Thread Number: 31983
My Habitat ReStore find, KitchenAid KDS-20, March 2010.
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Post# 482189   12/16/2010 at 23:42 (4,850 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        

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Top View. I'll show a fix for this later.




Post# 482190 , Reply# 1   12/16/2010 at 23:45 (4,850 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        

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Right front angle.

Post# 482191 , Reply# 2   12/16/2010 at 23:47 (4,850 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        

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Front View

Post# 482195 , Reply# 3   12/17/2010 at 00:05 (4,850 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        

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Upper Front Panel.

Post# 482196 , Reply# 4   12/17/2010 at 00:07 (4,850 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        

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Sump Area

Post# 482198 , Reply# 5   12/17/2010 at 00:13 (4,850 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        

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Manufacturer's label.

Post# 482200 , Reply# 6   12/17/2010 at 00:16 (4,850 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        

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Air Vent

Post# 482201 , Reply# 7   12/17/2010 at 00:17 (4,850 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        

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Top rack looking down.

Post# 482202 , Reply# 8   12/17/2010 at 00:19 (4,850 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        

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Underneath View. Any thing missing?

Post# 482203 , Reply# 9   12/17/2010 at 00:27 (4,850 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        

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Water Valve Removed.

Post# 482204 , Reply# 10   12/17/2010 at 00:31 (4,850 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        

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Cracked Water Valve. Not fixable.

Post# 482205 , Reply# 11   12/17/2010 at 00:35 (4,850 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        

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Motor Label. Didn't realize before the the 18, 19, and 20 all had the same motor.

Post# 482206 , Reply# 12   12/17/2010 at 00:38 (4,850 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        

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Blower motor with thermostat directly below.

Post# 482207 , Reply# 13   12/17/2010 at 00:40 (4,850 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        

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Fine Particle Strainer.

Post# 482209 , Reply# 14   12/17/2010 at 00:44 (4,850 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        

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Screw Bowl. Some people like magnetic bowls. I like regular bowls with Post-Its for reference.

Post# 482210 , Reply# 15   12/17/2010 at 00:47 (4,850 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        

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Odds and Ends.

Post# 482211 , Reply# 16   12/17/2010 at 00:48 (4,850 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        

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Zoom-Spout Oil. A must have.

Post# 482212 , Reply# 17   12/17/2010 at 00:51 (4,850 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        

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Kirby set up as blower. Nice when your Dad's air compressor is 60 miles away.

Post# 482213 , Reply# 18   12/17/2010 at 00:56 (4,850 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        

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Text for KitchenAid D/W KDS-20


I've noticed lately that a lot of people have been asking questions about KitchenAid dishwasher switches. Here's a process I've gone through more than once to restore and revive old switches. In my zeal to get this machine going I forgot to take pictures during my repair process. If you already know how to do these things or are not interested, skip to the final pictures. Keep in mind it was several months ago when I did this so if I say "I believe" or "As I recall", you'll understand.

The problem that caused this machine to be rejected was loose screws around the detergent dispenser. It had been leaking for along time. A stalagmite of old detergent had formed around what appeared to be a small weep hole underneath the dispenser, between the inner and outer doors. There was a grey putty-like substance, like the rope caulk type weather stripping that comes from Ace Hardware (Ace). When the dispenser leaked it would run through the hole and back into the tub. I don't know if that little hole in the grey putty was deliberate, but it sure saved this dishwasher from the trash for along time. Eventually the hole went shut, the interior of the door would fill with water, and when the owner opened the door water would run onto the floor.

To fix the problem I removed the chrome strips from the sides of the door and slid the colored panels and cardboard from the door. I cleaned the strips and panels and put them in a safe place until reassembly. Then I removed the galvanized panel by removing the small screws around the outside perimeter of the porcelain side of the door. This reveals the interior chamber of the door. I removed the stalagmite, tightened the dispenser screws (not too tightly - plastic), replaced the grey putty around the bottom of the inter door with new putty from Ace and the problem was solved. I did some other cleaning and checked all the electrical connections while I was in there.

It's best to use powdered detergent in these old machines because they were not made to use the liquid type, it tends to all run out in the first cycle and I've heard that liquid detergent is hard on the gasket underneath the dispenser cup. Don't overfill the cups with powdered detergent as it makes it hard for them to open.

Since I'd gone this far I figured I might as well restore the whole thing, being it was in such good condition. I removed the bottom door panel and the brass colored metal strip at the bottom of the door that guards the wires when the door is opened and closed. This same strip also holds the bottom door panel on. The back edge of the bottom door panel slips under this strip. I took out the baffle by removing the rubber screw covers on the three screws at the inside bottom of the inter door and removed the screws on the bottom of the door inside the tub. Then I took off the door springs, sat on the ground, lowered the door down to my lap and removed the door hinge screws and slightly pulled the door toward me, away from the D/W. I pulled the baffle out by moving it around in different directions and finally got it at an angle where it would slip out, keeping in mind how it came out so I could get it back in. I put the door hinge screws back on, closed the door, and put the hinge springs back on. I took the baffle to the sink and started scrubbing. What a nasty mess. I soaked it in vinegar to remove the hard water deposits. On the D/W I used a damp rag and stuck it up in the slot where the baffle was and tried to clean as much crud out as I could. A lot of it was dry so I could knock it off. Then I reversed the process and the baffle area of the door was back together. Be careful not to over tighten the baffle screws, as you're screwing into plastic. What a job! I think it was the hardest part of the rebuild. Really hard on your back.

