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Thread Number: 37494
Suds Saver Questions |
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Post# 557496 , Reply# 2 11/18/2011 at 03:37 (4,536 days old) by mayfan69  (Brisbane Queensland Australia) |
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Suds Save | ||
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Post# 557508 , Reply# 3 11/18/2011 at 06:00 (4,535 days old) by RE563 (Fort Worth, Texas) |
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My mom had suds savers on her washer. Infact, she has a Maytag that she purchased in 1982, that she still has today with a suds saver and still uses it. What Maytagebear wrote above is basically correct. Mom never let wash water go down the drain unless it had been used twice. I do remember, reading a article in the mid to late 80's, (IIRC), and the end of the suds saver system had to do more with the fact that "officals" (who ever they maybe) said that it was very unsanitary to be doing this and that seemed to be the end of saving wash water. Don't know where they got that since plan soap (detergent) and water kills germs. It is of my opinion that the detergent manufactures may have also had a hand in the demise of suds savers so that they could sell more detergent.
I do agree that they should bring back this feature, with everyone trying to go "green" these days, it certainly would make most machines "efficient", not to mention the cost savings on detergent. | ||
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Post# 557528 , Reply# 4 11/18/2011 at 06:44 (4,535 days old) by polkanut (Wausau, WI ) |
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Lawrence, Maytag still had suds-saver models available in 1998 when we bought our current Dependable Care set. We did however have to special order our washer, and it only took about a week to arrive IIRC. Like Robert's mom, we use our suds-saver every wash day. Our water also gets used twice before going down the drain.
The explanation above is almost exactly how I've said it in the past.
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Post# 557531 , Reply# 5 11/18/2011 at 07:11 (4,535 days old) by akronman (Akron/Cleveland Ohio) |
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suds saving I almost always save suds, going from curtains and sheets to shirts and undies, finishing with a third load of pants and socks, a bit more detergent added each use. My 1-18 and GE FF have fantastic long spray rinses, everything comes out clean and well rinsed. It saves water and energy and detergent, it's easy to do, and everything comes out clean. If I am laundering up after some dog or infant child problem, no, I don't save suds. And whites with super hot watr and bleach, I don't re-use. Otherwise, all the time, which is around 80% of the time.
Like Lawrence said, 2 tubs are needed, or one with a standpipe nearby since you'll have 2 hoses. Other than that, just plug the drain with a stopper and hit the buttons for saving suds, then returning suds, it's easy. Believe me, Grandma did 3 or more loads of clothes in her wringer in the same water, a 1/3 addition of soap each time. | ||
| Post# 557573 , Reply# 6 11/18/2011 at 11:21 (4,535 days old) by mickeyd (Hamburg NY) | ||
flood the basement if it was left on by accident On the machines that have a SAVE/ DRAIN button, here's what happens.
When you select save, the suds water comes out the long goose neck hose, and the rinse water comes out the standard drain hose.
When you select drain, all exiting water comes out the regular drain hose. So if you only have one sink, no standpipe and don't use the suds-saver, and some curious washer boy comes by and flips the switch to save, UH-OH. "Keep that kid away from the washer."
Many, many machines do not have such a switch, especially the early Kemore - Whirlpools where the suds-returns were a standard feature. The suds-return is on the main dial just before the wash, all proceeding automatically. Another cool thing about those machines was the very long L-shaped rinse hose that stretched across the first laundry tub where the suds water was store over to the second tub to drain the rinse water.
I used to love hearing the valve switch over after the suds were spun and just before the spray rinse began, keeping the spray rinse water out of the suds sink or tub. Magic to a little washer boy. This post was last edited 11/18/2011 at 11:50 | ||
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Post# 557607 , Reply# 7 11/18/2011 at 14:13 (4,535 days old) by yogitunes (New Jersey) |
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This can still be done without a sudsaver washer.......
