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Thread Number: 22207
omg who is next!!! |
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| Post# 347883 , Reply# 1 5/10/2009 at 20:54 (5,457 days old) by qsd-dan (West) | ||
My advice is to find and use a vintage top loader. Unfortunately, I see top loaders quickly disappearing out of existence in the VERY near future due to strict government regulations. This is the reason why I have 6 vintage Maytags in my living room, one on the side yard, and one in the laundry room as a daily driver coupled with 5 bins of parts that I have buying and hoarding for the past 3 years. Lots of machines/parts to swap around when parts become NLA.
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Post# 347891 , Reply# 2 5/10/2009 at 21:14 (5,456 days old) by launderess  (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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There is a reason top loading washing machines with central beaters are so rare in Europe, with energy and water costs it just isn't possible to have such a thing that would do the job properly. Without ample water, top loading washers with central beaters are doing just that to laundry, beating it to death. With USA federal and in some cases local energy and water restrictions forcing less and less water use for washing machines, there really isn't anyway to left to go. L. | ||
| Post# 347894 , Reply# 3 5/10/2009 at 21:21 (5,456 days old) by toploader1984 () | ||
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my point is... the average person cant afford to pay 900 dollars or MORE JUST for a washer and another 800 for a dryer EVERY 5 YEARS!! LG GE frigidaire and whirlpool front loaders all last 5 years or less on average. | ||
| Post# 347896 , Reply# 5 5/10/2009 at 21:33 (5,456 days old) by qsd-dan (West) | ||
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"my point is... the average person cant afford to pay 900 dollars or MORE JUST for a washer and another 800 for a dryer EVERY 5 YEARS!! LG GE frigidaire and whirlpool front loaders all last 5 years or less on average." Hell, even most top loaders aren't getting 5 years without a major repair or replacement. Here's a response from a Maytag video on youtube: "Our 9 month old high-dollar Maytag washer (Whirltag) started leaking all over! Even into the electronics!! Very dangerous!!!! We called them E-mailed them and they honestly could have cared less!!!! No kidding!!! Even said,,, WE WOULD HAVE TO PAY FOR SERVICE CALL!! DO NOT BUY ANY MAYTAG OR WHIRLPOOL products They have gone way down hill since 2006!!!! We sold a new $700 washer at our yard sale as-is for $25!!! That sucked!!!!!!!!" CLICK HERE TO GO TO qsd-dan's LINK | ||
| Post# 347898 , Reply# 6 5/10/2009 at 21:41 (5,456 days old) by toploader1984 () | ||
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speed queen is the ONLY company that is all about customer satisfaction and putting out a quality product, 3 year parts AND labor warranty, and one of the only company still making a top loader, which i am getting within the next year. | ||
| Post# 347900 , Reply# 7 5/10/2009 at 21:53 (5,456 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY) | ||
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| Post# 347909 , Reply# 8 5/10/2009 at 22:28 (5,456 days old) by mayguy (Minnesota) | ||
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Will be hard to say who's next. I have the GE front loader, and that was only $400, and it paid for itself already. In a year, we've save 12,000 gallons of water, $30 a month on gas, and $15 in electric. True, nothing is built like they used to be, but what can we do? People want's "cheap"! | ||
| Post# 347928 , Reply# 10 5/10/2009 at 23:44 (5,456 days old) by toploader1984 () | ||
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maybe in other countries water is restricted but c mon folks, our planet is made up of 95 percent water?? i think, we should NOT be worried about it, why dont we just clean our clothes with air??? there is alwas dry clean, pumping them full of chemichles. | ||
| Post# 347943 , Reply# 12 5/11/2009 at 00:43 (5,456 days old) by redcarpetdrew (Fairfield, CA) | ||
The handwriting's on the wall... | ||
| Post# 348095 , Reply# 13 5/11/2009 at 14:20 (5,456 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY) | ||
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Yes, the public wants "cheap", but those who want to pay the extra money for high end appliances and longevity and not getting longevity! Even the most expensive appliances don't seem to last. I can understand something low end or cheaper not lasting as long, but the high end appliances have JUST as many problems as the low end. My 1200 dollar Duet has a lot of plastic in it, like the detergent dispenser is all plastic. I'm sure if it were dropped it would be ruined.
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| Post# 348099 , Reply# 14 5/11/2009 at 14:37 (5,456 days old) by laundromat (Hilo, Hawaii) | ||
5 years????
I had my LG combination 24 inch unit for 7 years before I sold it to my neighbor friend who is still using it.My LG set was 2 years old when I got it at a flea market and was sold to a church lady I know who still loves it and has had no issues.I had my Frigidaires for 6 years and the GE's, made by FRIGIDAIRE,for 3 before selling/trading up to a K'aid f/l set.The k'aids are still being used by another neighbor who gave me $1499 for the set.She has 6 children and uses them daily. So,where does this 5 year life span originate????