Then I disconnected the wires to the rinse agent dispenser, unscrewed the plastic nut on the neck of the dispenser, and carefully removed the rubber washer underneath as the washer can stick to the porcelain and tear. There was a little rust under the washer, so I cleaned it off with some fine grade emery paper, cleaning both sides and running around the inside of the opening to smooth it up, being careful not to scratch the exposed porcelain. Then I wiped everything down with a damp cloth. There wasn't much rust so I didn't worry about sealing it. I figured the rubber washer would keep the water off when I reassembled it. I removed the bi-metal assembly from the top to wash out the dispenser. I filled the dispenser with hot water and covered the openings where water could escape, then shook it vigorously. I repeated this several times. On the last time, I turned the dispenser all different directions so the water would all run out. The dispenser is compartmentalized, so it's hard to get the water out. Then I took the bi-metal assembly apart to inspect, took out the plunger and rinsed it, dried it, reassembled it, and put it back on the dispenser. Note that the screws are different sizes and try to keep bi-metals dry as they'll rust. Then I put the dispenser neck back through the opening, put a small amount of turbine oil on the rubber washer so the nut would tighten down, put the washer on the neck, then the nut, tightened it down snugly, and reattached the wires.

On to the control panel:
First release the end caps by removing the two big screws at the top of the door on the white porcelain side, be careful during this part as the cast aluminum end caps can fall off and be broken or scratched and I don't think they're available anymore. Take the caps off and put the screws back in the holes on the caps to help me remember where they go.

There are four screws along the top edge of the door that hold the control panel cover on. Take off the door handle and screw (the handle is cast too) and put the screws, handle, and end caps in hot soapy water to soak while you proceed. After the top screws are out and the handle is removed I believe the control panel will separate from the door.

The lights that shine through the panel have to be disconnected now. The "rinsed only" light and the cycle sequence cluster have to be disconnected from the panel. The "rinsed only" light slides downward and the cluster comes loose by gently pulling the plastic hooks away from the sides. Don't pull too far it could easily break. Now the control panel will be free. Pull it toward you and it should drop down. Clean the front of the panel, the holes where the buttons were, and the hole where the handle goes. You can use a damp cloth or paper towels moistened with Windex. Use nothing abrasive. Watch for sharp metal edges on the backside.

If there is dirt where the acrylic meets the metal on the front use a toothpick to loosen and wipe clean. You can clean the metal on the back, but I wouldn't clean too much on the back side of the acrylic with the "KitchenAid" logo surrounded by the golden color and the burled wood design around the edges. The design is bonded to the back of the acrylic. If you rub it or try to separate the acrylic from the chrome panel it could be damaged and would appear unsightly when viewed from the front. Mostly, just clean the area where the lights shine through. You can also lightly wipe the front of the bulbs with a damp, lint free cloth and wipe the plastic cover on the sequence cluster so the lights will appear brighter.

Now to the switch and timer:
I pulled all the buttons off the switch by hand. For the 20 series D/W they're plastic with a faux chrome finish and pliers would damage them. If a tool must be used, use caution. The older ones may be real chrome, but pliers can also damage real chrome too. Soak the buttons in hot water and soap. Take the screws out of the selector switch and make a diagram where the wires attach to the switch. Take needle nose pliers and work the lugs off the terminals until the switch is free from the machine. Then soak the switch with WD-40 while working all the selectors one by one. Wrap your thumb in a towel and push in on the reset wafers on the left end of the switch. There are three wafers sandwiched together that pop out of the end of the switch when different buttons are pushed. When you push the wafers in, all the selector spades pop out and the switch is reset. Continue to spray WD-40 in the switch and work all the selectors until you're convinced the switch is clean and working well. Then press the reset wafers.

Hold the switch tightly and sling it toward the ground to remove the WD-40. If you have an air compressor with a dusting tool attachment you can use this to remove the excess fluid. Test the tool first to make sure it's not blowing out any dirt or water. Then use a lint free towel and wipe the switch down well. Be careful with the switch. It's made out of a hard type of material that will break easily if dropped or hit against something. The reset wafers are delicate too. Always push the wafers directly into the switch, not at an angle.

Set the switch aside to dry while you clean the buttons. An old toothbrush works well. Dry the buttons off and blow into the back of the buttons to remove the water. Set them aside for later. While the control panel is open, you can check the interlock switch at this time too, if you'd like. It's in the upper right hand corner of the control area. It can be removed, cleaned, adjusted and checked for continuity. Pushed in is closed; released is open.

After the selector switch is dry reattach the wires according to the diagram you made earlier. I don't move wires around a lot but if I can re-route wires where they don't crisscross each other or move them to an area where nothing else is, without having to bend them a lot, I'll do it. Sometimes I'll tuck a wire out of the way so it doesn't get in a bind or maybe rub something and cause a short. If the wires are old and stiff it may be better not to move them. They could break or the insulation could come off.

