Thread Number: 36532
UNUSED GE Pot scubber Dishwasher |
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Post# 543945 , Reply# 1   9/16/2011 at 14:26 (4,577 days old) by gepotscrubber ()   |   | |
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one more picture |
Post# 543947 , Reply# 2   9/16/2011 at 14:46 (4,577 days old) by peteski50 (New York)   |   | |
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Post# 543951 , Reply# 3   9/16/2011 at 15:05 (4,577 days old) by KenmoreGuy64 (Charlotte, NC)   |   | |
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My Mom had that machine in our new construction house which we built in summer 1977. We LOVED it. We previously had a BOL Hotpoint ultra-POS from 1967-1974/5 until replaced by a KDS-17A. When we moved to Denver, we wanted another KDS but the builder's appliance supplier didn't handle KitchenAid, so they talked us into the GSD-950. It was MUCH MUCH better than the basic GE machines the builder was putting in all the other houses - the model with the timer in the door itself vs. the control panel.
What we liked most about the GE was the forced-air drying I think that coupled with the dry air in Denver never left any water even on the bottoms of glasses. It may have been lesser a machine than the KA in many people's opinions, but we liked it and it led to several other GE dishwashers for my family, including Mom's GSD900 which she used daily from 1987 to 2004. She had a 1983 GSD-900 as well, and I had a GSD-2200 and a GSD-1200. Thanks to John/Combo, I just got a NICE GSD-1200 to replace my GE TT (tall-tub, TT = Totally Terrible). It is getting installed tomorrow! I've got that same brochure leftover from the trip to the appliance store in April, 1977. I would be very interested in this machine! Gordon |
Post# 543953 , Reply# 4   9/16/2011 at 15:14 (4,577 days old) by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)   |   | |
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Post# 543956 , Reply# 5   9/16/2011 at 15:34 (4,577 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Post# 543960 , Reply# 6   9/16/2011 at 15:46 (4,577 days old) by KenmoreGuy64 (Charlotte, NC)   |   | |
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Some did, some didn't, but our GSD-950 most definitely did - you could hear the fan rattling ever so slightly when it was running. It was in the left front corner of the machine. None of the rest of the GEs we had featured this.
One of the things my Mom complained about in our two successive GSD900s was that they didn't have this feature and we expected them to. She would say "Didn't that dishwasher in Denver have a fan in it that ran during drying?" We first thought the 1983 model was faulty because it was quiet during drying. I know ours had a blower in it as well because when I put a couple tablespoons of Palmolive dishwashing liquid in the machine in the 8th grade, to dry it all properly I had to take the lower panel off and dry the floor underneath from the resulting flood. The blower was right there in front of me. MUCH TOO FUNNY an experience looking back, but not at all amusing when you're a 13-year old panicing as to what the folks are going to say when they come home to a dishwasher belching suds. Gordon This post was last edited 09/16/2011 at 16:11 |
Post# 543987 , Reply# 8   9/16/2011 at 19:35 (4,577 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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That was the model that was put in the kitchen in the house that was built next door to our lake house in 1973 or 1974. The laundry room had the matched set of the Gordon coppertone Kenmore washer and the copperton dryer that's elsewhere in the country that Gordon is trying to get. That's the only other dishwasher I ever wanted in our house of all the other neighbors houses around there.
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Post# 543993 , Reply# 9   9/16/2011 at 20:33 (4,577 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))   |   | |
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The one Potscrubber I got timer documentation on showed that with the PS button in, main wash went fill-splash-dispense-splash-pause until thermostat was satisfied (145F)-continue. Lengthened the cycle considerably starting with 120F water like mine. Seldom used it, I tend to brush-rinse before loading.
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Post# 543994 , Reply# 10   9/16/2011 at 20:44 (4,577 days old) by peteski50 (New York)   |   | |
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It is really ashame they didnt continue with this great design. Seems like they could never get away from that tower! For years I have been trying find out why the concept was dropped but nobody seems to have the answer. Even the tower machines used a lot of water. Most of these machines had 7 full water changes.
w r r w r r r dry You cant help but get dishes clean and as far as I am concerned screw the fact it uses all that water. These energy saver gurus should find better things to do in this problem world. Just another Great design gone astray! Peter |
Post# 544000 , Reply# 12   9/16/2011 at 21:13 (4,577 days old) by peteski50 (New York)   |   | |
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Post# 544001 , Reply# 13   9/16/2011 at 21:25 (4,577 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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Here is a use & care guide from this series, but it doesnt' have a cycle sequence chart :0(
CLICK HERE TO GO TO appnut's LINK |
Post# 544007 , Reply# 14   9/16/2011 at 22:00 (4,577 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )   |   | |
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For the energy nuts to explain how 5 or 6 gallons of extra water is less economical than 1 1/2 extra hours of electricity!! |
Post# 544011 , Reply# 15   9/16/2011 at 22:28 (4,577 days old) by MaytagA710 ()   |   | |
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How long did the upper rack have a spray arm for? I damn near had a heart attack when I saw that, I thought GEs always had "power towers"/wash towers. |
Post# 544012 , Reply# 16   9/16/2011 at 23:22 (4,577 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))   |   | |
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Post# 544015 , Reply# 17   9/16/2011 at 23:43 (4,577 days old) by washerlover (The Big Island, Hawai’i)   |   | |
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Looks very much like what we replaced our '66 Hotpoint dishwasher with around 1976. I remember here in California, we were experiencing our first drought, and my Dad was reluctant to replace the old (dead) dishwasher. But I remember when we did, I used to play with the old bakelite Hotpoint washer arms in the bathtub...
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Post# 544095 , Reply# 19   9/17/2011 at 11:40 (4,576 days old) by joe_in_philly (Philadelphia, PA, USA)   |   | |
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Very well said, Paulo.
I have to say my FL washer cleans better, uses less water, energy, and additives, all while being much more gentle on my clothing than my old TL washer. While I like TL washers and enjoy playing with them, I find that well designed new appliances can do a great job while saving resources. I have never used a dishwasher that cleaned better while conserving water and energy than my Bosch. Every time I unload it I am amazed how even baked on pots and pans are spotless, while the glasses are crystal clear and the silverware is bright and shiny. |
Post# 544111 , Reply# 20   9/17/2011 at 12:24 (4,576 days old) by swillis ()   |   | |
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It definately has sparked my attention and I am curious as to how much is the asking price. |
Post# 544210 , Reply# 24   9/17/2011 at 23:32 (4,576 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea))   |   | |
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You REALLY don't want to eat detergent. It all contains benzene compounds, highly toxic. I'm not a washaholic but I AM a rinseaholic.
