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Thread Number: 38205
moffat cooker |
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Post# 567256 , Reply# 1 1/6/2012 at 05:17 (4,492 days old) by vacbear58  (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK) |
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Hello back from South London
Hi Peter
And welcome to automaticwasher. How lucky you are to have the Moffat cooker, I have been on the look out for one of these for YEARS - they do occasionally come up on ebay but generally have been too far away or too expensive (or both) to make it worth while. I take it yours is the Fiesta 24 with the black drop down oven door? Or is it the Fiesta 21 with stainless doors and the second oven under the hob? Are you a baker? What is the oven like? And have you ever used the rotesserie? I am not sure there will be that much you can do at this stage, it must be 35+ years old. I presume you will have tried Hob Brite with an abrasive sponge? NOT a Brillo pad! For US members how might have some ideas on restoration this is a Corning white smooth top (or ceramic as we call it) range. Hob Brite is a proprietry cleaner for this sort of top - any other ideas? remember we will not have many of teh proprietry cleaners that you have in the US. Al | ||
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Post# 567282 , Reply# 4 1/6/2012 at 07:10 (4,492 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK) |
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More Moffats
Peter
You lucky bugger! I watch ebay regularly and I dont know how I missed it. I well remember both this cooker, I always wished i could persuade my parents to get one, but there are some battles you can never win. Apart from the built in version of this oven, the free-standing vesion you have would by my "must have" although I must say I would wave my induction hob good bye with a heavy heart. Your mum's would have been the earlier Canadian built version (probably about 10 years earlier) hence the heating element on the floor rather than the sides of the oven as we in the Uk were familiar with at that time. I am wondering about the clock, its digital (not digital display but rotating numbers) isn't it? One thing I have often considered when thinking about such a cooker is the possibality of replacing the whole top with a piece of stainless steel (I am sort of in that business and it would not be that hard) with a cut out to accept an induction. The cooker hob controls would be useless of course, but to me its the best of both worlds. I know what you mean about fan ovens as well, it is my preference too. No neeed to give up on a Flair style cooker either, as you will see in the attached advertisment Moffat imported one of those too. Now the chances of finding one might be marginal, but I have seen the wide range on the right on ebay about 15 months or so ago so they might still be around. The retro themed kicthen sounds interesting, I would love to do something like that myself, but for my small kicthen it is not really possible at the moment. Any chances of some pictures? have you managed to track down any other vintage appliances for it? Al CLICK HERE TO GO TO vacbear58's LINK on eBay | ||
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Post# 567312 , Reply# 6 1/6/2012 at 09:10 (4,492 days old) by petek (Ontari ari ari O ) |
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Post# 567318 , Reply# 7 1/6/2012 at 09:58 (4,492 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK) |
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Even more Moffs
Pete
The particular stove we are talking about was made in the UK - I have pics at home which I can load later. You will see examples of the earlier Canadian sourched models in the link above. Peter Is that the Jackson with the Buy It Now of £200? I saw that myself, but not at that price. Even the starting bid is a bit OTT at £100 Unfortunatly I do not have a Volvo and I aint strapping a cooker to the roof of my car LOLOLOLOLOL. And actually I may have even seen the Moffat (was in in a church hall or something?) but by the time I hire a van and the cost of the petrol it would just pushed the price too far. Actually the current cooker may be a Creda rather than Jackson - just a change in name, otherwise the same - I believe there was also a fan oven version of this (Circulaire) as well. I came across the radient ring version of the Jackson/Creda a few months ago when I picked up a vintage Hoover tumble drier but unfortunatly they weren't selling it - shame as the whole kitchen was more or less a 70s capsule. Great to hear about the small appliances too, I have a few of those myself and even a HB mixer (along with about 40 or so other mixers) - you will find many on here share similar interests. Now, we just need to fix you up with a nice vintage vacuum and a twin tub and you are all set ....... Al PS I am in Tooting/Colliers Wood area of SW London | ||
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Post# 567319 , Reply# 8 1/6/2012 at 10:04 (4,492 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK) |
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Putting pics on
Peter
Its really easy. Under the message composition box there is a "greyed out" box - "Upload JPEG Format Picture to share in message:". Click on the browse button and literally browse to the folder on your computer where any pictures you want to load are located, and select the photo - you can only load one at a time and there must also be some text in both the subject drift box and message composition box. Al | ||
| Post# 567323 , Reply# 10 1/6/2012 at 10:16 (4,492 days old) by peterlondon (london uk) | ||
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Moffat Here are a few pics of the moffplus a few appliances 
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| Post# 567324 , Reply# 11 1/6/2012 at 10:19 (4,492 days old) by peterlondon (london uk) | ||
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Moffat more 
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| Post# 567325 , Reply# 12 1/6/2012 at 10:20 (4,492 days old) by peterlondon (london uk) | ||
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moff more 
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| Post# 567327 , Reply# 13 1/6/2012 at 10:26 (4,492 days old) by peterlondon (london uk) | ||
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moff Sorry about the pot guys,making jewush penicilan (chicken soup) I have a hoover 612 which had a casualty to the top,this however works fine,good motor and roller,I dont want it now so up for grabs to a good home or for parts. Here are a few more bit pete 
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| Post# 567328 , Reply# 14 1/6/2012 at 10:28 (4,492 days old) by peterlondon (london uk) | ||
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hb mixer And my Hamilton beach 
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| Post# 567347 , Reply# 17 1/6/2012 at 11:33 (4,492 days old) by westie2 () | ||
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Yes when I saw the pressure coooker on it I know had to be able to take all pots and pans. Thanks for the reply.