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| Post# 348102 , Reply# 15 5/11/2009 at 14:43 (5,456 days old) by laundromat (Hilo, Hawaii) | ||
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If you go to Sears,Lowes,Home Depot,Best Buy or any local dealers and stay back watching the salespeople and customers who are in the market for a new washer,the sales people are actualy promoting the front loading units 10 to 1 over all top loaders including the GE Harmonies and Whirlpool's Cabrio. i am surprised to see that LG hasn't introduced their top loaders here.
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| Post# 348107 , Reply# 16 5/11/2009 at 15:14 (5,456 days old) by toggleswitch2 () | ||
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Once the novelty wears off (in this country) and EVERYONE has changed over to front-loaders, the prices will fall-- as they do for all products that have peaked and reached their maturity. | ||
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Post# 348120 , Reply# 19 5/11/2009 at 16:41 (5,456 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Vintage machines aren't necessarily any more reliable than "modern" units. The 1962 Whirly I grew up with had many repairs in its 15 years -- pump, belt, water valve, wig wag, lid switch, bearings replaced, even the bakelite agitator broke. Others have mentioned the same in regards to machines in their families. The 1976 Whirly that replaced it ran for 18 years (yes, with some repairs along the way) until the bearings wore out. The KA my parents have now that came along in 1994 will soon be 15 years. The difference "then" vs. "now" is that people then were more apt to have an appliance repaired instead of tossing it out. Nowadays, a 5-year-old Whirly suffers a broken drive coupler, it'll be tossed out and the homeowner complains that the machine is junk ... over a $20 part. I have a 10-year-old Kenmore in my garage that a friend was going to trash. They washed a large rug, the coupler broke. They thought it was bearings gone bad due to the noise involved when the broken coupler runs. There's more to water and energy conservation than just one's personal bills. With the world's population continually growing, more utility infrastructure is needed. More water treatment and sewer facilities, more power generation. That costs *everyone* in taxes and utility bills for municipal watersewer and power plants. | ||
| Post# 348121 , Reply# 20 5/11/2009 at 17:04 (5,456 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia) | ||
Try living here...
....where the first hour of labour is nearly $200 by the time you include the 'call out' fee. Plus parts. You can buy an Electrolux group European style 16lb front load machine here for about USD$500 odd. Given the price of repairs, I don't know if I would be bothered to get something repaired even once.... As for the water issue....Well most Australians have a different opinion to most Americans in that while we would like to use more, we accept that we should not. Our government has not legislated (yet) that we can't buy water guzzling appliances, but has rather made it cheaper with rebates to buy water saving appliances. That and constant advertising about being 'water wise' seems to have worked. To give you another idea, on the main 'highway' from where I live to where I work there is a flashing sign that tells everyone how much water the city has used in the last 24hrs compared to our daily target and our current storage level.... It effectively guilts you into wanting to use less. ...and the carrot (financially and being able to say to people 'we care') is much better than the stick. | ||
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Post# 348186 , Reply# 21 5/11/2009 at 20:07 (5,456 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Keith, we are all entitled to our opinions, however yo9u are still a relatively young man and there is some validity to your statements, but some are also knee-jerk reactions flying off the cuff. I've been around over double your years and I have observed in many parts of the country, MOST who do laundry really don't care all that much. I've seen MANY over load their machines and even more, simply use their top load washers without ever adjusting water level switches for various size loads whether it be one piece of a larger load. I know several ladies who habityually underloaded their machines and use full waterr level regardless. THAT is wasteful. I am sure those here who work for appliance companies and have observed laundry habbits could also chime in. Not all parts of the country have abundant water supplies to meet future population growth needs. The SW part of the U.S. and much of California and they are not "crying wolf". Climate patterns have changed and will continue to change. Just two years ago, parts of Georgia, Alabama, and Tennessee were reaching the point where their local "water ponds" were almost completely dry and had only a few months of supply left. It is scarey.
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| Post# 348196 , Reply# 23 5/11/2009 at 20:27 (5,456 days old) by toploader1984 () | ||
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u cant compare the way other counties do laundry, i am sure in africa they do laundry in a stream on a big rock and pound clothes by hand, does that mean we r supposed to do the same? | ||
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Post# 348202 , Reply# 24 5/11/2009 at 20:46 (5,456 days old) by re563 (Fort Worth, Texas) |
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It's not just other countries toploader
Here in florida it has been so dry over the past two years that we are on water restrictions year around now. I do have a HE3 from kenmore--6yrs old this year. Not one problem yet (knock on wood). I have a Bosch dishwasher, 4 yrs old--no problems. The dishwasher uses 5 gals of water in the normal wash. My washer (god knows what it uses)uses much less than any toploader, yet, beacause of the housing market and foreclosures, the city keeps rasing water rates to meet demand and because of houses going vacant. So, with water rates rising, I can't afford to have a topload washer, not to mention that most will not do a spray rinse now in order to conserve water.
