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Thread Number: 19306
Progress, progress on the '63 Dishmobile |
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| Post# 311073 10/23/2008 at 00:32 (5,657 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ) | ||
Well, after another go at sealing the drain valve box (which we will determine to be either a success or a failure depending on whether or not my searching toes land in cold water whilst waltzing across the kitchen tile in the morning), the Dishmobile was in rare form, but developed a fascinating and frenetic leak out the front of the door. Sensing that this was new and different, I took the door apart (two screws at the bottom, two screws behind the timer dial, and voila! Off! Very snappy), and still could not determine the cause of the leak. So, the only thing to do was catch it in action, since the leak only happened while washing. The culprit was a true surprise. You might think it was the splash baffle/door vent at the upper-left, and true, it had been leaking. I added closed-cell foam to fix the space left by a warped rubber outer sleeve on the baffle, and found that this no longer leaked. Plus, anything mounted on the door that leaks runs straight back down into the tub (a truly brilliant and very GM philosophy to design), so even if your Dishmobile had a leaky vent, leaky dispensers, and thousands of pinholes in the door, you'd probably never notice. Or, more accurately, you'd never be clued-in to that fact by a wet spot under the machine. 
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| Post# 311074 , Reply# 1 10/23/2008 at 00:33 (5,657 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ) | ||
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So what was it?
Running the machine yielded the clue. This is a movie (apologies for the darkness) of the rinse-agent dispenser while the machine was washing.
CLICK HERE TO GO TO roto204's LINK | ||
| Post# 311075 , Reply# 2 10/23/2008 at 00:36 (5,657 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ) | ||
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Yes...
Whomever was kind enough to keep the Jet-Dry topped-off in the dispenser caused it to be full of caustic rinse agent for the years this machine sat unused. The rinse agent not only permanently discolored the dispenser box blue at the exact level at which the rinse agent had been, but ate through the solenoid itself, causing water to leak from the left terminal where the neutral wire had been. I am utterly amazed that the machine didn't pop a breaker when it dispensed rinse agent; the stream, as you can see from the movie, was intense. The wire is discolored from the amount of oxidation on the affected terminal. I moved it to the right terminal while taking the picture. The wire is far enough out that the water only partially falls back into the tank; the rest leaks out the door. 
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| Post# 311076 , Reply# 3 10/23/2008 at 00:37 (5,657 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ) | ||
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So...
...I bundled-up and taped off the wires in case I ever find a new dispenser box. In the meantime, I constructed a shield to direct the water back down into the tank from the leaking solenoid. I figured this would not render the existing dispenser inoperable in case I ever found one with a good solenoid or other parts. So, this machine won't ever have rinse agent, but that's not exactly a dealbreaker. | ||
| Post# 311077 , Reply# 4 10/23/2008 at 00:42 (5,657 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ) | ||
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But...
Remember in jakeseacrest's post about his streaky-silverwared KA that I mentioned proper water temperature? Remember the abominable results of the first couple of loads from the Dishmobile, which I blamed on the dishwasher? Despite my bull-headed "I know my own damned water temperature" assertion, I found, after measuring carefully with a thermometer, that our "energy smart" water heater was maintaining the water temperature at more like 120 degrees F, which is totally inadequate for vintage machines. I ramped the temp back up to 145, and both the KA and Dishmobile have been STELLAR performers. The grease-removal issues in the KA are gone, and every last dish in the Dishmobile is spotless. I took some time today and communed with the Dishmobile, and stopped trying to load it like the manual suggested, and instead, used common sense and my inner dishwasher Jedi force. The results were such that everything that fit in the KitchenAid could fit in the Dishmobile, and still get clean. So, I bow before Robert and retract my earlier whines about the racking :-) Here are some proto-Bob-loads for you to enjoy--and yes, they all came spotlessly clean. 
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| Post# 311078 , Reply# 5 10/23/2008 at 00:44 (5,657 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ) | ||
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Bob-load upper rack | ||
| Post# 311079 , Reply# 6 10/23/2008 at 00:46 (5,657 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ) | ||
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Bob-load bottom rack
Tonight's meal offered the spin-tube-preferred oodles of plates, but I did a load with sauce and frying pans in the bottom rack (!) this morning, which the manual said I could do, but I didn't really believe. This'll bake your noodle--even the eggy frying pan came completely clean. And no, I don't believe it, either. Yes, the deep bowl angled at the back got clean, too. 