but you will need space, and another machine or two.......and this also would be a manual system, where you would have to be there to monitor the set-up one way would be to have a wringer, as a holder for the wash water, when ready use its pump to replenish back to the automatic......like I said, you would have to stay with the machines and move hoses around, from wringer to sink.... I have had 3 or more machines in-line, having each one drain the suds water into the next.....and the continue thru the cycle allowing the rinse to go down the drain.......... this re-use has come in handy to save water from lightly soiled clothes, to wash grimy work clothes, shop/cleaning rags, or dog bedding.....a great way to save money used to heat that hot water, and not using the full dose of detergent for the next load..... heck, if possible, re-route your drain line to let the rinse water, water the lawn or flower bed........what better way to conserve and get multi uses of the water..........I have the greenest, thickest, most plush lawn on one side of my house, night and day difference...from the washers water! during water restriction periods, many people re-use their shower water to water outside plants...........given restrictions like this, people will do what they have to, to get around limitations........... look at the gas prices recently......a lot of people are conserving where they can, or buy newer efficient vehicles that use less gas............give the country a permanent restriction, or high water cost.....guarantee you will see them do things almost unbelievable, manufacturers will bring back the suds saver feature, or something that will adapt to your machine, or people will design their own, even if it means creating one out of a large 30 gallon trash barrel, and hand bailing that water back into the machine..... | ||
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Post# 557608 , Reply# 8 11/18/2011 at 14:18 (4,535 days old) by yogitunes (New Jersey) |
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even this contraption can turn your machine into a sudsaver......people are always thinking.....!
CLICK HERE TO GO TO yogitunes's LINK | ||
| Post# 557610 , Reply# 9 11/18/2011 at 14:37 (4,535 days old) by macboy91si (Frankfort, KY) | ||
Interesting... But certainly not for the masses. Large metal frame strapped to the top of a beautiful machine, no thanks. What I do agree with though is the principal of saving the water definitely, it's one of the things I love about twin-tubs. Actually if people are willing for operation that manual, a twin-tub or wringer is right up their alley. I recently acquired a Maytag with a suds-saver, but just discovered that the suds-valve doesn't seal all the way so water goes out the drain hose and the suds hose at the same time instead of one OR the other. Luckily the part is still available. Personally I can't wait to try it out.
The thing about "green" is people don't want to actually BE green. They want something shiny with a label that SAYS it's "green". It's all about the image. People that usually drive a hybrid and have a $2000 F/L washer and use cold water with sub-standard eco-detergent and ride their high-horse like they're changing the world. There are ways to get reasonable performance out of things and save energy, but that requires work and people can't be bothered with it. So what we get are over-priced, shoddily built items with a green sticker that can't properly perform the task that they were created to do.
-Tim
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Post# 557617 , Reply# 11 11/18/2011 at 15:45 (4,535 days old) by whirlykenmore78 (Prior Lake MN (GMT-0500 CDT.)) |
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Tunnel washers, Commercial DW's Suds saving on a massiv
Large tunnel washers use a water counterflow process by where laundry flows one way through the machine's compartments (prewash>washes>rinses) water enters at the other end of each section (wash and rinse). Therefore depending on the size and number of washing and rinsing compartments water may be reused 4 or 5 times before going to drain.
Most commercial dishwashers also reuse final rinse water for washing. This is done either by draining wash water and retaining rinse water for the next wash or by an overflow wash tank which is filled at the beginning of a meal service and replenished by the incoming fresh rinse water. Water in tanks is changed between washing periods. | ||
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Post# 557955 , Reply# 13 11/20/2011 at 03:06 (4,534 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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From The 1960's Through 1980's
Thereabouts enough housewives either knew of wringer washing machines and or at least saw them in action via older female relatives. Therefore the concept of reusing wash water wasn't that "icky" to many. Add to this the 1960's and 1970's being a time of "environmental concern" and later the energy crisis one could also see how suds saving washers would have a market.