While I had the control panel apart I took the timer off to check it. I think it's held in by two screws with a ground wire on one of the screws. When I got it loose I detached the wiring harness. Then I slid the aluminum cover off the left end of the timer to check for dirt and lubrication. The timer should be clean on the inside with a light coating of lithium grease on the cams and the contacts should be dry and show no signs of burning or arcing. My timer was clean and in good condition, so I slid the cover back over it. Made sure the harness is fully seated and the interlock clip is clicked in. Put your timer back on the machine like it was.

Reassembly: Screw your switch back on to the machine until it’s not quite tightened down. Make sure the door latch is in the closed position. You may have to temporally put the handle back on for this. Put your fingers on the right side of the switch and push to your left. Hold the switch in this position while tightening the screws down the rest of the way. This puts the switch in the best position for reset.

With the switch reset (all wafers pushed into the switch) you can check for the proper adjustment of the switch cancel spring. The spring is not really a spring, per se, but a piece of plastic with a hole in the middle that gives a bit when pushed upon. When the door handle is opened a short metal rod that's rounded on the end drops down and pushes on the flat (back) part of the cancel spring which is near the rod, which in turn, pushes the rounded part of the spring toward the end of the switch. Latch the door and push one of the spades to select a cycle. Then unlatch the door. If adjusted properly the spring will push the wafers into the switch and reset it and another button can be pushed after the door is latched again. If improperly adjusted, the wafers will not be completely pushed into the switch and the spades won't pop back out. This can give the impression of a jammed or malfunctioning switch when it really just hasn't been reset.

The switch cancel spring hangs between the door latch and the switch. Above that is the cancel lever spacer, which is attached to the door above the cancel spring. The spacer is notched on one side and the spring is notched on the opposite side. These two mesh together by the notches and are held together by the cancel spring anchor. If the switch is not completely reset when you open the door, an adjustment should be made. To adjust, close the door handle, loosen the cancel spring anchor enough to allow the switch cancel spring to drop down one notch and then retighten the cancel spring anchor. Then open the door handle again and see if the switch cancel spring resets the switch properly. If the wafers disappear into the switch and all of the spades pop out, the adjustment is correct. If it does not, repeat the process again and lower the switch cancel spring one more notch. Usually one or two notches will give a proper adjustment if the original factory setting has not been changed. Don't over adjust the cancel spring. It should only push on the end of the switch hard enough to reset it. If it pushes too hard it could break the spring or put undo stress on the spring over time. Once the adjustment is correct check each cycle by latching the door, pressing each spade then opening the door to see if the switch resets on all cycles. Also, do this in combination with the Energy Saver setting. If the switch resets in all combinations it is most likely mechanically sound. You won't know if it's electrically sound until you plug it in.

Put your control panel back on by carefully snapping the cycle sequence cluster back in place and sliding the “rinsed only” light back. Then line up the four screw holes on the top of the control panel with the holes in the top of the door. Replace the screws and tighten them down snugly. Place the cast end caps back on, making sure they're properly lined up and snug on the ends. Then replace the screws on the backside of the door (the porcelain side) and tighten, but not overly tight. The screws have rubber under them which could be damaged along with the porcelain. A little dish liquid on the bottom side of the rubber facilitates tightening. Put the door handle back on.

Now, on to the testing phase. If your machine is not one you have owned previously, it's nice to test it outside if you have close access to hot water, electricity, and a paved area. If no paved area, throw down a piece of plywood. If there's a leak, you'll need a hard surface to check for water drops. The machine should be level and the bottom racks should be in place. Since I wasn't the original owner of the machine and I had easy access to the things I mentioned above, I chose to test outside. I got a double female garden hose adapter and a double male adapter to fit onto the garden hose on one end and the D/W on the other. The double male fitting had a place for a wrench so I could tighten it to the D/W. I put thread tape around the small end that went into the D/W valve and tightened it lightly with the wrench. I put new hose gaskets in the double female connector and tightened one end to the double male on the D/W. I connected the garden hose to the hot water faucet where my washing machine hooks up. I purged the hot water hose until I was convinced it was completely clean. I wouldn't hook it up to your hot water heater unless it's brand new. Sediment in the heater can clog your D/W valve. Connect the other end to the double male on the D/W and tighten. Make sure both sides are tightened snugly. Turn on the hot water, and then go to the D/W quickly. Check for leaks on your connections. Tighten if necessary. Wipe up any water, if it has leaked. Check the sump area in your D/W. If there's any water or foreign objects there, soak it up and pick them out or suck it up with a wet vac. Check to make sure drain hose is connected and pointed away, and down hill from your work area. Make sure you're dry, the machine's dry, and the ground it's setting on is as dry as possible. Wear rubber sole shoes. Connect D/W to a grounded outlet; one with a GFI if possible.

