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Thread Number: 31872
I Love the Smell of Ozone In the Morning |
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Post# 480585 12/9/2010 at 18:32 (4,885 days old) by rp2813  (Sannazay) |
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My 1985 Thermador THD 3600 dishwasher has developed an ozone smell inside the tub. It seems to be operating normally and there is no smell of ozone while it's running, but open the door the next morning and the odor wafts into the kitchen.
I noticed this the other morning when going to empty it from a regular wash cycle the night before. Last night I ran a rinse/hold and this morning the odor is even stronger, yet no smell while the machine was operating last night. I don't see any stray items or debris (meltable or otherwise) anywhere inside the tub. I get the feeling I'm flirting with disaster (some would probably say I started doing that the day it was installed). Any ideas or advice out there? | ||
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| Post# 480613 , Reply# 1 12/9/2010 at 19:46 (4,885 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod) | ||
Hmmmmmm. | ||
| Post# 480615 , Reply# 2 12/9/2010 at 19:52 (4,885 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida) | ||
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Post# 480622 , Reply# 3 12/9/2010 at 20:05 (4,885 days old) by turquoisedude (.) |
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Post# 480631 , Reply# 5 12/9/2010 at 20:58 (4,885 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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| Post# 480641 , Reply# 6 12/9/2010 at 22:42 (4,885 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida) | ||
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Post# 480676 , Reply# 8 12/10/2010 at 00:37 (4,885 days old) by CircleW (NE Cincinnati OH area) |
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If I had any doubts about the safety of the machines wiring, I would disconnect it whenever leaving or going to bed. | ||
| Post# 480681 , Reply# 10 12/10/2010 at 01:08 (4,885 days old) by qsd-dan (West) | ||
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Post# 480688 , Reply# 11 12/10/2010 at 02:00 (4,885 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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All my partner wants from this machine is distance. He'll scoff at me tending to it when I remove the panel.
Here's a picture of the panel from this past January when we were preparing it for installation. I think I can rule out the timer, as it runs through the cycles fine. I think I can also rule out the heating element, as the dishes were dry after the wash cycle. I'm wondering if one of the temperature sensors shown in the picture could have blown. There's no burnt smell, and the wiring and connections were all in good shape, as you can see. 
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| Post# 480697 , Reply# 12 12/10/2010 at 04:47 (4,885 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO) | ||
Ozone and Rubber
This doesn't answer you're question, but I've heard that when rubber is constantly exposed to ozone, it will break down. Not good for seals and things that are inside the machine. Do you crack the door open door after the load is done?
Have you recently switched to the "no phosphate", type of detergent? Maybe that could have something to do with it. They've probably put more bleach or something else in it to compensate for the lack of phosphate. My parents have tons of phosphate. They can't mess me up. | ||
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Post# 480700 , Reply# 13 12/10/2010 at 05:02 (4,885 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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I have a stash of phosphated Cascade so it's not a detergent issue.
I think the first attempt should be to examine the temp sensors and see if there's any visual evidence of failure. If not, then I'll need to set it for "Full Steam," "Heavy Steam" and "Sanitize" with a circuit tester on each sensor. That's just a guess. It may not be that simple. And so my search for a Whisper Quiet KUDS-22 intensifies. It's really the best solution, and will bring peace and quiet to the household in more ways than one. | ||
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Post# 480714 , Reply# 14 12/10/2010 at 06:56 (4,885 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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OZONE DISHWASHER
I don't know what you are smelling but it is most unlikely that the DW is producing Ozone gas. There is nothing electrical is inside the tub except the heating element and in order for it to arc enough to produce Ozone it would not function for more than about a minute and just completely burn out as it is exposed to water & detergent.I would try running the machine on the air dry function to see if that makes a difference in the smell. It may be time to find look for the 10-20 year old WP Power-Clean or LKM Ultra-Wash DW. In any case I don't think it is dangerous. The WP KM dishwashers in this era are by far the best cleaning, best drying and most reliable dishwashers made in modern history. The high end models are also very quiet and parts are easy to find 2nd choice for me would be a KDS 23 as they did away with the yucky filter. I should have taken pictures of the filter in my KDSS-20 after washing just four loads of dishes on Saturday after we prepared and served 70 men at out annual holiday car club dinner.
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Post# 480796 , Reply# 16 12/10/2010 at 17:33 (4,884 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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Thanks for the additional information, and for the suggestions for replacement machines.
