Thread Number: 25871
The rated #1, #2 and Absolute Last Rated Automatic Dishwashers
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Post# 397375   12/3/2009 at 19:56 (5,228 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
After 11 years of use I'm giving my '56 Frigidaire spray-tube dishwasher a well deserved rest, now we've been using...

Our Latest Automatic Dishwashing Arrangement...

1949 Youngstown Spray-Tower
1953 Hotpoint
1957 Pimp-my KitchenAid...





Post# 397376 , Reply# 1   12/3/2009 at 19:58 (5,228 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        
Harriet Nelson's Automatic Dishwasher

unimatic1140's profile picture
The 1953 Hotpoint, rated #1 in Consumer Reports very first dishwashing report. Its the loudest by far of the machines, but it cleans so very well.

Post# 397377 , Reply# 2   12/3/2009 at 19:59 (5,228 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

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Love the swirling dish pattern of the lower rack, it screams 1950s!

Post# 397378 , Reply# 3   12/3/2009 at 19:59 (5,228 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
Upper Rack, its one powerful dishwasher

Post# 397379 , Reply# 4   12/3/2009 at 20:00 (5,228 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

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Next is my 1957 Pimp My Dishwasher KitchenAid...

Post# 397380 , Reply# 5   12/3/2009 at 20:01 (5,228 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        
lighted interior for your viewing pleasure

unimatic1140's profile picture
The lower rack and 600lb cast-iron wash arm...

Post# 397381 , Reply# 6   12/3/2009 at 20:02 (5,228 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

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Upper Rack, this machine also cleans beautifully...

Post# 397382 , Reply# 7   12/3/2009 at 20:04 (5,228 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
And Consumer Report rated this dishwasher "not acceptable" lol. Its really fun, and can hold the tallest items. The 180 degree water is amazing and it cleans pretty well.

Post# 397383 , Reply# 8   12/3/2009 at 20:05 (5,228 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

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The 180 degree water hitting room temperature modern plastics has a tendency to fry little bits of food waste into the plastic. Back in 1949 people weren't really washing much plastic in a dishwasher...

Post# 397384 , Reply# 9   12/3/2009 at 20:06 (5,228 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

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Look how cute!

Post# 397385 , Reply# 10   12/3/2009 at 20:08 (5,228 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
and yes TomTurbomatic you were correct in saying that sealing up the top of the Jet-Tower makes for a better, stronger spray on the dishes. I have a second tower, so I used the stainless steel screws to kinda-seal off the top spray. Works beautifully.

Post# 397392 , Reply# 11   12/3/2009 at 20:35 (5,228 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        
Just Stunning.

toploader55's profile picture
Beautiful Machines.

Robert, Didn't you get a Apex Dishwasher a while back ?
What ever happened to that baby ?

Love your Kitchen. Eddie


Post# 397393 , Reply# 12   12/3/2009 at 20:35 (5,228 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Luxury

mrb627's profile picture
What a luxury it must be to have three dishwashers at your beck and call whenever you entertain. I am sure you can't hear a thing in that kitchen when they're all running together.

That circular dish pattern in the lower rack looks like it holds quite a few place settings.

Malcolm


Post# 397394 , Reply# 13   12/3/2009 at 20:35 (5,228 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY)        
The pimp pink shot with the under-counter lighting on the mi

mickeyd's profile picture
and the light from the pink KA is just gorgeous, shimmering. My breath sucked in and my mouth went WOW. Have you seen the commercial for the people who need to control their pee where the characters are all made of pipe and wire and brass, even the dog? That's what the insides of the Youngstown reminded me of, and I laughed. I like the way it molds perfectly into the wndow sill.

I see you have hot water/steam heat. Isn't it grand?-- so clean and your kitchen is immaculate and beautiful and museum-worthy.


Post# 397397 , Reply# 14   12/3/2009 at 21:08 (5,228 days old) by a440 ()        

So Fantastic Robert!

