Repairman Gone & So Is The Leak!

Did a full wash load of some cleaning rags and other items soiled by the repair, and my little lad worked a treat!

No visable water on the floor afterwards, and aside from the "alarm clock" sound of the transmission, quiet as a church mouse. During the spin especially the unit is quite slient and smooth, which is a blessing as it means the bearings are fine. Oddly it seems the unit holds more water than before. Go figure.

Gordon:

Thought of you and your posts during the entire repair! *LOL*

Having read your tips, advice and such on now to work on BD Whirlpool washers, including the portables, had my eye on the repair man in case he should do something *I* felt wasn't right.

As your posts stated, and I noted above, getting the inner tub of a 20 some odd year old washer to shift is *QUITE* an undertaking.

First, something everyone should know and read elsewhere about the tub nut on vintage BD washers. Contrary to belief, not all nuts screw on "clockwise" (that is one has to bang them to the right to shift), but rather some actually go the other way (banged to the left). Repairman tried a bit of both until he found which way started the nut to shift (noticed I said *started* *LOL*). Apparently many DIYs and even some repairmen whack at the things only to the right, causing damage and often breaking the nut.

Again, Gordon, as per your posts, once the nut was off, that was half the battle. A inner tub that has not been removed since installed 20 or so years ago does not shift easily! Repairman kept muttering about "gunked up soap and ******" holding the thing down. He first pushed the tub down sharply, then violently rocked the thing, as if he meant to break it. Happily one knew what he was after; trying to shift the inner "crud" that was acting like a seal around the center post. Once the stuff was broken up the tub *slowly* gave way.

Was very worried that given the machine's age the tub lips would not reseat properly, and or repairman would damage something, but all went well. Was VERY concerned about the air dome, as repairman kept leaning the tub on it's side as he tried to force/remove the old gasket then insert the new one.

Seals:

Was that gobsmacked when repairman only used the tub nuts/bolts repair kit and gasket seal. I mean the man had stood here several weeks ago looking at the same parts brakedown as Moi, and told me what parts were needed. Guess as you say Gordon, much of the other seals involved opening up or taking apart the transmission, and he wasn't going there, hence parts went unused.

Rust:

Really wanted to hit the small rust spots, but again didn't know what repairman would do if he heard me spraying Rustoleum on the spots. As the area was where the center post goes into the tub, not sure there would have been time for the product to "cure" before unit was put back together. Directions on can state to wait at least one hour between coats (two required of rust converter if one is not going to paint over), or one to two hours between rust remover then painting over.

Figured out that the rust was caused by water leaking down from the agitator area due to the bad seal. Center post had rust areas that matched some of the areas on the tub. Repairman sanded/removed the rust on the center post, then coated it lightly with Vaseline (to make sliding the tub with new gasket seal easier). It was the coating of Vaseline that gave one pause about the Rustoleum, as am sure some of it would rub off on the treated areas.

Again, knowing now how *easy* it tis to get at the inner tub,may, when one has the time, take a peek and work on the small bits of rust. Still considering what the unit has been through, the both tubs have resisted rust so well, it very well may be by the time the spots cause any real damage the unit may be truly knackered.

Parts:

Repairman stated the wheels on my unit are "frozen", which is why one has such a hard time shoving it about. Do know the darn things are ruining my floors, so may have to bite the bullet and order a set from Sears. Ordered a set for the matching portable dryer several months ago, and they were dear.

Surplus:

Here is what one has that wasn't used:

FSP 351830 (2)
FSP 91938 (2)

Two small rubber ring type seals (not sure of part number, and they are in a clear plastic bag.

Appliance OEM Replacement Part - 76673 (tub repair kit).

Repairman only used part of the other tub repair kit (FSP 76673), that is three out of the four seals (normal for this type of repair), but none of the screws (he reused the ones from the washer, muttering something about "Phillip's heads".

So that's me for you. Hopefully not too much water leaked down into the transmisson, if any, but want things to "dry out" anyway.

