Thread Number: 32449
Kitchenaid Imperial Selectra 21
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Post# 489516   1/17/2011 at 07:46 (4,840 days old) by rodneypierce ()        

OK guys, our house that we bought 3 years ago came with one of these bad boys. It never did work worth a hoot. Attached is a picture of the same model, from another archived post on this forum.
So, almost ready to buy a new dishwasher, I searched the internet and found this site. Last night I tore it all down, and cleaned all the lime deposits out of it, and opened up all the holes again, cleaned the screen (which was so dirty there was no way water was even passing through it). Ran it for a test run this morning, and MAN O MAN, this thing is like a new dish washer!!! And the fact that its over 20 years old and I was able to get every screw out without stripping or breaking, and it runs and now works great, just amazes me!! Glad I decided to tear into it before replacing it!! Now, my question is, the micro mesh screen is, well, gone. There is no more. And the following head has been discontinued:
www.repairclinic.com/PartDetail/W...

Is there anywhere I can get a new one of these??? This is for the 22 series from my research, but they are alot stronger, and more durable then the 21 series heads. Any help would be greatly appreciated as I understand the screen is pretty vital to the dishwasher!!!





Post# 489557 , Reply# 1   1/17/2011 at 12:01 (4,840 days old) by rodneypierce ()        

I think I might have found another option. Stainless braided fine mesh with .007 string spacing from mcmaster car. Its 8.51 per square foot. Thinking I could cut this down and attach it using the screws.

Post# 489567 , Reply# 2   1/17/2011 at 12:42 (4,840 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

rp2813's profile picture

Hang on and Steve the Hobart guy will probably post some advice here. 

 

Beautiful machine, and well worth enjoying if it's not brain-dead.


Post# 489573 , Reply# 3   1/17/2011 at 13:07 (4,840 days old) by rodneypierce ()        

She works like a charm!! Everything on it works great, just never cleaned worth a hoot. Now it cleans so good that the ole lady called me this morning and said "ITS LIKE A NEW DISHWASHER!!!!!" She is ecstatic.

Post# 489579 , Reply# 4   1/17/2011 at 13:51 (4,840 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        
"It's like a Brand New Dishwasher"

toploader55's profile picture
Welcome to AW.org

Good for you that you didn't give up. You've got a Great Machine.

Paging Dr. stevet...Paging Dr. stevet...

Hang in there Rodney, Steve will have the answer. He's our Resident Hobart Guy. He helped me with the restoration with my 1957 KitchenAid Portable right down to finding a Brand New Drain Valve.

Good Luck, Eddie


Post# 489899 , Reply# 5   1/18/2011 at 17:20 (4,839 days old) by rodneypierce ()        

Im going to bump this back up. Dr. Steve, where are you? :)

Post# 489929 , Reply# 6   1/18/2011 at 18:52 (4,839 days old) by Combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
KD21 & 22 wash-arm supports

combo52's profile picture
The screen always came with the WAS and the part in now NLA you may be successful in using very fine SS screen to reconstruct the missing screen or finding a good used or new part. I have several good used screens if you can't find one, I would charge $20 + shipping for one.

Post# 489936 , Reply# 7   1/18/2011 at 19:19 (4,839 days old) by rodneypierce ()        

combo, is it the entire support arm, or just the screen??? If its the entire thing, I might take you up on that!!! As mine is also missing the brass ring. Also, I assume for the 22 series eh?? I was reading that they are alot more durable then the 21 series, and usually dont have these problems.



Post# 489943 , Reply# 8   1/18/2011 at 20:00 (4,838 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
Combo, the man!

Rodney, I responded to your email and forgive me for not checking to see that you are the person who mentioned McMaster-Carr. Don't bother fixing your old one.If the brass ring is gone, then the washarm support is trash. Get yourself one from Combo and enjoy that machine!
BTW, if you remove the control panel from the machine, there will be a good little service aid inside that will tell you how to troubleshoot the control board and how it goes thru its self diagnostics. I had picked up the same machine many years ago at the curb and it was pristine except that the board was fried and at the time it was over 600 bucks to replace.The person who trashed the unit had loads of broken glass in the sump and the motor got jammed on a large piece and the relay on the board burned the tracings and then the relay itself.

Needless to say, it became a standard mechanical machine and as far as I know, it is still running.


Post# 489950 , Reply# 9   1/18/2011 at 20:18 (4,838 days old) by rodneypierce ()        

Steve, will do! The machine is awesome!!!! Nothing better then the fact that i saved us several hundred dollars by just deciding to tear into it. Everything else on it works like a charm. No electrical gremlins (for now anyhow) and if combo hooks me up with a new (used) washer arm support with screen, the thing will be back to pristine. I also need to pick up a few of the "axles" for the wheels, as 2 of them are broken, but I found a link for them online for a couple dollars a piece.

