Thread Number: 31049
New dishwasher advice? 		[Down to Last]

automaticwasher.org's exclusive eBay Watch:
scroll >>> for more items --- [As an eBay Partner, eBay may compensate automaticwasher.org if you make a purchase using any link to eBay on this page]
Post# 468526   10/11/2010 at 14:10 (4,938 days old) by Dustin92 (Jackson, MI)        

Well I think our 10 year old BOL GE dishwasher is finally going on the fritz.... It has never really washed well and im wondering what to replace it with. My biggest requirement is that the dishes come out clean! I would like a built in water heater because our dishwasher is at the other end of the house from the water heater. I would like to spend as little as possible to get clean dishes, and i was wondering if Frigidaire are any good, but I am open to any brand, new or used. THANK YOU!




Post# 468597 , Reply# 1   10/11/2010 at 19:16 (4,938 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
Frigidaire are aweful, not much better than what you have. Stay away. You pay for what you get!!

Post# 468600 , Reply# 2   10/11/2010 at 19:18 (4,938 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
Sears has a Maytag MDB7609 for $399, regularly list for $549. Has a stainless steel tub that helps with drying, nylon racks, soft food disposer instead of a filter you have to clean, a good basic dishwasher. That's about the least expensive machine with a SS interior on Sears web site. The other ones in the same price range are Samsung, Bosch, and a GE. The Maytag is the best option of the lot.

Post# 468645 , Reply# 3   10/11/2010 at 22:24 (4,938 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

rp2813's profile picture
Don't presume that an on-board water heater will be the solution to the distance issue. Instruction manuals for all dishwashers I've owned that had automatic water heating advise that the incoming water has to be a minimum of 120 degrees for the on-board heater to be effective.

I've always run the hot water at the kitchen sink, usually by washing items that must be done by hand, to get it up to temperature before starting the dishwasher. That is usually sufficient to maintain high enough incoming water temps for the remaining washes and/or rinses.





Post# 468695 , Reply# 4   10/11/2010 at 23:49 (4,938 days old) by appnut (TX)        
on-board heaters

 appnut's profile picture
U.s. products have a set amount of time they are allowed by the computer to heat the water before they "time out_ if the time limit is met. In the old days with mechanical timer machines, Whirlpool's just delayed the timer until the temp was reached for both the main wash and final rinse. Now days, it's the european made products (Bosch, Asko, Miele, and F&P) which do heat to whatever temp the machine targets because they're basically designed to heat from cold water.

Post# 468723 , Reply# 5   10/12/2010 at 08:09 (4,938 days old) by Dustin92 (Jackson, MI)        

would a whirlpool quiet partner 2 be any good? there is one listed on craigslist for $40, about 30 miles from here.

Post# 468726 , Reply# 6   10/12/2010 at 08:23 (4,938 days old) by iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)        
Stay away from Frigidaire

 iheartmaytag's profile picture
Worst dishwasher I have ever had the displeasure of owning.

If you want one there is one in the garage. I managed to live with it less than a month when I bought my house before it had to go.

I have a Maytag Quiet series that is some distance from the water tank. What I do is purge the line by running the sink until the water is hot before I start the machine. It appears to not have a problem maintaining temperature, as the sanatize light comes on at the end of the cycle. It wouldn't light if the temps weren't hot enough during the cycle.


Post# 468730 , Reply# 7   10/12/2010 at 08:46 (4,938 days old) by PassatDoc (Orange County, California)        
never been burned by a Bosch

 I can't speak for the new Ascencia line, which has a plastic bottom tub, but the all-steel Bosch models do a great job. The BOL all-steel model in the Evolution (front panel controls, as opposed to hidden door edge controls) line runs a bit over $500 and does a great job at a reasonable price. At all price points, Bosch is competitive with KitchenAid. I am using Finish tabs in my Bosch, which as far as I can tell are phosphate-free, and it still does a super job of cleaning. My machine is from 2001, now nine years old, and has never required any servicing.

Post# 468771 , Reply# 8   10/12/2010 at 11:53 (4,938 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Had a Bosch

 mrb627's profile picture
I had a Bosch before I upgraded. They are pretty god units. I would buy one again. Even with the so-called drying issues, I think they are a good buy for the money.

