Thread Number: 31323
1930's CONOVER dishwasher...help!
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Post# 472818   11/1/2010 at 13:09 (4,896 days old) by perc-o-prince (Southboro, Mass)        

Thanks to Larry(CleanteamofNY) I now have a Conover Electric Dishwasher. I am fascinated by the simplicity. I have been trying to find out some info on it. History, time frame produced...how it works?? It is pretty straight forward but a couple of things have me scratching my head. Does anyone have any information on it. It looks very much like a Walker.

I will post some pics as soon as I can. Thanks again, Larry. It was great to visit you and see your washer collection. Better lock your doors or you may find your Thor missing!! :-)

Rich





Post# 472897 , Reply# 1   11/1/2010 at 21:47 (4,895 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        

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Paging dishwashercrazy! Mike, do you have any information about the Conover??

Post# 472903 , Reply# 2   11/1/2010 at 22:16 (4,895 days old) by CircleW (NE Cincinnati OH area)        
Westinghouse

Hi Rich, according to info on this site, Westinghouse bought Conover sometime prior to 1939. The "Super Searchalator" list 13 threads mentioning this machine.

Post# 473042 , Reply# 3   11/2/2010 at 16:51 (4,894 days old) by CleanteamofNY ((Monroe, New York)        

cleanteamofny's profile picture
Rich,

Your welcome and it was a pleasure doing this favor for you!
Mr. Thor will be hiding behind door # 1 but will have a goodtime if the abducter treat him with good suds! P-)


Post# 473058 , Reply# 4   11/2/2010 at 18:32 (4,894 days old) by perc-o-prince (Southboro, Mass)        

Tom, Thanks. I did see that but there realy was not much info. I was hoping that maybe more information had surfaced. I saw that another member had the same dishwasher and his came with paperwork BUT he was looking to find it a new home. My hope was that someone on this site was able to get it and might share what they know. I tried emailing the orig owner but didn't get any reply.

Oh, Larry...I'll take what's behind door #1 !!!!

Rich


Post# 473159 , Reply# 5   11/3/2010 at 07:32 (4,894 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)        
Conover pics

akronman's profile picture
I'd love to see pics!

Post# 473188 , Reply# 6   11/3/2010 at 09:53 (4,894 days old) by dishwashercrazy (West Peoria, IL)        
Conover Dishwasher Brochure dated 1930

dishwashercrazy's profile picture

In at least two previous threads, I had posted a scanned image of my Conover Brochure. The quality is not sufficient enough to read some of the words unless you save the pictures to your computer then enlarge the images yourself.

And Robert has requested new scans of the Brochure in better quality so that he can include it as a Picture-of-the-Day. However, I no longer have a functioning scanner that works with my present laptop computer.

The brochure is a folded pamphlet, which has a hole in the middle of it. When the whole thing is unfolded, some images are upside-down. So I scanned the brochure in sections, then used Windows Paint to reassemble it - which is what I previously posted.

Below are the individual sections that I scanned, in hopes that the information will be better to look at and read.

By the way, this is the only Conover Dishwasher material that I currently have.

Mike



Post# 473189 , Reply# 7   11/3/2010 at 09:54 (4,894 days old) by dishwashercrazy (West Peoria, IL)        

dishwashercrazy's profile picture

Conover Dishwasher Brochure dated 1930


Post# 473192 , Reply# 8   11/3/2010 at 10:02 (4,894 days old) by dishwashercrazy (West Peoria, IL)        

dishwashercrazy's profile picture

Conover Dishwasher Brochure dated 1930


Post# 473193 , Reply# 9   11/3/2010 at 10:03 (4,894 days old) by dishwashercrazy (West Peoria, IL)        

dishwashercrazy's profile picture

Conover Dishwasher Brochure dated 1930


Post# 473194 , Reply# 10   11/3/2010 at 10:04 (4,894 days old) by dishwashercrazy (West Peoria, IL)        

dishwashercrazy's profile picture

Conover Dishwasher Brochure dated 1930


Post# 473195 , Reply# 11   11/3/2010 at 10:05 (4,894 days old) by dishwashercrazy (West Peoria, IL)        

dishwashercrazy's profile picture

Conover Dishwasher Brochure dated 1930


Post# 473196 , Reply# 12   11/3/2010 at 10:06 (4,894 days old) by dishwashercrazy (West Peoria, IL)        

dishwashercrazy's profile picture

Conover Dishwasher Brochure dated 1930


Post# 473200 , Reply# 13   11/3/2010 at 10:18 (4,894 days old) by polkanut (Wausau, WI )        

polkanut's profile picture
What type of detergent would have been used in early dishwashers? Didn't dishwasher specific detergents first appear in the late 40's-early 50's?

