Thread Number: 18235
Soap Cover Doesn't Open-Kitchenaid KUDS230B
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Post# 296551   8/13/2008 at 20:46 (3,407 days old) by joe89 ()        

Hi,

I have a Kitchenaid KUDS230B dishwasher.
The main soap compartment remains closed
and has soap still in it when finished.
I have tried using less soap, checking
the overflow float,etc. Is there something
I can do to fix this? Does this merit a
service call? I think it's around a 1994?

Any suggestions greatly appreciated.





Post# 296618 , Reply# 1   8/14/2008 at 08:17 (3,407 days old) by mihi ()        
I'm too interested in the answers on this one.....

I have a soap dispenser on a 5 year old Whirlpool that is mis-behaving. I did notice a chip out of the little door that closes, so when I close it I have to manually move the catch over it to latch it. This looks like a weakness on the Whirlpool machines.

Post# 296689 , Reply# 2   8/14/2008 at 14:45 (3,407 days old) by cycla-fabric (New Jersey)        
This could be an answer to the problem

I had that problem recently when I ran my 1991 Whirlpool dishwasher and noticed that that detergent door didnít open too. Well if you are mechanically inclined you can remove the outside front cover of the dishwasher door and you will see the working mechanism for how the dispenser opens. I think it pulls up and releases the catch that allows the detergent door to open. If you have a dial machine you can set the machine to the beginning of wash and watch it go into action, usually at the 2-4 minute mark in the wash cycle it should move. If you have a machine with no dial as I do you will have to choose a cycle with a pre-rinse then wash and watch to see what happens. The rod that opens the detergent door in my machine got dis-lodged and it was just a simple fix to put it back into place. If you donít see any movement of any kind then something else is wrong. Mine got dislodged by my partner always letting the door drop down when loaded with flatware, I told him to stop doing that when I caught him in the act. As that was the reason for how the dispenser door rod got mis-aligned. He doesn't do that anymore.

Doug


Post# 296703 , Reply# 3   8/14/2008 at 15:57 (3,407 days old) by joe89 ()        

I tried it again and it opened. I had run it with the doors open
to clean it out. I don't know if overfilling it jammed it or what? Perhaps I just got lucky on the last wash and it's going
out? I'm testing it again now. I found my upper spray arm water delivery tube was ripped. I went to an appliance repair shop today and got the replacement part. I asked the guy about the soap door. He said it may be a solenoid. Can I fix this myself?
Would it have worked at all as it did on my last test run?

Thanks


Post# 296719 , Reply# 4   8/14/2008 at 18:09 (3,406 days old) by stevet (palm coast florida)        
Repair man who doesnt know his stuff?

So? The repair guy said it was a solenoid.. well he might be close if you consider a bimetal to be the same as a solenoid!
Maybe just a difference in terminology. So I am ready to apolgize if necessary!

That machine was the last of the Hobart designed machines with a dual compartment dispenser. The doors are held closed by a bimetal which will bend out of the way when heated and allows the doors to swing open. There are a few reasons why you could have trouble with these dispensers.

Since you said that it seems to be working now, just be mindful of some of these things that can go wrong.

The bimetals are heated by passing a current thru them which causes the 2 dissimilar metals to bend as they heat up from the amps passing thru them. K/A used two methods of getting this to happen.
They would pass the pump motor current thru them for a specific amount of time and the bimetal spring would bend and the door would open. If there was not enough water in the tank to cause the motor amp draw to be sufficient, the spring would not bend enough and the door would not open.
This scene could cause one or neither door to open. Maybe you had a low water pressure condition and the machine wasn't full enough.
However, on the newer units like the 21 series and up, they switched to having the tank heater current draw pass thru the bimetals thus insuring that enough current will always pass thru them to open the doors. You would have to check your machine's wiring diagram to be sure which system you have.

Another culprit nowadays seems to be the Gel type detergents which seem to gum up the woring parts of the dispensers like the hinges and springs on them. This seems to be the bane of all the newer machines which seem to all use the same dispensers.
Kitchenaid forums have recommended the use of powedered detergents and to stay away form the gels. In many water conditions, the gels can leave residue on the dishes and glasses as well as many of them are clay based.

The other culprit can also be simple water mineral deposits on the dispensers that prevent smooth operation. Deliming the machine or doing a vinegar wash would help.
Also, it is not recommended that you leave the detergent in the dispenser with the doors closed for a long period of time as moisture which may have gotten into the soap and dispenser will cause the soap to adhere to the doors and prevent them from moving as the soap could clump and harden up.

