Thread Number: 31662
My First Neptune Adventure-- The Smelly Washer |
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Post# 477604 , Reply# 1   11/26/2010 at 05:53 (4,872 days old) by fordtech ()   |   | |
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Another view |
Post# 477605 , Reply# 2   11/26/2010 at 05:55 (4,872 days old) by fordtech ()   |   | |
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Before basket removal |
Post# 477606 , Reply# 3   11/26/2010 at 05:56 (4,872 days old) by fordtech ()   |   | |
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Down in the sump.. OMG! |
Post# 477607 , Reply# 4   11/26/2010 at 05:58 (4,872 days old) by fordtech ()   |   | |
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And basket removed. Look at the buildup all around the spider too! Gross! |
Post# 477609 , Reply# 5   11/26/2010 at 06:01 (4,872 days old) by fordtech ()   |   | |
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But there IS HOPE FRIENDS! Just get down and dirty and clean this horrible mess up! And it will look like this in about an hour or so! |
Post# 477610 , Reply# 6   11/26/2010 at 06:02 (4,872 days old) by fordtech ()   |   | |
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Basket cleaned up |
Post# 477611 , Reply# 7   11/26/2010 at 06:03 (4,872 days old) by fordtech ()   |   | |
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Remember that horrible front cover with saturated brisle seal? |
Post# 477613 , Reply# 8   11/26/2010 at 06:04 (4,872 days old) by fordtech ()   |   | |
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Now this looks a lot healthier! |
Post# 477615 , Reply# 9   11/26/2010 at 06:06 (4,872 days old) by fordtech ()   |   | |
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And now once again a happy model 4000 Neptune is saved from an abusive front load lifestyle that changed radically and we have never had Neptune smells again! |
Post# 477640 , Reply# 11   11/26/2010 at 09:36 (4,871 days old) by georgect (Fairfield, CT)   |   | |
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Post# 477653 , Reply# 12   11/26/2010 at 10:39 (4,871 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas)   |   | |
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My cousin had one of these Neptunes. After about a year the whole house started to smell like a sewer. Yuck. You did a great job cleaning up that machine. Better than new! |
Post# 477657 , Reply# 13   11/26/2010 at 11:44 (4,871 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)   |   | |
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Well if that doesnt convince you about detergent powder with bleach and hot washes nothing will...
I expected to see the spider like the LG thread, I wonder if the crud actually protected it....or is it true to say that those machine spiders didnt rot?? Interesting drum/baffle/spider arrangement,with the baffles covering the screw mounts.. Thanks for enlightening us, Mike |
Post# 477776 , Reply# 17   11/26/2010 at 20:26 (4,871 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida)   |   | |
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I love the before and after...but my question is...what ventalation system?!? What you see at the top of the inner door is the vent for just that...the inner and outer door. The washer is a sealed system and thats one big reason why you have that mold buildup. After the wash is done for the day leave the door open to dry it out. That alone will make sure you dont have any mold issues plus using an HE detergent will make a huge difference. Tide HE Powder does a great job. Just try doing that simple tip will save you from doing a teardown again.
Oh and before I forget to ask...did you remove the baffles in the drum to clean out the mold in them? |
Post# 477789 , Reply# 19   11/26/2010 at 20:56 (4,871 days old) by fordtech ()   |   | |
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I should also add that the 7500 also has an internal heater, which I am sure is helpful as well. |
Post# 477848 , Reply# 20   11/27/2010 at 06:35 (4,871 days old) by mayguy (Minnesota)   |   | |
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Wow! Great job cleaning it up. I would move the hinge on the door, to make loading clothes into the dryer easier! I some time wished I got the Neptune washer to match my dryer. |
Post# 477849 , Reply# 21   11/27/2010 at 06:39 (4,871 days old) by fordtech ()   |   | |
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Thanks Mayguy! Yes I did reverse the door later down the road exactly like you suggest.. :) |
Post# 477864 , Reply# 22   11/27/2010 at 10:44 (4,870 days old) by RevvinKevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land)   |   | |
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I agree completely with Mike on this! For what ever the reason, I just don't care for liquid detergent. Yes I have tried it, but still use and prefer powder. Fordtech, AWESOME JOB of cleaning it all up, but better yet documenting your efforts! That was in pretty disgusting condition inside. It's too bad EVERYONE who insists on using ONLY cold water and liquid detergent can't be made aware by viewing this thread! What detergent do you use (brand, flavor)? BTW... Welcome to Automaticwasher.org! You will enjoy it here! Hopefully you will visit and contribute often! Kevin |
Post# 477877 , Reply# 23   11/27/2010 at 13:56 (4,870 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()   |   | |
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fordtech: Good job, keep sharing the knowledge->it must be documented! |
Post# 478083 , Reply# 26   11/28/2010 at 12:45 (4,869 days old) by fordtech ()   |   | |
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Buck you can do this whole operation in a couple hours, three tops. Scrubbing took the longest. |
Post# 478295 , Reply# 27   11/29/2010 at 11:05 (4,868 days old) by gorenje (Slovenia)   |   | |
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OMG !! Now I can see what you people mean with mold problems and smelly washers.
