Thread Number: 30254
The New Frigidaires: Home At Last!
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Post# 458828   8/24/2010 at 00:15 (4,965 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

frigilux's profile picture
...and two days earlier than I had expected! I received a phone call at work from my Frigidaire dealer. He said "If you can run home and unlock your house, I'll have them in by 3:00." The phone had probably not even hit the cradle before I had grabbed my keys and was out the door.

They are a handsome pair, and at the last moment I decided to say goodbye to the top-loader as well as the dryer and front-loader. He gave me another $100 off the pair, as the TL'er is in perfect shape and only occasionally used. He'll resell it in the 'used' corner of his store.

The good news: It holds an amazing amount of clothes, and it cleans like a champ.

I should say it cleans like a champ much to my surprise, as the water temp never went higher than 110 degrees, even with options that used the heater. I was really disappointed until I saw the results, which were awesome.

The first load I washed was sheets, using the Whitest Whites cycle. It is amazing how little water there is in the tub---only about an inch at the bottom.

When you start a cycle, you hear water entering the dispenser for about 10 seconds, then a recirculating pump turns on and soapy water soaks the load. The first few minutes of the wash there is no water at all in the bottom of the tub. The clothes are fully saturated. Then it fills in a few more short bursts until there's about an inch of water at the bottom of the tub. Warm water---about 110 degrees--even when you select a hot wash. Sheets came out sparkling white.

Then, I washed a huge load of bath linens: Eleven 28" x 50" bath towels, ten 15" x 17" hand towels, and 10 wash rags (all white). I chose the Heavy Cycle and Stain Pretreat, as I'd cut myself shaving a couple of times last week, so there were some dried blood stains on the hand towels. As advertised, it filled with temp-controlled cold water, and then washed for 10 minutes, at which point the heater kicked in and it advanced to the wash cycle (no drain). To my utter shock, the water had heated to only about 110 degrees by the end of the wash cycle, even though I'd selected a hot wash.

However, I'd let it default to "Normal Soil", so on the next load (highly-stained kitchen whites plus some flour-sack dish towels which I used to wash an area of my concrete garage floor), I chose the Max Soil option, thinking it would heat the water to a higher temp with a longer wash. (It did not, by the way.) I added a Prewash (10 minutes in temp-controlled cold water, a drain and spin), then the Stain Pretreat, followed by 20 minutes of Steam. I used UK Persil Bio powder for both the prewash and wash, some Tri-Zyme in the wash and liquid chlorine bleach (which is dispensed during the first rinse.) I also opted for the extra (third) rinse. Total cycle time, about an hour and a half.

Steam Option: The washer drains and spins after the wash, then fills briefly, and tumbles for 20 minutes. I saw not one single wisp of steam anywhere in the tub. Again, disappointment. Just before the end of the steam routine, I opened the machine and the water temp was about 110, although the clothes felt somewhat warmer than the water. (The owner's manual says you may not see steam inside the washer, and that some steam may escape from a vent at the back of the washer. I saw nothing at all.)

At the end of the cycle, I pulled everything out and was astonished to find a large, old grease stain removed from a tablecloth, all stains completely removed from dish towels, chef's aprons, dish rags and bar mops, and the blackened garage floor towels all perfectly white. No chlorine smell.

I still can't explain how this was possible! I washed in much hotter water with my old front-loader, and it used far more water. The towels I used on the garage floor would have had tell-tale dark stains remaining on them with my old washer, using the same detergent and additives.

The only way I'll get a truly hot wash is to use the Sanitize cycle, apparently. I'll have to try that one on a load of whites later this week.

I also washed a big, heavy queen-sized comforter which fit easily into the machine without having to stuff it in.

The Max Fill option adds only a little extra water. Nothing to get excited about.

Somehow, this washer rinses well using very, very little water. I don't get it.

The 1300 rpm spin is awesome to watch!


Here are some pics. I'll try to get better ones later.




This post was last edited 08/24/2010 at 00:39



Post# 458829 , Reply# 1   8/24/2010 at 00:17 (4,965 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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The machine behaves very differently than my other front-loaders. It does a couple of brief, very slow spins to remove excess water. Then the pump shuts off, and it goes through a balancing protocol, during which it speeds up and slows down trying to get the load to balance perfectly. Then it zips up to about 400 rpms for a few seconds, stops, balances and goes into a stepped spin. The spins between the rinses step gradually up to about 600 rpms, much faster than my other washer. The pump turns on and off as needed during the spin.

Just for kicks, I did a Spin Only cycle after the comforter was done washing. The Bulky cycle has short spin, and I thought maybe I'd extract a significant amount of water with an extra spin. The pump didn't turn on 'til the machine was ramping down at the end of the 6-minute Spin Only. I guess it didn't sense a lot of water in the sump, so it stayed off.

