Thread Number: 32727
The YouCrate comes with Freezing Rain!
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Post# 493091   2/1/2011 at 16:26 (4,803 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

John(Combo52) had been saving some machines for me. My thanks to him, Smitty his partner, and the other helpers who had a hand with the shipment. They're finally here, along with the freezing rain! Now, lets see what machines came!




Post# 493092 , Reply# 1   2/1/2011 at 16:31 (4,803 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        
AWESOME!!!

A Whirlpool BD and Whirlpool 24" DD.

Post# 493094 , Reply# 2   2/1/2011 at 16:35 (4,803 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

After moving it across the ice glazed sidewalk, and getting it in the basement, time to see what it is.

RCA Whirlpool
Supreme 80
5 Cycle 2 Speed


Post# 493099 , Reply# 3   2/1/2011 at 16:43 (4,803 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

M/N: LSA7800B0
S/N: 07069J716


Post# 493101 , Reply# 4   2/1/2011 at 16:47 (4,803 days old) by circlew (NE Cincinnati OH area)        
NICE

One of my favorite Whirlpools! Really like the rare "Edged Sapphire" color. Enjoy them.

Post# 493111 , Reply# 5   2/1/2011 at 17:01 (4,803 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

It's in desperate need of being checked over.

Post# 493113 , Reply# 6   2/1/2011 at 17:03 (4,803 days old) by retropia ()        

The blue color is a pretty shade. Is the 24" direct drive Whirlpool a rare model? I'm not familiar with the smaller washers.

Post# 493115 , Reply# 7   2/1/2011 at 17:05 (4,803 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

After it is checked over, it's MOD time! In the mean while, What can I do with this HID lamp and this machine? Keep watching to find out!

Post# 493168 , Reply# 8   2/1/2011 at 19:10 (4,803 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Neat Score! Congrats

launderess's profile picture
Mother Dear's washer was a Whirlpool with the same black "Surgilator" with chrome cap. In fact methinks in honour of your recent arrival, will haul out my vintage Whirlpool portable and do a wash load!

Post# 493174 , Reply# 9   2/1/2011 at 19:33 (4,803 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

Launderess:

Awww Gee thanks! Could you make a YT video of the wash?

retropia:
I refer to this particular machine as 'MODEL0' It was one of the first Whirlpool DD machines. I have only seen one other Whirlpool machine like this and that was like 10 years ago. In my area, I would say that they are rare, but others may have seen more of these than I have. For me 'MODEL0' is another one of my dream machines. The design and similarity to the BD machines make me think of it as a transition machine to the 27" Whirlpool DD machines. In my collection, that would now be 2X Design 2000 DD's, one 24" that looks like the BD machines, and one 27" that looks like the DD machines that replaced the BD's several years later. If you can get one, it's an excellent piece to show the evolution of the Whirlpool BD and DD machines.

circlew:
I have a 1966 Mark Imperial XII (LRA9920)in white that has the same style console. The Sapphire Blue machine will be a mod machine. Don't worry, I won't change it too much.


Post# 493185 , Reply# 10   2/1/2011 at 20:37 (4,803 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
HI MELVIN

combo52's profile picture
Glad the washers arrived in one piece as you may be able to see the crate was not big enough for both machines it missed by 1/2 ". I had to stand on the top of the crate while Jason snapped the clips in place that hold the crate together. But at least I figured that the machines would not move around inside the crate as they were really pinned in place.

Post# 493219 , Reply# 11   2/1/2011 at 21:53 (4,803 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture

Very Nice Melvin, that Whirlpool BLUE is an extremely rare color. One can only imagine what you are going to do with the torch light.


Post# 493220 , Reply# 12   2/1/2011 at 21:56 (4,803 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        
Blue!

peteski50's profile picture
The Blue Whirlpool is awsome!

Post# 493237 , Reply# 13   2/1/2011 at 23:02 (4,803 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

daveamkrayoguy's profile picture
Yes, surely the washer I would'a bought, too, had I been around back then (& the matching dryer as well!), or at least if I were as old as I am now!

Now what features does it have? Variable Water Level? Five Temperatures? Magic-Clean Lint Filter? Two Speeds?


Dave (Charles Klamkin Fan!)


Post# 493267 , Reply# 14   2/2/2011 at 04:36 (4,803 days old) by beekeyknee (Columbia, MO)        
YouCrate

beekeyknee's profile picture
How does You Crate work. Was it very expensive?

Post# 493278 , Reply# 15   2/2/2011 at 06:41 (4,802 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
YouCrate Much?

mrb627's profile picture

Out of curiosity, what was the cost in shipping those two machines, if I might ask?

 

Malcolm


Post# 493287 , Reply# 16   2/2/2011 at 07:15 (4,802 days old) by yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
Youcrate.com....for the cube or tower is basically a flat rate of whatever you can fit in one container

Malcolm--when I got the SQ from you last year, from GA to NJ was just under 200.00.....with the price of gas going up.....the price is more than doubled

I got a quote yesterday from them, from NJ to SC.....one cube, 447.00.....

we may have to start seeking alternatives to transport these machines....


Post# 493294 , Reply# 17   2/2/2011 at 08:14 (4,802 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Yikes...

mrb627's profile picture

The 500.00 mark is a little too far up there unless the machine is MINT.

