Thread Number: 17096
"Hoover Can Handle It"........ I Think Not!
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Post# 281410   5/23/2008 at 16:05 (5,788 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        

samsungfl's profile picture
Hey Guys! As you can probably tell from the post heading, I'm really not happy with my Hoover VisionHD 8KG machine (again!.

After having a brand new motor put on it only in March, the same fault has occured again! Was only washing a small load of towels when, about 40 minutes into the cycle, the same burning smell as before started creeping from under the machine!! After a few minutes of this it tottaly gave up and cut out with a "ping" sound from underneath! I tried to get it to at least drain the wash water and unlock, but I had no luck! It drained for a few minutes, and when it was time to start tumbling, it clicked itself off again!

So After about half an hour of waiting, it finally started getting going for a spin, which sounded terrible I must say!

I really am dissapointed with the serivce of this machine, in all other aspects it has been great, but if its going to need a new motor every few months I just do not think its worth, as they dont' come cheap and Hoover must realise this!!

Any Ideas on what I should do/say to Hoover would be a great help!

Many Thanks!

Richard





Post# 281413 , Reply# 1   5/23/2008 at 16:33 (5,788 days old) by zodawash (Lincolnshire,United Kingdom)        
not again

zodawash's profile picture
Richard you really should stay away from washing machines lol

Steve


Post# 281414 , Reply# 2   5/23/2008 at 16:33 (5,788 days old) by dyson2drums (United Kingdom)        

dyson2drums's profile picture
Ooh, really sorry!
I would say you should get them to give you your money back or a more premium model!
This should be done because a new machine/motor shouldn't burn out so quickly, some last 20 years!
Dyson2drums


Post# 281415 , Reply# 3   5/23/2008 at 16:33 (5,788 days old) by aeg03 (London, UK)        

Ur probably using it too much! lol We've never been thu as many machines as u have. I don't think the small loads that u have posted do the machine any good, nay sound silly but I think its always better to try and load the drum with a full load.

Post# 281416 , Reply# 4   5/23/2008 at 16:54 (5,788 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        

samsungfl's profile picture
It is used alot I will agree to that one lol but its still not acceptable. I do often do large loads as well but you can just tell that the motor cant' cope with such weight, which is why most of my loads aveage out at about 5kg's

plus I dont think its right at all that a 4kg load of towels should do so much damage to a machine with such a large drum, I could wash huge loads of towels even in the Zanussi without this amound of trouble lol allbeit the rinsing was terrible, but It'd do it LOL ! I think its about time I get a refund or something, I cant keep going through having to call them out because the motor keeps over heating and creating burning smells!

Cheers for the comments guys keep em comin'!U can imagine im at my wits end tonight lol

Richard


Post# 281419 , Reply# 5   5/23/2008 at 17:20 (5,788 days old) by dascot (Scotland)        

Call Hoover, ask to speak to a customer service supervisor and advise them that you would like them to replace your machine at no extra cost, or provide a full refund, as the machine is not fit for the purpose for which it was sold. It may be wise to try this with the store you bought it from first, but keep Hoover advised of what you are doing.

Post# 281468 , Reply# 6   5/24/2008 at 01:33 (5,787 days old) by islingtonsteve ()        

Sorry you are having so much trouble with your vision. I and two other friends that have them are over the moon with them. Mine copes spectacularly with all loads thrown at it, even full loads of towels.

It seems that you have been through a heap of machines so as Dyson2drums says, maybe it's time to get a premium product. Good luck


Post# 281480 , Reply# 7   5/24/2008 at 04:57 (5,787 days old) by newwave1 (Lincoln, United Kingdom)        

newwave1's profile picture
Ohh dear. Maybe your folks should cut their loses and buy you a miele!!!! How old is it now richard? You might have a hard time getting it replaced but its worth a try!

Darren


Post# 281483 , Reply# 8   5/24/2008 at 05:18 (5,787 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        

samsungfl's profile picture
Miele seems the only way forward with the way the Hoover's been acting lol! Its about 6 months old now, but bear in mind the motors not even two months old yet! So it just goes to show something isnt right down the line somehow! :S:(!

Its such a shame because I'd keep it if they sorted out the motor issue because I like the way it works, but just throwing the same motor on it is both a waste of money and a waste of my time I think lol

Richard


Post# 281485 , Reply# 9   5/24/2008 at 05:27 (5,787 days old) by newwave1 (Lincoln, United Kingdom)        

newwave1's profile picture
Well you should act fast! They do say though that little loads aren't good for the machine.

You wouldn't have had this problem if it was a real hoover ;-p

Speaking of real hoover, they've dropped the red circle hoover logo on the new optima 7kg machines :(

Darren


Post# 281488 , Reply# 10   5/24/2008 at 05:55 (5,787 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        

samsungfl's profile picture
Yeah I will do! There meant to be coming out to it on Tuesday but I dont think I'm going to let them fix it!! Thing is though, I do small loads simply because the motor cant handle larger loads too often. :(!

Yeah Ive noticed too on the new Hoovers that the circle logo isnt on there!!! Whats it coming to eh!?


Post# 281501 , Reply# 11   5/24/2008 at 08:41 (5,787 days old) by aeg03 (London, UK)        

Samsungfl that is appauling the machine is supposed to be able to handle big loads, surely this will be a case that can be taken to court as the machine cannot handle what it is designed to do. So Hoover Candy say anyway.

Theres that video of a Candy mnachine which has what looks like a quilt in it, the machine is really struggling.

My AEG has a capacity of 6kg een though the brohure said 5.5kg, the machine works much better on a full load, only once I had trouble when I washed a new quilt it kept on sudslocking and the spin kept on stopping and restarting so had to literally take the foam out myself and once the machine was so overloaded the machine struggled to get up to speed to balance the load so kept on tumbling on and on.

I would serioly kick up a fuss about this machine, it is not right that you have this trouble again.


Post# 281509 , Reply# 12   5/24/2008 at 09:20 (5,787 days old) by zanussi_lover (Nottingham, UK)        
Richard

zanussi_lover's profile picture
Sorry to hear about your Hoover Richard, First the Samsung broke down, then the zanussi, and now the Hoover, your not having very much luck with washing machines are you?