Post# 473216 , Reply# 14   11/3/2010 at 11:59 (4,894 days old) by CircleW (NE Cincinnati OH area)        
Interesting early machine

Noted that it came in green, ivory and blue in addition to white. Wonder if Conover had their own foundry to make the cast iron parts, or if they were provided by American-Standard or other plumbing mfr.?

Did find it odd that it appears that the water is pumped out of the dishwasher section into the sink to drain. That would preclude using the sink side at the same time. Would like to see one in person sometime.


Post# 473251 , Reply# 15   11/3/2010 at 15:39 (4,893 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)        
Conover plumbing

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Thanks for all the posts, very much. I am wondering about that extra handle mounted up the sink backsplash from the dishwasher----possibly a hot water valve and the operator would control the amount of water coming in? Or was water controlled by regular faucet through that hole in the top of the drainboard/dishwell cover? Or were they modern enough for a solenoid and limit switch?
Many thanks for pics, now explain what you know, please. Thanks in advance--
Mark


Post# 473261 , Reply# 16   11/3/2010 at 18:05 (4,893 days old) by CircleW (NE Cincinnati OH area)        

As this was not a fully automatic machine, I'm thinking the lever may have been a multi-positon control. Perhaps you set it one way to fill, another to run, and yet another to empty out the water. I have a feeling the operator determined how long the dishes washed, as no timer is mentioned. I also assume it used regular soap flakes such as Ivory or Lux.

Post# 473264 , Reply# 17   11/3/2010 at 18:17 (4,893 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)        

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Maybe you're right. I took another look at all the pics, I'm gonna guess it has to do with pump valve open or closed. Maybe water was filled by person at spout thru hole, then either it ran with valve closed for propeller to wash or with valve open for pumping out water? I'll keep guessing until an owner gives us the real dope----and VIDEOS!!

Post# 473278 , Reply# 18   11/3/2010 at 19:48 (4,893 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

It filled through the hole in the top that you see under the faucet when the cover is in place. That is mentioned in the picture in the lower right corner.

You could not use soap; it made too many suds. As has been discussed here previously in other threads, there were no non-sudsing surfactants until the 50s and those were not very good. Early dishwashers used a combinations of water softening agents, like STPP and others. Because they were not fully built detergents, early machine dishwashing was not like today. Food soil was quite thoroughly removed from the items before they were washed in the machine. The dishwasher with the water softeners removed the grease and food films. You basically washed in the left hand bowl and loaded the dishes into the dishwasher on the right for what amounted to hot water rinsing.

I want you to look back at that dishwasher tank. Do you have any idea how much very hot water it would take to heat that up until it did not cool the wash and rinse water? If you wanted half-way decent dishwashing, you had to run several changes of hot water into that tank to heat it before washing dishes. This is why most of these machines were almost more bother than they were worth and were mainly used for rinsing dishes that were already washed. Also remember that storage water heaters were not common in the 20s and 30s, so a house would have to have a good supply of hot water to use a dishwasher, although a home that could afford a dishwasher probably was wealthy enough to have a good supply of hot water.

It is correct that this machine had no timer. The control would have been wash/rinse or drain.


Post# 473282 , Reply# 19   11/3/2010 at 19:59 (4,893 days old) by perc-o-prince (Southboro, Mass)        
Ours is a free standing portable model

There is a lever on the side of ours that in one position you can fill the dishwasher through a telescoping adjustable pipe and in another position to pump out the water. Ours has another pipe that has a type of funnel that I suspect was used for detergent?? It would have to be a liquid as the opening is about as big as a eye dropper. It's a cool dishwasher and as I was running it, for the first time, I couldn't help but think about how excited the original owner must have been with such new technology. I will get pics very soon.

Thanks for all your input and the fantastic sales brochure!! I just wish it showed the model I have :-(

Rich


Post# 473367 , Reply# 20   11/4/2010 at 11:27 (4,893 days old) by CircleW (NE Cincinnati OH area)        

I would also think soap would make too much suds, but the brochure page in Post #473189 states "uses soap flakes effectively". Maybe something else had to be added to control foaming.

As to hot water use, I could see that being a problem. Kohler's website makes mention of the Kohler Electric Sink (introduced in the 20's) which didn't prove too popular for that very reason. I don't know what type of water heaters were available in the 20's (mansions would have had large boilers), but do know that by the 30's any decent house should have had plentiful hot water. One of my relatives had built their house in '36 (nice, but by no means a mansion), and it had a large oil-fired Monel water heater in the basement. They did not however, have a dishwasher. They must have considered one though, as I found information about the GE Electric Sink in the file box.


Post# 473385 , Reply# 21   11/4/2010 at 14:47 (4,893 days old) by petek (Ontari ari ari O )        

petek's profile picture
Wow it looks really interesting. Are you thinking of installing it somewhere so you can actually play with it.
Where'd you find that thing at Larry?


