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Thread Number: 30890
Saving Rinse Water |
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| Post# 466471 , Reply# 1 9/29/2010 at 23:59 (4,951 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room) | ||
First, congratulations on your find! I've often thought I'd like a suds saver machine.
The approach your machine has is, as far as I know, the only official approach. It does have two advantages over saving rinse water: 1. It allows the reuse of detergent. I think the suggestion was to add some fresh detergent each load, but one wouldn't need a full dose. Over time, this will add up. 2. It allows reuse of hot water multiple times. While reusing rinse water can allow one to reuse warm water (assuming warm water was used for the rinse), it would be a one time thing. And, you'd have to completely refill with warm water for every load. The suds saver mentality was, I think, influenced by wringer machines, which were commonly used with one fill of wash water used for a whole day's laundry. Saving rinse water instead of wash water does make sense in some ways. Wash water reused too many times will probably make clothes dirtier coming out than going in. Then, I have often wondered if warm water wouldn't work better for rinsing, but it's not something I can really see myself doing due to cost of heating the water for just a 2 minute rinse. But, if I could save that water for the next load, the picture would definitely change. | ||
| Post# 466473 , Reply# 2 9/30/2010 at 00:05 (4,951 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room) | ||
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I don't know how to adapt a suds saver machine to save rinse water, and drain wash water. (I imagine it's possible, but it would probably take work and more knowledge than I have.)
But an easy way of getting what you want is simply to put both hoses so they drain into the tub. Then, have the tub unplugged to drain the wash water. Plug it to hold the rinse water, and unplug as soon as it has pumped back into the machine. This does take more work and effort than an automatic approach. And it does take care to make sure the tub is unplugged to drain at the right time. If you forget, and save wash water, there could be a small flood when the rinse water drains. | ||
| Post# 466485 , Reply# 3 9/30/2010 at 03:32 (4,951 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO) | ||
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Post# 466490 , Reply# 4 9/30/2010 at 07:40 (4,950 days old) by combo52  (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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SUDS-SAVER WASHERS
Jonathan welcome to this site, Your washer is a super capacity machine that can hold up 25 gallons in one fill. As this washer left the factory it was set to save less than 18 gallons of the wash water to prevent overflowing the typical laundry sink, as you found if you connect a loose wire at the timer you can save all the wash water. If you want to save the rinse water instead you could do so by simply putting the stopper in the sink where the rinse hose is draining and let the wash water go down the drain, do keep in mind that more than 35 gallons of water will come out of the rinse hose on a normal full load so you will need a large basin to save that much water. Then when you want to get the water back into the machine you would have to place the wash drain hose in the sink where the rinse water was stored and then set the machine to return the water. Don't worry that the machine will over flow if you have saved more water than it will hold as the water level switch in in control as the washer is pumping the water back and will close the two way valve when the washer tub reaches the set level. You would like the later KM direct drive suds-saver washers as they had a switch on the control panel that allowed you to save either the rinse or wash water, it also allowed you to save 16 or up to 23 gallons at either setting. We have two such machines here my friend Jason owns one and is currently using it at his home. Any way its great to have you here my Mother also lives in Burnsville MN, good luck John.
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Post# 466495 , Reply# 5 9/30/2010 at 08:16 (4,950 days old) by polkanut (Wausau, WI ) |
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My Mom and I both have suds-saver machines and use them regularly. There is no truth to the statement, " Wash water reused too many times will probably make clothes dirtier coming out than going in." After the wash water is pumped into the suds tub, the dirt etc. in the water settles to the bottom, thereby the next time it's used it is fit to reuse. I have reused the same water up to 4 times, it just depends on how dirty your laundry is to begin with.
It also saves significantly on the amount of detergent and hot water needed and used. It is true that on subsequent loads you only need 1/2 the normal amount of detergent. You definitely can't use rinse water that has fabric softener in it because it's chemical composition will decrease the effectiveness of detergent. I've included a link to show what types of suds saver tubs are available today. P.S., Dissolved detergents are also designed to hold dirt in suspension, thus preventing it from being redeposited on laundered items. CLICK HERE TO GO TO polkanut's LINK This post was last edited 09/30/2010 at 13:37 | ||
| Post# 466523 , Reply# 6 9/30/2010 at 11:41 (4,950 days old) by iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas) | ||
Many years ago (about 20) the magazine "Mother Earth News" had a simple to make system that would save and re-use rinse water. What this system mainly did was divert the rinse water to a holding tank to be re-used as gray water to water the garden and flower beds.
It also had a manual switch that would allow you to divert the water back to the washer for the main wash. | ||
| Post# 466535 , Reply# 7 9/30/2010 at 13:00 (4,950 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY) | ||
Welcome to the wash house
Old Mrs. Gray, my land lady way back when, down in the basement of our double house, said one day when we were washing together, "I wish I could save the rinse water." I showed her how, moving the hoses around, but at 88, it was beyond her. She had a 197? Kemmore Suds, white with the a beige control panel all the way to the right: main dial, water level, and HWC. It was my first experience with a 3 vane (gold) agitator. How it rocked, almost scary.