Remember detergents routinely gave dosage ranges for wringer washers right though the early 1980's so someone out there was using them. Using a suds saving washer is only slightly different than a wringer. In both instances one is reusing wash water and long as one adds more detergent to keep the cleaning power level up, washing should come clean. However routine washday advice from wringer/wash tub days applied; once the water became grossly filthy it was time to have a fresh tub of clean water/detergent. Consider also that detergent dosage as given on packets then as now is often in excess of requirements to get the job done, an arguement could be made that wash water often still contains lots of cleaning power at the end of a cycle. | ||
| Post# 558252 , Reply# 14 11/21/2011 at 07:40 (4,532 days old) by macboy91si (Frankfort, KY) | ||
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Automatic, Single Use Wash Water ...is terribly wasteful IMO, having used twin-tubs for over 7 years straight, I can attest that there is plenty of use left in the water beyond the 1st load. I will never understand the cross-contamination or ick factor to this. It's not like you're re-washing in muck using a suds-saver, if you are, you're doing it wrong. For most casual-wear I wouldn't think twice about it, I mean how dirty do you really get at the cubicle at work? I won't reuse the water for some things like pet cleanup or bedding and such but usually in the twin tubs I start out with lightest colors and work my way to dark. As I've mentioned before, I can easily fill a full-size dryer on laundry day with clothes washed in the ~11 gallon twin tub and even then the water is not mucky as much as it is discolored from the dyes. This is why I can't wait to get the A502S in perfect order.
-Tim | ||
| Post# 559238 , Reply# 16 11/25/2011 at 20:21 (4,528 days old) by bpetersxx (laf in on the banks of the Wabash River) | ||
sorry pic is not too clear but this is the 806s that you see in Harvest greens
The 606s has all the soap on it at the time Laundry tub sits to the right of the 806s I did have to fix the diverter valve on the 806s as it as ejecting the wash and the rinse water thru both hoses and would not suds return oh the youtube link is for my 308s but I think I do have a video of the 806s wash save CLICK HERE TO GO TO bpetersxx's LINK 
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| Post# 559264 , Reply# 17 11/25/2011 at 23:49 (4,528 days old) by golittlesport (California) | ||
the way people do laundry has changed
Back in the days of conventional washers, laundry was often done all at once, usually taking the better part of the day ("washday"). It was common practice to reuse the wash water immediately after wringing out the clothes while rinsing the first load in a separate tub. The wash water was still sudsy and hot. Many thought that the first automatic washers were wasteful with water...especially hot water. Thus the suds saver feature was a popular option for many.
But using a suds saver on an automatic washer is not exactly the same as doing 2-3 loads of clothes consecutively in a conventional machine where you are adding the next load as soon as the previous load is removed from the water. On an automatic washer, the used wash water sat for at least 30 minutes getting cold before the machine finished its cycle and the next load could be started. And since the person doing the laundry often didn't stand there with the machine like with a conventional washer, the time between loads was often longer still. So the first load was hot water, the second lukewarm and it was stone cold by the third load. But one could adjust to that and wash whites first (without bleach), then colors and finally rugs, rags or jeans. These days people do laundry at all times of the day and night and everyday of the week. A load here and a load there. Few have the time or patience to babysit a washer and try to reuse the water. (Although most of us here would be the exception.) | ||
| Post# 559416 , Reply# 19 11/26/2011 at 15:44 (4,527 days old) by kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.) | ||
I would absolutely like to have a sudsreturn model! I often and almost only do laundry on weekend saturday and or sunday my washdays and I've 3-6 loads to do sequentially. How many times I would have used a suds return to wash darks after a whites load in hot water!!!!!
The water would have lost the heat getting to warm and perfect for a dark load...... Wash water can definitively be re-used! When my washer got broken one year ago I had to hand wash for 4 weeks as it have been a long repair, I used to wash everything in my bathtub, and I always reused water twice if not more, I think it's one of the most normal things! Unsanitary.....magazines always write a lot of b******s, I bet that article was wote with the sponsor of detergent makers! Or simply when they does not know how to fill pages does invent these kind of idiocies....... I think rather that the practice of reusing wash water have been lost for many combined reasons, people got too squeamish, detergent makers did their best to sell more detergent putting around stories like that article..... Also.... many people got wasteful and got too worried to "bother" themselves to have a separate tub, repumping water etc....for the series: "but what a drag!" Many people does not have anymore a washday dedicated to the laundry and deep household chores like used to be, now they do this when it happends in separate days , and sometimes unfortunately they also run their appliances jut half or even less of their capacity just to do not have the "bother" of having two dirty shirts and a towel in their dirty basket..... But no excuse, makers should have still be making washers with this feature as many people would have used it anyway...... | ||
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Post# 559454 , Reply# 20 11/26/2011 at 17:12 (4,527 days old) by yogitunes (New Jersey) |
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wasn't there a few machines that used to save their water inside of their cabinet for re-use......