After checking again today, it appears the smell is actually in the tub, as the openings on the door panel didn't smell like anything. I'll continue using the machine and try to sniff things out, but at this point I'm all about pursuing replacement. When I'm at my desk upstairs and can hear the Thermador running downstairs, particularly during the rinse cycles, it's pretty ridiculous. I know there are much quieter machines that can get the job done as well or better. | ||
| Post# 480798 , Reply# 17 12/10/2010 at 17:49 (4,884 days old) by cornutt (Huntsville, AL USA) | ||
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It could be coming from your hot water. Do you smell it if you run hot water at the sink? If you have an electric water heater, it could be that you have an element failing, or the anode rod needs replacing. | ||
| Post# 480800 , Reply# 18 12/10/2010 at 18:01 (4,884 days old) by qsd-dan (West) | ||
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Post# 480917 , Reply# 19 12/11/2010 at 08:54 (4,884 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Post# 480997 , Reply# 20 12/11/2010 at 13:48 (4,883 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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| Post# 481065 , Reply# 22 12/11/2010 at 21:08 (4,883 days old) by qsd-dan (West) | ||
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I vote for fixing the KDS-20 and just putting some time and effort in wrapping the tank with some good quality sound deadening material as well as stuffing some behind the door and lower kick panels too. That's probably what manufacturers did with whisper quiet machines.
I had a buddy whose dad cut out a 3 piece section of old carpet that was being ripped out and disposed of. He pulled out the noisy dishwasher they had at the time and stapled the carpet to the sides and back of the dishwasher insert. He said it made a huge difference in noise reduction. There are many viable ways to reduce the DB's of an old KA dishwasher to reasonable levels with a little ingenuity and effort. | ||
| Post# 481069 , Reply# 23 12/11/2010 at 21:49 (4,883 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod) | ||
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Just My Thoughts... | ||
| Post# 481072 , Reply# 24 12/11/2010 at 22:07 (4,883 days old) by qsd-dan (West) | ||
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I also love the sound of the KDS-19, especially when it fires up after pre-heating! Ok, I'll be honest. I also like to watch visitors jump out of their skin when it fires up, even after a warning 
I'm willing to bet the dishwasher noise probably doesn't bother Ralph much, it's the noise of his significant other  about the dishwasher that he can't tolerate.
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Post# 481094 , Reply# 25 12/12/2010 at 01:22 (4,883 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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Dan, you are so right!
Steve, thanks for the guidance. I can see where a 21 series would be the better option. The motor on the KDS-20 is fairly loud, and I still have not gone back to revisit the issue of communication breakdown between timer and drain solenoid. It's gotten to be time to open it back up and do some more investigating. | ||
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Post# 481548 , Reply# 26 12/13/2010 at 23:34 (4,881 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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It's Gone
The smell, that is, not the machine -- yet!
After a rinse-hold tonight, it just smells like the inside of a Thermador. My theory is that something was stuck on the heating element, and it's been there for a while. For a few months there has been mild burning smell during the heated dry cycle. Apparently the element never got hot enough to burn whatever it was completely off within the time constraints of a drying cycle. With the arrival of the ozone smell, the burning smell disappeared. Now both are gone. I think whatever was stuck to the element has finally burnt off. Now if I could just get rid of that third noise the machine makes, besides the sound of the motor and the jets of water, it's the random yet constant cavitational-esque racket from which the machine has earned its nickname. Interestingly, it makes the noise less when it's fairly empty, and more when it's got a full load. | ||
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Post# 481604 , Reply# 28 12/14/2010 at 09:46 (4,881 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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DW WATER LEVEL
Very good point to check Stevet. Many many dishwashers over ten years old [ and some even newer ] need a new inlet valve to achieve proper performance. It is easy to see if this is the problem on your TD DWer, when the machine is making this sound just stop it open the door and add at least 2 quarts of hot water and see if the sound changes, if so you need a new inlet valve or have other water supply issues.
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Post# 481658 , Reply# 29 12/14/2010 at 12:39 (4,881 days old) by Toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
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Of course this CANT be the problem, but a stinky machine can come from rubber/plastic items hitting the heating element such as an old-fashioned pacifier.
Have you tried running the machine with bleach then detergent while empty? Another option may be Cascade Plastics Booster, which is basically peroxide and fake pine scent. I understand that masking the cause of the problem is not a solution, but I have to agree that ozone itself may be hard to generate in a DW. I'm sticking to something having melted on the heating element but such that it doesn't smell at the moment the machine is drying. | ||
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Post# 481662 , Reply# 30 12/14/2010 at 12:54 (4,880 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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Steve and John, that water level theory matches mine exactly, and yes, I thought about how a larger load would cause the water to drop back down more slowly. I checked the float after the tub had filled and it can come up quite a bit further before I hear the click.
The fill is timed. It's two minutes long. When the TT was installed, we took the inlet from the Motley Maytag it replaced because the one on the TT leaked. Nate cleaned it up as best he could before installing it, because it had quite a bit of rusty crud caked up in it. The pipes in this house are 80+ years old, and the ones leading to the kitchen sink are definitely the most used, and pressure there is less than ideal. I suspect the inlet valve is OK and it's just a matter of the pipes not being able to deliver enough water within the two minute time frame. My guess is that with adequate pressure, the tub would fill enough to trigger the float within the two minute time allotted. | ||
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Post# 481693 , Reply# 31 12/14/2010 at 16:46 (4,880 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay) |
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