Is Miele Fading Away?


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Thread Number: 28299
Is Miele Fading Away?

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Post# 432705 5/3/2010 at 08:22 (5,101 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)
Checkrate/Likes Saturday, I decided to advance my research for a Miele Dishwasher. I selected 3 retail locations closest to my house. The first location, I was told that they had Miele for two years and never sold a single unit. Nobody knew who Miele was and never asked about them. They have been out of the Miele business for over 6 months and they are still listed on the Miele website. The second location, was also no longer a Miele reseller. They had them but dropped them as they only sold 4 units in all the time they carried them. Sales guy said that eventually Miele will sell in the US the same way they sell in Canada. Such that the reseller will take the order but then hand everything over to Miele to deliver and install. At least, that is what he had heard right before they decided to drop Miele. The third place, they would be happy to order a machine for me. But they didn't have a unit on the floor to show and no literature. Directing me to the Miele website for pdf literature instead. To say the least, this doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling about purchasing a Miele machine at this point. Malcolm

Post# 432725 , Reply# 1 5/3/2010 at 10:10 (5,100 days old) by favorit ()
Checkrate/Likes Hi Malcom, Miele has average high prices so one has worth not to stock them (higher storage/stock costs) To give you a clue here in Italy the most displayed model on salesfloors is this cheapest one G 1022 SC that costs round 650 � That is less than several LG,Whirlpool,Electrolux,Hotpoint-Ariston and Candy TOL models, this fact is a strong selling point American market is very strange ..... average american people have lower requirements than europeans (here DW with plastic tubs don't exist, even the el cheapo machines have stainless tubs), but when it comes to Miele DW everyone craves for La Perla that cost thrice than that machine in the shot. Can't make up it .... Miele is very wortly in BOL model cause you get a stronger machine at the price of competitors TOL disposable models. Only same priced Bosch/Siemens machines are as good as Mieles, eg this MOL/TOL Bosch model :

