Atlanta Kenmores

Jed -

Believe it or not there are five tub sizes in belt-drive Whirlpool/Kenmores 1960 to 1987. To answer your question however, you could determine that this machine is a standard tub by counting the perforations in the tub, vertically. There should be a row of seven holes, followed by a row of six, then seven, then six, etc. The big tubs until 1981 had more than a dozen perfs, but I don't know the exact number (I'll count when I get back home, lol).

The bottom of the tub on a standard capacity machine has a continuous row of perfs in a circle. The large and jumbo machines have three clusters of perfs followed by three solid zones. That may be the simplest way to look. Once you get to know the agitators that go with (there was only the Roto-Swirl and WP's Surgilator that made the transition to both capacities) telling the sizes apart becomes almost instantaneous.

On the five tub sizes I mentioned, they were:

1) 24-inch regular capacity. This is the smallest tub and seems to never have changed, early 60s to 1983. These are narrower and about 1-inch shallower than a standard tub.

2) 29-inch standard capacity. This is the tub that in the 50s had the four rows of perfs in the bottom, then was changed to have two by the early 60s. The tub was unchanged visually exept for the top rim thru 1980.

3) 29-inch standard capacity, post 1981. A change was made affecting standard capacity machines and their jumbo counterparts mid-1981, which allowed both machines to use a common baseplate, simply with longer or shorter suspension rods. To accomodate this the outer and inner tubs of both had to be slightly redesigned. The standard tub retained its original height, but became about 5/8 of an inch wider, and the bottom tub perfs were arranged in groups of three, just like the older large tubs. I have never seen one of these in a residential Kenmore machine, as Kenmore abandoned the stardard capacity belt-drive at this point in favor of increased emphasis on the 24-inch machine to bolster activity later on the new 24-inch DD. Whirlpool however sold a number of these up through the end of the belt-drive. Kenmore did however sell these in the commercial machines.

4) 29-Inch "Jumbo" machines - these debuted in the mid to late 60s as a select sideline model or two for both Kenmore and Whirlpool. The first few years had super-tall centerposts, and the agitator experiments were ongoing during this time including a massive Kenmore straight-vane, a black bakelite WP Surgilator, and a later Kenmore mega Roto-Swirl (I would LOVE to find one of those). The Jumbo machines later settled into a good groove when they were marginally redesigned in 1974 to use the standard capacity agitator shaft and the then new Penta agitators. Tub dimensions were unchaged as best I can tell.

5) 29-inch large capacity 1981 and later machines. These have the standard capacity perf pattern in common with the '81 and later standard tub. WP must have used a common punch die for both tubs. They have the seven / six perf pattern but a significant area above the perfs of solid wall. This tub is 3/4 of an inch shallower than the previous Jumbo and 5/8 of an inch narrower. That may not seem like much, but it's noticeable when comparing two side by side. This is probably the most common tub seen today in remaining active belt drives, since they were produced in huge numbers and were the last made. There was a significant recession in 1981-1983, so when the economy rebounded, many people who had put-off appliance purchases bought the large belt drives in huge numbers. From what I remember the plant in Clyde, Ohio operated on overtime for a number of months to accomodate orders from WP and Kenmore.

The cool part about belt-drives, at least IMHO, is that through these changes, they retained their sounds, their idiosyncrasies, their parts commonality (motors, pumps, timers, transmissions, etc.) and what I think is their charm. There are even a few parts that originated in belt drives that are used in the DDs to this day.

Sorry for the dissertation Jed!

Gordon


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Post# 318162 12/4/2008 at 18:55 (5,613 days old) by pulltostart (Mobile, AL)
Checkrate/Likes These look to be early 70's Kenmores in pretty good shape. Lawrence CLICK HERE TO GO TO pulltostart's LINK on Atlanta Craigslist

Post# 318169 , Reply# 1 12/4/2008 at 20:25 (5,613 days old) by appnut (TX)
Checkrate/Likes Dryer is newer than the washer.

Post# 318173 , Reply# 2 12/4/2008 at 20:55 (5,613 days old) by kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC)
Checkrate/Likes Yep - the washer is a '72 model, dryer is a '74 model. They could have been purchased around the same time however from Sears, one being an older model and the other brand new. With the barn doors down they look the same outwardly I think. That would be a good combination of machines as the large capacity dryer should not have had any trouble with the laundry from the standard capacity washer.

Post# 318180 , Reply# 3 12/4/2008 at 21:34 (5,613 days old) by tuthill ()
Checkrate/Likes *Enlighten me Gordon* How can we tell this is a standard capacity washer?

Post# 318181 , Reply# 4 12/4/2008 at 21:39 (5,613 days old) by autowasherfreak ()
Checkrate/Likes It's the white version of mine, I think.

Post# 318191 , Reply# 5 12/4/2008 at 22:03 (5,613 days old) by peterh770 (Marietta, GA)
Checkrate/Likes It's standard capacity because extra capacity didn't come out for a few more years. This washer should have the Vari-Flex...