The machine has to be tested with the bottom rack in place. There are white plastic tabs on the front corners of the rack that keep the machine from leaking by the hinge area. Close door and latch. Press "cancel cycle". It should advance, click and pump out, advance to the end of the cycle and stop. Open the door. You should hear a couple more clicks. Close the door. Press "rinse and hold". Machine should advance to last rinse. When filling stops, open door and check water level. It should be slightly below the wash arms and the fine particle strainer should almost be covered. If it's not, something is wrong. Low water pressure or clogged screen in water valve should be suspected. Don't run machine with low water level. I'm not sure what proper water pressures are for this machine. Most city water pressure levels are appropriate. 50-60 psi is acceptable. If water level is correct, close door and press "rinse and hold" again. Machine should rinse, pump out, and then advance through dry cycle to end. When you open the door the "rinsed only" light should come on. Close the detergent cups. Close the door and latch. Then select a full cycle, like, "low energy". Machine should advance to "low energy", fill, then stop and heat the water. You should hear a steaming or hissing type sound inside. That's the element heating the water. When the water reaches the correct temperature, it will start to run. Watch the machine closely during this time for leaks, sparking, arcing, or bad sounds, like grinding, scraping, screeching, etc. Track down the sound and see if you can fix what's wrong. Be alert for any burning smells.

Assuming everything is running properly just set the machine on the “low energy” cycle and watch the machine go through its paces. The front cover should still be off the machine. During the first trial run the detergent cups should be empty and closed. During the first wash, or pre-wash, as it is called, I believe the detergent dispenser on the left will open (as you’re facing the machine). It’s spring loaded. You’ll see a white plastic bar fly up and it will make a loud click. The cycle lights on the control panel will coincide with what cycle the D/W’s in. Next the detergent cup on the right will open at the same amount of time into the main wash cycle as the pre-wash one did. Then during the final rinse the rinse agent dispenser will open. It's not as noticeable and doesn't make any noise. The small black box on top of the rinse agent dispenser has a little hole in its top. During the last rinse, a little black rod will slowly lift above the top cover of the box and hold for a bit before dropping back down. If this happens, the rinse agent dispenser is working properly.

Run the machine through all of its cycles to make sure they all work. You can use detergent on the second run-through to clean the machine. If you want, you can use a dishwasher cleaner too, like "Dishwasher Magic". During one of the dry cycles, hold on to the back of the flo-thru drying unit. About a minute or so into the cycle, the metal should start to get hot. Then you'll know the heating element is working. When the testing is over open the door and let the machine dry out.

Unplug the machine. Replace the galvanized door cover. Slide the colored panels and the cardboard back into the channels on the front and replace the chrome strips on the sides of the door. Put the buttons back on the switch. They don't slide on the spades exactly in the center, but a little off center, either to the left or right. Let the holes in the control panel guide you. The buttons may seem to be on all the way, but I've found if you give the buttons a slightly firmer push, they will slide on a bit farther and seem to be more locked in place. When you open the door the buttons should all stick out the same distance. Then you will know they're all on correctly. If the drain solenoid makes a buzzing noise, you can try spraying it and the lever it operates with WD-40 and then operate the lever by hand a few times. Put a rag behind the valve and blow off the excess WD-40 and then wipe off the hoses and the underneath side of the D/W. I'm not sure if WD-40 is the best cleaner-lubricant to use on a switch, but I couldn't think of anything better that would clean and lubricate, yet be thin enough to run out of the switch easily. It's worked well for me more than once. If anyone has a better idea, let me know. Here is the finished product.


Post# 482215 , Reply# 19   12/17/2010 at 01:00 (4,850 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        

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After Rebuild. Moved to Mom and Dad's.

Post# 482216 , Reply# 20   12/17/2010 at 01:02 (4,850 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        

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Angle View of Control Panel.

Post# 482217 , Reply# 21   12/17/2010 at 01:04 (4,850 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        

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Control Panel, Right Side.

Post# 482218 , Reply# 22   12/17/2010 at 01:05 (4,850 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        

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Control Panel, left side.

Post# 482219 , Reply# 23   12/17/2010 at 01:06 (4,850 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        

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Tub Bottom.

Post# 482220 , Reply# 24   12/17/2010 at 01:09 (4,850 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        

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Inside of tub. All parts installed.

Post# 482222 , Reply# 25   12/17/2010 at 01:11 (4,850 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        

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Items for insulation repair.

Post# 482223 , Reply# 26   12/17/2010 at 01:12 (4,850 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        

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Insulation repaired.

Post# 482224 , Reply# 27   12/17/2010 at 01:15 (4,850 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        

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Rear view with extra insulation wrapped on back corners.

Post# 482225 , Reply# 28   12/17/2010 at 01:15 (4,850 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        

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Lower Front Panel.

Post# 482227 , Reply# 29   12/17/2010 at 01:19 (4,850 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        

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Underneath view.

Post# 482228 , Reply# 30   12/17/2010 at 01:20 (4,850 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        

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Motor Close-up.

Post# 482229 , Reply# 31   12/17/2010 at 01:22 (4,850 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        

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New water valve installed.

Post# 482230 , Reply# 32   12/17/2010 at 01:24 (4,850 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        

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Old machine that has been replaced.

Post# 482231 , Reply# 33   12/17/2010 at 01:51 (4,850 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

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There's no question that the KDS-20's are very handsome machines. Yours turned out beautifully. I love seeing the Hobart logo on the ID labels. It says in no uncertain terms, "THIS is a dishwasher!"

How significant is the noise reduction with the more generous insulation compared to the old machine?

I noticed that your fine particle strainer is metal. The one on my KDS-20 is black plastic. I would guess that indicates my machine is a later production series 20. I tried find a home for it, but now that I've got the ISE Classic Supreme to prepare for installation, I will take any interchangeable parts off of the KDS-20 if they're in better shape.