 

Malcolm


Post# 493298 , Reply# 18   2/2/2011 at 08:42 (4,802 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        
Trucking rates vary

The shipper R&L Carriers is one who I receive heavy palleted items each month to my business. It is that truck in the upper left of the first photo. Since they are use to delivering stuff to me, I am a known data point on their map. Thus for me If I use an old pallet and make my own box, I get a decent rate with shipping from them.

For a total turn around crater/shipper; You are paying for the crate, for a truck to find you, for a lift gate or not, the risk of being paid, risk of loss etc.

With a single pallet, it is not just its weight and volume, there are factors like the risks of a loss, the hassle if the customer has an odd shipping point, the time spent loading. Rates vary all over the place, rates are higher with more unknowns. If one is shipping 500 washers the truckers will fight over getting the business. With a lone washer the total crater/shipper might have a customer who has that old Bendix FL washer in somebodys basement, and there is 120 bucks just to get the beast out of the house.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO 3beltwesty's LINK


Post# 493366 , Reply# 19   2/2/2011 at 13:09 (4,802 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

With the freezing rain yesterday, I wasn't so sure that it would be delivered. After everything was said and done, the cost was ~$366. R&L is scheduled to pick up the cube today. I could have drove up to John's warehouse to get them, but it would have been ~14 hour drive one way, and it have cost at least $200-$300 in gas. Old pickup trucks don't get very good gas mileage. In my case, it was best to have them shipped to me.

beekeyKnee:
YouCrate is a freight transport service that will transport items(appliances)just about anywhere in the US you need them to be transported. To start that process, you go to youcrate.com, On the Home page, select whether you are residential or commercial. Next Apply for a free rate. You will get an email with the price for shipping the item. In my case, since John had the machines, I paid for the service, the cube crate was shipped out to him, and I had to email him the Bill of Lading to give to the driver when the cube crate was ready to be picked up. When the cube has been shipped to your local frieght carrier hub-center. They will give you a call to schedule a day to deliver your items to you. When you get the crate unpack it, then put it back together so it can be picked up. Call your freight carrier when the box is ready to be returned.

Doing this type of thing does require time, on the part of the shipper, and the person who has your items. When you do speak with youcrate on the phone, tell them as much info about where the items will be picked up and delivered as possible. For example, Residential locations require a truck with a liftgate, since there is no dock for the delivery truck to back in to. Getting all this straightened out will reduce errors during the transport process.

The rates do vary though. Being that some time and effort is required, this type of service may not be best in every situation.

John was VERY nice, patient, and took the time to send me these machines. He gets machines like the two above often, but ends up sending them to scrap. Was the youcrate service expensive? Yes, but so is driving up there. These particular machines are not are plentiful as say other DD machines or commercial machines. Since one is a dream machine and the other is a special mod machine in a rare color, their value and transport are priceless!

**UPDATE**-> empty crate box was just picked up!!

John(combo52):
Thanks a bunch!! Yes, when I took the first strap from the top, you could tell the top was under pressure. You sure did pack those machines in good. Now just remember, if you ever get the behemoth of an clothes extractor, I'll send a box up to you to get that! Also, since you have 3 phase power, I need to do better at talking you into getting a commercial FL washer!

Malcolm: Also you pay one flat rate.

The inspection of the blue machine continues:

Clean underneath! Not really any rust.


Post# 493368 , Reply# 20   2/2/2011 at 13:11 (4,802 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

Looks like a 2 speed motor.

Post# 493369 , Reply# 21   2/2/2011 at 13:13 (4,802 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

Magic clean filter

Post# 493370 , Reply# 22   2/2/2011 at 13:15 (4,802 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

Reservoir area looks good.

Post# 493371 , Reply# 23   2/2/2011 at 13:16 (4,802 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

No rear self leveling legs!

Post# 493372 , Reply# 24   2/2/2011 at 13:19 (4,802 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

Splash guard is DIRTY! Inside top needs cleaned too.

Post# 493373 , Reply# 25   2/2/2011 at 13:21 (4,802 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

OOOOOO! A Mercury lid switch!

Post# 493375 , Reply# 26   2/2/2011 at 13:23 (4,802 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

Does not look like it has any leaks.

Post# 493379 , Reply# 27   2/2/2011 at 13:34 (4,802 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

So lets apply some electric and see what happens:
This machine has no work area light! Machine vibrates excessively, does not agitate or spin. The dial should light up, bulb is blown, no light or ballast inside console for work area. I got a solution for that!! Most of all, NO TUB LIGHT! Shame a machine in this color has no lights, BIG PROBLEM!

Open the service panel:
belt does not move, motor pulley and trans pulley do, belt is not loose. I suspect the pump may be ceased. We'll see about that.


Post# 493380 , Reply# 28   2/2/2011 at 13:35 (4,802 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

back of the machine

Post# 493381 , Reply# 29   2/2/2011 at 13:37 (4,802 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

The wiring diagram is Very important for the mods .

Post# 493382 , Reply# 30   2/2/2011 at 13:39 (4,802 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

Left side of console.

Post# 493383 , Reply# 31   2/2/2011 at 13:41 (4,802 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

Right side

Post# 493385 , Reply# 32   2/2/2011 at 13:52 (4,802 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

Being that the M/N is LSA7800B0, I'm not so sure this console goes with this machine. I always thought LSA model washers were 1968 model year machines, and 1968 machines were just Whirlpool machines instead of RCA Whirlpool machines.
To my knowledge John had two of these blue machines. One must have been a model higher as that one probably had the bleach and FS dispensers, so that he could turn his Mark Imperial XII machine into a blue machine.

