Thread Number: 16949
The Apprentice-Dishwasher Style (U.K)
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Post# 279302   5/10/2008 at 19:10 (5,828 days old) by platinum6 ()        

Hi all. I'd like to share with you my current dishwasher. A Hoover Crystaljet D820 which was brought new in Heelas (John Lewis) in May 2000.

It's a fairly basic model but it's quite good, had it for 8 years now and remarkably, it hasn't broken down or gone wrong in the time I had it. And yes, I am talking about a Hoover lol.

But it's starting to get on a bit and it's not cleaning as well as it should do which means now is the time to get a new dishwasher. Which one is entirely up to me by doing my own little thing.

Coinciding with the current series of The Apprentice on BBC1, I've made my own little version of it with 16 brands on my list and each week, 1 will be fired and that's mainly down to brand quality and reliability.

Here are the candidates:
AEG
Beko
Bosch
Candy
Electrolux
Haier
Hoover
Hotpoint
Indesit
John Lewis
Maytag
Miele
Siemens
Smeg
Whirlpool
Zanussi

In week 1, the Indesit was the first to go due to overall poor quality and reliability and cheap models don't go down too well in my household lol.








Post# 279416 , Reply# 1   5/11/2008 at 12:22 (5,827 days old) by platinum6 ()        

Then in week 2, The Candy was the next to go for the same reasons as the Indesit.



Post# 279424 , Reply# 2   5/11/2008 at 13:44 (5,827 days old) by rolls_rapide (.)        
From your list, fire the following machines...

Indesit Group machines (Indesit and Hotpoint);
Candy Group Machines (Candy and Hoover);
Electrolux Group Machines (AEG, Electrolux and Zanussi possibly also John Lewis);

Haier,Smeg and Maytag. And I'll tell you why...

Some of the above machines are noisy whores from hell. The above mentioned 'Group made' machines have very flimsy baskets and the baskets don't always run smoothly. Basket wheels can also deteriorate over a short space of time, actually dropping off.

Haier machines have a flimsy design too, and they have had problems with spare parts availability. Also, overfoaming of the tub can lead to flooding of the base, short-circuiting the low-slung electrics by all accounts.

I have seen Year 2005 Maytag models, and when I tried to open the door in the shop, the plastic handle on the control panel flexed alarmingly.

Smeg suffer from the dispenser solenoid going wonky, which causes a back-EMF to scramble the computer board; apparently a common fault.

In short, the only machines I would entertain are Bosch/Siemens/Neff Group machines (of the upper price bracket; cheaper versions are thought not to be 'Made in Germany'). The upper Bosch 'Exxcel' & 'Logixx' models are usually seen to be the superior models. Parts are readily available from Bosch, and the exploded parts diagrams are viewable online.

Miele is also OK, but expensive. Parts are only available from Miele, and only their service network has the technical info and know-how.

A year or two ago, Which? Magazine had reliability data, which came to the conclusion that Bosch/Siemens had the best reliability, and that Smeg was problem prone, and even Miele had problems, too.

Bosch machines have a 2-year Guarantee, Miele sometimes has a 5-year on selected models.


Post# 279425 , Reply# 3   5/11/2008 at 13:45 (5,827 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

reamaining:

AEG
Beko
Bosch
Electrolux
Haier
Hoover
Hotpoint
John Lewis
Maytag
Miele
Siemens
Smeg
Whirlpool
Zanussi



My bet for the next week is Siemens...

And the winner probably will be some of The Electrolux Group's brand.


Post# 279467 , Reply# 4   5/11/2008 at 17:58 (5,827 days old) by platinum6 ()        

In week 3, The Hotpoint was the next to go, again due to poor brand quality and reliability. It did however score on style but didn't excel elsewhere.

Post# 279493 , Reply# 5   5/11/2008 at 19:52 (5,827 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

AEG
Beko
Bosch
Electrolux
Haier
Hoover
John Lewis
Maytag
Miele
Siemens
Smeg
Whirlpool
Zanussi


Post# 279545 , Reply# 6   5/12/2008 at 05:20 (5,826 days old) by hotpoint9534 (UK)        

Hmm, I didn't think that Electrolux's dishwashers were that good, certainly not as good as Siemens or anything from the BSH group.

Tom.


Post# 279546 , Reply# 7   5/12/2008 at 05:58 (5,826 days old) by mrwash ()        
Smeg

@ rolls_rapide: Can you tell me more about the problems that Smeg DW have? You can send me an E-Mail if you want. I'm thinking about buying one, but your post unsettled me...

