Thread Number: 23976
I got a new Panasonic!
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Post# 373010   8/18/2009 at 13:39 (2,868 days old) by rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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The old Zanussi IZ16s's motor was on the verge of burning out, so it was binned and the Panasonic was the replacement.

I considered a Hoover 9 kg, decided it was too large a capacity, and our member, 'samsungfl' Hoover problems in the past, put me off.

I thought about an AEG, but my past experience, and member 'Aeg03' problems with scored porthole glass put me off that one.

I considered for 5 seconds - a Hotpoint Aqualtis - but Indesit rubbish sprang to mind.

Mieles were too expensive for my spin speed requirements.

Bosch were considered, but due to the suspended floorboard panels of the floor, I has to discount the Bosch (mum had to bolt hers to the suspended floor - but it is fine on a concrete floor).

So I went for the Panasonic NA-16VX1.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO rolls_rapide's LINK

Post# 373013 , Reply# 1   8/18/2009 at 13:48 (2,868 days old) by keiththomas ()        

Yes I have heard about Panansonic entering this field last year, They make the Best LCD and VCR's. I love my Ten year old Indesit still going strong and my Mother S218T Zabussi from 1981, Needs new door seal, Better built than some cars, Problem is too many firms have become big concerns and they are all the Same Electorlux - Zanussi, AEG, ETC, Indesit, Hoptpoint, Hoover, Candy. Where is this machine made and does it work well

Post# 373014 , Reply# 2   8/18/2009 at 13:48 (2,868 days old) by servisslimline (England, Brighton & Hove)        

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cool machine you have, ive only ever seen one and that was a brief overlooking on a video on youtube, can you do more pics and a few videos, i would love to see the machine in detail. thanks servisslimline (philip)

Post# 373017 , Reply# 3   8/18/2009 at 13:55 (2,868 days old) by rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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It is a very quiet machine, and the porthole creates an optical illusion of being larger than it actually is. The motor is brushless with inverter control (the carbon brushes on the open bottomed Zanussi made everything - components and flooring - absolutely clarty).

The Cotton-Eco programme only uses 44litres of water for a 7kg load; whereas the old Zanussi used 42ltr @ 5kg.

The normal Cottons cycles use 65 litres. The default rinsing is just 2, although a third may be added by pressing the 'Rinse+' button.

The bottom of the machine is enclosed, as it features a leakproof system. The drain pump cycles on and off as it spins, and is probably the noisiest part of it!

The machine looks a little like the Miele new design, but it might not last like it!

Anyway, I'm quite pleased with the machine, even if it is made in China.

Post# 373024 , Reply# 4   8/18/2009 at 14:13 (2,868 days old) by rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
I'm afraid I have no video facility

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And even if I did, there might still be a problem, as the outer plastic glazing of the door is dark/smoked plastic.

There seems to be a spray jet that activates on initial fill and at the start of the rinses. This appears to be linked to the inlet valve, like Bosch and old AEG models (before they became Zanussi Jetsystems in disguise). It does spray onto the clothes, but I don't know if it is very effective.

I am more taken with the drum paddles, as they seem to be better positioned - being at the rear wall of the drum - than the old Zanussi IZ, thus allowing more water to be effectively sprinkled over the clothes. The Zanussi gave the impression of the paddles being half-empty of water before they reached the 12 O'clock position. Both the Zanussi and the Panasonic had/have tilted drums.

Post# 373028 , Reply# 5   8/18/2009 at 14:19 (2,868 days old) by dyson2drums (United Kingdom)        

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Cool machine! I wanted one since it came out, its got 15 mins wash, quick 60 mins and many more cycles like shirts etc, n tub clean.

Cool washer and nice spray thingy. "Enjoy washing!"

Post# 373036 , Reply# 6   8/18/2009 at 14:28 (2,868 days old) by rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Cool washer and nice spray thingy. "Enjoy washing!"

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Thankee kindly, Sir!

Post# 373039 , Reply# 7   8/18/2009 at 14:36 (2,868 days old) by dyson2drums (United Kingdom)        

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your welcome! LoL, i was lost for words for the spray nozzle

Post# 373044 , Reply# 8   8/18/2009 at 14:52 (2,868 days old) by hooverkeymatic (England)        

Great Choice!