That is one good looking cooker you have. Love you mixer and coffee makers too. And welcome to AW.ORG
Charles | ||
| Post# 567349 , Reply# 18 1/6/2012 at 11:43 (4,492 days old) by aquarius1984 (Planet earth) | ||
Hello Peter,
Well done, im very impressed. My aunty Carole had one of these when I was a kid but hers had Radiant rings, Under hob Grill Cavity with brushed? stainless steel/brushed aluminium? panel and a lower oven door with a black panel. To be unfair to it, the darn thing used to frighten me something stupid, would never be alone in the kitchen with it. God knows why but to some degree they stil put shivers down my spine when I see one. Dont think it was anything to do with size or style as my Mum had a Leisure Five Star Auto MK III to give it the full anme LOL which was similar in appearance I suppose with lots of black glass panels, chrome and stainless steel. I can only imagine its got something to do with the dials which I was none to keen on as they had a tendency to catch the street light outside my aunts kitchen and glow with reflection looking sinister to a 5 year old. Well enough about that, glad one has made it to a good home, just slightly amused that you have a first edition Hotpoint washer, my aunt had a Hotpoint 9514 (Economy Wash/Half Load) at the same time as this cooker. Your machine would of been a similar level machine compared to hers. Irrelevant but amusing if you get my drift. Yes a nice 70s machine would look brill, I can reccomend the Hotpoint 1828 if you should ever find one lolololol. | ||
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Post# 567352 , Reply# 19 1/6/2012 at 11:49 (4,492 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK) |
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Gotta love that Moffat
Peter
Thanks for posting the pics - this one must have crept under my radar as I dont recall seeing it at all, hornchurch would not have been a problem. It looks very well indeed in your kitchen :) I am not sure that much can be done with the top, I think it may just be discoloured with use, I am not sure they were ever designed for that much use and most similar I have seen have been discoloured in the same way. And thank you for posting such nice clear shots. Over the years I have seen several examples of this particular model (which was TOL - top of line - for its time) but never the cheaper all white radient ring model - which would have been like this, not your Mum's. Are the "rings" all the same size or are there 2x7" & 2x6"? If so, its possible that the Tricity split level might fit (I think the Moffat might be too wide) and as I recall it was available in black too. But your very clear pictures indicate that my "induction" solution might be a possibality although maybe three rings rather than four. Love the HB mixer - I have the same but in white (and, despite the 13amp plug on it when I bought it 115V). Love the coffee pots too - I have the same yellow one although mine was badly damaged when it arrived (grrrrrr...) so it was out with the superglue - I had planned to use it as an ornament but it would have been nice to use it now and again but there are plenty more ..... Have the same Swan perc as well - its my favourite. Might be interested in the 612, but we had better discuss that privatly. As for that Keymatic - well there are a few of them around believe it or not and a few vintage dishwashers too .... In fact there was a Bendix on ebay a couple of months back which would have been the match for the Moffat ...... But given your small kitchen the ideal solution would be a Hoover Twosome and I might just be able to stitch you up ...... I mean help you out with one :) Al PS Only joking about the Twosome although there is also a nice stainless steel Servis that would go with the Moffat at treat ........ | ||
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Post# 567354 , Reply# 20 1/6/2012 at 11:57 (4,492 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK) |
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Rob's Moffat
Rob
The one your auntie had would have been the Fiesta 21, slightly narrower than Peter's. Not to be dismissive about it, we are talking Tricity President with a rotesserie stuck on the top. Mind you that model was around a long time in one form and another too. I cannot remember if Leisure was part of Thorn or not - I know Parkinson Cowan was, and of course there were a few gas Moffats around too, although never at the same time as this particular range with would have been mid to late 1970s - 60's yes, 80s yes but not (mostly) the 70s Al | ||
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Post# 567413 , Reply# 22 1/6/2012 at 16:12 (4,492 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK) |
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Twin set
Pete
Of course I mean a Hoover single tub and spinarinse - i would not dream of suggesting any other sort of twin set - well not until I have met you anyway LOLOLOL I sincerely hope you will stick around - you skills will be much appreciated, not to mention your stories, which would be very welcome as well. Anyway, back to Moffats - this is the biggie from ebay a while back. The knobs on the LH & RH front were to wind one of the oven shelves up and down - grill (broiler) in the ovens 
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Post# 567415 , Reply# 23 1/6/2012 at 16:16 (4,492 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK) |
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Control panel close up | ||
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Post# 567416 , Reply# 24 1/6/2012 at 16:17 (4,492 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK) |
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Control panel close up | ||
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Post# 567417 , Reply# 25 1/6/2012 at 16:19 (4,492 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK) |
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Pete (UK) | ||
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Post# 567418 , Reply# 26 1/6/2012 at 16:21 (4,492 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK) |
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Rob's Nightmare | ||
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Post# 567421 , Reply# 27 1/6/2012 at 16:25 (4,492 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK) |
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And of course ....
My old Neff oven started playing up a while back. So, after months of watching for Moffats I finally got a new Neff (a bargain it was too - thanks John Lewis and it was not even in the clearence sale) which I installed last night.
So, what do i find on ebay today ....... Well not this exact one, but one that is identical, and of course its close to me too ..... 
