Thread Number: 34373
The Very Best Combo Ever In History!! |
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Post# 515889   5/5/2011 at 18:23 (4,711 days old) by mrcleanjeans (milwaukee wi)   |   | |
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What is THE very best combo in history? Me thinks it is the 1958 Bendix DuoMatic! This should be interesting, thanks! |
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Post# 515890 , Reply# 1   5/5/2011 at 18:28 (4,711 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )   |   | |
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Second the bendix, but I think all the Bendix combo's are superior. |
Post# 515892 , Reply# 2   5/5/2011 at 18:29 (4,711 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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Post# 515898 , Reply# 3   5/5/2011 at 18:56 (4,711 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Best combos of the 1950s hands down the big 1952-8 Bendix. The best of the 1960s and best overall is the 1961-1971 WP and WP built KMs. Both the Bendix and the 29" WP built combos got a little better as time went on in terms of reliability. I always said that these were the two best combos but like most 1950s washers they were not nearly as reliable as the washers of the 1960s and washers got even better for the most part in the 1970s.
I have as many of you know a 1957 Bendix combo that was only used about three years and put in storage. Last fall before our trail washer party my great friend John E the worlds greatest living Bendix combo expert spent many hours getting the 57 up and running. And it runs with few problems and several weekends since last fall I have taken my laundry over the the warehouse to do in various classic washers while I worked on others. And the Bendix is a very cool machine, but no where near the match overall for the very capable WP built 29" combos. The WPs with thier triple dispensers auto dry and lighted interior automatic prewash and powered rotospray washing are just plain more fun and effective. Even John E has a 1970 KM gas combo that he really loves, but he may well be more partial to the Bendix as I am to the WPs. |
Post# 515901 , Reply# 4   5/5/2011 at 19:25 (4,711 days old) by mrcleanjeans (milwaukee wi)   |   | |
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What was the powered RotoSpray ,John ? Was it the same as the JetStream washing of the 50s? |
Post# 515904 , Reply# 5   5/5/2011 at 19:39 (4,711 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Post# 515912 , Reply# 6   5/5/2011 at 20:58 (4,711 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 515921 , Reply# 7   5/5/2011 at 21:36 (4,711 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))   |   | |
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Post# 515971 , Reply# 9   5/6/2011 at 07:55 (4,710 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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Post# 516022 , Reply# 11   5/6/2011 at 13:27 (4,710 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA)   |   | |
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Post# 516584 , Reply# 12   5/9/2011 at 12:30 (4,707 days old) by spin-it ()   |   | |
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I have heard from other members about the operating system of the WP combos. Could someone possibly post a diagram or info explaining the operation, especially the pneumatic air system and speed shifting. Thanks, Kevin |
Post# 517595 , Reply# 17   5/14/2011 at 00:40 (4,703 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA)   |   | |
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You say that Bendix so patented the Duomatic that no other manufacturer could build a competitive machine. What about today? Would the patents have "run out" or could whoever inherited Bendix "license" the design? That is, could a manufacturer if they wanted to build a Duomatic today?
It seems that a combination machine the size of the inside of the Duet might sell well, even if it could only hold half the laundry, for apartments in places like NY city. |
Post# 517617 , Reply# 19   5/14/2011 at 05:50 (4,703 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)   |   | |
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To answer your question all the patents on Bendix are now public domain so anyone could build a Duomatic today. The funny thing is Neptune blundered in the first few designs because they spent $1Mil in research that they could've easily gotten from the 1939 Bendix Patents! The research Bendix did in the mid 1930's defined what a front loader should be since they invented the Automatic Washer.
When I started collecting and all of your were still shaking rattles , I was very green. I used to come across lots of Bendix machines and turn them down because they were so simple mechanically. The rollermatics intrigued me. Now I realize with hind site that the reason Bendix was so simple was due to the fact that they were the first and so got it right with the easiest mechanical method. John & I have discussed this a lot, GE made their Combo along with Sears right up to 1970 and quit! If they only had continued another 5 years they would have hit the Condo Boom and those machines would have been SO much better for a Condo than those ridiculous Up/Down things that burp after two pair of pants are loaded in them. |
Post# 517812 , Reply# 21   5/14/2011 at 16:27 (4,702 days old) by spin-it ()   |   | |
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Did the Duomatics have a suspension system or did they also get bolted down? Does anyone know of patent numbers for any combos to be found on Free Patents? |
Post# 518185 , Reply# 24   5/16/2011 at 04:35 (4,701 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)   |   | |
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And not only did they ignore the design of the Bendix, they also ignored the construction that Bendix discovered. Bendix found there is a certain optimal gap ratio between the outer tub and inner tub that allows washing currents to carry away dirt and soil. Maytag ignored this and got the outer tub as close to the inner tub as possible to save water. That created all kinds of problems not the least the mold problem.
