Questions about various FL washers


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Questions about various FL washers

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Post# 478748 12/1/2010 at 17:10 (4,887 days old) by charlesp210 ()
Checkrate/Likes It's time (finally) to replace my 9 year old Whirlpool Calypso. Until now, I've been generally satisfied, only needed one repair (new pump) until now which cost me nothing at 3 years under Best Buy extended warranty. Two things I have really liked about it are that it's incredibly gentle on most clothes (others it can destroy, but I know what to avoid). And it's fairly quiet (machine room is right next to master bedroom, I never hear it until it shakes the drain hose during spin). It's not very good at washing allergen proof duvet (requires constant attention for deflating monster air bubble) and I wouldn't even attempt comforter for similar reasons (heard horror stories about washing comforter in Calypso). I've really intended to go with Front Loader Next TIme for some time now. Front Loaders seem to combine excellent washing performance (better than Calypso most likely), gentleness on clothes, and I'm hoping would wash pillows, duvet, and queen size comforter. I've read the caveats on preventing mold buildup. I expect to run one hot/bleach load weekly as I do now for same reason (ran out of bleach last month and now Calypso stinks). I hope to get a pedestal for convenience, though plan to stick with my unpedestaled Neptune Dryer (I dump dry clothes from there into basket). I've never had or even imagined a dryer as good as the Real Maytag Neptune Dryer. Three options suggest themselves to me, since I kinda like "the best" (which had been my intent in buying Calypso) at least from my vantage point. I avoid cheap when buying new products. TOL Whirlpool Duet with Steam and ventilation fan Miele 4842 Speed Queen Imperial AF51F Electrolux Wave Touch EWFLS70JMB Now I like the looks and description of the Speed Queen generally, especially the rotary controls (no more membrane xxxx). But is the 3.3cu ft tub really enough to wash a queen sized comforter? And how noisy is it, really? (I noticed, FWIW, that a leading consumer magazine (LCM) gives the lower model SQ they tested half black marks for noise and vibration). Interestingly, however, (and in contrast to one mistaken internet review based on this same LCM report) it scored excellent on gentleness, which is IMO the most important feature (I hate to buy new clothes, as it's always nearly impossible to find ones as good as last time). As for the Miele, I was all set to look into that more, but noticed that LCM actually gave the Miele, which brags about the gentleness of their patented drum, only an average score for gentleness (open circle, that's actually labeled good now, but less good than very good or excellent of most recommended models). I'm also a bit concerned about even getting Miele service in my area (San Antonio, TX) and the high price of said service (after very high priced factory service agreement runs out). Then there's the Electrolux, which seems to get great reviews everywhere. But just like Whirlpool (and even Miele nowadays!) it's another machine made in Mexico, and LCM doesn't even give it a 5 year reliability score (apparently not enough reports). In fact, right now I'd say it looks like the Electrolux is my best choice, I just don't know if it's really worth more than the Whirlpool. Which brings me back to Whirlpool, as is their standard, it has one more feature than even the TOL Electrolux, the built-in ventilation fan, which might be worth having. And despite ranting bad reviews about Whirlpool FL's on every site, it still gets a nearly top reliability rating in LCM. (You don't want to know the brand that gets the top rating(s), I won't buy that one regardless of what they say because I don't trust cheap whatever they say.) CLICK HERE TO GO TO charlesp210's LINK

Post# 478757 , Reply# 1 12/1/2010 at 17:33 (4,887 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)
Checkrate/Likes *Speed Queen Imperials* I happen to own the SQ Imperial set. I like them a lot. A LOT! However, they are not the quietest machines on the market and probably not a good idea on a non-concrete floor. Speed Queen targets longevity over quietness. Especially since they market generally towards a commercial environment. Not sure about a queen sized comforter, but I can wash a heavy queen sized blanket without batting a eye. (it does have a 1hp motor) If the SQ turns out to be not for you, I would suggest the Miele on your list followed by the Whirlpool. Malcolm

Post# 478761 , Reply# 2 12/1/2010 at 18:15 (4,887 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)
Checkrate/Likes me i would go with this model made by whirlpool its also the new duet with the precesion detergent dispenser and you have the advantage thats its also quiet. CLICK HERE TO GO TO pierreandreply4's LINK

Post# 478766 , Reply# 3 12/1/2010 at 18:44 (4,887 days old) by laundromat (Hilo, Hawaii)
Checkrate/Likes I was at Sears and saw the new Duets.They're real nice and the new style was a great step up from the original.The matching dryer also has a SS drum.