And of course, water circulation is important so as to allow the dispenser to get wet from the action of the water being pumped by the washarms. Try not to block the area and on those K/A's with the washarm under the top rack, make sure nothing impededes the arm from turning like something hitting it from the bottom or thru the top rack. Also, the water delivery tubes do rot out on the bottom. So keep an eye on them. I usually turn mine over every few weeks to make sure they are okay and it also seems to help the tube maintian a good seal with the manifold on the back of the tank and on the rack.

Hope this helps.


Post# 296741 , Reply# 5   8/14/2008 at 20:02 (3,406 days old) by joe89 ()        

Excellent run down stevet!

I wonder if it was clogged soap?
The part shop man said it had
nothing to do with it but it
seems this unit has done this if
the soap compartments are real full.
This time it happened 3 or more times
in a row even with less soap. Then I
ran it without soap with the doors open.

Could my bad water delivery tube have
caused it? It had a quarter inch hole
and a 1 inch rip in it. Perhaps this
affected the water level or keeping the
soap dish clean.

I'll keep you posted.

Thanks stevet and the rest!


Post# 296883 , Reply# 6   8/15/2008 at 10:23 (3,406 days old) by mark_usa ()        

I have a kds 21 parts machine that I will be junking soon. let me know if you need the the bimetal or water supply tube.


regards Mark


Post# 296890 , Reply# 7   8/15/2008 at 10:53 (3,406 days old) by funguy10 ()        

MiHi, our Kenmore Dishwasher has the same problem. When you close the little detergent door you have to push the latch out and catch it manually. It still opens when it is supposed to though.

Post# 296987 , Reply# 8   8/15/2008 at 18:50 (3,405 days old) by joe89 ()        

I have a follow up question. The water delivery tube
has a small hole about the size of a pencil lead
in the middle of the tube. One guy on the phone told
me it goes up. The repair guy at the parts counter
told me it goes down so the water can drain when it's
finished. I have it turned down. Is this correct?

If my soap door opened on the last two runs does this
rule out the bimetal? Would it simply not work at all
if it was the bimetal?

Thanks! You folks are great.

And thank you for the offer on parts mark_usa.
I'll let you know....


Post# 297001 , Reply# 9   8/15/2008 at 19:01 (3,405 days old) by stevet (palm coast florida)        
fix the water tube

Joe, the fact that the water can just pour right out of the tube and provide less backpressure on the pump MAY cause enough of a reduction in amperage draw to prevent the dispenser from working properly. I just checked a wiring diagram for the KUDJ230Y series and is uses the motor amperage to open the detergent cups. If you fix the tube, it may just solve the problem. It doesn't take much to prevent the amps from being high enough to cause the bimetal to not bend enough. You could also try moving the bimetals a bit further away from the door catches by loosening the screws that hold them in place. Make sure you TURN OFF THE POWER to the machine before touching them as they could be live. You will have to remove the from door panel to check this. Also, you will be able to see if the shafts of the dispenser doors are binding or corroded. Dispensers are available; most likely from one of us here on the site. If you need more info, let me know and I can see what I can dig up for you.
Steve


Post# 297039 , Reply# 10   8/15/2008 at 21:16 (3,405 days old) by joe89 ()        

I'll see how it works now with the new tube.

Does the hole go down? :-)
See my post above on this.

thanks


Post# 297113 , Reply# 11   8/16/2008 at 08:41 (3,405 days old) by magic clean ()        
The

hole points down to allow any residual water to drain from the manifold.

L.P.


Post# 297156 , Reply# 12   8/16/2008 at 13:35 (3,405 days old) by stevet (palm coast florida)        
UP! Down! All Around!

I know the hole should point down to let the water drain out of it as Magic Clean has pointed out. I have mine pointing up most of the time so that I can put a bowl or cup over it and know some extra water will get up there since that is the area of the rack that gets the least amount of water. Just something about being obsessive about that point makes my day!
Let us know how you make out!


Post# 297292 , Reply# 13   8/16/2008 at 20:52 (3,404 days old) by joe89 ()        

I'm back at square one. The main wash door failed to open on my last run. The pre-wash compartment had a small amount of detergent in it and the main wash compartment had most if not
all of it's detergent left. So it worked twice and failed on my third run.

Could it be the bimetal if it worked twice and then failed
on third run? Should I replace this myself? And what is entailed
when I do this repair? Can I easily identify and replace it?

thanks


Post# 297297 , Reply# 14   8/16/2008 at 21:04 (3,404 days old) by joe89 ()        

I thought I would add something for diagnosis:

The two times it did work the main wash door was
open when it was completed. However the pre-wash
door was closed. When I opened the pre-wash door
it was completely empty. What is the proper
position of the doors when completed?