Post# 373050 , Reply# 9   8/18/2009 at 15:18 (2,868 days old) by paulc (Edinburgh, Scotland)        

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Nice looking machine.

Post# 373054 , Reply# 10   8/18/2009 at 15:41 (2,868 days old) by bertrum ()        

Great looking machine!
Very brave of you to buy one of these considering they are a total unknown with regard to build quality.

Good luck lets hope they are better than the other offerings form the far east.

Post# 373055 , Reply# 11   8/18/2009 at 15:41 (2,868 days old) by rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Cheers, all

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Comparing the Panasonic to the other machines on display in the shop, (Hoover, Bosch, Hotpoints, etc), the Panasonic is a creamy white - the others were more of a blazingly cold, Polar-white, white - if that makes any sense.

It still looks white, and I have to admit, far better than the depressing all-over pewter-grey of the old Zanussi, and my current silver-grey Bosch dishwasher. I really do prefer white appliances, but don't mind if they have silver highlights, such as the ring around the door, as on the new Panasonic.

Post# 373076 , Reply# 12   8/18/2009 at 16:44 (2,868 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia)        

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I love the tilted drum machines - they have me thinking of 1960's Keymatics....

Post# 373172 , Reply# 13   8/19/2009 at 01:58 (2,867 days old) by paulinroyton (B)        
New Machine

Hi There.

Your new machine looks great. They had them in Comet and look so coool, lol.

Happy Washing


Post# 373179 , Reply# 14   8/19/2009 at 03:14 (2,867 days old) by arrrooohhh (Sydney Australia)        

Any chance of some pictures? Especially of the drum!

Thanks heaps and enjoy your new machine. It certainly looks different from all the other same same machines.

Post# 373185 , Reply# 15   8/19/2009 at 06:06 (2,867 days old) by rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
It certainly looks different from all the other same machine

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Actually, it doesn't seem to be too different internally. For example, the soap box looks to be a similar design to Bosch, in that the drainage hole leading to the tub is situated at the front left.

Although I can find no reference to it, I presume that there is a sump eco-ball valve, since the drain hose exits the machine at top rear right - a la Bosch.

I tried shining a torch through the drum perforations, and could see the stainless steel heater, but couldn't identify the tub to sump drainage hole: I'm wondering if it is a stepped base tub, with the drainage hole on the 'step riser' (I think the old Zanussi was like this, if I remember correctly).

The drum perforations are slightly smaller than the Zanussi, and although still arranged in off-set serried ranks, the perforations appear to be set in a spiral (like a spiral thread on a screw).

Post# 373225 , Reply# 16   8/19/2009 at 11:47 (2,867 days old) by fl1012 ()        

Hi Rolls_rapide

So do you think Bosch may have had some influence in the designing of this machine?

Id have thought Panasonic would do a better job on their own to be honest. Will be interesting to see how long it lasts, reliability etc. LG certainly aren't all too special, but all Panasonics other products seem excellent so i can't see them turning out a poor washing machine.

Just this week ive seen two Zanussis of the latest (big dial in the middle) design, for spares/repairs. Not impressive seen as they must only be two years old - my Mums got one of them under my recomendation too - eeek!

Post# 373226 , Reply# 17   8/19/2009 at 12:12 (2,867 days old) by rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
I don't know, but...

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It might be the case that Panasonic got hold of several competitor models, identified their respective strengths and weaknesses, and based their design upon those results.

Pretty much the same way that all cars these days, look alike.

Post# 373229 , Reply# 18   8/19/2009 at 12:26 (2,867 days old) by rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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It's terrible that today's machines only seem to last five minutes, and you would reasonably expect a machine to last longer than two years. I always feel guilty if people ask about "the best machine to buy", and the blessed thing conks out inside a short space of time.

I think it is reasonable to presume long gone are the days of a machine lasting 15+ years. In saying that, I hope mine lasts a bloody sight longer than two years! LOL.