Your parents must be thrilled to have the identical replacement in perfect running order. Nice job!


Post# 482238 , Reply# 34   12/17/2010 at 02:55 (4,850 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        
Noise

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It didn't change the noise very much. I did it for retaining heat, mostly. The thing that changed the noise level the most was when my parents went from kitchen carpet to hardwood. That's when it got louder. That's understandable though. We've had three KDS-20s and they've all had plastic on the top and metal on the sides.

Post# 482246 , Reply# 35   12/17/2010 at 04:58 (4,850 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        
KDS 20

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Nice Job.

I had one of those. Great Cleaning Machine. If they only had left the Constant Rinse and put some type of Guard over it so it wouldn't get broken.


Post# 482247 , Reply# 36   12/17/2010 at 05:02 (4,850 days old) by magic clean ()        
Brian

your dishwasher looks terrific. You'll really enjoy it. I noticed on the rear of the bottom rack; there are black rubber spacers at the corners. They are shipping material that has survived all these years. You should remove and discard them.

Lemi-shine dishwasher cleaner after a few treatments; will help dissolve the hard water residue on the heating element.

You've got a real gem. Congrats!


Post# 482333 , Reply# 37   12/17/2010 at 13:16 (4,849 days old) by autowasherfreak ()        

NICE!

Post# 482407 , Reply# 38   12/18/2010 at 01:29 (4,849 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        

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Thanks for all the compliments guys. Eddie - I know. If this machine had the constant rinse it would have been perfect. If I ever run across a KDS-18 in good shape, I think I'll try one out. All I've ever heard is wonderful things about them. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the 18s look like the colored panels on the front aren't interchangeable.
Leslie - What is Lemi-shine and where do you get it?

No one's commented on my switch restoration. Doesn't anyone have any ideas or suggestions? The switch seems to be one of the parts that cause the machines to go bad. Most people don't ever comment on how the switches work or how to adjust the reset mechanism. Do you think the WD-40 is a good idea?
I've read many stories on here that lead me to believe that the switch malfunctioning and not re-setting properly is the culprit. A lot of these old machines that have the push buttons are made and designed the same way. It seems to me that a lot of old machines that are thrown out could be saved by working on the switches. This has helped my Maytag washer, too.


Post# 482419 , Reply# 39   12/18/2010 at 02:47 (4,849 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        
Switch Restoration

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I think it's great that you shared your restoration expertise here. It will be archived for those who may need to refer to it in the future.

Lemishine is an additive that can be used to boost cleaning power and make glassware sparkle. You can also use it to have your dishwasher clean itself by dumping some in and running the machine through a normal wash cycle. It's not meant to be used on a regular basis, as that could cause permanent damage to certain components over time.

I've been told Target carries Lemishine, but I haven't seen it at my local store. The container is similar to the plastic ones that Comet cleanser comes in. None of my local grocery chains carry it. If you don't see it at your nearest Target, you can probably ask them to order it for you.

Don't be fooled by Finish "Glass Magic" because it's not the same thing. Lemishine contains phosphates, the Finish stuff does not.


Post# 482446 , Reply# 40   12/18/2010 at 08:07 (4,849 days old) by westie2 ()        

For the Lemonshine you can try Walmart. Ours carries it so I am sure yours will too.

As for the switch you could also try the silcone spray or you might be able to find the turner spray at Radio Shack that was for the old TV turners to loosen them up and clean. This did work well. I just don't know if they have that anymore. The silcone spray works great and does not gunk up either.

Here is a link to the Radio Shack tuner spray they still have in stock.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO westie2's LINK


Post# 482447 , Reply# 41   12/18/2010 at 08:18 (4,849 days old) by varicyclevoice (Davenport, Iowa)        
regarding Finish Glass Magic

varicyclevoice's profile picture
Beautiful job on the KDS-20!! It looks awesome! In regards to the comment about Finish Glass Magic...I just bought some last week and according to the box, it contains no more than 21% of phosphates....so I believe you can buy this product with phosphates.

Have they changed that and phasing this out too?


Post# 482470 , Reply# 42   12/18/2010 at 09:49 (4,849 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
STICKING PROGRAM SWITCHES

combo52's profile picture
I often have to lubricate program switches on KA DW, WD-40 will help unstick them but it is not a good long term lubricant I like spray electronic cleaners and then a good spray of silicone lube. There generally two small holes on the back of these switches, one on either end which makes it very easy to add cleaners and lubricants.

Post# 482515 , Reply# 43   12/18/2010 at 15:04 (4,848 days old) by qsd-dan (West)        

qsd-dan's profile picture
Fantastic restoration and write-up, Brian!!

It's best to use powdered detergent in these old machines because they were not made to use the liquid type, it tends to all run out in the first cycle and I've heard that liquid detergent is hard on the gasket underneath the dispenser cup.

X2!!

Powder or tablets ONLY! I finally phased most of my liquid detergent out. I was purging it through the left cup even though most of it was probably running out during the initial heating phase.

As for WD-40, it's not a lubricant, it's a Water Displacement (Hence WD). When used on metal, it will actually accelerate rust in the long run. It's best to use an electrical contact cleaner followed by a silicone spray lubricant.

