much would depend upon the quality of the metal. Porcelian coated enamel on the otherhand if not done well would rust and break down often while the machine still otherwise had life left. Also dropping a heavy object such as a saucepan on a porcelain tub could cause a ding or chip. If the matter was not attended to, that chip would expose the metal underneath and start to rust. While there are various paints to "touch up" chipped porcelain, there is no way to re-enamel those tubs once they are installed. Suppose one could take the unit apart and send the tub out for such things, but that must cost dear.

IIRC Hoover touted Polypropylene tubs in it's plastic tubbed twin tub units. Words such as "sanitary" were used in adverts lauding the benefits of the material.

One good thing about polypropylene is it is not affected by caustic detergents and or chlorine bleach, both of where were/are heavily used in dishwasher and laundry detergents.


Post# 261590 , Reply# 38   1/25/2008 at 07:43 (3,556 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Years ago, like more than a decade, there was a threat from the guvament to ban chlorine bleach in dishwasher detergents. Without the bleach, white plastic tubs discolored badly. Maytag switched their higher end machines to stainless steel tubs, but even before the advent of the tall tubs, they switched back to plastic. Maybe that package of bleach for periodic whitening sold next to the rinse agents was enough of a solution for people using a detergent without bleach and there are still detergents with chlorine bleach to keep plastic tubs white.

Cleanteam: The Whirlpool acquisition of Maytag has had no effect on the Maytag dishwasher plant. The machines are Maytags. The major change was made to the standard tub Maytag. It was replaced by the WP standard tub machine so that it now has a full wash arm UNDER the top rack.


Post# 261591 , Reply# 39   1/25/2008 at 07:52 (3,556 days old) by cleanteamofny ((Monroe, New York)        
Since 2:02 A.M. mom pushed and brought me into this world...

cleanteamofny's profile picture
And I think being the ripe Ole age of 44, I should splurge on this unit(GE PDW8900NBB) and buy an over the range micro-convention by March 30, 2008 for a $100.00 Rebate.
what cha think?


CLICK HERE TO GO TO cleanteamofny's LINK


Post# 261600 , Reply# 40   1/25/2008 at 09:11 (3,556 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

gansky1's profile picture
I have several clients with these GE tall-tub dishwashers and all of them are not happy. Terry has one in his new house in Florida and also, not happy with it's performance. Having had little personal experience with them, I can't say for certain, but I'm staying away. The Smart Dispense system is a curious addition, but I question it's reliability or ability to shake the contents before dispensing - as is necessary with many of the liquid detergents that tend to separate in storage. ;-)

The European/Aus/NZ manufacturers have been making high efficiency machines for decades and seem to have it down pretty well. American manufacturers are still going through what seems to be a few birthing complications to get the designs working right although it seems they're pretty close. The removal of phosphates from dishwasher detergents in 2010 should throw a wrench into the works so it will be interesting to see what changes are yet to come.

Consumer Reports reliability data is as skewed as the rest of their "testing" data. Reader surveys can be interpreted in many ways - just like any political or soft-drink polling data. For example, a simple door-latch defect that requires a service call when a machine is new counts as much in the survey as any other repair - regardless of the cost or complexity of the problem. Their data also doesn't take in to account the "service calls" that are made to instruct the user how to operate the machine or administer a quick 'Hooked on Phonics' course on how to read the manual.


Post# 261602 , Reply# 41   1/25/2008 at 09:22 (3,556 days old) by cleanteamofny ((Monroe, New York)        

cleanteamofny's profile picture
Gansky1,

You are right about the detergent separation and to this day I still shake Soft Scrub before using.....
Oh well Back to the Kenmore with the Giant Tub Design.


Post# 261604 , Reply# 42   1/25/2008 at 09:26 (3,556 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

gansky1's profile picture
Have a HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!

Post# 261641 , Reply# 43   1/25/2008 at 12:26 (3,556 days old) by cleanteamofny ((Monroe, New York)        

cleanteamofny's profile picture
Thank you!

I didn't have cake yet because I was in the doctors office getting my moon pies injected..... plumping them up to feel better. :-))

No lie.


Post# 261654 , Reply# 44   1/25/2008 at 13:20 (3,556 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        
Believe me doc, that little thing? I wont even feel it.

toggleswitch's profile picture
You? Such a burly macho manly-man (NOTE: ZERO SARCASM HERE) taking a prickin' in the ..... OMG!


(Ducks and runs.....)


