Thread Number: 24057
Temperature control
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Post# 374011   8/23/2009 at 12:24 (5,331 days old) by hoovermatic (UK)        

Given the 'cold is the new hot' culture among detergent manufacturers, are machine manufacturers going to follow suit with lower than 30 degree temp selections? Are there any digital temp controlled machines that start at cold and go up in increments at 5 degrees for example?




Post# 374018 , Reply# 1   8/23/2009 at 13:05 (5,331 days old) by electron1100 (England)        
Cold is the new hot

electron1100's profile picture
Nothing more than marketing and spin, detergent manufacturers trying to appear "green"........and cash in on the "eco" swindle

But I suppose machine manufacturers will follow with such machines, i see the Indeshit Moon only goes up to a 60- degree wash temperature

Good luck


Post# 374142 , Reply# 2   8/23/2009 at 17:49 (5,331 days old) by rll70sman (Hastings, Minnesota)        
Warm is definitely the new "hot"....

Here in the United States, all new top-loading washing machines are required to be manufactured with automatic temperature control. A "hot" wash is actually warm and a "warm" wash is actually cool. To me, this is nothing short of ridiculous. It is my house, my hot water heater, and my utility bill, not the government's! If I choose to wash in hot water, then it's a decision only I'm responsible for! Furthermore, many people wonder how it is possible to sterilize clothes and bedding in these machines that are contaminated with lice or bed bugs or contagious viruses like the flu....

Post# 374149 , Reply# 3   8/23/2009 at 18:00 (5,331 days old) by rolls_rapide (.)        

If governments keep meddling, it is going to force people back to 'Ye Olde Wash Copper', or the wringer/agitator washers!

Speaking of which, is that type of machine still available?


Post# 374154 , Reply# 4   8/23/2009 at 18:17 (5,331 days old) by rll70sman (Hastings, Minnesota)        

As far as I know, none of the major American appliance manufacturers offer a conventional washing machine model. All are automatic, either top- or front-loading models, with that stupid automatic temperature control I mentioned in the last thread. I know Maytag stopped production of wringer washing machines in 1983. So, if anyone is looking for one, hopefully you can find a nice second-hand machine that was not used much and can be restored. There are still lots of old houses that have those stoic cement laundry tubs with a built-in tin washboard in the basement.

Post# 374183 , Reply# 5   8/23/2009 at 20:01 (5,331 days old) by maytagmightyjj ()        
No Auto Temp Control

Speed Queen still offers a Top-loader that does not "Dummy" down the hot water-- whatever comes out of the water heater is what you get on the hot setting.

Post# 374190 , Reply# 6   8/23/2009 at 20:19 (5,331 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia)        

ronhic's profile picture
Cold has been flavour of the month here for at least the last 20 years with more and more people changing to cold water washing. According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, 61% of people nationally used cold water for washing in 1994. As at 2006, 71% used cold water....

...so much so that Choice, our consumer magazine, now only tests washing machines on a cold cycle and penalises the overall score of machines that can't do a cold wash...

However, when you choose 'hot' on an Australian brand top load machine, you get 'hot' - whatever temperature comes out of the tap - as far as I am aware.


Post# 374217 , Reply# 7   8/23/2009 at 22:09 (5,331 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

The TOL Miele's do a 25degC wash, below that is tap cold.

The DD whirlpool that mum had would temper the Hot and warm temps, Warm was 30degC and Hot was 55degC


Post# 374247 , Reply# 8   8/24/2009 at 02:36 (5,331 days old) by hoovermatic (UK)        

The reason I asked the question is simply because every washing machine I have ever seen has a temp control that goes from cold, to 30 degrees. Having used Ariel Gel since it first came out and currently using the M&S gel and getting fantastic results, I am more than happy to save money on my electricity bill if I am given the opportunity. At this time of year, the mains cold is about 15 to 16 degrees in this part of the world and I have tested the temp a few times. As a result I have turned the dial down to cold. Different story in the winter though when I will revert back to 30 degrees.

Given that machine manufacturers often team up with the detergent guys I am hoping that we start to see 15 degrees appearing on the temp selector so when the mains cold temp drops I can still wash at 15 degrees.