my aunt was the first one I ever saw use a suds save contraption or method......using 2 automatic washers......took a few minutes to get into her routine and keep track, but was actually fun to do.....and then the clothes went into the dryer for a few minutes to warm up, and then hung on the line.....the loads got done faster than you think.......I wanted to do the same thing, we did have 2 machines, but one was in the basement and one in the kitchen......but could still be done with a large trash barrel.....only thing was the water cooled while waiting for the machine to finish....... I still re-use every now and then.....hot bleach water is great a 2nd time for dog blankets or cleaning rags........and a denim jean load seems to keep their color using the water over and over for the same thing.... a wringer is always great for a manual suds save.....either use it to just save the water and pump back...or wash in the wringer and rinse and spin in the automatic.... | ||
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Post# 560111 , Reply# 22 11/29/2011 at 07:41 (4,524 days old) by polkanut (Wausau, WI ) |
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When we bought our house there was a late '60's GE FF with a suds-saver in the basement, and a dedicated "suds tub" next to it that also doubled as the laundry sink. When we remodeled in 2001, we brought the tub upstairs to our new laundry room because we received a Maytag Dependable Care set (washer model: LAW9406AAE) from my parents as a wedding gift.
As I posted above, when we went to pick out our washer/dryer set we had to special order the washer because in 1998 it was at the tail end of Maytag's production of suds-saver models. | ||
| Post# 560321 , Reply# 23 11/30/2011 at 04:50 (4,524 days old) by qualin (Canada) | ||
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Does anyone still make suds saving washers these days? | ||
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Post# 560344 , Reply# 24 11/30/2011 at 07:08 (4,523 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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LAST SUDS-SAVER WASHERS MT was the last to build these going into the 2000s, WP was still making one model for the KM brand till near the end of the 1990s and in the earlier 1990s they they sold a WP branded SS model.
I am not aware of any still being built, people just don't have enough common sense to use a simple low-tech way to save energy, water and detergent any more. | ||
| Post# 560371 , Reply# 25 11/30/2011 at 09:28 (4,523 days old) by macboy91si (Frankfort, KY) | ||
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Oh Shiny! | ||
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Post# 560566 , Reply# 27 12/1/2011 at 07:30 (4,522 days old) by yogitunes (New Jersey) |
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they could offer both.............
FrontLoad.......water saving eco-friendly Traditional Top Load....Eco-Suds or Eco-Boost... oddly enough, there are still homes with sudsavers and wringers still in use, and this is what they prefer......mostly a trait handed down, but was still amazed to go into homes and see them still being used......and just the same, even with dryers, they hang clothes outside.... makes you wonder.....say 30 years from now......when regular top loaders are a thing of the past, and wringers are no longer available.....gov standards for FL is the only thing available......what are people like the Amish gonna do for washing clothes.....a gas powered, non electronic controlled, front loader?.......who knows, they may take on a new business of building gas powered wringers, or semi automatics...... | ||
| Post# 560862 , Reply# 29 12/2/2011 at 18:07 (4,521 days old) by kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.) | ||
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guess the switch to front loaders these days kind of elimina | ||
| Post# 560863 , Reply# 30 12/2/2011 at 18:18 (4,521 days old) by kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.) | ||
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@yogitunes Say 30 years and REGULAR washer a things of the p | ||
| Post# 560866 , Reply# 31 12/2/2011 at 18:52 (4,521 days old) by kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.) | ||
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P.S Why gov standards should change then? If so would be Just a matter of $! This is just a fad in times of crisis trying to improve the selling and of course switching to these New "HE" scam, you know "The news" and everyone knows how persuasive commercials can be and also the idea of save more money possible in these times..........many people who switched to them is totally repented now, there'tre also people happy but you know..."It takes all sorts to make a world"
I Think..... Gov just follow what brings the $...and a mass switching to "HE" are a lot of $$$ for wich the gov takes his part for making favorable laws to this.... | ||
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Post# 560878 , Reply# 32 12/2/2011 at 20:51 (4,521 days old) by yogitunes (New Jersey) |
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This could be a fad when it comes to HE machines......theres a lot of people like us who do not like the way a new FLer uses too little water.....