I can't believe your zanussi packed up so soon, My 2001 Zanussi XC Jetsystem 1200 will be 7 years old in October

its still going stong :)

Get a miele richard or you could go for one of those ise washers they have which have 5 year guarantee



Post# 281566 , Reply# 13   5/24/2008 at 17:34 (5,787 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        

samsungfl's profile picture
Hey guys! I too beliebe that it is appauling that the machine cannot handle what its designed too, Because its quite hard to explain, unless you see it for urself, but the drum is capable of holding so much, but once you go over about 6kg it starts to struggle when it begins to tumble, and starts sparking loads at 1600rpm!

I'm going to be very firm this time with Hoover, because lastime I thought it may just be a one off and had a dodgy motor, but with this one going, I can see a pattern forming! My idea is that I'm going to say to them, repair it this time which will mean another new motor, but if it goes wrong with the same fault( which it will and I imagine it will be the motor again), I will be expecting a refund, and we will splash out on a Miele to stand in its place! We've had too many washing machines now, ever since we got the 14 yr old Bendix machine replaced in 98, we havent had a machine that has lasted a year without breaking down!

So Miele is out last resort!

Richard :)


Post# 281705 , Reply# 14   5/25/2008 at 18:40 (5,786 days old) by mrx ()        

I have an 8kg Hotpoint Aqualtis and it has absolutely none of these issues. Fantastic machine so far, 6 months old now and I haven't seen it struggle with anything.
The large AC motor makes a BIG difference to performance.

Does your model not have one?


Post# 281779 , Reply# 15   5/26/2008 at 10:08 (5,785 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        

samsungfl's profile picture
No this one has the traditional brush motor, one that dosnt seem appropriate for such a large drum! I think its a design flaw to be honest because the motors keep wearing out and overheating very quickly, seems to me that they have installed one which is to small and does not have the power!

Post# 281786 , Reply# 16   5/26/2008 at 11:23 (5,785 days old) by lavamat78800 ()        

I was just thinking about buying a new Hoover dryer, since mine is going crazy every time I use it. But okay, now I have to look for something diferrent.
Richard, IŽm sorry you have so much trouble with your machine. Look forward getting another one, I really can recommend Bosch/Siemens....but my next washing machine will still be a Miele LOL!


Post# 281794 , Reply# 17   5/26/2008 at 12:23 (5,785 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        

samsungfl's profile picture
Thats what Im going to get lol, a Miele! Ive already had the Bosch experience a few years ago when we had a Bosch Maxx, not something I plan on doing again to be honest lol!
Im going to let Hoover fix the machine again but if it goes wrong again we are going to have a refund and get a Miele, nothing else seems up to the job these days from my experience! Maybe I use them too much lol!!


Richard


Post# 281798 , Reply# 18   5/26/2008 at 13:14 (5,785 days old) by lavamat78800 ()        

Richard, I watched your user profile and noticed youŽre 16 years old..just like me :D What IŽd like to know is, what your parents say when your washing machineŽs broken every 4 weeks...My parents say whenever one of our appliances is broken, that itŽd be my fault and I destroyed them...LOL...well, one time they even were right :P

But, IŽd return this machine and get a Miele as soon as possible ;-) Or are you waiting till it breaks down once again, are you?


Post# 281799 , Reply# 19   5/26/2008 at 13:32 (5,785 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        

samsungfl's profile picture
Yeah I'm going to give it one more chance because other than the motor issue it is a great machine!! If it wasnt then I'd get rid of it straight away LOL!

Well my parents are tottaly angry at the fact that we havent had a washing machine last without any trouble for one year since my mum had her old Bendix machine, which got replaced in 98'! But I dont get blamed for it because I do look after the machine and treat it properly ( I like to think so anyway lol)!

Richard


Post# 281800 , Reply# 20   5/26/2008 at 13:40 (5,785 days old) by mrx ()        

You're entitled to a machine that's fit for purpose. If it can't wash 8kg of clothes without burning out the motor then it's clearly not.

I would suggest that you demand that they replace the machine with an inverter motor version. Accept nothing less.

To me it just proves that Candy (trading as Hoover) are still as crap as ever.


Post# 281801 , Reply# 21   5/26/2008 at 14:02 (5,785 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        

samsungfl's profile picture
To be honest I think its just a design flaw on my model, an incorrect motor. The machine itself is a great piece of kit which is built well and is quite heavy , which is why im slightly resisting them give me one with an inverter motor on, they have less programs, So I may as well let them keep fixing it for a while and before the guarantee runs out I'll get the Miele! :D:D

Post# 281820 , Reply# 22   5/26/2008 at 16:44 (5,785 days old) by mrx ()        

Just be very careful that the motor doesn't catch fire!

Post# 281927 , Reply# 23   5/27/2008 at 07:55 (5,784 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        
Video!

samsungfl's profile picture
Thought I'd do a vid of how it sounds now! - Not too healthy at all! Usually theres no motor sound when you turn the drum until it goes past distribution speed!! As you can hear theres a huge diffrence now! :(


Richard


CLICK HERE TO GO TO samsungfl's LINK


Post# 281983 , Reply# 24   5/27/2008 at 14:51 (5,784 days old) by aeg03 (London, UK)        

Why don't you post a video with the machine going then we can see what u are talking about.

I always thought that when My AEG does Spin Rinse with a large load it was always a strain on the motor because sometimes the motor makes a weired noise when the machine does a spin rinse with a large quilt inside but the motor has been fine and is coping well.

Obviously something is wrong with ur machine, it may well be something with the electronic board if this motor is also smoking.

The fact you cannot do a full load is not good, smaller loads continuously does not do the machine any good.


Post# 281996 , Reply# 25   5/27/2008 at 16:11 (5,784 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        

samsungfl's profile picture
I agree! But if I wash large loads the motor simply just cannot cope with it which i think is quite appauling on my part! Obviously Hoover/Candy havent thought enough about the motor on this model, because when you wash a large load, or even a small load of towels for example, it struggles to start a tumble, this is also the case when it ramps up to 1600, really has to force itself, thats when it starts to spark, which is very audiable sometimes. Or another example is when the machine is unbalanced it dosnt make it to 1600, just goes as fast as it can which is usually about 1500!