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| Post# 348248 , Reply# 26 5/11/2009 at 22:38 (5,455 days old) by peterh770 (Marietta, GA) | ||
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| Post# 348260 , Reply# 27 5/11/2009 at 23:43 (5,455 days old) by animasinsulinpu () | ||
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2 hour wash cycle??? OMG!!!! My WP Duet's normal cycle is only 40 min. And the Whitest White cycle is 1 hr. But with the WW cycle, I get 5 rinses. When I bought the washer I got a $100 rebate and $75 for the Bosch DW.....Bill in Az..... | ||
| Post# 348278 , Reply# 28 5/12/2009 at 02:21 (5,455 days old) by twinniefan (Sydney Australia) | ||
Cost of repairs
I agree with you Ronhic about the prohibitive costs of getting various items repaired in fact this is what happened to me just recently my brother has a small colour televison in his room it was damaged recently during a severe electrical storm, now the unit only cost $169.00 to start with, now I rang a couple of service places, thinking it might just be a 10- 20 dollar component burnt out. Well he we go, 1.callout fee-$120.00 2could not detect problem with first visit,needed to be taken to workshop, another $120.00,plus whatever cost replacement part is. You see $220.00 just to find the problem before actually doing anything to repair it,admittedly I took a chance and called the guy out hoping that it may indeed just be a small burnt out part, but it wasn't so I have to wear it. I since replaced it with a similar tv similar price, however I could have saved myself $120.00, just by tossing it out in the first place and just getting a new one straight away. I could have claimed it under my contents insurance,however my policy has a $500.00 excess,meaning I wear the first $500.00 of any claim anyway. | ||
| Post# 348347 , Reply# 35 5/12/2009 at 13:30 (5,455 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada) | ||
me i hope maytag will continue making top load washers right now i have a whirlpool duet and i realy don't like it the washe time is to long and second of all compare to topload the whirlpool duet is not water effeciant and me in my case i know that i will buy a top load washer for my next washer. Pierre Ps: i think that fridgedair will lose alot of money if they stop making topload washers. | ||
| Post# 348357 , Reply# 37 5/12/2009 at 13:47 (5,455 days old) by aquarius1984 (Planet earth) | ||
Taking it all for granted
Perhaps Toploader1984 would like (or not) to experience the psychological pain and physical pain of knowing he had no water to drink or wash or cook with yet others in this world were taking it for granted and wasting it willy nilly. Moaning like a child that something so trivial as using a washing machine is so important compared to potentially saving someones life.... yes it is literally like that! I can only imagine just how a child born into a third world country through no choice of his own feels when he cant get a cup of water to quench an ongoing thirst that never ends. I for one am all for washing with Low Levels especially as there is absolutely nothing wrong with todays machines and the water they use. Water levels have produced excellent jobs in machines where usage was 39l or lower on 5kg loads. Sadly we have gone back a step or 3 and now have machines using 60 litres for 6/7 kilos. Perhaps if detergent manufacturers spent more time into sorting out their formulas so that products rinsed better we could lower the consumption again and get back to a justifiable level of water consumption of our machines. We all should not take for granted the simple things that keep us alive and not aim to waste a single drop which would of been appreciated in everyway in another part of the world. None of us know what is exactly going to happen in the future either. Who knows what could happen and just because your water supply is plenty now should a disaster happen would you be wishing that you hadnt wasted a drop with hindsight? As I get older I realise just how appreciative someone can be of any old piece of tat when they dont have anything to start with and what exactly it means for them to have it. Yes I do use higher wash temperatures but then I am now keen to fill the machine and use it economically but then I dont boilwash for nothing. Because our machines use just the right amount of water to do a grand job I dont have to worry. Perhaps if the money saved by not using gallons of hot water in a TL was spent on transporting water to those who were needy many more children would get that drink to keep them alive. OK its an idealistic vision but remember it may be worth it so save just 1 life maybe???? Its all about social decorum in the circumstance. | ||
| Post# 348392 , Reply# 40 5/12/2009 at 15:10 (5,455 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada) | ||
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and if there is one thing i can add is topload washer are not energy consuming if clothes are washe in cold water and washing in cold water also means that the water heater do not have to heat the wash water before filling the machine the only time i use a hot wash its when i wash bedsheets most of the time i use warm water for white but mostly i wash using cold water.
