Thread Number: 33785
KDS-18 Stored since 1983 help!! Appnut, stevet!! 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 507689   3/28/2011 at 16:37 (4,774 days old) by alabamboy ()        

Have run about 6 or 7 normal washes and a pot scrub wash. No leaks. Decided to install, ran a final normal wash no problems. Loosened lower gold band to slip on rubber gasket at bottom of door which had come off partially. Reattached, filled with jet dry. Decided to run short wash--nothing! Canceled wash. Decided to run Normal Wash. Started filling but motor never came on. It filled with water but no motor. Just a humming noise. Canceled wash, timer went through cycles quickly but never discharged water. Washer is now full of water!!! Help. Am I overlooking something, a switch? Solenoid?




Post# 507729 , Reply# 1   3/28/2011 at 18:55 (4,774 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
DEAD KDS-18

 combo52's profile picture

What gold band did you loosen? I don't know if what you did had anything to do with its not working. Is it the main motor that is humming? is it getting warm? maybe a wire for the motor got disconnected ?.
Post# 507769 , Reply# 2   3/28/2011 at 21:03 (4,774 days old) by alabamboy ()        
Gold band, metal strip removal..

 I loosened the metal strip at the bottom of the door (on the exterior) that holds a rubber gasket. This metal strip also holds a wire harness or group of wires that apparently go to the timer. Did I lossen a wire that goes to the timer? Should I remove the exterior panel and look? Any help appreciated!!-Tom



Post# 507825 , Reply# 3   3/29/2011 at 05:24 (4,774 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        
Ah, Happened to me

 toploader55's profile picture

I betcha one wire somewhere got loose or disconnected. Check under the machine all the wire connections. Sounds like something is not connected.

When I got my first KDS 18 during transport a wire got loose. Eddie

Post# 507843 , Reply# 4   3/29/2011 at 07:39 (4,774 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
Check and recheck!

 Since you moved the retainer that also held the wiring harness in place, you will now have to remove the top door panel and remove the harness from that strip and make sure that none of the wires broke or became disconnected. All the wires from the timer and program switch go thru the door and that channel down to the components. It sounds like you disconnected one of the motor wires which are blue and then connect to the black wire coming out of the motor itself down on the bottom of the machine.

Also remember that the harness makes a bend whenever the door is opened and you could have a split wire in the bend as well. Do a thorough visual check and make sure all is okay and then you will find the problem.

I never assume that any old machine like that is working perfcectly. Why would someone get rid of it if it was? The odds are that something is wrong but sometimes we get lucky and there isn't, only to have something crap out later on.

Post# 507878 , Reply# 5   3/29/2011 at 10:23 (4,774 days old) by alabamboy ()        
Yo Steve!!!

 I removed the exterior panel and pulled the wire harness down out of the chanel it travels and did a visual. Everything looks good, wires are in what appear to be great shape. Disconnected blue wire from black wire leading to motor and tested with voltmeter, when I closed the door and pressed "Normal Wash" I got 118-119v. The motor appears to be getting current. The first time I ran the machine after receiving it, it made an awful screeching sound(I associated it with the motor bearings) that stopped midway through the initial Normal Wash cycles and never returned with each successive run. Since the machine sat so long, did the motor freeze and die? Is there another wire I should check?

Post# 507914 , Reply# 6   3/29/2011 at 12:26 (4,774 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
Self test

 Since the motor does not use a start relay, you can actaully test it by connecting the black and white wires from the motor directly to a 120v power source.If it runs then it is something else. BUT.... Before you do that, check to make sure that the white wire has not fallen off somewhere under the machine. It is probably piggy backed on to the drain valve or other component that has a white wire going to it.You may have knocked it loose or pulled it off by accident.The screeching btw, may have been the cooling fan on the motor. Sometimes they crack where they are on the motor shaft and then they either catch up to the speed of the motor or they break off and just lay there not making any noise.And they are almost impossible to find anywhere.

Post# 507920 , Reply# 7   3/29/2011 at 13:19 (4,773 days old) by alabamboy ()        
Performed test

 Hey Steve, checked the piggyback white wire from motor and it was on the drain valve with other wires as you said. It was on snug but I pulled it off just to check and pushed it back on. Clipped white wire and seperated black and blue wires,connected to 120v source. The 120 source I used was the power to the machine. I merely diconnected from machine and connected directly to motor, I was then able to use the breaker as my switch. When I switched the breaker, motor did not start but hummed for 4-5 secs. It seemed to have a pattern of intermittedly humming for 4-5 secs then stopping for 10-15sce before humming agian. Do I need another motor? I have a KDC-18 in storage in fantastic shape. --Tom

Post# 507940 , Reply# 8   3/29/2011 at 15:09 (4,773 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
motor bit the dust!

 It sure sounds like the start windings are shot or the motor is jammed and the motor is cutting out on thermal overload. Check and see if the motor turns freely when you take the wash arm support off. The impeller may be in need of shimmimg again or it is not riding on the shaft properly. Let us know.