However like I say, Hoover are not likely to replace the motor on this machine with one capable to work such a large drum, they will just replace it with the same one which will have the same problem! Therefore I am going to let them keep replacing motors for a while, and before the guarantee runs out I'm going to get a refund and we are going to get a Miele! I'm in the process of telling Hoover this, that if it goes wrong again I'm going to get a refund because this design fault is simply not acceptable and something I know wouldnt happen on a Miele washing machine which have been engineered and tested properly and to a level I find is great!

I have been looking at a Miele washing machine to get, and the one in my link below isnt too far out of our budget so I think I will stick with this one! However is not this one, I do liek the 1400 version, with the controls on the top however this means I may have to have the machine sticking out too far as it is underneath a work top!


CLICK HERE TO GO TO samsungfl's LINK


Post# 282070 , Reply# 26   5/28/2008 at 06:36 (5,783 days old) by aeg03 (London, UK)        

Hi Samsung. Would u ever consider AEG? Its not exactly premium but its worth a try, I'd like to see if this machine lasts with you. Miele are very good, will def buy this in the future if our AEG goes wrong, But I would find it hard as I love the Spin Rinses in my Aeg Lavamat and the Water Jet.

Post# 282071 , Reply# 27   5/28/2008 at 06:37 (5,783 days old) by aeg03 (London, UK)        

That Sparking thing u mentioned reminded me of an Indesit we had from 1996, it lasted 5 years but the motor used to spark when it wash washing and I could hear it. When had the light off and was looking under the machine nearby you could see all this sparking underneath the machine when it was washing lol

Post# 282100 , Reply# 28   5/28/2008 at 11:42 (5,783 days old) by mrx ()        

They can't just install an AC motor on a machine with a DC motor as the control module would also have to be changed.

Remember, that an AC motor is a variable speed drive. The control module varies the speed by changing the frequency of the electricity that's being supplied to the motor.

Speed control on a DC motor's completely different. Speed is proportional to the voltage supplied. The controller in this case is not unlike a dimmer switch.

AC Variable Speed controls are quite sophisiticated solidstate electronics and they do impact on the cost of the machine.

I suspect if you had gone for the version with the AC motor you'd be really happy with the results.

It's a pretty bad design if the machine can't turn its own drum.

Candy never cease to be unimpressive.

When they specified the motor they would have known exactly what torque is required to rotate the drum with a full load of wet laundry. They should have ordered a motor that was capable of providing that level of torque reliably.
If they didn't they shouldn't be designing washing machines or any appliances with moving parts.


Post# 282104 , Reply# 29   5/28/2008 at 12:54 (5,783 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        

samsungfl's profile picture
mrx : Thats my point exactly! And thanks for the explanation about how the two diffrent types of motors work! A big help! I really dont understand why they have put a motor on it that cant turn the drum properly, utter crap! I'd of been much better of with a 6kg Beko, like my neighbour has, Ive used it today due to the Hoover is out of order so to speak lol and it runs so much smoother and quieter in comparision to the Hoover, and the Beko is two years old!!

AEG03 : I dont think I would try and AEG just to see how long it lasts to be honest, Ive already had a machine from the Electrolux group ( Zanussi), and even though AEG usually work differently, they are still mostly the same inside! My Cousin has the machine in the link below, and whilst its a good machine, these newer ones work exactly like how my Zanussi did! Which is a bit of a turn off!

Thanks for the comments!

Richard


CLICK HERE TO GO TO samsungfl's LINK


Post# 282108 , Reply# 30   5/28/2008 at 13:15 (5,783 days old) by mrx ()        

Well, we had a Hoover (Candy) condenser dryer a few years ago and it was the worst device I've ever used. Truly woeful machine. I wouldn't go near Hoover with a barge pole these days.

The Hoover Vision machines seemed to be a new departure, however I'm not reading good things.

The Aqualtis on the other hand seems to be getting rave reviews and is working wonders for Hotpoint/Ariston's reputation.


Post# 282113 , Reply# 31   5/28/2008 at 14:07 (5,783 days old) by aeg03 (London, UK)        

Samsungfl. That's so true. Iguess im jus lucky thay my 2002 AEG has slightly differnt programming from the Zanussi's.

Post# 282114 , Reply# 32   5/28/2008 at 14:12 (5,783 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        

samsungfl's profile picture
Yeah! If they were still like how they were then I'd probably buy one! AEG and Zanussi are just far too simular for me nowadays! Miele seems the only way forward lol!

Post# 282227 , Reply# 33   5/29/2008 at 01:13 (5,782 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
Wow!!!

chestermikeuk's profile picture
Hi Richard, sorry to hear about the Vision issues again, what model number is it??? Have sold lots in the last few months and getting very good reviews, no probs yet...you mentioned in another thread about altering the spin speed while its spinning, I wonder if anything to do with that?? its one thing to do it on an old Hottie, I would imagine a different kettle of fish on a machine like this...just a thought!!

Mr X, glad you are enjoying the Aqualtis, the new 9kg 1600rpm in white is really selling well, where are you "Not Reading Good Things" about the Hoover Visions?? did you mean the washers or the dryers??





Post# 282242 , Reply# 34   5/29/2008 at 05:32 (5,782 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        

samsungfl's profile picture
Yeah its quite suprising that I'm having so much trouble! I too have been reading good things about my model LOL! Its been fixed this morning and the engineer has put on another brand new motor!! And he has let me keep the other one so pics will be up later in the day lol!

The new motor sounds good so far, however I'm not getting my hopes up because it could go exactly like the other one! Touch wood it dosnt though!

Thanx for all your comments guys!

Richard


Post# 282246 , Reply# 35   5/29/2008 at 06:09 (5,782 days old) by mrx ()        

I've just read a few reviews of the Vision HD washing machine online on various shopping sites that seemed pretty poor. E.g. faulty doors and stuff!

Yeah, I have to say im very impressed with the 8kg 1600rpm Aqualtis

What's the 9KG like?

Any major changes?



Post# 282248 , Reply# 36   5/29/2008 at 06:43 (5,782 days old) by mrx ()        

Suggestion for going forward with Hoover.

