Thread Number: 23646
ROLLERMATIC TUNE UP PICS
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Post# 368201   7/29/2009 at 22:25 (5,377 days old) by soberleaf ()        

well, when i dropped that custom imperial rollermatic off my truck several weeks ago and was contemplating suicide over it (just joking, i wasn't that distraught) so many of you sent me e mails and posts saying that you like my posts on this site and hope they continue! well here's one i have been meaning to do for awhile.

this is the first rollermatic i got, from matt (everythingold) in grand rapids mich! it is a 1965 custom deluxe model and it now runs flawlessly! i did tune it up when i first got it and here are the pics for those of you who are interested.

here is a pic of it in matt's shop





Post# 368203 , Reply# 1   7/29/2009 at 22:28 (5,377 days old) by soberleaf ()        
first the top of the tub comes off

and lies next to a kds-17 in aqua/turquoise i picked up in cinti on my way home from that trip to grand rapids. it will be awhile before i get to that kds-17a.

Post# 368205 , Reply# 2   7/29/2009 at 22:30 (5,377 days old) by soberleaf ()        
i flipped it upside down

and the first thing i saw was gasket sealant that had gotten on the rollers and other parts. i knew the pump was leaking anyway so i had already deicided to remove it.

Post# 368207 , Reply# 3   7/29/2009 at 22:37 (5,377 days old) by soberleaf ()        
here's a good pic

of the pump and transmission. this is not a rapidry! it has a two speed motor however so there is a slow and fast wash and spin speed. fast spin speed is 710 rpm. slow spin is 465 r.p.m.

Post# 368209 , Reply# 4   7/29/2009 at 22:40 (5,377 days old) by soberleaf ()        
you can see how

the pump gasket sealant that was put on it has flaked off and has gotten all over the place. i had to scrape it off the rollers, agitate arm, the motor.

Post# 368210 , Reply# 5   7/29/2009 at 22:46 (5,377 days old) by soberleaf ()        
this machine has the "ball support"

that screws into the agitate shaft. it's that round black peice that the shaft goes into. luckily i didn't have to try to remove the shaft from this one as the machine doesn't leak and runs fine.

i am having a real problem gripping that ball support on my other 1965 rollermatic that i am attempting to tear down at the present time. but you guys gave me some good ideas on how to hold it firm while unscrewing the agitator shaft.


Post# 368211 , Reply# 6   7/29/2009 at 22:49 (5,377 days old) by soberleaf ()        
goodbye pump!

this one is about to be removed from the washer even though i did buy a new pump seal for it from larry in parma. decided to gravity drain this one, idea being no water would remain in hoses and pump, hence a nice dry tub and machine between uses!

Post# 368212 , Reply# 7   7/29/2009 at 22:55 (5,377 days old) by soberleaf ()        
here it is minus it's pump!

i did put the impeller back on, thought it might circulate a little airflow plus i felt it was probably needed to hold the roller on motor shaft. and it doesn't hurt anything to have it attached without it's pump housing.

for anyone unfamiliar with this machine it's the black device with the 4 vanes on it at the right of the pic and attaches directly to the motor shaft.

not the dirt on the metal agitate roller under the agitate arm. this will be cleaned off soon enough with alcohol here.


Post# 368213 , Reply# 8   7/29/2009 at 23:00 (5,377 days old) by soberleaf ()        
here's a pic of the rubber tub support

that rises up in the outer tub. the spin shaft housing bolts to it and it also holds the water seal on it as the inner tub rests on top of it. ofcourse this is an upside down view from underneath.

it's rubber so it will flex and allow the wash tub to move laterally during spin periods, yet reinforced with metal to be strong enough to support the wash tub, motor and transmission, and water seal.


Post# 368214 , Reply# 9   7/29/2009 at 23:03 (5,377 days old) by soberleaf ()        
another good

upside down view of everything. you can see i have already started running the hose for the gravity drain, it will connect into 1 inch pvc pipe and go directly down thru the floor.

the outer tub on this one is great, no rust at all!


Post# 368215 , Reply# 10   7/29/2009 at 23:06 (5,377 days old) by soberleaf ()        
the motor on this one

is in very good shape too! i did oil both ends at the bearings however. and i have bought a replacement 2 speed motor from mark in pa. that i posted about, just in case i ever need a new motor.

Post# 368216 , Reply# 11   7/29/2009 at 23:07 (5,377 days old) by soberleaf ()        
it's a clean machine!

still have to clean the rollers with alcohol though.

Post# 368218 , Reply# 12   7/29/2009 at 23:11 (5,377 days old) by soberleaf ()        
also, against the advice of many

i did oil the bearings of the agitate arm. i oiled all bearings except those of the floating rollers. i was careful
about it, made sure none got on the roller surfaces, and it's been several months and all is fine! i use this machine almost every day!

i also oiled the agitate shaft where it goes into the spin shaft roller.