The Energy Use tag: $10 per year with gas water heater; $12 with electric water heater.




This post was last edited 08/24/2010 at 00:48
Post# 458830 , Reply# 2   8/24/2010 at 00:18 (4,965 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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The baffles are quite small, and kind of curvy.

Post# 458831 , Reply# 3   8/24/2010 at 00:20 (4,965 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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Here is the cycle selector. Specialty cycles include Jeans, Pet Beds, Kids Wear, Stuffed Animals, Quick Sanitize, and some others that I can't recall at the moment.

Post# 458834 , Reply# 4   8/24/2010 at 00:39 (4,965 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

rp2813's profile picture
Interesting cycle selections. Very reminiscent of my Duet. I see it also has a "clean washer" cycle. Maybe Frigidaire is finally getting its act together.

Post# 458835 , Reply# 5   8/24/2010 at 01:46 (4,965 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        

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Great looking machines! Odd that it didn't heat the water more than 110. I don't understand that. If I use the sanitary cycle on my Duet, it gets so hot that the washer feels like a clothes dryer running on the outside........:(......Max fill uses little extra water.......That's what I was afraid of......The Bulky cycle probably uses more. Try using bulky cycle AND max fill at the same time.....Thanks for taking the time to post all of the info.

Post# 458838 , Reply# 6   8/24/2010 at 05:02 (4,964 days old) by logixx (Germany)        
YAY! Nice machines!

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Wow, 110°F - that warm by Euro standards. Wonder what the "warm" setting is, not to mention "Eco Friendly"...

Very interesting about the Steam Option. So it's like an add-on step to the main wash?

What about Allergy? I think you something like 140°F to destroy allergens. How hot does it get and how many rinses are "multiple rinses"?

Is there really a recirc pump or just an additional nozzle in the boot, which the washer uses to fill? I can't remember the manual mentioning a recirc pump - although it would be great.

Do you like the dryer? It's quite a bit bigger than your old one, isn't it?

AND: will there by videos some time later? ;-)

Alex


Post# 458842 , Reply# 7   8/24/2010 at 06:01 (4,964 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Congratulations and "very interesting". I guess what is important is the clean, dazzling, white results despite what all the water amount and water level police around here think!!!

Post# 458848 , Reply# 8   8/24/2010 at 06:37 (4,964 days old) by alr2903 (TN)        

Frigilux, very nice new machines. What made you turn in your indexing T/L? I sold ours to a friend after i found the MT's on craigslist. Like we always said the indexing was fun. In reality they were pretty anemic at washing a reg. load, and poor with a large load. arthur

Post# 458850 , Reply# 9   8/24/2010 at 06:59 (4,964 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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Alexander---There is definitely a recirculating pump. It turns on and off during the cycle, without having added any additional water. It runs for the first couple of minutes in the wash cycle, then again about 2/3 of the way through the wash. It also recirculates for a couple of minutes during the two rinses. There is so little water, that the recirculation is needed to saturate the load. Otherwise, it would take forever for the clothes in the center of a large load to get wet.

Mark---The Bulky cycle didn't seem to use much extra water, but the recirculating jet was on during more of the cycle. The comforter was totally saturated almost right away. I can understand people's complaints about bulky loads not getting wet in the middle 'til the end of the wash cycle if their machine uses little water and has no recirculation jet.

I'll try the Allergy option and the Sanitize cycle this week. They are supposed to heat the water to higher temps (152 degrees for Sanitize). I'm dumbfounded at how the machine got everything perfectly clean in warm water last night. It's so counterintuitive. As long as it cleans, rinses and extracts so well, I just need to let it do its thing and not think about it.

The huge load of towels was dry in 40 minutes last night. A load only about half that size took 70 minutes to dry after being spun and dried in my former pair.

Amazing.

The dryer's lint filter is much bigger and the mesh much finer than on my other dryer. It feels more like nylon fabric than a lint filter.

I tried the Steam Refresh on a cotton blend shirt and a 100% cotton pair of black Docker's that I wore to work yesterday. All the big wrinkles around the abdominal area of the pants were removed, and the shirt looks great, too. YAY!! I hate to iron pants, as they can get shiny and most of mine are pleated. I also hate to wash them every time I wear them just to get rid of the wrinkles, as they start to wear and fade at the seams. I put the shirt back in the closet and will wear the pants to work again, today. I threw them in before I got in the shower, then pulled them out 15 minutes later, completely dry, wrinkle-free and ready to wear. That, to me, is worth the price of admission. And I love having a 7.0 cu. ft. dryer drum.


Post# 458878 , Reply# 10   8/24/2010 at 10:08 (4,964 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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Thanks!