Post# 478776 , Reply# 4 12/1/2010 at 20:16 (4,887 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)
Checkrate/Likes *NEW FL WASHER* The SQ would be hands down the top choice, I have both a Calypso and SQ front load washer in my laundry area and even though the SQ is not the quietest FLer its much quieter that the Calypso, unless your machine is on a wooden floor that has some give in it. FL washers in general exert about 4 times the stress on a floor than TL washers do. 2nd choice would be the WP FLer. WP is the worlds largest and best overall builder of home laundry appliances and they generally do not disappoint you when it comes to performance and reliability. Frigidare is the good economy choice but never my first choice if top quality and longevity is your main concern. Just some general thoughts from my experience from repairing over 1000 laundry products per year and selling and recommending another 1-2 thousand machines per year.

Post# 478808 , Reply# 5 12/1/2010 at 21:44 (4,887 days old) by charlesp210 ()
Checkrate/Likes Thanks!! It's clear now that I would not want to wash my comforter in 3.3 cu ft Speed Queen based on other discussion forums. So, OK, I guess I could live with that, after all, that's what I've been doing until now anyway. My laundry room is right next to master bathroom, on cheap linoleum floor on top of concrete slab. Would I need to remove linoleum floor and set SQ on bare concrete for best results? Even the concrete slab is only guaranteed to be 3" thick as I understand it. What is the effect of pedestal? Today I checked out Whirlpool Duet at Sears. They did not have the model Pierreandreply4 suggested which I'll abbreviate to 97, the current TOTL. They had the 95, 94, and smaller 9550. Only 95 and 94 had fan fresh which sounds like a very good idea to me as I'm often in the midst of critical work/play when washer finishes. I haven't figured out difference between 95 and 94 except 95 costs $180 more. Unless I see some important difference between 95 and 94 I might go with 94 (WFW94HEX) which is also the highest rated Whirlpool in leading consumer magazine (they didn't test 95 or 97) and rates just below brands I'd rather not mention (which happen to all be made by same manufacturer).

Post# 478820 , Reply# 6 12/1/2010 at 22:13 (4,887 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)
Checkrate/Likes I love my new Frigidaire with the 4.8 cu. ft. tub. It's made by Electrolux and seems to have some features handed down from that upscale brand. I don't often fill the tub completely, but when I need to, I'm glad to have that super capacity, as when washing comforters or huge loads of bath towels. I was also surprised to find that even very small loads (2 dress shirts and a pair of slacks, for example) tumbled well in the giant tub. In my old washer, which had more water in the tub, a small load would just roll over and over itself. The new washer is able to accomplish a great lift-and-drop with even a tiny load. The Whirlpools have a proven track record and, I believe, quite a large tub. It seems you are not at all into purchasing an LG...but the people I know who own them have had no problems, and LG has a dedicated steam generator which will produce more steam than the Electrolux and probably even the Whirlpool. Their reliability has increased to the top of CR's list. Quite honestly, I would have purchased a TOL LG pair if money was no object. But it was....so I got a TOL Frigidaire pair for $1,900. There are a couple of things that annoy me (getting a truly hot wash involves using the Allergy option or the Sanitize cycle), but overall I'm very happy with them. The steam function on the dryer has turned out to be my favorite feature. Let us know which one you decide to get!