The top spray bar had worn through on the bottom of it also, so the piece that kept it centered on the plastic shaft, was worm through and it was wobbling around badly. (sorry that I dont know the correct names for these pieces). I ended up turning down a piece of 1" 5052 aluminum bar stock to fit in the hole as a bushing. Turned it down to the outer diameter, which happened to be .873, put a 1/2 inch hole in the center and a small (.030) lip, and it is good as new now.


Post# 489953 , Reply# 10   1/18/2011 at 20:25 (4,838 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
I got you covered!

Rodney, I have loads of wheels and axles you can have and are you talking about the actual upper washarm wearing thru? I have seen cases where they did actually wear away at the metal so it is not too uncommon for that to happen. It does tell us that the machine has been used alot, though! Or that your water is really hard and hard on everything it touches!
I have wash arms for you too so send me a shipping address and we can make some arrangement.
Steve


Post# 489954 , Reply# 11   1/18/2011 at 20:29 (4,838 days old) by rodneypierce ()        

Steve, sending you yet another email :-)

Post# 490056 , Reply# 12   1/19/2011 at 08:53 (4,838 days old) by rodneypierce ()        

Well, heard back from Combo. Sounds like he might have a washer arm support for me, complete with screen!! Im so excited to get this bad boy back into pristine shape, as it is almost as old as I am. Within a year or two. And also thank you Steve for your generous offering in helping me keep this old girl running in top shape!!

Post# 490235 , Reply# 13   1/19/2011 at 20:00 (4,837 days old) by rodneypierce ()        

Steve, did you receive my email with my address??

Post# 490250 , Reply# 14   1/19/2011 at 21:22 (4,837 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
yes!

I did, but worked late tonite so I am heading for the sheets. Will shout back at you tomorrow! BTW, how many wheels and axles do you need? And can you post or send a picture of the repaired wash arm?
Thanks
Steve


Post# 490254 , Reply# 15   1/19/2011 at 21:34 (4,837 days old) by rodneypierce ()        

Steve, no problem!! I have been having issues with my email not sending, so wasnt sure. I need 3 wheels/axles for the lower rack. I will try and post a picture tomorrow night of the upper wash arm repair. Amanda is currently running her new found dish washer, so I will try and take it apart quick tomorrow night when I get home and show you.

Post# 490400 , Reply# 16   1/20/2011 at 16:06 (4,837 days old) by rodneypierce ()        

alright, here is the repair.


Post# 490401 , Reply# 17   1/20/2011 at 16:07 (4,837 days old) by rodneypierce ()        

actual piece

Post# 490402 , Reply# 18   1/20/2011 at 16:09 (4,837 days old) by rodneypierce ()        

and fitted in the upper wash arm.

Post# 490643 , Reply# 19   1/21/2011 at 19:12 (4,836 days old) by pdub (Portland, Oregon)        
That's my diswasher!

pdub's profile picture

Congratulations Rod in restoring the washability on your amazing machine.
The picture you found is of my actual dishwasher that I use as my daily driver.

It's so good to know there is another one out there with an appreciative owner.

 

When I found mine the screen was completely gone too however I was lucky

enough to get one from Repair Clinic before they went NLA.  It wasn't cheap

as I think I paid $60 about 4 or 5 years ago.  Here is a picture of the part.


Post# 490644 , Reply# 20   1/21/2011 at 19:19 (4,836 days old) by pdub (Portland, Oregon)        

pdub's profile picture

Here is a picture of my KDIS-21 installed and running.  You will get many years of satisfaction from this wonderful machine.

 

Best of luck getting it in tip-top shape with the parts and advice from combo52 and stevet.  You came to the right place!

 

Patrick

 


Post# 490653 , Reply# 21   1/21/2011 at 19:48 (4,835 days old) by rodneypierce ()        

Patrick, thanks!! And that awesome. I do honestly love this thing. Sounds like Steve has a new(er) upper wash arm for me, and the wheels and axles that I need. And Combo(John) said that he has a wash arm support for me, for 55.00 shipped. I tried to call him today, and left a message, but never heard anything back. Im sure he just got busy. Regardless, this thing will stay with Amanda and I until it gives up the ghost, where I cant fix it, or its just not cost effective. As of right now, I love it!!! And more importantly, so does she!

Post# 490793 , Reply# 22   1/22/2011 at 15:48 (4,835 days old) by pdub (Portland, Oregon)        

pdub's profile picture

I'm very happy to hear you both love your dishwasher.  If you can, post some photos of it and let us know when you get the needed parts how everything comes together.

 

Here is an old pic of mine fully loaded.