Again, thanks to all of you here in the group. Couldn't have gotten here without you.

L.


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Post# 399018 12/11/2009 at 12:33 (5,248 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)
Checkrate/Likes Pardon for starting a new thread on my Whirlpool woes, but this should be the last hopefully! Repairman came at 11am today, (don't ask about the appointment scheduled for Wednesday), and after much work (for which he felt his company should have charged me more), my washer now apparently does not leak! Am here to tell you, anyone who has seen the inner workings of a belt drive Whirlpool must bow to the wonderful workmanship. Really is a shame nothing like this is made today. Getting the upper plastic bits,agitator and inner tub off was a breeze, but the outer tub nut took almost one half hour of banging, clanking, swearing, muttering under his breath and finally sheer force to shift. After getting the darn thing out the poor man realised he was NOT going to be able to do the job without taking off the entire cabinet. Something one suspects he knew all along, but was trying to save time. As stated in another post, didn't really want to interfere with Mr. Repairman and his helper, so stayed in the background and only came in when asked or handed something to move out of way (tubs, etc). Could have saved myself the trip to the hardware store (and expense) for rust prevention/treatment products. The inner tub had no rust on the outside, save for a few bits in and near the center post area. Outer tub was rust free inside and out. Really should have taken a few snaps, but again didn't want to get in the way, and also camera wasn't charged. Wanted to sand down and treat the bits of rust on the inside of the outer, but repairman shouted that it was not required and by applying what one had (Rustoleum Rust Treatment, then spray enamel paint), I was going to "ruin my laundry". So that was the end of that. Didn't want to do anything that would either tick off the man, or for him to note and say later (if the repair went south), that one had did something not advised. Now that one knows where the rusty spots are, and that getting the inner tub off isn't that difficult, may well order some POR-15 later on and treat them anyway. But that is a job for another day. Anywho, for all the seals one ordered, the man only used the center tub gasket and the tub nuts/seals repair kit. So here's me now with all these spin tube and other seals that are now surplus to requirements. Did ask about changing the spin tube seal, but repairman said after examining the thing it was fine and untouched by water. To him this meant leaking was coming from above (the tub gasket), and to leave well enough alone. According to repairman such a repair would mean taking the transmission apart or at least off, and as you might guess, something he wasn't egar to do unless required. This meant that once the unit was put back together (new tub gasket seals and such), if the unit still leaked, he would have to go in again. Must say after watching the two men take apart and put my little guy back together again, am really impressed with vintage Whirlpool design and build quality. I mean a twenty year or so old washer and not only were the tubs 99% rust free(god only knows what they coated and or painted them with), but the inner workings including belts and pump are still going like champs. Repairman did say he could tell someone had taken off the cabinet before (some of the screws were different), so perhaps the pump or belt had been replaced at some point in the past. Can understand very well now why repairmen hate working these little vintage Whirlpools. Teh portables are built "backwards", which means the cabinet and everything else has to come off for repairs. To gets the repairs one has to put the machine back together, run it and hope the work took. If not the fun starts all over again. Long story short, after machine was put together again, repairman allowed it to fill to the max and do it's thing. NO LEAKS! Floor underneath the unit was totally dry after the test run. Oh well, now off to clean up after repairmen (who would think so much water and muck would come out of a "dry" machine?), and then run my own test load of items fouled during the repair. Really must say thank you to all members for your kind support, assistance and works of wisdom. It looks like my little lad has been saved, and one owes it mostly to all of YOU. Repairman's helper was an elderly gentleman, and even he marvelled at the machine.