Post# 478829 , Reply# 7 12/1/2010 at 22:39 (4,887 days old) by charlesp210 ()
Checkrate/Likes Thanks Frigilux and others. So is the dedicated steam with LG fundamentally different than the "steam" with Whirlpool and Electrolux? LG just seem cheap to me, lighter weight construction, may be fine anyway, but i note there are very small differences in reliability chart and LG hasn't been around as long as others. Just now figured that Electrolux reliability is actually shown in chart as "Frigidaire" since they've been the same factory for some time, so they should be OK too. Comparing the features of different Whirlpool models, I see that I do need WFW95HEX to actually get steam. (It's hard to compare because Whirlpool doesn't give you a cross comparison chart with everything, and when you print out individual machines the features are listed in different order. It's like they don't really want you to know.) I think steam is a significant plus, worth $180 unless it would cause reliability problems. Interesting that the magazine didn't test either top Whirlpool with Steam. The 3 top models I call 97, 95, 94 have Precision Dispense, but 94 has plain Precision Dispense, 95 has Precision Dispense Plus, and 97 has Precision Dispense Ultra. Is that difference important? The 97 has these additional features: Hand Wash Cycle Full Color Widescreen LCD display Stain Assist 20 hour delay (instead of 16 or 12) Specialty Cycles My Cycle Troubleshooting Information I think I could live without those, and I'm worried LCD is a potential future reliability problem unless it uses LED backlight.

Post# 478837 , Reply# 8 12/1/2010 at 23:02 (4,887 days old) by appnut (TX)
Checkrate/Likes The WFW94HEX has a 3 compartment dispenser and about 11 hour delay wash ooption and the WFW95HEX has a 4-compartment diispenser and 16 hour delay wash option. My best suggestion would be to go to the Whirlpool web site and download the user manual for the two models and study them. And other information between the two. I'm even sumped a little bit and that's very rare for me around here.

Post# 478883 , Reply# 9 12/2/2010 at 03:40 (4,887 days old) by logixx (Germany)
Checkrate/Likes The 94 lacks a steam option, I think. "Steam for Stains" it's called. However, I wonder how these new Whirlpools produce steam when the parts list for them does not indicate any type of steam generator. Instead, the 94 "just" has the regular Stain Treat option, which gradually heats the water over the course of the wash. I also wonder why they removed the Max Rinse aka Skin Care Rinse feature on the new models?! What I do like about the newer and some of the older Whirlpools is that you can select the Sanitize wash temp on three or four cycles, not just one. All in all, I'd probably go for the WFW9750: large, many options, Max Rinse and the price is right, too.

Post# 478886 , Reply# 10 12/2/2010 at 04:30 (4,887 days old) by dj-gabriele ()
Checkrate/Likes Well, on my (European) point of view and personal experience: I'd say to get Miele as first choice, they're not "tanks" as one can believe but they're really well built even if the styling is terrible! Then I'd go for a Speed Queen (only if you get the commercial stuff) then Electrolux (that is really hit-and-miss) and last Whirlpool, the absolute cr*p in my opinion, my machine had 3 major repairs under warranty and my father went through 2 dreamspace machines (the EU Duets) in 2 years, now we have a classic 5 kg Candy washer at home... Steam, tub motions, venting fan, stain assist, colour display, are just useless marketing gimmicks! Otherwise, I'd get a machine with inbuilt heater that really boosts water temperature to at least 160�F on ANY cycle and that has a spin speed greater than 1200 rpm and that has a serviceable pump filter oh and NO welded tubs ;)

Post# 478896 , Reply# 11 12/2/2010 at 06:10 (4,887 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)
Checkrate/Likes *Speed Queen* The Speed Queen on linoleum over concrete would work just fine. Mine is installed in a laundry room right next to the master bedroom and I don't hear it until the final spin. Malcolm

Post# 478920 , Reply# 12 12/2/2010 at 07:50 (4,886 days old) by hoover1100 (U.K.)
Checkrate/Likes *From my experience* Definately Miele, very quiet in operation, and the best wash, rinse and spin results of any machine, and the most gentle on fabrics IMO. Both Miele and Speed Queen are miles ahead of Whirlpool and Electrolux in terms of build quality and performance. Personally having used Speed Queen machines in a shared laundry in an Apartment I lived in, I was very dissappointed with their wash and in particular, rinse performance (despite doing 3 rinses by default, and filling from cold water only and heating) They also had recurring electronic faults which constantly required service (ok, more understandable in a commercial environment, but still more than I'd expect from fairly modern commercial machines). That's just my take on the machines anyway. Matt

Post# 478923 , Reply# 13 12/2/2010 at 07:57 (4,886 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)
Checkrate/Likes *SQ FL WASHERS* Will easily wash queen sized confronters, we do our king sized ones in it with no problems. I see almost no advantage in steam cycles its just more potential problems with very little benefit, this feature will never become that common on most washers.