Post# 368219 , Reply# 13   7/29/2009 at 23:13 (5,377 days old) by soberleaf ()        
another pic of the rollers,

before i cleaned them with alcohol and scraped all the crud off.

Post# 368220 , Reply# 14   7/29/2009 at 23:16 (5,377 days old) by soberleaf ()        
spin shaft housing

that basically holds it's all. it's such a simple design, i love these machines! they seem so much simpler than the 1-18

Post# 368221 , Reply# 15   7/29/2009 at 23:26 (5,377 days old) by soberleaf ()        
you can see the capacitor

at the rear of this pic. i was told these models use a capacitor to help the motor bring the tub up to full speed during spin periods. when it first starts spinning the motor is not turning at it's operational speed. i can tell that when i watch it spin, i can hear the starting winding switch click (disconnecting start winding) only after tub has thrown most of it's water and is spinning at it's slow spin speed.

this takes a few seconds and i always wondered how the motor was able to handle that long starting phase without overheating. again i was told by a friend on this site that the capacitor enables it to do this safely.

i also read in my manual i downloaded here that the rapidry models have a dual capacitor and a switch located on the high speed spin solonoid. so when it kicks into high speed spin it switches from one capacitor to another. i found this be true on the machine i dropped off my truck. i can see the switch at the solonoid, and the capacitor has 3 wires going to it instaed of 2 like this one. interesting!


Post# 368222 , Reply# 16   7/29/2009 at 23:29 (5,377 days old) by soberleaf ()        
here's the bottom brace

that the transmission is connected to by a spring

Post# 368223 , Reply# 17   7/29/2009 at 23:30 (5,377 days old) by soberleaf ()        
a better pic

of it's components

Post# 368224 , Reply# 18   7/29/2009 at 23:32 (5,377 days old) by soberleaf ()        
here it is

going back together

Post# 368225 , Reply# 19   7/29/2009 at 23:33 (5,377 days old) by soberleaf ()        
brace going

back on

Post# 368226 , Reply# 20   7/29/2009 at 23:34 (5,377 days old) by soberleaf ()        
almost ready to flip over

and put the top on again

Post# 368227 , Reply# 21   7/29/2009 at 23:38 (5,377 days old) by soberleaf ()        
ready to put top of tub back on

this tub is in great shape! no rust, all water holes on the sides are clean and open, i think matt must have done some cleaning on it before i got it. i know he had to remove a plastic bag from the outer tub that was blocking the drain hole.

i think also that it was owned by some little old lady who took excellent care of it and used it little! i know matt said it was kept in the kitchen which explains the lack of rust that a damp basement would produce after 40 years!


Post# 368228 , Reply# 22   7/29/2009 at 23:41 (5,377 days old) by soberleaf ()        
tub top is

back in place

Post# 368229 , Reply# 23   7/29/2009 at 23:42 (5,377 days old) by soberleaf ()        
and here it is

washing away! no leaks anywhere!

Post# 368230 , Reply# 24   7/29/2009 at 23:43 (5,377 days old) by soberleaf ()        
another

pic. love to watch this machine in action, it is so much fun!!!

Post# 368231 , Reply# 25   7/29/2009 at 23:45 (5,377 days old) by soberleaf ()        
here is a view

of the transmission. you can see the pvc drain tube also. nothing like draining it on the ground below the house! my house is up on a crawl space so i can can do that.

Post# 368234 , Reply# 26   7/29/2009 at 23:56 (5,377 days old) by soberleaf ()        
another thing i did was leave the back bottom access panel o

and i put a lite down by the tranmission and a portable fan. that way i can watch it for leaks or any other abnormal behavior and the the fan will help cool the motor!

i am treating this machine with kid gloves!

it might look cheesy but who cares! i want to take every precaution with this washer and i was concerned about the motor running hot, so i figured the more air circulation the better!

and i can see in the pic i used 3/4 pvc for the drain, was thinking it was 1 inch.


Post# 368236 , Reply# 27   7/29/2009 at 23:58 (5,377 days old) by soberleaf ()        
the lite gives me

a good view of what's going on

it will enable me to keep the rollers clean too. i periodically wipe them with a little alcohol on a rag.


Post# 368237 , Reply# 28   7/30/2009 at 00:00 (5,377 days old) by soberleaf ()        
there's the lite

it's in the back right corner

Post# 368238 , Reply# 29   7/30/2009 at 00:09 (5,377 days old) by soberleaf ()        
another pic

of the drain line. i am going to install a valve on this line so i can shut it off during winter to keep cold damp air from entering tub. i am also going to substitute vinyl hose for part of it so i can see how long it takes to drain water out of outer tub.

when i get the next rollermatic working i intend to install a second drain line in it's outer tub, the quicker it can drain it's water the less chance of a leak around a water seal i am thinking. and i have only found one replacement water seal for these rollermatics, so if i can drain the water quicker it has to help. at least i am going to experiment with this idea on one of my other rollermatics.

this little one i am leaving exactly as it is now! it runs great, so i'm not gonna screw with it! as said i use it almost daily with perfect results!