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Post# 567549 , Reply# 31 1/7/2012 at 04:39 (4,491 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK) |
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Updating ......
Pete
I can imagine what a difference going from that big Moffat to the Tricity would have been - although reasonably adequate for most peoples needs when you have been used to the cavernous Moffat oven for 20 years or so, it must have seemed tiny. We had a Colston table top too (303 - squared off version although otherwise identical to the rounded one). I must say if a good mid 70s Fanfare came up I would give it serious consideration (I never really liked the later 70s version with full width handle strip) but I have rejected a few conventional oven versions as I really like a fan oven. By the way, the oven in "Rob's Moffat" would have been the same size as the Fanfare your Mum got. I remember the exact Neff you are talking about and indeed I had the smaller 1 & 1/2 version from 1985 until 2000. I re-did my kitchen then and wanted stainless so the Neff ended up going to the dump - and i have regretted it ever since for it was such a good oven. Your style of Moffat (or Jackson/Creda equivalents - they are a bit smaller I think) is about the only sort of freestanding i would ever consider as the oven is that bit higher, I have been "split level" since about 1984 - I had an older split level (Carron) for a while before the Neff. For me the main oven in most double oven cookers is far too low as i am tall. The one like your mothers was not expensive, and I dont think it even sold but there were a number of things that went against it. I probably could have fitted it in my kitchen but only in sacrifice of a lot of cupboard and work top space, and I dont actally use the hob that much in my day to day cooking (I am seriously considering taking out my 4 ring induction and replacing it with a "portable" induction unit) so the loss of worktop in particular would have been considerable, especially when baking. It would have needed a big van, and help to move it and at the time I was so bogged down with work (nothing new there) that I just did not have the time to deal with it. Oh well ...... There have been others since too, including a good Moffat oven (older version) early last year in London. Left that one too later too..... But if the built in version of your Moffat came up I would be going for it, and no questions asked Al | ||
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Post# 567555 , Reply# 33 1/7/2012 at 06:19 (4,491 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK) |
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Suits you Sir | ||
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Post# 567557 , Reply# 34 1/7/2012 at 06:21 (4,491 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK) |
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And while we are at it | ||
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Post# 567558 , Reply# 35 1/7/2012 at 06:24 (4,491 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK) |
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More Moffat | ||
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Post# 567559 , Reply# 36 1/7/2012 at 06:26 (4,491 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK) |
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Inside | ||
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Post# 567567 , Reply# 38 1/7/2012 at 07:21 (4,491 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK) |
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Make your will
yep
It was on ebay, a few years back, but they do still crop up from time to time and go for surprisingly large amounts - well surprising by my standards. Nothing wrong with liking rings - I will have mine from Tiffannys thank you :) The Creda is a Cavalcade and I would guess from mid to late 1960s but I know the Constellation to which you refer, it would be late 1950s - early 1960s (I am surprised i dont have a picture) with the solid rings and full height doors. Personally I HATE solid rings and very much regretted the passing of radient rings in the mid-1980s - largely I think as a result of European imports (and as the Uk manufacturers declined) as they seemed far more controllable than solid. Was the Connie the a pink one? If so, I saw that too but certainly would not be paying £180 for it - if you fancy a Connie there are loads of them about. Suction is OK for carpets, although I prefer to have one with a powered nozzle - such as my Miele Revolution but I used a straight suction Miele as daily driver for years quite happily. As with many other things, there are lots of options ...... Email has not bounced back, i cut and paste from the address in your profile Al | ||
| Post# 567570 , Reply# 39 1/7/2012 at 07:47 (4,491 days old) by peterlondon (london uk) | ||
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connie I think a connie for me.Ihave been having a trawl through ebay and jumped upon simon74.He has some great bits for sale,methinks I need a new iron now too. Does anybody know who made the small stainless micro late 70's I am after one of these also. Al no mail | ||
| Post# 567577 , Reply# 41 1/7/2012 at 08:34 (4,491 days old) by 74simon () | ||
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Just remembered, the family I bought it off did say the power button was a bit temperamental, and they bought it in an auction in '74 for £110! Still has its glass tray and carbon filter. 
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| Post# 567578 , Reply# 42 1/7/2012 at 08:36 (4,491 days old) by 74simon () | ||
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Control panel 
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| Post# 567580 , Reply# 43 1/7/2012 at 08:41 (4,491 days old) by 74simon () | ||
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Am having a bit of a clear out, mainly of things I don't use. I need the space really, and all Ebay earnings are going toward the Wareham Austin Maestro Preservation Society (members: 1)... 
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Post# 567581 , Reply# 44 1/7/2012 at 08:45 (4,491 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK) |
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Maybe i am in your junk
Pete
Junk mail that its LOLOLOL Just drop a test mail to alistair_d_kerr@hotmail.com and I can resend my email back The only stainless style Microwaves I can think of would be Moffats (although hardly small, manufactured by Tappen) or the usual Toshiba or National (now panasonic). Simons looks more like a commercial model although none the worse for that. There are plenty of Connies around, they are one of the most common vintage cleaners around, and 119s too if that what you meant earlier when you typed 911. If you meant 912 (commercial model) Simon has one of those on too, but you will be developing your bisceps if you were going to use that :) Al | ||
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Post# 567582 , Reply# 45 1/7/2012 at 08:47 (4,491 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK) |
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Maestros | ||
| Post# 567633 , Reply# 47 1/7/2012 at 13:45 (4,491 days old) by aquarius1984 (Planet earth) | ||
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Nightmare
Hmmmm yes.