Question:
Based on the features of the console, does anyone know the true model number?


Post# 493392 , Reply# 33   2/2/2011 at 14:13 (4,802 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

Robert, as you'll see in the next few pictures, I have a small collection of HID lamps. They range from 35W to 1000W. Some are Metal Halide(MH), High Pressure Sodium(HPS), and Mercury Vapor(MV). Now my problem is that I can't decide if I want to use the 50W MH or the 100W MH for the blue machine.

Post# 493395 , Reply# 34   2/2/2011 at 14:15 (4,802 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

Some of these lamps are self-ballasted, others are required to reside in a specific position to operate.

Post# 493397 , Reply# 35   2/2/2011 at 14:17 (4,802 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

.

Post# 493398 , Reply# 36   2/2/2011 at 14:22 (4,802 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

I have a mod that I plan to do to the drive system. Since I want the machine to draw a max of 15 Amps, better stick with the 50W for now. The mod to the drive system will draw the vast majority of current.

Post# 493489 , Reply# 37   2/2/2011 at 18:47 (4,802 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture

Since I want the machine to draw a max of 15 Amps, better stick with the 50W

 

Is the bulb going to heat the water? Wink


Post# 493493 , Reply# 38   2/2/2011 at 18:56 (4,802 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

daveamkrayoguy's profile picture
Man, "Supreme", thanks for those Pics! What an awesomely excellent machine!

Please restore this elegant W/P washer to its most optimal potential & use it in the very best of health!

And maybe try to dig up its "mate"--the matching DRYER, too!


Dave (Charles Klamkin Fan!)


Post# 493556 , Reply# 39   2/2/2011 at 21:18 (4,802 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

Robert, that's so funny, you're too much!! lol. Actually, I'm concerned about the current draw of the Variable Frequency Drive module that I will use. Since I want the machine to operate on 115V AC 1 phase, a VFD that operates on 115V that runs a 230V AC 3 phase motor will draw a high amount of current. It's too bad my AB 1305 VFD/servo module would quite work for this application. It requires 460V AC 3phase. The motor I'm looking at getting is 1/2 HP 3450 RPM either TEFC or TENV inverter duty 230V AC 3 phase C-face mount.

Post# 493558 , Reply# 40   2/2/2011 at 21:26 (4,802 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

So, it turns out that the pump wasn't the problem at all. When the spin cam bar engages, the basket drive pulley locked up. I was able to get it free, but I think most of those parts need a little lubrication. I did grease the cam bars, and the machine did quiet down a bit. I did run a load, the machine seems to work ok, and does the "WooWoo" sound. Now I need to finish greasing the top of the transmission, and apply some oil to the inside of the spin tube bearings, etc.


DaveAMKayroGuy:
It's an old machine that needs to be shown some love. Definitely a special machine! I'll have to put the dryer on the list of machines that I have John look out for.


Post# 493567 , Reply# 41   2/2/2011 at 21:40 (4,802 days old) by cfz2882 (Belle Fourche,SD)        

nice old whirlpool!-looked like there were '67 date codes on the motor and
pump.


Post# 493603 , Reply# 42   2/3/2011 at 00:07 (4,802 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

Cool!!Another HID lamp collector!!I like to collect them too-and the fixtures!-and use them.There is a good supply of Fixtures and bulbs here-check with the electric contractors out here-they sometimes do complete light redo's in the local factories and shopping centers-then you can get some neat fixtures.another company -Growers Supply-sells fixtures for greenhouses with Digital ballast-these can run Metal Halide or High Pressure Sodium from the same ballast-they sell fixtures in 400W,1000W.the 400W ones work nicely-Can run 400W High pressure sodium,Pulse start metal halide,and probe start metal halide.(Most commonly used at present)PUlse start taking over-two electrode bulbs that use a High voltage ignitor with the ballast to start the bulb.Probe start doesn't use the high voltage ignitor.The Digital ballast may be just what the HID light collector needs.Some digital ballast can run with a multiple of primary voltages-it senses the voltage applied and adjusts the ballast characteristics.

Post# 493636 , Reply# 43   2/3/2011 at 07:44 (4,801 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
BLUE WP WASHER

combo52's profile picture
Hi Melvin glad the machines arrived in one piece, I see that I forgot to include the rear feet parts I do have these if you need them. The correct model # of your machine is LRA7800BO. When I do the rest of the restoration of the Mark12 I will send you the correct tag for your machine. So the top of yours is a 1967 and the rest is 1968. I also noticed that one of the three centering springs from the DD washer fell out when we were loading it and I have it. I thing all DD springs are the same but in any case I will save it for you.

Post# 493691 , Reply# 44   2/3/2011 at 13:43 (4,801 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

Rex(tolivac): Now that's interesting! I thought I was the only one. That adventure started in the 5th grade for me! I think you just opened a can of worms! Alright, I'll start a thread in the Super section on the HID fixtures and lamps. I have a few fixtures, but not many.

cfz2882):
Thanks for the info.

John(combo52):Actually I haven't even looked at the DD machine yet. Yes, If you could keep those parts for me, that would be great! You can include them in the next crate that I send you for more machines! lol.