Post# 432738 , Reply# 2 5/3/2010 at 10:39 (5,100 days old) by PassatDoc (Orange County, California)
Checkrate/Likes *Bosch has much wider market penetration* Lowes Hardware sells Bosch dishwashers, but not Miele. Bosch parts and repair services are easier to find vs. Miele. And an entry level Miele is priced similar to a TOL Bosch here. I know of several retailers that sell Miele DW, but they tend to be higher end stores for people doing expensive remodels rather than shopping for one replacement appliance: www.pacificsales.com/kitchen_bath... www.universal-akb.com/dishwashers... Miele dishwashers START at $1100 www.universal-akb.com/g2142wh.htm... and go up to $2200-2500 for LaPerla. When Bosch continuously tops the Consumer Reports ratings year after year, and $1100 will buy you their higher end models, people go with Bosch due to reputation. My Bosch DW (purchased 2001) cost $600. It has concealed door controls but otherwise is a basic model with PowerScrub Plus, Regular, and Quick Wash cycles, and only the basic soundproofing (52 or 54 decibels, I believe). It has never had a service call and gets everything clean on Regular wash, even dried on oatmeal. When it goes and can't be repaired, I'd replace it with a similar model which now might cost closer to $700. PS to favorit re: stainless steel tubs. People over here think it's a luxury item to have stainless steel tubs, their mindset is "a plastic tub won't break"---which is true, but it ignores the fact that a stainless steel tub helps water to evaporate off the dishes (and condense on the steel tub), which allows models like Bosch to be built without heated drying. The typical consumer here sees it as a cosmetic upgrade rather than one that is functional. For that reason, you can buy $300 dishwashers here with plastic tubs. They are noisy but they work, but you usually can't get by with Economy (no-heat) drying, because of the lack of a steel tub. When I first bought the Bosch DW, my parents were asking "why are you buying a $1400 DW?" and my reply was, "Because it's a $600 DW, same price as a basic KitchenAid" (which they have). They associated Bosch with Miele-level prices. Bosch figured out correctly that the market for $600-700 dishwashers was larger than the market for $1500 dishwashers. That is, you can convince people to pay $600-700 instead of $300-400 if quality is good. So they stole part of the market from KitchenAid, which was considered to be the leading quality brand in USA prior to wide availability of European brands. By the way, my Bosch was made here in USA, not in Germany. Mieles are made in Germany which may explain the added costs due to labor and freight charges. Another factor here is whether you can get a machine repaired. No problem with US brands, and Bosch is common enough that many repair services can fix a Bosch. If you have an ASKO or Miele, you are probably in luck in a major city, but in a rural area, you may have to fix it yourself if no repair services are nearby. As mrb627 pointed out, some of the stores he visited had never heard of Miele dishwashers. Finally, Miele has an odd form of distribution over here. In addition to being sold through some higher end appliance stores (like the links I posted), in some cases they are also sold by small stores that are Miele-only---people may tend to stay away from small stores because they fear the store may go out of business (compared to buying from a major chain like Sears or Best Buy or Lowes). Miele vacuums are sold this way: you never see them in major appliance stores, you buy them in small local shops like in Europe....this sort of distribution to us seems a little odd (unless you have visited Europe). There are three vacuum stores in my area that sell and service Miele vacuums. The prices are all identical because if Miele discovers that a store is selling at a discount, their permission to sell Miele will be discontinued. Persil is sold in USA through an exclusive contract with Miele, which is why it costs $50 a box in USA. And why I bring home boxes of Persil or equivalent from European trips, much to the amazement of European friends (if they had to pay $50 for their Persil, they would understand). My "souvenir shopping" is nearly always done at a supermarket, not in stores that cater to tourists, so I can bring home specialty foods and Persil. This sometimes creates payment problems because many European markets do not accept non-EU credit cards, their system is not set up to verify them. Tourist stores DO accept non-EU credit cards, they have to in order to survive, but they pay a higher commission than stores that accept only EU cards. I remember Europe being years behind USA in the transition from cash to credit cards, in particular a visit in 1989 to Cologne's largest bookstore (Mayerisch) and they accepted only CASH. Then in the 80's and 90's, you could use credit cards everywhere, but now I see a change to EU-only verification systems, particularly in places where tourists don't normally shop (supermarkets, etc.). A shopkeeper in the main square of Aachen explained this to me. I asked her why her store took my credit card while I could not use it in a market, and she explained she paid a higher commission to be in the world-wide verification system, whereas the markets are in an EU-only system because they pay lower commissions (and have few customers outside the EU). The shopkeeper said she had to be in the worldwide system to survive, since most of her customers were tourists. I saw the same system in rural Sweden last fall. All of the stores selling textiles or crystal (Kosta Boda, etc.) accepted my credit cards, but they wouldn't work at the supermarket. I have found that usually American Express works in markets more than non-EU MasterCard or VISA, but even then I run into problems, and I have to remember to carry cash. I rented a car on that Swedish trip, and was unable to use any credit card (AmEx, VISA, or MC) at any gas station over the course of a week. The locals' cards worked, mine did not. ps I don't always agree with Consumer Reports evaluations, but many people who aren't well informed will use it as a buying guide. CR evaluates current cleaning ability and price, but cannot test long-term durability with its testing program. They may put their machines through a rigorous testing schedule, so their cleaning ability recommendations may be valid, but they don't test machines for ten years to see which ones hold up and which ones don't last.

Post# 432746 , Reply# 3 5/3/2010 at 11:15 (5,100 days old) by rayjay (Carteret, New Jersey)
Checkrate/Likes *Miele Locations* Malcolm............... You are just going to have to come up to NJ. We have a beautifull showroom there or all the appliances. And on certain Thursdays of the month, you can see all the cooking appliances demonstrated and have dinner there, table lines, wine and all. We had Shrimp ALfredo, Filet mignon, salmon ceasar salad and dessert and coffee. And even do a load of wash while we were eating dinner They let customers bring in a load of lauddry to try out their Model W4840 which is hooked up along with the dryer. Come on up..... I will be happy to take you there. The La Perla dishwasher is fantastic. Ray