I know that 'cold' water washing is not very popular with a lot of you for various reasons and each to your own. I have had great results with it and if it means that I save money on my 'leccy then bring it on!!


Post# 374259 , Reply# 9   8/24/2009 at 06:36 (5,330 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
Several manufacturers offer cold water washing

AEG has a SuperEco cycle that washes at 15°C for 35 minutes. Haven't seen it on the UK website, though. Electrolux uses Ariel Excel as an advertising partner. Bosch offers Eco Wash cycles: Hygiene (40°), Microfibre (30°), Extra Quick 15 (30°), Power Wash 60 (60°) and Color Extra (30°). Bosch teamed up with Persil and recommends their detergent. Miele's new machines offer cool and cold washing cycles.

I'm sure there are also many machines from UK manufacturers that have similar cycles.

Here's a little table showing the target temps of Whirlpool toploaders from 2008:

secured.whirlpool.com/Service/Sr...


Post# 374267 , Reply# 10   8/24/2009 at 08:36 (5,330 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia)        

ronhic's profile picture
ASKO/Asea machines and the Maytag badged versions in the UK can do a 'controlled cold' wash at 20c

Post# 374268 , Reply# 11   8/24/2009 at 08:42 (5,330 days old) by dyson2drums (United Kingdom)        

dyson2drums's profile picture
My dyson has 85, 60, 50, 40, 30 and 20oc.

I mainly use 40, 50 n 60 n every so often 85.
30 rarely n 20 once or twice in a year using ariel gel for refreshing.

Thanks


Post# 374269 , Reply# 12   8/24/2009 at 08:43 (5,330 days old) by dyson2drums (United Kingdom)        

dyson2drums's profile picture
BTW- I forgot. My aunts hotpoint wf860 has temp selction button and that reduces by 5oc each press, but i'm not sure what the lowest is.

Post# 374289 , Reply# 13   8/24/2009 at 10:23 (5,330 days old) by rolls_rapide (.)        

The Panasonic has 90° to 30 in steps of ten degrees, as well as cold.

I haven't tried cold yet, as I prefer the hotter washes for cleaning. Cold water doesn't kill germs.


Post# 374293 , Reply# 14   8/24/2009 at 11:00 (5,330 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
Cold Is The New Hot...!!!

chestermikeuk's profile picture
Hi Paul, given how well Ariel gel has taken off I`m sure you will see other manufacturers offering specific programmes, the new Hotpoint machines promoting the 3 Eco Cycles - Cottons, Synthetics & Fast Wash with the use of the 15d gel use a "cold fill" no heat, given our UK temp is between 7d - 21d tapcold then the Gel works great in this area!!!

I wonder if manufactures will add a specific 15d wash, because you wouldnt be able to "Cool" 21d lower etc...unless they just let the programme us "TapCold".

P & G also worked extensively with AEG for the Eco cycles as well, but that machine is only released in Germany / Europe its not destined for our shores at the moment!!!

What machine are you using now Paul??, do you select a long wash time and "Cold" temp??

Cheers, Mike





Post# 374294 , Reply# 15   8/24/2009 at 11:14 (5,330 days old) by passatdoc (Orange County, California)        
Depends on the machine

The Frigidaire 2940 FL has several temperature settings:

Hot (uses hot water line hot without adjustment; no integrated heater)

Warm-Automatic (mixes hot and cold lines with ATC)

Cold-Automatic (mixes hot and cold lines with ATC)

Cold (uses cold water line water without adjustment)

With such a machine, you can wash in whatever hot water your hot water heater puts out, it doesn't dumb down the hot water temp. I would appreciate having the Cold-Auto setting because it ensures (in colder winter months) that some hot water is mixed in to guarantee a constant "cold" temperature.