Post# 493964 , Reply# 45   2/4/2011 at 14:11 (4,800 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        
Good news and bad news

The good news:
-machine works and does not leak.

The bad news:
-Machine vibrates excessively
-clothes basket has "play"

If one were to grab the sides of the basket and try to cause it to move side to side, one would realize that there is a fair amount of "play" in the bearings. I can't really determine the source of the excessive vibrations. I'm thinking that it is either the motor, or a consequence of the loose bearings in the spin tube and center post. I'll post a video shortly. Those of you WP/KN BD experts, please tell me what you think.


Post# 494055 , Reply# 46   2/5/2011 at 07:01 (4,799 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

Here is the first video. This is the noisiest Whirlpool I've worked with.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO supremewhirlpol's LINK


Post# 494091 , Reply# 47   2/5/2011 at 10:36 (4,799 days old) by cfz2882 (Belle Fourche,SD)        

does sound like some worn bushings alright..Also seemed there may be more than the
usual amount of motor groan-could be the rubber mount bushings have gotten
hard with age and are transmitting more vibration.Sometimes,if conditions
are just right,the motor's rotor can"float"in the stator's maghetic field
and create that sound-my filter flo does this on occaision.
The motors are very quiet on my '81 and '86 big BDs,but those have emerson
motors that seem to be quieter than GEs-the GE motor in my'77 24" BD is
a little loud but that might be difference between 29 and 24" BDs design


Post# 494102 , Reply# 48   2/5/2011 at 11:22 (4,799 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        
Thanks cfz2882

My experience with the square Emerson motors is that they were quiet, did not vibrate as much, but also ran hotter than the square GE motors. This barrel GE motor looks like there may be a chance that it can be rebuilt. I'll try an Emerson motor to see if the vibration goes away.

Post# 494206 , Reply# 49   2/5/2011 at 19:50 (4,799 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
NOISEY WP WASHER

combo52's profile picture
Hi Melvin the vibrating rattling noise you hear before it goes into spin is the top agitator shaft bearing, the additional racket you hear when it is spinning is the top center post bearings. The washer needs new center post bearings spin tube and agitator shaft. I can not tell if there is any problem with the motor, it seemed that when you made the video that there was another washer running in he back ground ?. If you want to see if the motor is excessively noisy remove the belt from the motor pulley and see what the motor sounds like, I am going to bet that the motor is OK.

Post# 494225 , Reply# 50   2/5/2011 at 21:10 (4,799 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

Thanks for the reply John, it's what I'm afraid of. That's the main reason I didn't disassemble this machine. Once you disassemble it, there's a bunch of things that will need replacing. The bearings I don't have the tools or expertise to replace. I would think the agitator shaft for the transmission is NLA. Well, this machine will just have to limp along. The mod to the drive system will have to be put on hold.

Yes, there are two machines running in the background, The Maytag dryer and the Primus with the rotary phase converter.


Post# 494228 , Reply# 51   2/5/2011 at 21:24 (4,799 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

I have uploaded a few videos of a wash cycle with the blue Whirlpool. Due to what it needs, it's best I don't use it anymore until the bearings and other stuff can be replaced.

Here is a video if the beginning fill


CLICK HERE TO GO TO supremewhirlpol's LINK


Post# 494230 , Reply# 52   2/5/2011 at 21:25 (4,799 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

The Cool Down

CLICK HERE TO GO TO supremewhirlpol's LINK


Post# 494231 , Reply# 53   2/5/2011 at 21:27 (4,799 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

low agitation

CLICK HERE TO GO TO supremewhirlpol's LINK


Post# 494232 , Reply# 54   2/5/2011 at 21:30 (4,799 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

Neutral drain

CLICK HERE TO GO TO supremewhirlpol's LINK


Post# 494233 , Reply# 55   2/5/2011 at 21:32 (4,799 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

Final Spin

->Probably should have left 1 or 2 sweat shirts out. I don't use TL machines very often.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO supremewhirlpol's LINK


Post# 494238 , Reply# 56   2/5/2011 at 21:46 (4,799 days old) by kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC)        

kenmoreguy64's profile picture
Melvin and cfz -

I agree with John, when you pushed on the basket and altered the vibration, my first hunch was confirmed that the centerpost bearings are worn. Its the top bearing that amplifies the noise, but they're both usually toasted by this point, or have enough play that both need to be replaced.

The agitator shaft I am a little less concerned about - my experience has been that tight centerpost bearings shore up any grooves in the agitator shaft that may cause vibration noises. BUT, if there is a lot of wear on the shaft, it will need to go too because the worn spots can chew up a new spin-tube seal which would be recommended when the bearings get re-done.

If this were my machine I would not be concerned just yet about the motor. I have heard far noisier belt-drives that had good motors, but it is very possible as it was said above that the vibration dampening rubber absorbers in the motor mounts may be dried out, thus transmitting any noise that is there.

I whole-heartedly agree with cfz about the Emerson motors. I have rarely encountered a bad one, same for a noisey one. I have had some wicked GE motors though - these DID transmit unholy sounds through the machine, and when really bad, they will fry the skin on your fingers when touching them, they get so hot. They make good boat anchors at that point. I can hardly remember a 1980s belt-drive that had a GE motor, though they seem to have seen widespread use in early 1970s models.

Good luck with the machine melvin. A bearing job isn't that big a deal if you can get your hands on the right tools.