Post# 279557 , Reply# 8   5/12/2008 at 08:26 (5,826 days old) by lavamat78800 ()        
Fire AEG/Zanussi/Elecotrolux!

Since I had an AEG DW for 5 years I can tell you that it wasn´t a good machine at all. The racks didn´t run smoothly and the washing results often weren´t satisfying. At year 5, the upper spray arm stopped running, cos the machine didn´t use enough water...Finally we all werde upset about this machine and bought a TOL Bosch, which was rated best at a german consumer magzine, even better than Miele! I´m so satisfied with this machine and would never give it away!

Hehe, maybe I´ll get soon a second Bosch from my aunt :) Just the same as Rolls-rapide has :D


Post# 279593 , Reply# 9   5/12/2008 at 11:30 (5,826 days old) by washboy2005 (UK)        

Having owned, and used(abused) a Whirlpool dishwasher for 3 years before moving home, I have to say although not super silent it wasnt all that loud. It produced spotless dishes every time, cycle lengths are not extreme, and maintenance was very easy.

I had the semi integrated ADG3552W i think it was.... Said made in germany and had 5 programmes.
Prewash 12mins
Rapid40c 30mins
Eco 50c 130mins
Normal 65c 89mins
Intensive 70c 95mins.

Have to say a brilliant machine, never failed on us. Being used upto 4 times a day at times... It also has a delay start...
There is still some brand new graded models floating around ebay for around the £200 mark if u want to check them out!!


Post# 279606 , Reply# 10   5/12/2008 at 12:25 (5,826 days old) by platinum6 ()        

In week 4, The Beko was the next to go. Although it's slightly better than the Indesit and Candy, the models were a little too basic for my liking and it was no longer good enough to carry on in the competition.



Post# 279610 , Reply# 11   5/12/2008 at 12:39 (5,826 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

AEG
Bosch
Electrolux
Haier
Hoover
John Lewis
Maytag
Miele
Siemens
Smeg
Whirlpool
Zanussi


Post# 279654 , Reply# 12   5/12/2008 at 17:23 (5,826 days old) by platinum6 ()        

Then in week 5, The Hoover was the next to go. Over doubts of whether it will be as reliable as the current one. Candy underpinnings don't help much either.



Post# 279685 , Reply# 13   5/12/2008 at 19:11 (5,826 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

AEG
Bosch
Electrolux
Haier
John Lewis
Maytag
Miele
Siemens
Smeg
Whirlpool
Zanussi


Post# 279706 , Reply# 14   5/12/2008 at 20:14 (5,826 days old) by rolls_rapide (.)        
MrWash

The UK Consumer magazine WHICH? had reported previously, about the elegantly designed SMEGs being unreliable (and they weren't cheap either!).

According to postings from field technicians and their associates (have a look through www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk...), the cause of failure is usually a faulty dispenser coil, sending a pulse of energy back to the computer board. This apparently scrambles the chips, and the only remedy is to replace the computer board AND the dispenser.

Failure to fit a new dispenser when fitting a new board, can lead to the same problems all over again within a short space of time.

Hope this hasn't scared you to death!


Post# 279775 , Reply# 15   5/13/2008 at 03:06 (5,825 days old) by mrwash ()        

Thank you so much for telling me. You havn't scared me. I will now look for alternatives :-)

Post# 279819 , Reply# 16   5/13/2008 at 10:44 (5,825 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

Who's next? who's next!?!?!?!

My Ctrl-C is ready... And I´m looking forward to hear "You´re fired"...


:p


Post# 279913 , Reply# 17   5/13/2008 at 17:37 (5,825 days old) by platinum6 ()        

In week 6, The Whirlpool was the next to go. Due to average quality and reliability as well as not having something good or special to offer.



Post# 280115 , Reply# 18   5/14/2008 at 17:52 (5,824 days old) by platinum6 ()        

In week 7, 2 brands were fired instead of the usual 1. The first to go was the Zanussi for having average quality and reliability and also not being the upmarket, innovative brand they once were in the 80's and 90's.



Post# 280284 , Reply# 19   5/15/2008 at 17:24 (5,823 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
And the second brand that was fired is...

Post# 280285 , Reply# 20   5/15/2008 at 18:09 (5,823 days old) by platinum6 ()        

Also in week 7, The Maytag was the next to go. Although they produce some good looking machines thanks to Asko underpinnings, there isn't much point in owning 1 now. Especially in this crucial stage of the competition.



Post# 280369 , Reply# 21   5/16/2008 at 00:19 (5,823 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

AEG
Bosch
Electrolux
Haier
John Lewis
Miele
Siemens
Smeg




Post# 280461 , Reply# 22   5/16/2008 at 18:42 (5,822 days old) by platinum6 ()        

Here's a tune to get you in The Apprentice mood.