It seems that four was the magic number of loads done in the same water, same for conventionals (wringers & Easies). A half a cup of extra det. sounds generous. Depending on the load, way less suffices. When suds-saving in the Frigidiare, I return the suds water only once, adding no extra detergent at all. It's usually hot, clean water from a white, sheet, or bright towel load, and I skip the first overflow. The second load, usually trunks and summer shorts, comes out perfect. | ||
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Post# 466541 , Reply# 8 9/30/2010 at 13:16 (4,950 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis) |
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Hi Jonathan, I agree with you, I have absolutely no desire to re-use wash water (yuk in my opinion), but I do reuse rinse water sometimes. GE figured this out early on, their 1947-1949 washers saved the rinse water in the outer tub during the final spin (by not running the drain pump). If you wish to reuse the rinse water, you would then set the dial for the next wash to pump the rinse water back up into the wash basket (as opposed to selecting "Empty"). I have two of these early GE washers and sometimes I will wash towels for the first load, not use any softener (in 1947 fabric softener didn't exist) and then do a load of colors for the next wash by pumping the rinse water back up from the previous towel load.
If you want to adapt your Kenmore to automatically save the rinse water you will have to build a simple system of four relays in tandem with the voltage output to the suds valve solenoid run through each of the relay switches in series. Relay #1, switch closed when motor is running, Relay #2, switch closed when agitator solenoid is NOT energized, Relay #3, switch closed when spin solenoid is NOT energized, Relay #4, switch closed when suds valve contact on timer is NOT energized. This will trick the valve into diverting the water into the suds sink during the rinse drain and final spin. A portion of the first spin will also be diverted, but the amount of water should be minimal. | ||
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Post# 466618 , Reply# 9 9/30/2010 at 21:18 (4,950 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Reuse of Wash Water
Made very good sense for familes with limited hot water supplies, and or the cost/effort of producing the same was dear. As stated above this is a hold over from using laundry tubs, boilers and so on when laundry was done by hand.
Both hot water and soap cost money, (and took time to make), so it was natural a housewife would try to get as much bang for her buck as she could. Often the final tub of wash water was used to wash down floors or the front steps/back porch. When using wash tubs, rinse water was reused often. Again if a family did not have piped cold water on taps, it save lugging pails of water from the well, or where ever one got water from. Once automatic washing machines became the norm, along with indoor plumbing there was less of rinse water saving. Many early automatic washing machines made heavy use of advertising touting the benefits of using "fresh" water for several rinse cycles, instead of the old methods. Across the pond, where washing machines have had built in heaters (even if only coal/wood fired), saving final rinse water wasn't such a big deal. One weighed the cost/effort of fresh water for the wash (including heating), versus the supply of fresh water. Another thing about reusing wash water. Normally housewives only used wash water until it became too saturated with grime to support suds, or it was just too filthy to go on. A wise laundress or whomever quickly learned it was false economy to keep using wash water beyond it's prime. Given the limited ability of soaps to keep hard water deposits and grime in suspension, going too long between changes of water simply gave poor results. Instructions for modern "detergents" one has in the stash often suggested adding 1/2 or more for each reuse of wash water in wringers or twin tub washing. While such products with man made surfactants and even phosphates are better in keeping soils and such in suspension, even they have limits. One thing that slows me down when using the Hoover TT, and probably why it sits unused now that the Whirlpool portable arrived, is one simply cannot bring oneself to reuse wash water. Well maybe if it is boiling hot will give two or maybe three loads max, but these are small loads. The "yuck" factor of transferring grime and germs from one load to the next just gets me. | ||
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Post# 466667 , Reply# 10 10/1/2010 at 09:20 (4,949 days old) by Toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
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You haven't lived until you have seen somene use RAID i
One might want to consider regular bathing and de-louse-ing one's person!
Quote: The "yuck" factor of transferring grime and germs from one load to the next just gets me. In most home machines there is ALWAYS a little bit of water in the sump, pump and hoses. Hence there will ALWAYS be just a teenie-weenie bit of cross-contamination between loads unless the machine is thoroughly sanitized in between. Using a tumble dryer in my head is enough sanitation. The heat alone should kill and pesky little germies; and if that doesn't get them, the CO2, NOx, SOx etc from burning natural gas or propane may help as well. | ||
| Post# 466703 , Reply# 11 10/1/2010 at 13:37 (4,949 days old) by amyswasher () | ||
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It sound like you've been to the laundromat. | ||
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Post# 466722 , Reply# 12 10/1/2010 at 16:02 (4,949 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Rinsing and "Yuck" Residue
Will give you that unless one runs disenfectant though the machine after each wash, or has used wash temps >160F, there are going to be issues, but my Miele does five rinses on "normal" cycle. With proper detergent dosage the water is clear by the fourth rinse.
Granted one cannot see "germs" with a naked eye, this is still far better than top loaders IMHO with the one deep rinse, especially without a good number of spray rinses between. Certianly is vastly better than twin or washer tub laundry using the same water to rinse multiple loads. Indeed one of the reasons use neither the Whirlpool or Hoover that often is that rinsing up to my standard simply takes too darn long. In the case of the Hoover the "Wow" factor quickly gives over to back breaking and head pounding work. *LOL* L | ||
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