Thread Number: 28318
Sanitizing Laundry Without Chlorine Bleach |
[Down to Last] |
Post# 433129   5/4/2010 at 20:16 (5,077 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
1    
I've been wondering the last few days what methods can help sanitize laundry without using chlorine bleach.
Overall, I am not paranoid about germs. With a lot of laundry, I figure if it comes clean, it's probably good enough. But some things I am concerned about. Hand towels, for example--I want my hands cleaner after being washed and dried than before washing! Plus there is the first wash for new thrift shop finds--who knows where the item was a month ago? Chlorine bleach is the obvious answer, but--as we all know--it's not a choice for colors. So I'm left wondering what to do for colored items. Raise water temperature? At the temperatures where sanitizing apparently takes place would also be hard on colors. Add something to the wash water? That seems viable--but it leaves me wondering what. So far, I've heard claims that oxygen bleach (OxiClean type and liquid jug), ammonia, PineSol, and vinegar might work. Others claim these won't work. And some of these might potentially be harmful. Some say oxygen bleach could fade colors, and vinegar could harm the washer. Using the dryer is another possible option, since I've heard that can help. Of course, I could replace everything--like towels--I'm concerned about with a white equivalent that could tolerate chlorine bleach. I'm tempted, although I like my current collection of towels--almost all are actually made in the US, rather than Pakistan or India or China like most (all?) new towels. |
|
Post# 433151 , Reply# 2   5/4/2010 at 22:17 (5,077 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
1    
If you dry clothes thoroughly in a dryer, you have little to be concerned with.
But since you asked....here's a relatively new product (at least for the home consumer): a sanitizing fabric softener! CLICK HERE TO GO TO Frigilux's LINK |
Post# 433160 , Reply# 4   5/4/2010 at 23:40 (5,077 days old) by CircleW (NE Cincinnati OH area)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
I have used this upon occasion on items that have come in contact with dirty water (drain backup), or have developed a sour smell. Soak for 10-15 mins. Can't remember for sure, but think I used one oz. per gallon of water. |
Post# 433161 , Reply# 5   5/4/2010 at 23:49 (5,077 days old) by vintagesearch ()   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
i use lysol or mistolin in measured amounts extra rinse and air dry i have had no problems or odors.... |
Post# 433175 , Reply# 7   5/5/2010 at 01:02 (5,077 days old) by favorit ()   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
... one can add Napisan to the main wash detergent : Powder and tabs are sodium percarbonate, liquid is oxygen bleach based on peroxyde. CLICK HERE TO GO TO favorit's LINK |
Post# 433217 , Reply# 9   5/5/2010 at 05:57 (5,076 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
Thank you.
I suspect an awful lot of people whose washers look like something out of a swamp inside are only not suffering from more problems because of the sun and the clothes dryer. When rebuilding the WestySlantFront two years ago, we found that that wonderful thermostatically driven "timer" tripped when the clothes were not below 145 and not above 152F. Guess they knew what they were doing back then. I wonder how warm modern automatic dryers leave the clothes? |
Post# 433222 , Reply# 10   5/5/2010 at 06:44 (5,076 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
One reason early housekeeping manuals advised against coloured bed and bath linens was such things couldn't be "boil washed" and or subjected to chlorine bleach. So welcome to their world.
Activated oxygen bleach such as the new Tide series will do some santising, as well sodium percarbonate or perborte (oxygen bleach), but am here to tell you that such chemicals with even warm but surely with hot water will probably change the colour of all but the most colourfast items over time. My vintage Cannon terrycloth bath times in regular use are much lighter shade of blue than the surplus stock that hasn't been used nor laundered yet. Since my washing routine includes either Persil or another detergent along with a good dose of oxygen bleach, that is the only answer. Truthfully, proper laundering but more so machine drying will render your bath linens sanitised enough. You could always iron your kitchen towels (a mangle is great for this), which would kill off any remaining germs. Quite honestly unless someone in your home as come down with or been exposed to a serious infectious disease, the above is really all that is required. Lysol is a phenol disinfectant, and that substance is highly toxic. I should want to rinse many, many times after using it for laundry to rid textiles not only of the scent, but any lingering traces of chemicals. Quats are a good sanitiser or disinfectant, however are best used in the rinse cycle. Commercial laundry chemical supplies have been selling sanitising "fabric softeners" for years. They are mainly used for cloth diapers, towels and bath linens in commercial use (health spas, health clubs, diaper services, etc). If you have connections in Germany,Persil now has a version, sadly it is not sold outside of the EU. |
Post# 433228 , Reply# 11   5/5/2010 at 07:09 (5,076 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
Thanks for all the answers to date!
