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Thread Number: 38031
Buying Commercial Machines and comparison to domestic |
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Post# 565276 , Reply# 1 12/26/2011 at 13:01 (4,497 days old) by Launderess  (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Am going to roll all those questions into one response.
There are basic commercial washing machines and there are those with microprocessor controls that allow full programming of each portion of a cycle from water levels, temperatures, wash action (rpms per minute tumbling), spin, etc. These setting normally are saved and given names such as "mops", linens hospital", linens hospital blood", "shirts", and so forth. It really all comes down to how much the laundry wants to spend and their needs. Your basic "commercial" laundromat washer is designed to do one thing day in and day out; process laundry quickly to allow high turn over per washer to the owner can get more "money" per washer. No laundromat owner wants a conga-line of customers waiting hours for a machine. They may turn around leave and not come back. It difficult to compare costs between a true commercial washer versus domestic. Much of what goes into many of the latter is "fluff" such as various cycles and other bells and whistles that don't really add much. Commercial laundry owners OTHO may care about frills but normally are more concerned about what is under the bonnet. If Madame's washer goes out she's out doing a few wash loads until it's fixed. When a commercial washer goes out that's money going out two ways: first it is not generating revenue, second one still has to pay for the unit even during down time. By this one refers to payments made if the unit isn't owned outright (leased, on credit, etc). To the above commercial laundry owners are also concerned how long the washer will last. The idea of spending several thousand for a unit that will break down and basically isn't able to be repaired after about three years, just won't fly. By and large most commmercial washers are designed not only to be repaired but broken down and rebuilt. This is why you can find commercial washers >50 years old still chugging away. Three phase powered motors are far more robust and longer lasting than single. Considering the duty cycles of commercial units are normally >25 or even >50 loads per day you want something that will do all that work day after day, year after year without complaints and last. For some higher end quasi commercial/domestic washers such as those offered by Miele one cannot go by just what the machine "takes in" in terms of power requirements. Miele like many others puts various converters/inverters inside their units so even if the washer is using say 120v/single phase that isn't what is going to all parts of the unit. This does add to the cost of the unit but is still cheaper than one having to install proper converters and or inverters as separate units. As for special tools and such for repair/access much of that has to do with keeping proprietary information about the product where it belongs. Miele does this for even their domestic products. Granted in the UK or EU it is easier to find parts and or other information on such appliances without going through Miele, here on this side of the pond we are usually out of luck. Many commercial manufactuers of laundry equipment want nothing to do with domestic use unless like Alliance they have such a division. For one thing there are the legal liability issues involving safety. Then there is warranty support. Finally many commercial repairmen just don't want to deal with "Madame" or any other domestic user and either their misuse of the washer (then claiming it won't do with they want or was told it would do), or constant service calls because people don't bother to read directions, and so forth. For commercial units there is also the fact service can take weeks or months,something many domestic users wouldn't stand for. I've seen washers out of service at our local laundromat for weeks or in one case months. There is an old saying that many laundromat owners and or those who run commercial laundries also are good repairmen. This is because many do much of the minor repair work themselves rather than have a washer out of service. Your average homeowner isn't going to have the proper tools, equipment, time or knowledge to pull and replace bearings, but you'd be surprised how many commercial laundry owners do and will. | ||
| Post# 565283 , Reply# 2 12/26/2011 at 14:05 (4,497 days old) by PeterH770 (Marietta, GA) | ||
As a laundromat owner, I can say... (IMHO / YMMV)
1) Machines used to be priced at about $100 per pound of capacity. It's now closer to $150 or $175. However, commercial customers rare buy just one machine. Commercial distributes will charge a residential user/single unit purchaser the MSRP. And that does *not* include freight (from the manufacturer to the distributor), transport (from the distributor to the installation site), installation labor, site prep and taxes. So, the $3845 above might turn into a much higher number. 2) While 3-phase machines are available, most are now made single phase, thanks to the integration of inverter drives. 3) All commercial machines are good in doing the job for which they are installed. However, there is some quirkiness between brands, and it all depends on what the owner is willing to live with. For example, Wascos are very easy to repair, but are a bit less sturdy than they used to make. Dexters are extremely sturdy, but things like the door lock, gaskets, suds percolating out of the top of the machine are problems to me. I have never been impressed with the durability of Alliance commercial machines. I do not know how much Alliance has changed the original Belgium Ipso design, but I never liked Ipso to begin with. 4) Like the inverter drive, commercial are more computerized than ever. Each brand allows from some to total flexibility in changing the wash formula. However, most are a single change that applies to all cycles. Like #3 above, you have a certain amount of quirkiness in the computer that you have to decide what you will tolerate. 5) As far as I know, no commercial machine needs a proprietary tool to do a certain repair. You may need metric tools, but nothing that has to come from the manufacturer. 6) Nearly all machines need to be bolted into 6" of concrete. You can buy a softmount, but they are *extremely* heavy machine and will shake a mansion when they go into spin. All are gravity drain, most with no possible adaptation for a pump. 7) All commercial laundry owners work on their machines. Only when the repair really gets out of hand will they call someone to handle it. Thus, repair service calls are usually quite complicated, expensive and time consuming. For example, I would never attempt a bearing job, and am saving my pennies to call someone in to do it correctly, but everything else I do myself. You don't want to waste your money for something simple like a bra wire in the drain or a sock lodged in the outer tub -- something that would totally befuddle a domestic user. | ||
