Thread Number: 21158
240 Plug Doesn't Match Outlet 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 334286   3/8/2009 at 12:31 (5,521 days old) by tuxedopoodle ()        

Hi. I moved an Asko 10505 from an apartment to a house in a rural area, thinking I'd save money, compared to buying a new washer, and save water, since the house is on a well. I thought the washer was 110, but a paper taped to the side said it was 240. The plug is three-pronged, with a round center prong and the other two prongs are at opposite angles to one another (one hoizontal and the other vertical, more or less). I thought I had all bases covered since I had a choice of a 110 outlet or the old 240 outlet for an old dryer I had removed. Well, nothing ever going smoothly, the available 240 outlet has a different configuration from the Asko plug. It has a center round hole and three additional holes. The top two are at angles kind of parallel to the edge of the round outlet and the third at the bottom of the round outlet is L-shaped (upside down).

What would my best, easiest and cheapest solution be? Change the plug on the machine (long out of warranty, so that's not a consideration) or change the outlet? If I change the plug, can I do this myself and what would I need? Or, is there an adapter plug available, to change the outlet prong configuration (like the common two prong to three prong type)? Or should I change to 110?

I don't do much laundry at this location, so super hot water or large capacity aren't issues.

Thank you so much for any help you can give me. This "cheap" solution is turning out to be a tad pricey, with cost of move and now this unexpected mismatch!!




Post# 334305 , Reply# 1   3/8/2009 at 15:34 (5,521 days old) by retro-man (- boston,ma)        

Are you sure it is 240V? Wish you could post a picture of the plug. What it sounds like to me is that you have a 120v plug but it is a 20amp plug, that has to be plugged into a 20amp outlet. This plug will not fit into a standard 15amp outlet. My hottub has this type of plug on it. It requires a 20amp service with a 20amp outlet. You will notice on the 2 different outlets; a 15 amp outlet will have the holes directly up and down, a 20 amp outlet has the the holes up and down but the one on the left will have a sideways hole also to accomodate that type of plug. If this is the case you cannot replace the 15 amp outlet with a 20 amp outlet because you will be overloading the wiring and the circuit. If you could post a pic of the plug that would help alot. Hope this helps.
Jon

Post# 334311 , Reply# 2   3/8/2009 at 16:28 (5,521 days old) by tuxedopoodle ()        

Thank you, Jon. This may not be all bad. I took a photo, then realized I don't have the cord to download into my computer. If I look directly at the plug--at the side with the prongs--there are two ordinary looking flat prongs above one round prong that is centered between the other two. The flat prong on the right is up and down, like a normal plug. The one on the left is sideways--exactly perpendicular to the one on the right. Both have a small hole in the center towards the tip, like a regular prong.

I looked at the circuit breaker box. I have a circuit I marked as the washer receptable, sometime in the past. It is marked as a 20 amp breaker--not a 15, like many of the others.

So, would this mean that the circuit is probably okay and I need a receptable with the correct configuration for the prongs?

If this isn't enough information, I will post the photo as soon as I rejoin my camera cable.

I really, really appreciate your help!

Helen

Post# 334340 , Reply# 3   3/8/2009 at 17:30 (5,521 days old) by goatfarmer (South Bend, home of Champions)        

goatfarmer's profile picture
It sounds like you have a 220V outlet in your house, but it's a newer style.They use 4 "prongs".

Post# 334376 , Reply# 4   3/8/2009 at 20:32 (5,521 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Could Be Wrong

 launderess's profile picture
But Asko never sold a 120v washing machine in the United States. All front loaders are 220v only.

Google "Leviton" or "electrical supply" to find a listing of 220v plugs and outlets. From those diagrams/photos you can match up what you've got.

L.

Post# 334395 , Reply# 5   3/8/2009 at 21:07 (5,521 days old) by toggleswitch2 ()        

Hi Helen! *WAVES* !

20a 220v outlets in this country (and yes North America) are very much physically smaller than standard USA 30a 220v dryer outlet (whether the 3-prong or the 4-prong newer type) and have different prong/blade and pin configurations.

Here is a 20a 220v outlet. You will note that it fits both a 15a and 20a plug, (hence the "T" shape of one of the holes....BUT ONLY 220V ones.

If I am visualizing this correctly this is what your plug (male) looks like. Let me know and we can discuss further....
I this wht your outlet looks like?

Post# 334397 , Reply# 6   3/8/2009 at 21:09 (5,521 days old) by toggleswitch2 ()        

ooopsie a linke helps!