Post# 432747 , Reply# 4 5/3/2010 at 11:16 (5,100 days old) by favorit ()
Checkrate/Likes *Stainless tub* Jim, the stainless tub has very little to do with the hidden heating element. Stainless tubs appeared in early seventies, people was tired of enamel that chipped and rusted ... we had stainless tub dishwashers with exposed heating elements for almost two decades. The first machine with a hidden heating element was the Philips ADG 66X series in mid/late eighties. Five years later the new owner (Whirlpool Europe, who acquired Philips whitegoods dep) made a BOL version with a polyprophilene tub. Guess it disappeared within six months as it has been a market flop To give you a clue, today the cheapest fully integrated DW is a IGNIS (whirlpool) @ 199 �, a true el cheapo machine, yet it has a stainless tub What you wrote about Bosch/Siemens in the US is so true (they don't feel Miele as a competitor on your market) to the point they don't feel the need to sell there machines with the mielesque cutlery tray

Post# 432750 , Reply# 5 5/3/2010 at 11:23 (5,100 days old) by PassatDoc (Orange County, California)
Checkrate/Likes What I meant about stainless steel is that it allows effective, nonheated drying. Of course, my Bosch DW has a heating element (not exposed) to heat water to proper temperature. But evaporative drying doesn't work very well with a plastic tub. I agree that the old enamel tubs used to chip, etc., but plastic tubs don't chip, nor do they generally break or wear out. But in order to dry properly, they need the heating element turned on. Stainless steel tubs allow (if the water is hot enough) the moisture to evaporate off the dishes and condense on the tub sides, without turning on the heating element during drying (of course it's on during the final rinse, to achieve the correct rinse temperature). Plastic tubs are durable, but the difference between steel and plastic is more than cosmetic or durability. My previous old GE DW with plastic tub had an "Energy Save" switch that shut off the heating elements, but the dishes were never very dry. I used to open the door and let things dry off overnight---basically, dishes were still wet, and I used the DW as a two level drying rack!! I agree with you about no third rack on US Bosch models: they feel they don't need to compete with Miele because the market for $600-1000 DW's is larger than the market for $1000-2500 DW's.

Post# 432770 , Reply# 6 5/3/2010 at 12:54 (5,100 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)
Checkrate/Likes I think that most Americans want a machine that just does the job. No more, no less. Hence the popularity of BOL GE, Maytag and Admiral and the likes. The only people who really would like a Miele are people who are knowledgable about the brand and quality. It seems that Miele does next to no advertising over here, so there is not that much brand awareness of the general public. Plus most Americans bulk when they see that a Miele DW may put them back $2300.(USD) or so. This also limits the Miele brand to more or less the carriage trade.

Post# 432828 , Reply# 7 5/3/2010 at 17:08 (5,100 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)
Checkrate/Likes *Local Dealer* The one local dealer I spoke with that seemed very knowledgable about the brands I mentioned said that they have sold 10 times more Asko dishwashers than Miele. Plus, there is an Asko showroom less than 10 miles from me that has all there machines connected an operational. I mentioned the XXL laundry equipment. He did not even want to discuss it. Just a huge mistake on Asko's part having another company build for them. With several sets being purchased back by Asko. He indirectly mentioned a true Asko version soming soon. The sad thing is I am really interested in the Miele Excella dishwasher, but if I cannot put my hands on one, I wont buy it. Malcolm

Post# 432831 , Reply# 8 5/3/2010 at 17:23 (5,100 days old) by PeterH770 (Marietta, GA)
Checkrate/Likes I know that many high-end design firms here in ATL went belly up with the recession (along with all unfinished subdivisions). The dealer in Midtown moved into a smaller storefront, and I think they primarily deal vacuums.

Post# 432857 , Reply# 9 5/3/2010 at 19:55 (5,100 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)
Checkrate/Likes *Midtown* The dealer in midtown only had the w48XX series machines and the w3035 set on the floor operational. The only dishwasher they had on the floor was the professional series. That was almost 2 years ago that I was down there researching the Little Giants. I ended up going to the Miele dealership in Boca Raton FL when I was down for the Xmas Holiday's. They acted like they didn't know what the Little Giant set was. When I explained that it was part of the Professional line, they said none of their showrooms would have them on the sales floor. So I gave up on the Little Giants.