Not saying anything, I feel like a fair old freak being somewhat disturbed by these, I mean its not like they can "get me" is it. But then who decided the shape of a ghost or a slimy monster should be all that frightens folk? Paul has a thing about VW Beetles and Citroen Dolly's that is on the same level as my disturbance with these things. I liken to it the laundry/boiler scene in home alone 1. Conquered my dislike of Hoover Seniors (same thing) wouldnt be alone in the same room as my Nans 6525C and now not phased by them at all. Perhaps il grow to not be bothered by these. As for the Fiesta 21 im pretty sure it had a black oven door, not the steel one shown in this one but then the Tricity President had the black door so maybe as my aunt had it second hand it may have been retrofitted. Can confirm it was the 21 as hers definitely had the hob warning lights, couple of her knobs were dodgy and wouldnt turn off properly meaning she either had to align them up with real precision to allow the light to go out or just shut off the cooker at the wall. Despite the safest option to turn it off completely she mostly chose to align them best she could (she was a lazy bitch anyway, prefered to spend her time in bed with strangers) than reach behind the rotisserie and flick the switch. God knows how none of her kids got burns as the hobs would occasionally turn themselves on. Never saw the Rotisserie part in action I doubt she even had the parts which is a shame I suppose. Not that she could cook. Sunday dinner in her eyes came with tinned carrots and tinned mushy peas. Anyway time for my valium now, where did i leave that bottle of Tudor Rose........... | ||
| Post# 567645 , Reply# 49 1/7/2012 at 14:46 (4,491 days old) by aquarius1984 (Planet earth) | ||
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What about one of these? Perfick | ||
| Post# 568036 , Reply# 50 1/9/2012 at 08:12 (4,489 days old) by aquarius1984 (Planet earth) | ||
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bump
sure theres more we can add folks :)
im digging fast as i can for stuff lol. Al, shouldnt of phrased my reference to Mums Leisure as I did, can see some confusement, but anyway I dont think Leisure was in with anyone at the time, My reckoning is that it was a 1975/6 model judging by where which was upto with model numbers and reviews. The Leisure Five Star Auto MKIII was just your average eye level grill gas cooker with auto programming of the oven and warming drawer. Its just the black glass and chrome it had plastered all over it and the various details on the clock dials almost scream Moffat, so unless it had inspiration taken from Moffats when Leisure designed it I dont know. Il try to find the one picture I have of it and post it. Rob | ||
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Post# 568050 , Reply# 51 1/9/2012 at 10:33 (4,489 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK) |
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Moffatt
Welcome from me Peter, the cooker looks great and nice to see the vintage smalls!!! For the top I would try a paste made with cool water of Ariel bio powder, coat it and leave it on overnight....the problem with many of these early ceramic white hobs is that they tend to discolour from underneath and not the top!!, my mums friend had the Moffatt with the radient rings and rotisserie, (she also had the Hoover 3301 twinny & Lux Z90) so in my eyes it was a great house, always loved the rotisserie feature and she did use it, boy the aroma of the checked roasting on the spit while playing outside was magic...
Al, Are you getting sniffy about Tricity Presidents??....LOl, Mum had one in the 70`s and I would say the quality and build was inline with the Moffats - albeit reduced in size...Lol Heres a few from the files, the Creda Jackson Topline.. 
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| Post# 568083 , Reply# 53 1/9/2012 at 14:33 (4,489 days old) by HotpointFan (United Kingdom) | ||
Sorry to go of topic... | ||
| Post# 568084 , Reply# 54 1/9/2012 at 14:33 (4,489 days old) by HotpointFan (United Kingdom) | ||
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PS | ||
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Post# 568202 , Reply# 55 1/10/2012 at 03:28 (4,488 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK) |
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Moffat 1960`s Brochure | ||
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Post# 568203 , Reply# 56 1/10/2012 at 03:29 (4,488 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK) |
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Moffat 1960`s Brochure | ||
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Post# 568204 , Reply# 57 1/10/2012 at 03:30 (4,488 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK) |
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Moffat 1960`s Brochure | ||
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Post# 568205 , Reply# 58 1/10/2012 at 03:32 (4,488 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK) |
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Moffat 1960`s Brochure | ||
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Post# 568206 , Reply# 59 1/10/2012 at 03:33 (4,488 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK) |
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Moffat 1960`s Brochure | ||
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Post# 568207 , Reply# 60 1/10/2012 at 03:34 (4,488 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK) |
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Moffat 1960`s Brochure | ||
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Post# 568208 , Reply# 61 1/10/2012 at 03:35 (4,488 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK) |
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Moffat 1960`s Brochure | ||
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Post# 568209 , Reply# 62 1/10/2012 at 03:36 (4,488 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK) |
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Moffat 1960`s Brochure | ||
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Post# 568210 , Reply# 63 1/10/2012 at 03:37 (4,488 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK) |
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Moffat 1960`s Brochure | ||
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Post# 568211 , Reply# 64 1/10/2012 at 03:39 (4,488 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK) |
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Moffat 1960`s Brochure | ||
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Post# 568213 , Reply# 65 1/10/2012 at 03:43 (4,488 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK) |
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Moffat E95 | ||
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Post# 568233 , Reply# 66 1/10/2012 at 07:52 (4,488 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK) |
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Moffat Brochure
Mike
Thanks for posting that absolutly cracking Moffat brochure, that will be heading to my hard drive once i get home :) - absolutly brilliant From the look of it the E95 is the ancestor of Pete's Fiesta 24, and I was about to speculate as the whether it was manufactured in the UK or not but I notice on the close-ups of the E75 the elelemt is on the bottom. I suppose "E" signifies electric as they also made gas cooker too. Interesting to see how it was almost on the cusp of kitchen design, with the 75 and to an extent the 95 signposting the way things were going to be. Al | ||
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Post# 568238 , Reply# 67 1/10/2012 at 08:37 (4,488 days old) by petek (Ontari ari ari O ) |
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Post# 568270 , Reply# 68 1/10/2012 at 12:05 (4,488 days old) by RevvinKevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land) |
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Peter, WELCOME to AW.org!