A few weeks back, curiosity got the best of me and I dug out a spare KDS-19 switch and took it apart. Here are a few pics.

Carefully remove the rear panel. It should take a good 10 minutes to accomplish this alone. The fiber panel is extremely delicate. GO SLOWLY!


Post# 482516 , Reply# 44   12/18/2010 at 15:06 (4,848 days old) by qsd-dan (West)        

qsd-dan's profile picture
A wide pic showing the 3 wafers and contacts.

Post# 482517 , Reply# 45   12/18/2010 at 15:06 (4,848 days old) by qsd-dan (West)        

qsd-dan's profile picture
Up close and personal

Post# 482623 , Reply# 46   12/19/2010 at 06:14 (4,848 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        

beekeyknee's profile picture
qsd-dan,
Wow, I was scared to do that. You have to remove a spring first? Then is there any thing else you have to remove before the back comes off? I was afraid something might fly out and I wouldn't know how to put it back, if I could find it. If you get it open spray down the switch with contact cleaner, then go over it with silicone spray? Combo 52 said "There are two holes in the ends of the switches that make it very easy to add cleaners and lubricants." What holds the back of the switch on except for the spring and the lugs bent at different positions? If a person had a cleaner and lube that is liquid enough to run through the entire switch, wouldn't it be better to use that, instead of trying to take the switch apart? Don't get me wrong. It is fun to see the inside of these switches.

When I was a dj, I would often use cleaners and lubricants on mixing boards to take static out of switches and faders.

Techspray makes an excellent switch cleaner called Blue Shower II Spray and Caig makes a good spray lubricant. They both have web sites. It seems to me that a person would be able to use these with out the disasembly process. They are both very runny and would soak the switch well. The Blue Shower II Spray is the best followed by the Caig lubricants. They have information on their webs sites. They are available at electronic part stores and mail order sites around the country. Some of the sprays are volatile and have special ground shipping only.

I know what you're thinking. Why didn't he do this in the first place... Cost and no air compressor in Columbia. Check out the Techspray and Caig websites and tell me what you think. Thanks for letting us see the inside of the switch.
Dan.
p.s. Techspray's rubber rejuvenator works great on old rubber parts that have gone hard, especially if you scuff them up a little with emery paper and heat them up in the fluid a bit for a day or two on low heat. Sounds weird, but it works.





This post was last edited 12/19/2010 at 09:43
Post# 482754 , Reply# 47   12/19/2010 at 18:13 (4,847 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
STICKING KA PROGRAM SWITCHES

combo52's profile picture
It is neat to see the inside of the switch but if you want to use it again and avoid a serious short and possible fire I would not try to disassemble this part. Each of the male terminals are crimped to hold the switch back in place after it is assembled it would be very hard to duplicate this assembly in the field. This is a good reason why you really need to know the source of the information being given on an internet forum like this as often the people giving out advice have little real repair experience.

Post# 482765 , Reply# 48   12/19/2010 at 18:49 (4,847 days old) by qsd-dan (West)        

qsd-dan's profile picture
You have to remove a spring first?

Yep, it comes right off with needle nose pliers.

Then is there any thing else you have to remove before the back comes off?

Some of the terminals are bent in various directions. I took several pics at different angles before I straightened them.

I was afraid something might fly out and I wouldn't know how to put it back, if I could find it.

Nothing will shoot out. It's just 3 wafers with lots of contacts.

What holds the back of the switch on except for the spring and the lugs bent at different positions?

The spring doesn't hold the back on; it's the terminals.

If a person had a cleaner and lube that is liquid enough to run through the entire switch, wouldn't it be better to use that, instead of trying to take the switch apart?

Depends on the issue. If the switch is just sticky, then spraying lube through the hole may work, although you'll probably have to damn near drown the switch and shake the hell out of it. If one or more of the contacts are burned up or have a lot of build-up on it/them, removing the back and filing the contacts with a 90 degree file is the only fix.


I found a couple of contacts in this switch that looked questionable. I filed down the questionable ones and cleaned the rest with a toothbrush soaked in electrical contact cleaner. I let it dry and then blew it out well with compressed air. Lightly sprayed the wafers with silicone spray and slapped it back together.

Ironically enough, my buddy called and said the switches in his KDS-19 that I found him a few months back were a little sticky at times when selecting different cycles. I told him I fooled around with a spare switch and I was willing to swap switches with him. He took me up on the offer, installed the switch and has ran each cycle several times now with no issues. All is well and he's a happy camper!


Post# 482905 , Reply# 49   12/20/2010 at 07:25 (4,847 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
STICKING KA PROGRAM SWITCHES

combo52's profile picture
Program switches on KA DW seldom have contact problems because unlike the timer once a button is pressed to start the machine the contacts stay in the same position for the complete cycle. Another thing to keep in mind is the high current contacts in a switch or timer often have a lot of Sterling Silver in them and as a result they are very dark almost black in color. Even if the switch is brand new out of box they will look like this, Silver oxide is an excellent conductor and no attempt should be made to clean these contacts, you will likely do more harm than good and the tarnished color will be back in a month. These PS are very important to the proper operation of your machine and if it is a daily driver that intend to keep and use it is a good idea to obtain an extra PS and timer as thier many different ones used on the different models. But again I would never take a PS apart these parts were never intended to be disassembled in the field and the resulting shorts and fire could do a lot of damage to the wiring of your DW.