Good to know Electrolux is using its famous Jet System in USA now, too. I remember seeing some older videos on YouTube, where a Euro washer basically went into distribution and then sprayed the water into the drum, thus wetting the dry load instantly. Our old washer did not do this for the beginning of the wash but during the rinses: it would spray water into the drum as it was slowing down to saturate the clothes.

Here is an excerpt from NSF about the Allergy Option on NFS certified washers:

Q: What are the requirements to be certified to NSF Protocol P351?
A: The protocol specifies that washing machines must demonstrat the ability to kill dust mites and wash away a minimum of 95% of pet dander and dust mite allergen loadings in a common load of household laundry. Manufacturers may also choose to certify for removal claims for canine dander, cockroach allergen and birch pollen.
The wash water temperature is evaluated to determine its ability to kill dust mites. Published industry research has shown that dust mites are unable to survive in a water temperature of 55° Celsius (131° Fahrenheit), so the protocol requires that the wash cycle must be sustained at this temperature for at least three minutes.
NSF Protocol P351 also requires that the washing machine be designed to avoid accumulation of dirt and debris, be easily cleanable, and corrosion resistant.


Post# 458944 , Reply# 11   8/24/2010 at 16:51 (4,964 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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Arthur---I had planned to keep the Frigidaire top-loader, but at the last minute, I decided I probably wouldn't use it much, and I could open up some space in my cramped laundry room. When I saw how little water the new washer used, and how cool the "hot" water temp was, I almost called the dealer and told him to bring the top-loader back. But the cleaning results were outstanding, so no problem.

Post# 458951 , Reply# 12   8/24/2010 at 18:09 (4,964 days old) by PassatDoc (Orange County, California)        

Frigilux: if your "hot" wash temp is 110F, do you know what your hot water incoming water temp is? Does the machine appear to be using some sort of auto temp control to lower your wash temp down to 110F?

Post# 458957 , Reply# 13   8/24/2010 at 18:52 (4,964 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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Jim---I thought about that today. My water heater is set at 130 degrees, but if it sits idle all day (or overnight) the water at the tap can go as low as 110. The washer uses so little water that it may be filling with mostly cool water in the line. I have a sink in the laundry room, but the hot water pipe is separate from the one that fills the washer, so I don't think purging the line at the sink will help.

I'll have to check next time I run a "hot" load to see if any cold water is being mixed in during the fill. It fills in such small bursts that it's hard to tell.

The drain portions of the cycle are almost comically short---about 5-6 seconds and all the water is gone.

I'll pay more attention to the fill and try purging the sink line to see if that gets hotter water to the washer. Or I may just need to increase the water temp to 140-150 at the water heater.


Post# 458967 , Reply# 14   8/24/2010 at 20:26 (4,964 days old) by retropia ()        

It sounds like it is doing its job in giving you clean laundry, so that is the most important thing. With using so little water, are you cutting back on the amount of detergent you use?

-Doug


Post# 458978 , Reply# 15   8/24/2010 at 21:44 (4,964 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Gene

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it looks like the water is half way up the glass in the picture, is that a trick or is it actually half way??

Nice machines!


Post# 458979 , Reply# 16   8/24/2010 at 21:45 (4,964 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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Doug---I use the recommended amount, and I think the washer cleans well partly because the detergent is very concentrated in such a small amount of water. That's probably also why the first few minutes of the wash cycle uses a tiny amount of recirculated, soapy water to saturate the clothes.

Post# 459003 , Reply# 17   8/24/2010 at 23:53 (4,964 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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Jon---I noticed that, too. No, the water is certainly not halfway up the glass. The glass in the door slants inward, and I think that is creating an optical illusion.

Post# 459012 , Reply# 18   8/25/2010 at 01:07 (4,964 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Ages Ago Now

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Remember reading some sort of professional appliance design journal about water savings and H-Axis washing machines.


Upshot was that once water use goes below a certain amount, recirculation pumps become mandatory for proper laundering results.

When one thinks of how front loading washing machines work, it becomes clear why the above is required.

If there is not enough water to saturate textiles as they are lifted and dropped, then what water there is must be "forced" through the laundry somehow.


Post# 459039 , Reply# 19   8/25/2010 at 06:07 (4,963 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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I now understand why some people were disappointed with very low water use front-loaders that didn't have a recirculation jet. The super-concentrated detergent environment of the recirculation during first few minutes of the prewash or main wash reminds one of the Whirlpool top-loaders Catalyst cleaning system. The bonus of the front-loader's version is that agitation (tumbling, in this case) can also take place during the "catalyst" action.

The low water level really allows clothes to do the perfect lift-and-drop, too.

What I wasn't expecting: I washed a load of dress and summer shirts/pants/dress shorts last night, and decided to try using liquid Tide HE With Bleach Alternative, just to see how it would behave in the new machine. I have a couple of bottles of it to use up. I was pleasantly surprised to see relatively little bubble-action in the final (second) rinse. It's not as clean-rinsing as UK powdered Persil or SA8, but noticeably better than in my former washer. Maybe that machine's higher water level encouraged such tenacious suds when coupled with very soft water.