It was always strange for me (european) to understand why so many people in America have such problems with stinky front loaders. So the problem is cold water, liquid detergent, fabric softener buildup and closed door. One more think could be maybe that in America you have so soft water and for this reason is even harder to rinse out the detergent. you have done a great job, now the machine is like new again :) Ingemar |
Post# 478387 , Reply# 29   11/29/2010 at 18:52 (4,868 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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I an glad you took the time to save this machine and showed us how this is done. The buildup you removed is dirt, oils and fabric softener residue. This is not caused by using to much detergent but rather too little cupeled with cold water which won't remove the before mentioned soils. I tell all my customers with low water use washers to ALWAYS use HOT water when washing regular laundry and to be sure to use enough high quality detergent and you will have no reason to have smelly washers or have to use an cleaning products in the washer. Even with an electric water heater you probably won't spend $20 per year on water heating, thats the beauty of these washers is that they use VERY LITTLE HOT WATER. I do agree that I prefer powered detergents and I do recommend LCB at least once per week be used and only cold rinses to keep bacteria down. But again a great save of a worthy machine, remember the new four Rs REDUCE REUSE REBUILD RECYCLE.
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Post# 478814 , Reply# 36   12/1/2010 at 22:05 (4,866 days old) by powerfin64 (Yakima, Washington)   |   | |
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I had a experience with a not so qualified technican about a year ago.
Story- bought my first front loading washer, which was a Amana. 6 months after I got it, it started to leak from the front boot and the door was sagging a touch. Called amana, repair guy came out, and ordered parts. parts didn't come in, then very shortly after, amana replaced the washer with a new one of the same model, (due to didn't know when parts would be available.) 6 months later, same problems arose with the replaced washer, called amana, and they sent out someone from the same company, who sugguested replacing 2 items. parts were ordered and installed by the same guy. less than 2 months later, same problems AGAIN. Did the same process all over ,and got someone else from the same company to come out and look at it. Told him the whole story of everything, and he told me to, go to where I bought it, and tell them I want a different brand due to all the consistent problems, which I did do. Amana(whirlpool) wanted a different company to check it out. Now, this guy KNEW his stuff. told him the full story, and he pointed out right off the bat, that, This wasn't installed right by the last technician, and asked me if I wanted it fixed or just tell Whirlpool what he found. I didn't want it fixed. After all that was done, I got a different brand front loading washer, which I am very happy with and haven't had any problems at all. Rich |
Post# 478822 , Reply# 37   12/1/2010 at 22:18 (4,866 days old) by sudsmaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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In addition to the onboard heater, another advantage of the 7500/6500 Neptunes is that they incorporate a rapid tumble sequence in the next to last rinse cycle. This helps to loosen any debris that has collected inside the outer drum and flush it down the drain.