Malcolm

Post# 469096 , Reply# 9   10/13/2010 at 21:15 (4,936 days old) by randomguy ()        

If you can deal with a standard height tub, search sears.com for 1344. That is a Kenmore dishwasher that uses the Whirlpool PowerClean wash module, which was introduced in 1984, if I remember correctly. Does a good job without taking all day to do it. This particular machine also has nylon racks, which last longer than vinyl ones. We just bought one of these a few weeks ago, and IIRC ours cost about 330 dollars. I believe it comes in white, black, stainless steel, and maybe almond.

Post# 469212 , Reply# 10   10/14/2010 at 00:08 (4,936 days old) by 1972LKdishwash ()        
new dishwashers to buy

 My family has a history of many DECADES WITH LADY KENMORE AND KENMORE APPLIANCES, TODAY ANY DISHWASHER FROM SEARS>>> KENMORE (ULTRA WASH) BEGINNING WITH 665 IS MADE BY WHIRLPOOL, WHICH IS A GOOD MACHINE..FOR NOW>>>>><>STAY AWAY FROM FRIGIDAIRE, SUCH A SHAME, WHEN IT WAS ONCE THE APPLIANCE MENTOR...........

Post# 469594 , Reply# 11   10/15/2010 at 20:40 (4,934 days old) by Dustin92 (Jackson, MI)        
well, not exactly what i planned...

 we just picked up a newer version of what we have, it was listed on craigslist for free and my dad jumped on it. It is a Nautilus instead of a Potscrubber, but from what i can see is pretty close to what we have. The only thing I see is that it has a smaller motor (1.8 amps instead of 5.7) and it says it has a "quietpower motor"can anybody tell me if this means it will be quieter? Its in the garage, and I will probably post an uupdate after it is installed and I have ran a load.

Post# 469690 , Reply# 12   10/16/2010 at 12:20 (4,934 days old) by mtn1584 (USA)        

KitchenAid is the way to go. Stainless steel interior, made by Whirlpool, and the basic unit is only $525.00 for black. I have had mine for a year now, and haven't had any problems. I never pre-rinse anything, and I hate to wash dishes, so evrything goes in the DW. I use two Finish Powerball Tablets, and everhting comes out clean including my BOB loads.
MIKE
Let us know what you buy.

Post# 469738 , Reply# 13   10/16/2010 at 18:24 (4,933 days old) by Dustin92 (Jackson, MI)        
well....

 It is all installed and running a load with some dishwasher magic to clean things out before putting dishes in it. It seems to be somewhat quieter than the old one, which i discovered was leaking on the floor under it every time it drained. this one seems to run a longer cycle, so maybe it will clean dishes better. I will post another update after I have washed some dishes in it.

Post# 469863 , Reply# 14   10/17/2010 at 08:46 (4,933 days old) by mikeklondon (London)        

HI I am new here, I have only ever had Miele D/W all my life and they always wash well, In the UK all D/W work from cold only. I had no idear you could run from hot fill? the soil would just bake on I would think. A bit like putting washing in a hot fill machine the stain just sets in. What about the hygiene if you use water from a hot tank? PS. love the site. The pic is my 2 baby's Lulu 7 Munchie

Post# 469869 , Reply# 15   10/17/2010 at 09:55 (4,933 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room)        

lordkenmore's profile picture
First, welcome to this site, Mikeklondon! And nice dogs!

In the US, hot water fill is a standard approach for dishwashers. I'm not sure about if all dishwashers behave this way, but all the recent products from US based companies that I'm aware of use hot water fill. The only time they heat water is for special needs, like a sanitize cycle. Even then, the dishwasher's water heating is limited--it's heating already hot water.

I'm not sure how hot water fill compares with cold water fill, since all the dishwashers I've used have had hot water fill.

One obvious problem with hot water fill is when the dishwasher is a long ways away from the water heater. Hot water will be cooler after a long run of pipe. (Running a kitchen faucet to get hot water to the point of use can help, but there still can be losses even when the hot water is constantly flowing.)

As for hygiene, any dishwasher should out perform hand washing, even with relatively low temperature hot water. (That is, high enough to clean, but not high enough to kill all germs.) For some people, this is good enough. For those who want more, they can use a dishwasher that has a "sanitize" option, which will heat the hot water going in to a higher temperature, which should kill pretty much any germ.

Post# 469880 , Reply# 16   10/17/2010 at 10:51 (4,933 days old) by PassatDoc (Orange County, California)        
@mikeklondon

Welcome to the board. US dishwashers use hot water fill, but the dishwasher also has a booster heater to raise the temperature above hot water line temp for the final rinse. I believe the final rinse temps on my Bosch DW are something like 150 F for "normal" cycle and about 160 F for "powerscrub plus" cycle. My hot water line is about 135 F, so the machine pauses while the heater kicks in. Yes, the dishwashers run on 120V, but the heater only has to raise the temp by 10-25 F.