One thing I'm wondering about is whether the oxygen-type bleaches have to be "activated." I'm under the (perhaps incorrect) impression that activated oxygen bleaches are relatively rare in the US market. I am not worried about "perfect" color protection. Some fading seems inevitable. I just don't want it to dramatically occur in one wash! As for machine loading, I'm hoping I've been OK to date, although I'm thinking I'll try more precise calculations. (Thankfully, I think I actually have the washer's owner's manual which gives load sizes!) Historically, I've been careful not overload--which may be why I survived 10 years with Shredmore with few problems. |
Post# 433235 , Reply# 12   5/5/2010 at 07:37 (5,076 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
Yes, Laundress, we do have it here. The list of warnings is also impressive. I think Henkel have quite properly decided that it is too risky to sell in markets with too high levels of illiteracy or where the volume of water used for washing would mandate very high levels.
I send or bring tons of the stuff (well, kilos) every year to family, my honey and friends in the 'States. They all, however, actually read. Persil over here always warns in their advertising that "Vollwaschmittel" means it will bleach the (expletive deleted) out of your colors now-a-days. Back in the old days, we all learned that it was OK to use a Vollwaschmittel at 40C because the oxygen bleach wasn't activated. Now that you can get it going below 30C, a lot of people had to relearn. I pre-soaked a load of filthy jeans overnight (motorcycle chain dirty) in Megaperls, using the 40C soak and agitate in my machine. When they came out of the wash the next day, they were enormously lighter. The grease and dirt was gone, though. Are you familiar with our "Sagrotan" here in Europe? |
Post# 433243 , Reply# 13   5/5/2010 at 07:59 (5,076 days old) by Bernina (Chicago)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
It's especially toxic to cats. |
Post# 433249 , Reply# 14   5/5/2010 at 08:25 (5,076 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
|
Post# 433301 , Reply# 16   5/5/2010 at 11:47 (5,076 days old) by MattL (Flushing, MI)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
I have a rock hard box of Lysol Sanitizer sitting in the closet somewhere. Always liked the product. |
Post# 434060 , Reply# 17   5/9/2010 at 07:28 (5,072 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
But a phenol disenfectant none the less is Amphyl, and it can be used for sanitising laundry.
Most any commercial cleaning supply or such store sells Amphyl, you can also often find it online, including fleaBay. CLICK HERE TO GO TO Launderess's LINK |
Post# 434151 , Reply# 21   5/9/2010 at 16:27 (5,072 days old) by aquarius1984 (Planet earth)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
I was always taught one has to remove soil BEFORE disinfecting. The soils will cancel out the disinfectant before it has chance to do its job.
Wash in detergent first with complete sets of rinses then a quick wash in disinfectant. You also say about not using the original one in the machine for the lingering smell. I actually rather like the smell of it. Often buy some to pour into my bathwater especially in the summer months after a hard days gardening or doing jobs. So what if the scent lingers, if you like it it wont bother or harm you to use it in the machine on things its safe for. Saying that im also keen on Wrights Coal Tar soap and use that often enough. Just because you dont like the smell dosnt mean others dont. |
Post# 434162 , Reply# 22   5/9/2010 at 17:30 (5,072 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
Is a quat compound similar to what is in Miele Hygiene and other laundry rinses/fabric softeners that claim to sanitise wash.