Post# 261689 , Reply# 45   1/25/2008 at 16:52 (3,556 days old) by cleanteamofny ((Monroe, New York)        

cleanteamofny's profile picture
Toggle's,

my dishwashing arm is trying to catch up to you ==========>

lol


Post# 261696 , Reply# 46   1/25/2008 at 17:28 (3,556 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        
dishwasher that i have today

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hello

this is the dishwasher tha i use today here is a picture


Post# 261726 , Reply# 47   1/25/2008 at 22:27 (3,555 days old) by spankomatic (Ukiah,CA)        

spankomatic's profile picture
Maytag = No,had too many repairs,did not load well,long cycles.
Bosch = No,does not load well,cycles are too long
Fischer Pakel = No, too many reports of repairs.
Miele = Not sure,never used one.
GE = No,if it has the pop up wash tower in the middle.
Kenmore = Yes,very happy with my last Kenmore Elite portable.
Easy loading,liked the silverware basket,shorter
wash cycles,cleaned well.
Kitchenaid = Yes,very happy with all of the Kitchenaids I have
ever used. Easy loading,shorter cycles,quiet.
It is rare that you hear bad stories about Kitchen
aids.
Things to consider:

Noise= Will it be near a tv? Do you run your dishwasher just
before you go to bed? Get the quiet pack insulaton if
noise is an issue.

Loading = Where are you going to put the long spatuala,the
large pot and the fragile wine glass. Adjustable
racks,utensil trays,wine glass holders can make
your dishwash much more user friendly. I have found
I like silverware baskets that are long and run along
the front of the lower rack the best. Then I can put
a big pot right in the middle of the lower rack.
Cycles = I like short cycles with sani wash feature. They are
faster and hot!

Stainless vs Plastic : Because I do not pre rinse anything. I
toss red sauce and all right in I prefer
Stainless. My GE platic tub was always
orange.

Filters = It makes a difference! Be sure to get one with good
filtration. Bottom of the line models you will have
chunks of food left on your dishes.

I use a lot of different dishwashers. I cook a lot at different peoples houses so I get exposed to some different brands. Hope the info is helpful.

Jim


Post# 261730 , Reply# 48   1/26/2008 at 00:26 (3,555 days old) by mattl (Flushing, MI)        
I have a GE very similar to the one you pictured

CleanteamofNY, I a the GE a model or two down from the one you pictured. I'm very fussy about my dishes and as I have previously posted it is extremely rare to have anything come out of this machine that is other than perfectly clean.

Personally I'd stay away from any machine with built in detergent dispensers. Seems to me a problem waiting to happen, plus I like to control how much detergent I use. Sometimes I cut back if the load is small or fairly clean, and double up in other situations. I guess we as a culture are getting too lazy to reach over and pick up a box and pour some detergent in a cup. Just a few decades ago 90% of the population stood there and hand washed the dishes.


Post# 261735 , Reply# 49   1/26/2008 at 03:16 (3,555 days old) by badata ()        
900 dollars

if i had 900 dollars to spend on a dishwasher............i would buy an OLDER kitchenaid off of ebay and pocket the rest!!!!!!!!!

Post# 261776 , Reply# 50   1/26/2008 at 13:16 (3,555 days old) by spankomatic (Ukiah,CA)        

spankomatic's profile picture
Badata, Got to agree with you. My all time favorite dishwasher was a 1978 Kitchenaid Superba. Not sure what model it was. A KD something... It was by far the easiest to load,cleaned extreamly well,never had to repair it.

Jim


Post# 261779 , Reply# 51   1/26/2008 at 13:49 (3,555 days old) by cleanteamofny ((Monroe, New York)        
It's done!

cleanteamofny's profile picture
I was torn between Bosch model# SHE55M06UC and the Kenmore model# 13789 and the Bosch nearly won me over
but the delivery would have been on the 5th of Feb., and that was out of the question!
So the Kenmore won all because delivery is tomorrow and the size of the tub is way bigger than the Bosch.



Post# 261783 , Reply# 52   1/26/2008 at 14:21 (3,555 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
A friend of mine has about a 3-year old GE Profile PDW7800 dishwasher. He's pretty disapppointed with the performance on really grungy grungy stuff. And this was with Pots & Pans and prewash cycle/option selected. Any ideas? Kinda goes against some GE TT experiences mentioned here. Andrew, thoughts???

Post# 261784 , Reply# 53   1/26/2008 at 14:21 (3,555 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
YAY Larry, ya got my model!!!

Post# 261791 , Reply# 54   1/26/2008 at 15:40 (3,555 days old) by cleanteamofny ((Monroe, New York)        
The electronic age

cleanteamofny's profile picture
Bob,

I was really rooting for the Bosch because of the door seems to have very sturdy feel to it.
To explain; the door on the Kenmore has a flexi feel while the Bosch is like one sheet of 1/4" steel plate, very stiff from corner to corner.
Not only that, the Bosch also has a cleaner look than the Kenmore with a countdown timer that I really wanted in a dishwasher.

Oh well, If Barbie don't like it, she'll send Ken to return it!

Since we have the same machine just wish me luck and trade with me a few tips for best performances.
Thanks.


Post# 261794 , Reply# 55   1/26/2008 at 15:47 (3,555 days old) by cleanteamofny ((Monroe, New York)        

cleanteamofny's profile picture
The unit:

Post# 261795 , Reply# 56   1/26/2008 at 15:51 (3,555 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
I kinda like it, it reminds me of an i-pod in a way.

Post# 261797 , Reply# 57   1/26/2008 at 16:01 (3,555 days old) by cleanteamofny ((Monroe, New York)        

cleanteamofny's profile picture
Yes it does, are the controls very sensitive Bob?
The few reviews states that.