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| Post# 311080 , Reply# 7 10/23/2008 at 00:47 (5,657 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ) | ||
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Flyover of the bottom rack | ||
| Post# 311081 , Reply# 8 10/23/2008 at 00:48 (5,657 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ) | ||
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Washing dishes before you wash dishes
Not really. The manual seemed overly cautious about defining expectations, but maybe detergent has improved with time? I scraped only, and prerinsed nothing. Even starchy food and plastered-on cheese went in, and the whole thing was run with just two average cups of Wal-Mart dishwasher detergent. Nothing special at all. Spectacular results. Yay! | ||
Post# 311082 , Reply# 9 10/23/2008 at 01:01 (5,657 days old) by appnut  (TX) |
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| Post# 311083 , Reply# 10 10/23/2008 at 01:08 (5,657 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ) | ||
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Well, it is late... | ||
| Post# 311085 , Reply# 11 10/23/2008 at 01:10 (5,657 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ) | ||
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Spin-tube issues
Two primary issues will crop-up, and Bob mentioned these in a conversation we had. Spotting: Spin-tubes spot. Jet-Dry helps, but understanding what causes the spotting helps more. Things spot when they are clean, but were cleaned by reflected water, rather than direct water. For instance, this food-processor pusher was in the bottom rack. Though the inside is clean and free of particulates (I put it in the bottom rack because it was the outside that was dirty, anyway), it spotted, because it was being sprayed only with water from the bottom that had reflected back upward. 
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| Post# 311086 , Reply# 12 10/23/2008 at 01:11 (5,657 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ) | ||
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And then...
Water left in concave objects: These measuring cups, counterintuitively, are perfectly clean, even with their depth. But lots of things, especially in the bottom rack (like fry pans that have to face upward-ish) collect water at the end of the cycle. It's perfectly clean water, and just means that you have to swipe some things with a dishcloth, but it's a spin-tube fact of life. 
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| Post# 311109 , Reply# 13 10/23/2008 at 08:14 (5,656 days old) by tlee618 () | ||
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Very interesting Nate, I am glad that you are having so much fun witht he Dishmobile!! I love your pictures and stories that go along with your posting!! | ||
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Post# 311113 , Reply# 14 10/23/2008 at 08:46 (5,656 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
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"I ramped the temp back up to 145, and both the KA and Dishmobile have been STELLAR performers." Uh huh, yup I don't know about modern dishwashers and don't care because IMO they are not any fun and I would never have one, but hot water is the key to getting clean dishes in ANY vintage dishwasher. My 1956 Spin-Tube usually gets everything clean, the key is learning what works best where in the loading patterns. While I do have an occasional reject, it is rare, in my opinion there is no excuse to not get clean dishes out of a vintage Frigidaire except for improper loading, lack of hot water or a mechanical malfunction. So, I bow before Robert and retract my earlier whines about the racking :-) Actually I found I like the earlier racking better than the later style racking. The top rack in the earlier models (pre-1959) fits larger stock pots. When you visit Nate you'll have to play with my '56 Frigidaire and we'll put on the see-thru door. | ||
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Post# 311300 , Reply# 16 10/24/2008 at 06:47 (5,655 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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I ramped the temp back up to 145, and both the KA and Dishmo
Well, excuuuuuse me for living, BUT, those who heat water electrically, 145 or 150 degrees set water heater would cost a freakin' fortune to keep at that temperature. Greg admitted to me that if he had to heat water electrically, he'd be movin' that temperature setting from 160 down to 120 as fast as he could. Some of us cannot afford such a luxury. Yes, and it makes a damned big differencfe expense wise!!! Yes, I've tried it and it's a big waste of energy and money!!!
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| Post# 311504 , Reply# 17 10/25/2008 at 14:27 (5,654 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY) | ||
Hello Nate! Well, Mister.....