Post# 297311 , Reply# 15   8/16/2008 at 22:16 (3,404 days old) by joe89 ()        

Sorry for the triple post. I felt I should consolidate
them into one so as to not be missed. Is there an edit
function here?
-------------------

I'm back at square one. The main wash door failed to open on my last run. The pre-wash compartment had a small amount of detergent in it and the main wash compartment had most if not
all of it's detergent left. So it worked twice and failed on my third run.

Could it be the bimetal if it worked twice and then failed
on third run? Should I replace this myself? And what is entailed
when I do this repair? Can I easily identify and replace it?

I thought I would add something for diagnosis:

The two times it did work the main wash door was
open when it was completed. However the pre-wash
door was closed. When I opened the pre-wash door
it was completely empty. What is the proper
position of the doors when completed?

thank you!


Post# 297505 , Reply# 16   8/17/2008 at 17:27 (3,403 days old) by stevet (palm coast florida)        
Cycle being used?

Joe, what cycle are you using? Some of the cycles only require detergent in one compartment, usually the one labeled "main wash"
Try it using the soak and scrub or at least the normal cycle.These will call for both compartments to open up and dispense the detergent.
At the end of the soak or normal cycles you should have both doors opened. If you use the light wash, it could leave the prewash door closed and the main wash door open.
Also as far as the compartment being empty but the door closed, you could actually wash out all the soap from a closed compartment especially if you run the machine empty. So much water will hit the door it could do what you saw.

Also, one last thing.. how much water is getting into the tank. It needs to have a full charge of water..like 7-9 quarts to cause the motor to draw enough amps to open the doors.
It should be just about up to the top of the strainer.

Check it and see what you find and we await your next report.

BTW, changing the dispenser and bimetals is a piece of cake.


Post# 297514 , Reply# 17   8/17/2008 at 18:17 (3,403 days old) by joe89 ()        

I'm using the Normal cycle. I do have the Sani-Rinse option selected also. It is supposed to heat the water for the rinse.

How and at what point should I check the water level? What is the strainer?

I saw the Bimetal for about 28 bucks online and the dispenser
is 66 bucks.

Bimetal
www.repairclinic.com/SmartSearch/...

Soap dispenser
www.repairclinic.com/SmartSearch/...

Thanks Steve


Post# 297549 , Reply# 18   8/17/2008 at 21:23 (3,403 days old) by stevet (palm coast florida)        
here you go!

got to the link below and see page 9. The water shoould come nearly up to the bottom of the washarm where it sits over the mesh filter.
Also, you should take a look at the dispenser with the door panel off and see if it is corroded or binding. And you can see if the bimetals are yucky or not.

I think you will be able to know more if you check that. Door panel is held on with 4 screws..2 on each side of the door and seen when the door is open

And If you need the parts and don't want to spend that much, let me now. I should have what you need!


CLICK HERE TO GO TO stevet's LINK


Post# 297572 , Reply# 19   8/18/2008 at 00:41 (3,403 days old) by joe89 ()        

At what point do I check the water level? During the wash cycle?

I took the door panel off. It doesn't look too bad.
Are there two bimetals? One for each door? Why would
both doors be acting up?

Can I run it with the door panel off and look for
something?


Post# 297662 , Reply# 20   8/18/2008 at 13:43 (3,403 days old) by joe89 ()        

I added some info so I reposted this:

At what point do I check the water level? During the wash cycle?

I took the door panel off. It doesn't look too bad.
Are there two bimetals? One for each door? Why would
both doors be acting up?

Can I run it with the door panel off and look for
something?

Edit:
I found this info online. It this test accurate?
Should I get a multimeter?

How to test a bimetal switch:
www.partselect.com/repair.aspxQUE...

More on bimetal switch:
www.partselect.com/repair.aspxQUE...


Post# 297959 , Reply# 21   8/19/2008 at 16:05 (3,402 days old) by joe89 ()        

I added some info so I reposted this:

At what point do I check the water level? During the wash cycle?

I took the door panel off. It doesn't look too bad.
Are there two bimetals? One for each door? Why would
both doors be acting up?

Can I run it with the door panel off and look for
something?

Edit:
I found this info online. It this test accurate?
Should I get a multimeter?

How to test a bimetal switch:
www.partselect.com/repair.aspxQUE...

More on bimetal switch:
www.partselect.com/repair.aspxQUE...

Update:

I loosened the screws and moved the bimetal switches
so they don't have to bend as far. I did three runs
with normal cycle and observed with the door panel
off. Both doors opened all three times.