Post# 432892 , Reply# 10 5/3/2010 at 21:35 (5,100 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There�s a Lady on Stage)
Checkrate/Likes *Showroom Display Models* Could be wrong, but don't think MieleUSA gives dealers any of those machines, they must lay out some funds. Considering how slow Miele sales could be in some areas, who could blame a store for not wanting to tie up floor real estate and capital? MieleUSA has a decent enough distribution and network of repair persons if one lives in a major urban area, or at least one with enough high worth persons that make the thing worth it for some dealer, otherwise you are on your own. Miele also has some of the most outrageous call out charges, and their spare parts aren't cheap either. As Miele refuses to take a page from Bosch's book and open a North American plant, we have to pay the cost of importing to these shores. Also since Miele USA has everthing locked up, it is a captive market. One can walk into most any appliance repair store in the UK or EU and purchase Miele spares right off the shelf at decent enough prices. As for plastic tubbed dishwashers not being able to dry without the heater engaged, I don't know about that. My Frigidare portable has been going strong for almost ten years and probably have used the "heated dry" function less than ten times. Dishes always are dry the next morning long as everything is loaded properly. Oh there may be the odd water on top of a cup or glass, but everything else is dry. Only time one had a problem was when in a fit of "green" started to use Ecover rinse aid. Darn stuff didn't get anything done no matter how high the rinse aid dispenser dial was turned up. Switched back to Jet Dry, and that is exactly what happens.

Post# 433049 , Reply# 11 5/4/2010 at 12:50 (5,099 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)
Checkrate/Likes Is the Miele dealer at the corner of Piedmont and Cheshire Bridge still in business? They were very knowledgeable and eager to discuss their washers when I went in many years ago on a trip home.

Post# 433074 , Reply# 12 5/4/2010 at 15:15 (5,099 days old) by PeterH770 (Marietta, GA)
Checkrate/Likes They are still in business, but moved to a smaller location up Cheshire Bridge at the corner of Falkner (by the Jungle and the Heretic clubs). They don't display appliances in the window and appear to be focusing on vacuums.

Post# 433133 , Reply# 13 5/4/2010 at 20:40 (5,099 days old) by retropia ()
Checkrate/Likes *Euro dishwasher questions* So, is the theory behind a stainless steel tub and no heated-dry that the hot water makes the stainless tub hot, and thus the radiant heat off the tub is what makes the dishes dry? Are there no Miele or Bosch dishwashers that have heated dry? Is it true that Euro dishwashers do not have hard food disposers? They have little filter cups that collect food debris? I understand that fewer gadgets use less energy, but it seems like a step backwards in performance and convenience.

Post# 433137 , Reply# 14 5/4/2010 at 21:18 (5,099 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)
Checkrate/Likes Hi Doug, In the last 10 years, its only BOL Euro stuff that Might have a heating element to dry. Everything else uses condensation against the tub, or fans to exchange the air in the tub with the air outside, thus cooling it down and causing the moisture to condense against the tub. Euro Dishwashers also have approx 55-65degC (130F-150F) rinses. The dishes are usually as hot as those comming out of a machine with heated dry. My Miele and Bosch have no hard food disposer, I scrape, but vegetable and meat scraps still go into the dishwasher, along with carbonised fats, biscuit dough, etc. The Miele flushes most things down the drain, I check the filter once a month and rinse at that time. The Bosch filter is entirely self cleaning, I've removed it a few times, but am yet to need to clean anything out of it. Unless you're dropping half a steak in there or Large food scraps its never an issue. The filter is designed to do two things, 1) prevent particles being circulated through the wash, 2) prevent particles that are too large for the pump from blocking it. Otherwise they are openish at the bottom to allow the particles to drain away with the wash water.