Post# 373234 , Reply# 19   8/19/2009 at 12:02 (2,867 days old) by askomiele (belgium)        
Well Rolls_rapide...

I feel the same way... but there will always be machines with some flaws. What I hate is that when you talk to people, they want high quality at low prices! This is not possible! When you use a washer 5 times a week, then a cheap machine won't last long! So if you want to have longtime pleasure, you'll have to pay for it!

Post# 373235 , Reply# 20   8/19/2009 at 12:04 (2,867 days old) by fl1012 ()        

Yeah i understand totally. I always give people three options where washing machines are concerned:

1. If money's no object, get a Miele

2. If they want something as cheap as possible, get a Beko (on the basis that Tricity Bendix are as rare as rocking horse sh*t, Indesit are shocking, Servis have gone bust, and HEC look plain awful).

3. If theyre somewhere inbetween the above two, get a Zanussi, or at a real push, Whirlpool.

However, it seems that only Miele will out-do 5 years now. The old Zanussi machines like your IZ, plus the ZQ & XC ranges seem to be lasting around 7-8 years, but the ones made since, badged Timeline, Progress Hydrosystem, Aquacycle-Esential etc, plus the latest generation of Essentials & Jetsystem+ models, seem to be failing at anything from 2 years, which is a massive drop in life expectancy. Hopefully it's just a very short lived blip in quality because if ours lasts less than 5 years i shouldnt imagine we'll be getting another new Zanussi.

Post# 373248 , Reply# 21   8/19/2009 at 15:35 (2,867 days old) by jwilson00 ()        

Have you seen the machine change the rotation speed depending on the load? The 3D sensor i think its called.

:) x

Post# 373275 , Reply# 22   8/19/2009 at 18:22 (2,867 days old) by rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
It does funny things on start up

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First things first, the door-lock CLUNKS! (Zero delay lock at end of cycle too!).

Then, a T-shirt symbol flashes for 5 seconds, as the drum rapidly rotates, weighing the clothes. After that the water is added via the drawer and "nice spray thingy" (thanks Dyson2drums, LOL). The detergent gets frothed up due to the speedy rotation and comes out of the drum-tub gap, but I haven't been aware of different tumble speeds, like the old Zanussi. Mind you, it is still early days - I'll have to make a cup of tea and sit down and watch it closely.

Post# 373370 , Reply# 23   8/20/2009 at 03:43 (2,866 days old) by dyson2drums (United Kingdom)        

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oh cool, it uses the "spray thingy" on start up. My LG does weigh the clothes by 3 tumbles at 100rpm. But i dont have a "spray thingy" but i have the shower spray (reciculation). Not as good as yours. LoL

Post# 373438 , Reply# 24   8/20/2009 at 12:53 (2,866 days old) by rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
"spray thingy"

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I had an AEG about a decade ago - the last of the true AEGs with the drawer on the right-hand side - and it had the spray thingy too. It had four jets all pointing at slightly different angles, so the jets sprayed different parts of the laundry as it swept past on the quick rotations at the start of the rinse cycles. To tell you the truth, I always thought it was a gimmick on the AEG, since the jets only activated on the fill. I wonder how effective it would have been if connected to a Zanussi Jetsystem 'active' pumped system.

Of the 'passive' spray fills, I much preferred Hoover's 'New Wave' method - that seemed to send a torrent into the tub.

Post# 373439 , Reply# 25   8/20/2009 at 13:07 (2,866 days old) by dyson2drums (United Kingdom)        

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Same here, i also love the hoover new wave method, known as "front fill". My neighbours soft wave had that. I've only ever seen one new wave live in action which was at old neighbours when i was small, but saw the soft wave daily at my other neighbours.

Post# 373655 , Reply# 26   8/21/2009 at 18:04 (2,865 days old) by rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
I tried a 90C programme running empty, with powder.

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The temperature range goes from cold, then 30 - 90 in steps of 10, including 70 and 80.

There seems to be a cool-down phase of simultaneously filling and draining (never seen that before!), followed by the two proper rinses.