Post# 261817 , Reply# 58   1/26/2008 at 19:45 (3,554 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
I've seen those comments about the sensitive controls. Umm, lower bellyis about the level of start. I've never had a problem brushing up against the machine and starting it like I've seen people comment. I actually like the panel. I turn off all the lights when I have all 4 options selected, cycle, and blue running lights lol. Kinda cool!!

Post# 262497 , Reply# 59   1/31/2008 at 12:05 (3,550 days old) by kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC)        

kenmoreguy64's profile picture
I saw a couple replies recommending GE dishwashers, and at one time I would have wanted only a GE. That is what I once thought. In a nutshell, I would stay AWAY from any GE dishwasher now, here's why I say that:

I own a 4 year old Profile tall-tub, near top of line. My mother has a 3 year old Triton XL, which is very similar to mine. Hers sees twice the use mine does. She bought the Triton as a repeat GE customer, since her 1986 Potscrubber 900 had lasted 19 years and only was replaced because a door spring broke and she was looking for an excuse to have a new one.

About 4 months ago her machine began making intermittent grinding/grumbling noises that would start and stop unexpectedly, but were brief. We all figured it was the internal food grinder. Since then, the noise has become louder and more frequent. There are loads now when it makes this noise nearly the entire load. Last week my mother called for service.

The GE factory repairman removed the toe panel, and test-ran the machine briefly then said "Well, that's another one!" As it turns out there seems to be a number of machines where bearings in the motors are prematurely wearing out. The repairman complained something about the bearings being encased in plastic (I was not there to ask for an explanation).

Her machine as I said is three years old. It gets run about every other day, or every three days - depends on how much she and my dad eat out for dinner. For a machine that is not run daily to have it's bearings wear out so fast is unacceptable, and apparently mom's is not the only one. I have heard the same noises coming from my machine, but since I use it less, it is developing more slowly.

The repairman suggested, unofficially, that the machine was not worth repairing, then did not charge her for the service call, saying that if GE called for a survey, to state that the call was refused at the door. He quoted $300 to repair it.

We went shopping for something new - the salespeople at two GE dealers in Charlotte said essentially the same thing "we like their cooking products but we do not actively sell their dishwashers and only will if a customer wants one. Their quality control has not been there like it once was".

I inquired with GE if they were having a problem with motor bearings, they said "no", of course. They will not back mom's machine with any support whatsoever, even after mom threatened to cancel her $2000 Profile in the wall double oven that was on order. Replacement motors have no changes in design or improved bearings. Since my machine is doing the same thing, we've decided to scrap them both, but not before I take a hatchet to them and post it on Youtube, lol.

I don't know for sure, but I think the standard tub GEs may be using a different motor, but I surely would NOT recommend the GE tall tub machines that we have, based on what has been said by the sales peopld and the GE repairman.


Post# 262500 , Reply# 60   1/31/2008 at 12:30 (3,550 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        
GE Tall Tub!

peteski50's profile picture
Hi Gorden,
I also have a tall profile that is 5 years old. I like the machine but I also noticed the past year or so at the beginning of the cycle I hear a grinding noise also. But it does usually disappear. I usually run it 1 to 3 times a week. I hope I'm not headed for a disaster. I don't see anything else worth buying. It does clean very well.
Peter


Post# 262522 , Reply# 61   1/31/2008 at 13:37 (3,550 days old) by brant_ix ()        
KitchenAid

KitchenAid is highly ranked via Customers on both Consumer Reports and at Sears
4.5 Stars on Consumer Reports
4.7 Stars on Sears

I have the top rated KitchenAid from a couple years back. I'm pretty pleased with too...

KitchenAid KUDS03CT[WH]


Post# 262524 , Reply# 62   1/31/2008 at 13:41 (3,550 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        
GE tall tubs grumbling

johnb300m's profile picture
Uh.....guys!
That grumbling noise you hear is NOT the motor.
That intermitant grumbling is the rattling of the middle spray arm conduit.
When the middle spray arm docks with the feed cone in the rear, there is a small O-ring on that cone, and it wears out, allowing the conduit to vibrate with the pressure.

You guys are throwing away dishwashers for no reason.
I tied down our Triton XL's mid spray tube with a zip tie, and that stopped the rumbling.

Your GE guy was yankin' your chain maybe.


Post# 262529 , Reply# 63   1/31/2008 at 14:09 (3,550 days old) by tlee618 ()        

Hey Gordon, that was very interesting. I am so glad to hear that I am not the only person out here that thinks GE dishwasher are a piece of you know what! I had the house built here and moved in 16 months ago. I have the tall tub GE profile one step down from the top. This was a BIG upgrade from what the builder was offering. It has to be the worst dishwasher I have every owned. Had GE service twice, nothing appeared to be wrong. The last service guy said, "this is just how they are, they don't use enough water to really get things clean"! Needless to say, I will never buy another GE dishwasher.

