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Thread Number: 27504
Whirlpool Agitators |
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| Post# 422133 3/12/2010 at 09:17 (5,151 days old) by washmeup (scottsdale) | ||
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| Post# 422135 , Reply# 1 3/12/2010 at 09:41 (5,151 days old) by ingliscanada () | ||
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Direct Drive Tranny Perhaps the Surgilator doesn't work as well with the shorter stroke of today's DD tranny, as with the longer stroke of the BD. | ||
| Post# 422137 , Reply# 2 3/12/2010 at 09:57 (5,151 days old) by strongenough78 (California) | ||
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Post# 422138 , Reply# 3 3/12/2010 at 10:10 (5,151 days old) by kenmoreguy64  (Charlotte, NC) |
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I don't think it would be very good or they would not have re-designed the agitator. A number of things changed in the first couple years of the Direct Drive machine (they had rear-facing motors and pumps, spin-drains, etc.) but one thing that hasn't is their complete re-design of the agitators to work with the short stroke transmission. Most of the agitators used today in DDs have been around for 20 years or more, largely unchanged except for Sears' continual efforts to improve the Dual Action while keeping the old versions for lower line models.
I think Whirlpool wanted to create less turbulence and splash and more 'flow'. The BD Surgilators were especially good at creating splash, etc. Gordon | ||
| Post# 422145 , Reply# 5 3/12/2010 at 10:30 (5,151 days old) by rickr (.) | ||
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| Post# 422146 , Reply# 6 3/12/2010 at 10:34 (5,151 days old) by rickr (.) | ||
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The set with the purple gel in the control panels
I love this set! Great dryer, and wonderful washer too. CLICK HERE TO GO TO rickr's LINK | ||
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Post# 422151 , Reply# 7 3/12/2010 at 10:57 (5,151 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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DUAL ACTION AGITATORS
The current DAAs are the best thing that ever happened to agitator washers. They allow larger loads to be washed with less water give better roll over better cleaning all with less clothing damage and wear. Consumers also love the new DAAs I never hear customers saying I wish this washer had an agitator like my old washer. Don't get me wrong on this as I have over 200 hundred older automatic washers and I love all the interesting agitator designs in all these machines but none of them will wash as large a load as well as the later DAAs will. Even the wonderful unimatic washers of which i have four of don't wash a very large load tangle badly and can cause serious clothing damage. I an old enough to remember customers who had unimatics and how much they hated them many of them didn't wear out people just got tired of fighting with them on laundry day and bought a new washer. This is one reason so many unimatics have been found in the corners of basements that still work, people knew they still worked and didn't throw then away but bought some new.
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| Post# 422186 , Reply# 9 3/12/2010 at 14:37 (5,151 days old) by DanManTN (Tennessee) | ||
DD with Surgilator
Here's my DD with a "Surgilator", although not an 80s version. Splish Splash!! Rollover is pretty bad on comforters, heavy loads. But a LOT more fun to watch than those corkscrew agitators!
CLICK HERE TO GO TO DanManTN's LINK | ||
| Post# 422188 , Reply# 10 3/12/2010 at 14:41 (5,151 days old) by DanManTN (Tennessee) | ||
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Post# 422215 , Reply# 11 3/12/2010 at 17:59 (5,151 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
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can cause serious clothing damage
buzzz, sorry John I have to disagree. In my ten years of using Unimatics I have never had any clothing damage, much less serious clothing damage and I use them generally weekly. Now as for the direct drive dual-action agitators, there is a reason they got the name shredmores around here ;-). I do think the original dual-action agitators were more gentle with the longer slower stroke. | ||
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Post# 422216 , Reply# 12 3/12/2010 at 18:20 (5,151 days old) by kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC) |
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On the DAA...