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Post# 518204 , Reply# 26   5/16/2011 at 08:00 (4,700 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Other US combos used hydraulic shocks as dampers in thier suspension systems, the 1957-? Hotpoint's and the all the SQ Combos 1961-? and of course all WH slant front washers from 1959-1963. So it would be interesting to see if Bendix really had a patent on this or whether they paid royalties to Bendix [ calling Mr patent expert Jon are you there ].
The last WP built KM combos were made in the fall of 1971 and the last GEs were made in late spring of 1972 I have machines from these dates.
On rinsing I am sure that having a fast spin between the wash and various rinses will do a better job of rinsing overall. But having had a GE and KM combo in my laundry arsenal for over 30 years I can say they rinse just fine, I seldom if ever feel the need to add an extra rinse. There at least too schools about rinsing and I have always subscribed to the idea not to over rinse. Detergents have properties that protect the clothing and the washer and unless you have perfectly soft mineral free water as you keep rinsing the last of the detergent out you are leaving mineral deposits in your clothing and washer. These deposits can make your clothing dual and gray and less soft, the mineral deposits destroy water pump and main seals in the washer and harm every other part of the washer that water touches. There is certainly no one correct answer for the amount of rinsing necessary in any given wash load, but in general the appliance manufactures knew what they were doing.
I still believe the best ever US built combo is the 29" WP built machines as they were the only one that got a nice large capacity machine into the space of a regular washer. But it is a little unfair to compare a great 1950s machine to a 2nd generation 1960s machine. It would be like comparing the best car of the 1950s to the best car from the 1960s. The 1960s car would win on many important areas not the least of which would be durability. I would be the first to call the original 36" 1952-1958 Duomatics one of the 10 best laundry appliances ever made. I would also include the 29" WP built combos, the original bolt down Bendix washers, the WP BD washers 1947-1987, the MT helical drive machines 1956-2006, the WP DD washers 1982-2011, the GE FF washers 1961-1995 and the Frigidare 1-18s 1970-1980. To me these are some of the most significant designs that made laundry history. |
Post# 518221 , Reply# 28   5/16/2011 at 09:52 (4,700 days old) by peteski50 (New York)   |   | |
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Post# 518222 , Reply# 29   5/16/2011 at 09:53 (4,700 days old) by peteski50 (New York)   |   | |
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Post# 518223 , Reply# 30   5/16/2011 at 09:53 (4,700 days old) by peteski50 (New York)   |   | |
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Post# 518224 , Reply# 31   5/16/2011 at 09:54 (4,700 days old) by peteski50 (New York)   |   | |
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Post# 518225 , Reply# 32   5/16/2011 at 09:55 (4,700 days old) by peteski50 (New York)   |   | |
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Post# 518310 , Reply# 34   5/16/2011 at 17:20 (4,700 days old) by retromania (Anderson, South Carolina)   |   | |
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Made combo washer/dryers? Did all the major mfgr's get in on it? |
Post# 518340 , Reply# 36   5/16/2011 at 19:40 (4,700 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)   |   | |
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Bendix used the Gyromatic patent for the Combo, which was filed sometime around 1943-1949. So the earliest it would have run out would have been 1960 and the latest 1966. So whoever used shocks (ie Westinghouse used damper plates and springs) paid a royalty for it. Westinghouse actually paid Bendix $125,000 in 1939 ( almost $3 mil today) to use the flush drain rinse feature so they worked very hard to get around the shock absorbers and succeeded. |
Post# 518432 , Reply# 38   5/17/2011 at 06:19 (4,700 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)   |   | |
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it was the flush with the drain open so the machine could be washed out before the rinse. Westinghouse had a devil of a time with suds (as I am sure you are aware) especially in the days of washing soap, pre-detergents. They had to throw in the towel so to speak in 1939 in the development phase otherwise they could have never competed in the market place. I am thinking of assembling all these documents on a Wiki-page or Facebook page on the history of Automatic washers. That way everybody can share it.
Jet |
Post# 518448 , Reply# 39   5/17/2011 at 07:28 (4,699 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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WOW it would be fascinating to know the whole story of what happened to this promising looking combo. It does seem to make sence that HP got threatened with a massive law suite from Bendix for them to give up on and recall a machine that they spent millions designing and building. Jon you say the patent may have expired around 1960, that may explain why SQ introduced a machine that was the same design[ but down sized to 25 1/2" wide ] in 1961 as the 1957 HP combo. It is also interesting that WH slant front washers all used two shocks from 1959-1963 and interestingly they were Bendix shocks.