Post# 262549 , Reply# 64   1/31/2008 at 15:41 (3,550 days old) by kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC)        
More on the GE Tall tub mess

kenmoreguy64's profile picture
John,

Thanks for the note! I sure don't know what that says about GE factory service if the problem turns out to be so severely mis-diagnosed. My folks have not replaced the machine yet, in fact I talked them into cancelling the $800 KitchenAid they had ordered to give me time to investigate as the Triton was still running ok. I just called and Mom says it needs to be run tonight, so I'm going to go over there and try your idea. Nothing ventured nothing gained! I will reply tomorrow with the results.....do you have a suggestion or picture of where you think it is best to add the tie clip?


Post# 262565 , Reply# 65   1/31/2008 at 16:23 (3,550 days old) by kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC)        

kenmoreguy64's profile picture
Terry - I have a small tidbit of advice for you on your fancy Profile that I learned from mine (Ironically mine is also one step down from the top of the line). Other then the annoying vibrations, (which maybe now is a simple fix!) I have been happy with the performance of my machine, but initially I complained about lack of cleaning too. My needs are different than some people's as it's just me at home and I run mine about once per week. I don't have hugely sloppy messy dishes (I use rinse-only in that case) but occasionally something will dry on during the week that is not easy to get rid of later.

The dirt sensors that these machines have are cool...they don't allow the machine to waste water with numerous pre-washes if the machine "thinks" it doesn't need them. That however shortens the overall cycle, and therefore the exposure of the dishes to cleansing sprays is shortened as well, which is especially important for dried-on foods.

At least in my machine's case, using the secondary detergent cup seems to trick the sensors regardless of how dirty the dishes are - it always goes through the pre-programmed maximum pre-washes when I use that, and it doesn't if I don't put any detergent in there. It's taken a number of trials to figure that out, but it seems to be fool proof. My guess is that this happens because the detergent makes the water feel "slick" to the sensors, just like oily, dirty water would.

So, if you need better cleaning performance and you are not already filling that little extra detergent cup, try it....see if your machine runs a few more pre-washes like mine does. It will use more water, but if your dishes come out clean without need of re-washing, that'd probably be a good thing!


Post# 262599 , Reply# 66   1/31/2008 at 18:45 (3,549 days old) by volvoguy87 (Cincinnati, OH)        
Dishwashers.

volvoguy87's profile picture
My folks have a late 1990s Maytag Jetclean, and it is the best, most flexible dishwasher I have ever used.
While I lived in a carriage house in Savannah, GA for a year, I had a BOL Roper wash-tower machine. While the dishwasher wasn't great, the water heater was turned up to "super scald" and that dishwasher worked great. The only downside was that it was easy to get severely burned.
The same year, I had friends who had a BOL Kenmore and a water heater only turned up to about 125 or 130. We called it the "dish warmer and moistener." That machine would warm the dishes and get them good and wet, but was completely incapable of actually cleaning anything.

I think Maytag Jetclean machines offer the best bang for the buck (for a new machine anyway).
Dave


Post# 262619 , Reply# 67   1/31/2008 at 19:38 (3,549 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        
Yibbles and bit and grit. Oh my!

toggleswitch's profile picture
Ok now I am REALLY confused.
My GE Triton is fabulous, and my KitchenAid tall-tub from about 4 years ago is the pits.

I am VERY tempted to get a Whirlpool two-door model (not the tall-tub)with a Power-clean module, and kick the @#$%^ KA to the curb, very unceremonously.

Loved my 1991 WP portable that I had permanently /properly instaled when I bought an apt.

I am however, through all of this, convinced that the best way to go is to buy the machine wth the absolute WORSE energy/water label there is! Start with the BOL and go for the first one up that has a high-temp was option. FEH.







Post# 262635 , Reply# 68   1/31/2008 at 21:01 (3,549 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        
Vibrating GEs

johnb300m's profile picture
first, make sure the screw holding the rear conduit it tight.

and this is something i just thought of now....try getting a new comparable o-ring and replace it.

otherwise, tie the middle spray arm down just a few inches from the rear. see how that works.

all GE tall tub machines should have some paperwork underneath, that has instructions for testing.
i ran the motor dry, and it did not emulate the "rumbling" that occurs during wash. the motor was as silent as ever.

As for the diagnosis of these GE tall tub machines having a hard time with dried on foods, that sounds like a compelling hypothesis; their short was times. Because the ARE shorter than alot of other water miser tall tub machines.

Running the longest, hottest wash might help out.
But we've never had cleaning issues with our Triton XL. I don't understand hearing people with cleaning problems.

I do know that GE's electronics are just as shoddy as everyone else's.
So your choices are either a shitty WP, a shitty Maytag, or a shitty GE.
Chances are with any of them, you're going to have electronics problems.



Post# 262636 , Reply# 69   1/31/2008 at 21:01 (3,549 days old) by stevet (palm coast florida)        
A question for Toggleswitch!

Just how bad is that Tall Tub Kithcenaid you have? What model number is it? Even though I should know what your answer will be,have you checked to see if it is getting enough water into the tub? Maybe it is at a bare minimum due to low pressure or a clogged strainer screen in the valve and increasing the level will help. You can probably change the fill valve to one where you can remove the flow restrictor and really fill youor KA up to where the float stops the water which gives a really nice charge of water to wash with. I did that on my Whirlpool Du950 and even those short 5-8 second washes during the purges are like a nice fast rinse between cycle portions.