Robert -
Having both belt-drive and a 1993 Direct Drive with Dual-Action agitators, I fully agree with you that the belt-drive versions are more gentle. Having used DA equipped belt-drives for 27 years, and my DD for four (it usually sits stored), I would say both machines safely handle a proper load of clothes, and for us on this site, I think we all would agree that we are more likely to know how to "properly" load a machine. HOWEVER, so many people out there do horrible jobs loading laundry and never stop to consider the consequences, and I firmly believe that an over-loaded direct drive machine is going to beat the crud out of laundry, and the auger on the agitator is going to do nothing more than keep the clothes impailed on the fins. Over-loaded belt-drives don't perform the same way as an over-loaded DD. Maybe I have not seen badly overloaded machines, but a BD will take the whole load and shift it side to side with agitation, so the load is moving with the agitator. On the DD, the clothes just sit there and agitator fins spastically beat the lower half of the load while the rest goes nowhere. Maybe I'm wrong about this? (not going to go do a test to find out) :-) Gordon | ||
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Post# 422227 , Reply# 13 3/12/2010 at 19:02 (5,151 days old) by yogitunes (New Jersey) |
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The whole idea behind the BD DA was to wash a larger load and have turnover....the original concept and test was a packed test machine, with a clear tub, adding a black sock to a white load, and watch the actual turnover from the top of the washer to the bottom where the cleaning was actually taking place....only Kenmore had it, and designed it first, mainly because every agitator by them had only vanes at the bottom, if you wanted vigorous wash action on a REAL load (not a few pieces of clothing in a large tub of water) you had to wash HALF loads, at least Whirlpool gave you VANES up to the top, even if the machine was a EX-LARGE capacity, the vanes stretched with it, on a Kenmore or even a Maytag, they only increased the length of the agitator post....
That's why on almost every YOUTUBE video, they either wash a small load to show wash action or they fill the tub all the way up and add a few pieces to show "great" rollover... I know some of you people out there only have yourselves to wash for, and can't wait for a few pieces to build up, just to get your machine running, and theres others out there who have many members in a household, some with only one set of machines, and do you really think your gonna wash a few pieces at a time or get a whole load done, I love watching the machines operate as the next member, but theres days I have a million things to do, I have laundry EVERYDAY, and I have 3 sets hooked up, all going at the same time to keep up... Unimatics of any type are fun to watch, and so are Maytags and countless others, we have a ball with them, but if you had to wash several loads a day and juggle everything else in daily lives, some may consider a better perspective of getting a job done faster.....thats what the "average" public was looking for when the DA was introduced... just my opinion... | ||
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Post# 422236 , Reply# 14 3/12/2010 at 19:56 (5,151 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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WASHER AGITATION
My next door neighbor bought a WO-65 in 1953 and used that washer till 1965 when she bought a WP model LMA7800 a nice model with the magic clean filter. She didn't buy a clothes dryer till 1974 when she got a LGA7800 which is still working. Of corse as a little boy I was always hanging around my friends mothers while they were doing laundry or working in the kitchen. I must also say she one of the most perfect housewives the house yard and herself were always perfect I think she did her hair and put on makeup to come out to hang laundry. And I used to watch her untangling the baskets of wash and hang them on the line and sometimes she would say something about torn seems in her husbands long sleeve dress shirts that were tied into ropes or the amount of ironing she had to do on her clothes or that of her two daughters. I remember how thrilled she was with the new WP how the dark clothes came out with no lint and how much easer it was to iron things. The WP lasted till about 1975 when the bearings were shot and I completely rebuilt the machine and it lasted till 1985. I then sold her daughter one of the early super capacity DD which still in the house. When ever you tie clothes in a tight knot or rope you may have some fabric damage my favorite test load for tangling is always s load of 15-20 mens long sleeve dress shirts. On regular agitator washers a fast short stroke will do less damage to clothes than a long slow stroke where the agitator can hold on to the clothes and drag them through the water. GE FF washers always had a faster shorter stroke than many washers and MT went to the faster short stroke about 1990 as well. A DAA will not just force the clothes down into the agitator blades when clothes go down they are being forced up the out side of the . The greatest damage occurs in a regular non DAA washer where an overloaded tub of clothes can not circulate at all and the same clothes stay in contact with the agitator for the whole wash cycle.