That said, where I live, it costs 3-4 times as much to heat with electricity as it does with gas. I have a gas water heater, gas clothes dryer, and gas range cooker, and the monthly gas bill in the months when the house doesn't require heating (e.g. April to October or November) is about $12/month. The bill rises to perhaps $35-40 in the coldest winter months, with all of the increase going to keeping the house warm.

I have a natural gas 40 gallon storage tank heater. Installation of a tankless gas heater system would lower the monthly bill even more, but the cost of installation to retrofit an existing system can run >$1000, so if the gas bill dropped $2-3 a month, how long would it take to recoup the added retrofit costs (the issues are installation of a larger diameter gas supply pipe plus a larger/more durable exhaust vent). In new construction, a tankless system is more likely to be used because then the installation costs are not much more than for a storage tank system. In addition, the cost of gas tank water heaters has been rising due to increased regulatory requirements regarding emissions and ignition (now must be electronic, pezio-type ignition rather than an always-burning pilot light), so that the cost gap between tankless and tank models is shrinking.

Heating DW water from line cold to proper washing temps with electricity would be prohibitively expensive in many parts of the USA. And slow, unless 240V were used. US homes may have 240V outlets in areas such as laundry (for a dryer), water heater, and kitchen (either a range cooker, or built in ovens plus cooktop). However, standard kitchens are normally equipped with only a 120V outlet at the DW position.

My home was built 1988. In the US, new homes will include a DW and either range cooker or built in ovens plus cooktop (these are supplied by the builder; upgrades possible in some cases), and sometimes the option for a built in refrigerator (often, however, they leave a 38 inch gap in the cabinets where you supply your own freestanding fridge, and the space will be plumbed with a water valve for icemaker use).

In my case, the builder supplied a gas range cooker with a 120 V outlet and a gas pipe (the outlet supplies electricity for the range cooker's controls/clock/timer/interior light). There was no 240V outlet option. I guess they assumed that someone upgrading the range in say 8-10 years would simply purchase a better gas range. Convection ranges, initially introduced in the US as 240V electric models, did not yet (1988) exist, so there was no provision for 240V service. One could add 240V but it would have required complete demolition and rebuilding of the cabinets/walls to add the addition circuit lines.

I waited to upgrade until gas convection ranges began to appear on the US market (late 1990s; I bought mine in 2001). That way I could simply ditch the old range and add a new convection range that needed only a gas supply pipe and a 120V outlet.

Re: cleaning ability of hot water fill in a DW---I think it's a different process because what you are washing in a DW is nonporous, so there is nothing to "set" a stain. People who wish to soften baked-on food in a pot or baking dish often soak it in hot soapy water as the first treatment (perhaps to prepare it for hand washing or inclusion in a DW load).

PS beautiful looking dogs!! The newest versions of Frigidaire's (Electrolux) FL washers, with 4.4 cubic foot capacity, include a "pet bed" cycle.

Post# 469881 , Reply# 17   10/17/2010 at 10:52 (4,933 days old) by mikeklondon (London)        

Thanks for the welcome. I never knew you could get a hot fill D/W till I looked at this site. One day my aim is to have a kitchen that will take a vintage machine . Till then the Miele i have now will have to do. The best thing about it is that its at higher level so no bending to unload. I just looked at the book and It can be connected to hot fill but its not recommended for the points you put above IE to far from tank and would cost more to run + not wash as well

Post# 469886 , Reply# 18   10/17/2010 at 11:04 (4,933 days old) by PassatDoc (Orange County, California)        

Mike, in my case, the garage is attached to the house, the rear wall of the garage is shared by the kitchen on the other side, and there is a door from garage into kitchen (very typical in US homes, bring the groceries right inside after shopping, though we have neither Sainsburys nor Tesco here). My water heater, washer/dryer, and furnace are all located in a recessed alcove on the garage side of the wall. Remember, this is California, the pipes don't freeze in winter. Traditionally, California homes built post-war had laundry areas in the garage, which keeps the house cooler in summer and offers protection against leaks (the garage slab is six inches below house level), and the garage slab is very slightly slanted toward the street. Any washer line leaks simply run out the garage into the street, and the garage has 4 inch concrete "baseboards" along the sides. The only things that might be ruined would be if you left something lying directly on the floor. I have steel storage racks for that purpose, so that NOTHING except plastic items directly touches the floor, so if there is a leak, it just flows out the garage door (once you open the door a few inches, of course) with no wall or floor damage.