Post# 262658 , Reply# 70   1/31/2008 at 21:45 (3,549 days old) by tlee618 ()        

Thanks for the suggestions Gordon, I live you live alone and usually run the dishwasher twice a week. However I do pre-rinse the really nasty stuff off. My machine has a very tiny second soap dispenser. I usually put a little detergent in that one and then fill the main one. I will try adding more to the pre-wash and see if that helps.

Post# 262690 , Reply# 71   12/31/1969 at 18:00 (17,459 days old) by mattl (Flushing, MI)        

This is strange. I love my GE TT, cleans great every time. In fact if I were to move I'd take it with me. Prior to getting this model I bought a Whirlpool, had it about a month and I actually PAID Sears to take it back - pos.


Inlet presure should have no effect on performance, so the only variable I can see is water temperature. I keep the water HOT, 140+ and during the winter it's always hot due to my furnace humidifier. I use an Aprilaire humidifier that is mounted on the cold air return and the only way to get humidity up around 40% is to use hot water. Perhaps that's the key.


Post# 262692 , Reply# 72   12/31/1969 at 18:00 (17,459 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

gansky1's profile picture
Terry, maybe you could bake a cake and put that in each time you run it - that ought to trip the turbidity sensor into thinking the load is really nasty and it will run for longer times. For smaller loads, you could just use a cupcake ;-)

I can't wait to play with your GE in a few weeks - I'll bring the cake and frozen pizza (ala Maytag commercials) and we'll make a video for YouTube!


Post# 262722 , Reply# 73   2/1/2008 at 06:55 (3,549 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        
Es une gran mierda!

toggleswitch's profile picture
Just how bad is that Tall Tub KitchenAid you have?
Grit and yibbles in the upper rack nearly evey-other load. And they ARE pre-rinsed.

What model number is it?
KUDM01TJWHO

Have you checked to see if it is getting enough water into the tub?
That appears to be OK.


Post# 262723 , Reply# 74   2/1/2008 at 06:56 (3,549 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        

toggleswitch's profile picture
interior; money shot

Post# 262724 , Reply# 75   2/1/2008 at 07:01 (3,549 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        

toggleswitch's profile picture
The silverware/tableware/cutlery is being RE-WASHED from a prior load because it it gritty/sandy/yucky!

I use "normal wash", "hi-temp scrub" and "energy saver dry"
The HTS adds an extra (2nd final rinse) and boosts temps a bit. Can't use hot dry or the yucckies would be baked-on forever!

This is the 2nd control panel "computer-timer" and the power vent never opened until I went in there and played Mr. Destructo.


Post# 262725 , Reply# 76   2/1/2008 at 07:08 (3,549 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        

toggleswitch's profile picture
and the KA was first marked $900. I got it for $450 because there is a *LOL* gash under the clean/dirty "indicator". A little white appliance paint (a la white-outstyle )and voila. sealed up nice and tight.

The basement GE Triton was reduced to $75 @ Homo Depot because it was dusty and had a dent in the lower (access)door.


Post# 262726 , Reply# 77   2/1/2008 at 07:10 (3,549 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        

toggleswitch's profile picture
money shot,

Funny what the camera picks up. I absolutely don't see the dirt on the access door in person.


Post# 262727 , Reply# 78   2/1/2008 at 07:14 (3,549 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        
Don't take your umbrella, we need the rain.......

toggleswitch's profile picture
If I DO put in a new DW upstairs the house will sell next week. If I don't, I will be here for another year... *LOL*

Decisions, desicsions, decisions.


Post# 262748 , Reply# 79   2/1/2008 at 09:10 (3,549 days old) by tlee618 ()        

Believe me Greg, this machine could never handle a cupcake let alone a cake!!! It will be fun to see what you think of it in person.

Post# 262754 , Reply# 80   2/1/2008 at 09:45 (3,549 days old) by peterh770 (Marietta, GA)        

peterh770's profile picture
Are the WP/KM standard tub models still available? That would be my first and affordable choice. Second would be a low end Miele...

Post# 262757 , Reply# 81   2/1/2008 at 09:53 (3,549 days old) by peterh770 (Marietta, GA)        

peterh770's profile picture
Whirlpool DU930PWS

Post# 262769 , Reply# 82   2/1/2008 at 11:25 (3,549 days old) by 48bencix (Sacramento CA)        
I just can't stand it

I looks like my plastic Kenmore may have a leak. I just read the new Consumer's Report. All of the cycles are well over two hours. This is really rediculous. That is normally just two washes, and one rinse, plus dry time. I am so used to throwing the dishes in at 7:00 p.m. and having them done and ready to put away in less than an hour, and totally clean.

Yes, I know it has something to do with enzymes, but this is beyond any rational thought. And, since the kitchen is open to the family room I have to hear that thing run for over two hours, not.

I guess I'll have to find some vintage KA to have the cycles that I want.