Clothes did not emerge from the washer feeling under-rinsed, nor was the scent of detergent prevalent. And ring-around-the-collar was removed from the shirts without the aid of Spray 'n' Wash stain stick, something that was always needed with my previous washer.

I will say that the default wash times for the Normal, Casual, and Heavy wash cycles are too brief. I've set the soil level for those cycles at Max, which adds six minutes to the wash time. I can see why Consumer Reports rated cleaning at only "Good" for the washer using the default times with their highly-stained test load. The Normal cycle also defaults to the Energy Saver mode, which uses even cooler water. I've cancelled that, as well.



Post# 459043 , Reply# 20   8/25/2010 at 06:25 (4,963 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        
New Frigidaire!

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Hi Eugene,
Thanks so much for the information. I am so surprised to hear that the new models have recirculation and I agree that is what they all need with very little water. As far as the spinning does it give good spins between the rinses and does it go into spins rather fast or take forever to balance. The horrible LG took forever to balance and that is what took so much time added. It would be nice if they made this into a combo.
Best Of Luck
Peter


Post# 459044 , Reply# 21   8/25/2010 at 06:32 (4,963 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Power Shower

mrb627's profile picture
I wonder how long it will be before the government mandates a recirculating pump in our showers. The basin will fill with 3 gallons of hot water and then recirculate it through the showerhead for 5 minutes. Then it will drain and give you four short cold sprays. When you step out of the shower, you will have to walk through a Dyson body dryer. No more towels.

Malcolm


Post# 459047 , Reply# 22   8/25/2010 at 07:21 (4,963 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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Peter---I really like the spins between rinses. They gradually wring out the excess suds/water, then ramp up to approx. 600 rpms. I believe this is part of why it rinses well with only two rinses. The balancing protocol is brief for the spins between washes/rinses, but the one for the final spin can take awhile. The longest so far is about 12 minutes. I'm learning to just walk away and let it do its thing. The pump shuts off during the balancing acts. In fact, the pump usually shuts off about a minute or two into the final spin, then kicks in again when it ramps down at the end. Energy-saving and pump-saving, as well.

Malcolm---Re: Showers; Don't give anyone any ideas!! You may be saying "You heard it here, first!" in a couple of years, LOL.


Post# 459052 , Reply# 23   8/25/2010 at 07:47 (4,963 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        

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Yes......The spinning between the rinses is GREAT! My duet spins on medium between rinses, then 1000 rpm on the last; though sometimes it doesn't quite make it to medium spin speed which I think is 600 rpm on some loads. I've never figured that out. I'm so AFRAID if anything ever goes wrong with my Duet that I KNOW I will be disappointed in the amount of water these 2010 and future model machines use since I've tweaked mine to use more water. I don't think you can tweak the newer front loaders. When I say "tweak" I'm not talking about a drastic increase, just a subtle increase with much more sloshing but not too much as to compromise cleaning. Unless I overlooked it, wait til you see the clean washer cycle. I'm sure it will be a trip to watch.

Post# 459053 , Reply# 24   8/25/2010 at 07:47 (4,963 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        
New Frigidaire!

peteski50's profile picture
Eugene can you get a third rinse as a option?


Post# 459057 , Reply# 25   8/25/2010 at 07:51 (4,963 days old) by askomiele (Belgium Ghent)        
Frigidaire vs Electrolux?

Is there any difference between this TOL and the Electolux touchwave?

About that shower thing... They have already thought about it over here ^^ but due to building requirements and health regulations those things won't be possible.


Post# 459059 , Reply# 26   8/25/2010 at 08:03 (4,963 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Sounds like a very similar cycle

jetcone's profile picture
to my new SQ. I upped the water level especially after Terry & Greg kept raveing about liquid tide and I saw its disastrous effects on FL'ers. The SQ burst spins up to 700 RPM's 4 times between washes and rinses. The pump shuts off during the bursts then starts up again and you can hear the water chugging down the drain pipe.
It must have a strong pump because I was taking the hose out to check the clarity of the rinse water and only partially inserted it back in the drain stand. Next wash it flew out and shot water all over the place just like the old Westy Slant fronts do!


Post# 459075 , Reply# 27   8/25/2010 at 09:29 (4,963 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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Peter---Yes, there is an extra (3rd) rinse option called Freshwater Rinse. I only use it when I add liquid chlorine bleach to a load, since it dispenses in the first rinse. Otherwise, I haven't found it necessary to use either the Max Fill option or the extra rinse in order to get good rinsing results.