I always thought that the Jet-Tower would be a great dishwasher if the cycles were a little big longer. Interesting about closing up the top of the sprayer!

Your Hotpoint is a knock out! I bet is sounds great when it washes.

You have a play ground kitchen! Fun!

Brent


Post# 397399 , Reply# 15   12/3/2009 at 21:10 (5,228 days old) by a440 ()        
Looking back....

Looking back at your pictures of your Hotpoint....that impeller looks so different than most impeller machines.

Do you by chance have a close up shot of it? It looks like it has more "fins".

I love your kitchen and all the colors!

Brent


Post# 397401 , Reply# 16   12/3/2009 at 21:28 (5,228 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

I like that Kitchenaid with the window!!! Is that a custom job Robert?

Post# 397402 , Reply# 17   12/3/2009 at 21:30 (5,228 days old) by joelippard (Hickory)        
As always Robert

joelippard's profile picture
I love that beautiful kitchen! What fun it must be to cook in there.

Post# 397414 , Reply# 18   12/3/2009 at 22:34 (5,228 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
Robert, Didn't you get a Apex Dishwasher a while back ? What ever happened to that baby ?
Eddie the Apex dishwasher is hooked up downstairs in the basement.

I see you have hot water/steam heat. Isn't it grand?-- so clean and your kitchen is immaculate and beautiful and museum-worthy.
Yup Mike we have hot water heat, it keeps the whole house generally at one constant temperature and no dust. As for why the kitchen floor is so shiney and clean you'll have to ask my better half that :-D

Looking back at your pictures of your Hotpoint....that impeller looks so different than most impeller machines. Do you by chance have a close up shot of it? It looks like it has more "fins".
Hi Brent, of course impeller pict attached at the bottom of page just for you. The upper wings are for moving air during dry! It performs marvelously.

I like that Kitchenaid with the window!!! Is that a custom job Robert?
Yup supremewp, I built that last year, here are the related threads:
Thread Number: 17694
Thread Number: 18552

and the video:




type=application/x-shockwave-flash allowscriptaccess=always allowfullscreen=true width=560 height=340>


Post# 397419 , Reply# 19   12/3/2009 at 22:53 (5,228 days old) by dishwashercrazy (West Peoria, IL)        

dishwashercrazy's profile picture
Robert, I am just in awe of your beautiful kitchen and that you have 3 wonderful and fun dishwashers to choose from.

Thanks for sharing, and I hope I can see your whole collection one of these days.

Mike


Post# 397420 , Reply# 20   12/3/2009 at 23:17 (5,228 days old) by tlee618 ()        

Wow Robert, it is always fun to see your kitchen and all the fun toys. I just love that pink KitchenAid mixer on the counter!!! Cooking at your house is always so fun as there are so many dishwashers to pick from to do the clean up!! Thanks so much for sharing.

Post# 397423 , Reply# 21   12/4/2009 at 01:25 (5,228 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)        
Kook KA

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The video of the pimpalicious pink KA front loader is great. That machine appears to be very similar, internally, to my '58 KA top loader, which also lets out a torrent of wash water. If one removes the racks, the drumming on the lid can be heard through one's stomach... The light and the picture window make it all worthwhile. Someday I might fab up a plexiglass lid for the KD2P, with a little fluorescent light shining in from the back. I need to redo the custom hinges anyway, at some point, since I've since figured out how they are supposed to work from the hinges on the Variflex.



Post# 397440 , Reply# 22   12/4/2009 at 06:34 (5,227 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Robert, Thanks for the beautiful photos. That lower rack from the 14 series sure improves the loading versatility of older models. Have you ever tried starting the KitchenAid at the rinses to give a prerinse or prewash while getting the load up to temperature and then restarting it? I found it really improved the results with not quite freshly soiled loads.