Gordon


Post# 494241 , Reply# 57   2/5/2011 at 21:54 (4,799 days old) by Volvoguy87 (Cincinnati, OH)        
Bearings.

volvoguy87's profile picture
I have some KM Belt Drives that could use seals, if not bearings as well. What are the part numbers for the centerpost bearing tools and how much do they usually cost? Are the bearing tools needed for seal replacement?

WP/KM Belt Drive Centerpost bearings and seals are a mystery to me,
Dave


Post# 494243 , Reply# 58   2/5/2011 at 21:54 (4,799 days old) by kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC)        

kenmoreguy64's profile picture
Melvin -

I forgot to mention one thing: If the machine is cold when the vibrations are really bad, they sometimes will warm up and become much quieter. This to me anyway is a sign that the bearings aren't that bad yet.

The videos you added while I was typing above seem to confirm that. The machine sounds pretty respectable during drain and spin - all I can hear during spin is a bit of agitator growl (the agitator acts like a mega-phone when vibrations come from the agitator shaft).

Gordon


Post# 494248 , Reply# 59   2/5/2011 at 22:03 (4,799 days old) by kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC)        

kenmoreguy64's profile picture
Dave -

The bearing tools are long-ago NLA. The only ones I am familiar with were made by a company called Robinair, which nowadays is involved mostly in refrigerant recovery systems for HVAC and refrigeration. Calling that company a few years back revealed that few were even aware they had made the tools.

When they were available still in the early 90s, my cost with an account at the parts store was going to be $300 or $400 for a bearing remover and bearing installer. I wound up getting mine used, piece-meal on ebay.

As to bearing seals, these are rubber coated with metal centers. The single top seal can be removed on 1977 and older machines by carefully prying it out with a screw driver and needle-nosed pliers. In 1978 and newer machines with the short centerpost, I do not believe this to be possible. There are two seals in these which are two or three times as tall/thick each, and I think only a bearing remover could get them out. If anyone knows differently, I'd love to know.

Gordon


Post# 494249 , Reply# 60   2/5/2011 at 22:11 (4,799 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

Thanks Gordon!
Until I can get this done, the machine will serve as a good show piece.


Post# 494407 , Reply# 61   2/6/2011 at 10:34 (4,798 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
WP WASHER CENTER POST BEARINGS AND SEALS

combo52's profile picture
The part # of the seal and bearing kit is 285134 this kit fits all WP BD & DD washers washers built from 1947- the present DDs including all compacts, full size and super capacity washers. You will also need a new spin tube which comes with the agitator shaft bearings and seals already installed inside. And you will need a new or good used agitator shaft, I have never seen a washer of this age and worn condition that had good agitator shafts and spin tube.

Post# 494572 , Reply# 62   2/6/2011 at 22:26 (4,798 days old) by Volvoguy87 (Cincinnati, OH)        
More Bearing Tools:

volvoguy87's profile picture
I think a set of bearing tools is something I should plan on obtaining in the future. Are the tools the same for the short centerpost belt drives as it is for the tall centerpost belt drives? What is the official name of the tools and do they have any part numbers?

Sorry to be a pain, but it's something I know next to nothing about,
Dave


Post# 494627 , Reply# 63   2/7/2011 at 08:07 (4,797 days old) by kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC)        

kenmoreguy64's profile picture
Dave -

I don't remember the part numbers for the tools, but I believe the numbers are mentioned in my 1970s Kenmore repair manual. I'll let you know if I find them.

The tools are the same for the three centerpost lengths (I think they fit the spring-suspension portables too but I am not certain of that).

Have a good week!

Gordon


Post# 494631 , Reply# 64   2/7/2011 at 08:34 (4,797 days old) by yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
Melvin

What exactly, if I may ask, are the modifications you were going to do to this machine?.....

I have a 1983 WP Supreme, to turbocharge it, or at least kick it up a notch, I switched the pulley on the motor from 2 inch to 2 1/2 inch....this turned Gentle wash to normal, and normal to super scrubbing action....and the drain is full powered, blow the drain hose out of the tub pressure.....a little too much kick, the spin is nice and fast, but I need to find a 2 1/4 inch pulley should work best, a little kick is what I wanted, but not overkill...


Post# 494636 , Reply# 65   2/7/2011 at 08:47 (4,797 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)        
Yogi

mrb627's profile picture
We need a "Whirlpool's Gone Wild" video...

Malcolm


Post# 494657 , Reply# 66   2/7/2011 at 10:10 (4,797 days old) by yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
I should do that Malcolm.....this is something you have to see.....shocked me the first time....not what I expected, and wasn't thinking of when the drain kicked in....live and learn....

Post# 494683 , Reply# 67   2/7/2011 at 13:13 (4,797 days old) by drewz (Alexandria, Virginia)        

drewz's profile picture
WOW, never seen that color before, not even in an advertisement?

Special order, color made for a builder?

Really nice, I like!


Post# 494699 , Reply# 68   2/7/2011 at 14:50 (4,797 days old) by 3beltwesty ()        

My Aunt had a Sear Kenmore TL washer back in the 1960's that sort of was that color blue

Post# 494917 , Reply# 69   2/8/2011 at 13:26 (4,796 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

Hi Martin,
When I get the bearings and seals issues fixed, the original motor will be replaced with 3phase inverter duty TEFC motor and VFD system post#493556 will give you an idea of what the motor and VFD will look like. I will not change the pulley ration of the machine. Motor will be 1/2hp and 3450RPM.