Post# 484918 , Reply# 50   12/29/2010 at 00:40 (4,838 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        
New SS Panels

beekeyknee's profile picture
Christmas present for my Mom to doll up her D/W.

Post# 484921 , Reply# 51   12/29/2010 at 01:12 (4,838 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

rp2813's profile picture
Wow, those stainless panels are beautiful! I can't wait to see what my ISE looks like with them!

How does your mom like the look?


Post# 485110 , Reply# 52   12/29/2010 at 23:25 (4,837 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        

beekeyknee's profile picture
She seemed to like them pretty well. I think she liked them more after a friend of hers commented on how nice they looked.

Post# 485111 , Reply# 53   12/29/2010 at 23:28 (4,837 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        
Post Pics

beekeyknee's profile picture
Ralph,
Be sure to post some pics of yours when you get it done.


Post# 485133 , Reply# 54   12/30/2010 at 01:29 (4,837 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

rp2813's profile picture
I will definitely post pix of the Supreme when it's done.

Today I tried to order the stainless panels from the same parts place I got them a couple of years ago and they advised that nothing came up for either the ISE model or the corresponding KA model. I'll have to try some of the other local parts houses now.


Post# 485159 , Reply# 55   12/30/2010 at 04:39 (4,837 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        
Panels

beekeyknee's profile picture
I got mine off ebay. They came from somewhere in New York. They have all different sizes on there, so measure closely. They're really heavy gauge. Had to take out one set of panels and the door is still heavier. I probably could have taken both sets out. The measurements were 1/8th off on the width, but they fit anyway.

Post# 485232 , Reply# 56   12/30/2010 at 12:53 (4,836 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

rp2813's profile picture
I'll try ebay if nobody local can order them.

The door is indeed much heavier with the SS panels. I didn't remove the colored ones on my 21 and the heaviness was very pronounced.

I'll remove all panels on the ISE before installing the SS ones.

That's one thing I like about the Thermador. It has adjustable spring tension depending on what's being used for the front panels. Mine originally had a wood panel to match cabinets, so when I installed the stainless look panels instead, I was able to adjust the springs accordingly. Too bad KA didn't offer that same feature. Even as-is with the black panel, the ISE door drops down with more force than the Therma-door.


Post# 485259 , Reply# 57   12/30/2010 at 15:00 (4,836 days old) by magic clean ()        
Ralph

if memory serves correctly :-), you can adjust the door springs on the KitchenAid.

Have a close look at the stamped steel door spring mounting brackets that are affixed to each side of tank frame support with sheet metal screws. There should be a series of screw holes punched in the metal frame that permit repositioning of the bracket to increase or decrease spring tension.

You'll want to have both brackets mounted in the same position for good balance.

Hope this is the case with your machine.

lp


Post# 485268 , Reply# 58   12/30/2010 at 15:18 (4,836 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

rp2813's profile picture
Thanks for the info LP.

I noticed extra holes during the door change-out last weekend. I'll take another look and will make the necessary adjustment once the stainless panels are installed.


Post# 485288 , Reply# 59   12/30/2010 at 16:45 (4,836 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
you took the words...

right out of my mouth, Magic Clean!
I was about to tell Ralph about the extra holes in the frame members. Just bring the brackets to the lowest holes and that will give maximum pull on the springs.

I put those panels on my Mother in Law's machine and did not have to adjust the springs at all. But Ralph, your springs may be losing their tension.

KA provides a heavy duty spring set for heavier panels so you may want to check that out too.

The stainless panels are in a kit under part number 4169400 and list for 84.00 at sears.co/parts.

The heavy duty springs are sold 2 to a set under part number 4171002/9741248

Hope this helps
Steve


CLICK HERE TO GO TO stevet's LINK


Post# 485375 , Reply# 60   12/30/2010 at 23:52 (4,836 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

rp2813's profile picture
Thanks Steve. It was a total bust with all the local appliance parts distributors. Except for one old-timer who tried to help, I dealt with young dudes who shut me down as soon as I provided a model number. Just a couple of years ago when I was shopping for stainless inserts for my KDI-21, everybody had them and it was a matter of finding the lowest price, which I believe was around $65.

I'll go to the Sears parts outlet here in town. If they'll order the inserts for me, I think paying sales tax would still be cheaper than the cost of shipping associated with ordering on line.


Post# 485385 , Reply# 61   12/31/2010 at 00:11 (4,836 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        
Water Heating Pause

beekeyknee's profile picture
Is the water heating pause only supposed to happen during the first pre-wash on a KDS-20? Ours only pauses on the first pre-wash during regular cycles. Of course it pauses on Soak & Scrub and Sani-cycle during the final rinse.

Post# 788872 , Reply# 62   10/13/2014 at 20:07 (3,453 days old) by johncoveralls ()        

Awesome post! I am in the middle of restoring the same model. Where did you find the part in the photo below?

  View Full Size
Post# 788924 , Reply# 63   10/14/2014 at 01:38 (3,453 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        

beekeyknee's profile picture
At a locally owned independent parts store here in town. You've been diggin at those archives. Lol.

Post# 788938 , Reply# 64   10/14/2014 at 04:37 (3,453 days old) by johncoveralls ()        

thanks!