I've had my 7500 set since 2001. There has never been a mold/odor problem. I rarely do cold washes - they are either warm or hot, with at least one hot wash per week. I've also never used chlorine bleach in them. STPP gets the duds very clean without needing bleach. In the past year I have noticed some mold collecting under the detergent dispenser door and in the cavity. This is very light and a simple swipe with a sponge gets rid of it. Since there is no mold on the boot and no odor, I doubt this is heppening elsewhere inside the washer. FWIW, the Miele 1918 I keep in the unheated workshop also develops mold in the fabric softener compartment. It's less if I leave it open after washing. But I think the "environmenatally safe" fabric softener might have something to do with the mold development in both the Miele and Neptune, as well as the cold water only supply for the garaged Miele. |
Post# 479306 , Reply# 40   12/4/2010 at 10:20 (4,863 days old) by fordtech ()   |   | |
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This view shows the door removed, and placed where you can see the vented opening at the bottom that is ducted to the air vents at both sides of the top of the door. |
Post# 479310 , Reply# 43   12/4/2010 at 10:32 (4,863 days old) by fordtech ()   |   | |
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And here you see the sump area |
Post# 479313 , Reply# 45   12/4/2010 at 10:39 (4,863 days old) by fordtech ()   |   | |
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Here we see the outside of the stainless spinner basket. This crust is tough as nails! You could grind it off but I dont think it is necessary, as it is thin and doesnt add any significant weight to the basket. |
Post# 479323 , Reply# 47   12/4/2010 at 11:37 (4,863 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)   |   | |
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and so you use a much smaller dose,yes, you are using much less water. However powders unlike liquids depend heavily on buffering agents to soften the water so the surfactant can dissolve into the water and go to work. If the balance between hardness and softness is not just right then hard water will form solids with the builder/softener and also the surfactant used.
It is important to keep the water softened throughout the wash. Also all soils in laundry drive up the acidity of the wash water, soils are acidic by nature. Clearly a regular dose of TIDE HE powder in your water is not enough to keep the wash liquor alkaline through the whole wash cycle. Since you have such hard water you need a booster in there. You can add STPP like you say but you can also add "washing soda" to keep the alkalinity up and plain old washing soda is a lot cheaper and better for the enviroment. That is why I am formulating "SPLASH" to have a powerful, compact alkaline builder for hard water situations such as these. In one recent batch I put too much builder in and got cotton clothes that came out of my Neptune looking like they had been buffed upagainst a sand wheel! So you can have too much alkalinity as well as too much acid. Alkalinity of around 11-14 is a good zone to be in for wash water. Great Job on the Neptune, I love my 10 year old baby, but I also love my American made Speed Queen too! |
Post# 479324 , Reply# 48   12/4/2010 at 11:38 (4,863 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)   |   | |
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Post# 479338 , Reply# 49   12/4/2010 at 12:46 (4,863 days old) by fordtech ()   |   | |
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Thanks Jetcone! Ill work on getting those things corrected. LMK how the "Splash" works out! Thanks for reminding me about CLR, Ill see if I can find some. |
Post# 479419 , Reply# 54   12/4/2010 at 18:35 (4,863 days old) by qsd-dan (West)   |   | |
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I'm looking to purchase a Scalewatcher soon since I have extremely hard water too. It uses electronic frequencies to prevent magnesium and calcium from bonding, thus preventing build-up. Long term use actually descales hard water deposits overtime.
CLICK HERE TO GO TO qsd-dan's LINK |
Post# 479428 , Reply# 55   12/4/2010 at 19:17 (4,863 days old) by fordtech ()   |   | |
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Great! Thanks for the tip and the link Dan! |
Post# 479560 , Reply# 56   12/5/2010 at 10:31 (4,862 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)   |   | |
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about the phosphates gone from EU detergents, what they did in EU is to replace them with zeolites to soften and added a chemical compound ( can't think of what it is right now) to protect machine parts from becoming coated. I'll have to dig out my Henkel formulation book from Germany and look it up, it has a loooonnnnngg name.
Thats why you are seeing good results in the new phosphate free detergents. Fordtech that looks like a clean heater element to me, there was one other descaler I have used that was stronger than CLR, can't think of it right now , if I remember I'll put it up. I think it came in a yellow bottle?? Too much coffee today. |
Post# 479569 , Reply# 57   12/5/2010 at 10:52 (4,862 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)   |   | |
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I would be willing to bet that part of the reason the removal of phosphates has effected cleaning performance in the States is that the wash phase of our machines is kept short and sweet. In the UK, washing goes on and on which is where enzymes will perform their best. Long wash cycles like that in the States will never prevail unless the machine can do three load of clothes at one time, LOL! Americans are just not gonna do laundry everyday, if they can help it.