CLICK HERE TO GO TO platinum6's LINK


Post# 280509 , Reply# 23   5/17/2008 at 08:42 (5,821 days old) by seamusuk (Dover Kent UK)        
Detergent dispensers causing pcb failure...

seamusuk's profile picture
Hey Guys

Bosch dishwashers have also been prone to this- mine failed at just over 2 years old :(. I still have it in storage at work but am currently using a cheapo Bendix that cost me under £120 and has been fine so far.

Seamus


Post# 280517 , Reply# 24   5/17/2008 at 10:13 (5,821 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
Dishwasher Boardroom

chestermikeuk's profile picture
Well Sir Alan, whilst we are all together why not just cut to the chase and hire me.....the rest of the crowd just arnt cutting the mustard.....!!!!

I cut through the grease with ease, protein runs away from me, my glass wash is superb, I do flexible programming and am willing to take on any task night and day, I provide superb results after every task you request of me, and just get on with the job, I`m sooooo quiet you wont even know I`m working...!!!!


My name, Sir Alan.... is SIEMENS, ......but you can call me Bosch...!!!!


Post# 280534 , Reply# 25   5/17/2008 at 14:23 (5,821 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

T tawt i taw a puddy tat!

Post# 280633 , Reply# 26   5/18/2008 at 16:54 (5,820 days old) by platinum6 ()        

In week 8, The Smeg was the next to go. It scores on style but it doesn't seem to have anything good or special to offer.

Post# 280658 , Reply# 27   5/18/2008 at 19:10 (5,820 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

AEG
Bosch
Electrolux
Haier
John Lewis
Miele
Siemens


Post# 280659 , Reply# 28   5/18/2008 at 19:11 (5,820 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

bye bye smeg (ma)

Post# 281128 , Reply# 29   5/21/2008 at 17:54 (5,817 days old) by platinum6 ()        

Right, who's next?



Post# 281191 , Reply# 30   5/22/2008 at 05:44 (5,816 days old) by lavamat78800 ()        

AEG

Post# 281228 , Reply# 31   5/22/2008 at 11:45 (5,816 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

Bosch or Siemens...?

Post# 281252 , Reply# 32   5/22/2008 at 13:09 (5,816 days old) by lavamat78800 ()        
Oh my God...

How could you fire the brand which prroduces the best dishwashers!? Are you crazy ? A german consumer magazine rated Bosch/Siemens dishwashers best. Miele is only on the second place.
I have a Bosch myself and would never give it away! I do not allow anybody to touch it ;-)


Post# 281255 , Reply# 33   5/22/2008 at 13:22 (5,816 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

Just kidding...

Post# 281827 , Reply# 34   5/26/2008 at 18:37 (5,812 days old) by platinum6 ()        

In week 9, The Haier was the next to go. Although it has plenty of features, there are doubts over quality and reliability. It should of been fired long ago.



Post# 281961 , Reply# 35   5/27/2008 at 12:33 (5,811 days old) by dascot (Scotland)        

No kidding. Was it's name Michael by any chance?

Post# 282053 , Reply# 36   5/27/2008 at 23:04 (5,811 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

AEG
Bosch
Electrolux
John Lewis
Miele
Siemens


Post# 283035 , Reply# 37   6/2/2008 at 17:57 (5,805 days old) by platinum6 ()        

In week 10, The Electrolux was the next to go. Although it's of good quality and reliability, it just didn't cut it in this crucial stage of the competition.



Post# 283050 , Reply# 38   6/2/2008 at 20:31 (5,805 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

AEG
Bosch
John Lewis
Miele
Siemens


Post# 284091 , Reply# 39   6/9/2008 at 12:30 (5,798 days old) by platinum6 ()        

In week 11, It was the final interviews and the John Lewis was the next to go. Although it looks classy and has plenty of features, the styling of it is just too plain for my liking and it will date quickly.



Post# 284143 , Reply# 40   6/9/2008 at 17:20 (5,798 days old) by platinum6 ()        

Now there are 4 finalists:

AEG
Bosch
Miele
Siemens

Who'll become The Apprentice?



Post# 284158 , Reply# 41   6/9/2008 at 19:52 (5,798 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

well....

bosch and siemens are pratically the same, very good DWs
AEG... hummmm, Electrolux... Great DW, but all other Electrolux's were eliminated.
Miele... hummmmm, great DW...
I'm so confused.... all the candidates are excellent.