Post# 851043 , Reply# 65   11/11/2015 at 11:11 (3,059 days old) by audigr (Chillicothe, MO)        

This looks like mine. Mine is model KDS-60. I am currently deciding whether to replace this with a new dishwasher, or fix the minor(?) things wrong with this one.

* both door springs broke (12 inch long springs, wow)
* dispenser doesn't open during cycle
* starting to get mold inside (our garbage disposal has been broke for 9 months now, could this be related???
* bottom rack needs replaced, rusting and missing one tine
* some rust on the right side of tub in circular pattern (not sure why)
* the purple wire underneath, going to blower motor(?) looks like it burnt off so isn't really connected to anything.

HELP.


Post# 851053 , Reply# 66   11/11/2015 at 14:11 (3,059 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        

toploader55's profile picture

Welcome.

 

Wow... Seems you have a few issues.

 

Racks are tough to find, although you might be able to find some. You will pay dearly for them as well.  I have seen just a Upper Rack or Lower go for around $70+ dollars a piece. If your machine had only rack issues, I would say go for it and find some racks.

 

The rust sounds like it's the porcelain enamel could be shot in the tub. If it is blistering up, you have serious rust issues that might not be able to be repaired.

 

The detergent dispenser may be repairable, door springs are rare, but you may have to search for these also.

 

Mold is probably due to the fact that there is food soil in the machine and doesn't really have anything to do with your broken disposal being that the drain valve is in the closed position unless that is shot too.

 

My advice would be to look on Craig's list for another KitchenAid of a newer vintage.  There are quite a few available in the Shopper's Square Forum of this website. Some of these machines are in good shape and are being sold as people want to upgrade their kitchens for newer Stainless Appliances. Perfectly good machines, but they want New Stuff.

 

I personally would look for a newer machine and just give your old KitchenAid a proper send off. There will be many opinions posted here as what the other members feel about your situation.  This my opinion.

 

I wish you well and good luck with your decision.


Post# 851175 , Reply# 67   11/12/2015 at 05:13 (3,059 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR)        
My two cents!

chachp's profile picture

Here is my opinion and you're likely to get a few more:

  • Springs are all over eBay and generally you can get a set in the $20 range
  • Blower units are as well.  Those are likely more in the $50 range but if it's just the wire it could be an easy fix that costs nothing
  • Yup, soap dispensers too.  Maybe $30 or so depending how greedy the seller is.
  • The racks a bigger challenge but you could really watch for a donor machine on line in the $100 range that has better racks and maybe even good springs, blower unit and dispenser if the dispenser issue isn't a loose wire.
  • I think your biggest challenge is the rust spot and the mold.  But honestly I have NEVER heard of mold inside a dishwasher.  Have you not used it in a while?

So, it really boils down to whether or not you want to challenge these few things.  A picture or two of the mold and rust might help folks here to better assess how serious they are.  You won't find a new machine today that's built as well, washes as well or as quickly as your KDS-60.  Is this a portable or Sink combo unit?  You can search Craigslist for any Kitchen Aid machine in the 20 series for the parts you need if the rust and mold aren't issues that would retire the machine and then you'd have a machine you could use for other parts as needed or just swap them out.  It also depends on how much you like this machine and if it is a sink combo how much trouble it would be to get the dishwasher out.  As I recall some can be a real beast to remove.


Post# 851215 , Reply# 68   11/12/2015 at 13:19 (3,058 days old) by audigr (Chillicothe, MO)        

My dishwasher must have been a portable, but not now. We have lived here 15 years now, it was here when we moved in.

* I have found springs online, but not these that are 12 inches long, and have a rubber bumper around them.
* the purple wire goes to a themostat (see post #482206 reply #12 above)
* since the dispenser hasn't worked (5 years?) I just stick a Cascade pod in the open dispenser slot.
*lower rack will be my big expense, I have already looked around
*rust is surface only, not bubbly. along the same line as the upper spray arm.

see pics.

Thank you all for your input! I don't know how I will tell my husband I want to keep this one. He likes new things.


  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 4         View Full Size
Post# 851226 , Reply# 69   11/12/2015 at 14:58 (3,058 days old) by audigr (Chillicothe, MO)        

I run this 2-4 times a week.
The reverse color panel is brown. If I keep it, I like what beekeyknee did with the stainless steel panels!!!


Post# 851270 , Reply# 70   11/12/2015 at 19:14 (3,058 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
KUDS-60

combo52's profile picture

Your DW was a portable originally, and it has unique door springs that may be hard to find, we have found that the door springs from early 80s high end GE DWs fit fine [ the ones pictured are not correct ]

 

The rust stains in your DW are from washing steel items in the DW that should not be washed in a DW, the stains will clean off easily with a little cleanser.

 

The DD may just need an adjustment, or the DW may not be filling with enough water [ bad fill valve ] or you could have a clogged wash filter.

 

The burned wire on the heater unit just needs to be repaired.


Post# 854793 , Reply# 71   12/3/2015 at 00:15 (3,038 days old) by audigr (Chillicothe, MO)        
Me again,

Apparently my dish washer is self healing. After reading more posts I went back to using powder soap, and I used the Lemishine. Now my dispenser is working again. Who knew? Thanks for the tips!


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