It would be so cool to know how some of these things came to be, there may even people still living that know some of these answers. |
Post# 518615 , Reply# 41   5/17/2011 at 18:29 (4,699 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Post# 518726 , Reply# 42   5/18/2011 at 03:59 (4,699 days old) by laundromat (Hilo, Hawaii)   |   | |
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To this day, I have no clue why the companies making full size combos (LG,Daewoo,and Samsung) aren't making them available here in 220 volt version as well as 110 volt gas.Now that front loaders are popular as well as upstairs laundry rooms, why these have yet to come around is beyond my comprehention.The full size LGs I sold worked great and their owners love them. the trick to speeding them up is to wait until the end of the final spin and remove half the load.This enables the smaller load to dry faster and then you reset the dry program to dry the rest.If they were able to increase the wattage and/or make the heater a gas one,the cycle time would be minimized.In as much as people do laundry in their own sort of way where they wait sometimes days to remove it from the washer to move the now smelly wash into their dryer,if they had a combo,they'd be set.The time between the final spin and the actual transfer from the washer to the dryer varies from 5 minutes to 24 hours.With all the millions LG has profitted,you'd think they'd have at least on trial model out.Especially now that they're on the top line with Sears Holdings.
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Post# 518750 , Reply# 44   5/18/2011 at 07:18 (4,698 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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These are a great disappointment not only as Chuck stated that they are only 120 volts but they are only made in a water condensing dryer that wastes another 1/2 dozen gallons of water per hour and even the little 1/2 sized load still easily takes an hour and 1/2 or more to dry.
We in the appliance service industry still see no evidence that LG and for that matter Samsung and a few other imported brands get the message that when an appliance breaks the vast majority of Americans want it fixed. These companies do not see the need to sell parts and provide service information through established channels or to have any parts at all stocked locally so repairs can be completed quickly.
At this time we still do not recommend most imported appliances unless they are branded with a name that sells parts and stocks them at brick & mortar outlets near us. Our major parts distributor is less than two miles from our shop, I stop by almost every day this allows us to complete 80% of our service calls on the first try. We are seeing a large number of LG and Samung appliances in the scrap areas of the several distributors we use most often waiting to be crushed and recycled. |
Post# 518801 , Reply# 45   5/18/2011 at 10:54 (4,698 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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With the plastic outer drums that are used nowadays it's not an option to manufacture gas combos. Besides that, you would need a vent for the gas fumes and I think a burner under a drum doesn't make it very efficient, like gas cooking a lot of the energy is wasted.
I guess a 220V combo would be a better option, but I'm not sure that I would want an appliance with a plastic drum with a large heater that isn't submerged in water when it's performing a drying cycle. |
Post# 519131 , Reply# 47   5/19/2011 at 18:00 (4,697 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)   |   | |
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Kevin, you can click on his member name and get his regular email address. You don't have to use the AW email, although we can't guarantee your results will be as bright, soft and fresh-smelling as with AW email. |
Post# 519465 , Reply# 48   5/21/2011 at 06:48 (4,696 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)   |   | |
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I really like my FAGOR cookware, it is well built so I would bet this might be as well built. Anyone seen one yet?? 9# wash AND dry is what the Bendix Combo does, ventless installation too. 13# wash cycle, choice of spin speeds and no spin too.
OOOooooo I"m jones-ing! CLICK HERE TO GO TO Jetcone's LINK |
Post# 519472 , Reply# 49   5/21/2011 at 08:03 (4,695 days old) by tlee618 ()   |   | |
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Well it's about time!! That is so interesting Jon, thanks for sharing it. It would be great to see one in person. So since it is ventless that must mean it's a condensing dryer??? Terry |
Post# 519478 , Reply# 50   5/21/2011 at 08:30 (4,695 days old) by spin-it ()   |   | |
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Finally upgraded membership...Yeah! I used AW mail, if I did it correctly there should be a message waiting. Thanks, Kevin |
Post# 519708 , Reply# 53   5/22/2011 at 12:18 (4,694 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Another pint sized 24" combo with very weak drying ability. Lets hope that it is actually rated to run on a strong 240 volt line as we have here in the US. I see many European cooking and laundry appliances that are sold here that have 200- 220 volt elements in them which is what they have in much of Europe. Well needless to say they often don't last too long on 240 volts and often fail in a rather spectacular array of sparks and flame when they short out. It also stresses the wiring and all the switches and controls in the machine. Lots of burned wire connections and components are the result. |