CLICK HERE TO GO TO toggleswitch2's LINK
Post# 334398 , Reply# 7   3/8/2009 at 21:10 (5,521 days old) by toggleswitch2 ()        

Here is a 20a 110v outlet.

Which do you have, either of these?

CLICK HERE TO GO TO toggleswitch2's LINK
Post# 334399 , Reply# 8   3/8/2009 at 21:13 (5,521 days old) by toggleswitch2 ()        

Let us know and we'll continue from that point.

And rather than believe what a piece of paper may say, what does the nameplate or specs plate on the machine itself say?

Post# 334459 , Reply# 9   3/9/2009 at 09:33 (5,521 days old) by tuxedopoodle ()        

Togglesmith, thank you so much. I should have thought to look at the plate already. Here is what it says:

M (in a circle) 240 W P (in a circle) 35 W 1000 rpm 10-100N/cm2

It also says WM 90A 60h2 1960 w 2200w 10A UL listed 4P85

They plug looks as though it would easily fit into either of the photos from Leviton. The plug has PM 45 and Made in Canada stamped on the plastic part.

I have both a 220 (30 amp) outlet and a 110 (20 amp) outlet within reach.

I hope maybe this information will provide the answer??

Sorry if I'm dense--trying to do as much as possible myself, since there's plenty of stuff I can't do and need to pay others for. So your board is wonderful and I really appreciate your help!

Helen

Post# 334460 , Reply# 10   3/9/2009 at 09:36 (5,521 days old) by tuxedopoodle ()        

PS To answer your exact question, neither of my outlets looks like the photos. The 110/20amp outlet is a regular outlet, just like ones for a lamp. The 220/30 amp is the four prong, really big kind.

Post# 334554 , Reply# 11   3/9/2009 at 16:59 (5,520 days old) by toggleswitch2 ()        

~The plug looks as though it would easily fit into either of the photos from Leviton.

Thanks for the feed-back. But, it can't fit both, though.
One is a 110v outlet and the other is a 220v outlet. Never the twain shall meet.

So pay attention, please, :-) to the prong on the right as you'd be plugging in your machine. The direction of that prong tells a a story. Up and down it's 110v; left and right it's 220v.


Now I have seen A PROFESSIONAL ELECTRICIAN install a U.S. dryer plug on such a 220v European ("boil") washer. Safest is to re-fuse the line with a 20a fuse circuit-breaker (two actually are required for U.S. 220V). Don't knowif this was done. Using it on the existing 30a fuse/circuit breakers is not dangerous, per se. But there are better alternatives, as just noted.

ONCE IT HAS BEEN DETERMINED THAT THE MACHINE IS DEFINITELY 220v, and you want to instlall a dryer plug on it:

FIND and buy the male mate to your female exisitng outlet (*NO JOKES OR SMACK! LOL*)

You will need to use the U.S. colors (on the male plug) BLACK, RED (often noted as L1 and L2-- they are in this case interchangable) and the GREEN (or green/yellow) which is the ground. You will NOT be using the White/neutal prong/pin. (sometimes designated "N").


In the old days 220v leads (wire colors) were Black and Red in the UK, and blue and brown in the rest of Europe. (BL)ack = (BL)ue and therefore the Red = Brown.

So if your line cord (once you cut the male plug off) has black and red, just place them on the screws of the black and red U.S. plug and the green to the green and you are good to go..... THIS ASSUMES YOU ARE SURE THAT THE MACHINE IS DESIGNED FOR 220v. I must stress that. If your machiens line-cord has blue and brown wires, just put the blue wire to the black screw-terminal and the brown one to the red one.


IF THE MACHINE IS INDEED 220V.....

STTED DIFFERENTLY: Put the green ground to the ground pin of the US (MALE) PLUG. Put the other two wires to any of the two remainig PIN/PRONGS EXCEPT THE ONE INTENDED FOR THE WHITE ONE on the U.S.(male) PLUG.

FOR YOUR SAFETY

Be 1,000% sure this is a 220v machiine.
IF SO--- YOU SILL NOT BE CONNECTING ANY WIRE TO A WHITE/NEUTRAL PIN/PRONG (or the machine will be getting 110v).


NOTE: FOR SAFETY one may NOT change a 30a receptacle (large, dryer receptacle, say, to a 20a receptacle (smaller also physically) UNLESS the line is re-fused (and that means circuit-breakers or fuses, either/or) to 20a circuit-breakers or fuses.

Feel free to wrie to me via this forum or in a private e-mail if I may be of assistance.


Good luck!







Post# 334556 , Reply# 12   3/9/2009 at 17:00 (5,520 days old) by toggleswitch2 ()        

LOL I have a nice new nick-name. THANKS FOR THAT.
(No sarcasm intended)!