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Post# 348396 , Reply# 41 5/12/2009 at 15:48 (5,455 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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Keith,
I've debated all evening whether to write this or not. Please take it in the friendly spirit it is offered. You are obviously in pain and trying to deal with several problems at once. When bending down to pick up a sock already hurts, pulling 30 pounds of wet wash out of a FL must be torment for hours. I agree, the time is coming when water usage will be limited considerably. It seems like politicians in the US are not very good at finding solutions which serve people instead of the other way around. Yes, I am a firm advocate of saving clean water. No, I don't think the stupid low-water toilets worked out very well and I really think forcing people to accept FLs is not the way to go. By the by, you don't have to use those gawd-awful pedestals. There are videos on the internet on how to build perfectly stable stands which raise the machines just as much but are cheap and easy to build. | ||
| Post# 348401 , Reply# 42 5/12/2009 at 16:09 (5,455 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada) | ||
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and in my opinion they should think of the older genaration i think of my grandmother who change her washer last summer the first time she change her washer she ad a vintage washer from when i was a child when she change it it was another vintage washer her first 1 was an inglis libatror a think it was a model before the pull to start push to stop era then it was an 1988 kenmore model and today she has dd whirlpool and from what i know and how her laundry room is desing a front loader would not even fit the laundry space so before i think that its important to have choices in model i know that in my case i tryed a front load and i don't like it very much so i know that when i chenge it i will buy a top load washer.
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| Post# 348403 , Reply# 43 5/12/2009 at 16:45 (5,455 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia) | ||
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There are ways...
...to encourage economy without preventing you from using something. I mentioned in another post about rebates so I'll repeat it here. If you want someone to buy something - make it cheaper to obtain. The local governements here generally (but not all) give rebates for water efficient appliances which make them cheaper in many cases that a water hungry appliance. If you want to reduce the consumption of a resource, make it more expensive. People will think about it if their electric bill, gas bill or water bill prices are going to rise...and I am thinking amounts that will make people stop and think, not a couple of cents per unit. So there you have a couple of options, no legislation to stop you and a choice in place if you want to.... A carrot to encourage lower consumption by way of rebates at time of purchase and.... ....a stick with higher utility prices if you want to keep using something that is a drain on available resources. | ||
| Post# 348438 , Reply# 44 5/12/2009 at 18:39 (5,455 days old) by gotwasher (minnesota) | ||
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Hi from gotwasher i see we have alot of debate over water if a big deal maybe we should go back to wringers that way we can reuse water. btw iam not beingsmart i drive mopar it dont mind a little gas thank you. | ||
| Post# 348653 , Reply# 51 5/13/2009 at 14:57 (5,454 days old) by qsd-dan (West) | ||
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So clothes are supposed to be clean after a 20-30 min wash i | ||
| Post# 348665 , Reply# 52 5/13/2009 at 15:46 (5,454 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada) | ||
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| Post# 348691 , Reply# 53 5/13/2009 at 17:05 (5,454 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia) | ||
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Why should Americans change?
Well as a free nation and a country with one of the largest and most energy hungry populations in the world, I would suggest that it's called 'leading by example'. The rest of us can do it, why can't Americans? It is all well and good to bleat about 'I am entitled to do what I want, when I want with what I want' in as many scenarios as you like, but when it all boils down to it, there are consequences in the future for what we do today such as long term water shortages and restrictions on usage which parts of America are already experiencing. You may well ask 'why is this my problem', well let me just enlighten you about what a couple of State Governments here have been discussing and which could happen in the USA. In Western Australia, the ACT (Canberra) and Queensland, there has been discussion about piping water from areas that have it to those that do not. Now you may well think 'how could this affect me?'. Well, if you live where water is quite plentiful and where a scheme like this could be put into action.....how about when other people start using 'your' water because they have little. - What pressure will it put on your supply? - What will it do to prices in your area? - How will you FEEL when others are using something that you have been able to use without consideration?' - What impact will that usage have on your own access to this resource that covers most of the planet yet we can't readily access? Now on another note. Clothes may well be clean after 10min in a top loader machine using lots and lots of nice clean drinking water. I would expect them to be as would any person on this forum. BUT, with a drop in water consumption comes a corresponding increase in cycle time. Most European machines have a quick wash facility for less that full loads that will cut the cycle time from around 2-2 1/2hrs to between 60-90min. A warm wash in my Westinghouse badged Italian made Electrolux goes from 1:57 to 1:08. I use that for 80% of my washing provided it isn't a 'full' load and it is perfect....if the load is 'full' and by that I mean when you are putting the last items in, the drum is moving back and forth, I don't select 'quick wash'. The next question is... 'How much washing do you put in your machine?' I ask as if you are not using the capacity but running high water levels it is very wastefull. As an example, a 6.5kg load which is 15lb (my capacity) is a lot of washing and equivalent to at least about 8 queen sized sheets and 8 pillow slips...Now I'd wash that on a long cycle. Time is relevant too.... Who cares if it takes 2hrs??? I don't hang around waiting for the washing to finish. I plan to do other things. Garden, vaccuum, relax, read, watch TV, start dinner and chat online...why does it matter if it takes 2hrs? It takes 5 minutes to get it in the machine and 10seconds to start it. It certainly doesn't take YOU 2hrs. While it is washing, it is YOUR time to do with what you will. Have a look at some of the old washing machine and dishwasher advertising that regularly pop up in pic of the day on here....they shouted from the rooftops that 'This machine will free up your time!' Sigh....I feel I'm beating my head with an agitator | ||