Post# 373731 , Reply# 27   8/22/2009 at 01:43 (2,864 days old) by paulinroyton (B)        
Spin Speeds

Hi Guys.

Just been reading this thread and yes its so sad that some cheap modern machines only last about 2 years. I wonder if it was to do with the fast spins they offer.

I remember once reading in a Which mag saying there could be some realiabilty problems with fast spin machines.

I know this is not a problem with Miele. My Mum has had her Miele for ages and is never off. The machine is still going strong.



Post# 373810 , Reply# 28   8/22/2009 at 12:31 (2,864 days old) by rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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Yes, apparently some machines have 'El Cheapo' bearings, yet are expected to attain 1600rpm spins. I've seen photos of bearings somewhere online, for a modern machine (possibly Electrolux Group), compared to bearings used several years ago. The modern equivalent were smaller and less robust looking.

Miele on the other hand, uses decent quality bearings (I think they used to mention something about the same type as found on luxury car axles).

When this machine goes, I might consider a Miele (if and when funds allow!).

Post# 373827 , Reply# 29   8/22/2009 at 13:24 (2,864 days old) by paulc (Edinburgh, Scotland)        

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How are you finding the Panasonic? Hope you are pleased with it.

Yea, I remember reading about Miele bearings being equivalent to car axle bearings.

If you do decide to get a Miele, keep you eye out for end of line machines, currys have a Miele vented dryer at the moment for 242 reduced from 549 and I've seen Miele machines in Comet for 450 ..... unfortunately not when I was buying mine!!! I could've got mine cheaper on line but decided to go to John Lewis as delivery was quicker and I wanted the security of a seller I knew.

Post# 373844 , Reply# 30   8/22/2009 at 14:53 (2,864 days old) by rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Good Heavens!!!

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Cheap Mieles? I nearly swooned to the floor in a dead faint!

I does indeed pay to keep an eye out, but with my luck (as usual), I get a new machine and a few days later, there is a magnificent bargain on a superior machine. Thanks anyway.

I know what you mean about security of a trusted seller, some of those online entities seem to be 'fly-by-nights'. I prefer a physical shop, face to face with sales staff.

Post# 373845 , Reply# 31   8/22/2009 at 15:00 (2,864 days old) by paulc (Edinburgh, Scotland)        
Cheap Miele

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they were end of line models though.....the price of current models seem to have shot up. My machine is now 90 more in John Lewis.

Post# 373846 , Reply# 32   8/22/2009 at 15:05 (2,864 days old) by rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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Yes thanks, the machine seems to be fine and I'm getting used to its operation.

I was comparing the Panasonic's drum perforations to my mum's Bosch Exxcel. The Bosch has an awful lot of holes that seem to keep the laundry plastered to the drum wall. The Panasonic has more sheet metal in proportion to the holes - like the way the Hoover 'New Wave' had fewer holes but more drum sheeting than the AEGs of its time.

Post# 373847 , Reply# 33   8/22/2009 at 15:08 (2,864 days old) by rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
My machine is now 90 more in John Lewis.

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So much for the credit crunch! Do you think those retailers are coming it?

Post# 373852 , Reply# 34   8/22/2009 at 15:33 (2,864 days old) by paulc (Edinburgh, Scotland)        

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Yea.....totally!!! J/L is not the only one though....Comet had an Indesit Prime for 400, I do like Indesit but would NEVER pay that amount for one!

Post# 373856 , Reply# 35   8/22/2009 at 15:48 (2,864 days old) by rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
"but would NEVER pay that amount for one!"

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Me neither: never in a month of Sundays! Probably has the same quality (or should that be cheapness?) as a 200 model.

Post# 373857 , Reply# 36   8/22/2009 at 16:04 (2,864 days old) by aeg03 (London, UK)        

The Panasonic is a nice looking machine. I saw it in Comet a while back, seems very solid. Its a shame your Zanussi IZ is no longer working. The Zanussi IZ is a good machine, very much the same as my AEG in the programming. The only thing is the the IZ has the reclined drum and the underside isn't covered like the AEG? I maybe wrong. Is the IZ made in Italy or Germany? I should know this lol

Post# 373873 , Reply# 37   8/22/2009 at 17:12 (2,864 days old) by rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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Made in Italy. The underside had no coverplate, just a substantial 'Carboran' base peppered with slots/holes and a wide rectangularish hole in the middle. Silly design, as a water leak would cause damage to surroundings. I would imagine its purpose is to reduce noise rather than totally obliterate it. Also, the carbon dust made a horrible mess on the flooring. You could always smell the ozone and carbon dust from that machine.