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Post# 565290 , Reply# 3 12/26/2011 at 15:15 (4,497 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Pump vs Gravity Drain
Wherein lies the rub:
If one wants truly commercial quality and results then IMHO you have to "sink a pit" and go with gravity drain. In so many ways one feels superiour results come from simply opening a valve and dumping water. For one thing without a pump the washer is free to not only cycle faster but can get on with extracting even very sudsy water without worrying about choking said pump. | ||
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Post# 565310 , Reply# 5 12/26/2011 at 19:46 (4,497 days old) by Pulsator (Saint Joseph, MI) |
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There is one commercial FL washer that isn't a rebadged Frigidaire residential machine with a pump! The Continental Girbau EH020. You can choose either pump or gravity drain, it can even come with a heater!
A friend of my boyfriend is planning on buying one for his new wife as she hates that you can't select specific temperatures (She's Russian) like she's used to. I'm quite jealous as I've been lusting after one of these myself! CLICK HERE TO GO TO Pulsator's LINK | ||
| Post# 565327 , Reply# 6 12/26/2011 at 20:55 (4,497 days old) by mrb627 (Buford, GA) | ||
Continental | ||
| Post# 565359 , Reply# 8 12/27/2011 at 03:17 (4,497 days old) by qualin (Canada) | ||
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To PeterH770 Peter, My e-mail address is qualin@n0$pam.shaw.ca (Get rid of the nospam part) I have a bunch of questions to ask you in regards to your laundromat, but I wouldn't mind spending a bit of money to actually call you, would be a little faster. :-) | ||
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Post# 565366 , Reply# 9 12/27/2011 at 03:59 (4,497 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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"idea of starting my own laundromat for a while now....&
Yes, you would do well to speak with Peter and other actual laundromat owners.
In short it's not something to go into lightly and much harder than it looks. Many people see the adverts in local news papers here put out by Alliance and other makers of laundry equipment about going into the laundromat business. The focus of such seminars is to get persons to part with large sums and sign on the dotted line for even greater sums (leasing of equipment, etc) to get the scheme going. Of course the equipment comes from Alliance, Wascomat and so forth so that is where they get their money out of it. What happens is these poor souls have no clue what they are getting themselves into. Those machines must be kept running a good part of everyday in order to bring money to pay off debts including overhead before the laundromat owner even sees any sort of profit. This explains why (at least in these parts) many laundromats are either absentee businesses (usually the owner has several and or other money making ventures so he can *afford* to hire workers), or it's an immigrant usually with his family working all the hours God provides doing wash and fold service to make any money. Where possible you want to own the building your laundromat is in or have a *very* long lease. Here most all commercial and residential leases cleary state anything bolted or otherwise affixed to the walls,floors, or other parts of the building belong to the landlord even if he gives permission. What has happened is a new person will lease a space and build up his laundromat business, only to have the lease not renewed at some point. Well now all that equipment (washers/dryers/etc) is sitting there and it's not unheard of for the landlord to get shot of the owner and turn right around and open up the mat himself already fully equipped. There is a good website, CoinLaundry.com you might want to check out as well. In short really do your homework! Just because most of us here like doing several loads of wash a day and or tinker with laundry appliances it in no way compares to washing hundreds of pounds of clothes per day. Don't know about up north, but here in the United States Experian will furnish marketing data about a certain area. You tell them what parameters you are seeking and they generate reports. For a laundromat you need to know what established ones are serving a particular area you are interested in. What sort of business are they doing (strictly coin-op and or drop off fluff and fold), do they offer pick-up and delivery? Is the place clean and well run? How old is the equipment? What are his price points? Where possible it is probably always better to purchase an exsisting business as opposed to starting up your own from scratch. An older mat is likely to have most of the equipment paid off so that is one less worry. Also you wont have the hassles of trying to compete. You can then make small differences such as changing the decor and other things that don't cost much to bring the place up while you are earning money. With a running mat you also will get a better idea of what your customer base wants/needs which is good for ordering new equipment. | ||
| Post# 565437 , Reply# 10 12/27/2011 at 18:02 (4,496 days old) by PeterH770 (Marietta, GA) | ||
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| Post# 565457 , Reply# 12 12/27/2011 at 20:29 (4,496 days old) by coldspot () | ||
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By the way his dad was the first owner of the place and was built around 1951 | ||
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Post# 565461 , Reply# 13 12/27/2011 at 20:43 (4,496 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Top vs Front Loaders For Laundromats
It is rare to find top loading washers in NYC area laundromats. Indeed one would venture to say the only commercial setting you'll see them are apartment buildings and or other places with route accounts.