| Post# 348766 , Reply# 56 5/14/2009 at 03:20 (5,453 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia) | ||
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Since I don't do a lot of big loads, I couldn't just
NorfolkSouthern, I am unsure of what you mean by 'portable'. If you mean a 'twin tub', then I agree with you as, generally, you reuse the wash water. If you mean a mobile automatic, then I think you may be surprised. European made or sized (24" wide) front load automatics will generally adapt to how much washing you put in. The pressure sensor in it will judge how much washing you have in based on the cycle you select and its' absorbancy of the water. If you wash a full load on a normal cycle it will use more water than if you wash 2/3 or half of the capacity on the same cycle. Top range machines in Mieles' (and others) ranges also tend to have turbidity sensors which detect how much detergent is left in the rinse water and may or may not add a rinse to ensure the correct result. Basically, it they take the guess work out of 'how big a load'..... CLICK HERE TO GO TO ronhic's LINK | ||
| Post# 348775 , Reply# 59 5/14/2009 at 06:11 (5,453 days old) by twinniefan (Sydney Australia) | ||
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Water in Australia
Washerfan, Well then you are in the fortunate postion of where you live not having a problem with water supply, here in the driest continent on Earth there have and still are problems with water supply,I understand the state of South Australia is still in dire straits with it's water supply, it's main source being the Murray river is basically dying and if something is not done soon the consequences could be incalculable. Queensland's capital city, Brisbane earlier this year was down to only about 16% dam capacity, they have had quite a bit of rainfall recently which has helped,my capital of Sydney was down the 30% water until heavy rain also helped us,the city of Goulburn, not far from Canberrra,last year was in such a terrible predicament that the population were only able to use 2-3 buckets of water per day for everything,as it's dam was nearly empty. You say you would pay to see a wash-in with a row of top loaders washing hardly anything full of water just to see the foreigners running around like chicken littles, well then how would you justify that to a family who are bathing their kids in 2 plastic buckets of water. By the way why does it matter if the washing isn't done in 10 minutes flat, as Chris says don't you have other things to do besides waiting for your washer to finsh? if speed in washing is so important, consider getting a twin-tub, they are faster than any other washer, you can actually save water by spinning wash water back into the washtub,which I do in mine. Cheers. | ||
| Post# 348794 , Reply# 63 5/14/2009 at 09:26 (5,453 days old) by magic clean () | ||
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Interesting story. See the link CLICK HERE TO GO TO magic clean's LINK | ||
| Post# 348815 , Reply# 66 5/14/2009 at 11:54 (5,453 days old) by sudsman () | ||
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If commerical Laundry took over a hour to do a load of linen We would NEVER get any where. No foumula need be more than 55 to 60 mins at the very most.. | ||
| Post# 348822 , Reply# 67 5/14/2009 at 12:32 (5,453 days old) by toploader1984 () | ||
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OMG THANK YOU SOOO MUCH WASHERFAN!! i couldn't have said it better myself!!!! amen. | ||
| Post# 348824 , Reply# 69 5/14/2009 at 12:43 (5,453 days old) by toploader1984 () | ||
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try washing dishes in cold water! i guarentee they wont come clean!!! | ||
| Post# 348830 , Reply# 71 5/14/2009 at 12:59 (5,453 days old) by dj-gabriele () | ||
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Thanks Matt, that's exactly what I was trying to point out in numbers | ||
| Post# 348890 , Reply# 76 5/14/2009 at 16:56 (5,453 days old) by kenb () | ||
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little pea brains Why is it that some people can't discuss something without resorting to insults? I see it time and time again... Why can't we just accept that the Europeans have different outlooks and customs without resorting to insults? | ||
| Post# 348893 , Reply# 77 5/14/2009 at 17:03 (5,453 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia) | ||
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Energy consumption
The Australian Governement legislated some years ago that ALL major appliances have energy rating labels affixed. This is based on the cycle the manufacturer chooses to have their machine tested for wash performance and includes the cost of water heated externally at a set rate should it be required such as with a top load machine. Maytag 6AMTW5555 = 805Kwhr - top load Maytag MAH7550AAW= 473KWhr - front load Both 8kg machines and both using a warm wash both on the cycle Maytag choose for wash performance testing....cycle time is irrelevant in this test. nuf said.... | ||
| Post# 348912 , Reply# 79 5/14/2009 at 18:25 (5,453 days old) by aquarius1984 (Planet earth) | ||
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Post# 348914 , Reply# 80 5/14/2009 at 18:35 (5,453 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Oh my, now that really is nitpicking. The "third" line is a graphic, possibly taken from the control panel of a WCI-58, such as the one animated on the page. Seems to me that lines 4 through 6 are more relevant to the intended spirit of the site: The website, cyber-library and discussion forum dedicated to automatic clothes Perhaps Robert should comment on this. | ||
| Post# 349000 , Reply# 85 5/14/2009 at 22:36 (5,452 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia) | ||
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The statistics have changed for Australia....