Post# 374318 , Reply# 16   8/24/2009 at 12:52 (5,330 days old) by hoovermatic (UK)        

Hi Mike - the machine I have is a H-axis Hotpoint WMTL79. I have used longer cycle times on occasion when I first started using Ariel Gel but after experimentation found that it made no difference. I use cold or 30 for all clothing. Once every two weeks I do a white wash (kitchen linen, towels etc) and I use 50 or 60 degrees for that. For white clothing like t shirts and stuff like that then I either use 30 or cold and have had 'brrrrilliaant' results. A lot of my white t shirts and tops have 30 degree or cold care labels and almost all of my Aussie Bum undies suggest 30 degrees or cold also.

I hear what people say about killing germs but as a previous poster from Oz has said, cold water washing has been around for years and many people use it and suffer no adverse affects. Incidentally, I have recently started volunteering at a local hospice for the terminally ill and had to attend a training course on infection management. We were told that as we will be wearing our own clothing, albeit with aprons etc, we didn't need to launder our clothes any differently and a wash in 30 degrees was more than sufficient. They also said it was not the length of washtime that made germ killing more effective. I am sure there are many here who will contradict this but I have used low temps for years, my clothes are clean, they do not smell mouldy or dirty, my washing machine is not smelly and I have never done a maintainance wash EVER in any machine I have owned and of all the people I have talked to about it, and it isn't that many, they have never heard of maintainence washes!!


Post# 374322 , Reply# 17   8/24/2009 at 12:56 (5,330 days old) by rolls_rapide (.)        
"they have never heard of maintainence washes"

That's 'cos they don't read the bloody instruction manuals!

Post# 374324 , Reply# 18   8/24/2009 at 13:05 (5,330 days old) by hoovermatic (UK)        
That's 'cos they don't read the bloody instructi

Maybe not. My manual recommends a wash cycle at 90 degrees once a month but I have never done that. I prefer not to be dictated to by manufacturers and use my own judgement.

Post# 374325 , Reply# 19   8/24/2009 at 13:06 (5,330 days old) by l86810 (Southend, UK)        

l86810's profile picture
I think Miele added '20oC' to the existing 'Cold' and '30oC' options on their new 5000 range.

Paul I agree with your point about going to 30oC in the winter.. to take the chill off the incoming cold water.

Alexander, I also read in the english versions of the manuals for the new AEG range in Germany that their 'Super Eco' cycle will wash with incoming cold water and will only heat if the water is below 6oC. I wonder if any other manufacturers do this, but just don't publicize it?


Post# 374329 , Reply# 20   8/24/2009 at 13:17 (5,330 days old) by hoovermatic (UK)        

Yes I agree, the cold water mains is too cold in winter in the UK which is my whole point. "Cold is the new Hot" kind of falls on its arse when we are in December/January if the majority of washing machines don't offer the temp selection option to choose 15 degrees. Perhaps I need to buy a Miele h-axis machine?

Post# 374331 , Reply# 21   8/24/2009 at 13:21 (5,330 days old) by rolls_rapide (.)        
"My manual recommends a wash cycle at 90 degrees once a

Agreed; that is a bit excessive. Probably it's there as a 'cover all bases' disclaimer for warranty claims. Ideally though, decent washing with mid-range temperatures and good detergents should sluice the machine clean.

I wonder also, if users put too much liquid detergent into the machines, does that also accumulate in awkward places in the machine?


Post# 374333 , Reply# 22   8/24/2009 at 13:27 (5,330 days old) by hoovermatic (UK)        

I have mega soft water as I have a mains softener due to living in a very hard water area. As a matter of course I use about 50% less detergent as well as softener. This applies to dishwasher detergent, shampoo, shower gel, washing up liquid yadda yadda. I do about two 60 degree washes a month and this obviously does the trick.

Post# 374699 , Reply# 23   8/25/2009 at 17:22 (5,329 days old) by toggleswitch2 ()        

One could add a mechanical thermostatic automatic (non-electric) tempering valve to the cold water line just before the washer to ensure a decent "cold" temperature.

These mix mains cold with mains hot to achieve the targeted temperature.


I had one in my house to bring the temperture of "hot" down to a safe level. In the winter my boiler produced steam for home heating, which resulted in usnafe hot water tempertures at the taps. (Hot water for the taps is produced via a tankless coil in the boiler).