The blocked holes in the top of the Jet Tower probably make for better observation during the cycle also. People in the time period of the Youngstown might not have been using plastic utensils, but they tended to eat eggs, oatmeal, Farina, Ralston, cream of wheat and rice and those foods had to be washed off the dishes before placing them in a dishwasher where they were initially exposed to such hot water because it cooked those foods onto the dishes. When we began shopping for a dishwasher in the late 50s, my mother's friends who had older dishwashers, especially those who had Youngstown and Apex machines, emphasized the importance of choosing a machine with a prerinse before the wash so that the heat sensitive foods could be loosened with somewhat cooler water before the main wash. Of course, by then, there were no modern dishwashers that held water at 180F for the initial fill, but a neighbor who had a Kenmore put breakfast plates with eggy residue in her machine ONCE without getting rid of the extra egg. As the tale made its way around the neighborhood, the egg was blown up into the glasses above the plates and almost welded to the glass by the time the cycle was complete. We did not rinse for the MobileMaid, but mom did wipe the egg off the plate with a paper napkin as she loaded the machine.

In case anyone was wondering about the collar around the Hotpoint's impeller, the theory was that during the washing and rinsing the water level was high enough that the finer screen at the top kept food particles (floaters) from being recirculated and kept stray hard objects away from the edge of the impeller. When the motor stopped and the machine drained, the large holes at the bottom of the collar allowed stuff to go down the drain. The machine fills from an overhead spray and the cycle starts with a flush period of the water raining down over the dishes with the drain open so that helped warm the dishes and carry away some of the more easily removed soil before the first wash. Hotpoint had some smart people working on their dishwashers.

Robert, You did not do any sound insulating of the HP? They can really benefit from that.

Thanks again for sharing.


Post# 397441 , Reply# 23   12/4/2009 at 06:40 (5,227 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        
Three dishwashers ARE better than one...

turquoisedude's profile picture
And I keep telling hubby that all the time... LOL
The new arrangement looks stunning, Robert!! That Hotpoint looks brand-new - what a neat concept having a front load-impeller wash dishwasher. And that KitchenAid is totally awesome. You must have repainted it, if that is the one that you had posted previously (after having engineered the door window). The Youngstown Kitchens is unique, too! You have three fun choices to deal with dishes - simply wonderful!!


Post# 397463 , Reply# 24   12/4/2009 at 08:31 (5,227 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
Robert, You did not do any sound insulating of the Hotpoint? They can really benefit from that.

No Tom I haven't and I've been thinking of doing that, the problem is I have yet to find some high-temp, non-flammable insulation. Of course I haven't looked except at Home Depot, so I probably should get on that.


Post# 397476 , Reply# 25   12/4/2009 at 10:33 (5,227 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
Have you ever tried starting the KitchenAid at the rinses to give a prerinse or prewash while getting the load up to temperature and then restarting it? I found it really improved the results with not quite freshly soiled loads.

No I haven't Tom, of course if I did that I would have to open the door fast to add detergent and that would let out some of the heat. I try to never open the door once its started to keep as much heat in as possible.

I found a very interesting design flaw in the KitchenAid that one could not see without a window. During the 45 second pre-rinse flush the way the fill flume is angled to spray the water upwards and outwards to cover the entire machine, the incoming hot water drips have a tendency to wash detergent out of the detergent cup and down the drain before the machine goes into the fill cycle. It gets so bad sometimes that it washes 50% of the detergent down the drain before it has any use. I try to strategically place something above the detergent cup to shield it from the pre-flush if at all possible.


Post# 397530 , Reply# 26   12/4/2009 at 16:16 (5,227 days old) by revvinkevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land)        

revvinkevin's profile picture

Wow Robert, really nice kitchen... and three dishwashers? I really love the "pimped out" Kitchenaid. Just AWESOME!

I'd love to come by sometime to checkout your collection!

Kevin


Post# 397535 , Reply# 27   12/4/2009 at 16:36 (5,227 days old) by christfr (st louis mo)        

christfr's profile picture
love the machines!!!!! love that vid looks like so so much fun.. am so so glad that youngstown has a good home..such a cool machine!!!