Post# 473402 , Reply# 22   11/4/2010 at 15:52 (4,892 days old) by perc-o-prince (Southboro, Mass)        
Pics!!!

I found this dishwasher on eBay and Larry was kind enough to drive 2hrs each way to pick it up for me and keep it safe in his garage....Thanks again, Larry.

As you can see, from the pics, it needs no hook-up. It wheels about. The first pic shows the Conover closed up with the fill/drain tube over the cover turned up in the fill position. If you follow the pipe down you can see the valve which when in the up position allows the dishwasher to fill and wash. Pull the lever down to activate the drain. Everything is enamel over steel. Even the emblem is enameled on.

More pics to follow...


Post# 473403 , Reply# 23   11/4/2010 at 15:58 (4,892 days old) by perc-o-prince (Southboro, Mass)        

Open with fill arm extended. This would have been rolled up next to a sink and the two way telescoping arm would have been put under the faucet for filling. To drain you would just turn the tube over so that the water would be pumped DOWN into the sink. This was how I found out that it had a pump drain!! In the right area it could double as a fountain :-)

Post# 473405 , Reply# 24   11/4/2010 at 16:02 (4,892 days old) by perc-o-prince (Southboro, Mass)        

This is a closer view of the fill valve. I don't know what the purpose of the tube to the left is. This is what I think may be a detergent dispenser???. The top part of it comes out and it is funnel shaped. Looking down into the pipe it has some purple gunk. This pipe also goes into the pump.

Post# 473408 , Reply# 25   11/4/2010 at 16:05 (4,892 days old) by perc-o-prince (Southboro, Mass)        

View down with all racks in.

Post# 473409 , Reply# 26   11/4/2010 at 16:06 (4,892 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio)        
Conover Pics

akronman's profile picture
Thanks for pics!!!!!!! Congrats on that machine, treat it well.
Again, thanks for posting pics


Post# 473410 , Reply# 27   11/4/2010 at 16:06 (4,892 days old) by perc-o-prince (Southboro, Mass)        

Removable top center rack out for ease of loading bottom.

Post# 473412 , Reply# 28   11/4/2010 at 16:09 (4,892 days old) by perc-o-prince (Southboro, Mass)        

All racks out

Post# 473413 , Reply# 29   11/4/2010 at 16:09 (4,892 days old) by perc-o-prince (Southboro, Mass)        

Final pic...All racks laid out on floor

Post# 473416 , Reply# 30   11/4/2010 at 16:15 (4,892 days old) by perc-o-prince (Southboro, Mass)        

There is a small metal plate that states the model as A - A and the serial number is 13,011. I suspect that these were not made in large numbers and the serial numbers may have been inflated from the start to give the public the impression of larger production/success. This was very common in typewriter production.



Post# 473428 , Reply# 31   11/4/2010 at 19:02 (4,892 days old) by washernoob ()        

One word....


AWESOME!

That is one nice find for sure. Congratulations! I wonder how well these actually clean..... The fan type agitator seems a tad small. But its still cool!


Post# 473429 , Reply# 32   11/4/2010 at 19:05 (4,892 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        
Mint is right

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WOW, Rich that is just beautiful and its mint. Are the racks simply coated with enamel paint or is it some kind of rubberized material?

Post# 473432 , Reply# 33   11/4/2010 at 19:41 (4,892 days old) by 1972LKdishwash ()        
The Conover Dishwasher..late 1930's?

I have never seen anything like this, nor did I know there was such a machine from that era...!!!!! It is simply stunning and the electric sink model is so unique with the sliding top drainboard...!!! What a find and what a collectible for you...congratulations....!!!! How great this is to reflect the modern dishwasher of that TIME. An Electric dishwasher from the 30's....Who Knew?

Post# 473433 , Reply# 34   11/4/2010 at 19:50 (4,892 days old) by perc-o-prince (Southboro, Mass)        
Brandon ...

Thanks!! I am rather happy to have it :-) I haven't tried it with dishes, yet, so I can't tell how well it washes.

Hey Robert. The racks seem to be fired on enamel. There were several shell chips on the racks (I've since touched them up) and shell chipping is most often seen with glass/enamel. What is interesting is that the sales brochure says that the sink model has a rubberized coating.

I just would love to find some more history on the company.

Rich


Post# 473434 , Reply# 35   11/4/2010 at 19:52 (4,892 days old) by perc-o-prince (Southboro, Mass)        
How great this is to reflect the modern dishwasher of that

And it's still quieter than our Frigi Spin Tube!! :-)

Post# 473451 , Reply# 36   11/4/2010 at 21:28 (4,892 days old) by CircleW (NE Cincinnati OH area)        
Very, very nice

Wow, that machine is tops. Looks to have been very lightly used, and well taken care of. The cord however does look like it could use some attention for safety's sake.