Quats are preferred over phenol for laundry because they do not have that carbolic scent, which is the hallmark of phenol. Indeed quats do not have a scent at all, which makes them good for laundry products because they do not bring anything to the party that might conflict with another perfume. Quats are also used to preserve a wide variety of consumer products from shampoos to body washes to face creams, and so forth from spoiling. |
Post# 434187 , Reply# 23   5/9/2010 at 20:02 (5,072 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
The Standard Dettol bottle here suggests adding to rinse water to disinfect, I havent found the smell to linger, I'll occaisionally add a couple of capfulls. The smell doesnt bother me, I had half a capful to my shaving water each day and wash my face in the stuff. |
Post# 434250 , Reply# 25   5/10/2010 at 02:05 (5,071 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
It is a classic of laboratory policy, never mind medical procedures or even the banal task of diaper pails that you:
1) Remove as much of the large debris and dirt and ick first. 2) Clean oils, fats and anything sticky as best possible next. 3) Sanitize or reduce microbial load to the greatest extent possible last. Otherwise, the microbes might not be reached by the disinfectant. They might have time and environmental trigger to encapsulate themselves, spore, etc. It's just good science. On a related topic, I wash my wooden kitchen utensils in the dishwasher (cue the usual discussion). Stuff too big, gets rubbed with salt. Stuff which will fit, at all, gets zapped for 30 seconds in the microwave because even LCB only sanitizes wooden boards down a few tenths of a millimetre. The microwave will zap the beasts all the way down - and a good chop on a board or savage cut with a bread knife will go down further than the LCB can reach. Now, of course, I suppose if one had a sufficiently strong ionizing source (as in sealed, sterile medical supplies) one could say it's fine to leave the soil.... |
Post# 434296 , Reply# 27   5/10/2010 at 08:40 (5,071 days old) by logixx (Germany)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
|
Post# 434316 , Reply# 28   5/10/2010 at 10:38 (5,071 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
I did not say that microwaves were ionizing.
I actually do know the difference between ionizing and non-ionizing radiation. I can also explain the difference between stochastic and deterministic relationships. Here is a rather well written note on the subject with link. Oh, I was wrong about one thing - it os 30 seconds or so for a sponge and 10 minutes for wooden boards. If you're serious about getting things clean, read this: From www.sciencenews.org/pages/sn_arch... The good news is that kitchen germs can usually be removed by some method of cleansing. On metal surfaces, Zottola says, detergent dissolves the food and microbial material. A good rubbing then forcibly evicts most of the squatters. A follow-up, sanitizing rinse--such as a solution of dilute bleach (hypochlorous acid)--will annihilate even the most tenacious hangers-on, he's found. To deter recolonization, the cleansed surfaces must stay dry. Wood requires a different sterilization regime, Zottola points out, because its organic building blocks will react with bleach, rendering the disinfectant unavailable for killing germs. As a result, cooks have had to be satisfied with just bathing their wooden cutting boards. In the January 1994 Journal of Food Protection, Cliver and his colleagues showed that it is possible, using soap and water, to hand scrub microbes from the surface of new or used wooden cutting boards and from new plastic ones. Plastic boards that bore the knife scars of use, however, proved resistant to decontamination by hand washing. Bacteria below the surface of a wooden board are untouched by hand scrubbing and can remain alive at least several hours. Even though at that location they can't contaminate other foods that may contact the board, it remains prudent to kill them, says Cliver, now at UC-Davis. In a pair of papers to be published in the Journal of Food Protection, Cliver and Paul K. Park report success in annihilating E. coli and Staphylococcus aureus with microwave heating. They contaminated wooden cutting boards with 1 billion colony-forming units per 25 square centimeters of surface and then cooked the boards on high heat in an 800-watt home microwave oven. After 10 minutes, a medium-sized board emerged bone dry--and free of live microbes both on and below the surface. Wetting the board speeded the killing, suggesting that the microbes probably boiled to death. The microwave can also disinfect other kitchen items. Sterilizing dry cellulose sponges took a mere 30 seconds, while wet sponges took 1 minute. Cotton dishrags required 30 seconds when dry but 3 minutes when wet. No amount of microwaving disinfected plastic boards. That's not surprising, Cliver notes, since their surfaces never achieved cell-killing temperatures. However, studies by others have shown that the normal cycle in a dishwasher can sterilize even well-used plastic boards. Whether you use wood or plastic cutting boards becomes unimportant at home if you are into cleaning and sanitizing--as all cooks should be, Batt argues. Many people, however, aren't. A study published last year by scientists at the Food and Drug Administration found that 26 percent of U.S. consumers don't bother to clean cutting boards after using them for raw meat or chicken. URL: able2know.org/topic/44420-1... CLICK HERE TO GO TO panthera's LINK |
Post# 434352 , Reply# 29   5/10/2010 at 13:45 (5,071 days old) by logixx (Germany)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
Ten minutes in the microwave? Wouldn't that be hard on the microwave? Our manual says to not use the oven without something in it and I don't consider a dry piece of wood to be something that can effectively absorb the radiation - like a glass of water, for example. Someone I know - no it wasn't me ;) - put a cup of hair removal wax into the microwave and, since the wax didn't really absorb the radiation, the whole oven got really! warm after only five minutes at 800 watts. Wouldn't a dry chopping board cause a similar reaction?