Post# 397546 , Reply# 28   12/4/2009 at 17:24 (5,227 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        
KA design flaw

Robert, I think you will find that the little screen box for the detergent will fit between the bars in the top rack, maybe in the middle toward the front. Hobart put it there in the KD2P because you cannot get to the lower rack and silver basket with the upper rack loaded and in place. If you put it there, the detergent will not be flushed away. When I got my KDS14P, I found that the detergent dispenser allowed much of the detergent for the main wash to be flushed out during the prewash. I tried several things and finally managed to deflect the water that was robbing the main wash of its detergent.

When I start the KD2P in the rinses and then restart it, I measure out some detergent into a small container. As soon as the purge is over, I barely open the lid, dump in the detergent and restart the machine. Very little heat escapes, but the tank and the load are very hot so the wash water temperature is not cooled. If you tried this and added the detergent after the purge, you could just dump the measured amount down the inside of the door which would not require opening it very far or for more than a couple of seconds.


Post# 397605 , Reply# 29   12/4/2009 at 23:55 (5,227 days old) by a440 ()        

Thanks Robert for the impeller close up!
It is awesome!
I would think that not only for the drying cycle, the wash cycle with all that hot water....the fins would provide a "wall" of water in the wash.
Sounds like it is a very good cleaner for your needs. I just imagine the sounds! I bet it sounds awesome.
Hotpoint when Hotpoint was Hotpoint.
Not to mention it looks flawless in your cooking quarters.
Thanks for the picture Robert.
Brent


Post# 397659 , Reply# 30   12/5/2009 at 09:27 (5,226 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Three dishwashers (finally))

combo52's profile picture
Hi Robert can't wait to come play all the apps Smity&I will see you @ christmas.( note on hot water heating systems no type of properly installed and operating system makes dust and dirt. Only forced air systems actually make the house cleaner because of the great air filters available today hot air systems are also the least dry systems when installed with a power humidifier.)

Post# 397676 , Reply# 31   12/5/2009 at 11:23 (5,226 days old) by volvoguy87 (Cincinnati, OH)        
Forced air and dust.

volvoguy87's profile picture
When properly maintained, a forced air system filters the air, unfortunately, so many people don't change their filters as often as they should, nor do they use sufficiently high-quality filters. My parents' filters are only changed when I visit and have time do it for them. They have 3 furnaces and they have gone over a year between filter changings.
I like hot water and steam heating because it tends to be more forgiving of less-than-perfect maintenance. Also, the silence of a properly-bled hot water system is wondrous to behold.

I love the dishwashers Robert. I just need to get a KD-12 too,
Dave


Post# 397824 , Reply# 32   12/6/2009 at 10:38 (5,225 days old) by polkanut (Wausau, WI )        

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How about bringing the James dw upstairs for something different?

Post# 397826 , Reply# 33   12/6/2009 at 10:52 (5,225 days old) by frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

frigilux's profile picture
Beautiful machines, all three! How cool to have three different dishwashers to choose from when the table gets cleared. I'd be sitting in front of that KA watching cycles all the time.

And how long are the cycles on those vintage machines----30 minutes, maybe? Awesome!


Post# 397915 , Reply# 34   12/6/2009 at 21:22 (5,225 days old) by spiceman1957 ()        
Robert,

These machines are in such pristine condition. what a fine collection you have. What was the reason why Consumer Report didn't like about the Youngstown? From what you were saying, it an efficient job in cleaning. Oh, I hope you were kidding about that Kitchenaid wash arm weighing 600lb ?

Post# 397981 , Reply# 35   12/7/2009 at 08:13 (5,224 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        
Details on the dishwashers

If you go to the CONSUMER ARTICLES button on this site and tab all the way down to the 1952 article on dishwashers, there are pages of reading matter. They so disliked the Youngstown that they did not put in the cycle time, but I think I remember that it took 9 minutes for one wash and two rinses. I could be and probably am mistaken, but I think that time was given in an ad for the machine. I did not time the one I watched; it was too exciting to look up at a clock, but it was a fast cycle. Then the lid popped up.