The Panasonic on the other hand has no such odour (just a new rubbery smell) and the base seems to be sealed.

With regard to special programmes like 'Shirts' as on the Panasonic, are the Public so bloody stupid that they can't work out that certain fabrics should be washed on 'Minimum Iron' or 'Delicates'?

Speaking of 'Minimum Iron', why did the International Textile Labelling codes disappear off of washing machines? The Hoover and Hotpoint machines had it right - dial a letter or number that corresponded with the proper wash programme. Even better if the control panel number corresponded exactly with ITLC code, like '5' = 5/40, or '2' = 2/60, or '1' = 1/95.

Absolutely everything now is dumbed down to the lowest common denominator - i.e. idiots, which pisses me right off.

Post# 373968 , Reply# 38   8/23/2009 at 05:55 (2,863 days old) by aeg03 (London, UK)        

Did the Zanussi IZ use Fuzzy Logic at the beginning of the wash cycle. As the Zanussi is similar to my AEG OKO Lavamat. I know that when you press the start button, the pump comes on for few seconds then the machine fills with a little bit of water, tumbles a few times and then continues to fill with the drum tumbling in one direction until the machine has filled up. Is this a Fuzzy Logic thing or just the way the machine fills up as other Zanussi's don't do this and it would seem a little unnecessary if its just filling up with water. The washing must def use fuzzy logic control for the rinse cycles.

Where is the IZ now? When did you buy it? I got my AEG in 2002.

Post# 373972 , Reply# 39   8/23/2009 at 06:57 (2,863 days old) by rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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The IZ had a similar start-up routine. I believe it had a form of fuzzy logic, but not advanced fuzzy logic like my previous AEG had. That machine could handle excess foaming by adding an extra rinse. The IZ was not able to insert an extra rinse automatically.

The IZ has been sent for recycling (I deliberately snipped motor cables and flex, just to be on the safe side). Originally bought in June 2001.

I was just thinking, that with the cost of the AEG, Zanussi and Panasonic all added together, I could have purchased the 1800rpm Miele for the same price! EEK!!! And the Miele would probably outlast all three machines. Scary thought!

Post# 373985 , Reply# 40   8/23/2009 at 09:41 (2,863 days old) by rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Panasonic spin with full load

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I just ran a full load on Cottons-Eco at 40 and 1600rpm spin.

The final spin was the most stable I think I have ever seen. It ran as though it was running empty - it was in perfect balance. I am very impressed.

Post# 373991 , Reply# 41   8/23/2009 at 10:20 (2,863 days old) by dyson2drums (United Kingdom)        

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How many attempts? Does it give balancing problems like samsungs, and some hotpoints etc?

Thanks for the info

Post# 373999 , Reply# 42   8/23/2009 at 11:29 (2,863 days old) by fl1012 ()        
Zanussi start up sequence...

Our 2007 Zanussi Essential (ZWF 14170W) runs the pump for a few seconds after pressing start, then fills up abit, stops, then continues. However, it doesn't turn the drum until it's completed filling with water.

It also turns the drain pump off as the spin slows down, then starts it again a few seconds later. Ive thought about why it may do it, but it really doesn't seem to make much sence, just seems to faff for the sake of it!

Those IZ (plus XC) machines seem very well made for the money. 8 years seems the norm and that is pretty excellent for a modern machine i think. It's worrying that ive already seen several of the latest generation Zanussis for sale as spares/repairs, due to PCB or bearing failure. Hope they don't go the same way as the other middle of the market machines :-(

Post# 374134 , Reply# 43   8/23/2009 at 17:24 (2,863 days old) by rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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The Panasonic gives a couple of small spins with redistribution tumbling in between. Then it ramps up, holding at an intermediate speed for a few minutes, then gently powering up to full speed for the last couple of mins. Drain pump cuts in and out all the time. Much better than the constant 'GLUG! GLUG!' of the previous machine.