No way a single rinse is sufficient. Specially when 'drain' leaves at least a cup of the previous fill behind, as all GEs do. The drain solenoid is not positive action. More like a 'suggestion'. It's only held in the drain position by pump output. The instant the pump begins cavitating the drain valve closes, even if the solenoid is still on. Must have saved them at least 75c on the solenoid. Gawd, I hate the trend toward gutless appliances. Know what GE? You could have skipped the reversing motor and timer and paid for a standalone pump that actually pumped the whole time it was on like my BOL Frigiwhite frontloader does. |
Post# 544256 , Reply# 26   9/18/2011 at 09:00 (4,576 days old) by firedome (Binghamton NY & Lake Champlain VT)   |   | |
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Post# 544263 , Reply# 27   9/18/2011 at 09:14 (4,576 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut)   |   | |
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Post# 544269 , Reply# 28   9/18/2011 at 09:35 (4,576 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie)   |   | |
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Well said, Paulo!
My washer (which uses less water than any other US machine on the market), my dishwasher (3.5-5 gallons on regular cycle) and low-flow pressure-flush Gerber toilet all work flawlessly. I have CFL's (spiral compact fluorescent lights) throughout my house. The notion that water-saving/energy-saving appliances produce inferior results is simply not correct. HOWEVER, as with anything you buy, you should check out ratings via Consumer Reports and get opinions from people who already own the item. I buy EcoSmart CFL's and they are awesome. I received a CFL (different brand) from my utility company and it was awful. I agree there are some terrible low-flush toilets out there. Again, check the ratings and purchase one that actually works. |
Post# 544318 , Reply# 29   9/18/2011 at 13:22 (4,575 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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Post# 544407 , Reply# 30   9/18/2011 at 22:49 (4,575 days old) by mrcleanjeans (milwaukee wi)   |   | |
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This model had 6 water changes, w-r-r-w-r-r-dry,each fill used almost 3 gallons of water,hense the high water usage for a dishwasher. It was a great machine! |
Post# 544420 , Reply# 31   9/18/2011 at 23:14 (4,575 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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Post# 544421 , Reply# 32   9/18/2011 at 23:16 (4,575 days old) by mrcleanjeans (milwaukee wi)   |   | |
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Sure Bob! |
Post# 544784 , Reply# 34   9/20/2011 at 20:30 (4,573 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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The tub in these machines were a completely new design and not the same as anything before or later. The pump and motor were mounted differently and there was a large circular sump in the middle of the machine. This was a very interesting machine and it was neat that they finally tried a real upper wash arm [ that all DWs have today ]. The PSII only was made a few years and thier were quite a few problems with this machine. If you read the service manuel for this machine thier a large number of items that are listed that were improved and other service notes that describe how to fix all sorts of problems that occurred |
Post# 544807 , Reply# 35   9/20/2011 at 22:32 (4,573 days old) by peteski50 (New York)   |   | |
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Post# 544834 , Reply# 36   9/21/2011 at 04:59 (4,573 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)   |   | |
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I have to come down on the side of Tom's comments. I do agree with you that design is the most important thing never to skimp on but when it comes down to it there is a physical limit to what you can get out of one gallon of water, it will only carry away so much soil and that is it. I think Tom is correct the low low water usage will not heat the machine nor the soiled dishes so a heat boost must be used. And if you take the total historical perspective, which you must do, in order to be accurate, from the 1940's forward the switch from dishwashing by hand to machine washing has saved millions of gallons of water and millions of tons of coal. So to argue about the efficiency of machines made from as late a 1996 to the squirt gun machines of the early 2000's is artificial, it is splitting hairs. We've done the best we can by 1996, because water has a physical limit. My 1997 KA was the last year of the power module machines, it cleans time and time again as good as my KDS-14. It uses less water than my KDS 14. But when they went to the tall tub design KA blew it big time and they have been scrambling ever since. If you look at CL today you will see many many 2 and 3 year old machines out there for sale because the owners want them gone! And they want to recoup some of their $1000 spent to get these horrible machines.
Yes the idea you need to buy special cleaning agents to keep the "cleaning machines" clean is a blatant ROAD SIGN something has gone really wrong somewhere. The idea you need to start using TEASPOONS to measure your detergent in order to avoid sudslock for a load of clothes that is just as dirty as a 1950's load of clothes is looney at best!
Which tells me this is all due to some government idiot WHO never does dishes nor washes clothes and has to create their job everyday in order to keep it. None of these "government regulations" is based in real science or real experience.
They are all bojack regulations! |
Post# 544886 , Reply# 38   9/21/2011 at 09:14 (4,573 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)   |   | |
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Post# 544888 , Reply# 39   9/21/2011 at 09:19 (4,573 days old) by bwoods ()   |   | |
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You shouldn't post that, Jon. One of legislators in Washington might see it and require that dishwashers use no water to get an Energy Star rating!! |
Post# 544892 , Reply# 40   9/21/2011 at 09:35 (4,573 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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I also think the consumer is partly to blame for the poor state of new dishwashers today. The first thing that every customer asks me when recommending a new DW is, is it quiet. This cupeled with the move to save water and hold larger dishes has pretty much destroyed DWs as we knew then. DWs reached thier perfection by the 1980s-most of the 1990s [ some earlier and some continued longer but the afore mentioned criteria doomed this product from being anywhere nearly as effective as before.
So now we are stuck with machines where we break our backs bending over an extra couple inches to load every last item in the lower rack and have to load every piece of flatware separately because if they touch there isn't enough water force to dislodge a particle stuck between them. We now have machines that don't dry worth a darn and stink inside if you really dare to put lots of really dirty dishes in. To say nothing of all the food bacteria in the messy filters that the average person probably uses 3 gallons of water to wash in the sink. And these newer machines are basically running on cold water if you have a large home where the water heater is far from the DW so you are drawing mostly cold water in as the cycles are so long and then heating it with electricity instead of cheaper and more environmentally friendly gas, heat-pump electric or solar.