:-P

Post# 334558 , Reply# 13   3/9/2009 at 17:14 (5,520 days old) by toggleswitch2 ()        
Sir, Yes Sir!

If the washer has a white and a black wire in its (flex)cord STOP!!!

Do not pass "GO" do not collect $200.

This most likely indicates a 110v (North American) voltage machine.

We shall speak again......

Post# 334693 , Reply# 14   3/10/2009 at 10:46 (5,519 days old) by tuxedopoodle ()        

Wow. Lots of good info!

I have now checked the manual (perhaps a little late on that obvious step) and the machine is okay to be supplied by 208-240v. So that answer is final.

That leaves the question of changing the plug myself--the cheapest solution--versus having the expensive electrician who may not even come (interesting area I live in...), change the receptacle. The latter is less desirable because someone else might want to use an American dryer in the future.

So....I would be able to follow your great instructions on changing the plug from the existing European/three prong/20 amp to the American four prong. You said that you've seen a pro do this. But I'm assuming it's straightforward (I've rewired lamps and rewired pump timers, by way of a "resume"). The thing I want to be sure about is the 30 amp versus 20 amp. You state that it's not dangerous, and that's the most important thing. Is the additional amperage going to affect the machine? (I almost always have the circuit breakers off when I'm not at the house, just for safety, if that makes a difference).

Sorry to go on and on. You've been a big help. I hope the answer is that I should be able to do this myself, plug into the American female four prong outlet, and move on to the next household problem!

Thank you again!

Post# 334694 , Reply# 15   3/10/2009 at 10:54 (5,519 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

sudsmaster's profile picture
Suggest you go to your local Home Depot or Lowe's and peruse the plugs/outlets to get an idea of which is meant for 220 and which is meant for 110.

220v 20 amp plugs/outlets are about the same size as a grounded 110v 15 20 amp plug/outlet, but the prongs are like mirror images. The type you have sounds like it has the flat prongs at right angles to each other. Because there are only three prongs, what you have is an ungrounded 220 volt plug. The two flat prongs each carry 110v that share 220v between them. The round prong is the neutral.

The outlet on your wall is most likely a standard North American 30 amp 220v grounded outlet.

One solution for you would be to get a splitter box that plugs directly into your wall outlet, with 15 or 20 amp 220v outlets on it that accept your machine plug. (the other outlet could be for a euro electric dryer). Alternatively, you could have someone qualified take apart the cord to the washer and find out if it has three or four wires. If four wires, you could rewire the cord to accept a four prong plug that could plug directly into your wall outlet, but it would be a good idea at that point to change the circuit breaker to 20 amps.

Post# 334696 , Reply# 16   3/10/2009 at 10:56 (5,519 days old) by tuxedopoodle ()        

Oops. Forgot to provide this info. The manual says that the plug supplied with the machine is "intended for connection to a single-phase supply. The supply must be earthed."

(I have no idea what this means.)

Post# 334702 , Reply# 17   3/10/2009 at 11:04 (5,519 days old) by tuxedopoodle ()        

Sudsmaster, yes, my plug is as you describe--three prongs, two at angles to one another and definitely for 220 (it was plugged into a three prong receptacle that I have now had a chance to look at, back at the apt). If I understand your suggestion correctly, I can get a new "receptacle plug" (splitter) to plug into the US 220/30 amp four prong existing receptacle. It would have on it at least one outlet that would be the three prong/220 European type, and I could just plug my existing machine's plug into that and be ready to roll.

If I have that right, that sounds like the way to go. I hope so--thank you again for all the help.

Post# 334735 , Reply# 18   3/10/2009 at 14:24 (5,519 days old) by toggleswitch2 ()        
I hate to be difficult.. however....

 With the 220v outlets I have shown in the above links, there are two hots and a ground, IIRC there is no neutral. These are typically used for air-condtioners which DO NOT HAVE ANY 110V components and therefore do not need a neutral.

Stoves and dryers DO HAVE 110v and 220V components so in addtions to two hots (black and red) they need a neutral (white). In the old style outlets in the USA for these appliances (*but not allowed in Canada*) the neutral and the ground ("earth") ran through one conductor through the cord and back to to the receptacles. These will have a bonding strap tying the frame of the machine to the neutral/ground conductors. [NOT USED WHEN CORD AND RECEPTACLES HAVE FOUR HOLE/CONDUCTORS)


Likewise your washer would not need or have a neutral for our version of 220v (i.e. in North America).


Doing what I suggested will give you one-phase power and earthing.

