Thread Number: 19603
Try to understand why H axxis in EU / V axxis in US
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Post# 314968   11/14/2008 at 10:27 (5,635 days old) by favorit ()        

In the EU/US wash times thread Louis made a very interesting statement: during the 50ies hot water availability (lack of central HW sys) influenced H axxis "leadership" in EU.

So I'd like to understand why V ax has ever been the main design in the US.

Commercial, non spinning H ax machines (side loaders)
appeared on both US and EU since 1920

Household wringer washers were "common" in the US, while in EU they were a rarity. So in the US "many" people had their agitator washers and get used to them.

Then came the time for automatics : the LAUNDERALL ...
maybe people were used to control and interact with their laundry while running... maybe it has been "simpler" and "cheaper" to produce a spinning V ax agitator washer (at those time there were very few electrical devices to solve design issues)....

To cut a long story short, the Launderall didn't become so popular. Later, in the 50ies even the BENDIX and the WESTINGHOUSE didn't invade the US market, otherwise they were even exported in EU, where wringer washers had just become quite common.

So here in EU it happened much later but faster : pratically we had a wide choice in the meanwhile : Wringers W, agitator/impeller twin tubs and non automatic&non spinning H axxis W.

In those times electrotech had improved, so it was mechanically simpler to upgrade old commercial H axxis hard mount washers with the spin feature. No more need of those beautiful but expensive control gears that run the Launderall .... for sure Bendix gave a lot of inspiration.

Could it have gone this way ?
Those are my own guesses, maybe I'm wrong ... can't have a 360° sight.... so I'd like to read your opinions :-)

Carlo




















Post# 315028 , Reply# 1   11/14/2008 at 13:53 (5,635 days old) by vivalalavatrice ()        
O Carlo...

Sembra che tu abbia letto la mia tesi e ti stia facendo delle domande su cosa ho scritto!?

Hard to answer to your questions in so few words but honestly I think all is due once more to the washtime (very interesting the washtime thread indeed).

In vertical axis (by agitating) you don't have any reversing long pause, like instead you must have in horizontal axis to avoid tangling, and this makes cycle longer. Obviously where ther's a need to be doing the laundry less long like it's in USA here you are one reason why there the v-axis is more common.

Are you asking "finalmente" why TLHA is not booming yet over there in USA!!??!

The pic show that v-axis born in EU but has been more developed in US while h-axis (TLHA!!!) born in USA but then horizontal axis meaning FL arrived in EU...


Post# 315031 , Reply# 2   11/14/2008 at 13:56 (5,635 days old) by vivalalavatrice ()        
And this...

...

Post# 315033 , Reply# 3   11/14/2008 at 14:01 (5,635 days old) by vivalalavatrice ()        
wash "rythm"

The whas time is due to the wash "rytm". In US people do laudry more than weekly... like happens in EU, so they want the machine to be faster in performing a cycle....

I suppose none of our american friend would accept a machine like french TLHA that (thanks to the single paddle either) have standard cycle of 150min and sometimes more!!!
Specially if he/she has to do more tha a laundry per day




Post# 315064 , Reply# 4   11/14/2008 at 15:57 (5,635 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
If you are asking why top loading washing machines came to dominate the US market, there are several reasons.

Bendix held all the patents on their front loader, thus anyone trying to copy or improve on that design would have been in for a fight. The only thing to do was to design and build one's own version, which some did with various levels of success.

Until suspension systems improved, front loaders had to be bolted down, top loading machines did not.

Makers of top loading washing machines waged a war against front loaders, telling Amercian housewives that unlike the later, their machines did not tangle her laundry into one long rope. Front loaders at that time only tumbled one way, which depending upon the machine's design, could indeed lead to a tangled mass of laundry. Indeed one front loader with a tilted tub was knick named "the rope maker" by housewives.

Top loading automatics were natural progession for housewives from wringer washing machines. Top loaders held more, and unlike front loaders did not require "special" detergents, but worked well with high foaming soaps and other products commonly on the market.

One can soak in top loader, something women did quite allot of in those days. It was also easier to "check" the progress of one's laundry in a top loader. Again, a hold over from wringers and wash tubs. One simply took a peek at the washing by lifing up items, if they weren't clean, one just reset the machine to start washing again.

Then there are all the same arguments American housewives today wage against front loaders, they require stooping and bending to use, and so forth.



Post# 315196 , Reply# 5   11/15/2008 at 05:41 (5,634 days old) by favorit ()        
thanks

@ Diomede : grandeeeeee !! I didn't know Zanussi began under Westinghouse license ....

@ Launderess : washer sizes EU vs US

I figured american housewives got used to do all their laundry in just one day by several batches since the wringer washer age, in order to re-use suds (whites-->colourfast->colournonfast and so on).