Also checked the water level. It is over the strainer
and at the bottom of the dark disc that the wash arm
is seated on.


Post# 297984 , Reply# 22   8/19/2008 at 17:34 (3,401 days old) by stevet (palm coast florida)        
By Golly! He's got it!

Joe, sounds like you fixed the problem. Sorry I took so long to respond. Had to get things ready for this stupid tropical stoprm which may now impact Palm Coast as a hurricane!

I mentioned adjusting the bimetals slightly out from the hooks so to speak and that is even a factory recommendation to fix the problem.
Also, the water level seems to be spot on so you should draw the proper amperage on the motor thru the bimetals.
If they continue to work,you have it licked!
While you have the door panels off, maybe pack some unfaced fiberglass insulation in there to absorb some sound. just clear the dispenser and bimetals and you will quiet it down some more.


Post# 297998 , Reply# 23   8/19/2008 at 18:57 (3,401 days old) by joe89 ()        

Great!

What is your opinion of the test with a multimeter?


How to test a bimetal switch:
www.partselect.com/repair.aspxQUE...

I never mentioned anything about sound. Is this just
an added trick you're recommending?

Sorry if I got a bit impatient and spazzed out some
on my posts.

I appreciate your help!

Now I don't have anything to fix.
I'm bored :-)

I'll check back if I have anymore problems.

Good luck there with the hurricane.


Post# 298236 , Reply# 24   8/20/2008 at 18:21 (3,400 days old) by stevet (palm coast florida)        
no go!

Can't seem to get the link to work, but hey, you sometimes don't need a multimeter to test these things.. You have us!

Post# 298244 , Reply# 25   8/20/2008 at 18:43 (3,400 days old) by joe89 ()        

I see what you mean on the link not working.

Here's part of it. What does this test tell? If the metal
is completely toasted?

-----------------------------
Now test for continuity using your multimeter. Set it to the x 1 ohms setting. Take each of the meter's probes and touch them to one terminal each. If you receive a reading of infinity, you should replace the switch.


Testing a bi-metal switch

Note:
Disconnect the power source to your dishwasher before you conduct this or any other test. Either unplug the unit from the wall outlet, remove the appropriate fuse from the fuse box, or flip the appropriate breaker in the circuit breaker panel.

Before you can begin to test your dishwasher's bi-metal switch, you must first locate the device. It is located within the door assembly, in very close proximity to the detergent dispenser cup. You will need to gain access to the inside of the door.

Examine the outside of the appliance. Depending on the model, you will have to remove either the entire internal door panel, or the entire external door panel. In each case, the panel can be removed by removing anywhere from 6 - 10 screws. Be careful to not remove the screws at the very bottom of the door that are actually a part of the hinge assembly. Removing the hinge assembly screws will remove the entire door from the appliance, which is not at all necessary to test the unit's bi-metal switch. With all of the screws removed, the door panel should be easy to lift off of the door assembly. If you have difficulty lifting the panel, look for additional screws you may have missed.

With the door panel removed, locate your dishwasher's detergent dispenser cup and the bi-metal switch assembly. Before you begin to test the switch, you should first check its alignment. If the detergent cup door is open, shut it. Use a small screwdriver to gently push in on the metal until the door of the detergent cup opens. It might just be that the switch has fallen out of alignment. Sometimes, only a slight adjustment is needed to allow the switch to open the detergent cup door. If this is not the case with your dishwasher, continue with the test.

There are two wires connected to the bi-metal switch. Label them so that you will be able to correctly reconnect them later. Remove each of the two wires from their respective terminals - they are connected with slip-on connectors. When removing the wires, grasp the connectors and pull firmly. Do not pull on the wires themselves. You may want to use a pair of needle-nosed pliers to help you.

Now test for continuity using your multimeter. Set it to the x 1 ohms setting. Take each of the meter's probes and touch them to one terminal each. If you receive a reading of infinity, you should replace the switch.

www.partselect.com/repair.aspxQUE...


Post# 298826 , Reply# 26   8/23/2008 at 22:56 (3,397 days old) by stevet (palm coast florida)        
Well???

Joe, has it been working okay so far? Looking to hear some positive news!
Steve


Post# 298830 , Reply# 27   8/23/2008 at 23:48 (3,397 days old) by joe89 ()        

Yes indeed it has! I've run it about 7 times with both soap
doors opening. I thank you Steve for walking me through this.

I am curious how the multimeter test works in case I ever
need to test the switches. What does it show? If the switch
has broken metal or the temper, resistance?

Also what do you folks think of the rinse aid dispenser?
I have only filled it a few times in years.

How is the storm Steve? I hope you kept dry.

take care





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