Post# 433156 , Reply# 15 5/4/2010 at 23:10 (5,099 days old) by favorit ()
Checkrate/Likes *a Miele with exposed heating element* Doug, the commercial model G 7856 has very fast wash cycles (round 10 minutes) with optional drying step (further 10 mins). Two downsides - it draws round 7000 or 8000 W - its price is round 3330 � (twice than a La Perla....) CLICK HERE TO GO TO favorit's LINK

Post# 433159 , Reply# 16 5/4/2010 at 23:32 (5,099 days old) by retropia ()
Checkrate/Likes *If I am understanding correctly* The Miele and Bosch dishwashers DO have heating elements, but they are used to heat the water to a temperature hotter than what is typically produced by a home's hot water heater. Then what happens is that the extra-hot dishes from the extra-hot water cause the moisture to evaporate off the dishes, then it condenses on the stainless tub and drains away. Is that more or less correct? Is the air-exchange fan common, or is it only featured on the top-of-the-line models? That commercial model sounds nice -- wash AND dry in only 20 minutes? At that price, though, it should also put away the clean dishes and clean the countertops.

Post# 433162 , Reply# 17 5/5/2010 at 00:15 (5,099 days old) by favorit ()
Checkrate/Likes Doug, yes that's right ... after the last rinse drain you can't ever think to handle dishes without scalding yourself Residential mieles have a concealed element (it is a coil winded up on the outlet hose of the wash pump- check the shot in the next link) while semi commercial G 8000 series and true commercial G 7000 series do have an exposed element like american dishwashers (and as every european residential DW was until mid eighties) What Nathan wrote about the air exchange was right about previous G 600 and G 800 series. Current series don't exchange air with the outside = no steam/moist exits the tub. They have an air cooled heat exchanger (same as condenser dryers but smaller, it's under the sump). A double shaft blower recirculates the air inside the tub through the heat exchanger with one fan, while the other fan cools down the heat exchanger with room air. Also Whirlpool Europe and Electrolux TOL models work this way. Bosch/Siemens dry differently : they have a flat water tank sticked outside of the stainless tub. In the middle of the drying step, this tank fills with cold water and cools down the stainless tub to enhance condensation. That's why Bosch dry better with a cold fill hookup. You're right that miele is darn dear ... but you have to consider it is not meant for a residential usage rather for small restaurans or hospitals. In my town hospital (public, italian state is the owner) all division thermodisinfecting DWs are Mieles, as also surgery tools washers and lab glass washers. I point out "public" cause public usually goes cheap. I guess they have gone miele cause it's is cheaper in long term cost ratings (less servicing required and so on..) CLICK HERE TO GO TO favorit's LINK

Post# 433164 , Reply# 18 5/5/2010 at 00:20 (5,099 days old) by favorit ()
Checkrate/Likes *Bauknecht / Whirlpool Europe heating element* I guess it gives a better clue of a concealed element consisting of a electrico coil winded upon a hose

Post# 433261 , Reply# 19 5/5/2010 at 09:01 (5,099 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)
Checkrate/Likes *Miele* Is big here in the Boston area, earthling took me to play in the showroom, WE need to do that again Paolo!

Post# 433312 , Reply# 20 5/5/2010 at 12:24 (5,098 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)
Checkrate/Likes *A Couple More Dealers* OK. I plan to visit a couple more dealers this weekend. Distinctive Kitchen Appliances 2000 Cheshire Bridge Road Atlanta, GA -and- The Cook's Warehouse 4062 Peachtree Road Atlanta, GA If anyone has any information on these dealers that might be helpful, please let me know. Malcolm

Post# 433410 , Reply# 21 5/5/2010 at 22:45 (5,098 days old) by retropia ()
Checkrate/Likes *Drying styles* I'm learning a lot! Another question ... between current models of Miele and Bosch/Siemens, which dries better? I would guess Miele; even though it no longer has a direct air exchange with outside air, it at least has moving air inside the tub. I'd guess the moving air aids evaporation. Also ... do any of these dry plastics well? Since plastics don't retain heat like glass, ceramics or metal, I'm guessing the extra-hot water doesn't do much to dry plastics. A friend with an older Bosch said when he ran his dishwasher in the evening, the plastics usually weren't dry until the next morning. This wasn't a problem for him. For me, though, it would mean hand-drying (eek!) the plastics if I wanted to unload the dishwasher before going to bed.