In NYC laundries pay for water twice, once for incoming water and again for sewage so it pays to keep those costs down. | ||
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Post# 565484 , Reply# 15 12/27/2011 at 22:36 (4,496 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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"other wise you'll just work yourself to death keepi
There you go.
IMHO there is more money in route/drop off and or otherwise providing a laundry service than actually running a laundromat. While running any sort of laundry is work at least service routes aren't dependent upon customers in a set area. One can have a greatly expanded service area long as it's managed well enough that costs aren't out of hand. With more women entering the workforce more and more persons find less time to do any sort of household chores which explains the growth in home cleaning services as well. With laundry being one chore most persons hate doing anyway many appreciate not having to bother period. All the laundromats in NYC offer extensive wash fold services with most doing >50% to even 75% (or more) of their business that way. During the summer months and or holiday season for instance our local is almost devoid of self-serve customers. | ||
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Post# 565498 , Reply# 17 12/28/2011 at 00:03 (4,496 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Sadly Like Much Else Around Our Way
Local laundromats/dry cleaners tend to employ mostly immigrants, mostly illegal.
One knows this from simply speaking with the workers whilst the wash is getting on in the machine. These persons do everything from running the wash/fold side of things to making deliveries in all sorts of weather. Our local laundromat is owned by the man who own's the apartment building it resides in, so the workers are all hired directly by himself and he does nothing but collect the rent. OTHO no one knows how to service the machines and thus the mat has a service contract. It is not unusual to see one or more washers/dryers with out of order signs for weeks on end until they are repaired. | ||
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Post# 566177 , Reply# 20 12/31/2011 at 18:28 (4,492 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Thing To Remember About Commercial Front Loaders
Is that they are built to be installed under certain conditions (building structure, plumbing, etc) and if those aren't available *you* must create them or tough cheese.
Domestic front loaders must deal with various installations but the main thing is the underlying flooring. Many buildings with in house laundries back in the day had them located on the top floors of a building. Of course this meant as the structure was designed and constructed it was built to withstand not only the weight of equipment but vibrations as well. You look at what happens when many consumers put large domestic front loaders on second or third floors despite being assured it was possible without any "problems". You get a whole lot of shaking going on! | ||
| Post# 566184 , Reply# 21 12/31/2011 at 20:44 (4,492 days old) by PeterH770 (Marietta, GA) | ||
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Post# 566299 , Reply# 23 1/1/2012 at 14:02 (4,491 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Reason Why Someone Is Selling...
You never know do you?
Could be they are old and or tired of running the place. Or, simply not able to make a go of it as a financial sucessful venture. That doesn't mean someone else with big ideas (based upon real world) cannot turn things around. Sometimes it only takes sprucing the place up a bit and a bit of effort. | ||
| Post# 566373 , Reply# 24 1/1/2012 at 23:58 (4,491 days old) by PeterH770 (Marietta, GA) | ||
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But you can get a deal when looking for existing laundries. My first store, the owner was clueless. Her loss; the price was so low I nearly stole the store. The second store was a brand new build. The owner died after 3 months and the estate gave it back to the finance company. Since I had a history with that company, they basically gave me the store for assuming the loan. So there are deals out there, you have to look and then leap when you find the opportunity. OTOH, I had done a demographic analysis and watched the stores, so I new they would be money makers going into the deal.
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| Post# 566383 , Reply# 25 1/2/2012 at 00:49 (4,491 days old) by arbilab (Ft Worth TX (Ridglea)) | ||
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| Post# 566391 , Reply# 27 1/2/2012 at 02:07 (4,491 days old) by macboy91si (Frankfort, KY) | ||
Coldspot | ||
| Post# 566392 , Reply# 28 1/2/2012 at 02:14 (4,491 days old) by qualin (Canada) | ||
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Thanks for the advice everyone. :) | ||
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