You have to remember that when they were testing these machines, dishwasher detergents were very primitive. The detergent manufacturers were still looking for non sudsing surfactants. Monsanto came out with All as a low-sudsing detergent for clothes washers as part of this quest. DW detergents were largely water softening compounds then so Robert is able to get much better cleaning out of these machines than the people who were testing them back in 1952. One of the companies that my father represented had come up with a way to add a stable dry form of chlorine to their institutional DW detergent formula in the late mid-50s. To protect it from moisture, it was packed in one pound metal cans. Friends who had some of these very dishwashers were amazed at how the cleaning results improved when we gave them this stuff. Anyone who has tried a poor DW detergent or some of the no-phosphate formulas knows how important a good detergent is to good results from machine dishwashing.


Post# 397985 , Reply# 36   12/7/2009 at 09:27 (5,224 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture


And how long are the cycles on those vintage machines----30 minutes, maybe? Awesome!
Eugene, the Youngstown runs between 9 and 11 minutes depending on the water pressure at the moment since it has metered fills. The KitchenAid has 1 flush, 1 wash, 2 rinse and dry which runs about 35 minutes and the Hotpoint with 1 flush, 2 washes, 2 rinses and dry runs about 40 minutes. The Youngstown is perfect for a day of baking as you can keep washing things and use them again in no time flat.

Oh, I hope you were kidding about that Kitchenaid wash arm weighing 600lb ?
Totally John, but it is really heavy, maybe 15lbs to 20lbs.

Tom is correct about dishwasher detergents. You cannot say oh I remember that dishwasher from 40 years, it was a terrible cleaner as dishwasher detergents have improved so much over time. We would really need to retest all the machines now to get an accurate rating. Although the Hotpoint and KitchenAid are close in cleaning ability, both powerful and excellent, the Youngstown really isn't that far behind with modern detergents.


Post# 398091 , Reply# 37   12/7/2009 at 19:53 (5,224 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
Shhhhh!

Robert, about insulating the Hotpoint.. What would be wrong with using fiberglass bats on it and securing them in place with some sort of banding or duct tape? It is not flammable per se and what part of the machine would get so hot that you have to worry about igniting something on the outside tank surface?

Have you tried checking out "DynaMat?" They have all sorts of insulating materials for appliances listed on their website.
You might also see if you can find those bituminous pads like the new machines use and maybe they come with self adhesive backing so the job would be easier for you. I know that they will certainly stop the ringing sound that the tub makes when the water hits it.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO stevet's LINK


Post# 398116 , Reply# 38   12/7/2009 at 21:39 (5,224 days old) by unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
Oooohh, thanks Steve, that is a really interesting idea. I'll have to peruse their catalog.

Post# 398145 , Reply# 39   12/7/2009 at 22:38 (5,224 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

Again Robert, very nice job on the window. It's now a very special and unique Kitchenaid dishwasher.

Post# 398152 , Reply# 40   12/7/2009 at 23:15 (5,224 days old) by rollermatic (cincinnati)        
beautiful kitchen and dishwashers

rollermatic's profile picture
robert, love that hotpoint especially! and that window in your kd-12 is totally unique. just got my kd-12 i picked up in cleveland hooked up and running myself. i was amazed at how well it really does clean. and that cast iron spray arm really moves! i use mine everyday now. and it washes a load in about 20 minutes!

love your small appliance collection also, mixers especially. i just started collecting mixers myself, i'm up to 3 but will never let it go to the extreme i did with dishwasher collecting.

really love your kitchen! those pics are this site at it's best!


Post# 398186 , Reply# 41   12/8/2009 at 06:44 (5,223 days old) by westingman123 ()        

>but will never let it got to the extreme I did with dishwasher collecting< Ahem, I said the same thing about vacuum cleaners, Good Luck with that. :-)

Post# 398228 , Reply# 42   12/8/2009 at 10:38 (5,223 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

gansky1's profile picture
You guys need more stuff! I don't see nearly enough coffee pots. We'll fix that in a few weeks then...