Malcolm |
Post# 479701 , Reply# 60   12/5/2010 at 20:36 (4,862 days old) by suburbanmd (Maryland, USA)   |   | |
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How about periodic descaling, by running the longest, hottest cycle empty, with some citric acid? |
Post# 479792 , Reply# 61   12/6/2010 at 05:20 (4,862 days old) by fordtech ()   |   | |
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That could be worth a try suburbanmd! |
Post# 479809 , Reply# 62   12/6/2010 at 08:09 (4,861 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Great photo essays again Fordtech I really enjoy your enthusiasm and thoroughness. I don't think there should ever be a reason for periodic washer cleaning if the machine is being used properly. A machine that can't keep it self clean IS NOT producing CLEAN CLOTHES I have never had any build up issues in any of the TL or FL washers that I have used for years and I don't have a water softener or live in a soft water area. There many rules to good laundry practices many of which have been discussed here. But in general use at least 100 degree water in the tub all the time { this means in a FL washer using the hot setting all the time ] for washing. Cold water is better for rinsing it helps keep bacteria and mold growth down. Too much detergent will never cause any type of build up in a washing machine, its too little that is the problem. Most of the problems we see are with Amway, Shaklee, Sears and the budget brands from the stores.
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Post# 479814 , Reply# 63   12/6/2010 at 09:04 (4,861 days old) by suburbanmd (Maryland, USA)   |   | |
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combo52, if your water comes from WSSC's Patuxent plant, it's soft. From the Potomac plant, a little bit hard. If it comes from a well, that's a different story. CLICK HERE TO GO TO suburbanmd's LINK |
Post# 479946 , Reply# 64   12/6/2010 at 19:58 (4,861 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Post# 480067 , Reply# 66   12/7/2010 at 10:00 (4,860 days old) by iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)   |   | |
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Post# 480176 , Reply# 72   12/7/2010 at 18:51 (4,860 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Fordtech and 3beltwesty you both need to use more detergent or install a water softener. Any washer that is developing a build up of any kind is not giving you the cleanest, whitest and softest clothing. Periodically using cleaners or using hot water are not the best way to do laundry or take care of your machine. Why not do it correctly all the time? Doing it this way is like not changing your engines oil for 30,000 miles at a time and trying to clean up the damage later. The main seals and water pump and your expensive clothing are all being damaged by poor laundry practices. I am not trying to be hard on anyone but both of you are very smart mechanical type people and thier is a fairly simple solution to mineral buildup, you will never need to take apart one of your machines again to clean it.
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Post# 480178 , Reply# 73   12/7/2010 at 18:58 (4,860 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()   |   | |
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Just curious here John, For a Maytag Neptune, how much liquid or powdered soap should one use per load? |
Post# 480199 , Reply# 76   12/7/2010 at 20:30 (4,860 days old) by 3beltwesty ()   |   | |
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I was thinking probably of my friends who have powercoating settups for smaller parts, they have an old kitchen type oven in their garages. Thus the limit is the dinky oven, |
Post# 480281 , Reply# 77   12/8/2010 at 07:27 (4,859 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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It would be interesting to see how well this would hold up on restoration projects, I may have to give this a try. I have access to a place that can even coat and bake whole car frames. The only case of a manufacturer using powder-coating on washer parts that were regularly subjected to water were the Magic Chef { Norge ] washer baskets and they didn't hold up as well as the porcelain baskets did. But I still think it might be a good idea for restoring old machines that might not get real heavy service. Over the years I have had good luck with two part marine epoxy paint for outer tubs etc. When I have had occasion to dismantle some of these machines years later the epoxy paint had usually held up very well.
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Post# 480310 , Reply# 79   12/8/2010 at 10:53 (4,859 days old) by 3beltwesty ()   |   | |
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When one gets rust bullet one ones hands, glasses or tools it basically has to be worn off. Some I go no my hand 4 years ago came off after weeks. |