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Thread Number: 19762
Westinghouse Indexing Washtubs |
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Post# 317209 , Reply# 1 11/28/2008 at 04:49 (5,627 days old) by frigilux  (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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| Post# 317237 , Reply# 3 11/28/2008 at 11:26 (5,627 days old) by laundromat (Hilo, Hawaii) | ||
White Westinghouse
In my own recolection and having had a couple of the original Westinghouse as well as White westinghouse top loaders,the original models did not index as severe as the Frigiscares do.They had porcelain on steel inner and outer tubs,a recirculating lint filter,two seperate swirled agitators and a "Lock N'Spin","Weigh to Save"lid.They would spin with the water in the tub and had a prety good spray rinse.The first one I got needed a new timer and ran faithfully in the compound where I lived my Hippy years for 7 years.We used it 4 or 5 times daily.The turn over was average but the spin speed was not that great.The second one I got was in mint condition but the motor had burned out.I replaced it and it ran for 6 years and I gave it to my cousin,Tom,who still has it in use and replaced its pump once a few years ago.I know that machine must be at least 30 years old now!It is the one with the big blue agitator and a Hand wash under it.You can be sure ....if it's Westinghouse.
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| Post# 317469 , Reply# 7 11/30/2008 at 10:42 (5,625 days old) by scrubflex (bronx, new york) | ||
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Hmm! What about the spin cycles? How can that work, when it's about holding the tub during washes and releasing it for the spins. | ||
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Post# 317489 , Reply# 8 11/30/2008 at 13:21 (5,625 days old) by jons1077 (Vancouver, Washington, USA) |
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Indexing...
In the time I've had my Westinghouse TL I've learned a bit about them. First: a worn belt can create some nasty side effects. Otherwise, the indexing of the tub is not that severe in the older models. Although you can hold the tub in place, it is not really a free-moving washtub. The indexing is systematic in a way. What I mean is it is somehow designed in the transmission to index a certain maximum distance with each agitation stroke. I just did a "Bobload" of towels in mine this morning. I'd say the index was roughly 2-3 inches per stroke. With the opposite stroke the tub stops and even rebounds a little bit. You can also hear a sort of braking sound on each stroke. The other reason I think indexing is designed with the transmission is because you will notice the agitator indexing as the tub is slowing down from spinning. There is no brake, however, the transmission/indexing sort of acts as a "soft" brake. I know there are several videos on youtube. I posted the link to mine on this thread. I tried to capture the above mentioned things in the video such as the indexing, sounds, etc. Jon CLICK HERE TO GO TO jons1077's LINK | ||
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Post# 317658 , Reply# 10 12/1/2008 at 11:52 (5,624 days old) by jons1077 (Vancouver, Washington, USA) |
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Scrubflex,
I'd use the 2-in-1 agitator for sure if I had one! But I don't :-( Actually the ribs you refer to are on the regular ramp agitator as well. I think the only difference between the two is the appearance of the inside agitator. I actually think the GE ramp activator is a better design overall. There are a couple of reasons for that in my mind at least. (just my opinion though) I took a few pictures to demonstrate as well. The first obvious difference between the two is of course the size. V-16 vs. Westy HD 18. Notice also that the curved ramps extend higher up on the Westy than they do on the GE activator. (cue first slide) 
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Post# 317659 , Reply# 11 12/1/2008 at 12:01 (5,624 days old) by jons1077 (Vancouver, Washington, USA) |
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notice...
There is alot more curvature on the Westy. You can see it is a "swirl design" with virtually no straight lines anywhere. The GE has minimal curves, basically only at the ends of the vanes and the curves at the upper areas of the ramps. I really feel that less curve means better drag on clothing. Notice also that there are virtically straight vanes that continue up to the top of the GE. The inward angle is essential, I feel, in creating excellent drag as well. I really feel if the Westy just had vanes on the upper portion of the agitator, the turnover would be much better. (next slide)
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Post# 317660 , Reply# 12 12/1/2008 at 12:06 (5,624 days old) by jons1077 (Vancouver, Washington, USA) |
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More Westy...
Of course the Westy agitator is at a great disadvantage for a couple of reasons. 1. indexing tub 2. much bigger tub It's all in how you look at it too I think. Although turnover may not be as fast in the Westy, I don't think that necessarily means less cleaning. Slow turnover means there IS turnover however. Clothes spend longer in the "no clean" zones (outside and top of the tub) but once they are carried down along the agitator they get a longer period of time in the "clean" zone where they are being agitated. So what you ask? Well, basically I use longer wash times on the Westy to give it enough time to get at least several turnovers. 
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Post# 317661 , Reply# 13 12/1/2008 at 12:10 (5,624 days old) by jons1077 (Vancouver, Washington, USA) |
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More Westy...