These tall tub machines are also difficult if not impossible to install some existing kitchens and even harder to repair. The European machines are even worst to service and install as you basically have to remove the entire machine and lay it on its back to even began working on it because the whole machine is enclosed on the bottom to contain some leaking and noise. Usually by the time the European machines need to be pulled out we just throw them away. |
Post# 544954 , Reply# 43   9/21/2011 at 14:47 (4,572 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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Well Barry, I for one do not have an issue at all with that problem with my Kenmore elite Tall tub (WPKA in disguise). But then again, I have always put my cerea, bowl in the bottom befcause that's where all my GEs allowed them to be placed with that saucer rack as well as my D&N produced Kenmore from 1980. The last time I put cereal bowls in the top rack was the 1968 Waste King because the center section actually excelled at keeping the bowls upright and separated rather than falling all over themslves. Also, I prefer putting them in thje bottom because they eat up valuable real estate in the top rack needed for glasses, mugs, cups, and plasticware. And I don't prerinse anything. I don't even scrape all that we4ll either.
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Post# 545006 , Reply# 45   9/21/2011 at 19:17 (4,572 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Post# 545009 , Reply# 46   9/21/2011 at 19:28 (4,572 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)   |   | |
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Post# 545012 , Reply# 47   9/21/2011 at 19:39 (4,572 days old) by volsboy1 (East Tenn Smoky mountains )   |   | |
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I can't stand these machines today,My G.E. Monogram with that Pure Clean wash system sucks bad.G.E. made the holes very small in the wash arms and there is more of them, but sense it only filters part of the water on it's way to the top wash arms they get stopped up all the time.They also took away the grinder plate at the pump inlet but they left the blade there for some reason.The Machines that are made today just don't last compared to the ones that used more water.So you have a ton more machines going to the landfill.Dishwasher's used to last for 13 or more years, Now days if I get 4 years out of it I will be shocked.I have gotten chewed out by people cause I love these old water hogs and hurricanes in a box.They mistake me for somebody who cares what they think but it seems like a on going thing,"How could you use a machine like that when my Asko cleans wonderful on a cup of water,I guess we are more cosmo here about things like that". I have had several comments like that but I don't care I like them cause they work like hell and I love the roar of water blasting things clean in 50 mins. What is worse dishwasher's going to the landfill every 5 years or one that last over twice that but uses more water? My question is where does the water go its not like gasoline is it??? P.S. I love that G.E. I have never seen one like that I am going to find me one now.:))
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Post# 545021 , Reply# 48   9/21/2011 at 20:09 (4,572 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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I can load an oatmeal (with raspberry jam mixed in) bowl like this one into my dishwasher ... and have it come out like this (it was still warm when the clean pic was taken) ... I don't know if that's considered reasonable performance ... perhaps someone can tell me. The bowl in this case was washed within a couple hrs of the boilover occurring, but I routinely leave them sitting for a couple/three days and come clean with no trouble. |
Post# 545025 , Reply# 49   9/21/2011 at 20:23 (4,572 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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Barry, minie can actually sit for 5-7 days before the machine is ever tuirned on in the wintertime. Glenn, I really cannot tell you on that. And Wes, Greg had no complaints when he had his Asko and he routinely pushed it to the max with the different kind of loads he put in there.
It's unfortunate we've been saddled with this government standards that just simiply don't deal witgh reality very well. That being said, we're also saddled with our electrical voltange vs. our european counterparts. The Europeans have led ahead f us for YEARS when it comes to efficiency. But their electrical support allows relatively quick heating of water. Greg very rarely had any debris in the filter of his Asko, including lasagna noodles thrown at eat, meat from said dish, and many other thihngs. The solution was that the cycle he used heated the water to 160 and 170 degrees practically emulsifiing just about anything. Whereas, our new machines that have saddled us with filters, "high-temp" wash water is now considered 120 to 130 degrees. A sanitize rinse option is still 155 degrees. But that's still no comparison to European designs. I'm sure I haven't made the most clear and cobncise argument here, but I think y'all get the gist of my intentions. |
Post# 545054 , Reply# 52   9/22/2011 at 00:47 (4,572 days old) by volsboy1 (East Tenn Smoky mountains )   |   | |
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Yes there the same exact dishwasher for the most part.Mine has lights in it and is very quite something like 48 D.b.There is one Model and I did not see this one or I missed it that is made by Gaggenau I think.I was wondering about that Potscrubber 2 and all these other old G.E. dishwasher's from the late 70s and early 80s..The pump design is not much different than the one in mine is there?I know the motor in mine is more efficient 1.8 Amps compared to 5 Amps.I thought that motor in the older ones was a shaded pole type.I have always wondered why my friends Magic chef G.E. made it sounds like a wall of water hits that door and smashes plates turns things over.There is that big metal arm with the huge holes and a tower,plus a overhead arm.Was that old motor more powerful or is it something else?
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Post# 545198 , Reply# 53   9/22/2011 at 18:49 (4,571 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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What I wanna know is this--why is it our dishwasher manufacturers have saddled us with lower wash water temps with these new HE wash systems (with filters) that have a normal wash temp of 105-115 degrees and high-temp is now 120 degrees and final rinse temp is 130, unless sani-rinse his selecteed. AND european models offered here are still able to offer cycles with much higher temperatures and still remain Energy Star Qualified?
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Post# 545199 , Reply# 54   9/22/2011 at 18:57 (4,571 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Post# 545200 , Reply# 55   9/22/2011 at 19:04 (4,571 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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Post# 545413 , Reply# 56   9/23/2011 at 14:44 (4,570 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)   |   | |
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Hi John, I've completed your Sauce bottle Test in a Miele, please see the results below. No Specks or Yibblets to be found Cheers Nathan |
Post# 545505 , Reply# 59   9/23/2011 at 21:29 (4,570 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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Steve, remember that european households have normal current that we would consider to be 220/240 volt and that gives them the ability to heat water from cold much faster than our anemic 120 volt power in homes in the U.S. I think European brands are designed to heat to a particular temperature set point and won't "time out" as would a comparable American brand.
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Post# 545507 , Reply# 60   9/23/2011 at 21:34 (4,570 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)   |   | |
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Post# 545534 , Reply# 61   9/23/2011 at 23:12 (4,570 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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Post# 545930 , Reply# 62   9/26/2011 at 15:01 (4,567 days old) by joe_in_philly (Philadelphia, PA, USA)   |   | |
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My dishwasher is hard wired - I thought that was the norm for the USA, but perhaps not.