1) Write to Hoover's Marketing Department (on paper, not by email)
2) Explain that you trusted the Hoover brand, loved the product etc and are now really really disappointed and that you've been put off Hoover for life.
3)Explain that the machine's specified to be capable of washing 8kg of laundry.
4) Explain that it clearly isn't able to do this and outline why you think this is the case i.e. the motor is not the correct rating to be able to turn a fully laden drum.
5) Explain that you will be taking this further e.g. to BBC Watchdog, Which? Magazine etc.
6) Say that the only remedy that you will accept is a full refund of the purchase cost of the machine or a replacement with a different model. Explain that you are unwilling to accept a replacement with the same model as it clearly has a design fault and that you want one with an appropriately rated motor.

Quote the purchase price, where it was purchased and all the model and serial number details.

Also, send a similar letter to the retailer that you bought it from. Remember that you contract is NOT with Hoover. However you can usually expect that they will resolve a problem to avoid bad PR.

You can force the retailer to resolve the situation as they are legally obliged to sell you a product that is capable of doing what it claims to be able to do and that is of merchantable quality etc.

Seriously, you should take this all the way as it's ridiculous just writing off several hundred pounds on the basis that Hoover have screwed up a design.






Post# 282250 , Reply# 37   5/29/2008 at 06:49 (5,782 days old) by mrx ()        
Address:

Hoover Ltd
Pentrebach
Merthyr Tydfil
Mid Glamorgan
Wales
CF48 4TU
Phone (01685) 721222


Post# 282257 , Reply# 38   5/29/2008 at 07:40 (5,782 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        

samsungfl's profile picture
Thanks for the info there mrx! I agree with you I should take this matter further, because I do love that machine, not had one that washes and rinses like it before ever so its a shame! I'm going to write to them and tell them that if this problem occurs again I'm simply going to demmand a refund because whilst its a great machine, the hassle of a new motor every few months is a bit much for me!

Motor pics coming soon! Its larger than what I thought as well now its plonked right infront of me LOL!

Richard


Post# 282267 , Reply# 39   5/29/2008 at 08:54 (5,782 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        

samsungfl's profile picture
Motor Pics... Looks quite deep on reflection when I think about it, bigger than the 6kg Zanussi motor which is a plus I supose lol Maybe the first two were in a faulty batch :S?

Post# 282491 , Reply# 40   5/30/2008 at 12:43 (5,781 days old) by sparkymarky1973 ()        

Hi Richard.

Sorry to hear about your machine. Lets hope its third time lucky!

I also am not impressed with Hoover!
As our everyday dryer we have a Hoover Vision HD 9kg Sensor Condensor dryer. Its pants. Its never worked properly since the day we got it.

First of all the drum is to large for the cabinet and everytime it rotates its hits the water container and so you get a constant very annoying knock/scrape as it hits it.

Secondly the sensor drying only works on the lower heat setting. When you put it on high heat it stops and says its ready well before the clothes are dry. Infact they are still quite wet when it thinks they are dry. For some reason on lower heat it works perfectly.

The third thing is that the door seal leaks. The steam condenses on the glass door and runs down over the seal into the bottom. Because the door seal leaks you get a regular drip of water running down the front of the machine. I have to put a towel underneath to catch the water.

Overall.....NOT IMPRESSED with Hoover!

Mark


Post# 282492 , Reply# 41   5/30/2008 at 12:59 (5,781 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        

samsungfl's profile picture
Ahhh! Thats a shame your not getting on with your Hoover Vision Dryer! It shouldnt be making all that noise and leaking! :( Personally I think Hoover have tried to jump the game as it where too quickly producing really large capacity machines just to get a better sales pitch!

Hopefully it'll be a third time lucky case with mine but im not getting my hopes up yet! Just putting it through its paces more then usual to see how it handles!

Richard


Post# 282505 , Reply# 42   5/30/2008 at 15:10 (5,781 days old) by aeg03 (London, UK)        

Samsung you mean Candy. Remember these are Candy produced machines. Candy were never really that good so not like Hoover is going to be much better if they are produced with Candy parts and particularly the Vision being made in Candy's italian factory, its just poor design.

Post# 282515 , Reply# 43   5/30/2008 at 17:12 (5,781 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        

samsungfl's profile picture
Yeah I know their made by Candy but I go on what the badge on the my washer says, which is Hoover. Also I can only only comment on the washer side of things here, but I wouldnt call the Hoover Vision a bad design, despite the motor trouble Ive had with it I'm still quite determined to keep it because of the outstanding wash and rinsing results it produces. Inside its made quite well now Ive had a look underneath which is quite reasurring so I am willing to keep it, although the motor issue is an annoyance.

The engineer who has been out to my washer also has said hes had no problems with these models so far. However this is not to say I'm okay with the motors burning out so frequently, jus trying to state fact that the Vision's arent completley bad designs!

Also an update : I've been running the Hoover alot since the motor was installed yesterday and all is well so far ( Touch wood!) Its great, now when you turn the drum, there isnt any sound at all, which is how its supposed to be lol

Richard


Post# 282538 , Reply# 44   5/30/2008 at 20:25 (5,781 days old) by aeg03 (London, UK)        

The Hoover engineer would say that. If a machine's motor could not handle the load it was intended for then it is down to poor design.

If this motor gives you problems down the line then there is definatley something wrong with the machine, only time will tell.

I can wash small loads, big loads, the machine spins full of water to do its spin rinse and I have not encountered a problem with my AEG Lavamat which was bought in 2002 apart from the silly thing spinning sometimes when its not balanced.

I really hope ur machine has now been fixed good and proper. If it has a problem after this I would not accep another repair myself. Good Luck with it.


Post# 282603 , Reply# 45   5/31/2008 at 05:35 (5,780 days old) by rolls_rapide (.)        
Speaking of Hoover machines...

A neighbour had a Hoover 'Nextra' delivered this morning, and the delivery men removed the external packing; also flinging away the corrugated plastic noise absorption panel that fits underneath the machine.

This panel is very flimsy, and on first glance certainly appears to be a piece of rubbish but I know better!