Of course the Westy agitator is at a great disadvantage for a couple of reasons. 1. indexing tub 2. much bigger tub It's all in how you look at it too I think. Although turnover may not be as fast in the Westy, I don't think that necessarily means less cleaning. Slow turnover means there IS turnover however. Clothes spend longer in the "no clean" zones (outside and top of the tub) but once they are carried down along the agitator they get a longer period of time in the "clean" zone where they are being agitated. So what you ask? Well, basically I use longer wash times on the Westy to give it enough time to get at least several turnovers. 
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Post# 317663 , Reply# 14 12/1/2008 at 12:17 (5,624 days old) by jons1077 (Vancouver, Washington, USA) |
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Oops Sorry...
Didn't mean to double-post there... (last slide please) Basically just a photo here pointing out the ribs on the regular Westy ramp. All of the agitating is pretty much going to happen at the base of this puppy. It's a much gentler approach when you think about it. It sort of acts as a washboard. The swirled ramps slowly suck the clothing downward. The ramps are generally only moving along clothing in a backwards motion due to the tub's indexing. That pretty much leaves the agitation to the fins and "washboard" at the base. The GE is agitating pretty much from top to bottom more like beating the clothes on a rock. That can also contribute to the idea that filter-flos were very effective at filtering. There is always more lint due to the aggressive washing action. That can be good and bad if you know what I mean. I will try to get a video of a "bobload" of towels in the Westy today. I will also try to get a good measurement and close-up of the tub indexing. I'll get creative and figure out the best ways so that it's very visible on camera. Jon 
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Post# 317667 , Reply# 15 12/1/2008 at 12:49 (5,624 days old) by kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC) |
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Jon - Congrats on EXCELLENT points you've made. I am glad you made the comparison that you did. It has struck me more than once when reading posts here that the coveted "turn over" doesn't do so much on its own as it does in concert with decent washing action once the clothes have been delivered to the "wash zone". It almost seems that we assume that turn over is good for the sake of having it, but something productive needs to be happening in the wash zone, otherwise clothes are just going for a joy ride. I would prefer to have a load turn over 4 times with heavy wash action in the wash zone vs. having them turn over 8 or 12 times with just a flutter of the agitator each time they pass by. I wonder why GE and Westinghouse didn't have some sort of "counter flow" vane on their ramp agitators to create more turbulence in the wash zone, like a combo of a straight vane and a ramp? Gordon | ||
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Post# 317668 , Reply# 16 12/1/2008 at 12:54 (5,624 days old) by kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC) |
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I guess I should clarify....I'm NOT saying that either agitator was/is lacking in design, or is not useful as is. It seems to have been quite the challenge to design an agitator that combines good turn over with good washing action where it counts. It would have been interesting to witness what the designers were trying to accomplish when they designed the older agitators and what studies they undertook before bringing their designs to market. | ||
| Post# 317682 , Reply# 17 12/1/2008 at 14:22 (5,623 days old) by peterh770 (Marietta, GA) | ||
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| Post# 317683 , Reply# 18 12/1/2008 at 14:23 (5,623 days old) by peterh770 (Marietta, GA) | ||
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| Post# 317684 , Reply# 19 12/1/2008 at 14:25 (5,623 days old) by peterh770 (Marietta, GA) | ||
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Gordon said, "I wonder why GE and Westinghouse didn't have some sort of "counter flow" vane on their ramp agitators to create more turbulence in the wash zone, like a combo of a straight vane and a ramp?" Maybe because Kenmore patented it with the Roto-Swirl. I know the PotD for the Roto Swirl speaks to this... Seems to me that the Westy index turns against the swirl (clockwise) and the agitator stroke in the counter-clockwise direction is longer, accentuating the "suck down" and turnover | ||
| Post# 317689 , Reply# 20 12/1/2008 at 15:02 (5,623 days old) by eddy1210 (Burnaby BC Canada) | ||
slight difference | ||
| Post# 317690 , Reply# 21 12/1/2008 at 15:03 (5,623 days old) by eddy1210 (Burnaby BC Canada) | ||
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| Post# 317706 , Reply# 23 12/1/2008 at 16:44 (5,623 days old) by scrubflex (bronx, new york) | ||
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Swirl-Ramp (2-in-1) agitator Hey Ed, I found photos of my Westinghouse (1st love) washer. Harry 
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| Post# 317707 , Reply# 24 12/1/2008 at 16:51 (5,623 days old) by scrubflex (bronx, new york) | ||
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Westy Control Panel whole panel 
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| Post# 317708 , Reply# 25 12/1/2008 at 16:54 (5,623 days old) by scrubflex (bronx, new york) | ||
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5 pushbutton wash/rinse temperature selects and 4 water saver selects 
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| Post# 317709 , Reply# 26 12/1/2008 at 16:57 (5,623 days old) by scrubflex (bronx, new york) | ||
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2 wash/spin speed selector and cycle control dial 
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| Post# 317711 , Reply# 27 12/1/2008 at 17:06 (5,623 days old) by scrubflex (bronx, new york) | ||
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Westy 1st love ...minus the recirculating lint filter system | ||
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Post# 317742 , Reply# 28 12/1/2008 at 19:20 (5,623 days old) by jons1077 (Vancouver, Washington, USA) |
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Very interesting! | ||
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Post# 317774 , Reply# 30 12/1/2008 at 23:26 (5,623 days old) by jons1077 (Vancouver, Washington, USA) |
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FYI... | ||
| Post# 317776 , Reply# 31 12/1/2008 at 23:39 (5,623 days old) by tuthill () | ||
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As soon as Youtube is up and running Can't wait! | ||
| Post# 317869 , Reply# 33 12/2/2008 at 15:10 (5,622 days old) by scrubflex (bronx, new york) | ||
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washtub & agitator... 
