Thread Number: 27712
why top loaders popular in the usa |
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Post# 424831   3/25/2010 at 15:43 (5,117 days old) by keiththomas ()   |   | |
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Hi how come front loaders did not catch on in the usa like in europe and the uk. After all Bendix introduced it to europe in the late 1940's |
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Post# 424855 , Reply# 1   3/25/2010 at 18:25 (5,117 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Bendix and westinghouse were the main companies that sold FL washers in the US. Both Bendix & westinghouse quickly developed a reputation as not being very good at cleaning, spinning and also over sudsing and leaking. As the better performing top loading washers were introduced people quickly forgot about the advantages of the F L design the rest is history.
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Post# 424870 , Reply# 2   3/25/2010 at 19:16 (5,117 days old) by toggleswitch2 ()   |   | |
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Top-loading washers were (and still are) faster, larger capacity, rinsed better and didn't need to be bolted down. They degrease and de-mud very well. |
Post# 424887 , Reply# 6   3/25/2010 at 21:52 (5,117 days old) by laundromat (Hilo, Hawaii)   |   | |
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1.Proctor and Gamble introduced detergents to replace soap. Tide's advertising used the term "Oceans of suds" on their packages "brainwashing" us that the more suds you see,the cleaner your clothes will get.So,unlike top loading automatics and wringer or spinner semi automatics,the factors of less water and high suds would not only have caused the suds to billow up so high they'd spew out of every nook and cranny of front loaders leaving a huge mess on the floor,but would also retard or slow down the tumble and spin speeds straining their motors and pumps causing them to need service.Where I grew up,the builder supplied Westinghouse Laundromat washers and dryers and,after just a few years of use,many of them would wind up either along side the owner's house or on the sidewalk for bulk pick up.
2.Most people do not like to bend over to load and unload their wash.Back then,unless you built a strong concrete base about 20"high off the floor to place your "Laundromat Twins" making it a breeze to load and unload them,you'd probably wind up buying some Done's Pills ,Ben Gay,Deep Heating Rub or make an appointment to go see your chiropractor.Around 1970-1972 ,Westinghouse introduced their Laundromat Space mates known as the "Higher dryer" and the "Taller Tumbler". They both had drawers to store all your detergents and other laundry aids and were reintroduced by Whirlpool around 1998.Frigidaire and Maytag both had risers to make loading and unloading a breeze but,Whirlpool was the first to include the drawer.Somehow,I'm remembering,a while ago,there was the advertisement here showing the Laundromat pair with the drawers. "You can be sure....if it's Westinghouse!" |
Post# 424891 , Reply# 7   3/25/2010 at 22:34 (5,117 days old) by laundromat (Hilo, Hawaii)   |   | |
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Front loaders hold more clothes per square inch than any top loading washer out. Hands down.You are able to wash bulky things like sleeping bags,down comforters,king size bedspreads,sheets and skirts,area rugs,stuffed animal toys,leather,wool,and pillows. all of which come out perfect and because they spin twice the speed of 97% of top loaders out today,they save money and time drying as well as lengthening the life of the fabrics.
Agitators tare and ware out the fabrics they wash.The best way to prove that is to wash a full load of bath towels in your top loader and the same exact size load in a front loader.When you dry each load,check the dryer's lint filter and you'll be shocked to realize that the load washed in the top loader had almost three times the lint of the load washed in the front loader. Why? because the top loading washer's agitator and its vigorous agitation wears out the fabric,especially cotton,and shortens the life of the fabric.even before the more vigorous agitation was introduced by Whirlpool and Sears Kenmore top loaders with their direct drive transmission and their "crewel Action Agitators",the previous top loading machines,including Frigidaire's Jet Action 1-18'S,also wore the fabrics out more so than the White Westinghouse and all other front loading,domestic and commercial washers.All of which stems from consumers who want to be able to overload their washers to the point of shortening their life spans. Most families who either let their kids do their own laundry,visit the laundromat or have some sort of maid service,replace their top loaders every 4 to 5 years!! That's caused mostly by either continual slamming of the top which breaks the lid switch and will not let the Whirlpool/Kenmore/Kitchenaid/Kirkland/Roper drain and spin or just from overloading the clothes so frequently,it kills the transmission and/or barrings.Most of the ones I see at our local dump are so far gone,they aren't worth repairing. for resale.Either the bodies are rusted out,the motors are shot or the barrings are ruined.Once in a blue moon, I'll find a few like the classic Maytags and the Frigemores I have found and are all working great after their repairs. It's really hard to overload the front loaders. For one thing,you won't be able to close the door.believe me,I do lots of wash here.Monday,I did 8 loads for Mingway,a local school teacher with 5 kids!Yesterday,I washed 12 loads for Dr.Linda Beech whom I visit in Waipeo (pronounced YPO)Valley and stay in a real tree house while there.Today,another customer came in with 10 loads to wash.The Speed queen top loaders went through so many overloads they died a horrific death. I replaced them with the front loading line from SQ but,the town is finally putting in sewers for the homes and businesses here and the Laundromat is closed until they finish in '12.. The only machine I can use is the Frigemore and it's taking all the loads with ease as well as the customers bragging about how much cleaner their clothes are getting as apposed to the older units.I charge $10/load wash,dry and fold. I supply the detergent,bleach,stain remover and fabric softener and,as long as I receive their wash before 9AM,I have it ready by 1PM.I usually use the 40 minute quick cycle and highest 1200 RPM spin but have also used the longer cycle and handwash for special fabrics.No top loading washer I ever owned or used got clothes as clean and nice smelling as the front loaders I have had through the years.Sorry guys but that includes the FRIGIDAIRES! |
Post# 424892 , Reply# 8   3/25/2010 at 22:37 (5,117 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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When Tide was first introduced in tests, housewives stayed away in droves because "detergents" did not produce the same froth as soaps.
