Thread Number: 35911
Take a look at my KD-12
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Post# 535570   8/7/2011 at 18:36 (4,616 days old) by henry200 ()        

I got it a week ago but today is the first chance I've had to take a good look at this dishwasher and start assessing what I'll need to do to bring it up to par.  First off, to state the obvious, a thorough stripping and paint-job is in order, and the ends of the start switch are broken off.

 

 





Post# 535574 , Reply# 1   8/7/2011 at 18:38 (4,616 days old) by henry200 ()        

Looking inside...


Post# 535576 , Reply# 2   8/7/2011 at 18:39 (4,616 days old) by henry200 ()        

The detergent cup, with detergent ready to go!


Post# 535577 , Reply# 3   8/7/2011 at 18:40 (4,616 days old) by henry200 ()        

An enterprising solution to small items slipping through the silverware basket.


Post# 535578 , Reply# 4   8/7/2011 at 18:41 (4,616 days old) by henry200 ()        

Fairly clean inside and no chips in the porcelain.


Post# 535579 , Reply# 5   8/7/2011 at 18:42 (4,616 days old) by henry200 ()        

Filter screens


Post# 535580 , Reply# 6   8/7/2011 at 18:45 (4,616 days old) by henry200 ()        

The sump area.  The house this dishwasher came out of obviously had hard water.


Post# 535581 , Reply# 7   8/7/2011 at 18:46 (4,616 days old) by henry200 ()        

The water inlet manifold looks iffy


Post# 535582 , Reply# 8   8/7/2011 at 18:50 (4,616 days old) by henry200 ()        

Looking underneath.   The wiring looks pretty good overall, but there's some rust which doesn't bode well.  What do you think?


Post# 535583 , Reply# 9   8/7/2011 at 18:55 (4,616 days old) by henry200 ()        

There's one very important part missing......the drain valve!  The person I bought this from had a tough time getting the dishwasher disconnected in order to remove it from the house and somehow misplaced the part.  He has looked high and low and can't seem to find it.  I hope I can find another one somewhere in the universe!


Post# 535584 , Reply# 10   8/7/2011 at 18:58 (4,616 days old) by henry200 ()        
What's the concensus?

So, what do you think?  This will be my first major appliance restoration and I'm hoping to take advantage of the wonderful collective wisdom here!

 

Neil


Post# 535593 , Reply# 11   8/7/2011 at 19:52 (4,616 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
You sure know how to pick them! This will be a challenge.

Bad news, buddy. Just checked availability of the drain valve from Hobart and there are none available anywhere and the number has been deleted from the parts inventory system. There are 5 shaft seals available but not all in the same place, with the closest one in the Chicago office if they still have it.

The water leak that seems to be near the motor may just have been a loose screw on the mounting plate in the tank. DONT take the motor out if it is running nice and quietly. Unless you can find the gaskets leave it alone. Tighten the screws and be done with it. The seal goes in from the top very easily too.

There seems to be some water trace lines that have followed the tank contours which is somewhat normal and have dripped down to the motor area. Once you can fill and run the machine, you will see where they are coming from and work to fix them.

See if you can get a valve from one of the members here or find yourself another machine as a donor. I would plug it in and do a test run on the motor at least and see how it sounds. you wont really harm it if you run it without water for a short period of time. That way at least you know if it runs or not.

As far as the lime scale goes, if you live in a city with naturally soft water or you have a softener in the house, when you get it running, the lime will all come off in time with regular use just because the soft water will strip it away. You dont need to run any deliming solutions in the machine and even though the porcelain looks pretty good, I would not want to compromise it with any type of acid if it isnt necessary. Then you will want to check further for more leaks as the lime may have self sealed some of them.

I think you will get it all put together with the help of the members here.

Just take it slowly and get your parts lined up after you know the motor at least works!

Keep asking us questions and we will all be glad to walk you thru it.
Steve


Post# 535595 , Reply# 12   8/7/2011 at 20:11 (4,616 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
Looky Here!

Just went searching for some parts for your machine and found this where there are alot of good parts available. You may find some of what you may want here. Give it a shot! Good Luck

CLICK HERE TO GO TO stevet's LINK on eBay


Post# 535601 , Reply# 13   8/7/2011 at 20:34 (4,616 days old) by appnut (TX)        
Someone with a KDS12

appnut's profile picture

Isn't there someone who needs a full cycle button for a KDS12?  it's there on the ebay link above Stevet posted.   In fact, they have all 3 pushbuttons for the KDS12 at that site.


Post# 535602 , Reply# 14   8/7/2011 at 20:41 (4,616 days old) by appnut (TX)        
Start Switch

appnut's profile picture

that's also at the ebay site.


Post# 535603 , Reply# 15   8/7/2011 at 20:50 (4,616 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA)        

neptunebob's profile picture

I have a drain valve from a KD16 that maybe, if the hose is the same size might work.  It did buzz loudly when it was working.  But guess what, our new KitchenAid sometimes buzzes loudly too and we had it only 6 months.