Post# 478936 , Reply# 14 12/2/2010 at 09:29 (4,886 days old) by danmantn (Tennessee)
Checkrate/Likes Don't base home SQ performance on what you see in the laundromat as the owner of the laundromat can make the wash as "cheap" as possible...reducing was times, etc. I went to one laundromat where the 50 lb machine completed in about 20 mins....i could have done better with a water hose! I had to rewash the comforter at another laundromat that washed for 55 minutes for the same amount of money. Also, if you are concerned with size, do some laundromat shopping for ones that has the newer SQ front loaders and give it a spin. The 'mats near my house has them...but make sure they are the newer models that match SQ home offering...some have older FL models out there and may not be same size. You can also obtain cycle info from SQ.

Post# 478956 , Reply# 15 12/2/2010 at 11:54 (4,886 days old) by hoover1100 (U.K.)
Checkrate/Likes *Don't base home SQ performance on what you see in the la* Well these machines filled from cold, heated to selected temperature then washed for a while at the set temperature and did 3 rinses with interim spins (5 long-ish bursts) after wash and between each rinse. The water level for wash and rinse was up onto the door seal. The total wash time on a 40c (warm) wash was just over an hour. Yet still the wash and rinse results were not up to much. I don't know how this differs from the domestic versions but I can't imagine them being too different. That was my experience anyway. Matt

Post# 478994 , Reply# 16 12/2/2010 at 16:15 (4,886 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)
Checkrate/Likes *Different* Sounds like the SQ machines over seas are quite different from here in their motherland. They certainly aren't cold fill only machines here. Malcolm

Post# 478997 , Reply# 17 12/2/2010 at 16:19 (4,886 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)
Checkrate/Likes *SQ FL WASHERS* Will easily wash queen sized confronters, we do our king sized ones in it with no problems. I see almost no advantage in steam cycles its just more potential problems with very little benefit, this feature will never become that common on most washers.

Post# 479021 , Reply# 18 12/2/2010 at 18:17 (4,886 days old) by charlesp210 ()
Checkrate/Likes Thanks for continuing dialog!!! Last night I stayed up very late reading the consumer magazine (back to 2007), online info, discussion here, and more. I have tentatively decided on the very model logixx suggests, the Whirlpool WFW9750WW. It has a slightly smaller tub than the 3 I originally suggested, 4.5 cf, but is the top model in that size, therefore has the Steam (as good as any other whirlpool anyway, it's a "Duet Steam" model after all), the fan, everything I think is important, but plain LED readout, which I think is less frilly anyway. This also happens to be the #2 rated Whirlpool in the 2010 magazine. The #1 is the 94 discussed above, a model which lacks fan and steam, but is larger size. Every category score is identical between #1 and #2, but for some reason #1 gets one overall point higher (and just a couple of points lower than the low featured Kenmore-by-LG which rates highest). I feel I don't need the larger size, and not needing it, I'm probably better off without it. #2 also has one of the lowest if not THE lowest cycle time listed for a front loader, 65 minutes. Reading here, it seems that low cycle time can mean less wear on clothes (plus of course being more convenient). #1 is 75 minutes, and the Kenmore-by-LG is 100 minutes. Both #1 and #2 are rated as being "very good" on gentleness. The only models that rate better ("excellent") are made by LG. Now going back to 2007, the equivalent #1 and #2 whirlpools showed the slightly smaller one getting the higher rating either because of better gentleness or cleaning performance. (LG still got the best rating for gentleness then too.) Thinking that they set both models to meet the same water saving standards, there may be some advantage in the slightly smaller tub having better puddle of water. This pattern does not extend to the still smaller whirlpool tub sizes, however, which often lack cleaning performance or gentleness or both. Maybe in the smaller tub clothes have greater tendency to hit the tub rather than water. My theory on LG having best "gentleness" consistently years back is that the flimsier drum/spider allows more give, therefore being easier on the clothes while it lasts. It could also use more plastic inside the drum (I haven't checked that part out yet). Many other theories are possible here related to motion, water level, etc. Unfortunately for both Miele and Speed Queen, they are both one step down from the top Whirlpools for (rated) gentleness, which I feel is very important. This is very strange considering that Miele even uses special patented drum specifically for greater gentleness. But apparently that doesn't help much in the test the magazine does. Now the Miele does have "excellent" cleaning performance (better than Whirlpool) so perhaps they have chosen to maximize cleaning at slight cost in gentleness while Whirlpool went the other way. The Speed Queen, strangely, has only "good" performance both for cleaning and gentleness, one step down from Whirlpool in both. I'm thinking either drum is too small (which seems to affect smaller Whirlpools also) or maybe it's related to heavier duty metal and spider (no give) and metal baffles. It doesn't look like local stores carry this model in stock, typical disappointment. I can order through store, but I wonder if, as long as I'm doing special order anyway, why not buy through online store for $400 less. Delivery through local stores hasn't given me special reason to recommend them, though last time, uncharacteristically, I had nice Refrigerator delivery from Sears (after only one cancellation instead of the usual three, one cancellation is par because sales is always giving you bs).