Martin


Post# 262793 , Reply# 83   2/1/2008 at 13:56 (3,549 days old) by kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC)        

kenmoreguy64's profile picture
Hi Martin and everyone else who read my comments yesterday about the GE tall tubs that I and my mother have. I have been pretty down on GE since the technician told us that Mom's early 2005 Triton XL needed a new motor. My late 2003 machine was developing the same symptoms, so I had been planning a new machine purchase. I said here yesterday that I would try a suggested fix to our vibration complaint, and I did that last night.

I verified that the conduit to Mom's center wash arm was quite loose fitting and with high water pressure, could create quite a vibration.

We started up the machine, and instantly the roaring/grumbling began. So, I stopped the machine, installed one zip tie, and we did not hear any sign of the noise the rest of the cycle!! If they don't hear it again on another cycle or two, I think we can pronounce the machine fixed, and I'll feel a lot better about GE's product.

I will say this, barring the discussion of the center wash arm, the tall tub GEs do a nice job washing and they sure are quiet when nothing is vibrating. I can rub my fingers together while in front of the dishwasher and hear it. My dishes are usually not very dirty so when it first starts washing and sensing (I have a PDW7800), it usually goes straight into main wash without draining and refilling. If I fill the supplemental detergent cup, it will drain and refill several times before the main detergent cup opens. Not doing that makes the cycle SHORT, like less than an hour (running the basic normal cycle). You may like one of those machines Martin. If we indeed fixed the vibration yesterday, I can give them my recommendation (vs. the hatchet that I was offering them yesterday, lol). We'll give it a couple more trial runs before I say for sure.


Post# 262797 , Reply# 84   2/1/2008 at 14:29 (3,549 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        
GE 7700

peteski50's profile picture
Like I said I have the GE 7700 tall tub from 2003. Mine also will skip the prewash if the dishes are not that dirty. It doesn't matter weather or not I fill the additional cup with detergent. Mine will make the grumbling noise the first few minutes of the cycle and than stop. Where exactally do you install the tie to fix the problem? I am just happy to know their is nothing seriously wrong with the machine. I do like mime and like the fact you get 3 rinses like no other dishwasher today will give. Everything always comes out spotless. I still think GE is the best in todays standards. But of course their is nothing like a older KitchenAid.
Peter


Post# 262804 , Reply# 85   2/1/2008 at 15:30 (3,549 days old) by kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC)        

kenmoreguy64's profile picture
Peter -

I put the zip tie about 2.5 inches back from the rear of the upper rack. I just wrapped the tie around the conduit and over one of the rack wires. I may yet ad another closer to where the two pieces of conduit mate together, but I wanted to try just one initially. Immediately I could tell that the whole spray arm assembly was tighter and rattled less.

Crazy....I am still baffled as to why a legitimate General Electric F A C T O R Y servicer would not know this.


Post# 262818 , Reply# 86   2/1/2008 at 17:52 (3,548 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        
zip tie

johnb300m's profile picture
I first learned of this zip tie method from the fixitnow.com samurais.

The GE repair men are not very intelligent.
With that said, the one that's been in our area for years is a great man and very knowledgeable about the appliances.
It's is "career" and he's very professional.

I can't say much about many of their phone help or other "substitute" repair men we've had.


Post# 262823 , Reply# 87   2/1/2008 at 19:12 (3,548 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        

Bob- you asked me to weigh in, so I will. I've had the GE Profile 9800 for 4 years. And for 4 years, it has performed flawlessly. The racks are flexible, and big, and the machine is fairly quiet. I've heard no reports of any kind of GE motor bearings going bad or premature failures of any kind. If I had to replace it, as I may have to once the kitchen is remodeled for a stainless steel model, I would buy another one in a heartbeat. It's that good. And it doesn't take 2 hours to wash dishes.

Post# 263034 , Reply# 88   2/3/2008 at 07:33 (3,547 days old) by cleanteamofny ((Monroe, New York)        
Rinse agent

cleanteamofny's profile picture
Can someone tell me abaout the difference between JetDry and Cascade Pure rinse agent and which is better?



Post# 263048 , Reply# 89   2/3/2008 at 10:42 (3,547 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
Larry, see my post in the KA dishwawsher problem in this forum/section. I used some of the regular Jet Dry that came with the machine. Leslie (Magic Clean) sent me some Jet Dry Turbo. It's incredible. I love the stuff. Best dry performance I've had in any dishwasher I've ever owned. That includes a couple of GE PotScrubbers, a 1984 Hotpoint PotWasher, and a D&M Kenmore with forced air drying.

Post# 263087 , Reply# 90   2/3/2008 at 17:47 (3,546 days old) by cleanteamofny ((Monroe, New York)        

cleanteamofny's profile picture
Bob, I went to Costco and brought a big bottle of Jet-Dry and to Pathmark and brought the Turbo Jet-dry before reading this new update. So I guess I'm set for the rest of this year.

Can you add the link to your *KA dishwawsher problems!*

Larry


Post# 263088 , Reply# 91   2/3/2008 at 17:52 (3,546 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
Larry, it's thread 15653 on this Deluxe forum!!