|
Post# 434355 , Reply# 30   5/10/2010 at 14:04 (5,071 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
Nein.
Fast alles, welches wir "glauben" über Mikrowellenherde zu "wissen" basiert entweder auf längst überholte oder schlicht falsche Annahmen. Es ist genügend "Last" im Holz vorhanden, auf jeden Fall, da ich es seit Jahren mache und - bis her - sind weder meine deutsche noch meine Amerikanische (auch nicht aus dem Jahre 1972) kaputt gegangen. Fette und Wasser sind es, hauptsächlich, welche durch Mikrowellen schwingen und Reibungshitze erzeugen. Dies fürht schnell dazu, dass die Eiweißmoleküle klümpen und, das war's denn für die Baziloosen, wie meine Uhrgroßtante sie nannten. |
Post# 434565 , Reply# 32   5/11/2010 at 06:19 (5,070 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
|
Post# 434571 , Reply# 34   5/11/2010 at 06:34 (5,070 days old) by logixx (Germany)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
|
Post# 973709 , Reply# 36   12/14/2017 at 23:00 (2,296 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
First one would need to find a pine cleaning product that is registered as a disinfectant. That is the thing contains enough pine oil to actually do the job.
Having said this cannot recommend using a pine disinfectant in the wash. Your laundry will have that whiff for days, as will the machine. If you *must* use a sanitizer in wash one recommends going with Dettol, Persil or any of the other quat based sanitizers for laundry. If expense is an issue become pally with someone who can order the stuff from commercial laundry suppliers. |
Post# 973714 , Reply# 37   12/14/2017 at 23:42 (2,296 days old) by wft2800 (Leatherhead, Surrey)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
Can one not just use a bit of pure undiluted pine oil in the wash? What about vinegar? |
Post# 973813 , Reply# 39   12/15/2017 at 14:30 (2,295 days old) by wft2800 (Leatherhead, Surrey)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
I do have two cats, but surely if one keeps the pine oil away from them, there'd be no problem? I'd really appreciate advice on dosage quantities. |
Post# 973814 , Reply# 40   12/15/2017 at 14:32 (2,295 days old) by johnrk (BP TX)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
or with your vet. I've avoided it for decades; it's nothing new. |
Post# 973842 , Reply# 41   12/15/2017 at 17:31 (2,295 days old) by cuffs054 (MONTICELLO, GA)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
John, I'm using the Lysol Disinfec but I'm not sure I see and thing different in load. Are you noticing any results? |
Post# 973857 , Reply# 43   12/15/2017 at 18:13 (2,295 days old) by cuffs054 (MONTICELLO, GA)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
John that is interesting, mine has a very noticeable smell, nice but strong and that's with going for a second rinse. My original ? related to the fact that I don't notice any difference in load w or wo beside the smell. |
Post# 973859 , Reply# 44   12/15/2017 at 18:23 (2,295 days old) by johnrk (BP TX)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
It's there to sanitize, not add scent. You may be using more than me, I put it to the bottom line on the agitator cup for fabric softener on this SQ 432. |
Post# 973872 , Reply# 45   12/15/2017 at 19:36 (2,295 days old) by Norgeway (mocksville n c )   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
Washcloths dishtowels and my diapers were boiled then washed she kept a pail just for boiling she rinsed everything then boiled it because she was not having germs in her frigidaire. Lol |
Post# 973873 , Reply# 46   12/15/2017 at 19:42 (2,295 days old) by johnrk (BP TX)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
disinfected anything. Unfortunately, it doesn't. If it did we wouldn't have had autoclaves in my hospital work... |