So I legged it down the stairs and spoke to the guys, and they retrieved it from their rubbish pile in the back of the van. The neighbour thanked me.

I've seen this happen far too often, so I insist that any new machines are delivered to me as they left the factory - in the packaging.


Post# 282629 , Reply# 46   5/31/2008 at 10:32 (5,780 days old) by zodawash (Lincolnshire,United Kingdom)        
Hoover packing

zodawash's profile picture
Yeah installing a Hoover Candy machine was always a bit of a pain because of that panel you have to tip the machine on its side and fit it with the sticky bits they supply, also pull out the polystyrene blocks inside the machine. No good if ur not fit and cant tip a machine over and bring it back upright lol.
Steve


Post# 282829 , Reply# 47   6/1/2008 at 14:12 (5,779 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        

samsungfl's profile picture
I noticed that to when ours was delivered! Certainly not an easy task tiping that beast over - weighing in at 86KG from the manual, even I needed a bit of assistance lol!

Also, the vid below shows how it sounds now when you turn the drum better, its like a 100% improvement compared to the other video hehe! :) Lets hope it stays that way, and dosnt try setting itself on fire again LOL - I also noticed that on the old motor, down the sides the metal has turned a burnt black colour, must take a pic of that hehe!


Richard


CLICK HERE TO GO TO samsungfl's LINK


Post# 282994 , Reply# 48   6/2/2008 at 12:36 (5,778 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        
Looks like the Hoover isnt to stay!

samsungfl's profile picture
Washed an average sized load in the Hoover today and to my amazement and sheer disappointment it started creating that burning smell during the main wash and cut out ! Only 4 days into it being repaired! I'm quite horrified to be honest, I think there is a serious fault somewhere and I cannot be the only one experiencing trouble with this model! Its also pathetic that the engineer cannot pin - point why this keeps on happening, personally I think they know what the problem is but there keeping it under wraps because it will cost them too much money!

First thing tomorow Hoover/Candy will be getting a not so pleasant phone call! - Im tottally appauled!


Richard


Post# 282997 , Reply# 49   6/2/2008 at 13:00 (5,778 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
Ohhhh

chestermikeuk's profile picture
I see its the Vision VHD8162?? I wonder if its the Heater circuit?? does it start to smell at the end of wash or start of the heater coming on?? can you tell, It may give the engineer more information to make an informed decision!!!

Sold a load of these and had no probs thankfully, theres always a chance of a rogue machine , but you dont want it to be yours etc...

What you need to do is have all the service information before you in date order, and go through how many faults / calls you have had with this machine, is it the same fault / or is it developing "NEW" faults etc...

Best of luck, Mike


Post# 283000 , Reply# 50   6/2/2008 at 13:21 (5,778 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        

samsungfl's profile picture
yeah your right, the vhd 8162, its definatley not the heater circuit because it heats up without any trouble, it seems to be that after about 45mins or so into the wash, the motor gets far to hot and starts producing a horrible smell, then after that it cuts out.

The engineer tested the pcb e.t.c on Thursday when he came and apprently it was showing no signs of fault, seems the motor is just not right for that machine, the other one which he let me keep has burn marks on it! This will be the 4th call out to this machine now so Hoover/Candy must realise something is up!

Richard


Post# 283004 , Reply# 51   6/2/2008 at 13:58 (5,778 days old) by aquarius1984 (Planet earth)        

aquarius1984's profile picture
Why has this saga gone for at least 3 threads each containing 40 odd posts when it was obvious after motor 2 was installed there were major design faults and you should of had insisted on your money back and bought another machine from some other manufacturer?

I understand this post will probably generate resentment to me but come on! This kind of tomfoolery on Candys part is just mockery to you, the customer.
Why are you letting them take the mick?

Candy have produced total rubbish over the past 10 or more years now under the Hoover name and its shown/showing no signs of getting better.

Get the cash back and put the money into a reputable companies bank account such as Electrolux group/Miele/Asko.

I work full time and 4 call outs is completly unaccepatble to me, thats Ł120 and the rest - in wages that a consumer could potentially lose over this issue.

Surely enough is enough?

Rob





Post# 283045 , Reply# 52   6/2/2008 at 19:15 (5,778 days old) by mrx ()        

If they give you any trouble - go to BBC Watchdog. They deserve a PR disaster for this one!

Post# 283255 , Reply# 53   6/4/2008 at 07:00 (5,776 days old) by sparkymarky1973 ()        
BUMP


Hey Richard.

Whats been happening with the machine lately? Has the motor completly gone again? Did you contact Hoover?

Mark


Post# 283282 , Reply# 54   6/4/2008 at 11:31 (5,776 days old) by dyson2drums (United Kingdom)        

dyson2drums's profile picture
Hi Samsungfl

I am absolutely shocked that your machine has broken again! It's about time you put it right with truth but strong words with hoover that i would like my money back or the 9kg washer. (my suggestion)

Good luck>>>>>


Post# 283297 , Reply# 55   6/4/2008 at 13:02 (5,776 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        

samsungfl's profile picture
Well I think were finally getting somewhere! Had a long conversation with Hoover today and they agree that something isnt right, they wernt too argumentative however they just wanted to send a another engineer down to put another motor on which no one was happy with! So on friday, One of their "more experiened" engineers will be coming over to look at it, because we want an explanation as to why these motors keep burning out, its actually quite bad when you look at the old motor (4 month old!) it is all charred and burnt down the sides, now I think it must of been extremly hot to burn metal like that!

Also, I've researched the model of motor which is on my machine, and I was quite shocked to find out that it is made for a machine of 6-6 and a half KG of dry laundry and a 1600 spin! Not 8kg's! So going on this I do not see how they are going to rectify this problem because they cant really change the type of motor that goes into it due to the mounts on the outer tub e.t.c, therefore I dont think the Hoover will be staying! Hopefully we will get a refund and take our custom elsewhere because quite frankly I wouldnt touch another Hoover unless it was my only option, whether its a 9kg super silent model or not!

Richard


Post# 283301 , Reply# 56   6/4/2008 at 13:26 (5,776 days old) by islingtonsteve ()        

Hey Richard

Sorry to hear you're still having problems. As I've said before I couldn't be more pleased with my 9KG induction vision and after singing it's praises two friends have now bought the same machine and are also extremely happy - one of them replacing a 9 month old aqualtis that had two memory boards replaced.