Post# 433441 , Reply# 22 5/6/2010 at 04:59 (5,098 days old) by favorit ()
Checkrate/Likes BSH dry as well as mieles provided they are hooked to cold water line. Lately in Europe BSH has released some models with two fill hoses (like your washers) The hot water hose is used for washing and rinsing, the cold water one feeds the condenser while drying. Miele drying system is not affected by hot fill or cold fill so there's no need of the double hose How to have dry plastics from these DW 1) open the door (crack opened) once the cycle is ended. 2) change rinse aid .... use this one, it works even if you forgot about the door

Post# 433443 , Reply# 23 5/6/2010 at 05:52 (5,098 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)
Checkrate/Likes Ah yes, flash drying. It happens with commercial dishwashers when the stuff emerges after the 180F final rinse if a good rinse agent is used. Many owners of 19 series KAs resorted to this after the final rinse of the cycles lengthened by water heating instead of waiting for the non-heated dry to take up more of their time. What an abrupt descent into insanity the 19 series was. Peter, thanks for the update on the Miele shop.

Post# 433471 , Reply# 24 5/6/2010 at 11:41 (5,097 days old) by favorit ()
Checkrate/Likes *It is not a true flash drying* water has a lower temp (140-150�F) and after the last rinse drain there is round 25-30 minutes of fan/heat exchanger action. After that, the load is no more scalding hot. Commercial Mieles (both tank and fresh water models) have the true flash drying (last rinse @ 180�F)

Post# 433766 , Reply# 25 5/7/2010 at 19:13 (5,096 days old) by earthling177 (Boston, MA)
Checkrate/Likes Malcolm: from what I've seen, it's a two-way thing -- Miele is picky about dealers, they want people to have all the support they can get, and sometimes, when clients complain about the dealers to Miele, they can lose the account and then they badmouth Miele. Having used Miele products, I can see that they are not for everyone. They tend to be very well built and with thoughtful features, but they were built for European people who have different needs and standards. If your needs and standards happen to align with them, you'll love the products... on the other hand, if your needs and standards don't align with the appliances, you may hate them -- I've seen people complain about way too many things (like for example, some weird dishes either don't fit on the racks or take a lot of space -- that happens to other machines too, not all dishwashers fit every single dish perfectly, duh) that wouldn't go noticed on any appliance that was on the two-hundred bucks builder special range, but once you bought the TOL couple-thousand bucks, people expect the moon, a pony and a grand piano too. Needless to say, it's hard to get that. Also, with Miele in particular, I find that people say "oh, it's all the same and same quality, don't buy the 2,500 bucks TOL, get the BOL and you'll be fine" -- you won't. It's not just the build quality, dear, it's the whole package. While I don't advocate that people should get the TOL just for the heck of it, I do think that they should actually look at the products and think. Will you be miffed if the cycles always take 2 hours? Then you may want a cycle for lightly soiled dishes and another quick (30 min) cycle to refresh stuff during parties. People are used to "all I need is a rinse-and-hold, a regular and a pots-n-pans cycle", but with Euro-style dishwashers you do tend to use the different cycles more -- American-made machines tend to have very similar cycles because they want to top the charts for Consumer Reports, which tend to test dishes that were soiled and dried overnight with the Regular cycle; Euro-style machines have a light soiled cycle for dishes that were just taken from the table and run right now, a regular cycle to run at the end of the day when you were collecting the dishes for the day, then a Heavy cycle and a Pots-n-Pans cycle, which are progressively more intensive. If you are one of those people who'll scream "everything used to come clean in the regular cycle with my old such-and-such machine" without noticing that your old machine took 12 gallons per cycle and did a wash-rinse-rinse-wash-rinse-rinse cycle (which is essentially Pots-n-Pans now), you'll be disappointed. Miele and Bosch, more so than most other manufacturers, have several different racks, as the machines approach TOL, dishes that wouldn't fit or take too much space on the BOL racks will fit just fine in the more expensive machines. You can fit an awful lot more stuff in the TOL than in the BOL Mieles and Boschs. But make no mistake, more money doesn't mean you'll love it more -- I know way too many people who absolutely hate the silverware tray on the newest machines -- make sure that your silverware either fits those spacers or that you're OK with replacing your silverware, there's very little room for compromise there. Also, some of the MOL Mieles have a silverware tray that doesn't split and the TOL ones split. There are people who love one and hate the other and you'll have to decide for yourself. If you don't think you'll fill the tray every time, the one that splits will let your remove the smaller part and then you can add very large bowls and tall stem glasses on that side of the rack, but people who use a lot of silverware tend to like the one that doesn't split. Also be aware of the fact that most largish things like spatulas, ladles etc will need to go in the other racks, so you'll end up using the folding racks for that, probably, because it's unlikely they'll fit in the silverware tray. So, as you see, it's no accident that in some places Miele has bothered to build showrooms where there'll be trained people who can answer your questions and suggest alternative ways of doing things that will work better for you. Most stores would have a problem with people who bought and then returned a 2500-buck dishwasher, for example, and they want you to get it right the first time if possible. Most people would spend a couple of months getting used to a new way of loading their new dishwasher if they are in the 300-600 dollar range, but they get huffy if they have to relearn how to load a new high-end dw. But the ones that are patient enough more often than not love their new machines (Miele or not) and claim they feel like they should have done that sooner. Just take your time looking at the several different brands/models etc and think about the pros and cons. And I can't stress this enough: bring several of your dishes, both common and weird-shaped ones and try the different machines on the showroom. People who were all set to get one brand or another or a specific model often end up getting something else so their dishes will fit and they are usually the ones that don't regret their purchase, people I've seen going around with the "they're all the same, what's on sale this week?" attitude are usually the ones that regret their purchases. Not, mind you, that I think we in this crowd want to spend as little time as possible in the stores choosing appliances... ;-)