Peter, congrats on Moffet cooker! Neat, clean design, it looks to be in really nice condition and such a great price, wow! (interesting how they're called "cookers" in the UK and a "stove" or "range" over here)
~ Mike, thank you for posting the Moffet brochure, it's very neat to see how some of the designs differ slightly between countries. And... I love the way they set up the models. Can you imagine cooking a big meal in a nice cocktail dress, heels, full make up and hair like the model in reply #63? LOL
I really like the size and look of the stove pictured in reply #22 by vacbear58. Neat design and having the ability to adjust the oven rack height by turning the knobs, very cool! I also think the cooker he posted in reply #33 is very, VERY interesting! I have NEVER seen a "stove" with such a small upper "oven" like that! It looks like a toaster oven!
Questions: Are the upper ovens on these usable as ovens or are they only a rotisserie or broiler? Also, are all the upper doors stainless or do you have any with a glass door? All the ones we have here with an upper oven are larger and usually had a see-thru glass door. However I don't think they had the ability to rotiss.
~ Petek, I believe the upper-end / high-end ranges here have rotisserie in them. I have a Miele oven (what I consider "high-end") that's convention and has a rotisserie. Hmm, it is European tho.......
Kevin | ||
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Post# 568271 , Reply# 69 1/10/2012 at 12:05 (4,488 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK) |
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Rotesserie
Pete
There might be the odd one or two built in ovens which have them, and actually we do have some builts ins (or normally built under) which are wider than the normal 60cm (24") wide oven - I think they are more common in those. But it is something you hardly ever see. I would say the last cooker with an eye level ovenette/rotesserie we had would have been the Creda/Jackson that Mike posted in reply 51 and I am reasonaly sure these went out of production in the mid to late 1980s. Its a shame because for many people who are tall like me they were a very good design option - not haveing to bend to use the grill/broiler, the main oven nice and high and a storage drawer (at one time these would have been heated too) underneath. I believe there were two factors to eventually kill them off - one was the wisespread adoption of seperate hob and oven arrangement with a wall oven set under the counter and the other was a variation of this, the free standing cooker with no splashback, and controls arranged across the front edge of the cooker so it looked built in. Both these arrngements were widespread throughout Europe but were not adopted here (mostly) until the mid 1980s onward. The Belling Format, launched here in around 1979, was our homegrown version of this. I was surprised, and a bit horrified, to see when I visited Canada in 2010 that some ranges there were adopting this layout with a second, smaller oven/broiler above the main oven. I would literally have to get on my hands and knees to see how things were progressing in the oven - and no way am I doing that. Belling Format below 
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Post# 568276 , Reply# 70 1/10/2012 at 12:22 (4,488 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK) |
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Gosh, this is getting to be a long thread :)
Kevin
The cooker in reply #33 does not have an upper oven at all, it is simply an open compartment for the broiler - we would call this an "eye-level" grill - most commonly seen on UK gas cookers (or we call them stoves too, there is even a brand called "Stoves" and very good they are too) but also on some electric too. As regards the high level "ovenettes" it was a matter of evolution - origionally they were just broilers with a rotesserie under and perhaps a low power element for warming - not thermostatically controlled. Both the Moffats and the Jackson would have been like this, and the earliest versions of the Jackson did indeed have a drop down glass door - later side opening black glass. I suppose it would have been towards the middle of the 1970s that definatly the Jackson/Creda and, I think Pete's Moffat, got a proper, thermostatically controlled Oven/Broiler combination. (UK)Pete's Moffat also had the "Roast Meter" which placed it very TOL above the Jackson/Creda, although it later had a fan oven as the main oven, which to me personally is the bigger advantage. Al | ||
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Post# 568288 , Reply# 71 1/10/2012 at 13:38 (4,488 days old) by RevvinKevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land) |
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Long threads are a good thing!
Thank you for the info Al!
Yes I see how having a rotisserie/broiler at eye level would be an advantage. It almost seems like broilers are becoming a thing of the past here too, but I could be completely off the mark here.
I'm assuming convection ovens (fan ovens) are a lot more common in the UK / Europe then the US, because they tend to only be in the upper-end models here.
Below is the Miele Novotronic oven I have. I was fortunate enough to find this on the damaged / discounted table a few years ago. The door glass was broken and they'd marked the price from nearly $2900 down to $500! The new door assembly (3 layers of glass) cost $300, so more then a $2000 discount! YAY!
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Post# 568295 , Reply# 72 1/10/2012 at 13:49 (4,488 days old) by RevvinKevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land) |
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Also.......