Post# 973954 , Reply# 47   12/16/2017 at 08:37 (2,294 days old) by Imperial70 (MA USA)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
hmmmm, boiling doesn't disinfect anything. hmmmmmm. |
Post# 973955 , Reply# 48   12/16/2017 at 08:42 (2,294 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
3    
|
Post# 973987 , Reply# 50   12/16/2017 at 10:49 (2,294 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
     
There's quite a few of us who allow some Tennessee windage to our places of domicile, real names, etc. Once burned, twice shy. It's probably best to accept that. One of the things I learned from a dear friend who was an emergency room doctor in Munich for many years: 1) Antisepsis is a goal to be sought, but never achieved. 2) You remove the gross dirt first, then you go for the pathogens.
She is one of the very few Germans I know who believes in chlorine based disinfectants. She doesn't for one second think 40º washing (that's degrees science, not the weird stuff the Americans use) is adequate for a family with seven children and she tumble drys underclothes, bedclothes, towels, Waschlappen, etc. at high heat.
Big fan of Sagrotan, too - and the US equivalent to that is Lysol. Also a big fan of letting little kids play in the dirt.
Personally, I will continue to run the dishwasher on the NSF approved 'sanitize' cycle (it's not really, but it's all about knocking the microbe load down as low as possible), using chlorine bleach and high tumble heat. I get rid of the gross dirt with TSP (the horror of it all, and, gosh, that STTP most are using? Guess what it turned into a while back...) and real hot water, not the 40º stuff US manufacturers want us to call 'hot' today. |
Post# 974015 , Reply# 51   12/16/2017 at 12:15 (2,294 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
1    
high dryer heat helps sanitize. |
Post# 974126 , Reply# 52   12/16/2017 at 21:43 (2,294 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
4    
Anyone who has studied bacteriology or microbiology and or perhaps any of the health professions (physician, nurse, etc...) already knows but will pass along (again); there is a difference between sanitization, sterilization and disinfecting.
Hospital linens for beds and bathing ordinarily are sanitized via the laundering process. Things meant for the operating room and or need to be nearly free of pathogens head over to CSS (Central Sterile Supply) or wherever and will be further treated by autoclaving in order to render them sterile. When it comes to cleaning if you read the directions for nearly all registered disinfectants they give two versions. One is to clean and perhaps sanitize. The other is for disinfection. Latter most always involves first cleaning the surface of gross filth, then applying a solution at proper strength and allow to remain in contact for a period of time. www.differencebetween.info/differ... www.diffen.com/difference/Disinf... Studies going back to the early part of last century proved laundering in hot water (and soap back then), drying and ironing rendered most laundry sanitized enough for all general purposes. Dropping ironing and adding tumble drying at high heat can replace ironing. It is the heat one wants in the end.... Simple act of washing laundry between chemicals, pH and multiple changes of water either deactivates germs and or sends them down the drain. They still may be alive at that point but that isn't the issue, it is removal from textiles we are after. In situations where something more is required, such as the wash from a person infected with a contagious disease, something more can be done. Things like use of different chemicals and or higher wash/drying temperatures. |
Post# 974155 , Reply# 53   12/17/2017 at 00:55 (2,294 days old) by Imperial70 (MA USA)   |   | |
Checkrate/Likes
 
4    
Laundress, You are the voice of reason and clarification. Thank you. |