Here is and excerpt from the Australian Bureau of Statistics data of Jan 2008 on washing machine ownership (and appliances in general) with the link below. 'Almost all households in Australia had washing machines (97%) (table 5.3). The more energy efficient front loading washing machines were used by 22% of households. This proportion increased from 13% in 2005. The highest proportion of households with front loading washing machines were South Australia and the Australian Capital Territory (28%) (table 5.11). Since 1994, Australians have used their washing machines less frequently. In 1994, 62% of households in Australia averaged 5 washing machine loads or less per week, and this proportion has increased to 75% in 2008. In the same period, the number of households loading 6 or more loads per week decreased from 38% in 1994 to 25% in 2008 (table 5.12). The use of cold water in washing machines has been steadily increasing in Australian households, rising from 61% in 1994, to 74% in 2008 (table 5.13)' Whilst Rapunzel may not be 'spot on' with the stats, he is correct that the majority of people still have top load machines though this is changing rapidly. From the above statistics you can see that since 2005 there has been a 70% increase in the ownership of front load machines (13-22% average). That is a relatively large change in 3yrs. Additionally, I am in the ACT (Canberra) and we have the highest ownership in the country...possibly because we have been on water restrictions since 2004 (and this is WITHOUT any financial incentives). This is about choice. People may have a financial incentive, but they are also taking responcibility for their actions and what happens in the future with resource usage. I also think that some people may have missed what I have tried to say... - That we ALL have a responcibility to the environment via our consumption of water, power and waste (sewerage and disposability of appliance) - That either way cleans (top or front) - That TIME taken by a machine to perform a function is irrelevant (it GIVES us time regardless) - That governments have differing ways of influencing behaviours (I prefer ours to the USA...at this point in time, we still have a choice when buying new, the choice for Americans is being restricted by legislation on manufacturing which does make me wonder how much choice you really have) - I (and most Australians and MANY Americans) live with water restrictions - That we have consideration for the impact we cause not only today, but down the chain. - That this issue is bigger and more important than the effect on your back pocket (it isn't ALWAYS about how much you save by using less) Ultimately, the tide is turning on consumption. 'Because we can' is no longer a good or moral reason to use something long term. Everywhere you look there are people, manufacturers and elected officials trying to make us use less. Less petrol, less power, less water to create less waste and recycle more rather than send it to land fill. When it all boils down to it, I don't begrudge anyone using an appliance appropriately (you define it!) be it vintage or new. What I do begrudge is the 'don't give a toss' attitude that some people exhibit when responding to others and that includes deriding your elected officials. If people don't like what is happening in their oun country, they should lobby those responcible for making the changes. If you can't be bothered voting and having a say with your vote or writing a letter to a local member, then your criticism and moans fall on deaf ears no matter how valid they are. And finally, a particularly inspirational man once said 'Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country' We could all learn a lot from that..... CLICK HERE TO GO TO ronhic's LINK | ||
| Post# 349071 , Reply# 88 5/15/2009 at 01:17 (5,452 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia) | ||
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Rapunzel
You are correct. Most usage (and waste) comes from industry and it are the elected officals both State and Federal who have failed all of us over the past 30yrs by not investing enough in water infrastructure. ...then we have the other lobbys that prevent the infrastructure from being built because of sensitivity to environment, endangered species et.al. So the easiest short term solution is to change consumer usage with the carrot and stick approach which is what most State Governments are doing. Rebate for going efficient and stick with higher prices to discourage 'excessive' use. Now if we could just build dams where all the rain seems to fall these days, we would at least reduce one problem. | ||
| Post# 349175 , Reply# 92 5/15/2009 at 10:59 (5,452 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia) | ||
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Wasting rescourses is NOT a choice, its something we must al | ||
| Post# 349177 , Reply# 93 5/15/2009 at 11:02 (5,452 days old) by electron800 () | ||
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That is what I meant ooooops :) Matt | ||
| Post# 349178 , Reply# 94 5/15/2009 at 11:06 (5,452 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia) | ||
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LOL..... | ||
| Post# 349211 , Reply# 95 5/15/2009 at 15:38 (5,452 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada) | ||
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Post# 349220 , Reply# 96 5/15/2009 at 16:32 (5,452 days old) by mayfan69 (Brisbane Queensland Australia) |
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Ever checked the Suds / Rinse Save option?