Even though my dishwasher is connected to wimpy 120 US current, it heats the water pretty fast. It heats the water, machine, and dishes about 2 degrees a minute. I have measured a full load starting at 100F just before the heater starts, it is up to 140F in 20 minutes. I believe the heater is 1200 watts. |
Post# 545942 , Reply# 63   9/26/2011 at 17:23 (4,567 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)   |   | |
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Any chance of reposting the results or perhaps a link we plebians can access? And Joe in Philly, what make and model machine do you have? Sounds pretty near to a vintage KA machine! |
Post# 546403 , Reply# 64   9/28/2011 at 22:26 (4,565 days old) by joe_in_philly (Philadelphia, PA, USA)   |   | |
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Post# 546483 , Reply# 65   9/29/2011 at 18:42 (4,564 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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SteveT, the original thread in which I cited figures should be in the archives, probably a couple years back. Search for my username and dishdrawer and kwh usage. I ran a load this afternoon and checked the figures afresh. I did not turn the household water heater off as on the previous tests. Relevant factors are: - The current setpoint is 102°F. - The DD takes 0.8 gals per fill. - At least one fill is required to purge the line ... probably more like 1.5 gals to reach ~100°F. - Being that it's a tankless water heater, there's a bit of the "cold sandwich" factor comes into play between fills. Per a tap-check a half-hour or so after the cycle finished, I'd estimate the fills were average 85°F, maybe approaching 90°F. Weather is still hot here and there's some solar heating via the attic plumbing. Setting the water heater down to 50°F would have had a negligible effect on the results. So ... the numbers. Normal cycle. 1 hr 55 mins (115 mins) default/estimated. Cycle time is extended as required to reach the target temps. I did not check the time exactly so can't say what was the final run-time but it typically is not much over the estimate. Even winter-cold fills don't extend the time by an agonizing amount, unless maybe I just don't notice. 5 water changes. W - R - W - R - R - D 140°F main wash. 150°F final rinse. 0.54 KWH power used. Including water heating. Like five 100-watt light bulbs and a 40-watter on for an hour. Reasonable? Excessive? |
Post# 546489 , Reply# 66   9/29/2011 at 19:28 (4,564 days old) by Toggleswitch (New York City, NY)   |   | |
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Post# 546632 , Reply# 67   9/30/2011 at 13:06 (4,563 days old) by wireman (Lansing, MI)   |   | |
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VERY interesting thread! We replaced out old dishwasher about 6yrs. ago with a Bosch designed Kenmore Elite tall tub. Once Greg heard how quiet it was ( we have a 50's cape cod brick house, and you could hear the old 70's model running everywhere in the house!) he wouldn't settle for anything less! We almost always run the pots and pans cycle as it is shorter, though still pretty long at 112 min. I like the idea of that shorter cycle and hotter water. Everything almost always comes out clean! Even oatmeal on the upper racks. It dries pretty well, too, esp. if opened up soon after the drying cycle ends and the dishes are still hot. I think we lucked into one of the better modern designs. I clean the screens when I am home and remember to, but rarely find much. Hearing your horror stories makes me hope it'll last for awhile!
Only one issue with it is a rusted through spot on the upper rack. Any ideas for a repair? The stainless tub still looks great. I'll have to explore when back home many washes/rinses it does. My dad, however, has a less expensive Kenmore with the soil "sensor" also about 5-6yrs old. That damn thing can run for 3 NOISY hrs on almost any cycle but the "quick" one, and that is still about an hour! I suspect that sediment from his well water may be tricking the sensor into thinking there is still grime in the water. Doesn't dry the dishes worth a crap either... It was NOT a cheap machine, think it was well over $400 on sale. Like many older folks, he REALLY rinses everything, and has taken to running the short cycle. On the vintage front, our "gay grandpa" lived in a Chicago high-rise with a Kitchen Aid DW; I believe a Suberba from somewhere in the 70's. The building was a Mies van der Rohe design from the mid-60's, but doubt the dishwasher was that old. Think it did have some buttons and a dial. I loaded and emptied it many times and everything always came clean! That thing soldiered on forever and was reasonably quiet. Cannot recall what it was replaced with, but recall him saying it was NOT up to the performance of his KA! Again, it DOES come down to good design. I have MANY issues with the poor design of many current American products. EVERYTHING is about marketing hype these days, NOT real performance. |
Post# 546667 , Reply# 68   9/30/2011 at 16:22 (4,563 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Post# 546677 , Reply# 69   9/30/2011 at 17:57 (4,563 days old) by yogitunes (New Jersey)   |   | |
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John.....what a great test.....I'm gonna do that one, dried as mentioned.......
I have a Convertible Kenmore UltraWash from 1988.....I got it with the stipulation, bake a cake and frost it, place the whole cake and plate in the dishwasher on the Normal cycle, if anything was left the dishwasher was FREE! You KNOW how many damn cakes I baked and stuck in there? ? ?....too freakin many, and all washed away!...dammit! but in hindsite....who wants a FREE dishwasher if it won't clean dishes?.....just a gimmick....but nice to know I could!....LOL |
Post# 546900 , Reply# 70   10/2/2011 at 11:33 (4,561 days old) by wireman (Lansing, MI)   |   | |
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John,
Our Kenmore Elite is a Bosch design with stainless tub. It is a tall one, but is about 3" shallower than the domestic designs (we learned this is to make it flush with European cabinets). The control panel has the same settings as the Bosch, but has small circular buttons rather than the large, familiar "rocker" switches of the Bosch. Really has been a good performer, with almost daily use. I don't hesitate to stack things over one another, esp. on the lower rack. Perhaps it would be wisest just to replace the upper rack(it is adjustable, a WONDERFUL thing!)rather than attempt some kind of patch to the rusty spot. NOT getting any rust spots on dishes... Duane |
Post# 549458 , Reply# 71   10/15/2011 at 06:32 (4,549 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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Cross-posted from Deluxe, being that heating time is of relevance to this thread. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - I ran a load this afternoon and monitored the cycle. The Kill-a-Watt meter is still connected, but I didn't check it before starting so I can't say how much power was used. This info is only in regards to time. I cranked the water heater down to 50°F so the fills were tap-cold. Kitchen faucet temp read about 82°F. Normal Eco cycle. 88 mins initial time. Wash (or prerinse), Wash 125°F, Rinse, Rinse 125°F, Dry. 88 Mins = Start 81 Mins = first drain. That makes the prewash 7 mins (no delay for heating). 78 mins = start of main wash fill 46 mins = main wash drain. That makes the main wash approx 32 mins. In my previous instances of monitoring the temp in the tub, the heated cycle phase ends within a couple mins of the target temp being reached. I assume there's a minimum time involved in case of a really HOT fill, but don't know what is it. 43 mins = first rinse fill. 39 mins = first rinse drain. 36 = final rinse fill 25 = final rinse drain. That makes the final rinse approx 11 mins, including water heating ... which was apparently aided by residual heat from the wash, even with a cold-fill rinse preceding. Still, 11 mins is much less than I'd expect. Remaining time is drying. Timing the cycle separately via the minute timer on my microwave, the full cycle was extended by only 3 minutes. At 25 mins remaining time on the dishwasher display, the microwave had 22 mins left. The dishwasher had 3 mins dry time left when the minute timer ended. |
Post# 869419 , Reply# 72   2/27/2016 at 13:59 (2,952 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Post# 869469 , Reply# 73   2/27/2016 at 18:25 (2,952 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)   |   | |
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It's filthy, also around the door gasket. |
Post# 870006 , Reply# 74   3/1/2016 at 17:20 (2,949 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)   |   | |
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just came across this thread....An UNUSED 1978 GE Dishwasher? I mean, how freaking RARE is that? I wonder how something like this would FARE over the years of just sitting? Sure, it has never been operated, but since it's almost 40 freaking years old, I wonder how it would sound when running or have any problems with seals or things like that.....I just LOVE the look of it. I do like some of the modern dishwashers, but I really really wish they still made dishwashers like they did in the 80s/90s...