Look back to the 70's when gas prices went skyrocketing, and limited, and actually the same right now, everyone is going to the smaller, fuel efficient cars....but like in the 80's people craved V8 power, and auto makers fed their needs, for some it doesn't matter how much gas it drinks.....its what the people want.......those first generation 4bangers were great on gas, very poor on performance...... the FLers may head that way in a number of years.....they won't go away, TL may make a comeback, and the FLers will be more EFFECTIVE, not water efficient anything is possible | ||
| Post# 560939 , Reply# 33 12/3/2011 at 10:13 (4,520 days old) by kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.) | ||
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But anyway, I think a FL can't, and will never be more effective than TL......that's impossible.
Now they attract the people because of their presumed "efficiency on consumption" and because of massive commercials..... FL always existed in US, let's remeber the earlier days when manufacturers brought out FL washers....... I know of Philco- Bendix,launderall, combos etc..... People in US and many other countries of the world like Australia, latin America, part of asia and India (except most of europe) preferred the top loaders agitator washers.....there's not that much to tell about....... They way how a FL or a TL works on washing is a thing that cannot change that much in the time, tumbling wet clothes vs. agitating and beating clothes through water.... I think the second one for obvious reasons of force majeure performs better and it is an incontrovertible fact.... I cannot give a response to the question why in europe are most the FL washers..... but I can tell you that living in Italy I've seen and tried a lot of FL washers and they never provided laundry as clean as a TL does, Agitator washers are coming out now here as for gas dryers, you cannot find them in the shops but there're many dealers who import them, the average cost for a BOL speed queen or whirlpool is about 1500euros for washer and 1700 for a gas dryer,everyone who try a TL is entuxiast about their "never so clean" laundry! They cost a fortune and who can in these times want to have one of them, and unfortunately crisis being everywhere people who can are not so many, the reason because they does not sell them in shops it is just because the electric companies avoid this as they would be revolutionary on consumption, that's also why most people here always hanged laundry instead of having the privilege and fortune of owning a dryer as italian never knew about gas dryers till now and all dryers were electric (who lives in Italy knows that everything here is mafia strating from the government),TL agitator are much more "HE" than any other FL they sell here because they fill hot water instead of heating themselves with electricity also, and electricity here cost a LOT.... but let's talk about washing results now.... Most part of my friends and neighbors now have a TL washer because they knew TL agitator washers from me, they say they never had a better machine before and their laundry never been so clean... All this to explain how things can be absurd..... This post was last edited 12/03/2011 at 11:24 | ||
| Post# 561015 , Reply# 34 12/3/2011 at 16:45 (4,520 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia) | ||
Freddy... ...where would you like me to start?
I've yet to meet a European who would swap a European front load or front load action, top load machine for an American style top loader to be used as their everyday machine.
The biggest problem with American front load machines is their short cycles. When you reduce one of the essentials for cleaning (time/chemical/water), you need to increase one or both of the others.....
Personally, I'd take my non-lint producing, low water using, high spinning, 'no need to soak/bleach because I do profile washes' cleaning power European front load machine over pretty much anything that the US produces and so do millions of Australians, Europeans and other nationalities. There are good reasons why other countrys don't buy many American goods compared to the 1950's and 1960's......and cost isn't always the first one.
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| Post# 561108 , Reply# 36 12/4/2011 at 09:35 (4,519 days old) by kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.) | ||
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To Chris and Bud
I actually know many europeans who want a TL washer!!!