Four bowls of cereal plus a colander full of dry for munching while punching the keyboard IS NOT ENOUGH. Why, you carb-loading maniac!!!! ;'D;'D;'D Loved the short video; always wanted to hear a Frigi DW go. Roto, I was rooted and riveted to your repair story. So satisfying. Thank you. Didn't know you were so gifted. HI BOB, I turn my tank down in the summer to keep the basement cooler. To compensate I add a dash of Calgon and a shot of Clorox to the DW's main wash. Spotless. And I must confess, dear friend, that although I have ceased Bobloading the Clothes Washers, I all, all always Bobload the DW. Keep your temp low, Buddy and try the Calgon & Clorox, a tablespoon or two of Calgon, and 1/4 c. of Clorox after is machine is full of water and warsh warsh warshing away. | ||
| Post# 311572 , Reply# 19 10/26/2008 at 00:13 (5,654 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago) | ||
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| Post# 311836 , Reply# 20 10/27/2008 at 18:24 (5,652 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ) | ||
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Well...
Thanks, guys :-) First off, kudos to SteveD for correcting my ever-failing memory. It's a '64, and it's H line. It's a DW-IMH, and for some reason, my brain kept locking onto the "M," which is, as he mentioned, Frigi-speak for "mobile." Terry-- Thank you ;-). Roger and I have been experimenting with unconventional dishwashing...it's been a treat! I'm getting to be a pro at loading the spin-tube, too; I got a monster load in it the other night, and even the deep plates--set right next to each other with no tine slots skipped--came clean. Yay! Brent--Thanks so much! We'll find a solution...I'm not worried, and the unit works a treat for now. I've posted a pic below of the inside shot of the dispenser. You're right--it's very à la KitchenAid. Good-old Dole. Bob--Then you need an EnergySmart water heater like we have, so it doesn't sit there and try to keep it at 140 all the time. And I might add that, up until recently, all dishwasher and detergent manufacturers said you were supposed to have your water at that temperature for best results. So excuse your greasy, spotty dishes for living :-)  Mike--LOL I know, my carb intake is ridiculous. You should have seen the bowl-o-rama I had going in it last night. I've gotten good at loading it now! You're welcome for the vid, and it really doesn't do the dishwasher justice--it's very quiet, and instead of hearing any "swish, swish, swish" noises, you just here a constant, soft scatter of water. Very Zen. As for mechanical skill, that's debatable ;-). And remember, for cooler temperatures, there's only one tool that'll do:  Steve--Yay! Thanks for the good info. If you have any spare-sies, please let me know, and I'll send bucks and gratitude your way. I can send cookies, too. Let me know :-D 
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| Post# 311839 , Reply# 21 10/27/2008 at 18:33 (5,652 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ) | ||
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John | ||
| Post# 311850 , Reply# 22 10/27/2008 at 18:59 (5,652 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY) | ||
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NATE !!! You're so funny--speaking of roto-rooters and s
laughing heartily at your showing a pic of a detached dancing anal wart followed by a huge blue reamer ;+> If you have time and are set up, how about a longer vid. Hate to ask, since, yours truly, is currently unable to deliver videos at all, but would you like to see the interior of a vintage WP butcher block portable? 
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| Post# 311851 , Reply# 23 10/27/2008 at 19:02 (5,652 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY) | ||
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And the exterior | ||
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Post# 311878 , Reply# 24 10/27/2008 at 21:34 (5,652 days old) by volvoguy87 (Cincinnati, OH) |
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WP!!!!!!!!!