Jon---I'm estimating the between-rinses spins at 600 on my machine. I'm not exactly sure how fast it goes. It looks roughly like the same speed as my toploader, which was 618 rpms. I don't think I'd raise the water level in the machine---even if I could---as it seems to be washing and rinsing very well where it's set. I'm afraid if I try to raise the level, I'll get sudsing issues in the rinse cycles with my hyper-soft water. I hope Speed Queen can get wider distribution, as in the old days when there were SQ dealers everywhere. Everyone at AW.ORG who owns one says they're built like tanks, and seem very happy with them.

Askomiele-- I don't know enough about the Electrolux line to comment on how close the Frigidaires are to them, but I'm guessing the wonderful changes to the new Frigidaire line were handed-down from the high-end Electrolux models.




This post was last edited 08/25/2010 at 11:08
Post# 459109 , Reply# 28   8/25/2010 at 11:41 (4,963 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
I think the only way to increase the water level is to lengthen the hose between the tub and the digital pressure sensor, which is what many washers seem to use these days.

As for purging the hot water line: I have the service manual - only five pages - attached. It actually is for the Electrolux washers, but since the IQ Touch and the Frigidaires basically look identical, I think it might just work on the Frigies as well.

Diagnostic Mode

Alex


Post# 459110 , Reply# 29   8/25/2010 at 11:49 (4,963 days old) by golittlesport (California)        
Congrats on your new arrivals

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handsome machines! glad you are happy with them.

Post# 460567 , Reply# 30   9/1/2010 at 12:00 (4,956 days old) by PassatDoc (Orange County, California)        

I remember reading Electrolux consumer reviews (Best Buy I think) and a number of reviewers wrote that the purchased it partly because it featured the reversible door, and a left-hinged door would not work in their installation situation. So it appears to be an exclusive feature among all US models. The new Frigidaires appear to offer just as good cleaning and possibly more water/energy efficiency, and almost as much capacity (bear mind mind, 3.5 cu ft was the largest Frigidaire until introduction of these new modesl) but people who need a door that hinges on the right will have to buy Electrolux.

Post# 460950 , Reply# 31   9/2/2010 at 22:21 (4,955 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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I mentioned earlier that when you choose the ADD STEAM option to a cycle, the washer drains/spins after the wash and fills to begin the 20-minute "steaming". I just found out, while washing a load of whites tonight using the HEAVY cycle, that the steam portion of the cycle is also considered the first rinse! The screen says ADDING STEAM for the first 15 minutes, then the recirculation pump kicks in and the message changes to RINSING. I had liquid chlorine bleach in the dispenser, and it dispensed in what was now the 2nd rinse. I'd chosen the FRESHWATER RINSE option, so there was one more rinse after the bleach had been dispensed.

This explains why, when I washed whites with the steam option a few days ago--- and having forgotten to add the extra FRESHWATER RINSE---I found the clothing had a noticeable bleach scent at the end of the cycle. The bleach had dispensed into the second (final) rinse of the cycle!

Having made this unsettling discovery tonight, I'm amazed at how little chlorine scent there was (I used almost 1/2 cup of bleach) after only one more rinse.

Ergo, if I want two rinses after the bleach has been dispensed, I should not use the ADD STEAM option. Or, I'll have to run a RINSE & SPIN cycle, afterward.




This post was last edited 09/02/2010 at 22:43
Post# 460955 , Reply# 32   9/2/2010 at 22:42 (4,955 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        
Frigidaire!

peteski50's profile picture
Eugene thanks for the information, seems like they have made a lot of changes. My mother has the GLTF2940FS for over 5 years and she Loves it. On that model you can get up to 4 rinses. Seems these energy savings are crazy. I am surprised that the instruction book doesnt say anything about this and also I see no documentation about recirculation that you spoke about. But most of all I assume you give the machine a thumbs up.
Thanks
Peter


Post# 460957 , Reply# 33   9/2/2010 at 22:47 (4,955 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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Peter---It has cleaned everything I've thrown at it without a problem, and I haven't been using the extra rinse (except when using chlorine bleach) or the MAX FILL options.

I'm just glad I figured out this "steam option as first rinse" business. It only matters if you've added liquid chlorine bleach to the dispenser.

The recirculation jet is awesome, and I'm sure it's what allows the machine to use so little water. I think the recirculation feature is the reason why these new machines are called the "Ready Wash" system. I read a few days ago that these four new Frigidaire models took the top four places in the Energy Star Efficiency Ratings.

I'd also love to know what the G-force is in that huge tub when it's spinning at 1300 rpm.


Post# 460958 , Reply# 34   9/2/2010 at 22:49 (4,955 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        
Frigidaire (adding bleach)!

peteski50's profile picture
Actually another way to add bleach is add it to the main wash dispenser with some water to flush it the last 5 to 7 minutes of the wash cycle.