Post# 399021 , Reply# 1 12/11/2009 at 12:40 (5,248 days old) by volvoguy87 (Cincinnati, OH)
Checkrate/Likes *Congratulations!* I'm glad to hear your washer has been repaired. I'm especially glad you took the "I want this one repaired, if I wanted a new one I would have bought one" route. Let's see what Gordon has to say about seals. If any of them will fit my full size low-post and tall-post Lady Kenmores, I might be interested in some. Go wash up, like you so deserve to do, Dave

Post# 399033 , Reply# 2 12/11/2009 at 13:32 (5,248 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)
Checkrate/Likes *Great News.* Isn't a wonderful feeling when something you like or love is repairable ? Very Nice and Many Happy Cycles. Eddie

Post# 399034 , Reply# 3 12/11/2009 at 13:33 (5,248 days old) by goatfarmer (South Bend, home of Champions)
Checkrate/Likes Good for you, Laundress! Many happy days to you and your jr. Whirlpool!

Post# 399091 , Reply# 4 12/11/2009 at 17:34 (5,248 days old) by kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC)
Checkrate/Likes CONGRATS on getting the little beast up and running! I have been learning to adjust protocol in my mind on how to handle vintage appliance work. I ALWAYS as a matter of principle changed the centerpost and spin-tube seals every time I had a machine apart. By the time I had done 20 units or so, it was standard practice that I continued with from there. Since I was selling the machines to people I never wanted to hear from again (unless they wanted ANOTHER machine), I did that for my own peace of mind. BUT, that said, the machine was usually all the way or mostly apart anyway, and it was my time vs. paying someone else. I was doing that for fun anyway.... Now, as these machines get older, they get more fickle to take apart as old parts wear into grooves that don't want to be disturbed, etc. I am realizing the old addage "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". If the servicers didn't take apart the center of the machine, and the seals didn't appear to have been wet, then he was probably right to leave well enough alone. Dave - the seals Laundress has should one for one transfer into your full-size machines. The spin-tube seal is used on every spin-tube 1950s to 1987. The bearing seals are different in the short post machines vs. the tall and tallest. I don't know what Laundress bought but they'd fit your machines I do believe, one or the other. Keep in mind though that if you buy a bearing kit, it will have seals for both centerpost heights and one bearing kit (285134) fits both types. About Whirlpool build quality...I never really looked at it from your perspective Laundress, so thanks! I looked at this backwards, in that everything made since with thinner guage steel and cheaper parts is just junk. Looking at old BDs as high-quality marvels is a nice way to see it. That probably applies to all the other vintage brands as well.... Gordon

Post# 399092 , Reply# 5 12/11/2009 at 17:38 (5,248 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)
Checkrate/Likes YAY! Washing days are here again The sky above is clear again So sing a song of Cheer again Washing days are here again.

Post# 399093 , Reply# 6 12/11/2009 at 17:39 (5,248 days old) by redcarpetdrew (Fairfield, CA)
Checkrate/Likes *Hooorayyyy!* I'm happy it all worked out. I guess your little portable decided that it wasn't it's time yet. Besides, I KNOW how much you were looking forward to getting one's hands wet doing wash with the twin tub. Automatic indeed! LOL! RCD

Post# 399108 , Reply# 7 12/11/2009 at 19:27 (5,247 days old) by peterh770 (Marietta, GA)
Checkrate/Likes Congrats to you and bravo to the repairman!

Post# 399114 , Reply# 8 12/11/2009 at 21:10 (5,247 days old) by norfolksouthern ()
Checkrate/Likes *A very wise choice* I think this machine stands a better chance at lasting a while than what gets produced these days. On the Rustoleum: Although I did end up with a paint chip now and then, I haven't had a problem with my cloths being "ruined" after I treated the inner tub. Most likely, I'll reopen it and do some scrubbing and inspection but I don't anticipate any problems. Keeping it clean and dry will certainly help in keeping it in tip-top shape. NorfolkSouthern

Post# 399456 , Reply# 11 12/13/2009 at 15:29 (5,246 days old) by sudsman ()
Checkrate/Likes *Repairman is gone so in the leak* and your money too!