Post# 490794 , Reply# 23   1/22/2011 at 15:49 (4,835 days old) by washernoob ()        

Rodney, you have the same countertops as I! :)

Post# 490819 , Reply# 24   1/22/2011 at 17:31 (4,835 days old) by rodneypierce ()        

I hate these counter tops. haha. Way too old!!!

Post# 490837 , Reply# 25   1/22/2011 at 18:41 (4,835 days old) by washernoob ()        

Lol. Yes my mom isn't a fan of them either. It doesn't match our kitchen.

Gotta love the 70s. :P


We are tiling all the counters though. One side of the kitchen is already finished. Its white tiles with clearish light blue tiles. rounded raised lip on the edge, and a white backsplash.


Post# 490839 , Reply# 26   1/22/2011 at 18:42 (4,835 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

rp2813's profile picture

Hey, that utensil basket goes all the way across the front!  The ones out of the KDS-20 and my two ISE Classic Supremes (presumably 22 series KA) are all identical and shorter.  Now I'm trying to remember the size of the one on my KDI-21. 


Post# 490901 , Reply# 27   1/23/2011 at 02:11 (4,834 days old) by pdub (Portland, Oregon)        
Utensil basket

pdub's profile picture

Yes, I replaced it with a later one from a 23 series as it's larger and has the little cover to hold small items in on the right side.

 

Very observant! Wink


Post# 490955 , Reply# 28   1/23/2011 at 10:39 (4,834 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

rp2813's profile picture

Thanks for the info.  I'll be on the lookout to see if I can get one of those larger ones from a series 23 junker.


Post# 491036 , Reply# 29   1/23/2011 at 16:34 (4,834 days old) by rodneypierce ()        

Combo, you out there??? Did you get my message or email?

Post# 491120 , Reply# 30   1/23/2011 at 21:05 (4,833 days old) by rodneypierce ()        

WHOO HOO!! Just got off the phone with John. The washer arm support will be on the way! What a nice, knowledgeable fella! Thanks so much John!!

Post# 493103 , Reply# 31   2/1/2011 at 16:47 (4,825 days old) by rodneypierce ()        

Alright, another update. Got the washer arm support complete with screen from Steve, and all installed. Then today I got the new flapper valve installed. Steve has tossed some axles and wheels for the lower rack, and the upper wash arm in the mail, and should be here soon. Now, just to find some of the epoxy to repair the rust spots on the racks.

Post# 493104 , Reply# 32   2/1/2011 at 16:49 (4,825 days old) by rodneypierce ()        

Sorry, washer arm support came from JOHN, not steve :) Combo 52 = John

Post# 493131 , Reply# 33   2/1/2011 at 17:48 (4,825 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

rp2813's profile picture

It's tough to find the plastisol repair for the racks in the right shade of blue anymore.  It's all gray or white.  I was able to get a jar of Maytag plastisol repair at one of those stacked-to-the-ceiling old stock type of appliance parts stores.  The stuff is not cheap.  I used it on the Thermador but it was still way more dark blue than the color of the racks. The package also included tips for the tines, which were of no use since the Thermador's tines are all curlicued on top.  I think the tips would look weird anyway.

 

Good luck finding the touch-up.  If you want to replace the racks entirely I think they can also be found among the membership here.


Post# 493140 , Reply# 34   2/1/2011 at 17:57 (4,825 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
it's in the mail!

Well, almost... will mail the arm wheels on Feb 2. Hope the snow doesnt selay the delivery too much!

Post# 493212 , Reply# 35   2/1/2011 at 21:41 (4,824 days old) by rodneypierce ()        

hey Steve, no problem pal!!! thanks again

Post# 493475 , Reply# 36   2/2/2011 at 17:39 (4,824 days old) by rodneypierce ()        

well, I have came across another issue. Now that the dishwasher actually works, and its spraying water BIG TIME now, the dishes dont dry all the way when on heated dry. They used to before, but im attributing that to the fact that it really didnt spray much water, at all. I assume they are supposed to come out dry. What do I look for here.

Post# 493570 , Reply# 37   2/2/2011 at 21:42 (4,823 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture

You putting rinse aid in the jet dry dispenser?


Post# 493575 , Reply# 38   2/2/2011 at 21:53 (4,823 days old) by rodneypierce ()        

i am not putting rinse agent in there, and most likely should be. But, i talked to Steve tonight, and he asked me if I had accidentally turned off the heated dry. Which, I had not, but decided to cycle the heated dry cycle on and off a few times during the cycle, and low and behold, after the rinsing/draining has finished. I heard the blower kick on (which I hadnt heard in the last couple washes, which is when we noticed it not drying). So im curious is perhaps it just didnt have a "brain fart" if you will. It dried this load of dishes flawlessly.

Post# 493612 , Reply# 39   2/3/2011 at 03:29 (4,823 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

rp2813's profile picture

Hmmm . . .