(note: the modern trend, as homes have grown in size, is to relocate laundry areas inside, and often on the second story if there is one, to minimise distance between where clothing and linens are washed and used----i.e. mostly in bathrooms and bedrooms....but I've heard more than my share of "disasters" from second story laundry rooms that flooded, despite having a "safety pan" or "safety shut off" or full drain in place).

That said, the distance from the water heater to the DW is about 6-8 feet, so supply of hot water and "priming" the system is not a big deal. It's probably that the initial fill of the DW is not truly at hot water line temp, as the system primes out the water that was sitting in the pipes between heater and DW

Post# 470053 , Reply# 19   10/18/2010 at 05:13 (4,932 days old) by mikeklondon (London)        

I have just found out a few very interesting facts about the US from the posts above I never knew that the US had 240 V power, hot fill D/W’s now I understand why most US washing machines are hot fill top loaders. In the UK the hot water tank is often too small to run a top loader. I am so envious of the space most people seem to have in the US. At the moment I have this burning desire to jump on a plane, one thing I have always wanted to do is tour the US in an RV.

Post# 470403 , Reply# 20   10/19/2010 at 21:15 (4,930 days old) by Dustin92 (Jackson, MI)        
cool!

 It has washed 2 loads that would have challenged the old one, both packed full, a little bit of food on the dishes. (almost everything is pre rinsed) both loads were run on the short wash setting, and everything came out clean! the first load was washed with Cascade powder (with phosphates) and the second load was washed with Palmolive eco (phosphate free). The old one would not clean ANYTHING with phosphate free detergent. it left everything dirty, spotted and hazy. I am sure the difference is caused by the longer cycle time, which seemed to be about 45 minutes to an hour for the short wash. that is compared to about 25 minutes to half an hour for the same cycle on the old one. my only complaint (for now!) is the noise, which while somewhat quieter than the old one, is still pretty loud.

Post# 470458 , Reply# 21   10/20/2010 at 05:06 (4,930 days old) by volsboy1 (East Tenn Smoky mountains )        

volsboy1's profile picture
G.E. dishwasher's are pretty good even with a small motor they have been using that sidewinder design for decades.I just got one back in the summer a G.E. Monogram and it cleans great as long as I like everybody else in here use Phosphates added to the detergents.I still would chunk this dishwasher if I found a old Kitchenaid. Welcome Mike to the club I have always thought it would be cool to have my friends live close and you love the space here in the U.S. well yes there is a lot of space.I am at our farm and well it's lonely and creepy here sometimes, there is nobody for miles in every direction.That don't bother some people but I have epilepsy and I am one legged so I do sometimes get in those what if state of minds.

Post# 474123 , Reply# 22   11/8/2010 at 22:00 (4,910 days old) by Dustin92 (Jackson, MI)        
Good news!

 This dishwasher is AWESOME! It has been used constantly since we got it, and it will clean anything! I have washed some nasty loads and everything comes out perfect. I have totally stopped pre rinsing dishes, while I am still trying to convince my mom and dad that its just a waste of water. With the old dishwasher, if everything was not rinsed thouroughly, stuff on the bottom rack would be about 90% clean and the cups and glasses in the top rack would have bits of food in the bottom. with this new dishwasher, everything is clean EVERY time!

Post# 474134 , Reply# 23   11/8/2010 at 22:22 (4,910 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
Good to hear Dustin.


Forum Index:       Other Forums:                      


Comes to the Rescue!

The Discuss-o-Mat has stopped, buzzer is sounding!!!
If you would like to reply to this thread please log-in...

Discuss-O-MAT Log-In



New Members Click Here To Sign Up.



                     

automaticwasher.org home
Discuss-o-Mat Forums
Vintage Brochures, Service and Owners Manuals
Fun Vintage Washer Ephemera
See It Wash!
Video Downloads
 Audio Downloads
Picture of the Day
Patent of the Day
Photos of our Collections
The Old Aberdeen Farm
Vintage Service Manuals 		Vintage washer/dryer/dishwasher to sell?
Technical/service questions?
Looking for Parts?
Website related questions?
Digital Millennium Copyright Act Policy
Our Privacy Policy