Post# 479056 , Reply# 19 12/2/2010 at 21:00 (4,886 days old) by charlesp210 ()
Checkrate/Likes Found Whirlpool WFW9750WW at Lowes tonight, and ordered it on the spot with pedestal and 4 year warranty extension. Delivery (from Warehouse near Dallas) is scheduled for next Thursday. Haven't got room in my museum for the Calypso, so it gets hauled away (free delivery and haul away, and Lowe's e warranty cost 1/3 the one from Sears...who never mentioned this model). Lowes seems to have more Whirlpool, Maytag, Electrolux, and Frigidaire on display than anyone else around here. Best Buy online set price $300 higher under Special Order, in store they had only one Whirlpool and one Maytag (both cheap models) on display, hard to find amidst the rows of LG and Samsung. Home Depot had lots of cheap TL Maytag and but just one FL.

Post# 479059 , Reply# 20 12/2/2010 at 21:11 (4,886 days old) by appnut (TX)
Checkrate/Likes I tink ya made a very good choiice. I'll bundle up my laundry and roll it down I-35 for ya!! ;-)

Post# 479180 , Reply# 21 12/3/2010 at 11:11 (4,885 days old) by 3beltwesty ()
Checkrate/Likes In southern Mississippi Home Depot in FL washers carries GE, Amana, Maytag and LG. Lowes carries Electrolux, Samsung, Whirlpool, Frigidaire, Maytag. For November both stores dropped prices and hand many units on sale. Who makes what seems to be a game as always. The lowest cost FL washer was at HD; 349 for the Amana 4.0 CU FT NFW7300WW, normally 549. At that price I guess you just chuck the machine if it dies in 5 years. The patent plate on this low cost machine is Whirlpool. There was a floor model with a small dent in the side they had on sale for 279. HD's other low cost FL was a 3.8 CU FT GE GFWN1000LWW for 399; marked down from 599. The LG at the local HD is their premium priced FL washers. They were pushing the LG Steam washer WM2501HWA on sale for 599 more than the on sale WM2101HW for 499. The most expensive FL LG was a WM3875HVCA for 1349 a 4.8 cu ft. Having looked at washers at HD for the last year; theses are the lowest front loader prices I have ever seen. Even the token TL washer had a low cost model; a Maytag MVWC300VW FOR 249 dollars.