Post# 263090 , Reply# 92   2/3/2008 at 18:04 (3,546 days old) by cleanteamofny ((Monroe, New York)        

cleanteamofny's profile picture
k

Post# 263119 , Reply# 93   2/3/2008 at 20:49 (3,546 days old) by vintagesearch ()        

probably a whirlpool or kenmore with adjustable racks *grins* and manual clean filter (less noise). funny though my friend has a MOL slightly older hotpoint dw in her townhouse and the only sound it makes when running is the water thats it its easily drowned out by other things! it sounds like a shower running in there. now hers is broken :(

Post# 263887 , Reply# 94   2/7/2008 at 23:21 (3,542 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        

toggleswitch's profile picture
I'm gonna puke. Looking to replace my KA TT POS.

The Whirpool power-clean system (Two door non-tall tub model)
does WASH-RINSE-DRY when "Normal" cycle is selected.

To get a W-W-R-R-D one has to select "Pots and pans".

EW!

Terry: How many water changes does your GE TT do in a normal cycle? I cant find cycle breakdowns (water use and changes) on GE's website.


Post# 263890 , Reply# 95   2/8/2008 at 00:40 (3,542 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
Well good Steve. You've complained about your dishwasher ever since you've been here. And I'm sorry you're unhappy with it. FYI, extremely happy with my Kenmore Elite TT. And to my amazement, even Light/China cleans my BobLoads of stuff that has sat for 4-6 days without being touched (you've seen how i pretty much tip off large pieces of food, the rest goes in the machine and the TT I have is treated no different). Mashed potatoes and oatmeal sit for days. I did a load that sat for 14 days last weekened. ALL CLEAN. My water heater at best is set at 120. I see very little difference in cleaning between my old GWSD1200 and my new machine. You were one of the main reassons I had trepidations of picking this machine, but it have proven me very wrong ith those trepedations. And I hope CleanTeamNY (Larry) is just as happy with his as I am, when he gets his kitchen finished. And I hope Greg finds something wrong with Terry's dishwasher so that it can be fixed and he'll be just as happy with his GE. And BTW, I did 3 loads on SuperBowl Sunday

Post# 263892 , Reply# 96   2/8/2008 at 00:44 (3,542 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
And ya know what, when I was in Tuscon last March, Terry & I were discussing my 20 y/o GE because he had the same model. He was the one who commented, I should start thinking about replacing it because seals are gonna start going bad and so forth.

Post# 263920 , Reply# 97   2/8/2008 at 08:54 (3,542 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        

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If the GE TRITON is still a water-hog, I may go with that one, circular tower cut-out and all.
Even with such a space-killer, this machine fits large pots in the top rack.
It's quick, washes well and is well-racked. One can also select or de-select a heated wash, a heated rinse and a heated dry.
Does not indicate WASH, RINSE DRY, but I will manage to live past the disappointment.


Post# 263935 , Reply# 98   2/8/2008 at 11:08 (3,542 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Gosh, on Water Miser, both the Kenmore Ultra Clean and the Maytag Jet Clean use 4 water changes of 2 gallons each. The Kenmore has the WP power clean module and the Maytag has that super fine filter and they wash great. Most anything with heavier than normal soil comes out clean if I add water heating to prolong the wash. The 18s are great cleaners. They do use more water, but hold more, too. The country was about 4 years into the "energy crisis" when the 18 series was introduced. It has two different fill levels; one for the first two prerinses and the first two after rinses and then a higher fill level for the pre-wash and wash. The last rinse uses less than the other rinses so that if Sani Rinse is selected, it heats up faster. But at least they had the sense to fill both washes with enough water to make sure that the pump would have plenty of water to keep up the pressure for good, strong wash water action.

Do these new GE machines have a cycle that does not use the turbidity sensor to check for food soil? The detergent in the second detergent cup makes the water a bit cloudy and that trips the optical beam amd makes the sensor think it is food soil clouding the water so it washes more. John and Jason tell me that most people are not thrilled with the newer dishwashers unless they pre rinse dishes, but that wastes water, too; it's just not consumed by the machine so the machine gets the good energy rating. Everything has become so corrupted.


Post# 263937 , Reply# 99   2/8/2008 at 11:20 (3,542 days old) by 48bencix (Sacramento CA)        
Owner/Use manual

I looked at the GE and Whirlpool sites and they let you download the owner's manual. You can see the features and wash times for the various cycles. With the sensor dishwashers, the cycle varies according to the soil level.

For those who love to go over this stuff, and possibly help you buy a new dishwasher, check it out.

Martin


CLICK HERE TO GO TO 48bencix's LINK


Post# 263938 , Reply# 100   2/8/2008 at 11:22 (3,542 days old) by tlee618 ()        

Tom, that is just what the GE repair guy told me, "these machines don't use enough water to get things clean". So we now pre-rinse everything and so where is the water savings???

Post# 263943 , Reply# 101   2/8/2008 at 12:08 (3,542 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        

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I use the "Rinse only" cycle every night. And still, the results are scary bad in my KA TT, whcih was a new design at the time it was purchased.