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| Post# 422246 , Reply# 15 3/12/2010 at 20:46 (5,151 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY) | ||
Missing piece
A properly loaded Frigidaire is not going to damage anything. But it takes long practice and skill to do it. Once you understand the concept and master the skill of loading in quadrants by dropping the clothes straight in, and not arranging them in circular fashion, the items come out without a hitch. I just removed a load piece by piece from the 56. One pant leg of a pair of sweat pants was gently braided in three loops with the sleeve of a sweater, and they fell apart easily. The load was large. It was very difficult for me and took a long time to remember to load the Uni the right way. It's totally counter-intuitive, but once you do, the issue just passes away.
BUT, when heavy blankets, down comforters, coats, jackets, tarps, camping and other heavy outdoor articles have to be washed, there is nothing quite like the direct drive dual action WP/KM/KA agitator. Up down up down up down the clothing goes in a wonderful rhythm. It is a highly evolved, ultra-efficient species, achieved after decades of engineering and experimentation in agitator design. If you find it scary, just use the low speed. Like the pulsator, it has never damaged anything here. For me the DA is just as great a marvel as 3 ring agitator. | ||
| Post# 422256 , Reply# 16 3/12/2010 at 21:27 (5,151 days old) by a78jumper () | ||
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My mother had a 1958 Inglis Royale and a 1968 Inglis Sterling with the Surgilator and both foamed pretty heavily at least with the detergents of the day. | ||
| Post# 422260 , Reply# 17 3/12/2010 at 21:57 (5,151 days old) by chromecap () | ||
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I generally use my DD on the slower setting for anything that is not too bulky or heavy. Works good and the clothes get clean, what more could i really ask. Would like to have a Speed Queen though....just because it has that Surgilatoresque agi in it. | ||
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Post# 422267 , Reply# 18 3/12/2010 at 22:52 (5,151 days old) by Supersuds (Knoxville, Tenn.) |
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Why is the DD Dual Action discussion being limited to overloads?
Assuming, for the sake of argument, the DD machines are easier on clothes when they're overloaded -- and I really don't care because I don't do that --- you can't overlook the fact that a DD on regular speed will thrash a small/medium load within an inch of its life. Moreover, a lot of the DDs don't have a gentle cycle; they're just one-speed washers. I have to live with one of the DDs now and I was much happier with the 1985 belt-drive Imperial 70. Your mileage may vary, of course, but that's my experience. | ||
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Post# 422285 , Reply# 21 3/13/2010 at 03:09 (5,150 days old) by kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC) |
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Found this on YouTube
This is what I was talking about with clothes that just sit there in a Direct Drive washer. The washer is running on delicate speed, but the agitator is continually beating the clothes on the bottom and the top stuff is just getting wet and going nowhere.
CLICK HERE TO GO TO kenmoreguy64's LINK | ||
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Post# 422315 , Reply# 24 3/13/2010 at 10:30 (5,150 days old) by RevvinKevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land) |
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Rob, I disagree...
Over a year ago when I was getting my "collection" started, I had, for a brief time, a 1984 Kenmore 24" DD washer. This one was a single speed with 2 cycles and was an early one with a spin drain.
After playing with it for a while, I decided to wash a "real" load of clothes in it. As I'm "into" this, I know how to load a washer, so there was a good "normal" load in it, not over loaded but not under-loaded either. There was good roll over and everything was clean after. However, one of my shirts was damaged. It had a liner sewn inside the collar and lapel and after being washed in this machine, this liner was shredded and tangled in knots! Maybe it was the shock of being washed in a front loader all it's "life" to being thrown into a "shredmore"?? LOL That was the one and only time I washed any of my clothes in that machine. I listed it on Craigs List and sold it. I do actually have a newer DD washer, a Kenmore Elite Catalyst with the TA (triple action) agitator. It's a 3 speed machine, works well when it works (dam electronic control panel) and I like it a lot, though I have not washed any of my shirts in it. | ||
| Post# 422326 , Reply# 25 3/13/2010 at 11:46 (5,150 days old) by rll70sman (Hastings, Minnesota) | ||
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Interesting, Kevin, and sorry to hear about the damage to your clothes in a direct-drive machine. It'd be a treat to see one of the earliest direct drives with the spin drain. I've heard of them but never seen one. Everyone I knew that had Kenmores either still had a belt drive or bought a late model direct drive. | ||
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Post# 422331 , Reply# 26 3/13/2010 at 12:47 (5,150 days old) by joelippard (Hickory) |
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Since I've had one in the past
I'll put my 2 cents in. At the present mine is sitting over in a corner of the basement accompanied by the dryer that goes with it. I've known for a long time the "art" of loading properly. I can say that with my single speed DD that I never had anything get torn up but I did notice accelerated wear on certain items. As soon as I got my first Frigidaire I instantly noticed less lint on the clothing after washing, and they were brighter, and cleaner smelling.