Post# 535617 , Reply# 16   8/7/2011 at 21:38 (4,616 days old) by henry200 ()        

The drain solenoid is still there.  It remains to be seen if it works.  I'm just missing the actually valve/drain coupling.  This is a gravity drain model.


Post# 535626 , Reply# 17   8/7/2011 at 22:44 (4,616 days old) by henry200 ()        

The door gasket is dried up and crumbling a bit at the bottom.


Post# 535628 , Reply# 18   8/7/2011 at 22:48 (4,616 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        
Hmmmmmmm.

toploader55's profile picture
I may have a Dryer Motor and element. I'll have to look.

Post# 535776 , Reply# 19   8/8/2011 at 18:39 (4,615 days old) by dishwashercrazy (West Peoria, IL)        

dishwashercrazy's profile picture


Neil:

I parted out a KD-12P, and as a last resort, if you are unable to find a drain valve for your KD-12, you might have luck adapting your gravity drain with this KD-12P valve.

Here is photo 1 of 2.

Mike


Post# 535779 , Reply# 20   8/8/2011 at 18:43 (4,615 days old) by dishwashercrazy (West Peoria, IL)        

dishwashercrazy's profile picture


Photo 2 of 2:

Obviously, it would need to be de-rusted. The bottom of the valve casting is different for the 12P, which has a pipe outlet that fits directly into the top of the water sump. The bottom of the valve casting for the 12 is fitted for a drain pipe connection. But I belive that the sump could be removed, and with some creative plumbing, adapted for gravity drain use.

Mike


Post# 535782 , Reply# 21   8/8/2011 at 18:54 (4,615 days old) by dishwashercrazy (West Peoria, IL)        

dishwashercrazy's profile picture


I also have a fan and heater assembly, which works - I just connected it up and it runs fine.


Post# 535799 , Reply# 22   8/8/2011 at 21:17 (4,615 days old) by swestoyz (Cedar Falls, IA)        
some creative plumbing

swestoyz's profile picture
For years now I've often thought of different ways to eliminate the need for the original style 10-14 series drain valve, as well as the original 10-11 series auxiliary pump, or 12/14 series integrated pump.

Sure, you would not get the reassuring sound of a full-size slide solenoid operating, but you'd still have a functioning dishwasher. Moving forward this will be key to keeping these machines running (on top of finding wash pump seals).

Use a flange from a B&G circulator pump on the outlet side of the tub, convert it to a 90 degree elbow and drop the size down to 5/8, use a drain valve from a 16-17 series machine, then use an auxiliary pump if needed. Unfortunately I got rid of a parts 12 machine before I could test this theory. It all hinges on getting a flange to work with the original tub.

The auxiliary pump could then be activated by the solenoid contact on the timer, as well as the new coil for the drain valve, or some creative TTL programing for those adventurous types who like custom cycles :)

Ben


CLICK HERE TO GO TO swestoyz's LINK


Post# 535800 , Reply# 23   8/8/2011 at 21:21 (4,615 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
Water pump maybe?

Mike, when you parted out your machine, did you save the water pump which was mounted on the motor as well as the pressure(water level) switch? If you did, then the 12 in question can be convered to a pump drain which makes it much more versatile.

Also, if you cannot find any door gaskets for the 10/12/14/ series, you can use the ones from the 15-16-17 series as they are the same just longer and can be trimmed as needed.
As a last resort, you can use the WM series commercial gasket from your Hobart dealer. Part number is 121030-2 and are available for 19.70 and get some new gasket clips, part number 24677 which are 2.00 each and usually came 6 to a bag.

Hope this helps


Post# 535830 , Reply# 24   8/9/2011 at 07:04 (4,615 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
OLD 10-14 KA DWs DRAIN VALVES

combo52's profile picture

As Ben and Mike and others suggested there are many to fix these simple rugged DWs. If you want to gravity drain one of these machines you could use a dump valve from a commercial FL washer. If you want a pump drain installion there are any number of newer style drain pumps that could be adapted. You wouldn't generally need to add a drain valve and a pump . One other thing to keep in mind is that a relay may have to be added as the timer contact for draining only supplies power when the machine is NOT draining. That way the timer will activate the relay coil and the relay will open the contact to the drain valve or drain pump.


Post# 535835 , Reply# 25   8/9/2011 at 07:29 (4,615 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod)        
OMG...The Dreaded Bakelite Trap

toploader55's profile picture
When I rebuilt my KD2-P...If it takes 2 weeks to loosen that trap, be careful. I sprayed WD40 and gently tried to work it loose off the Cast Iron Valve. Be Careful.

Post# 535872 , Reply# 26   8/9/2011 at 10:49 (4,615 days old) by henry200 ()        

So, John, if I understand correctly what you're saying, and after looking at my machine and the pic of the drain assembly that Mike posted, the solenoid is energized to keep the valve closed until drain periods when the spring pulls the valve open?  Then the water drains either by gravity or the presence of water in the drain sump activates a pressure switch to start a drain pump?