Post# 461053 , Reply# 35   9/3/2010 at 08:35 (4,954 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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I'm not even sure that will work, Peter, as whatever I pour into the dispenser may sit in a sump until the recirculation pump kicks in. For instance, when the machine first begins to fill, most of the incoming water is routed to the dispenser, while a little is allowed to trickle in via the fill nozzle (this is not coming from the dispenser). After about 10-15 seconds of fill time, the water shuts off, the recirculation pump kicks in, and the soapy water is blown all over the load.

Every time a product is supposed to be dispensed, the recirculation pump is on--for pre-wash, wash, bleach (first rinse), and fabric softener (2nd rinse).

I'll try pouring water into the dispenser later in the wash cycle and see if it goes directly into the the tub or not.



Post# 461073 , Reply# 36   9/3/2010 at 11:42 (4,954 days old) by logixx (Germany)        

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Steam = 1st rinse. So that's why the manuals for both the Frigidaire and the E-Lux say that rinse water temperatures will be elevated when adding steam...

FWIW, the large Miele washer, with its .8 cu.ft. smaller tub has a G rating of 520 when spinning at 1300 rpm.


Post# 461722 , Reply# 37   9/6/2010 at 19:31 (4,951 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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Lawrence---Here's a full-length photo of the new set. I didn't get the pedestals, as I decided to use the top of the machines as a folding area. I've had the pair for a few weeks now, and they are performing flawlessly. Considering a new top-of-the-line LG washer is $1800, I feel I received good value for the dollar paying $1800 for these TOL units.

Post# 461830 , Reply# 38   9/7/2010 at 02:17 (4,951 days old) by aldspinboy (Philadelphia, Pa)        

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Eugene that's a very nice washer pair seems like your enjoying this washer does the recirculating water jet stays on the whole time it washes ?
Have you had to add any water or wish too?
How is the balancing act on this guy ?

Off topic...
How are your new babeies the cats...
Glad you got the washer.

Darren k.


Post# 461831 , Reply# 39   9/7/2010 at 03:33 (4,951 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

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Eugene, that is a great looking set. Glad that you are happy with them, I hope that you will continue to do so for many years.

Happy washing!

Louis


Post# 461848 , Reply# 40   9/7/2010 at 07:18 (4,950 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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Darren--- The recirculation jet is not on during the entire cycle. It's on the first few minutes of the wash, and again about 2/3 of the way through the wash. It's on during the first couple of minutes of the prewash and each rinse. I used the MAX FILL option once and it added only a little extra water. I haven't used it since. Everything is coming out perfectly clean and well-rinsed, so I have no desire to increase the water level.

I washed a huge load of highly-stained kitchen whites last night using the HEAVY cycle at max soil, plus a prewash and the stain-treat profile wash. I used 2 tablespoons UK Persil Bio powdered detergent for the prewash, 3 tablespoons Persil + 2 tablespoons of Tri-Zyme for the wash, and a 1/3 cup of liquid chlorine bleach (which is dispensed in the first rinse). Also used the extra (3rd rinse) option. Total cycle time was about 1 hour + 20 minutes. There were a lot of spaghetti sauce tomato + grease stains on the rags and bar mops, which were often not completely removed with my former washer. Everything came out spotlessly clean! I doubt I'll be using the anemic steam option anymore, as the machine cleans just as well without adding that 20-minute option to the cycle. And how it cleans so well with 110-degree "hot" water is beyond me.

The balancing protocol is quite brief for the first few spins. It is fussier for the final spin, which can take anywhere from 2 to 12 minutes. I've learned to just leave it alone and let it do its thing.

Korshka and Mouschi are great. They're growing like crazy, and (mercifully) moving out of the destroy-everything-we-come-in-contact-with manic kitten phase. Mouschi has already been spayed and had front claws removed. Korshka goes in to be neutered and have claws removed in October. They are adorable and love to snuggle on the couch with their human. It's fun to watch them practice their pouncing/hunting/playing skills on each other.

Louis---Thanks! They've proved themselves very adept at washing and drying. The final test will be reliability, which will be revealed over time, I guess.


Post# 461851 , Reply# 41   9/7/2010 at 07:59 (4,950 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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eugene, if you are "bothered" by the "hot" water of 110 degrees, why not use the allergen cycle to get at least 130 degrees?

Post# 461859 , Reply# 42   9/7/2010 at 09:14 (4,950 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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That is definitely an option, Bob, but it also adds about 27 minutes to the cycle. If things are coming clean in the 110 degree water, then I'm just going to let it be. There is always LCB in the white loads, so I'm not worried about sanitization.