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| Post# 317871 , Reply# 34 12/2/2008 at 15:15 (5,622 days old) by scrubflex (bronx, new york) | ||
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pump, transmission & motor 
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Post# 317911 , Reply# 36 12/2/2008 at 21:21 (5,622 days old) by jons1077 (Vancouver, Washington, USA) |
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Ok here's the video finally...
Sorry it took so long. Youtube was down last night but finally have it posted as some of you have already seen. A couple of notes: - From what I could determine, the maximum indexing on the Westy was about 5-6 inches per stroke with about a 1-inch rebound. When it was empty it was about half that. - The GE is the standard size tub so a bit smaller. If it's 2.5 cubic ft then the Westy must be around 2.7 or 2.8. - The towels I used were actually pretty large. I'd say 24" X 60" or close to it. Not bath sheets but big, thick bath towels. (Very thick) Glad you guys like the video and hope it helped answer some questions and relieve some curiosity! Jon CLICK HERE TO GO TO jons1077's LINK | ||
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Post# 317912 , Reply# 37 12/2/2008 at 21:43 (5,622 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA) |
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Post# 317927 , Reply# 39 12/2/2008 at 22:33 (5,622 days old) by jons1077 (Vancouver, Washington, USA) |
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Ben,
you know I'm always voting GE too hehe. Especially after all the work you and I have done to it! Todd, So glad the video was enjoyable. I enjoy making them and making a good video log of any old machines I can get my hands on. Not long ago I wasn't able to have any kind of full-size vintage machine so videos got me through the long nights. :-) Jon | ||
| Post# 317945 , Reply# 40 12/3/2008 at 01:04 (5,622 days old) by scrubflex (bronx, new york) | ||
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westy 1st love---GE love also... Dont get me wrong guys, I love GE washers also. They're another favorite oldie of me. The High-Ramp, Activator's are great. But, the "Heavy Duty 18 (straight, 8-vane) Activator" agitator caught my I fisrt. Any photos? Harry | ||
| Post# 317946 , Reply# 41 12/3/2008 at 01:08 (5,622 days old) by scrubflex (bronx, new york) | ||
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...caught my eye first. | ||
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Post# 317977 , Reply# 42 12/3/2008 at 09:17 (5,622 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA) |
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| Post# 318017 , Reply# 43 12/3/2008 at 17:11 (5,621 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ) | ||
Hoover | ||
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Post# 318031 , Reply# 44 12/3/2008 at 19:06 (5,621 days old) by mayfan69 (Brisbane Queensland Australia) |
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Hoover
This is my Australian version of the Hoover. This design persisted in Australia until the 1980's. Hoover dominated the Australian Washing Machine market with this design for many years through the 1970's and 80's. Leon CLICK HERE TO GO TO mayfan69's LINK | ||
| Post# 318033 , Reply# 45 12/3/2008 at 19:30 (5,621 days old) by scrubflex (bronx, new york) | ||
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Activator's Hey Ben, Your pictures are cool and thanks. However, these Activator agiatator's are for the standard capacity washer. I was hoping for photos of the Heavy Duty 18's in the extra large washtubs. Harry | ||
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Post# 318096 , Reply# 47 12/4/2008 at 09:21 (5,621 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut) |
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My two cents.
From many hours of hypnotically watching the GE spiral ramp activator do its thing: The rollover power of this particular agitator comes from its backstroke: those massive spiral ramps in the middle of the agitator seem to "pull" all the water and clothing into the center of the tub, especially with a full load. On the forward stroke, the vanes at the bottom do some scrub and push work but most of the movement of the load, the drawing up over to the center and down, is always on the back stroke. Back in the day, GE engineers knew what they were doing. Now they just bring good things, like thermonuclear warheads, to life. Harry, thanks for all the pictures. Could you post one of the Westy fabric softener dispenser? I always thought that thing was king of cool: reminded me of the Jupiter 2. | ||
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