I don't know what to think about these 30" width ranges with the "double ovens", other then the main (only real oven) is just way too low! I agree with you, I don't want to be getting down on my hands and knees to access or view what's happening in there. I pulled this image off the Whirlpool website (there are plenty of other brands like this too). But from what I could see on the specs page of the site, the upper "ovenette" (I like that) does not have the ability to be used as a broiler. Also it's way too small to even think about putting a usable rotisserie in there.
I can see how having two ovens would be advantages, but give me to FULL SIZED wall ovens and make them convection, thank you very much!
Kevin 
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Post# 568298 , Reply# 73 1/10/2012 at 13:52 (4,488 days old) by petek (Ontari ari ari O ) |
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I hear ya Al on those stoves with the little oven above the regular oven. I think Maytag brought them out first but even I was thinking I don't know what I'd do if my back went out (which is does occasionally). There's no way I could reach down that far and also,, what if I was ok and reaching down into a hot oven and that was the time my back decided to go out..could be painful.
I still don't get why induction stoves are not being pushed here. In fact I was in our Sears recently and didn't see one this time,, only the cooktop.. Not one in our Lowes which just opened, not one in the Lowes across the river in Michigan either. None of the big furniture stores here which have large appliance section carry them . Only one store here had one,, a Samsung with 3 induction elements and one regular element. | ||
| Post# 568334 , Reply# 76 1/10/2012 at 17:37 (4,487 days old) by peterlondon (london uk) | ||
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just a little chuckle If I had brought this stove to spain it would have consumed the allowance for the whole house,but then again,using next doors fridge,and candles I guess I could have coped! | ||
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Post# 568428 , Reply# 77 1/11/2012 at 02:34 (4,487 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK) |
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Ovenette
(UK)Pete
Thnaks for the clarification on the Moffat, I had always assumed that it was fully thermostatic control, I presume you mean 150F rather than 150C. The later version Jackson/Creda does have a fully thermostatic ovenette, from the time when the controls were arranged in a single line along the top. I will need to have a closer look later, but on a quick look last night I am not entirely sure it still has the rotesserie though. Some of our Italian members have posted about limitations on electricity supplys coming into houses and when on holiday in Spain I have seen how little electrical capacity there can be when faced with 1KW water heaters. I know the incoming temperature of the (cold) water is probably higher but you soon learn that, when showering you turn the water off while soaping and a bath is almost out of the question! Kevin LOVE your Miele oven, although I must confess I am something of a miele nut myself, I would have liked to have got a Miele myself when I replaced my standard oven recently but it would have been at least 3 times the price (and could have easily been even more!) of the Neff oven I chose. All but the very cheapest ovens here come with a fan oven although the option is often given for non fan top/botton heat as well, and in more up market models combinations of both. Non fan cooking is supposed to be better for baking but I must say I have never seen any difference and I prefer to have a fan oven with consistant heat throughout all the shelves. (Can)Pete I actually had a look in both Sears and The Bay when in Vancouver and was quite impressed to see several induction models then, but I guess the "need to buy special pans" (by and large a myth) may be putting people off them. Built in induction tops are becoming a lot more common here and a great deal cheaper too. They are not often seen in standard sized cookers but are becoming a lot more common in what we call range cookers (usually around 900mm or wider with two ovens side by side) - they are also becoming very popular in commercial applications. Al It was there I also saw the "double oven" | ||
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Post# 568465 , Reply# 78 1/11/2012 at 11:18 (4,487 days old) by RevvinKevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land) |
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Al, I have to say I have gotten spoiled by this Miele oven! It has so many different and VERY useful features, I just LOVE it! Unfortunately It’s not installed in my kitchen, I have it set up in my pantry / laundry room. I’d have to remodel in order to have it in the kitchen. But hey, it works perfectly where it is and I don’t mind walking a few extra feet to get to it. Pete(London), The man who created this website, our webmaster is the Robert (Unimatic1140). He’s a really great guy with an incredible collection and a huge amount of knowledge about the older (US) washing machines! The link below is video I shot while attending the Wash-In Robert & Fred hosted in May, 2010. Kevin CLICK HERE TO GO TO RevvinKevin's LINK | ||
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Post# 569451 , Reply# 79 1/16/2012 at 02:51 (4,482 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK) |
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Moffat Built in
Kevin
Apologies for the delay in responding, last week was a weel from hell workwise and I was two shades of green - partly over the oven and partly over the pantry/laundry room - you guys are lucky to have so much space. Anyway, I have decided that jolly green giant is not a good look on me, so moving on ..... I posted a link above to an ebay ad for a Moffat oven, well here it is .... 
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Post# 569452 , Reply# 80 1/16/2012 at 03:00 (4,482 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK) |
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Brace yourself - its a big 'un
Not half, I thougght it would have fitted in the back of my hatchback as I just recently had quite a large dryer in there - WRONG! So I had a 12 mile journey home with the back door of the car tied down and me hoping for the best. Inspite of having to drive up one or two rather steep hills all was well.