I tried the full-length Sanitize cycle on a load of whites, but the wash portion alone is an hour long. I noticed my t-shirts and short white socks had little "pills" on them when they came out of the dryer. The items had been washed/bleached many, many times before, so they weren't new by any stretch of the imagination. I think it's just too hard on the clothes to tumble that long. I'll have to give the 1-hour "Quick Sanitize" cycle a try. I'm curious as to how it manages to cut 48 minutes off the length of the regular Sanitize cycle.


Post# 461862 , Reply# 43   9/7/2010 at 09:37 (4,950 days old) by Maytagbear (N.E. Ohio)        
Eugene-

Thank you for the snapshot! Good looking pair.


Now, are there kitten pictures up here somewhere?



Lawrence/Maytagbear


Post# 461978 , Reply# 44   9/7/2010 at 19:40 (4,950 days old) by 77Pat ()        

Thanks for the photos and information. I am currently shopping for a new washer/dryer and this has moved to the top of the list. I am currently considering a Frigidaire front load set (FAFS4272LW), a Whirlpool front load set (9250 or 9550), or a speed queen top loader. My uncle has an Electrolux front load set, which he is mostly happy with. His only reservations are that it uses so little water and that it was built in Mexico. But so far it has done the job and he is happy with it. My mom was just visiting his house and said that it actually makes doing laundry fun. I was also considering the new Maytag Bravos X/Whirlpool Cabrio models, but I am seeing so many mixed reviews (some say it does a good job/others say it is too hard on the clothes) I am deciding to stay away.

I was just looking at the Lowes website and notice two other Frigidaire models, LAFW7000LW/LAQG7000LW washer/dryer and LAFW8000LW/LAQG8000LW washer/dryer. I have just emailed Frigidaire to try to find out what the differences are, since they are priced a little lower. The on site comparison feature does not show really any difference. If they are the same, I would be able to buy the LAFW7000LW washer with the LAQE8000LW dryer for around $1300, which seems like a good deal.

It seems like choosing a washer/dryer is just picking a model you like and sticking to it. I have been researching and there are reviews from so many sides. Like people switching from Bravos to Duet and preferring it, others from Duet to Bravos. Some from one front load to another. And other swearing by traditional top loaders.


Post# 461983 , Reply# 45   9/7/2010 at 19:53 (4,950 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia)        
If things are coming clean in the 110 degree water, then I&#

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I'm amazed that is the 'Hot' temp....Here that would be considered warm (110f = 43c)...

BUT...

I have started to wash most things at 40c and nothing fails to come out clean on a short (68 minute total) wash with one of the following powders (and I never, ever use bleach)

Omomatic
Drivematic
Trimat for front loaders(Aldi)
Persil tablets (UK made and old stock...lovely smell)

If I use Surfmatic, I add a small amount of booster as it has no enzymes...

Try a similar load without the bleach and see how it goes...


Post# 461986 , Reply# 46   9/7/2010 at 19:58 (4,950 days old) by spiralator60 (Los Angeles)        
Questions for Frigilux

Eugene,

Congratulations on your new Frigidaires! You have mentioned about the recirculation jet coming on during the cycle. Is this something that is especially noisy or loud?

Also, how quiet are the washer and dryer while they are running?


Post# 462000 , Reply# 47   9/7/2010 at 20:29 (4,950 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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77Pat-- I believe the four new models are all designated as "Ready Clean System" machines. I think that means they use a recirculation jet during parts of the cycle. I believe the four new models also have a 4.4 cubic foot tub. I can't recommend the prior Affinity line (which has a horizontal row of rectangular buttons to choose options, unlike the touch pads of the new models). I would hate to have a washer that uses as little water as this one does and not have a recirculation system. I've owned this set for a couple of weeks and have had excellent results washing everything from a huge, heavy queen-sized comforter, to a load of two pairs of dress pants, to large loads of highly-stained kitchen whites. I'll admit to being a little freaked out at how little water is used, but I'm adjusting to it. It cleans well since the detergent is so highly concentrated in a small amount of water. The clothes do a perfect lift-and-drop, too. The only adjustment I've made is to have the Heavy, Whitest Whites and Normal cycles opt for the Max Soil option, which adds an additional 6 minutes to the wash cycle. I think the default wash times are a little too short for anything but lightly soiled loads.

Chris---I think 110 degree water is only warm by anyone's standards! If I didn't get excellent washing results, I would be alarmed by this. So far it's cleaned everything perfectly. And if you want hotter water, you can choose the Allergy option, which heats the water to 130 degrees. I want to try a tough load of stained kitchen whites using liquid Tide With Bleach Alternative to see if things come as clean as they do with UK Persil Bio powder. I am loving Persil for really tough loads. Too bad it costs about $47 per box to have it shipped through the Brit Superstore. That's why I'm only using it for loads of kitchen whites. I also use substantially less than what they recommend on the box, but I have super-soft water.