One thing I've never understood about energystar and being green and saving the planet is the fact that a lot of these new appliances end up in a landfill in 5 years. I've been lucky with my modern appliances so far......2004 range, fridge, microwave all still working.....but the dishwasher died at 9.2 yrs. |
Post# 870099 , Reply# 75   3/2/2016 at 08:39 (2,949 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)   |   | |
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I have to agree - there's no way in hell anyone can convince me that building major appliances to last for 3-5 years is good for the environment. Or the pocketbook. Except for microwave ovens, I can't think of a single, solitary kitchen appliance which works better today than the really good appliances of the 1960's to mid-70s. Not one. As to dishwashers - why would I want something which requires me to pre-rinse my dishes and can't even self-clean? We spent more restoring our Twenty-Eight Hundred than a 'good' modern dishwasher costs. We'll get another thirty years out of the GSD 2800 without major work. That's at least five if not six of the bacteria, slime mold and garbage spreading current trash on the market. |
Post# 870107 , Reply# 76   3/2/2016 at 09:52 (2,948 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)   |   | |
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I also agree. It is not good for the environment, but is keeping Mexico and China employed. American factories just assemble the cheesy parts. |
Post# 870113 , Reply# 77   3/2/2016 at 10:42 (2,948 days old) by johnb300m (Chicago)   |   | |
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WOW!
I've never seen a GE machine like that before! Fascinating! Why on earth did they ever abandon the middle wash arm like that??? The towers were pretty good, but I have no idea why they didn't at least offer both for all these decades. At least not until their Triton line. And I just don't know what to say about all the whining about new energy efficient machines. There's a lot of ignorance in this arena, both unintentional and chosen. There's A LOT of truth behind EU vs US and our electrical ratings. There's also a lot to say about EU machines heating their water with actual flow-through heaters which are more efficient. US machines mainly rely on heating water in a random fashion with an exposed coil, compounded by lower voltage. So of course our US machines won't be good at heating water. Also, importantly, EU nations have very hard water and so all their dishwashers have built in water softeners. Soft water, I've learned the hard way (giggity!) is a HUGE performance variable. If you're saddled with hard water, the best of the best dishwashers won't do squat. Many many US locations also have hard to very hard water, yet we're not accustomed to always softening our water, NOR do ANY of our appliances have built in water softening characteristics. So we're screwed right off the bat. With that said, I hope there are plenty of posts by now in the Blue section to disprove a lot of these myths. We now have plenty of discussion, testing and video evidence to show that modern machines are not nearly as horrible as people think. Sure, they were pretty bad in mid-2000's, but I think a lot of the kinks have been worked out. Not to mention, the relatively speaking, torrent of water that a certain Whirlpool is able to throw around with what looks like a pond pump. Albeit with separate rack washing. I too am not thrilled with the demise of hard food disposers. But it IS partly consumers' faults. Disposers require larger pumps and power, which are louder. And people when they're standing in Menard's with a pimple-faced sales dude, will look, and only really look at price, and db levels of the machines. When the price and db levels align to the lowest amounts, that's usually what people will pick. And they'll only complain about wash-ability later. Yet further complain if the machine is "too loud" despite it washing well. It's a no-win. Pertaining to energy. It's incredibly counter-intuitive, especially in our society where basic science knowledge is panned and ridiculed. But when you split the wash action between racks, reduce the water fill, and further reduce the water flow paths and jets, you can create still a forceful spray with a small efficient DC magnetic pump with a higher RPM to build up your pressure force. These little motors can often run twice as long or more and still use the same or often LESS electricity than their older induction motor ancestors. YES, I have sporadic washability issues in my modern GE Profile machine, mainly on the top rack. But the bottom rack has been flawless since inception. I've NEVER dealt with a machine, vintage or modern, that's actually performed 100% flawless, 100% of the time. Maybe I'm just unlucky. But as it was mentioned up-thread, it really comes down to design. There's verifiable evidence that Whirlpool has simply better designed certain aspects of their machine, over my GE, such as better top rack coverage, and filter soil management. They're both great machines in my opinion though. With all those combined, these modern machines really do use less resources, even combined with the odd reject, or some brief filter rinsing. And I'm thankful for that. The only caveat I see today is time, with longer cycles. And that too, just simply isn't an issue unless you need to do back to back dishwashing, which really is only an issue upon heavy holiday time. Just my 5 cents. (Inflation sucks) |
Post# 870142 , Reply# 78   3/2/2016 at 17:53 (2,948 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)   |   | |
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I miss my three-phase power in Munich. I miss plain old 230V power. It's not that big of a deal, though, for a washing machine. Any of our Potscrubbers can raise the temp about 1.5-1.8 degrees/minute/F. Our inlet water is 145F, so by the time the potscrubber cycle is over, they've either limited water to 165F or it's gone up to about 170F, dependent upon unit. (The GSD 2800, of course, cuts the heat at the appropriate point for each chosen cycle. If these 40 year old machines can manage that with 900 Watts, then there' simply no excuse for the trash being sold to Americans today. It's worse than worthless, it's just a breeding ground for illness causing microbes.