For generations the standard advice given to housewives and anyone else who did laundry was that a good level of froth indicated excellent cleaning action. While this is true when one uses pure soaps for laundry, it is not so for detergents. Tide was soon changed to have increased frothing, and then it was off to the races! Sales of the product killed off P&G's popular laundry product "White Laundry Soap". Many design difficulties came with early front loaders that Amercian housewives weren't thrilled with. As discussed they required low sudsing detergents, which were not widely available, or trusted. Next early front loaders only tumbled in one direction. This lead to some machines leaving madame's wash in one long tangled mass. Indeed Westinghouse front loaders of the period were nicknamed "The Ropemaker", because one's laundry tended to emerge in one long tangled mass. Another problem is that Bendix controlled most if not all the patents for major parts of front loaders. This meant for another maker to produce such a machine they had to either spend dearly to redesign a machine that didn't infringe on Bendix's patents, or pay royalties. With wringers and other top loading washing machines, one could reuse wash and or rinse water. This was a big deal when water, especially hot water was in short supply. One can fill a top loader or wringer via a bucket if need be, but not a front loader. Reusing wash water was a very big deal, especially for housewives on farms or rural areas without plumbed hot and or cold water in general. |
Post# 424893 , Reply# 9   3/25/2010 at 22:45 (5,117 days old) by spankomatic (Ukiah,CA)   |   | |
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Post# 424898 , Reply# 10   3/25/2010 at 23:19 (5,117 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)   |   | |
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Though I can't speak for the masses, my '63 slant-front couldn't spin the bulky things mentioned above. If it was big, wet, and heavy, there was not enough pull on the segmented drive pulley to bring the belt up to spin speed--and the front-loaders of yore had abominable spin speeds.
I remember a set of acrylic fleece blankets that had to be heaved out and put in the 1-18 to spin and complete the cycle. Oy. The slant-fronts alleviated a lot of the loading/unloading PITA, but I do remember that towels, although washed beautifully, took a looooong time to dry. |
Post# 424911 , Reply# 12   3/26/2010 at 01:57 (5,116 days old) by Maytagbear (N.E. Ohio)   |   | |
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but not all, but I would say most, even some apartments, have water meters. My average water-sewer-storm water-and recycling bill is usually around 30.00 a month. Lawrence/Maytagbear |
Post# 424925 , Reply# 15   3/26/2010 at 04:58 (5,116 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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That's not totally true. We had neighbours who had an automatic toploader with an agitator. It could have been a British or an American machine, that I don't know. It looked a lot like a GE from the 50's but somehow I didn't think it was that same size but I could be mistaken. Frontloaders were the major choice here though.