Darryl---The washer is virtually silent during "agitation" periods, so you can hear the quiet hum of the recirculation pump kick in if you're in the room. The washer is very quiet---even during high-speed spins---compared to my old Frigidaire. I expected the dryer to be quieter than it is. It isn't annoyingly loud, just not as quiet as a friend's LG dryer. But the dryer has a number of very cool features, and I like it much better than my old one. I'm loving the "Add Steam" option for loads of shirts, pants, etc. There's also an "Anti-Static" option which sprays a bit of steam in during the cooldown. I wash several poly-blend tablecloths each week, and they used to cling to each other and be full of static electricity. No more! Things come out with fewer wrinkles than they used to; however, this is probably also due to the larger dryer drum. This one is 7.0 cubic feet. My old dryer was 5.8.




This post was last edited 09/07/2010 at 22:31
Post# 462022 , Reply# 48   9/7/2010 at 21:30 (4,950 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia)        

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If it is a 'cup style' formula (or in ML's), you should be able to get away with the soft water dose without much issue....Now bearing in mind that US machines are substantially bigger than European ones, I would be tempted to use the 'Medium' water dose...

Post# 462031 , Reply# 49   9/7/2010 at 22:01 (4,950 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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Chris-- Here's one of the three boxes of Persil Bio I ordered from the Brit Superstore about a month ago. It's the 50-wash size. It cost about $47 per box to have it shipped to me. I use it only for loads of highly-stained kitchen and personal whites. It is the cleanest-rinsing detergent I've ever used.



Post# 462033 , Reply# 50   9/7/2010 at 22:08 (4,950 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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It recommends using 55 ml for lightly soiled loads in soft water, and 175 ml for heavily soiled loads.

I use 30 ml for the prewash and 60 ml in the main wash for a large, very heavily-stained load. I also add 30 ml of Tri-Zyme (an oxygen-based stain remover, similar to Oxi-Clean) to the main wash. The box should last quite a long time. I've been keeping track every time I use Persil, so I'll know how many loads I can get from a box. Results have been excellent. If I wasn't adding the Tri-Zyme, I might need to be a bit more generous with the Persil. I normally follow recommended dosages, but the Persil costs a king's ransom, so I'm fairly parsimonious with it, LOL.

I use Amway's SA-8 detergent for most other loads. It cleans normally-soiled loads well and rinses out better than Tide, but doesn't clean or rinse out as well as UK Persil. I use liquid Tide With Bleach Alternative HE for some loads, as I'm trying to use up my stash of that. For loads of blacks (I wear a lot of black) I use liquid Woolite Extra Care For Darks HE.




Post# 462158 , Reply# 51   9/8/2010 at 15:07 (4,949 days old) by PassatDoc (Orange County, California)        
Persil washes whiter....

....and it shows!

I had a ball point pen accident with a dress shirt. I ran it through a soak and then heavy wash cycle (my machine has no pre-wash, but you can run a soak cycle and then manually restart the machine on a wash cycle). Stain completely gone. I used Persil brought back from the UK. I doubt Tide HE could have saved that shirt.

PS Persil also has a royal warrant from HM The Queen. I think it's on the opposite end panel of the box, across from the dosage end panel.


Post# 462159 , Reply# 52   9/8/2010 at 15:10 (4,949 days old) by PassatDoc (Orange County, California)        

PS I am working on a box of UK Persil and also a pack of real German Persil. What I like about medium packets of German Persil is that they come in plastic pouches rather than boxes, and pack much better in luggage. Last trip to Sweden, I brought back two boxes of Via (Swedish Unilever Persil) and the baggage handlers managed to rupture one of the two boxes. Fortunately I had them sealed inside gallon size Zip Lock bags, but the German Persil in plastic pouches travels much better (I still Zip Lock it, just in case).

Post# 462199 , Reply# 53   9/8/2010 at 17:45 (4,949 days old) by laundromat (Hilo, Hawaii)        
Fins in the tub---

laundromat's profile picture
I am wondering if the fins that are in your new Affinity washer are interchangeable with the earlier model's fins???? I'll bet they are.

Post# 462245 , Reply# 54   9/8/2010 at 20:33 (4,949 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)        

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qsd-dan brought up a good point in the Super forum in his rant against US-made, very-low water use front-loaders: Can they clean ground-in mud/dirt/grease? I'm going to do a test load with some jeans and shirts on those very soils, and maybe throw in a few white bath towels to see if the soil transfers to other items.

I'm going to use a prewash, the stain treat option, the heavy cycle, and an extra rinse. If the results are poor, I'll try the same test using the 152 degree wash and the steam option to see if results are improved. The Max Fill option doesn't seem to add much extra water, so I'm not going to use it for the test load.

I'm interested to see the results. Although I garden and do yard work, it's not like I'm a farmer or an auto mechanic, so my laundry doesn't contain a lot of mud/dirt/grease.



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