Post# 335129 , Reply# 19   3/12/2009 at 15:08 (5,517 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

sudsmaster's profile picture
One could easily determine if the round prong is setup for ground or neutral by looking at the color of the wire.

White: neutral

Green: ground

My Miele washers are wired up with two hots and a neutral. Although Miele insists that grounding is mandatory, this is the way that all of them (and I have four) have been wired to run before I got them. In each case the ground wire has been left unconnected.

I've also seen Asko washers here in the USA with the three prong plugs - but I didn't open any of them up to see if the round prong was connected to a white or a green wire.

Obviously doing both a proper neutral and a proper ground would be a good idea. But the Mieles seem to run just fine with just two hots and a neutral. The ground is there obviously for safety - just in case there's a short or some other failure in the washer that could energize the chassis/outer cabinet/door metal.

Since you have a four prong dryer outlet... it probably would be a good idea to put a four prong plug on the washer, either to plug directly into the wall outlet (big plug) or into a protected 20 amp four hole outlet on a splitter box. Again, to meet code the circuit breaker probably should be changed to 20 amps 220 volts. Your mileage may vary.

Post# 335135 , Reply# 20   3/12/2009 at 15:45 (5,517 days old) by toggleswitch2 ()        

Again true 220v machines in their homeland get 220v from a hot and a neutral.

When used in this country, by necessity, they are connected to two hots. They have NO NEED for a neutral.

Grounding/earthing is nearly always a good thing except in the case of a traditional toaster with two open slots and exposed heating elements on top. You know some fool will take a knife and short to the grounded applance frame. But I digress. {That is not my opinion, I read it somewhere offical-like}.

Let us not forget that a netural carries ccurrent just like a hot, but the potential (voltage) to earth is (hopefully and theoreticaly and designed to be) zero rather than 110v to 240v).

In our country the neutral and ground are conencted to each-other in various places. BOth functions quite nicely as the other. :-)


Go back and look at my 220v Leviton brand outlet. The colors of the wires are red and black (hots) and green, ground.

Post# 337758 , Reply# 21   3/26/2009 at 01:16 (5,504 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

sudsmaster's profile picture
Two hots and a neutral are needed if there are any 110 volt components on the machine.

I'm not convinced that all European washers rewired for US voltages don't have any 110volt internals. And, if they don't, then why do they come with four wires: two hots, a neutral, and a ground?

Post# 338340 , Reply# 22   3/28/2009 at 11:25 (5,501 days old) by tuxedopoodle ()        
Meanwhile...

 Okay. I took a photo of the receptacle and took it to the store where all the electricians buy their supplies. I also cut off the three prong plug. The store took one look at the photo and sold me a Cooper plug with only THREE prongs, one of which is the L-shape, compatible with the outlet. It's called a Universal Angle Plug and has a number 30A-125/250V with L blade.

So, the wiring attached to the Asko has three colors: green, black and white. Having researched this, I am understanding that the green is the ground and both the black and white are hot. (The machine plate is marked to show it's a 240.)

Now, the plug has the L-shape prong marked with a "W". The instructions are for US colors and show the neutral to be the white wire and to be attached to the L-shape prong. They show Black and Red to be attached to the others.

This appears to leave me with the wrong plug. There appears to be no place for the Green ground.

Does it appear they sold me the wrong plug? What seems to be missing is a round prong in the middle. Please realize that I know absolutely nothing and don't even know if the round hole in my receptacle is supposed to receive a round prong. If so, then they evidently sold me the wrong plug.

Togglesmith--can you believe this is still unresolved!! I'm leaving the house today and the supply house is closed today anyway. But I'll need to follow up shortly, so any further advice is most helpful. (Togglesmith's original advice would work if the plug they sold me had four prongs, but it doesn't.)

Thank you all again!

Helen

Post# 338731 , Reply# 23   3/30/2009 at 06:52 (5,500 days old) by toggleswitch2 ()        

I'd say safest is to post pics of the:


1- Power supply outlet (female) on garage wall.
2- Original plug (male)on washer.
3- New plug (male) that you were sold.

Helen, I think you are on the right track. If the dryer outlet that is your power source (outlet;female) has 4 ports/holes-- obviously you will meed a plug (male) of the same configuration, not the three conductor/prong one you were sold.

Odd (to me) that a 220v machine has a power(flex) cord with black and white conductors.

Good luck Helen. Got your e-mail. Will respond.

Again, would you be so kind as to post pics of your three plugs/outlets. Just click on "browse" and find them in your computer. This site sizes them automatically even if they appear too big after previeiwng.