Post# 368239 , Reply# 30   7/30/2009 at 00:13 (5,377 days old) by soberleaf ()        
the last pics are of

the pump i took off.

here is pump housing showing the water seal. it uses a bronze washer that rubs against the carbon seal face.

these are available from dave's repair on the web, think he has 2 or 3 left. i got mine from larry in parma but did not use it since i took this pump off. will keep it for future use somewhere.


Post# 368241 , Reply# 31   7/30/2009 at 00:23 (5,377 days old) by soberleaf ()        
here's the other half of that pump housing

with the origional drain hose! at least the short hose going to the coupling that the main drain hose attaches to.

you can see from the shape of this housing that this pump will work in both directions of motor rotation. it will pump out during spin as well as wash and rinse, hence the overflow rinse can function. as you know this washer uses a reversible motor to provide it's spin and pulsate action.

another thing i learned from the rollermatic manual i downloaded here is that the single speed custom models have a smaller pump than the dual speed models. the manual said that on slow motor speed a bigger pump was needed to insure proper water pump out, hence this machine being a dual speed custom deluxe has that bigger pump. the machine i am about to pick up this coming week is a single speed custom model so i am curious to see what it's pump looks like! obviously it will be smaller.

how's that for rollermatic trivia?!

thanks


Post# 368252 , Reply# 32   7/30/2009 at 04:57 (5,377 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)        

Thanks for posting the photos and the explanation of how it all went together.
Those rollermatics look simple in the way they operate, but look very complex how all the pieces fit together. I think I'd get lost in the middle somewhere.


Post# 368257 , Reply# 33   7/30/2009 at 06:07 (5,377 days old) by soberleaf ()        
i felt the same way when i first looked at one

but after dropping one off a truck and tearing into it you'll feel differently! i have the pump and all the rollers off the custom imperial i dropped, and as soon as i get the agitator shaft off the tub will be out and then i can drop the tub support and the transmission and motor and dissassemble them too.

Post# 368261 , Reply# 34   7/30/2009 at 06:53 (5,377 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        

turquoisedude's profile picture
Wow, thanks for posting all the details! These photos are going to be a great to help to anyone who has to work on a Frigidaire washer but were afraid to start (like me!)...
Great idea about the gravity drain, BTW - it sounds like a really smart idea to keep the tub and pump of an occaisonal-use machine dry.


Post# 368266 , Reply# 35   7/30/2009 at 07:44 (5,376 days old) by soberleaf ()        
matt suggested when i bought this

washer from him that i gravity drain it. because it has a solid tub it doesn't need a pump. it throws the water out the top of the inner tub and it just drains away naturally.

also unlike the 1-18 that uses a perforated tub and always has water surrounding the main tub seal this solid tub washer only surrounds that tub seal with water when it initially starts to spin and the outer tub has it's max volume of water in it.

my theory is the quicker that water is out of that outer tub the better for that tub seal. that's why on the next one i get running here i am adding a second drain out of that tub. it will be fun to play with at least!


Post# 368287 , Reply# 36   7/30/2009 at 10:31 (5,376 days old) by everythingold (Grand Rapids, Michigan)        

everythingold's profile picture
That machine I believe was in use till last fall. A platic bag got stuck in the outer tub! That is all. I don't undertand a pump for solid tubs, a gravity drain ensures a dry tub. with a pump, water is always sitting in the machine. matt

Post# 368290 , Reply# 37   7/30/2009 at 10:42 (5,376 days old) by soberleaf ()        
i agree 100%

the less water sittin around the less moisture and the less chance of rust and corrosion!

one thing i do though is when i use it i always use warm to hot water on the initial fill so when the water and the water vapor does hit that water seal and the bellows it will be warm to hot instead of cold, figure it probably helps the seal and the bellows! in fact i never use cold on it at all, just keep it on warm.

and i think the main reason i like the rollermatics so much more than the 1-18's is the fact that the solid tub keeps the water seal and outer tub area from constantly being submersed in water. i would think it has to help them last longer!

when i picked up that 1-18 it's main problem was a leak around the water seal. this rollermatic is 44 years old and still doesn't leak!

i am anxious to see how these other rollermatics i am aquiring will run, whether they have the same leak proof seal and bellows. hope so!