As to the Potscrubber II, anyone who wants a laugh should read the GE Service Bulletin on it here in the archives. Ye gods and little fishies, no wonder they abandoned it and it's middle washarm. By the time they had the problems worked out (and they did, in the end), their reputation was shot. |
Post# 870148 , Reply# 79   3/2/2016 at 18:39 (2,948 days old) by delaneymeegan (Midwest)   |   | |
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Post# 870149 , Reply# 80   3/2/2016 at 18:45 (2,948 days old) by delaneymeegan (Midwest)   |   | |
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The original poster of this thread, may have had the date wrong. The mol dw looks more like 1977, than 1978.
Here is the TOL from 1977. Notice how the vent is in the middle on both this ad, and the dw shown at the beginning. The 1978, featuring the new GE TUFF tub that was with us for many years, has the vent in the upper left corner of the door.
Also, the console on the 1977 was real chrome metal that had removable ends, whereas the 1978 is a one piece plastic escutcheon covered in a chrome finish.
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Post# 870150 , Reply# 81   3/2/2016 at 18:49 (2,948 days old) by delaneymeegan (Midwest)   |   | |
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Post# 870152 , Reply# 82   3/2/2016 at 18:57 (2,948 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Plumbed in Flow-Through style waters are not one bit more efficient in heating water or in cost of operation than an exposed coil in the bottom of a US style DW, if there is any difference the coil in the bottom of a DW would be more efficient because ALL the heat is IN the DW with the dishes and water with no radiant loss from the tube style heater under the DW, but in either case we would be splitting hairs as there is truly no difference. |
Post# 870181 , Reply# 84   3/2/2016 at 20:01 (2,948 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Post# 870200 , Reply# 85   3/2/2016 at 21:49 (2,948 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)   |   | |
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As to why the decisions were made to cut those phosphates which don't cause eutrophication. Why the decision was made to remove chlorine bleach (which rapidly becomes harmless salt). Why the decision was made to lower temperatures to the exact right level to breed microbes while cleaning nothing. Why the decision was made to 'save' so much water that one must now pre-rinse with gallons and gallons (and pre-wash, often as not). Why food-choppers (they're not really disposals) were removed in nearly all systems. Was any thought given to this or was it just a case of idiot politicians plus clueless corporations? And, I do mean clueless - look at the rinse-aide, control board and heating-coil fires of the last few years and compare them to all the fires of the fifty odd years previously. Not to mention the Whirlaide motors with their designed-to-fail seals. |
Post# 870207 , Reply# 86   3/2/2016 at 22:56 (2,948 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Post# 872064 , Reply# 87   3/12/2016 at 13:09 (2,938 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Post# 872104 , Reply# 88   3/12/2016 at 16:43 (2,938 days old) by Johnb300m (Chicago)   |   | |
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1. Uhhh, phosphates are a leading cause of algal blooms in lakes, rivers and streams, which are a detriment to the environment.
2. Some detergents still use chlorine bleach. Others use oxygen bleaches. 3. 120 degrees is more than efficient to clean a normal load of dishes with good detergent and a good wash/spray system. If you don't want bacteria (which is such a low risk it's almost humorous) then use your Sanitize cycle/option. 4. Eco water saving machines took a few years to work out the kinks, but if you look in the Blue section of the forum, there's mounting evidence of new dishwashers using mere 2-6gal of water per cycle, with NO pre-rinsing, and coming out perfectly clean. If you choose to disregard actual user experiences.....then nobody can help you. 5. Food choppers were removed in the hunt for more efficient, smaller motors in order to use less water and energy. I'm a food chopper fan, but with a new filter dishwasher, I've not missed it at all. Millions of chopper-free dishwashers run in Europe every day, and make perfectly clean dishes. It's just not a feature that enough consumers demand anymore. 6. I think your impression of modern, Energy Saving appliances is grossly overstated. Are you even paying attention to the looming global water crisis of dwindling fresh ground/lakewater and encroaching saltwater? If my appliances can save me money on my utility bills and use less coal and less water and still perform to my satisfaction, awesome. If you can't find ANYTHING out there that meets your satisfaction, then I'm sorry. Market forces with nudges from government agency have produced the market we have today. And consumers seem to be generally OK with it. If they were not? You'd see more revolts in purchasing pressures and complaints to BBB and Federal Trade Commission on fraudulent goods in the market. In summary: Whaaaaaaahhhhhhhh :'( |
Post# 872128 , Reply# 89   3/12/2016 at 17:09 (2,938 days old) by joeypete (Concord, NH)   |   | |
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lol. OMG. You're killing me. Sassy pants :-P
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Post# 872174 , Reply# 91   3/12/2016 at 22:15 (2,938 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)   |   | |
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1. Uhhh, phosphates are a leading cause of algal blooms in lakes, rivers and streams, which are a detriment to the environment. Good to know, thank you. I have not seen that to be true. Then again, I don't prewash and I do expect spotless performance, including on oatmeal and baked on eggs/starch. As to the bacteria and mold, 120F isn't enough, not by a long shot. My last European dishwasher (I'm German) was a 2014 TOL Miele. It did, indeed, clean well. Took four hours, nearly. Unacceptable. Still needed the 75C program to really clean naked on food. Yeah, I spent nearly my entire adult life cleaning those damn filters. Unacceptable. Consumer water use is nothing compared to the damage done by fracking. It's politically correct, but just plain irrelevant. I want my dishes clean, my machine reasonably sanitary and I refuse to waste my time and hot water pre-rinsing.
My questions are not whinging, they're relevant. |
Post# 872219 , Reply# 93   3/13/2016 at 06:23 (2,938 days old) by joeypete (Concord, NH)   |   | |
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I have to agree on phosphates from detergent usage. Now that they are not used at all (or in minimal trace amounts) in the US, I really don't feel guilty using STPP in my laundry or dishwasher use. The percentage of people using phosphates as an additive is extremely small. Hell, my good friend is very environmentally conscious and she didn't even know anything about STPP. So I'm not worried.