Had a look on the net and it doesn't seem that anyone else has reported problems with this machine online so I wonder if something else is causing the motor to burn out??

Hope you get it sorted, whether that be a replacement machine or a refund.

cheers


Post# 283311 , Reply# 57   6/4/2008 at 13:52 (5,776 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        

samsungfl's profile picture
Yeah Its a big shame! The engineer who came and "fixed" it last Thursday also thought something else could be causing it to burn out i.e, the control boards giving it the wrong voltage, so he tested it all and it was showing all the right voltages! Also theres now the fact that I know the motors designed for a 6kg machine so it makes sense why it keeps burning out really! Its like putting a small engine on a big car, it wont work very well lol!

I'll be intrested to see what they say on Friday because I dont think they will addmit to the motor being too small, it would cost them too much money and with the way they seem to avoid building their machine properly sends alarm bells ringing that they wont recall the model and change the motor!

Also I dont' like the way the suspension handles the drum it can really go mad making the drum crash into the cabinet of the machine!!! Does your 9kg model ever do that or is the suspension better?!, however wash and rinse performance wise it is great but their design thought needs some SERIOUS thought!

Richard


CLICK HERE TO GO TO samsungfl's LINK


Post# 283319 , Reply# 58   6/4/2008 at 14:27 (5,776 days old) by zodawash (Lincolnshire,United Kingdom)        
Zap!

zodawash's profile picture
I don't think there is a problem with the motor on these machines it can quite comfortably handle the 8KGs and i've sold a few of these now they have been trouble free. The fault must lie somewhere else to keep burning it out. Are u sure your electric supplys ok Richard lol you've dun in a Samsung a Zannussi and the Hoover now all in a short space of time

Post# 283320 , Reply# 59   6/4/2008 at 14:33 (5,776 days old) by newwave1 (Lincoln, United Kingdom)        

newwave1's profile picture
Very suspect. My hotpoint snaps and crashes into the cabinet when it finally decides to spin!!! Drives me mental.

It makes me sad to see hoover in that state. I kind of wish candy aqquired the brand and stopped making things under the hoover name. They have managed to be consistant at making problematic machines in the last 10years!! lol.

I hope you get it sorted richard, it can't go on for much longer, stop wasting your time and get another machine! I think u'd ave been better keeping the zanussi:D lol.

Darren


Post# 283325 , Reply# 60   6/4/2008 at 14:53 (5,776 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        

samsungfl's profile picture
Zodawash : Well after having used the machine its pretty clear it cant handle an 8KG load of washing, it struggles to start tumbling with only a few towels in. The engineer has tested the voltage supply coming from the pcb e.t.c and it all showed fine, also what I couldnt believe is that the engineer said that I should only wash one towel at a time! :S:S! I think they know theres something wrong with the machines personally.

Darren : Yeah it makes me sad to that the hoover is like this! Its really disheartening! And theres no way I'm having a 4th motor put on for the same thing to happen again! Esspecially when the third one has only lasted 4 days without fault! So if all goes well we will be having a refund! Also whilst the Zanussi didnt last very long, it was never a potential fire hazard like the Hoover is hehe!

Richard


Post# 283326 , Reply# 61   6/4/2008 at 14:59 (5,776 days old) by newwave1 (Lincoln, United Kingdom)        

newwave1's profile picture
One towel!? Are they serious?! Maybe thats the safest it can handle without bursting into flame!? In all seriousness, thats not what you want! What would you like to replace it with given the choice?

D


Post# 283328 , Reply# 62   6/4/2008 at 15:11 (5,776 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        

samsungfl's profile picture
I know! The one towel theory is crazy! Me and me mum just looked at each other and I told the engineer thats total rubbish! He also said that because its got a bigger drum, dosnt mean it can take more washing, its so the performance is better! However the manual states that the machine's maximum dry load of washing is 8kg! Which is alot if u ask me lol so I'm sure theres a reason why he keeps on with the excuses!

For a new washer : Me and my mum have been lookin at the Aqualtis, they seem quite good and the reviews are good so it seems like not too bad an option! We were planning just to settle with the 9kg Hoover but Ive read a few not so good reviews about them! One in particular having 3 call outs in under a year which is a bit worrying considering the hassle mine has caused! lol

Richard


Post# 283332 , Reply# 63   6/4/2008 at 15:18 (5,776 days old) by newwave1 (Lincoln, United Kingdom)        

newwave1's profile picture
That engineer sounds like he's full of poop. talk about makin it up as u go along!!!

The aqualtis's are getting good reviews, hopefully there suspension is better than my hotpoint, as it takes about 4years to balance for a burst!!!!!

I think you'd be best of steering away from candy!!!

D



Post# 283337 , Reply# 64   6/4/2008 at 15:24 (5,776 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        

samsungfl's profile picture
lol dont get me started on that engineer, he winds me up like mad, hes one of those arrogant ones who cant give you an answer either!

Yeah I wont be having another hoover/candy unless I really have to lol! From what Ive seen the Aqualtis seems to balance quite well and isnt so fussy! As we both know after the Samsung experience, its one of the most annoying things a machine can do! LOL Ive seen the tol Aqualtis for such a bargin at Ł349 I really hope Hoover hurry up and make up their minds about what there going to do about mine!

Richard


Post# 283444 , Reply# 65   6/5/2008 at 08:23 (5,775 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
Hoover

chestermikeuk's profile picture
Hope all goes well tomorrow and you get what you need!!! it does sound like its something else thats triggering the motor burning!!!

Have you had any issues with any other electrical goods in your house??
Since the last motor, have you altered the spin speed whilst it was running like you said you had done in the Hotpoint thread??

I dont personlly IMHO think the motor is underrated as we would be seeing / hearing about a lot more machines etc, I`ve had no probs with and of the 8kg & 9KG visions etc....perhaps time will tell..

I do find it strange that certain people bang on about the good old days as if everything was a bed of roses with vintage machines, all the main brands have had disasters of some sort or another during their lifetime,,,split drums, duff motors, bust bearings..and what does it all come down to, probably IMHO companies looking to reduce manufacturing costs anyway possible at a time when the "Customer is Prince Regent" and the "Shareholder is King", and not as it should be!!