Post# 368291 , Reply# 38   7/30/2009 at 10:52 (5,376 days old) by cornutt (Huntsville, AL USA)        
That fan

What you should do is get a muffin fan (the kind of fan that you see in the back of a desktop PC), mount it in there somewhere pointing at the motor, and wire it to the motor harness so it runs when the motor runs. Make sure the fan you get is an AC type.

Also... don't let the drained water just sit in the crawl space. You'll wind up having mold problems. Arrange some way for it to drain out from the crawl space.


Post# 368319 , Reply# 39   7/30/2009 at 14:03 (5,376 days old) by autowasherfreak ()        

Awesome pics Peter! Treat a machine like gold and it will last a lifetime.

Post# 368399 , Reply# 40   7/30/2009 at 18:54 (5,376 days old) by soberleaf ()        
thanks

i have one of those little fans but i didn't like the output volume of air it produced so i bought that baby at walgreens. it really blows!!! i figure the cooler it keeps that motor the better!

but thanks for the idea and all the comments from everyone!


Post# 368407 , Reply# 41   7/30/2009 at 19:28 (5,376 days old) by yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
we did the gravity drain like that on a SQ solid tub once, we used a drain piece from a bathroom sink, drilled the hole a little bigger in the outter tub, still used the pop-up piece like you said to keep cold weather out, which had the handle to open and close, and this took a 1 1/4 hose to the floor drain, which let it drain fast, this worked great for the garage, never froze up, just a thought....

could you do some videos for us, washing and watching the underside at work, please!

thanks for the great pics, helps understand what a simple efficient design, and how it really functions....


Post# 368473 , Reply# 42   7/30/2009 at 22:29 (5,376 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
Peter those are totally fabulous pictures! Great restoration and how fun to see it washing and all done! I also absolutely agree with you on gravity drain machines, it's what really helped my Apex survive for so long.

Post# 368475 , Reply# 43   7/30/2009 at 22:36 (5,376 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

Well Soberleaf, I have plenty of muffins fans. You need to come up and get some. Have you considered mounting heatsinks on the sides of the motor as well?

Post# 368483 , Reply# 44   7/30/2009 at 23:04 (5,376 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA)        

swestoyz's profile picture
Nice photos and a clean machine. Rust free usually means easier to work on! I'm glad the scanned '65 manual has been useful to you - one of the larger ones that I've scanned in.

Love the pump trivia. Typical GM. Surprised the bean counters didn't say - just install the larger pump on all of them!

You always could install a condensate pump to transfer the water from the crawl space pan into a drain near by.


Post# 368485 , Reply# 45   7/30/2009 at 23:25 (5,376 days old) by soberleaf ()        
maybe i should elaborate here

my little house is in a country suburb of cinti. called goshen. yes, land o goshen! it is swamp land! that's why when i had a guy come in with a bulldozer and dig me a hole in the backyard 35 ft. in diam. and 8 ft. deep it was full of water in a week! last year was the first year it had to be filled by me during the hot summer drought! normally this area has a very high water table!

my house is only 800 sq ft. amazing i have 30 dishwashers in it and now working on 12 washers! it sets up on blocks actually as it used to be a modular home that had a living room added to it. from the street it looks like a normal house but when you see it you can tell it's a modular style!

that's why i am not worried about a couple holes in the floor that pump my washer out on the ground below! it can't really hurt anything, at least i'm not concerned! my biggest concern would be the soapy water leaching into the pond and killing all my goldfish but for as much water as i dump on the ground with each rollermatic use it's no big deal.

but i appreciate the concern and the helpful tips, including the mold issue! my old house was built in 1892 and was huge, 3 stories, had a very moldy basement! i lived there for 17 years! guess i just don't worry about that stuff, maybe i should but oh well! i don't smoke, if the mold gets me, well, something will anyway!

but thanks again for the comments and tips!

i'm off on a road trip next week to go back to tenn. and get my rollermatic and dryer i bought off e bay, then to buffalo to finish picking up my last rollermatic from walt and a dryer, then to swing by brian in pa (old appliance nut) for a kds-17a and another goody!

this will be my last excursion! gotta start savin my pennies again after this! now that my truck died can't afford to rent the home depot truck each time i want something.

and i am out of room in this cottage! completely! so it's a good thing my truck died last week, i won't be tempted anymore! this can definately be an addiction for me! something i know a lot about!

we need a 12 step program for appliance collectors who can't seem to stop at the first washer or dishwasher! me!!!!!!!!!!


Post# 368521 , Reply# 46   7/31/2009 at 06:16 (5,376 days old) by christfr (st louis mo)        

christfr's profile picture
lookin good.. dont ya just love that thumpin sound..

Post# 369161 , Reply# 47   8/2/2009 at 22:21 (5,373 days old) by rickr (.)        

rickr's profile picture
Great job Peter! Glad you had better luck with this one. It is a beautiful machine!


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