Post# 318205 , Reply# 6 12/5/2008 at 00:32 (5,613 days old) by chaskelljr2 (Washington, D. C.)
Checkrate/Likes *KenmoreGuy64* Yep....... you hit the nail right on the head. Both machines are Lady Kenmores....... The washer is a 1972-73 Lady Kenmore w/3-Speed Motor and Vari-Flex Agitator. The Dryer is a 1974-75 Lady Kenmore with nothing more than a different control panel than that of the washer. With the covers down, they do look like a matched set, don't they??? --Charles-- P.S.: Haven't really thought about that until you just brought it up..... :)

Post# 318207 , Reply# 7 12/5/2008 at 00:48 (5,613 days old) by 70series ( Connecticut.)
Checkrate/Likes Both are true beauties. Have a good one, James

Post# 318266 , Reply# 8 12/5/2008 at 12:49 (5,613 days old) by kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC)
Checkrate/Likes Jed - Believe it or not there are five tub sizes in belt-drive Whirlpool/Kenmores 1960 to 1987. To answer your question however, you could determine that this machine is a standard tub by counting the perforations in the tub, vertically. There should be a row of seven holes, followed by a row of six, then seven, then six, etc. The big tubs until 1981 had more than a dozen perfs, but I don't know the exact number (I'll count when I get back home, lol). The bottom of the tub on a standard capacity machine has a continuous row of perfs in a circle. The large and jumbo machines have three clusters of perfs followed by three solid zones. That may be the simplest way to look. Once you get to know the agitators that go with (there was only the Roto-Swirl and WP's Surgilator that made the transition to both capacities) telling the sizes apart becomes almost instantaneous. On the five tub sizes I mentioned, they were: 1) 24-inch regular capacity. This is the smallest tub and seems to never have changed, early 60s to 1983. These are narrower and about 1-inch shallower than a standard tub. 2) 29-inch standard capacity. This is the tub that in the 50s had the four rows of perfs in the bottom, then was changed to have two by the early 60s. The tub was unchanged visually exept for the top rim thru 1980. 3) 29-inch standard capacity, post 1981. A change was made affecting standard capacity machines and their jumbo counterparts mid-1981, which allowed both machines to use a common baseplate, simply with longer or shorter suspension rods. To accomodate this the outer and inner tubs of both had to be slightly redesigned. The standard tub retained its original height, but became about 5/8 of an inch wider, and the bottom tub perfs were arranged in groups of three, just like the older large tubs. I have never seen one of these in a residential Kenmore machine, as Kenmore abandoned the stardard capacity belt-drive at this point in favor of increased emphasis on the 24-inch machine to bolster activity later on the new 24-inch DD. Whirlpool however sold a number of these up through the end of the belt-drive. Kenmore did however sell these in the commercial machines. 4) 29-Inch "Jumbo" machines - these debuted in the mid to late 60s as a select sideline model or two for both Kenmore and Whirlpool. The first few years had super-tall centerposts, and the agitator experiments were ongoing during this time including a massive Kenmore straight-vane, a black bakelite WP Surgilator, and a later Kenmore mega Roto-Swirl (I would LOVE to find one of those). The Jumbo machines later settled into a good groove when they were marginally redesigned in 1974 to use the standard capacity agitator shaft and the then new Penta agitators. Tub dimensions were unchaged as best I can tell. 5) 29-inch large capacity 1981 and later machines. These have the standard capacity perf pattern in common with the '81 and later standard tub. WP must have used a common punch die for both tubs. They have the seven / six perf pattern but a significant area above the perfs of solid wall. This tub is 3/4 of an inch shallower than the previous Jumbo and 5/8 of an inch narrower. That may not seem like much, but it's noticeable when comparing two side by side. This is probably the most common tub seen today in remaining active belt drives, since they were produced in huge numbers and were the last made. There was a significant recession in 1981-1983, so when the economy rebounded, many people who had put-off appliance purchases bought the large belt drives in huge numbers. From what I remember the plant in Clyde, Ohio operated on overtime for a number of months to accomodate orders from WP and Kenmore. The cool part about belt-drives, at least IMHO, is that through these changes, they retained their sounds, their idiosyncrasies, their parts commonality (motors, pumps, timers, transmissions, etc.) and what I think is their charm. There are even a few parts that originated in belt drives that are used in the DDs to this day. Sorry for the dissertation Jed! Gordon

Post# 318413 , Reply# 11 12/6/2008 at 07:52 (5,612 days old) by stainfighter (Columbia, SC)
Checkrate/Likes *re: dissertation (LOL)* Gordon - LOVE your dissertations, you are one of our Resident Historians! 'Dr. Kenmore64' LOL Robert

Post# 318285 , Reply# 9 12/5/2008 at 14:04 (5,612 days old) by tuthill ()
Checkrate/Likes *Just awesome!* Fascinating!

Post# 318346 , Reply# 10 12/5/2008 at 17:47 (5,612 days old) by appnut (TX)
Checkrate/Likes Gordon you're awesome!!!