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Post# 424928 , Reply# 16   3/26/2010 at 06:14 (5,116 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK)   |   | |
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to get the real answer - why did TLs not become popular in the UK
Paulinroyton has largely hit the nail on the head at least as far as space is concerned. I believe that few Americans will understand just how small kitchens in the vast majority of homes built in the 1920s & 1930s were - seriously kitchens of 7 or 8 ft long by 5ft wide were not uncommon, and we do not have, by and large, the roomy basements that Americans have. And even the majority of homes built in the 1950s & 1960s kitchens were not THAT much bigger It was not really until the mid 1970s that extensions to existing dwellings became something not out of the ordinary and it was this older housing stock which would have been the prime candidates (given that income levels would have been somewhat higher in those) for the purchase of automatic machines prior to this time, where there was just not the counter space to sacrifice to a TL machine. I am also surprised that we had no similar effective device such as was used with portable machines in the USA to all easy connection to the faucet, so there was always a tendancy for permament plumbing in the UK, and to keep cost down, generally adjacent to the kitchen sink But it is not quite so simple as this. In the very early days (late 1950s) of automatic machines the choices were almost exclusivly front loading, and Bendix at that. In 1959 they were joined by the English Liberator, again a front loader. But by 1963 (which I personally consider the starting point for automatics) there were as many toploaders as front loaders at that time especially in the key players Hoover/English Electric (FL) and Hotpoint/Servis (TL). There were other brands of course on either side of the fence but these are much smaller players and still, largely, cancel each other out FL vs TL. However, another factor I believe is that we in the UK did not have the same allegience to the centre mounted "post" agitator (in whatever form) that was the legacy of the pre WW2 wringer washer market in the USA. Certainly we had washing machines prior to WW2, and centre post agitator too, but they were not commonplace by any means. Flash forward 10 years or so to 1948 and the fledgling washing machine market takes a major change in direction with the launch of the Hoover 0307 wringer washer. Basic but cheap and easy to fit into our small kitchens - using a flat pulsator. The next compact size machine, the Servis, also used a flat pulsator. The compact Hotpoints, both with centre post agitators did not come along until after both of these machines and even only the smallest of these two, the Princess, could have been EASILY accomodated in the traditional British kitchen (for example under teh draining board) which was always the pig plus point for Hoover single tub machines. Bear in mind also that Hoover machines were very heavily marketed and also have the very significant reputation of the Hoover cleaner to cary them along. Rolling along to the end of the 1950s - wringer washers on the way out, twin tub well and truely on the way in. Servis & Hotpoint with centre post agitators, Hoover still with their pulsator ("Pulstaor Boiling Action", no "wishey washey action" here) and ROLLS also with pulsator. They were not around for long, they might not have been as good machines as Hoover/Hotpoint/Servis but their low price and "easy terms" made them a very popular first time washing machine choice - which Hoover even acknowledges in their advertising at that time. And Rolls machines were "badged" by quite a few other companies too. The point is that we, in the UK, had no pre-conception of a "proper" way for washing machines to operate, so their was no natural tendancy towards TL centre post machines. Flash forward another 10 years or so to 1968. The automatic market now has some real force behind it, Italian machines (particularly Indesit) are begninning to appear in greater numbers and cheaper that the TOL Hoover/Hotpoint/Servis twin tubs, Persil is now advertising Persil Automatic (the first MAINSTREAM low sudsing powder) increasing awareness (and possibly desire) of automatic machines when Hoover once again shakes up the market with its new "Automatic" (as opposed to TOL Keymatic) washing machine. An "named" automatic comparable in price (if not slightly cheaper) to twin tubs and although 27" wide it would fit under a counter top (and even in some cases draining board) of the traditional cramped British kitchen, which was becoming more "fitted" in any case, and those early twin tubs (and even some of the large wringer/washers) reaching the end of their working lives could easily be replaced by an automatic machine. By the early 1970s we had a multitude of front loading machines and only a couple of TLs - the Hotpoint (centre post agitator) and the Philips H axis top loading tumble wash machine. Note also that Hoover soon brought out a smaller cabinet 24"/60cm square, and both Hotpoint and Servis had machines of same capacity (9lb) even smaller, all the easier to fit in the cramped British kitchen, which would not be trying to fit in a fridge or fridge/freezer as well as a washing machine - items largely unthought of when they were designed. Al |
Post# 424936 , Reply# 18   3/26/2010 at 07:31 (5,116 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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Yes, they were rare, but not as rare as you might think. People who could afford it imported appliances from the USA in the fifties. I've seen several American stoves overhere in thriftstores and American fridges were imported too. The first automatic washer was a Bendix (so a frontloader) imported in 1947, but I met a guy who told me his parents had a General Electric washer and dryer in the fifties. BTW, both the Bendix and the General Electric set found their homes in Rotterdam so there might have been a store that imported white goods from the USA in Rotterdam.
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Post# 424941 , Reply# 19   3/26/2010 at 08:08 (5,116 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut)   |   | |
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Front loaders present the consumer with a smallish dark boring hole down towards the floor. Top loaders greet the consumer by opening its big mouth and revealing a large colorful plastic appendage that (we must assume)is powerful and does something marvelous.
I would bet most of the top loaders in the Fifties and Sixties were purchased by men for their wives. ...and, yes, I know, sometimes a top loader is just a top loader. |
Post# 424987 , Reply# 24   3/26/2010 at 13:44 (5,116 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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The neighbours that had the automatic toploader weren't very rich. He was a supervisor at a bus company, supervisor over the drivers. I don't think she had a job. There were eight kids. She did a lot of sewing work and they didn't have a car for a long time. Still they had that washing machine. Apparently they could afford it.
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Post# 425066 , Reply# 31   3/26/2010 at 23:47 (5,116 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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Post# 425764 , Reply# 32   3/30/2010 at 13:06 (5,112 days old) by Irishwashguy (Salem,Oregon.............A Capital City)   |   | |
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