I have thought about replacing the pump with an electric one, however in order to make it properly behave with the existing system (electrically) is not the easiest thing to do. Or perhaps I'm over thinking the logic. I have most of the puzzle figured out though.

This machine has no work area light. My mark imperial XII has one, but this one does not that's a definite NONO! There's no tub light either. That's what the HID lamp in post#493115 is for.

drewz:
I think the color was special order, and to my knowledge, the color was only offered on one or two models within the 1967-1968 time period.

Motor profiles:
These will have to be used so that when the machine is spinning it does not go either wild, fly apart, or implode. Being that I will keep the pulley ratio the same, during agitation the motor speed will be variable. During drain, the motor speed will be full nameplate rpm. When it is time for spin the rpm's will drop to ~1725rpm for normal spin, or 1140rpm, for slower spin. Keeping the timer and other electrics the same, I will have to add other switches, sensors, other machine controls in order to make this logic happen. The Whirlpool washer will still operate on 120v.


Post# 495018 , Reply# 70   2/8/2011 at 19:38 (4,796 days old) by bendixmark (Winchester Mass)        
spin noise

The noise you are hearing is vibration from excessive hum from the motor.Those round motors used to be known for being just as quiet as can be unless the machune had seen some overloading in its lifetime.I rebuilt and sold hundreds of washers like that years ago.One of the problems the 67s had was that around then Whirlpool dropped the water level lower so the high water level is not as high as it was on the earlier 60s models so when you had a normal full load in the machine it was already working too hard causing the motor to develop excessive hum.I am not hearing much centerpost bearing noise there most of that is the bearing in the spin tube which I believe is still available.If someone had a spare round motor or maybe the one you have can be rebuilt that would solve your problem.I used to see that all the time on those.Also I would give the water level switch a single turn or two to bring the level up 2 inches and after that it should purr.You should also make sure the belt isnt too tight that will also cause hum.

Post# 495039 , Reply# 71   2/8/2011 at 20:12 (4,796 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
NOISEY WP WASHER

combo52's profile picture
Remember Mark I had that washer in my shop and it has worn bearings, the normal hum-vibration of the motor will make worn bearings vibrate but the motor is fine. Also no amount of overloading any washer will damage the motor to the point that it will get louder and hum or vibrate, thats one of the most ridiculous theories I have ever heard. I would love to see anyone prove that theory.

Post# 495045 , Reply# 72   2/8/2011 at 20:20 (4,796 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

I have to go with John on this one. The basket has a little play in it, there's some bearings or seals somewhere that need to be replaced. Also, this machine is a million years old, the bearings and seals need to be replaced anyway.

Post# 495074 , Reply# 73   2/8/2011 at 21:17 (4,796 days old) by bendixmark (Winchester Mass)        
motor hum

Not ridiculous,The main cause of loud motor hum is overloading,either because the water level is low or because they are actually overloading the machine.I know this from rebuilding whirlpool washers like that one in my basement for the last 36 years.I live and breathe whirlpool washers.I would be willing to bet the centerpost bearings are fine,I know that noise oh so well.I used to hear that noise on belt drives that had an extremely loud motor and all the bearings were perfect.when centerpost bearings are really bad you will see crud coming out around the brake drum and a ring of oil spots on the cabinet.In the seventiies I did dozens of loud motor complaints and I used to replace the motor with a known quiet one ,raise the water level as needed ,educate the customer on loading and the problem never returned.I have been told by many I am nuts for thinking this but I also dont know anyone who has studied these machines as closely as I have.

Post# 495113 , Reply# 74   2/9/2011 at 03:08 (4,796 days old) by tbolt25 (Kentucky)        
Awesome BD Whirlpool

I saw those Youtube videos of that turquoise belted Whirlpool washer, and that is one killer good washing machine-I think supremewhirlpool should restore it from the ground up! It sounds as good as music!

Post# 495155 , Reply# 75   2/9/2011 at 07:57 (4,795 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
nOISEY WP WASHER

combo52's profile picture
Mark your observations are accurate and this goes to prove that sometimes there two ways to solve a noise problem. WP did have a lot of motor vibration problems with the square grey GE motors that were used in the 1970s, and we would often replace them or use the quite motor mount kit that WP sold to solve this problem. These motors were out of balance when they left the factory and in fact this often generated a warranty call and we fixed the problem under warranty. WP also had a tolerance problem with the top agitator shaft bearing in the spin tube starting in the mid 1970s and this caused the same annoying buzz that the worn out agitator shaft bearing does in Melvin's washer. As a result of this bearing problem we replaced many spin-tube assemblies in machines and the problem disappeared. GE and WP had a major disagreement going on around 1980 and WP never used and GE motors in thier appliances after this time and just used Emerson motors which were generally better balanced. But I will never believe that overloading a washer can cause the motor to become out of balance. Mark I would love to meet or talk to you some time I am sure we would have lots to talk about when you consider all the WP built machines we have both rebuilt, if you or anyone else come to the Washington area come and check out all the cool appliances.

Post# 495221 , Reply# 76   2/9/2011 at 12:43 (4,795 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

OH! So that's why only Emerson motors are used now.

Does anyone know the part no. for the spintube, and transmission, or transmission shaft?