I can tell you that an european FL Takes almost 2 hours to get the job done (even because they have to heat their water) so it's not a matter of time, it's not even matter of water, older models used more water than newer, half of window, but anyway they does not wash clothes as clean as a TL does, my paternal granma had an AEG (400F was the model) and a Ignis topload (tumble washer) it was her first washer, I was not born when she had the Ignis but she talk very bad of that washer, I remeber her laundry with the AEG though, when I was a kid, she always had to pretreat and hand wash laundry before washing, as I must to do when I have to do laundry in a FL, she found it normal to prewash and pretreat laundry before machine washing as many FL owner still find too, while for me it is not! Then my mama made her know her agitator washer and bought one for her from US in thye 1998, she still have it and it is a Maytag. Lint..... First of all, assuming that they are not because of the washing. I can assure you that the lint amount is the same also, the only thing is that most TL does collect them in filters (which is another good feature of TL) and so you notify of them for that. While FL always leaves lint into clothes the same way they leave their dirt in them ! And you can see it even more clearly when you do a dark load! Most of the times when washing with a FL you notify of lint just after drying, in the dryer screen, the dryer screen gets more full when you used a FL instead of TL with a lint filter, my Maytag (that i owned for just 2 years before selling for 900 euros to a very happy lady)had a lint filter too as obviously my Filter-flo have. And it's absurd that a washer ruin or wear clothes, all depends from the user and from the messes he does, that's normal that if you wash a wool sweater on high speed it gets ruined! But it's not a matter of TL or not, any washer if used uncorrectly have the potential of ruining clothes! Also,that's another little story, I used a whirlpool FL when I was at a rental house in the mountain who had the bad habit of wearing clothes swipping on the rubber seal and eating sleeves under the drum, it ruined my swetshirt and 2 trousers! My TL never ruined anything! Just once a wool blanket for wich by mistake I did selected hot water instead of warm. Detergent marks.... Please don't tell me about detergent marks with a FL, at our's sea house we have a FL and I always have to wash darks by hands because of lint and soap marks on them, the washer is an Hotpoint ariston, we had a Sangiorgio before and it used to do the same things.... Also, I can tell you that a FL have also some speeds not just one, in fact they varies by program to program...ex. a wool cycle will have low wash &spin speed.... Chris, I'm speaking about TL washers not about countries from where they come from, in fact there're australian TL, Brazilian, Indian etc....it's not a matter of american or not..... Spin speed....a TL can reach the same spin speed as a FL...a 1950s unimatic reach 1000 and more rpm, as like a modern aussie Fisher&Paykel..... Oh and also, I never had the need to use any bleach or additive with my GE or maytag, or soak ...just detergent and regular cycle does the job! Remain the fact that I think a washer who tumble packed wet clothes for obvious reasons can't get clothes as clean as a TL does! And using 2 fingers of water also....camon! And then someone tells about rinsing........ Anyway, I used to read a similar matter TL vs. FL on this site time ago and what the people have been able to get out was too funny and scary at the same time....so I do not want to repeat this again....thank you for commenting and expressing your opionion what's matter is that you're happy with what you have..... This post was last edited 12/04/2011 at 14:25 | ||
| Post# 561162 , Reply# 37 12/4/2011 at 14:44 (4,519 days old) by ronhic (Canberra, Australia) | ||
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Post# 561262 , Reply# 39 12/5/2011 at 07:53 (4,518 days old) by yogitunes (New Jersey) |
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Variables can change a number of outcomes for Commercial Laundromats
a simple TL or FL like the Neptune....single load machines, are usually programmed for the quickest cycle, usually about 30 minutes....time is money...compared to a home machine..... a Triple-Loading huge FLer cycle runs a little longer, you can't possibly put 3 normal size loads in a machine, and expect them to clean 3 times the size in a 10 minute wash cycle........these machines are great for large bulky items like comforters, and you'll get great results, for the most part a long cycle versus light soil..... I have advantages with my Neptunes versus a Laundry....I can adjust cycles to each load.....hot water is at 160 degrees.......I can select whitest whites, prewash or presoak, an actual cycle extended stain cycle, plus an extra rinse.......and never have had bad results....a guaranteed clean everytime......compared to a dedicated short cycle, load clothes, and take your chances.... I only use a Laundromat for items that I don't want to place in my home machines, and take a chance of ruining it! TLers are fun to watch and play with, and for the most part do a nice job.... Flers are, for a better word, efficient on water, detergent, electric.....they tend to be gentler on clothing, but my strong point is the high speed spin... | ||
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