 

With a Selectra it's probably not as easy to troubleshoot that sort of issue, but per Steve's post further up, if you open up the panel there will be a service guide in there that will have info on self-diagnostics.  Whether that includes heat/no heat issues I don't know, but I'll bet Steve would.  You might just have a loose connection somewhere.

 

I presume there's no difference in control panel removal for the Selectra.  Four small screws across the top edge of the door, two or maybe three small ones on the bottom in the area of the handle, and the two large long machine screws that come through from the tub side of the door -- not to be confused with the two screws on each side of the inner door edges that are used to attach the entire front door panel.

 

 


Post# 493627 , Reply# 40   2/3/2011 at 06:15 (4,823 days old) by rodneypierce ()        

RP2813, I did tear into it looking for the service manual, and its not there anymore. It had a sticker saying it was behind the lower front panel, but looked there too, and nothing. It dried the last cycle last night perfectly, like said above. So, I will try it again tonight, and see if it kicks the blower on again. It did start working after I tore the front panel apart, and made sure all the connections were seated, so perhaps one was slightly loose, or its just a coincidence. Im not sure.

Post# 493635 , Reply# 41   2/3/2011 at 07:22 (4,823 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
SELECTRA DRYING PROBLEMS

combo52's profile picture
Hi Rodney hopefully it will continue to work and thier many reasons why it might not work. There are two relays on the control board of this machine that are responsible for the heated dry to work one for the little blower and one for the heater. If you select air dry only the blower is used for example. If either one gives you problems check all the easy stuff first, wiring connections at the blower-heater assembly, the blower motor and heater and safety cut out them selves and possible broken wires where they go through the door hinge area. Sadly the last one of this model machine we took out about a year ago had a bad control board and would no longer operate the dry heater and the customer wanted the machine replaced. The machine was in beautiful shape and we stripped it for parts. I tried to get her to keep the machine and just let the dishes air dry, but she had to have a new DW so in went the closest thing available a new WP 900 series standard tub machine.

Post# 493771 , Reply# 42   2/3/2011 at 20:02 (4,822 days old) by rodneypierce ()        

Alright, just out of curiosity, now that it appears that issue has corrected itself, does anyone have upper or lower racks with all tines, in good shape?? Just curious as to what people would want for them. This is a very very bad thing. Im really liking this old dishwasher :)

Post# 493858 , Reply# 43   2/4/2011 at 05:34 (4,822 days old) by rodneypierce ()        

And another thing, how about a source for the black front panels? I thought I had some .063 prefinished black sheet here at work set aside, but it seems to have disappeared.

Post# 493940 , Reply# 44   2/4/2011 at 12:59 (4,822 days old) by rodneypierce ()        

Well, found some black anodized aluminum sheet. Im going to use that. I will get a picture of the unit when it gets put back together. I have it ripped down to clean right now, and polish all the trim, clean all the old paint off, etc. Now finding some good racks.

Post# 494004 , Reply# 45   2/4/2011 at 19:14 (4,822 days old) by rodneypierce ()        

OK, no longer need the front panels. I used the anodized, and it honestly looks really good!!!! Its not glossy, kind of a satin black, but looks very very nice.
Here are a few pictures. 6 in total


Post# 494005 , Reply# 46   2/4/2011 at 19:15 (4,822 days old) by rodneypierce ()        
another

another

Post# 494006 , Reply# 47   2/4/2011 at 19:16 (4,822 days old) by rodneypierce ()        
another

another

Post# 494007 , Reply# 48   2/4/2011 at 19:19 (4,822 days old) by rodneypierce ()        
and the last one

all cleaned up. You can tell that it def. has some use on it, but now she is good as new, well, or close to it. I also fixed the lower washer arm tonight. it was sort of sloppy, so drilled and sleeved a piece of 13/32 brass tube, .014 wall thickness into the arm as a bushing, and it fits perfectly over the shaft on the washer arm support. Now, since the brass is much softer then the steel, it wont wear at the arm support, and I bought a 12 inch stick of the tubing, so I can make atleast another 6 bushings as they wear out. I think that will last me for quite a few years :-)

Post# 494014 , Reply# 49   2/4/2011 at 20:04 (4,821 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

rp2813's profile picture

Great looking machine. 

 

As for the matte finish on the panel, that's not too far off from normal.  I had black panels on both of my ISE's but they had either scratches or dents.  Both were very glossy; almost a mirror finish.  I had the black panel from the KDS-20 that we used as a door donor and it was positioned near one of the ISE's, where I noticed the Superba's panel had more of a matte finish.  I think your machine looks totally stock with the panel you've used.

 

Nice work!

 

Ralph


Post# 494017 , Reply# 50   2/4/2011 at 20:10 (4,821 days old) by rodneypierce ()        

Thanks Ralph!!


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