Post# 496180 , Reply# 77   2/13/2011 at 10:41 (4,791 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

Time to look at the Whirlpool 24" DD. I've only seen 2 of these in person. I refer to this machine as 'Model 0'. It's a machine that I started searching for since ~2000, ever since I saw one for the first time.

Post# 496181 , Reply# 78   2/13/2011 at 10:43 (4,791 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

Console... As you can see, it looks like the BD models of this era.

Post# 496182 , Reply# 79   2/13/2011 at 10:45 (4,791 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        
Alco Appliance?

Hmmm...

Post# 496183 , Reply# 80   2/13/2011 at 10:49 (4,791 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

Design 2000
Regal series
3 cycle


Post# 496184 , Reply# 81   2/13/2011 at 10:53 (4,791 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

only 2 water levels! high and low

Post# 496186 , Reply# 82   2/13/2011 at 10:55 (4,791 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

Sell date

Post# 496188 , Reply# 83   2/13/2011 at 10:57 (4,791 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

Energy Guide

Post# 496189 , Reply# 84   2/13/2011 at 10:58 (4,791 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

)

Post# 496190 , Reply# 85   2/13/2011 at 11:00 (4,791 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

Spec. sheet

Post# 496213 , Reply# 86   2/13/2011 at 12:28 (4,791 days old) by kenmoreguy64 (Charlotte, NC)        

kenmoreguy64's profile picture
Melvin -

NEAT DD washer. Is this an early enough machine to have the pump in the back? I know that the first production did not have the pump centered in front, instead they were toward the back, at about 10 o'clock or 11 or so (I think).

As to the part numbers you asked for on your awesome belt-drive, they are:

For a complete basket drive and spin tube, the last part number was 383923 (NLA)

The complete transmission is 362901 (NLA). This is a universal replacement that fits all belt-drives except the pre-1974 super-tall centerpost machines.

You will need an 18-1/4" spin tube, which I believe is also NLA but is part 383921. Be careful not to get the tall spin tube which goes with the above tall transmission (doubtful you'd find one) or the very common 13.5" spin tube which is used on the 1978 and later models.

The agitator shaft is part number 285036. Same thing, most likely NLA.

Some of these items are still around, you'll just have to look for them.

Gordon



Post# 496289 , Reply# 87   2/13/2011 at 19:06 (4,791 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        

Thanks Gordon.
This machine is not early enough for the pump to be in the back. The first machine that I saw in 2000 was. However, it was in BAD shape, cabinet off, frame rusted Very bad.


Electrically speaking, this machine has had some patch work done to it, to which if it were not my machine, I would tell the owner to get a new one. I have gotten the machine working, however, the electrical patching done to this machine, I don't feel comfortable with. Before I get done with this machine, I will have to fix the existing patches. The frame looks very good for a machine this old. Tub spring was missing, took care of that. The main issue was the timer. The contacts for spin and agitate were so badly scored, the circuit was open. A little sand paper, electrical degreaser, and contact cleaner, causes the timer to work properly FOR NOW.

Here is shot of first wash. Machine is VERY quiet!!


Post# 496294 , Reply# 88   2/13/2011 at 19:24 (4,791 days old) by supremewhirlpol ()        
Neutral drain pause?

I've noticed that this machine does not pause for a neutral drain. Instead, The machine pause, then agitate, then pause, agitate, pause, spin. Transmission does not go to neutral drain, but engages the cam driver. Is this the correct behavior of this machine?

Post# 496296 , Reply# 89   2/13/2011 at 19:39 (4,791 days old) by kenmoreBD (Mass, usa )        

Yes that is normal for the early run dd washer. I think it was not until 1987 that they changed to a neutral drain.

Post# 496312 , Reply# 90   2/13/2011 at 21:29 (4,791 days old) by mistereric (New Jersey (Taylor Ham))        

mistereric's profile picture
Oh wow - any pictures of that little Sanyo portable? I might be getting one of those in terrible shape.

Post# 496315 , Reply# 91   2/13/2011 at 21:32 (4,791 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture

 

This is a 3rd model-year machine, and at least a 2nd-revision design.  It has a clothes guard ring on the basket, which was not on the first introduction model.  When working at the Whirlpool dealer, the first model we sold was LB5500XK.  If I am not mistaken, LB5500XK (1982 model-year) was the only model Whirlpool offered initially.  I have a service school book that covers it (dated 1981).  It had four water levels, three temps, four cycles (Regular/Heavy, Knits/Gentle, Perm Press, Soak/Prewash.  The console did not have wood-grain decor.  More model choices were added later.  XL is the next model-year (1983).  XM follows that (1984).

 

The sequence you state, which I assume is following the designated agitation time on the Normal cycle -- pause, agitate, pause, agitate, pause, spin -- does not seem normal to me.  Doesn't seem there should be a sequence of pause, agitate, pause and agitate again.  One pause for motor reversal should occur between agitate and drain.  My grandmother had an LA7400XM bought in November 1984.  I could be wrong, but I vaguely recall that it didn't pause between "drain" and "spin" on Normal being as there was no need to shift the transmission.  It did pause very briefly (long enough for the basket to brake to a stop) between drain and spin on Gentle & Perm Press for the motor to change speed (high-speed spin-drain, low-speed spin).

 

The machine you have there LA5430XM is a one-speed model, thus the Short cycle instead of Gentle.