Since the company was located in Chicago, perhaps the Chicago public library or historical society there would have info regarding the history of the Conover Co.


Post# 473457 , Reply# 37   11/4/2010 at 22:31 (4,892 days old) by A440 ()        
WOW!

Rich that is an awesome find! In fantastic shape!

Mike thank you so much for the scans of the ads. So interesting!

Brent


Post# 473467 , Reply# 38   11/5/2010 at 01:15 (4,892 days old) by alr2903 (TN)        

Thats a beautiful minty machine. No doubt "modern" detergents for both dishwashers and washing machines really improved performance. alr2903

Post# 473498 , Reply# 39   11/5/2010 at 07:41 (4,892 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

If the impeller is metal, and it almost certainly has to be, it would have performed far better than those later ones made of Bakelite because the edges would start sharp and stay sharp. If you note the cutaway picture showing the mechanism, this must have used a reversing motor since the structure of the impeller and the pump vanes makes them have to turn in opposite directions to do their tasks. Since the portable fills through the same pipe used to drain the machine, I wonder if the machine was filled with the pump turning in the "WASH" direction which would draw water in making it fill faster than if the water had to negotiate the pump chamber using gravity. If the impeller were turning and throwing water as the machine filled, it would also avoid the problem caused by the rapid expansion of the air in the tank that is encountered when very hot water is suddenly thrown up into the room temperature air over it.

We had a D&M Frigidaire portable that started the cycle with a purge with just the drain pump running, then shut off the pump and started the impeller. Maybe it was because we kept our water heater at 160F, but the dishwasher would throw water out of the steam vent at that point. My father tried holding a folded towel over the steam vent to avoid the splash. That caused the cover to buckle and water squirted out at some area around the gasket. Since the fill flume was located in the steam vent, the watery blow back was made possible. They probably should have taken the water down closer to the bottom of the vent through a tube; then it would not have been blown up by the rush of hot air. Frigidaire Service was out a couple of times trying to fix it, but after they tried watching it fill with the lid open and splattered the kitchen ceiling, it left the house and we bought the first Mobile Maid.

This forcible ejecting of water can happen in KA dws that have the Sani-Rinse where the pump stops while the gallon of water is heated to 180F. If the thermostat allows the water to reach temps higher than that, water can be blown out through the vent under the door when the pump restarts.

By the late 30s, the built-in Conover which later became the Westinghouse model was a front opening, undercounter machine.


Post# 473501 , Reply# 40   11/5/2010 at 08:22 (4,892 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
This is a fascinating machine, I hope I get to see it sometime.

Here is the patent for the machine, I haven't had time to read it yet, but I will. This should tell us how it works mechanically...


CLICK HERE TO GO TO Unimatic1140's LINK


Post# 473577 , Reply# 41   11/5/2010 at 19:34 (4,891 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY)        
Hey Rich--I knew it!!

mickeyd's profile picture
There had to be a wringer version of a dishwasher out there some where, and you've found it. I love it. Look at how much it looks like a wringer washer. Even the giant fill and drain arm in the resting position reminds ya of a wringer. What fun you'll have.

And how simply yet brilliantly, they solved the problem of water inlet/hookup/adapter, whatever. It doesn't matter--the universal U-fill ;-> The possibilites of cycle variations: pre-washes, washers, rinses, and soaks are endless and so exciting. How I'd love to have one of these in the kitchen. Good for you. Welcome to Vintage.

Now I'll have to come to Massachusetts sooner or later.


Post# 473583 , Reply# 42   11/5/2010 at 20:10 (4,891 days old) by perc-o-prince (Southboro, Mass)        

" The cord however does look like it could use some attention for safety's sake."...It is very stiff and brittle. I don't want to try replacing it at the motor since I don't know how to do it so what I'm going to try is to coat that part with liquid handle coating. This stays flexible and it's a part of the cord that doesn't move. I will replace the cord at the switch and put on a proper vintage plug.

" I wonder if the machine was filled with the pump turning in the "WASH" direction"...Not the case with this. If you look at the picture of the empty machine you can see the outlet on the right hand side. The water just pours down the tube and directly into the drum. Nothing to stop it. There is a vent on the lid which I would think would be for the pressure and expansion?

The actual patent that is on the machine dates to 1928 and shows this model. The patent number is 1679465.

" I hope I get to see it sometime"...I hope so, too. We are all getting together in January(hint, hint) :-)



Post# 473645 , Reply# 43   11/6/2010 at 08:53 (4,891 days old) by dishwashercrazy (West Peoria, IL)        

dishwashercrazy's profile picture

What more can I say than "INCREDIBLE"!

Congratulation on this wonderful find.



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