Post# 399118 , Reply# 9 12/11/2009 at 22:11 (5,247 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)
Checkrate/Likes *Thanks Guys!* Did a full wash load of some cleaning rags and other items soiled by the repair, and my little lad worked a treat! No visable water on the floor afterwards, and aside from the "alarm clock" sound of the transmission, quiet as a church mouse. During the spin especially the unit is quite slient and smooth, which is a blessing as it means the bearings are fine. Oddly it seems the unit holds more water than before. Go figure. Gordon: Thought of you and your posts during the entire repair! LOL Having read your tips, advice and such on now to work on BD Whirlpool washers, including the portables, had my eye on the repair man in case he should do something I felt wasn't right. As your posts stated, and I noted above, getting the inner tub of a 20 some odd year old washer to shift is QUITE an undertaking. First, something everyone should know and read elsewhere about the tub nut on vintage BD washers. Contrary to belief, not all nuts screw on "clockwise" (that is one has to bang them to the right to shift), but rather some actually go the other way (banged to the left). Repairman tried a bit of both until he found which way started the nut to shift (noticed I said started LOL). Apparently many DIYs and even some repairmen whack at the things only to the right, causing damage and often breaking the nut. Again, Gordon, as per your posts, once the nut was off, that was half the battle. A inner tub that has not been removed since installed 20 or so years ago does not shift easily! Repairman kept muttering about "gunked up soap and *****" holding the thing down. He first pushed the tub down sharply, then violently rocked the thing, as if he meant to break it. Happily one knew what he was after; trying to shift the inner "crud" that was acting like a seal around the center post. Once the stuff was broken up the tub slowly* gave way. Was very worried that given the machine's age the tub lips would not reseat properly, and or repairman would damage something, but all went well. Was VERY concerned about the air dome, as repairman kept leaning the tub on it's side as he tried to force/remove the old gasket then insert the new one. Seals: Was that gobsmacked when repairman only used the tub nuts/bolts repair kit and gasket seal. I mean the man had stood here several weeks ago looking at the same parts brakedown as Moi, and told me what parts were needed. Guess as you say Gordon, much of the other seals involved opening up or taking apart the transmission, and he wasn't going there, hence parts went unused. Rust: Really wanted to hit the small rust spots, but again didn't know what repairman would do if he heard me spraying Rustoleum on the spots. As the area was where the center post goes into the tub, not sure there would have been time for the product to "cure" before unit was put back together. Directions on can state to wait at least one hour between coats (two required of rust converter if one is not going to paint over), or one to two hours between rust remover then painting over. Figured out that the rust was caused by water leaking down from the agitator area due to the bad seal. Center post had rust areas that matched some of the areas on the tub. Repairman sanded/removed the rust on the center post, then coated it lightly with Vaseline (to make sliding the tub with new gasket seal easier). It was the coating of Vaseline that gave one pause about the Rustoleum, as am sure some of it would rub off on the treated areas. Again, knowing now how easy it tis to get at the inner tub,may, when one has the time, take a peek and work on the small bits of rust. Still considering what the unit has been through, the both tubs have resisted rust so well, it very well may be by the time the spots cause any real damage the unit may be truly knackered. Parts: Repairman stated the wheels on my unit are "frozen", which is why one has such a hard time shoving it about. Do know the darn things are ruining my floors, so may have to bite the bullet and order a set from Sears. Ordered a set for the matching portable dryer several months ago, and they were dear. Surplus: Here is what one has that wasn't used: FSP 351830 (2) FSP 91938 (2) Two small rubber ring type seals (not sure of part number, and they are in a clear plastic bag. Appliance OEM Replacement Part - 76673 (tub repair kit). Repairman only used part of the other tub repair kit (FSP 76673), that is three out of the four seals (normal for this type of repair), but none of the screws (he reused the ones from the washer, muttering something about "Phillip's heads". So that's me for you. Hopefully not too much water leaked down into the transmisson, if any, but want things to "dry out" anyway. Again, thanks to all of you here in the group. Couldn't have gotten here without you. L.