Post# 507964 , Reply# 9   3/29/2011 at 17:00 (4,773 days old) by alabamboy ()        
Broke pump housing down to impeller,

 Turned impeller to make sure turning freely, it is. Performed another hard test of the motor connected directly to a 120v source. Motor kicked on!!! Rewired back to machine, pressed "Normal Wash" and nothing!!! Checked blue wire again, still reading 120v. Rehardwired motor and broke pump housing down to impeller again. Turned impeller, removed impeller and performed hard test. Motor kicked on. Replace impeller, preformed hard test, motor kicked on. Rewired machine back to standard setup pressed "Normal Wash" and voila, damn thing kicked on. Is running through normal wash cycles as we speak. I did interrupt the cycles in order to replace lower rack, but she came right back on when I closed door and pressed button. What gives? Dust? Start windings as you mentioned? --Tom

Post# 508003 , Reply# 10   3/29/2011 at 19:33 (4,773 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
NOW IT WORKS, NOW IT DON'T

 Sheesh!
Isn't this a head scratcher?
It still sounds like there is something wrong with the motor. Do you have access to the bottom by turning the machine on its side or back? (empty of course)

I would say that the problem lies in the start winding portion of the motor and the most likley spot would be the small plastic stationary start switch mounted in the lower cover of the motor.If the contacts of this switch do not close, the motor will hum and not turn and then shut down on overload.

You can get to it by removing the 4 long screws that attach the lower housing to the motor and gently pull the cover off the motor. It will stay in the machine and nothing will be damaged, but the connectors on the switch are delicate and there switch is actually no longer available but I can tell you that there is one available if you need it.
Remove it and check to make sure the contacts are clean and closing. If you break the switch, you can probably toss the motor if someone gets to the switch I mentioned before you do! However a really good motor shop may be able to get you something to work in its place.

So clean it and return it to its rightful spot and put the cover back on the motor and see if it works. Give it a few test starts if you want to but not for an extendie period of time unless you place the machine back upright so the seal has some water on it. Sideways running is bad as the seal will be dry.

Let us know what you find as usual!
Steve

Post# 508004 , Reply# 11   3/29/2011 at 19:38 (4,773 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
Bait and switch?

 Did anyone notice anything about the motor and this thread?

Anyway,here is a picture of the start switch on that motor pictured above and as fate would have it, you can clearly see where the contact area of the switch on the left side shows the remnants of arcing across the switch contacts. BTW, this motor does actually work well but was not as quiet as the newer Emerson built motor on my original KDS18 that came down to Florida with us and my wife keeps asking me to reinstall in the kitchen!

Hope this helps you get to the bottom of this.


Post# 508022 , Reply# 12   3/29/2011 at 20:08 (4,773 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
DEAD KDS-18

 combo52's profile picture

As I suggested a while ago you have a motor problem You may be able to fix or replace the bad centrifugal switch, or if easier change out the complete motor.
Post# 508149 , Reply# 13   3/30/2011 at 07:51 (4,773 days old) by alabamboy ()        
Will get to it today,

 and take photos as I go so you can see the progress. Thanks again Steve!!!

Post# 508180 , Reply# 14   3/30/2011 at 11:20 (4,773 days old) by alabamboy ()        
Cleaning the starter switch

 Leaned the machine back removed the motor cap to find the culprit(hopefully), the dirty starter switch.

Post# 508181 , Reply# 15   3/30/2011 at 11:23 (4,773 days old) by alabamboy ()        
Removed switch(gingerly) and soaked in degreaser

 for 15-20 minutes and used an old toothbrush to gently scrub area careful to not bend contacts

Post# 508182 , Reply# 16   3/30/2011 at 11:26 (4,773 days old) by alabamboy ()        
Reattached switch and tested, it

 works(I know its a bad photo). Thanks again Steve, I learned a lot!!!

Post# 508195 , Reply# 17   3/30/2011 at 13:15 (4,772 days old) by rp2813 (Sannazay)        

rp2813's profile picture

Another KDS-18 success story as a result of a simple (relatively) fix. These machines just can't be killed. Enjoy it now that it's up and running properly!
Post# 508256 , Reply# 18   3/30/2011 at 19:40 (4,772 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
De Nada!

 You are very welcome. There is no other place on earth that you can get answers to questions like yours. And thanks to all the other guys too. We are an awesome team!

Post# 508314 , Reply# 19   3/31/2011 at 03:22 (4,772 days old) by jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
This is the exact same thing you see

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in a lot of Delco motors. Especially those used in the early rollermatic machines and in the Bendix Gyromatics from 1950-1958.

 

Switches are mechanical and so they will fail first. Dirt and arcing are the culprits on contacts. Whenever I rebuild a Gyromatic I always break down the centrifugal switch , lube the weight and clean the contacts with emery paper. You want those contact buttons to be as smooth and flat as possible.

 

Good work guys, this is an awesome site for us all.

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