As this habit still survives (1st batch folding-in-progress, 2nd batch in the dryer, 3rd batch in the washer) that's why i.e. the Duets are double sized in comparison of the average euro FL. Is this true ?

[Diomede, I' m a bit BALENGO/naughty.. don't kill me :-) ]

Carlo



Post# 315251 , Reply# 6   11/15/2008 at 17:00 (5,633 days old) by passatdoc (Orange County, California)        
Here's what my mother said....

....since she was a young housewife in the early 1950s and bought both washers and dryers. Here is what she recalls:

1. As Laundress correctly pointed out, top loaders were a natural progression from wringer machines. They simply filled and emptied automatically, and spun the clothes to damp dry.

2. The big name by the 1950s in front loaders was Westinghouse, which also made ranges, televisions, refrigerators, dishwashers, and so on. "You can be sure...if it's Westinghouse." The late 1930s and 1940s belonged to Bendix, but by the 1950s most front loaders were Westinghouse. I remember seeing them in some people's laundry rooms in the early 1960s. Not common, but they existed.

3. What did housewives like about front loaders? Bigger capacity, no stooping. Water and energy were cheap then, so no one looked at the water and energy saving features of front loaders.

4. In addition to small capacities in those days, front loaders had a reputation for sometimes leaking. And the final spin speeds were not so superior in FLs of that era...so drying times were about the same in TL or FL. Performance in terms of getting clothes clean and washing out the suds was comparable, rather than the far superior performance we see in FLs today.

5. In summation, she said you can't look at the superiority of today's FLs vs. TLs and extrapolate back to the 1950s. In her era, the TLs cleaned as well, spun dry as well, had larger capacities, and as Laundress said, most of the detergents sold here were meant for TLs. You could use "Dash" detergent in front loaders and that was about it. About the only clear cut advantage of FLs then was lower water and energy use, and no one cared about that back then. Also, as others have pointed out, most postwar US homes had ample central hot water heaters, so hot water supply was not an issue.

Oh, and one more thing...Mom saw early automatic washers displayed and demonstrated at the New York World's Fair in 1939 as a young girl. Yes, the US was a leader at that time in this new technology. However, the machines (Bendix mainly) were so expensive that no middle class people even dreamed at the time of ever owning one. They simply hoped for a new electric wringer machine, but the world war made these unavailable until the late 1940s.


Post# 315277 , Reply# 7   11/15/2008 at 19:40 (5,633 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Blue Mondays

launderess's profile picture
Yes, for some strange reason, American housewives have clung to doing staggeringly vast amounts of laundry once a week, rather than smaller loads daily, as say their European counterparts. Laundry was treated as the most dreaded part of housework, to be gotten out of the way as quickly as possible.

When it comes do doing lot of laundry quickly, nothing beats top loading washing, be it an automatic or even semi automatic such as a twin tub or wringer.

Also consider American housewives stopped boiling laundry once, automatic washing machines came along, and in either case use vast amounts of chlorine bleach for whitening and sanitising laundry.

Top loading washing machines are easier to produce, thus cost less, much less than front loaders, both then and now. Do remember reading an old issue of Consumers Reports that stated when comparing front loading washers to the top loading variety, the former could and probably would develop leaks around the door gasket.

As Passatdoc mentioned, final high speed wasn't a big draw either, even if many machines had it. America had lots of natural and cheap (then at least) resources, and laundry was bunged into a dryer, be it damp dry or merely "wrung" out. This is one of the reasons vintage dryers were so darn hot. Poor things had to bake out tons of water from laundry that could be almost sopping wet.

After WWII and the US entered the post war boom, between easy credit and a good economy, many homes could afford an automatic dryer, so again, any benefit of high speed spins would have been lost.

Finally consider that the sheer size of the US laundry appliance market, meant often not one washing machine type would do for all. A housewive in a small NYC apartment may have welcomed any space savings from a front loader, but a housewife on a farm in the mid-west or west may have needed not only the large capacity of a top loading unit, but in times of drought and or other water shortages (such as being on well water), needed a way to save on water. That could be anything from a "suds saver" model to a wringer that allowed numerous washings and rinsing with the same tub of water.

L.


Post# 315305 , Reply# 8   11/15/2008 at 22:38 (5,633 days old) by favorit ()        
Darn hot dryers ... know what you mean

Ages ago, while I was in Wales to learn English, I baked some white shirts in a coin op gaz dryer.
Have you ever used the CRISP feature on Whirlpool radar ranges ?? Well, that dryer was quite the same


Post# 315307 , Reply# 9   11/15/2008 at 23:04 (5,633 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
Local laundromat dryers used to "bake" as well, but when energy prices began to rise, temps were taken down a notch or two.

Commercial laundromat front loaders do a pitiful job of extraction, IMHO, and guess those high temp dryers are needed to get out all that water quickly. Afterall one cannot have one customer drying items for hours on end, would slow things down.

L.



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