Now, for Frigidaire Ropes... If you do not understand how to load a Frigidaire properly, you can certainly expect a poor outcome (as with any machine) but I'd have a hard time seeing how it could tear up much of anything, especially the older style agitators in the Unimatics. Quadrant style loading always produces a fine outcome for me, and a well balanced spin also. | ||
| Post# 422346 , Reply# 27 3/13/2010 at 14:53 (5,150 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA) | ||
Non-daa agitator
I have always preferred a regular old one piece agitator over the daa. IMO, if you are loading your machine such that an auger is required to turn the load over, you are overloading your machine. Clothes should have room to move around in the water in order to get clean. If clothing is packed into the machine, you are simply gonna shift soils from one garment to another eventually leading to dingy clothes.
Malcolm | ||
| Post# 422446 , Reply# 29 3/13/2010 at 22:59 (5,150 days old) by surgilator_68 (Maryland) | ||
Shredmores
We have one of the original spin drain DD machines that was used for Wpl training wayyyyyy back when. I'm sure John will elaborate.
As for shredding clothing I honestly have no idea what anyone is talking about. After our beloved 1971 Kenmore died in 1984 it was replaced by the original 24in DD machine. Although no one liked the machine, it never ruined a piece of clothing. That machine was then replaced by a triple dispenser DD mechanical control and that was replaced with a 3 speed electronic DD. Not once did any of those machines damage clothing. The only time I ever remember the gentle cycle being used was for the sheer curtains, which I still have and are over 40 years old and would not hesitate to wash in a DD today. If you load it properly and use the right wash times you won't have any problems. I can honestly say if we only had top loaders and there was no Speed Queen I would have a DD whirlpool, or rather Maytag. I do like the styling of the Maytag better. And if I couldn't have those I would have a GE. Now for calling them shredmores....grow up. Show some of the respect that you all demand for your Frigidaire machines. The DD is now a vintage machine, a piece of history and represents a huge step forward in design and technology. | ||
| Post# 422484 , Reply# 32 3/14/2010 at 11:05 (5,149 days old) by rll70sman (Hastings, Minnesota) | ||
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Well said, Jason! | ||
| Post# 422493 , Reply# 33 3/14/2010 at 12:01 (5,149 days old) by magic clean () | ||
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For some additional perspective, Whirlpool has manufactured well over 90 million direct-drive washers since their introduction in the early 1980's. | ||
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Post# 422534 , Reply# 34 3/14/2010 at 16:04 (5,149 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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AUTOMATIC WASHER PRODUCTION
Leslie do you have any idea how many BD WPs were built over there almost 40 yr. run 1947-1987 ?. MT ran there helical drive design from 1956-2006 50 years. GE ran the perforated basket FF design about 33 years 1961-1994. But it may be the that the DD is the most produced washer ever its certainly more than GE or MT.
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Post# 422823 , Reply# 36 3/15/2010 at 20:28 (5,148 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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MT HELICAL DRIVE WASHERS
The helical reefers to the spiral cut in the bottom of the agitator shaft. This was a very cleaver and durable way to shift from agitate to spin. Most washers that used a reversing motor used a helix spring { GE,WH,PHILCO,even Frigidare unimatic and multi- matic] these would eventually break and stop working. MT used this system from 1956-2006 it doesn't matter which transmission it has most parts of the drive line are the same.
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