 

Using a pump for draining would definitely be more convenient plumbing-wise.  Configuring a gravity drain under the machine in the basement would take a lot more work but it's not impossible.  I suppose I could jury-rig a quick and dirty arrangement and run some tubing the 15 feet or so to empty into the laundry tub! 

 

The first thing I need to do is figure out a way to temporarily seal the outlet so the tub will hold water, then I can check for leaks and try running the machine to see if everything works.


Post# 535888 , Reply# 27   8/9/2011 at 12:45 (4,615 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
Pump ready!

These dishwashers came pump ready and as long as you can get a punp from one of the members it is an easy deal to set up. The bottom of the motor has a removable plate and the motor shaft was designed to accept the shaft from the drain pump. The drain pump was secured to the motor with 2 screws, Then it mated to the trap and when the drain solenoid de-energizes during the drain periods, the pump pumps out the water.

Since the wash pump motor runs continuously the drain pump would also pump out any excess water that went down the overflow hose and emptied in to the trap.
If you somehow manage to jury rig something that gravity drains it into your slop sink in the basement, make sure that you also adapt the overflow to drain there as well as you won't have the pressure switch to shut the water valve off in case the machine overfills.
None of this is impossible to live with, but having the correct original aprts will make it much easier.

If you should manage to locate the correct parts and use the pump drain, make sure that you loop the drain hose up the back of the machine to create a siphon trap.

A look at the parts manual will show you what I am talking about. It was a copper tubing affair that was bolted to the rear of the machine.



Post# 535950 , Reply# 28   8/9/2011 at 15:23 (4,614 days old) by henry200 ()        
First test run

Here's what I did and what I've learned so far.  Using a laundry tub drain stopper I plugged the dishwasher drain then poured in 2 gallons of hot water.  I let that sit for about 30 minutes and then started her up.  I'm working out in the garage and couldn't lay my hands on the bits and pieces I'd need to connect the garden hose to the fill valve.

 

The timer works fine, as does the drain valve solenoid.  

 

The fill valve buzzes during fill phases, definitely more than the little hum I expected.  Can these be worked on or should a new one be on the list of parts to look for?

 

There two spots in the seal between the motor and tub where a few drops of water leaked.  A small bit of water escaped from the bottom corner of the door when it first started up but no leaks during the rest of the cycle.  The biggest leak is at the back around the air duct.  A new gasket there is definitely necessary.

 

The fan and heater work fine.  I'm amazed at how much heat that thing puts out.  The duct at the back gets too hot to touch within seconds!

 

Keep the advice coming.  I appreciate every bit of it!




This post was last edited 08/09/2011 at 20:11
Post# 536030 , Reply# 29   8/9/2011 at 19:29 (4,614 days old) by dishwashercrazy (West Peoria, IL)        

dishwashercrazy's profile picture


Steve,

The KD-12P that I parted out was missing the motor (and pump as you describe), which explains why I can not find the pump in my box of parts. I do have the pressure switch and hose that leads back to the sump.


Neil,

If you decide to go with a conversion and need any of the parts I have mentioned, just let me know.

Mike


Post# 536362 , Reply# 30   8/11/2011 at 09:05 (4,613 days old) by henry200 ()        

Mike, I sent you a message via your aol email from "fonds8"


Post# 536367 , Reply# 31   8/11/2011 at 09:31 (4,613 days old) by henry200 ()        

After leaving water in the tub for 24 hours it appears that the small leak in the gasket between motor and tub has closed up.  The spot where it was leaking is completely dry.  Perhaps the gasket just needed more time to soften up after being dry for a long time?  I'm going to run the machine through another cycle again to be sure.  I'm sure the likelihood of finding a replacement gasket is somewhere between lightening strike and lottery winning.  Has anyone ever "made" a gasket to fit?  Is there such a thing as "blank stock" gasket material from which to cut a new one?  Would re-seating the motor to the tub using a high quality silicone sealant/caulk work or is that inviting disaster?


Post# 536369 , Reply# 32   8/11/2011 at 09:40 (4,613 days old) by Unimatic1140 (Minneapolis)        

unimatic1140's profile picture
Perhaps the gasket just needed more time to soften up after being dry for a long time?

Absolutely, the gasket shrinks over time and hot water makes it expand and seal again. It usually takes 24 hours for the the gasket to repair itself if it is going to (which doesn't always happen).

I never look for new-old-stock gaskets, I always cut new ones from fresh roll-cork or sheet neoprene. New-old-stock cork gaskets dry-out and degrade many times simply by sitting on the shelf. Sometimes even new gaskets wont work if the cut area in the metal has rusted or deformed from moisture, in that case I use Permatex Ultra-blue non-toxic silicone which has never once not stopped a leak.



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