Askomiele, You make one VERY valid point. Almost EVERY top loader in Australia had a Suds Save facility up until the early 1990's, now only a couple of machines offer it as an option. I currently use a top loader but re-use the clear rinse water for the next load, therefore saving on water. But, if i'm not mistaken, not many machines on the US market had this option which is a pity. While i prefer a top loader, even i have to concede i will have to get a more efficient front loader in the not too distant future. Leon | ||
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Post# 349227 , Reply# 98 5/15/2009 at 17:03 (5,452 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula) |
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by th way.... it works greeeeeeeeeeeeeeeat! | ||
| Post# 349243 , Reply# 99 5/15/2009 at 18:58 (5,452 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia) | ||
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Tankless water heaters... | ||
| Post# 349303 , Reply# 100 5/16/2009 at 00:32 (5,451 days old) by electron1100 (England) | ||
Oh Dear
The GREAT GREEN RELIGION................divides all, like every other religion...........the only winners are the utility companies and governments............the poor public are bombarded with guilt and spin to control them........this is fastest growing most damaging industry ................the perpetuators of this all should be shot I for one am not drawn into any of this, it is to me the "Crime of the Century" | ||
| Post# 349315 , Reply# 101 5/16/2009 at 01:53 (5,451 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia) | ||
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Gary
In some cases yes and in others not quite. I'm not going to bang on about endlessly going green (and I don't think I ever mention 'green'), but many parts of Oz are at risk of literally running out of water. Some of our largest and most powerful rivers now 'run' at a trickle compared to even 10yrs ago. Now whilst this isn't the fault of the person doing washing or having a long shower, but rather agriculture and the way industry uses water here, governments have seen fit to entice us to reduce... When you wave cash-in-hand money under peoples' noses, they tend to react. The bigger issue here though are that rain patterns have changed and where once dams were normally at least 60% full, they are now, in some instances, less than 15%....so something has to be done. Industry too is doing something. There has been more regulation about waste and what may be reintroduced into the supply chain from a treatment perspective...this in turn also may drive costs up for what is produced in those industrys... Additionally, most people in Australia would probably agree that if you live where there are shortages then there is a societal obligation to do what you can to ensure that we don't actually run out.... Leon is a perfect example. He recently posted that his rinse water becomes the next cycles wash water. That is one of the great advantages of 'sudssavers' on older top load machines. By doing that, his consumption per cycle probably drops by a 1/3.... | ||
| Post# 349377 , Reply# 103 5/16/2009 at 13:36 (5,451 days old) by electron1100 (England) | ||
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Rapunzal
Thankyou for articulating my thoughts on this sunject. I have no issue with people who live in parts of the world where water is in short supply, they will have accomodated this in their lifestyles already But I have issue with as Rapunzel says those that take the moral high ground and become holier than thou in there approach, puritanism never impresses me no matter what it relates to I work in recycling and the town i work is full of ageing middle class hippies who have spent far too much time doing drugs and fighting any cause they happen to take a shine to, they are so up there own arse they cant even smile and this new green religion has allowed them to become even bigger sanctimonious pious bores.......... Gary | ||
| Post# 349480 , Reply# 104 5/17/2009 at 03:47 (5,450 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia) | ||
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I think this excerpt from my post 349000 really sums up how I think. 'When it all boils down to it, I don't begrudge anyone using an appliance appropriately (you define it!) be it vintage or new. What I do begrudge is the 'don't give a toss' attitude that some people exhibit when responding to others and that includes deriding your elected officials. If people don't like what is happening in their oun country, they should lobby those responcible for making the changes. If you can't be bothered voting and having a say with your vote or writing a letter to a local member, then your criticism and moans fall on deaf ears no matter how valid they are.' ...with an emphasis on the 'don't give a toss' attitude. Maybe I do care just a little too much about what happens both locally and nationally. I have never really thought of myself as 'green' or a conservationalist - certainly not as a radical one - but the more I think about it, the more I can't stand waste for the sake of waste especially if something can be done about it: - We recycle as much as practical (at least 95% that can be) - have pearlator taps to give the feeling of high flow - low voltage lights or fluro globes (have you tried to get Bayonet cap incandecent bulbs lately?) - AAA rated shower rose - run the dishwasher when full even though it can do either a top or bottom rack wash on any cycle. - hand water the garden beds (use of fixed sprinklers are illegal here at the moment as is lawn watering and car washing at home) Our environmental downfall is the dryer as half the washing goes through it. So no, I'm certainly not perfect and could be better... ...all I ask people to do is 'to consider the impact they make' rather than just keep on using as if something can not run out for at some point it just may as Goulburn got perilously close to finding out and some parts of America as posted here.... | ||
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Post# 350451 , Reply# 106 5/20/2009 at 22:32 (5,446 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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i really wish all of these smar a$%^ people from the uk woul
All right keith you pipsqueak, you've gone way too far in being rude. And that's an understatement!!. HOW DARE YOU!! This is a free board where everyone is entitled to express their opinion, but with that freedom of expression comes with the need for tact and yes, even if you don't agree, still some resemblance of respect for someone elses' opinion. You're the one who needs to stop postinging. How dare you malign indivuals form other parts of the globe. You refuse to see and are so damned narrow-minded about your beliefs, you don't wanna see that there are truely other places in the world who do have a legitimate reason for being conservative, albeit either because of natural resource bounty (lack thereof), or because of simple economic situations. Yes, in some ways everything is totally upside down in the approach and it appears to be a bandaid trying to stop the flood of water coming into the Titanic. I have to be concerned about water usage because the expense of my water bill and my source of water is a huge man-made lake less than 5 miles from my house. I have no chhoice but to water my yard and keep my soil moist so my foundation doesn't crack. I'll quit watering and you can fork over the $20,000 to $35,000 to thoroughly repair my foundation!!! I'm not thrilled about the new proposed CAFE higher mileage standard recommended by the Obama admin. The result will make purchasing and using pick-ups extremely expensive, which will do away with "Bubba" toolin around in his pick-up truck, and I like bein with Bubba, they're usually sexy bears. But we're all gonna have to make sopme sacrifices to develop more efficient vehicles. And don't tell me to start walkking mroe places instead of driving everywher else. Cuz I'll turn and hit your sorry a** self over your head with my leg brace and that sucker can hurt!! So get with the program buster and start being a little bit more tactful in how you approach situations. Most everyone around here who has known me since 1999 or 2000 when we all started this thing, I don't get riled up very often, but you torked me off royally.