Its all down to the bottom line folks!!!


Post# 283460 , Reply# 66   6/5/2008 at 11:43 (5,775 days old) by dyson2drums (United Kingdom)        

dyson2drums's profile picture
"GOOD LUCK"

Hope they are willing to do what you say!


Post# 283465 , Reply# 67   6/5/2008 at 12:51 (5,775 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        

samsungfl's profile picture
No Ive never had any other problems with electrical goods in my house before, the wiring and everything is actually quite new lol!

Well im convinced now that Ive read the spec of the motor thats in my machine that its too small, made for to take 6kg of dry washing! You can tell this when u wash heavy loads it really struggles to strat tumbling, and this is only a few towels were talking about! I dred to think what would happen if you did a full load of towels in it!

dyson2drums : Yeah I hope there willing to do what I say! They probably will, there customer service is actually quite good! About the only thing that is with Hoover/Candy it seems lol

Richard


Post# 283469 , Reply# 68   6/5/2008 at 13:53 (5,775 days old) by aeg03 (London, UK)        

I personnaly think that my AEG 6KG drum looks bigger than the Hoover 8KG drums.

That is so poor that he machine motor keeps burning out. That video of it spinning unbalanced and the machine making all those horrible tapping noises is awful. I bet the suspension isn't adapted to deal with 8kg. My AEG even when it spins out of balance it does not make all those 'metal' noises, the only horrible noise is of the rubber seal twisting up when the drum moves with the inbalance.

With regards to engineers. The AEG engineer who came out (well he was from Service Force)he sais the LG was the brand to go for, well luckily since his visit in 2002 my machine has been fine, he came out to investigate the suspension to find out why the drum used to hit the glass door when washing big dressing gowns.

I think the Hoover machine has to go.


Post# 283472 , Reply# 69   6/5/2008 at 14:36 (5,775 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        

samsungfl's profile picture
AEGO3 : Yeah I have my thoughts about the suspension on the Hoover, it really does let the drum go wild sometimes! And with regards to drum size the hoover drum is massive I must say, after already owning a 6kg Zanussi, Samsung and Bosch, its clear to see that theres quite a diffrence in size!

But unfortunatley I cant really use it to its advantage due to the motor problem! I think it will be going personally! Because like I say despite the washing and rinsing results being amazing, the design fault(s) make it not worth keeping, even lookin at it from an enivironmental side!


Post# 283481 , Reply# 70   6/5/2008 at 15:54 (5,775 days old) by aeg03 (London, UK)        

I noticed the Hoover drum depth is not that much more then my AEG, I measured this, the hoover may have a lightly larger circumference but meaurements from the back of the drum to the glass door is not that impressive.

Only the Dyson which is not on sale had a truely 'large' front loader drum.


Post# 283485 , Reply# 71   6/5/2008 at 16:14 (5,775 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        

samsungfl's profile picture
Well it seems to cope with much bigger loads than my previous machine, the measurements from the back of the drum to the door glass wouldnt be alot diffrent in all honestly because if the drum was bigger in that dimension, it would have to have a larger than standard cabinet, therefore making it stick out in most peoples kitchens... from my observation the drum is bigger than most from where the rim of the drum is, to wehere the holes are at the bottom, its quite deep in that dimension, a bit hard to explain, its easier when you've actually seen it for yourself lol!

Hopefully tomorow they'll agree to taking it away, because its got to the stage where you cant actually use it anymore!, Its a case of " the lights are on.... but no one's home!" Very annoying!

Richard


Post# 283556 , Reply# 72   6/6/2008 at 02:49 (5,774 days old) by washboy2005 (UK)        

Good luck with GIAS Service today Richard!!!
I hope everythings going to go ok!!

Take care


Post# 283574 , Reply# 73   6/6/2008 at 08:56 (5,774 days old) by ariston4life ((Dublin) Ireland)        

ariston4life's profile picture
Soory to hear about your machine, hope everything gets sorted, i think its sad the way hoover has gone down since the candy takover, anyways good look.


Post# 283600 , Reply# 74   6/6/2008 at 13:02 (5,774 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        
Well Well Well!!!!!!....

samsungfl's profile picture
The Hoover engineer came today, at 5pm! His last call! So he began by taking the top and back of and started a visual inspection!

He believes that the motor could be too small, which is causing the problems, however the machine now refuses to do anything, and this is because some of the wiring loom is burnt, and the speed control unit, or the "pcb rectifier" have burnt tracks! This has also caused the pcb module to fail! Pretty poor for such a young machine! The engineer still cannot pin point what the cause is, because if the motor is too small for the drum, which the specification does, this would cause the same problem, however if the pcb was at fault, this would also cause the motor e.t.c to burn out, however it was thouroughly checked the week before by the last engineer!

So this engineer has ordered 4 new parts for it! The most expensive ones : The module, the entire wiring loom, the speed control unit, and the motor!

I personally think this is a very huge waste of materials, because the same thing will happen again and I'm not prepared to sit and watch that happen again! We actually worked out that in its short life, its been almost out of order, more than it has been working! So we have called the retailer of which we bought it from, however because its a Friday we wont get a response until Monday I dont think, but they were very sympatheic and they dont think it should of gone wrong so many times either!

It may take a while but I think we will be refunded, and theres been a change of plan!...... My mum wants a Miele! We worked out how much we have spent on washers in the past and it is shocking! At least we'd actually be able to trust a Miele! :)

Sorry about the essay lol!

Richard


Post# 283633 , Reply# 75   6/6/2008 at 16:58 (5,774 days old) by zodawash (Lincolnshire,United Kingdom)        

zodawash's profile picture
How often do you ramp the speed up and down on this machine when its running?

Post# 283634 , Reply# 76   6/6/2008 at 17:04 (5,774 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        

samsungfl's profile picture
Done it about once or twice when it was about a month or so old so thats out of the question really. Ive got better things to do than sit and mess about with it lol!

I just want a machine that works, but it seems to be to hard for manufacturers these days! Hopefully a Miele will be filling its space soon!