That Dynamat is a terrific idea, may have to order some for my KDS-18 that I just put back into the kitchen last night. It really isn't that loud and the noise is part of the charm in a way.


Post# 398234 , Reply# 43   12/8/2009 at 11:20 (5,223 days old) by electron1100 (England)        
Beautiful Things

electron1100's profile picture
These are to me items of beauty, a pleasure to see and own, they create such a good time feeling.....

Brilliant as is the kitchen they live in

Thanks
Gary


Post# 398262 , Reply# 44   12/8/2009 at 13:35 (5,223 days old) by aldspinboy (Philadelphia, Pa)        

aldspinboy's profile picture
Robert I remember when you put the saw to that machine,I thought that you were going to destroy it lol.
The Kitchen is stunning and the machines are TRUE beauties of industrial art.
When I first got on this great site, I went to ( see it wash ) and went to the Youngstown Dishwasher and was blown away because I never seen a wash arm like that before. Does that dishwasher still has a light in it like the aid ?
The kitchenaid dishwasher I grow up with my neighbors the Morgans....
They only ran it twice for me, and the second time one of the glasses broke inside she put some glasses on the bottom rack! If she only knew...There is no mercy down there.
So after that Mrs Morgan past away and here narrow minded daughter never used it again. She used it for storage I mean bags and bags in the interior so I would go and take them out just to see and turn that heavy wash arm and wished I could turn it on. But they cut the power to it , and the dial and the large door lock was defective the inside mint. That was in the 70's and would now and then try to get the machine away from her, but she always said ( wheeen I get my kitchen done) Which never happen... so the last time I saw it was in 2003 I would look at that machine every time I was over there so total over a 100 times lol. Just like I look at your video of that dishwaher a hundred times. It simply amazes me how one motor can turn that wash arm that fast!!!
So seeing yours does feel a void.
Did you get that Kitchenaid dishwasher at an estate sale for ten or twenty bucks
that I recall ?
Well I have a Kitchenaid KDS16 that has been setting for over a year now and want to get it going at some point, it is in the basement I wanted to use it as a second one down there but need to get more hookup's Toggleswitch2 did a hookup that I thought was real cool down his basement if he could share how he did it... I would really appreciated it and your thought's as well . This want be no time soon I am still Working on the Kenmore which Robert thanks again for the cap I will be E-mailing you soon. Life has been a little crazy lately.
Here is the pic of the Dishwasher I grow up with.
( Jetcones Dishwasher.)
This is the model without the stainless, there's matched the cabinet's witch was in a light wood grain.


Darren k.


Post# 398263 , Reply# 45   12/8/2009 at 13:48 (5,223 days old) by aldspinboy (Philadelphia, Pa)        

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Here is the KDS16 which I think Kevin here has as well.







Darren k.


Post# 398264 , Reply# 46   12/8/2009 at 13:49 (5,223 days old) by aldspinboy (Philadelphia, Pa)        

aldspinboy's profile picture
Pic 2.

Post# 398282 , Reply# 47   12/8/2009 at 15:16 (5,223 days old) by autowasherfreak ()        

Robert, I just love your kitchen, especially the colors. Your appliances are fantastic too. It's nice to have more than one dishwasher. I just bought a KitchenAid Custom 21 for $10.00 and I just love it. I changed the front panels to harvest gold, and this spring I'm going to paint the back and sides white unless I can find some harvest gold paint somewhere.

Post# 398290 , Reply# 48   12/8/2009 at 15:56 (5,223 days old) by spiceman1957 ()        
Robert,

I was thinking after reading your thread that you should contact Consumer Reports and get them to test your Youngstown dishwasher again, this time using a modern detergent. I wish my Dad was here so that he could see your machines! He would be impressed as he took a appliance course (homestudy) and was pretty good about putting gaskets on dryers/freezers, new stove units and etc. on our appliances. Saved us a lot of money!
John



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