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| Post# 350499 , Reply# 107 5/21/2009 at 02:32 (5,446 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia) | ||
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I don't normally...
....get my undies in a twist, but Keith, you're so far out of line it isn't true. Firstly, it isn't just the 'people from the UK' that have been posting here. People from all over Western Europe have posted comments here, but mainly the UK (which includes England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland if you aren't 100% sure), Germany, Netherlands and the Republic of Ireland (MrX doesn't say). Now just to clarify something else. I am from Canberra, Australia as it clearly says next to my name. We're that large island the size of mainland USA that is under Asia in the atlas or on the globe you possibly saw in school. That's it, between the Indian and Pacific oceans. I take exception that if you're going to be rude to one (the UK people), please be equally offensive to others who have posted (that'd be me in this case). I have probably written more posts here that have inflamed your sensitive, self centred and self serving nature than most people so please do me the courtesy of at least including my in your rants. Now, when it comes to posting on a forum, if you don't want people to reply; - when they feel they need to clarify something for you - justify why things may occur - give their opinion on certain issues - or even be flippant with a smile on their faces when they type ...then do the rest of us a favour and send yourself an email rather than posting because whilst we would like to have your opinion on any topic you please to discuss, we certainly do NOT need it given in such a way that it is; - rude in general - destructive to automatic washer community's engagement in forum usage - derrogatory to other users in particular. Now, as I mentioned above, I, and I am sure others, do value opinions given about various topics. Some of these I respond to. Some I don't. This was one that I did. My comments, opinions and remarks are as valid as any other persons on this forum. They are mine and mine alone when I write them and if others happen to agree with me at some point, then that is wonderfull. I certainly don't expect everyone to AGREE with them and you, and others, are welcome to openly disagree. That is what debate is all about. But do it in a well-mannered and polite way. However, what I do expect is that people appreciate why I may have certain opinions, especially since I normally give a justification as to why I said something, AND accept that I am entitled to think a particular way REGARDLESS of what they as an individual may think. Chris | ||
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Post# 350538 , Reply# 108 5/21/2009 at 07:51 (5,446 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula) |
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While that... in the batcave.... why the hell don't you go back to the topic of this thread? tip: OMG who's the next? I've heard something about Mr. Obama... HE cars... co² emissions... 7 years... Will you (Americans) have to ask for HE gasoline in a few years when you go to a gas station? LOL Can you imagine a HE car trying to balance it's load? LOL | ||
| Post# 350606 , Reply# 110 5/21/2009 at 12:14 (5,446 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada) | ||
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| Post# 350609 , Reply# 111 5/21/2009 at 12:26 (5,446 days old) by toploader1984 () | ||
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thanks pierre :-) | ||
| Post# 350614 , Reply# 112 5/21/2009 at 12:55 (5,446 days old) by iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas) | ||
Boy, glad I skipped this thread for awhile--it got a little hot. Now that we are in cool down mode. I wills say that I love my toploader too. When I do buy a new machine I am considering a front load, because I am wanting to conserve; but I do feel that the machine should reach the end of it's lifecycle before being scrapped--otherwise we are being wasteful. Use it til it's done. I do live in the center of America, and thank all that is good we are not in the middle of a dessert, but our water supply is dwindling with population growth. The equis beds that Wichita has pulled about 80% of it's water from for years has started to deplete to the point that salt water is seeping in. We do have a resivor as our back up water source, and are pulling water from the Arkansas River, treating it and pumping about six million gallons of water per day back to the equis beds. In high rain periods, they predict that we will recover as much as 68 million gallons of water per day to replentish years of irrigation and wastefulness. The old saying "water, water everywhere, and not a drop to drink" could soon be truerer than ever, so I do see a need to conserve. I think the U.S. is seeing what the EU has seen for years, and we are just coming to terms with it. I honestly hope we never see restrictions like what AU is seeing. So in short, I agree with both sides of the issue. | ||
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Comes to the Rescue!