Post# 339037 , Reply# 24   3/31/2009 at 11:28 (5,498 days old) by tuxedopoodle ()        
Photos

 Hi Steve. I will try to upload three photos--two of the existing receptacle and one of the plug that was on the Asko (that I have now cut off which revealed the black, white and green wires).

I didn't make a photo of the plug they sold me, but it's as I described above.

Thank you again so much. Almost there?!

Post# 339038 , Reply# 25   3/31/2009 at 11:31 (5,498 days old) by tuxedopoodle ()        
Photo 2

 receptacle (I hope this is working)

Post# 339039 , Reply# 26   3/31/2009 at 11:37 (5,498 days old) by tuxedopoodle ()        
Photo 3

 just in case the receptable wasn't clear (the outlet is on a proper wall, which got sheetrocked off from the closet, so we had to cut through for access--it may not be as funky as it looks--it is affixed to the wall)

Post# 339040 , Reply# 27   3/31/2009 at 11:45 (5,498 days old) by toggleswitch2 ()        
Did you say the male plug you were sold fits the outlet /fem

 The black and brass male shown is 220v. The horizonetal blade is on the right as we are plugging it in.

The brown dryer outlet shown appears to be one that takes three prongs- the center hole is actually to accomodate a screw that holds the cover over the base of the outlet.

So green to ground ("L" shape) and black and white to the other two. "L" Will be marked "ground" or "neutral" in outlet. Other two should be marked L1 & L2 (line 1....)

Post# 339116 , Reply# 28   3/31/2009 at 16:47 (5,498 days old) by tuxedopoodle ()        

While I didn't yet plug the new male plug into the old female receptacle because of the awkward location but it definitely lines up (I was afraid I might drop the plug into the sheetrocked in space and never be able to retrieve it, without it being attached to a cord, but didn't get to tying it to a string). There are no markings on the prongs, except for the L-shaped one, which I think was a "W" (I don't have it with me). The instructions clearly showed that a white neutral wire in the usual black-red-white configuration would be attached to that L-shaped prong.

There was no indication that it was okay/safe to put a green ground there, so I hesitated. But I think you are telling me to put the green ground there, attach the other two hot wires to the two other prongs--and then, hopefully, get a life!! (do some wash, too).

If I don't hear back, I'll assume we've got it. I really appreciate your help and Togglesmith gets the award for most persistence, patience and Good Samaritanism!

Helen

Post# 339159 , Reply# 29   3/31/2009 at 21:50 (5,498 days old) by toggleswitch2 ()        

~But I think you are telling me to put the green ground there
(Yes to the "L" shaped prong)

~attach the other two hot wires to the two other prongs.

BINGO!

as we are all reassured it is definitely a 220v machine!

Post# 339571 , Reply# 30   4/2/2009 at 15:55 (5,496 days old) by retro-man (- boston,ma)        
Hey tux and tog

 Not to throw water on the fire but would not have it been easier to replace the receptacle than the plug? I have a 220V built in a/c unit that has the same configuration as the plug that was cut off. Those outlets are readily available. I just had this installed 2 years ago.
Jon

Post# 339598 , Reply# 31   4/2/2009 at 21:40 (5,496 days old) by toggleswitch2 ()        

Six of one and half-a-dozen of the other.
Depends also on skill level of the person doing the work.

Putting a 20a outlet on a line fused with circuit-breakers designed for 30a is not allowed...requires re-protecting the line with 20a breakers.

In this way, (changing the plug), the machine can work in any location that has a standard North American dryer outlet. Also probably not a bad thing to have a washing machine with a plug that fits outlets most often found in...drum rool please... a laundry room.

Likewise, the integrity of the home's electrical system is not compromised by someone who is not fully skilled or knowledgable in this area.

Besides. Much less expesnive than hiring-in some help.

Post# 347359 , Reply# 32   5/7/2009 at 21:39 (5,461 days old) by tuxedopoodle ()        

Hi, Togglesmith/Steve. I've gotten as far as stripping the wires and will screw them into the new plug tomorrow and give it a try (been sidetracked with plumbing repair projects, fixing mistakes made by a tilesetter, a carpenter, etc!) Your approach is definitely less expensive than bringing in an electrician in a somewhat rural area where help is, surprisingly, expensive. And since something breaks every week, I'm teaching myself a lot. Thank you for your help! I'll give an update tomorrow, but the American plug approach is working so far!

Post# 347389 , Reply# 33   5/7/2009 at 23:10 (5,461 days old) by frapdoodle ()        

Well You See With Most Imported Machines You Need A Power Converter. The U.S. Uses A Different Electric System Them Other Countries


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