I'm all for conserving energy and saving water if needed. But in my opinion, it depends on where you are. Here in the northeast we do not have a water shortage, and rarely do. So I don't feel guilty either about using older appliances that use more water...especially when I don't pay for my water usage. It's just not an issue for me. Reducing hot water usage is strictly a money thing. I mean if people are willing to pay more, why not let them use as much hot water as they want? But I do know that modern appliances that restrict hot water usage still clean exceptionally well. I'm not wearing a blindfold when it comes to reality. So I can see both sides of the spectrum. Of course, me Mr. Moderate. LOL |
Post# 872250 , Reply# 94   3/13/2016 at 10:08 (2,937 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)   |   | |
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You're right. There's also the not so minor fact that modern water treatment facilities recover organically accessible phosphate compounds. I find it a bit ironic that those arguing I should abandon vintage appliances, hot water and real detergents for 'modern' appliances would use water treatment technology from the mid-20th century as the basis for their argument in the 21st. We had guests this summer who are the personification of pre-scrubbing and rinsing every single dish which goes into the dishwasher. They used up nearly 90 gallons of hot water 'saving' the 'environment' from my evil, twisted GSD Twenty Eight Hundred and it's horrid, wasteful ways. I'm not opposed to genuine advances in technology, as a discussion here over 10 years ago thoroughly explored. Just no patience with faux-science and plastic-fantastic trash sold to clean which has to be cleaned itself, it's so anemic. |
Post# 872259 , Reply# 95   3/13/2016 at 11:27 (2,937 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Post# 872283 , Reply# 96   3/13/2016 at 13:57 (2,937 days old) by logixx (Germany)   |   | |
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Did you have your Miele checked? I did look at the manual of the latest (and thus most efficient) model and the Intensive cycle is 2:40 hrs. - not almost four hours. I wonder if something ws wrong with yours.
I can attest that the 45°C Eco Intensive cycle of my Siemens cleans even baked on baking dishes / BobLoads just fine in 2:20 hrs. with Aldi powdered detergent. However, I must admit that I basically use the auto cycle with speed mode all the time, as I run the dishwasher after dinner late in the evening and still want to unload it before going to bed. Cycle time then is identical to, say, Whirlpool Power Clean machines. I love the idea of food choppers... but the inlet to them on most machines seems too small to let pieces of meat, lettuce leaves, beans etc. pass the through and then you're still "stuck" with having to scrape dishes. |
Post# 872382 , Reply# 97   3/13/2016 at 21:44 (2,937 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)   |   | |
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Interestingly enough, I've never encountered a stuck drain hose in a dishwasher with a chopper blade. Must have happened, no doubt, but I've not seen it.
And, I don't pre-rinse at all. Ever. Yes, my last Miele took forever. I do think part of it was the way it had been reduced to 10Amp service. Big difference to my beloved 3-phase (which I would have never given up, the idiot movers dropped it down the stairs and THROUGH the glass doors right out onto Klenzestr., where it was promptly hit by a passing truck. Sigh. Anyway, I do think it was something like 3.47 hours at it's very worst. Still miss the chocolate and butter and bread and coffee. |
Post# 873598 , Reply# 98   3/21/2016 at 03:03 (2,930 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Post# 873609 , Reply# 100   3/21/2016 at 07:41 (2,930 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)   |   | |
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Four and one-half hours! Nathan, that's quite something. I guess some detail is in order. I'd sold my condo, was on my way to the US and we hit a bureaucratic snag. The brand new Miele is in a flat belonging to a dear friend in Munich. She's very much an environmentalist and noise sensitive. This generation of Mieles repeats the last program unless you change it, so I'm guessing she had every eco-option and extraleise running. I was only there for a month, had neither time nor interest in playing with it. Unless they're three-phase, German dishwashers were generally derated down to 10 amps after reunification. Munich runs pretty steady at 230V so I doubt it's the heating, despite the cold water and low power heating. Just the way it was programmed.
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Post# 873817 , Reply# 101   3/22/2016 at 07:52 (2,929 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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I downloaded the Service manual for this machine (Thanks Robert!!!!! :D ) and a normal cycle appears to be 40 minutes with a 21 minute dry and 71 minutes on the pot-scrubber cycle. It seems the next engineering revision, GSD950-02 changes the dry time to 31 minutes and the manual even mentions 9 minutes were added due to short drying.
Over all I am really impressed with potscrubber II machines. Had GE added a filter I think this could easily have been a major hit across us homes. |
Post# 873825 , Reply# 102   3/22/2016 at 09:01 (2,929 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)   |   | |
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The service manual on these is hilarious to read. GE flat out admits that they were rolled out too early and the details on all the flaws and how they were fixed/minimized is beyond words funny. And that's what killed them - by the time GE had them fixed, people had had it with their awful performance, horrible service record and the really bad customer service GE in far too many places had on offer at the time. Same stupid mentality as Microshrott with their intentionally too small teams and too tight deadlines.
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Post# 873827 , Reply# 103   3/22/2016 at 10:17 (2,928 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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I agree, I got a kick out of reading it lol. Apparently sump boots had been coming off. Word of that spreading would be the ultimate black eye. And the others like no click lock on the push buttons and condensation on critical components are certainly rushed engineering. Changing a timer is a pain as well to gain 9 minutes of dry time or lockable push-buttons. Half the machine needs to be rewired.
I think what ultimately failed GE was starting from the top down rather then from the bottom up. Incorporating a first generation perma tuff design to a BOL would have been far easier then attempting a never before designed or tested wash system with a complex rapid advance timer. Not only did that ruin the honeymoon, but it kept mediocre plastisol tub machines on the market for another 9 years. GE's top priority should have been those since they were bringing down reputation one rust spot at a time. |
Post# 874517 , Reply# 104   3/26/2016 at 15:39 (2,924 days old) by volsboy1 (East Tenn Smoky mountains )   |   | |
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Sorry,I don't agree with the water uses and pump designs..The Old K-Aids that have the big motor will last for 20 years or more but now we have been replacing these new ones every 3 to 4 years..So how does that save anything in the long run?The only people that win are the companies that sell them. The only new dishwasher brand that I trust is Miele .My 1984 Superba just now quit and died after 32 years that is not bad at all and you will not find a new one that will last that long. All these eco wing nuts can build them a out house and just quit bathing and cut there power off but, then nobody would want to be near them because they smell like shit and they would have no purpose in life so hey it would be a win win for us..
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Post# 874542 , Reply# 105   3/26/2016 at 20:04 (2,924 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Post# 874584 , Reply# 106   3/27/2016 at 09:08 (2,924 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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In families of at least 4 persons and being run at least once a day. These numbers are based on mine and several other technicians that I worked closely with during the 70s and through today.
GE Plastisol drop door DWs 62-66 4-10 years, these usually either rusted out or the motor relay stuck and took out the motor.