Post# 433767 , Reply# 26 5/7/2010 at 19:14 (5,096 days old) by earthling177 (Boston, MA)
Checkrate/Likes Jon said: "Miele is big here in the Boston area, earthling took me to play in the showroom, WE need to do that again Paolo!" We sure need to do that -- I was going to go a few months ago but heard that they were remodeling the place, we should check on that and see if they're done and what's news with it.

Post# 433845 , Reply# 27 5/8/2010 at 04:00 (5,096 days old) by favorit ()
Checkrate/Likes *Paulo* Well said, that's the key point Many Americans ignore we had energy crysis in mid seventies (the so called "austerity") That's why european appliances started the energy saving path since those times. 12 gallons DWs here disappeared in mid eighties, when the average machines used 6-7 gallons

Post# 433956 , Reply# 28 5/8/2010 at 15:00 (5,095 days old) by PassatDoc (Orange County, California)
Checkrate/Likes *update on Miele distribution via small retailers* I posted an update on this in the "Super" section: www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/T... CLICK HERE TO GO TO PassatDoc's LINK

Post# 434056 , Reply# 29 5/9/2010 at 07:10 (5,095 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)
Checkrate/Likes *Miele FOUND!* Well, I found my Miele yesterday. Drove all the way to Acworth. Purchased the Miele Excella II in black. Dealership will call me with eta on delivery on Monday. If anyone is interested, they have a floor model LaPerla in stainless for a reduced price. Malcolm

Post# 434668 , Reply# 30 5/11/2010 at 16:30 (5,092 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)
Checkrate/Likes *Miele on the Way!* Well, I got word this afternoon that my Miele Excella should be in by the end of the week. Plan to take delivery early next week. Malcolm

Post# 434680 , Reply# 31 5/11/2010 at 17:08 (5,092 days old) by retropia ()
Checkrate/Likes *Congrats!* Let us know how you like it.

Post# 434706 , Reply# 32 5/11/2010 at 18:59 (5,092 days old) by favorit ()
Checkrate/Likes *Congrats Malcolm* Basically it's a La Perla without touch controls. Just wondering where Miele USA marketing dept has learned to load pots ....... maybe they were former Whirlpool employees, so they guessed also Miele has the power clean module ?? ;-)

Post# 435036 , Reply# 33 5/13/2010 at 08:04 (5,091 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)
Checkrate/Likes *Pots and Pans* I'm not sure what is going on with the pot on the lower rack in the picture above. It would seem that the open space in the front right quadrant of the lower basket would be a better spot to lay that thing down in. I'm sure loading this machine will be night and day from loading the Bosch that I have now. Malcolm