Post# 375153 , Reply# 24   8/27/2009 at 16:40 (5,327 days old) by favorit ()        
even back in the eighties....

... sensor electronic mieles (W780 W782 W784) had the 20°C setting (have never used it). They had even 70-80-90-95. I always wondered who feels the need to have both 90 and 95.
BTW I have the W780 and the little temp display is very uncomfortable as it has not any light, so it's very easy to read 30 instead of 80 .... That's why I appreciate the one-dial system in my latter Novotronic :-)


Post# 375154 , Reply# 25   8/27/2009 at 16:46 (5,327 days old) by favorit ()        
even back in the eighties....

... sensor electronic mieles (W780 W782 W784) had the 20°C setting (have never used it). They had even 70-80-90-95. I always wondered who feels the need to have both 90 and 95.
BTW I have the W780 and the little temp display is very uncomfortable as it has not any light, so it's very easy to read 30 instead of 80 .... That's why I appreciate the one-dial system in my latter Novotronic :-)


Post# 375311 , Reply# 26   8/28/2009 at 07:53 (5,326 days old) by gizmo (Victoria, Australia)        

Fisher and Paykel Smart Drive top loaders have a clever feature where you can push a certain sequence of buttons to go into an "adjustment mode" and then set each of five temperature settings to a precise temperature.
So for example, the "cold" setting can be adjusted from tap cold, or any temp from 20 degrees to 28 degres C; then "cold/warm" any temp from 30 to 39 degrees C; "warm" can be set to any temp from 40 to 49 degrees C; and so on. These numbers are not precisely correct, I don't remember it exactly, but you get the idea.

I'm pretty sure my Asko 12004 has degree markings from 20 degrees on the dial, too. It certainly has an infinitely variable thermostat, you can set it at any point, not just at the printed numbers.

Chris.


Post# 375782 , Reply# 27   8/30/2009 at 14:21 (5,324 days old) by hotpoint95622 (Powys)        
hotpoint 95622

hotpoint95622's profile picture
Sorry but forget the environment and the electricity bill.

I wash bedding at 60c+ (kill the bed bugs and dust mites I say) along with towels and my shirts and white cottons at 90c.

The only things I wash at a low temperature are jeans and wool and that’s no lower than 40c.

The project machine will have 90c, 60c, and 40c programs. (Kill the germs)

Will say the Hotpoint 95622 has low energy programs where the washes are 10c lower than the marked templates (40 is 30, 50 is 40, 60 is 50 and 95 is 70) unless the super wash option is selected, which it is all ways on.


Post# 375802 , Reply# 28   8/30/2009 at 16:23 (5,324 days old) by electron800 ()        
I wash bedding at 60c+ (kill the bed bugs and dust mites I s

I certainly hope you don't have bed bugs!

=P

Matt


Post# 375911 , Reply# 29   8/31/2009 at 07:21 (5,323 days old) by hotpoint95622 (Powys)        
hotpoint 95622

hotpoint95622's profile picture
No I dont, but there is a big increase of bed bug infestations and I think it’s because people don’t wash hot enough to kill them.
And the increase in breathing problems from the dust mite.


Post# 375948 , Reply# 30   8/31/2009 at 12:37 (5,323 days old) by hoovermatic (UK)        

I think the truth is that we can vacuum our mattresses and wash all the duvet covers and sheets etc regularly in whatever temperature but you will never get rid of them, just reduce their numbers! Not a nice thought I know!

Post# 376018 , Reply# 31   8/31/2009 at 20:26 (5,323 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Unlike Lice and Fleas

launderess's profile picture
Bedbugs actually for the most part don't hang around after feeding, but move back into "hiding". This is why it is so hard to get rid of the buggers. And while a truly nasty infestation will have them filling a mattress, they can also be found in cracks, behind walls, and so forth.

A good washing will dislodge vermin, and send them down the drain (maybe alive, but they are still out of one's linen), bunging items into the dryer for a good roasting removes/kills even more.

However think about it, from one's bed one travels all over the home, and the vermin travel with you, hopping or getting dropped off as one makes one's way to the toilet or kitchen each morning.




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