OH MY!!! We had that WP as a built-in. It was one of the builders grade (super BOL) appliances that came with our house new in 1986. It was somewhat loud and never really did a great job (water heater at 120). At least it had an upper spray arm. My grandparents still have theirs 2 houses up the street. I did not care for the racking at all and found it to be poorly suited for Bobloading. It was capable of washing dishes, but not great on capacity. I did like the color of the racks, however. We got rid of it when the wheels broke off of the lower rack and replaced it with a Maytag Jetclean (A HUGE improvement in racking and cleaning capability). For all its faults (including melting some plastics on the heated dry cycle) it never had a mechanical failure or a leak. It also had the silverware basket in the bottom rack, where God intended it to be, not that horrible rack-on-door WP design that just doesn't work! Whew, rant over, thanks for the trip down memory lanr, Dave | ||
| Post# 311888 , Reply# 25 10/27/2008 at 22:21 (5,652 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago) | ||
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OOOOOO | ||
| Post# 311922 , Reply# 26 10/28/2008 at 07:53 (5,651 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ) | ||
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Oh, okayyyyyyyyyyyyy
I guess it's time for a Samantha-approved video. I'll work on that today. Dancing anal wart chased by reamer? Good Lord, I'd love to turn you loose in the Louvre and see the resulting commentary :-P I love that dishwasher! That was the dishwasher we had when I was a kid, only ours was circa 1978 and had the fat bottom wash-arm and a linear (not S-shaped) top arm. Same racks, though. I could get a crap-ton in that machine, although the spray cone in the center of the bottom rack prevented the addition of any big pots or anything (Grr). We never had any problems with washability (sometimes dumping the filter insert was needed), and it was finally retired in 1992 in favor of a KitchenAid KUDI-22 when smoke started wafting out of the door vent during the cycle and we couldn't figure out why (and after I dismantled it when it was removed, I still could not find any wiring that looked discolored or burned). | ||
| Post# 311956 , Reply# 27 10/28/2008 at 12:40 (5,651 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY) | ||
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Interior & Business Deliverers | ||
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Post# 312049 , Reply# 28 10/28/2008 at 19:40 (5,651 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Nate, I've had that water heater since April or May of 2002--right after I got my John LeFever-endorsed 18 SEER Variable speed air handler/2-speed compresser Trane Heat Pump. Nate, I keep it set on Energy Smart setting and 120 degrees, however in the last month or so, I raised it to probably about 130. With the Shredmore, I'm sure it got quite a workout. Now, between the new dishwasher with its slow water fill drawing about 1.2 galls per fill (compared to the GE's 1.8 gallon much faster fill); the front loader that probably only uses about 3 galons of hot water on a warm fill and as of last summer I needed to get a new shower head in my shower and its wateer flow isn't near as fast, I doubt the top portion of the tank element gets that much of a workout anymore compared to when I did a hot wash in the shredmore.
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| Post# 312080 , Reply# 29 10/28/2008 at 21:40 (5,651 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ) | ||
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*giggle*
I am so kidding, Bob. I fully respect your water heater and your dishes ;-). And I think that's why that heater works so well for us; for the dishwashers, it can suck-up the 140-degree water at the top, and pretty much leave the rest alone. My hot-water washes in the Amana are infrequent, so I doubt they pummel the electric bill. Love that heat-pump...we have some random other heat-pump to heat the house here, which surprises the heck out of me, since I didn't think they could do very well in below-zero-winter places. (And, maybe they can't, and it'll be a fun winter :-P). Yours sounds lovely, though! Mike, I love those pics! Now tell me, is that little "standpipe" near the filter a backflush mechanism, kind of like you see on the Frigidaires with the "self-cleaning" filter? I'm curious. | ||
| Post# 312143 , Reply# 31 10/29/2008 at 11:15 (5,650 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ) | ||
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Leslie!
Love it, love it, love it. You are forever providing insight and unlocking great mysteries for us. Thank you!! That's so cool--I had no idea that's what that tiny tube was for. And yes, that was both a very quiet dishwasher (even with a plastic tub) and a great one (though I was forbidden to run the Super Scour cycle--Grrr)--it definitely didn't put much spray racket on the tub. My mom, thus, wasn't totally overwhelmed by how quiet the KA was that replaced it. (I should have begged her to buy a GE so she'd learn.) We always left the rack on the door and never had a problem with this. And the extra bottom rack space was appreciated. Now that it's been years since I had a WP dishwasher, it was odd to move here and have one again, but loading the basket is like riding a bicycle. I too love the loading instructions on the door--isn't that hysterical? All information should be glazed into the porcelain or stamped into the door. :-D It's probably the only way to get the user to read it. And yes, believe it or not, fry pans and saucepans clean well in the bottom rack. | ||
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