GE Plastisol DD DWs 67-81 5-10 years, usually were replaced because of rust through of the door or tank in the sump area, other trouble spots were timers and motors and pump.
Westinghouse DD DWs from 65-70 4-8 years, problem areas were main pump seal and ruined motors, leaks many places, bad door seals and broken door latches.
WH 71-74 4-6 years severe pump problems that often took the motor with it, plus it was such a piss poor DW that most people could not wait to replace it.
D&M DWs 1964-84 5-10 years, pump problems, bad motors, leaks around door and vent plate, the problems with these poor quality DWs going into the 70s kept getting worse, almost ever part of D&M DWs was substandard right down to the cheap rubber drain hoses that would split if you looked at it wrong, LOL.
WP DWs 1964-72 6-8 years, problem areas main pump, detergent dispensers.
WP DWs 73-84 8-14 years WP DWs got a lot better through the 70s and into the 80s, they made a huge improvement in pump durability when they started selling DWs to Sears in 1985 in all their DWs.
KA DWs 1964-75 these include KD 15 through 17 series DWs 10-20 years, KAs were in a class by them selves, and while they were not the most trouble free DW they were easy to fix and usually worth fixing partly because of the good performance and the high cost of the DW itself.
KA KD-18s through KD21s 10-16 years, as KAs became more complex and cycles got longer their longevity got shorter.
Most frequent reason for replacement of KAs were bad main motors and generally poor overall condition [ rusted racks etc ].
Dishwashers are historically the most replaced major appliance, the same seems true today. About the only major appliance that we are replacing more often today are Over-The-Range MWOs which I strongly advise against having. These are all averages , many many DWs can and did last much longer, just like many many of today's appliances WILL be going strong in 25-35 years from now.
We replace a lot of DWs today, but overall they average around 15 years of age when scraped, 75% could be repaired but because of high repair cost most people chose a new DW as the real price of a DW is much less than it was in the 60s-70s.
John L.
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Post# 874586 , Reply# 107   3/27/2016 at 09:30 (2,924 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)   |   | |
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That was fascinating, thank you! Over the range microwave ovens seem only one step above BIC pens in longevity. We picked up a stainless steel GE spacemaker II (Japanese) for $5.00 in perfect physical condition. It had 'stopped working' the first day it had been installed because the in-duh-vi-duals had boiled a big pot of water for spaghetti right under it. Imagine that, heat and steam and condensing water being bad for exposed electronics!
Replaced a few components, put it under a counter above the trash compactor and it's been happy (slow, but happy, they're all slow) for many years now.
If I had to put a microwave above a stove, I'd go for a purely mechanical timer and the simplest LC circuit to drive the magnetron I could find. With a second fan to divert moisture/grease laden air away from the LCcircuit (transformer, diode, capacitor, tube). After all, lots of 1970s low-high ranges with microwaves on top are still nuking popcorn.
Why do you suppose consumers put up with such poor quality back then? We obviously don't, look how often you get asked arcane questions about how to improve a GE this, that or the other... |
Post# 874587 , Reply# 108   3/27/2016 at 09:32 (2,924 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Post# 874588 , Reply# 109   3/27/2016 at 09:48 (2,923 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)   |   | |
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Dishwashers in the last two years and there's a real improvement in quality between the '74 and the '84 and then a really quick slide into just good enough after that. YMMV, but much as I dislike Whirlpool in general, GE really went to the dogs during the Welch era. Sort of like GM in the first decade of the 2000s - all the gains they'd made in the '90s were wiped out completely. |
Post# 874608 , Reply# 110   3/27/2016 at 14:23 (2,923 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Post# 874637 , Reply# 111   3/27/2016 at 19:50 (2,923 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)   |   | |
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GE dishwashers had unmistakeable sounds that meant business to me. Everything from the pump motor, to the swashing of the spray arms. I also like how the motor does a vibrating roar when it tries to pick up water force. |
Post# 874698 , Reply# 112   3/28/2016 at 10:35 (2,922 days old) by Johnb300m (Chicago)   |   | |
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LOL!
Many others would say (like me) all those shaded pole motor vibrations and roars were consequences of cheapness and poor dampening. GE also HAD to have large water consumption and large jets because they refused to design any filter systems for their dishwashers. Like John's fantastic market insight, my family members have had great dishwasher luck over the years with various brands. The KAs always lasted the longest. Only one KA was taken out by the high iron content of my aunts' well water and the stainless tub rusted. Our GEs have all lasted 12-18yrs except for the BOL GE that came with our house, that lasted 7. The WPs lasted just as long. One "tall tub" Maytag I know of, lasted the least possibly of user neglect. I know the modern machines are heavily scorned in this community, and sometimes rightly so. But if you get a good one with good electronics, there's no reason those won't last the average 7-12 years. Just like the seemingly hallowed machines of the 70s. |
Post# 874712 , Reply# 113   3/28/2016 at 12:50 (2,922 days old) by jeffb (Lexington, KY)   |   | |
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Not quite a '78 but...my parents bought their current house new in '85 and they've never used the dishwasher. I'm pretty sure it's a GE, next time I'm there I'll take a pic. |
Post# 874750 , Reply# 114   3/28/2016 at 21:31 (2,922 days old) by miele_ge (Danbury, Connecticut)   |   | |
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Post# 874754 , Reply# 115   3/28/2016 at 22:18 (2,922 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)   |   | |
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Why have one if you don't use it? If I were them, I'd use it to my advantage. I'd take a loud noisy roaring GE dishwasher, or any brand of dishwasher for that matter over washing dishes by hand. I'm not gonna complain. |
Post# 874837 , Reply# 116   3/29/2016 at 14:10 (2,921 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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Post# 874868 , Reply# 117   3/29/2016 at 17:25 (2,921 days old) by Johnb300m (Chicago)   |   | |
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Post# 874870 , Reply# 119   3/29/2016 at 17:43 (2,921 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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I recall 40-ish years ago when relatives were visiting for Thanksgiving or Christmas or some such holiday after we'd gotten the KDI-17a. We loaded it up after the meal, packed to the brim as typical, and used the Soak cycle. My mother's aunt sat watching it warily, and remarked "I guess it has to fill" when it stopped spraying for the soak period ... I suppose envisioning that the tub filled like a washing machine and the dishes then whirled and sloshed around. |
Post# 874877 , Reply# 120   3/29/2016 at 18:36 (2,921 days old) by joeypete (Concord, NH)   |   | |
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