Post# 399445 , Reply# 10 12/13/2009 at 13:51 (5,246 days old) by kic ()
Checkrate/Likes *Fabulous!* After all you deserve it! knew from the start this repair could only go well. Now You have 1 from each team: front, twin and top- fully equipped and ready for action! you go girl!! Louis.

Post# 399457 , Reply# 12 12/13/2009 at 15:32 (5,246 days old) by norfolksouthern ()
Checkrate/Likes *Still;* I would rather spend the money to fix this, rather than buy a new one that may not last as long. NorfolkSouthern

Post# 399460 , Reply# 13 12/13/2009 at 16:05 (5,246 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)
Checkrate/Likes *Sudsman* Find that a rather odd comment. What do you do when a washer at your plant or at home breaks down? Yes, one had to summon a repairman to fix an "old" machine, but after seeing what was under the bonnet would have been foolish to simply chuck the machine for rubbish. Aside from the center tub gasket having rotted and thus no longer holding water (a common thing for older Whirlpool machines one understands), everything else looked remarkably good for a >15 year old washer. Neither tub was full of rust, belts and pump looked good as well. This is not to say something else cannot go wrong in future, but that can happen with any appliance, new or old. As for "my money", it is just that and one acts as one sees fit. Total cost for repair was $185.09, which $103.43 went for the initial service call to examine the problem. Repairman did tell us at the initial service call labour would be nearly $400 to replace the tub gasket and seals, and indeed he muttered several times during the repair (which was a two man job), about the $81.66 one was paying for labour, but that is the price his office gave for the work and one was not paying a penny more. If repairman had a beef about his compensation, told him (very nicely of course), to take it up with his employer as they gave us the rate. Really was slightly afraid he would try to pull a fast one, and try to charge my account more, or shake me down, but that is what Visa is for. Will closely examine my bills next month, and take action if required. L.

Post# 399462 , Reply# 14 12/13/2009 at 17:01 (5,246 days old) by kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC)
Checkrate/Likes L - I think you got a pretty good deal on that repair! Considering service call charges, and the labor that can be involved in pulling a tub, you did well I think. If you're happy, and it sounds like you are, that's the most important part anyway! BUT, I believe you paid a fair price. Both you and the service company should be ok with the costs. Gordon

Post# 399466 , Reply# 15 12/13/2009 at 17:22 (5,246 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)
Checkrate/Likes *Thanks Gordon* We shall see what comes out of the service call "problem". Quite honestly was gobsmacked when the service company called us back and offered to do the job (if one found the parts because they could not), for the price offered. Especially in view of the original estimate. However as one stated to repairman, WE did not make up the rate, and certianly felt that repair service company knew or should have known what the repair entailed. The job invoice for initial service call clearly states the washer's model and serial numbers and that it required a new "tub seal". I mean if they were calling around to find the parts what were they thinking? Repairman when he gave us the estimate stated he would have to "take the whole machine apart", which he basically did. So cannot understand where the communications broke down from the time he left our home til he called in the results and or spoke with his office. Everytime we spoke with this service company, stressed this was an "older" washer and did they have someone who could do the work. They replied they have been in business over thirty years and the tech being sent had seen and worked on these units before, which was true. Agree the man should probably have gotten more for his labour, but that has nothing to do with us. He will have to take that up with his bosses. If my card is charged a penny over the rate on the receipt, will dispute the charge with VISA. Am not sure but am think it is illegal to quote one rate then try to pull a fast one when the job is complete. Only thing one can think of that might have come into play was that we used this same repair company a few years ago to fix the AC. The man they sent out totally messed up the call (stated the unit needed more Freon, and was basically shot, all without doing a through exam), took our money and went. Called another repair service who came and totally took apart and cleaned the AC, and it has been working like a champ since. We called the first repair company back and they did refund our money (apparently the repairman had pocketed the payment), we swore never to use them again.