Post# 263946 , Reply# 102   2/8/2008 at 12:33 (3,542 days old) by volvoguy87 (Cincinnati, OH)        
Where's the water savings?

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The water savings is in the dishwasher, silly! You don't think they have to count water for pre-rinsing, do you? That's the problem with regulation as we have it. Machines are regulated to the point where they do a lousy job, necessitating that we use more water, time, and effort dealing with the mess.

I believe appliance efficiency should not be measured in energy use, but energy use to accomplish satisfactory results for a given amount of dishes/clothes. That way, the energy and water consumption can be figured on a basis of "It requires X amount of energy and X amount of water to clean 1 item of standardized dirtiness" assuming that this one item is in a fully-loaded machine, running under optimal load and a normal cycle. This would allow for compensation for different capacity machines, and different levels of dirtiness.
Right now, any idiot can market a dishwasher and claim "Energy-Star" ratings and efficiency out the wazoo, and people will buy it. Unfortunately, there is no minimum standard for effectiveness, thus some of the most efficient appliances also do the worst job.

Just a little rant,
Dave


Post# 264431 , Reply# 103   2/11/2008 at 08:03 (3,539 days old) by andrewinorlando ()        

Are dishwashers rated only on energy use (including energy needed to heat the water, for those machines that heat water) rather than total water use, as washing machines are? I don't recall reading regulations that require dishwashers to use specific amounts of water, as washers manufacturers have to do. Any manufacturer can dumb down a "normal" cycle to meet rigid requirements, then add shitloads of options (pre-wash, pre-heat, added heat, whatever) to give the consumer additional options that will actually get the dishes clean. Or use more water to do the job. Near as I can measure, the GE Profile 9800 uses about 1.8 - 2.0 gallons per fill, to power its 5 level wash system. If I open the door too quickly while it's running, the refrigerator next to it gets a bath. So there is some serious water circulation going on in there, enough so that on several occasions, things have loosened up inside...the collar that holds the wash arm down, and the screw that holds the center wash arm in place have both come apart, requiring re-assembly, and creating quite the racket.

Post# 264476 , Reply# 104   2/11/2008 at 14:43 (3,539 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)        

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That's probably build-quality Andrew.
We've had a GE Triton XL since 2003 and it's never underperformed.
I don't understand the issues with these machines.
They fill with exactly 1.2 gallons of water each fill, yet the pump is able to circulate water at full press.
If they're loaded properly, they'll work. The Triton XLs are quite powerful machines in this "ultra energy conservative" day and age.
I think the Maytag's TTs are OK too, but no direct experience from them.

Depending on your soap, if you fill the prewash cup, it will probably trip the turbidity sensor.
But our family always uses the Cascade tabs so no soap in the prewash. Many times the Normal wash will go directly to the main wash, no real issues with cleanability.

Pots & Pans I think sometimes uses too many water changes even if there's not alot of cookware soil.
So you yesteryear guys should like that. and Maybe use P&P more.


Post# 264516 , Reply# 105   2/11/2008 at 20:00 (3,538 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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In Europe, at least, dishwashers are rated for energy use but also cleaning and drying performance - in accordance to some complicated and detailed norm. A variety of food, such as spinach, egg yolk, tea, ground meat milk and so forth is applied to plates, bowls, cup and cutlery and then either dried for several hours at 176°F or put through a microwave.

Each manufacturer can then dictate how the dishes are loaded and which cycle is to be used for the Energy Label test. This high efficiency cycle may or may not include a cold pre-wash, an extended wash at 113° to 131°F, a cold rinse, a final rinse at 140° to 149°F and an extended drying phase. In order to receive an A for energy efficiency the dishwasher must not use more than 1.05 kWh. Water consumption is not rated as far as I know but obviously, the more water is consumed the more has to be heated. Cycle duration is not rated either, therefore the high efficiency cycle takes approx 2.5 hrs because it has to deliver perfectly clean dishes using very little resources. I don't mind the long duration as I only run the dishwasher three times a week and almost all machines are rated below 50 dB - some as low as 40 dB. And after all: there are always faster cycles for daily use. Bosch/Siemens, Miele and others have introduced options to cut cycle time by up to 50 % without compromising cleaning results.

Having said that, I just have to give it up to B/S/H. Some days ago, I washed a load of encrusted casserole dishes and a pot and some misc items in the upper rack. Used the ECO (-> high efficiency cycle) with the half load option. Granted, the cycle still took close to two hours but everything came clean with a 122° wash, a rinse, an extra hot 158° and a quick dry. Water consumption: a mere 3 gallons. Despite it taking a gallon to fill it won't skimp on pressure. I'm convinced, if loaded properly, the dishwasher could do without the middle spray arm. The lower arm is powerful enough to wash both baskets - I've seen (and video taped) it. Even the Miele, which I watched going through the pre-wash, can't compete with our Siemens as far as water pressure goes. And our DW is even quieter than the Miele.

I took a vid of the Miele but it's a 136 MB large... so I'll have to shrink it before posting.

Here's a video from Miele regarding the Energy Label test

Alex





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