Post# 435057 , Reply# 34 5/13/2010 at 09:32 (5,091 days old) by PassatDoc (Orange County, California)
Checkrate/Likes *my Bosch loads ok* I wish it had the split cutlery basket for more flexibility. Given that my DW is a basic Integra design (only three cycles, basic racks) I can't really complain. Tines are fairly wide apart, so its capacity is lower than high end racks, on the other hand everything washes up nice and clean, maybe due to the wide spaces between tines!! A side-hugging KA-style cutlery basket--to save space in the middle of the lower rack-- would be nice, but ah well. I got superb cleaning and a high-end feature (controls hidden in door edge) for $599. Nine years later, works great and no service problems, ever. Favorit, not sure why the large pot is loaded like that, but there is a strong probability they were making pasta!! Unfortunately we cannot determine from the photograph what type of sauce they used. If I had to choose again, I might trade Integra design for more features and just get a model with front panel controls. Bosch charges over $100 more for comparable models in their Integra line. For the price of a basic Integra, you can get an Evolution mid-range machine with more options and better racks. Actually, the three cycles on my current DW (PowerSCrubPlus, Normal, Quick Wash) meet my needs, but it would be nice to have better insulation/lower dB, better racks, and maybe their Eco cycle for light loads to save water and energy.

Post# 435075 , Reply# 35 5/13/2010 at 12:10 (5,090 days old) by rayjay (Carteret, New Jersey)
Checkrate/Likes Malcolm. Congrats. Let us know how you like it. I too have heard complaints about the loading from two of our friends that have one. The Excela is an excellent choice. I was told in the Miele showroom in Princenton, NJ that this is only one step down from the La Perla. The Excela does almost everything that the La Perla does.

Post# 435096 , Reply# 36 5/13/2010 at 14:02 (5,090 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)
Checkrate/Likes *LaPerlla* I would have easily ordered the LaPerla but it only comes in stainless. I needed black, otherwise I would have been on the road to replace all appliances with stainless to match. And that is not in the cards... Counting the hours till it is delivered. Malcolm

Post# 435100 , Reply# 37 5/13/2010 at 15:18 (5,090 days old) by rayjay (Carteret, New Jersey)
Checkrate/Likes *La Perla II* Malcolm, I could be wrong, but the check the Mieleusa website. I think....maybe it does come in black? As I said I could be wrong. let me know Ray

Post# 435172 , Reply# 38 5/13/2010 at 20:36 (5,090 days old) by passatdoc (Orange County, California)
Checkrate/Likes As far as I know, LaPerla is not sold in pre-finished black in USA. One version of it does accept custom panels, so one could fit a black panel to that model at additional cost. The link below shows the model, and a black panel can be added, at a cost of over $200. CLICK HERE TO GO TO passatdoc's LINK

Post# 435184 , Reply# 39 5/13/2010 at 21:25 (5,090 days old) by Neptuneguy27 (Baltimore,MD)
Checkrate/Likes *Door Panels* You can indeed order your La Perla with a black, white, or stainless steel panel but as it was said before, you do have to pay extra for them. I purchased mine with a stainless steel panel. You are going to love your Miele Dishwasher! Chris

Post# 437831 , Reply# 40 5/27/2010 at 12:10 (5,076 days old) by Hunter (Colorado)
Checkrate/Likes *I don't have a Miele dishwasher,* but I did have an Asko. It did after SIX YEARS. (I expected more like 20 :) ). I think I had high voltage and it was that which did it in. I do, however, have a Miele oven. WOW! I've never seen something cook so good. I have nothing but good things to say about it. (It had been a demo model in a kitchen appliance store -- it lacks a lot of the electronic "Mastercook" stuff which is exactly the way I wanted it. I'm thrilled, especially since I paid 20% of the retail for a "new" one!) Hunter

Post# 437977 , Reply# 41 5/28/2010 at 02:00 (5,076 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)
Checkrate/Likes We have the split silverware basket in our Maytag. It can be used split or put together as one big one. It really is versatile, you can put it anywhere you have space. And the silverware always comes out perfectly clean.

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