The spin programme time is preset for 20 mins, but in practice, it seems to only take around 10 to 12 minutes. I think the 20 mins is the 'worst case scenario' for out of balance loads.

I am dying to try all the different programmes.

The only thing that concerned me, was the powder drawer. I used Lidl's powder, and noticed mid-way through the wash phase that there was a clump right in the middle of the mainwash compartment. I put it down to the detergent not being as fine as other makers. But I'll keep an eye on that.

The old IZ had a little problem with powder too, in the drawer. In its case, the water flushed the powder out the drawer, but there seemed to be a slight back flow under the drawer, on the floor of the soapbox. Powder used to build up there, but I took to periodically pouring a jug of hot water through the drawer when on a wash cycle, flushing the soapbox clean.

Post# 374299 , Reply# 44   8/24/2009 at 11:51 (2,862 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        

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Looks a smart machine, looking forward to hearing how it performs, have sent off for the build diagrams am very intreagued as to how they have built the drum & bearing especially with the plastic cover on the drum backplate,

I wonder if it could be a simpler bearing arrangement etc??

Do you have mains pressure?? could the tap be turned "Low" so not flushing the powder dispenser??

Cheers, Mike

Post# 374328 , Reply# 45   8/24/2009 at 13:13 (2,862 days old) by rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
"Do you have mains pressure?? could the tap be turned &

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Full mains pressure.

I think the reason was on my part: I had seen a very small quantity of powder remain in the drawer from a previous wash. I merely added new powder on top. Obviously the two lots of powder stuck together. (The manual does say to add powder only to a clean dry drawer, so I've only myself to blame).

I tried the 'Quick 60' (minutes) programme on a load of whites that had a couple of stained tea towels (cheese sauce and sweet 'n' sour sauce). I increased the temp to 60 and ramped the speed up to 1600rpm, but didn't activate any options. There was just the faintest shadow of the sweet/sour sauce - not bad for a speedy programme, with Lidl's powder. The powder drawer was perfectly clear.

I think this machine washes cleaner than the Zanussi IZ.

Post# 374336 , Reply# 46   8/24/2009 at 13:39 (2,862 days old) by dyson2drums (United Kingdom)        

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how long did it take with 1600rpm spin and 60oc?

And whats the max temp n spin on the rpaid 15 mins wash? How long does it take with max spin and temp on the rapid program?

Cool, the quick 60 washes well, my aunt uses that most of the time on her hotpoint ultima wf860, she uses 50oc and 1600rpm most of the time.

Post# 374522 , Reply# 47   8/25/2009 at 03:35 (2,861 days old) by rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        

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Quick 60' really does take an hour, even though the display suggested that increasing the temperature to 60 would add 5 minutes to the length of the programme.

The 15 minute rapid wash: cold or 30; 400 - 800rpm only. 15 minutes. This might only be useful for the odd silk shirt!

I tried washing a lone dressing-gown, on Cottons-Eco at 40 and 1600rpm, to see how the out of balance sensor coped. The machine span (spun? spinned? whatever!) first time. There was a little tub movement, yet the machine carried on gently increasing speed until it reached an intermediate speed. As it increased in speed, the vibrations lessened. It held this for a few minutes, then at 3 mins to end, it gently powered up to full speed and became even more stable. On this occasion, the programme ended pretty swiftly, without a final deplastering tumble. Maybe that is to save on electricity? Who knows. I'll have to pay more attention and do even more testing.

Post# 921867 , Reply# 48   2/16/2017 at 21:33 by Rolls_rapide (Scotland, UK)        
Alas poor Panasonic...!

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My Chinese Panasonic washing machine is on the verge of drum bearing failure, 7.5 years later. It is not economical to repair.

So, out with the old, and in with the new model (which will be arriving fairly soon)... It's a Panasonic too! Apparently of Slovenian "Gorenje" origin.

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