Post# 479185 , Reply# 22 12/3/2010 at 12:01 (4,885 days old) by 3beltwesty ()
Checkrate/Likes With LG; there seems to be a game as to what "true balance" is. The same machine at Sears has a blurb about being true balance; where home depot did not have this on their tags and adverts. It turns out that there are several levels of true balance. The steam washer WM2501HWA has a better balance settup and is the one recommended for 2nd floor usage compared to the lessor models. The weird thing is the lessor models have shocks and the balance balls in the drum to; thus the betterment might be software :) or better/more shocks.

Post# 479193 , Reply# 23 12/3/2010 at 12:31 (4,885 days old) by fordtech ()
Checkrate/Likes I think a lot of the low pricing was the government incentives paid to the manufacturers this year for energystar ratings. If they dont get those next year you may never see prices like that again. It sure ticks you off though when you get a huge energy star discount in the summer and other discounts and find the same price with no energy star discounts a couple months later. Looks like I replaced all my appliances a few months too early. I would say Ill remember next time but that should be a long time from now.

Post# 479197 , Reply# 24 12/3/2010 at 12:40 (4,885 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There�s a Lady on Stage)
Checkrate/Likes *Gentleness In Front Loaders* Is also in relation to how much water they use for wash cycles. Tumbling items for long periods of time with low water levels leads to more abrasion, regardless of Miele's "drum design". Consumer Reports has noted that as more front loaders become stingy with water levels and or increased cycle times, they are increasingly becoming hard on textiles.

Post# 479363 , Reply# 25 12/4/2010 at 14:53 (4,884 days old) by 3beltwesty ()
Checkrate/Likes The old LT570 White Westinghouse FL here from 1976 was rated by Consumer Reports around 76/78 as the washer using the least amount of water. It uses about anywhere between 10 to 30 gallons total, depending on where the water level control is set. The 1976 WCI Marketing brochure calls this a "New Generation Washer" ; there are tables on the water savings per year and dollars saved with gas and electric hot water heaters. "In todays' economy, saving is on everyone's mind" Also the 1976 marketing is that this front loader is more gentles on the clothes, they last longer. In that era; the top 4 best top loaders used 47 gallons of water

Post# 479364 , Reply# 26 12/4/2010 at 14:58 (4,884 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)
Checkrate/Likes *Speed Queen Imperial* I must say that my SQ has an impressive old school feel about it. It reminds me of the early Westinghouse machines that alternated tumble direction. An instant classic in my laundry room. Malcolm

Post# 479462 , Reply# 27 12/4/2010 at 21:58 (4,884 days old) by danmantn (Tennessee)
Checkrate/Likes It was a rainy, cold day and I spent some quality time with the SQ top load...felt like a kid again in the mid 80s....gosh, I love that thing. :)

Post# 479558 , Reply# 28 12/5/2010 at 10:26 (4,883 days old) by PassatDoc (Orange County, California)
Checkrate/Likes *comforters and capacity* I have a 3.5 cu ft Frig 2140, which was mid-size in 2006 when I purchased it: Maytags were 3.3, Duets were 3.7-3.8, and square-door Frigidaire was mid-sized for that era (the older Frigidaire is still made and is 3.1 cu ft). Now, of course, 3.5 is considered small today. I have a king size comforter set from IKEA (see link) which is a combination set: one lighter weight and one mid weight comforter, which can be used separately or snapped together. The lighter comforter is suitable for summer use, the heavier one for spring and fall. The two comforters are supposed to be snapped together to form one THICK comforter, but I generally avoid this because the combined comforters are so thick and bulky that it's hard to insert into/remove from a duvet, unless the opening runs the entire length of a side of the duvet. Trying to push the thick combination through a one meter slit in one side is hopeless. So instead, I give each comforter its own duvet and, in very cold weather, I use one on top of the other, but not snapped together. These comforters have a synthetic filling, which is great for me because I have allergy issues with down. I can fit the thinner comforter in my 3.5 cu ft Frigidaire, but I can't fit the thicker one and have to take it to a laundromat and use a triple loader machine when it needs laundering. I have friends with a 3.8 cu ft Duet, but don't know anyone with a larger (4-4.5 cu ft) machine to be able to test whether the heavier comforter fits inside the largest home machines. CLICK HERE TO GO TO PassatDoc's LINK

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