Post# 284180 , Reply# 42   6/9/2008 at 22:37 (5,798 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

well....

bosch and siemens are pratically the same, very good DWs
AEG... hummmm, Electrolux... Great DW, but all other Electrolux's were eliminated.
Miele... hummmmm, great DW...
I'm so confused.... all the candidates are excellent.


Post# 285533 , Reply# 43   6/16/2008 at 12:28 (5,791 days old) by platinum6 ()        

In week 12, it was the final. Of the 4 remaining candidates, only 1 will become The Apprentice. Now, I'm going to put them out of their misery.

In 4th place and the next to go is the AEG. Good but not quite good enough.



Post# 285555 , Reply# 44   6/16/2008 at 15:00 (5,791 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

I bet Miele will be the one.

Post# 285563 , Reply# 45   6/16/2008 at 15:50 (5,791 days old) by bearpeter ()        
....hmmmm

Problems with my 2 years old TOL Dryer by Zanussi...
Can't wait to get my AEG washer dryer out of storage in 4 weeks!!! (but they are out of the running......) And my slimline Bosch DW of 3 years, in my opinion, could do with an extra rinse on all progs!!! I am lost!!!!!!

I think it will go to Miele......
Won't be able to sleep tonight and will logging on tomorrow to see who did the busines!!!
Nice to know that the failed Dishwashers can't slag their peers the following morning on Breakfast TV when I am waking up, like their human counterparts lol!!!


Post# 285584 , Reply# 46   6/16/2008 at 17:24 (5,791 days old) by platinum6 ()        

The next to go and in 3rd place is the Bosch. A superb and capable machine but it's not really for me.



Post# 285591 , Reply# 47   6/16/2008 at 18:36 (5,791 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
Bosch and Siemens are the same inside

panthera's profile picture
So you might want to explore all the options before rejecting one or the other. Just a thought - I've had Mieles since the early 1980's (actually, only two. My current one and the first one which the idiot movers dropped down the stairs whilst I was moving house. Only 17 years old, for a Miele practically new).
One thing to note: Several UK folks have had trouble getting info. from the UK B/S/H group...whereas Miele and AEG seem to have decent service in the UK. Not that Miele will ever need it.
I wouldn't place too much value on the German consumer tests; they tend to set some very strange priorities - my Miele tested quite a bit higher than far more expensive ones the year I bought mine; the guide book for mine was printed on recycled paper and the more expensive models were still using bleached paper. Made an entire one-half point difference on a six point scale!
But B/S/H are quieter...


Post# 286316 , Reply# 48   6/20/2008 at 22:56 (5,787 days old) by river_realtor ()        

Who wone?

Post# 286577 , Reply# 49   6/22/2008 at 17:41 (5,785 days old) by platinum6 ()        

In 2nd place and the runner-up is the Siemens. A nice machine with loads of great innovative features but it's not quite what I'm looking for.



Post# 287843 , Reply# 50   6/29/2008 at 18:00 (5,778 days old) by platinum6 ()        

In 1st place and the winner of AW's The Apprentice is...

The Miele. The best quality, the best reliability, the best features and it's practically perfect in every way.

So, I'm finally going to say this...

The Miele...You're Hired!



Post# 287932 , Reply# 51   6/30/2008 at 14:17 (5,777 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

I knew you would choose it.

Post# 287971 , Reply# 52   6/30/2008 at 18:42 (5,777 days old) by platinum6 ()        

The chosen model of Miele is the flagship of the range.

The G1833SC.

Simply The Best!





Post# 289622 , Reply# 53   7/9/2008 at 19:15 (5,768 days old) by platinum6 ()        
Now that's what I'm talking about!

So, there you have it. My search for The Apprentice is over and 1 day, the new dishwasher will arrive. I'll let you know soon.

Here are the results.

Hired: Miele Chosen Model: G1833SC. 1st (Hired by me)

Runner-Up:Siemens 2nd (Runner-Up)

Bosch 3rd (Fired in week 12)
AEG 4th (Fired in week 12)
John Lewis 5th (Fired in week 11)
Electrolux 6th (Fired in week 10)
Haier 7th (Fired in week 9)
Smeg 8th (Fired in week 8)
Maytag 9th (Fired in week 7)
Zanussi 10th (Fired in week 7)
Whirlpool 11th (Fired in week 6)
Hoover 12th (Fired in week 5)
Beko 13th (Fired in week 4)
Hotpoint 14th (Fired in week 3)
Candy 15th (Fired in week 2)
Indesit 16th (Fired in week 1)

That's all folks!



Post# 295166 , Reply# 54   8/6/2008 at 19:16 (5,740 days old) by platinum6 ()        

:)


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