Post# 496316 , Reply# 92   2/13/2011 at 21:47 (4,791 days old) by 70series ( Connecticut.)        

Great videos of the Whirlpool; thanks for posting. Always nice to see those Bakelite Surgilators in action.

Have a good one,
James


Post# 496369 , Reply# 93   2/14/2011 at 07:51 (4,790 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
EARLY WP DD WASHERS

combo52's profile picture

The timers in the early machines did have several pauses near the end of agitation in both wash and rinse, this was the point in the cycle where the lid switch came into use in the cycle if you opened the lid after this first pause the agitation would stop. When WP first designed this machine they thought they could get away no neutral drain and just make a cheaper to build washer like everyone else. But because of all the complaints about redeposited lint on clothing from trying to spin drain the washers they came up with a very clever way to make this new washer design do a neutral drain. WP started the change to ND in 1985 and by 1986 all DD models had this improvement. WP actually had to take back many early DD washers and give the customer a BD machine as WP & KM owners had always been used to better performance in regard to this linting problem. All other makers of perforated basket machines had this problem to one degree or another. This is why GE changed the hole pattern on thier wash baskets in the late 1960s, and Norge pumped out 1/2 of the water before trying to spin, and Frigidare 1-18s would start spinning at low speed to minimize this problem of water sloshing back over the clothes as draining and spinning started. MT never really did anything to solve this problem in thier machines but when they started promoting the Norgetags they claimed in thier own literature that you were going to see cleaner brighter clothes because of the more powerful pump and the small holes in the sides of the tub would allow the water to leave fast enough that your clean clothes don't become a lint and sediment filter for the dirty water as it leaves the machine.


Post# 496384 , Reply# 94   2/14/2011 at 09:36 (4,790 days old) by KenmoreGuy64 (Charlotte, NC)        

kenmoreguy64's profile picture
John / Combo -

I remember comments made about Whirlpool having to take back a bunch of DD machines in the early days. I am not sure where I heard this, but something tells me that the technician from Sears mentioned it in 1986 when he came out to level my BD machine (the steel pan it was in was causing issues), and I believe my mentor and friend told me this in the early 90s too. I think many of the service folks in the field didn't like the new DDs and were lamenting the loss of the BDs, so any failure in the DD was celebrated, until more people realized the DD's benefits.

I have never once had a linting problem in a BD machine, but then again every one I've used has had some sort of lint filter, be it the mesh screen or bed of nails manual, the cone shape or tub-mounted self-cleaner, OR the seemingly cheesy but functional tub mounted disk. I do have a nice BOL machine that I will be playing with soon that has no filter at all -- should be interesting to see if it delivers different results.

Gordon



Post# 496492 , Reply# 95   2/14/2011 at 21:50 (4,790 days old) by kenmoreBD (Mass, usa )        

OK I see I did not know that whirlpool made dd before 1985. The first run was on the smaller washers?

Post# 496501 , Reply# 96   2/14/2011 at 22:49 (4,790 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
EARLY WP DD WASHERS

combo52's profile picture

The LB550XKWO that we have restored at our museum has a serial # that begins C133 so it was made the 33rd week of 1981.


Post# 496733 , Reply# 97   2/15/2011 at 20:55 (4,789 days old) by bendixmark (Winchester Mass)        
Noisey Motors

Hey John.I would love to meet or talk to you sometime also as we have much to discuss.As far as my theory on noisey motors goes I noticed a distinct pattern to them early on.Most of the noisey motors I saw were on 14 pound Whirlpools which are far easier to overload than 18s.The water level on the noisey machines was always too low also.Water level adjustment is something I have never seen covered here which is critical for any topload to wash properly.Clothes should be submerged.The motors that were loud were always in situations where I knew for a fact the machine was being overloaded as the customers came right out and told me or did so after I gave them the bare bulb treatment.(I think people who overload washers should be thrown in jail.)When I was servicing whirlpools in a home where I could tell the people were concientious about loading the motor was always quiet.Most importantly of all the drive belt tells the tale.Every very loud motor I saw the belt looked terrible.Also just about every beltdrive coin op washer I have ever seen had an extremely loud motor and we certainly know THOSE machines are being overloaded and had low water levels.You mentioned those GE motors they used to use,those were the loudest of all and I replaced hundreds of them with quieter emersons or round ones.However I installed many a new Whirlpool washer in the 70s and 80s and never saw one I thought loud new,I felt they got loud from overloading later.As far as vibrating bearing noise I have always attributed that to motor vibration more than anything else.If you grasp the agitator cap when the machine is running in neutral there should be little or no vibration if there is more than that the motor is the problem.Those Emerson motors were relatively quiet but nothing like a round one.The ones from 1977-80 were pretty quiet but then after that they got alot noisier and that is when the trouble began.My other point is that you dont often see a noisey motor on a Maytag or ff GE because when those machines are overloaded the motor doesnt take the the brunt of it because the belt slips.You will also see alot of loud motors in Amana washers as it a similar design as a beltdrive Whirlpool,When overloaded the motor and belt are absorbing the beating. As far as that blue whirlpool goes,I wouldnt change a thing you cant improve on perfection and there could be unforseen difficulties.Regarding the centerpost bearings you never will do better than the ones it came with and they are either bad or they are not.At least when you replace them you can install the upper one to a lower depth then install 2 upper seals which is why they went bad in the first place there used to be only one seal.


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