Post# 283651 , Reply# 77   6/6/2008 at 20:31 (5,774 days old) by mrx ()        

The whole thing seems pretty odd.
I saw the videos of the drum going totally crazy bouncing around out of balance. Doesn't look like a well designed machine at all.

The competing Aqualtis seems to run much more smoothly. There's none of that crazy bouncing and shaking.

I think the lesson we've all learned is that Hoover hasn't improved at all.


Post# 283670 , Reply# 78   6/7/2008 at 01:22 (5,773 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
Hoover

chestermikeuk's profile picture
Well I disgree with that, I can (IMHO) only go on what I find from having sold as many Visions as Aqualtis and have had no probs yet, In fact had probs with more Aqualtis with the first batch of faulty door/panel/wiring error code issues, but all these where exchanged swiftly...

I still think its a damaged speed controller which could also confirm the issues with the drum banging about on some of the vids, all it takes is a little diode to overheat and malfunction, a lot of the time its the delicate electronics on these machines that have the issues!!

Lets hop you get the Miele and it does the job!!



Post# 283688 , Reply# 79   6/7/2008 at 08:26 (5,773 days old) by ariston4life ((Dublin) Ireland)        

ariston4life's profile picture
IMHO i think everyone has notices that Hoover/Candy have let us down allot over the years in terms of built quality and fuctioning.

Post# 283703 , Reply# 80   6/7/2008 at 12:42 (5,773 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        

samsungfl's profile picture
I agree Hoover/Candy have let me down bigtime!! The reason why the drum goes so mad is because the suspension springs on the top of the tub are very small, smaller than the ones on my 6kg Zanussi, which makes the Hoover drum very suseptable to any movement!

From my experience I do not believe Hoover/Candy have improved, my machine is proof of that in my opinion! I do still stand by it however and say it did provide an amazing wash, but this cant be up kept by the rest of the machine because it is terribly unreliable! The only part that is built very well on that machine I'd say is the cabinet! Its quite solid in comparision to some previous machines!


Post# 288800 , Reply# 81   7/5/2008 at 15:17 (5,745 days old) by muellershaw ()        

Richard, how is the washing machine now? I have a VisionHD 9kg machine (vhd9143zd 80). 9 months old and it too has started to smoke. Could you let me know more about how you researched the motor. I have an engineer coming onver on the 9th, could do with some info before he calls over.

Cheers


Post# 288805 , Reply# 82   7/5/2008 at 15:38 (5,745 days old) by aeg03 (London, UK)        

I want one of these to rag and rag to see how long it will last. It must be a faulty batch or something.

Remember when Watchdog featured a few years ago the Zanussi's with burning out motors, not just once it happened continuosly. Now this is not heard of and the same motors that are in Zanussi'[s is in my AEG and my AEG works perfectly since 2002.


Post# 288808 , Reply# 83   7/5/2008 at 16:21 (5,745 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        

samsungfl's profile picture
Hey!
My Hoover Vision got collected and taken to the tip yesterday and is now to be replaced by the Miele! I researched the model of motor quite easily because the engineer left the burnt out one behind which had the model and serial number on it! So once I went onto the people's website who make the motor (ACC) I found that the motor was only capable of running a 6kg drum with a 1600 spin, therefore it caused no-end of problems!

For a bit of advice, I'd say before you let them fix it tell them that it is not acceptable,However your problem may not be related to mine because yours had the more powerfull Induction Motor on it, whereas mine had a brush motor! But its still worth telling them that something isnt right, as your not the only who has had the problem with it smoking/overheating now!
Hope it goes well

Richard


Post# 288923 , Reply# 84   7/6/2008 at 05:24 (5,744 days old) by l86810 (Southend, UK)        

l86810's profile picture
Woooooo Richard!!!! What Miele did u get???

You'll love it!!!!!!!!

Get some vids up, hehe!!

Ad


Post# 288925 , Reply# 85   7/6/2008 at 05:39 (5,744 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        

samsungfl's profile picture
LOL We havent' got it yet, weve ordered it but it was out of stock so theyve had to get it in straight from Germany!! I cant wait for it to get here! Plus is very strange having a big gap in the kitchen where the washer is supposed to go hehe! :D

Oh btw its the W3922WPS weve ordered :D



Richard


Post# 288929 , Reply# 86   7/6/2008 at 06:06 (5,744 days old) by dyson2drums (United Kingdom)        

dyson2drums's profile picture
Hi Richard
Good choice, as it has 1600rpm spin and it's 6kg with the special honeycomb drum! WOW!
Plus on the miele website it has a 10year warranty claim form.
This 1600rpm spin leaves 44% moist after spin where as your hoover left 50%.
It seems quite heavey as it is 94kg, maybe because of the cast iron inside.
Congartulations!
Ooh, don't forget videos.
Thanks for all the info, Dyson2drums.


Post# 288999 , Reply# 87   7/6/2008 at 14:31 (5,744 days old) by muellershaw ()        

Update on smokey VisionHD

I took the back panel off the machine to see if I could see any signs of burning - motor and everything looks fine. On further questioning my GF about the smoke she told me it came from the drum when she opened the door. I understand that this can be due to a blocked pressure system - the heater comes on with no water in the drum.

What could cause the pressure system to block?

Cheers


Post# 289004 , Reply# 88   7/6/2008 at 14:58 (5,744 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        

samsungfl's profile picture
Oh it came from side the drum,! Its unlikely to be the pressure system otherwise the machines water levels would start going very strange, either far too high or to low, like on mine the likely suspect could be the door rubber, my one after about 5months started rubbing up against the drum on a fast spin causing it to smoke also!

Hope this helps!

Richard


Post# 289378 , Reply# 89   7/8/2008 at 12:16 (5,742 days old) by dyson2drums (United Kingdom)        

dyson2drums's profile picture
Hi Richard

When is the miele coming?
Thanks for everything.


Post# 289386 , Reply# 90   7/8/2008 at 12:46 (5,742 days old) by samsungfl (United Kingdom/London )        

samsungfl's profile picture
Hi :) I shall post when its here dont worry LOL! With a bit of luck we should have it this week, but it might be another week or so yet because its coming from Germany :)



Richard



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