I had neither time or energy to wire it up, and as it was stored outside (under cover) there are a lot of dust and cob webs on it. I did clean up the exterior though - as my mother would have said "it had the dirt of years". Here is the inside of the oven - the "stay clean" linings were not at all bad given that its 40+ years old. It is unusual to have a stay clean panel for the floor, those were normally vitreous enamel. I could not find a ratings plate but this was definatly manufactured in the UK. There is no fan in this even (did not expect one) but it does have a roasting meter - very unusual and it will be interesting to try it out 
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Post# 569453 , Reply# 81 1/16/2012 at 03:03 (4,482 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK) |
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Temperature | ||
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Post# 569454 , Reply# 82 1/16/2012 at 03:07 (4,482 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK) |
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Elements
Now this gives me an oppertunity to demonstrate the difference between British and US ovens of that time. The side panels hang on rails and the elemenets are behind them - one on each side. This was how all electric ovens were at that time unless they had a fan, although even then I suspect they used the same panels but with no elements behind them
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Post# 569493 , Reply# 83 1/16/2012 at 10:17 (4,482 days old) by petek (Ontari ari ari O ) |
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Al, what do you figure was the reason for having two elements along the side as opposed to one on the bottom? Conventional wisdom being that heat rises and all that but since an oven interior is such a small confined space may obliterate that. As well, two elements, two connections, more wiring = higher cost to manufacture etc.
I was thinking it might actually be less even for say baking two pies or loaves side by side as rightly or wrongly assuming that the closer the pans are to the sides of the oven/elements, those sides are going to get hotter that the middle. | ||
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Post# 569497 , Reply# 84 1/16/2012 at 10:40 (4,482 days old) by petek (Ontari ari ari O ) |
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Here's someone in Hamilton selling the same old Moffat stove we had. When mom redid her kitchen she went with a new standard width stove width between the cabinets fearing that if the old Moffat died or she had to sell the house it would look odd having a big gap of space leftover. My sister took it figuring they'd possibly use it one day but ended up giving it away. Look what this person is asking.. $1000.00 yikes
CLICK HERE TO GO TO petek's LINK | ||
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Post# 569847 , Reply# 85 1/19/2012 at 05:01 (4,479 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK) |
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Evolution
Pete
I am now wandering into the fields of speculation but I think it was more a matter or evolution than anything else - that an the fact that the UK is an island. This style of oven layout was not seen in Euroope either - to the best of my knowledge. I think a lot of it stems from the fact that we did not have any tradition of having the grill (broiler) in the oven. Right from the earliest days of electric cookers the grill was usually combined with a large rectangular hot plate on the hob. The grill element was lattice of spiral wound wire which would glow red hot when switched on - rather like electric heaters. To use it as a grill a special pan with a wire tray would be inserted on runners underneath it. As a hotplate (and it was pretty useless as such) a reflector would be inserted instead. So it was common to have a cavity under the hob for the grill - this space could also be used for warming a few plates as well either from heat from the grill or from the oven underneath. So there was no "top" element in the oven to start with, so no inducement to supplement this with a bottom element. Add to this that in most early electric cookers (from the 1920s onwards) the control panel was placed adjacent to the oven which would narrow the space even more - remember that most cookers (except the most luxury models) would only have been 20-24 inches wide - so the ability to place something like two cake pans side by side was practically impossible, so this design may have been adopted to assist in the distribution of heat and make the temperature more uniform, particularly in comparison to gas, with whom there was a great rivilary - gas being more established in the market to begin with. There was also the added benefit that the panels were easily removeable for cleaning - stay clean linings only arriving in the early 1970s - you will see from the picture I posted above that, although the Moffat oven has been well used, the oven walls behind the linings are spotless and I am sure they were never cleaned. With the almost universal adoption of eye level grills in gas cookers at the end of the 1950s some electric cookers followed that same style (and some with ovenettes/rotesseries as discussed above), while others retained the under hob grill (the hob having 3 or 4 coil elements as seen in the USA/Canada and the grill entirely independent) and usually a stoarge compartment or drawer under the oven - this sometimes had a heating element too. As time went on, especially with larger models (and I am talking 21/22 inch wide vs 18/20inch), the grill cavity was made larger and the oven lowered, at the expense of the storage compartment underneath - a definate case of form over function as not only did you lose the storage space, but the oven was also significantly lower. There was now almost always a drop down door over the grill compartment too so inevitably, as a means of adding more features, the compartment became more insulated and the grill was combined with a fully thermostatically controlled smaller oven - and so our tradition of double ovens was established and continues to this day and almost universally too. Ironically, this arrangement used top and bottom heat, although the bottom element (if there was one) was not exposed this is the common arrangement in European ovens. This carried on up to the mid 1980s or so. By this time the UK designs were starting to look very long in the tooth and, as the market for kitchen renovations really took off, there was a wide scale adoption of European and particularly the German Neff and Bosch ovens - often bundled in as part of the renovation package. The common arrangement, when not having split level, was to have a single oven (which could equally been used as a wall oven) built in under a hob. In many respects this was a retrograde step for not only were there no easily removeable or stay clean linings - heat was top/bottom or fan (convention) and the grill was in the oven, but it was a return to the hated solid rings which had been phased out in the UK 20 years before in favour of more controllable coil rings. Coil rings seem to have never been adopted in Europe - I wonder why? As the UK manufactured units struggled against European imports (and some a great deal cheaper and far inferior quality to the Neff/Bosch units) this apparently unique oven arrangement seems to have died away - aided and abetted by the almost universal adoption of fan ovens in all but the very cheapest units. The fan arrangement did not require the side mounted elements so the walls of the oven could be moulded to fit the shelves or what seems to be much more common now and much cheaper to manufacture - wire grids on each side to support the shelves. In fairness these do make the ovens easier to clean as well. I cannot think of a free standing standard sized cooker which offers combinations of top/bottom and fan cooking -its either one or the other and mostly fan. It is quite common in wall ovens to have a choice of one type or the other - apparently top/bottom is consider better for baking than fan, although personally I prefer fan (convection) for everything. Finally, there is one bit of the British legacy which does live on, that of the double oven. The development of wall ovens here largely mirrored that of free-standing and indeed a lot of components were shared between both. The oven with separate grill compartment was universal until the mid-late 1970s when Belling brought out its Formula range of separates which for the first time included a single oven combined with grill. Fan ovens and double ovens also appeared - actually somewhat ahead of their freestanding equivalents, but then split level was more upmarket. There were European varities of this as well both oven and a half (full size oven and snaller oven grill) or true double ovens. The standard European single oven was around 60cm high which, when "built under" fitted into a cavity 70 or more commonly 72cm high. The gap was usually filled by a blanking panel or sometimes a drawer. But from the mid 1990s (I think) came models for building under which were 72cm high, now with a smaller oven/grill and a second "main" oven - larger than the oven/grill but not as large as a standard single. And I can only think that this came from British demand for the double oven as there was certainly no such European tradition in free standing models that I can think of and yet pretty much all the manufacturers have them (and sometimes more than one model) in their line up. To me, when built under, its the worst of all worlds for not only is the main oven set very low, but its also small as well. But i did use one of these as a wall oven for a while and it was quite good but I found I did not use the smaller oven at all, and the main oven was a bit small for my baking so discarded this for another arrangement which I am very happy with indeed. Finally, a photo I snatched off eaby - this is an English Electric Rapide cooker from the late 1960s/early 1970s showing off its removeable oven linings. Sorry, this appears to have turned into a novel - hope it was interesting Al 
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Post# 569886 , Reply# 86 1/19/2012 at 09:25 (4,479 days old) by jamiel (Detroit, Michigan and Palm Springs, CA) |
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I remember a long article in the Wall Street Journal 15 or so years ago about the globalization of the whitegoods (major appliance) market where it went into a good bit of detail about the differences (specifically within Europe) of appliances and how it might be tough to globalize them. The article specifically mentioned that side heat was the norm in the UK, but fan forced was the norm in most of Continental Europe. Apparently for gas ovens too they have/had the heat on the side/back in the UK. The article also mentioned laundry differences (toploading h-axis in France/boilwash in Germany/clothes dryers in Scandinavia/...) The article may have had something to do with the Whirlpool/Philips merger (so that might give anyone researching it a date to look around)
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Post# 569950 , Reply# 87 1/19/2012 at 14:10 (4,479 days old) by petek (Ontari ari ari O ) |
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Post# 570111 , Reply# 88 1/20/2012 at 06:36 (4,478 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK) |
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Moffat
Congratulations Al, looking good with all the steel & chrome....are you taking out the combis you have or is this for the conservatory kitchen??
Yes , having to leave the boot open all tied down and praying you have taken the route with no hills...Lol, sounds very familiar, the things we done in the name of applainces... I never gave it a thought growing up about ovens having side elements, just what we grew up with but it didnt seem to give us any iffy results, I do miss them, love the oven space, and are much easier to clean than bottom exposed elements I`m sure unless the element pops out, There are only a few small slot in cookers that have a main multifunction oven & second smaller traditional oven & grill, interestingly enough these are by Belling (who this year is 100yrs old)....Heres their 60cm slot in Induction Hob model... CLICK HERE TO GO TO chestermikeuk's LINK 
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Post# 570113 , Reply# 89 1/20/2012 at 06:44 (4,478 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK) |
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English Electric | ||
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Post# 570114 , Reply# 90 1/20/2012 at 06:48 (4,478 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK) |
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English Electric Rapide 57 | ||
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Post# 570116 , Reply# 91 1/20/2012 at 06:51 (4,478 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK) |
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English Electric Rapide 57 | ||
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Post# 570118 , Reply# 92 1/20/2012 at 06:54 (4,478 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK) |
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English Electric Rapide 57 | ||
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Post# 570123 , Reply# 93 1/20/2012 at 07:16 (4,478 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK) |
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And Remember | ||
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Post# 570124 , Reply# 94 1/20/2012 at 07:29 (4,478 days old) by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK) |
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Well Belling
have gone and introduced a new version....electric grill, would have loved to have seen it gas with rotisserie....
CLICK HERE TO GO TO chestermikeuk's LINK 
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Post# 570133 , Reply# 95 1/20/2012 at 07:54 (4,478 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK) |
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Hey Mike ....
Which model of the English Electric cookers had the self cleaning where it got super hot in the oven to burn the crud off ???
I remember the design as being the similar to yours but also had a self clean setting on the clock as it took a few hours it also had a foot pedal that locked so the door could not be opened untill it had cooled down ! Only ever used it once as we were on a coin meter for the electric and boy oh boy did it ever swallow money when you put it on clean ......:) Austin | ||
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Post# 570136 , Reply# 96 1/20/2012 at 08:22 (4,478 days old) by petek (Ontari ari ari O ) |
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Post# 570150 , Reply# 97 1/20/2012 at 09:40 (4,478 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK) |
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Self clean & more
Pete
It was my pleasure. Mike As regards he Moffat it was a matter of bad timing as I had just bought a new Neff oven (literally installed it the night before the Moffat was listed) to repace the large of my two old units. Had I not done so, I would have re-located the combi micro (which I still love by the way) and installed the Moffat (subject to testing) in place of the two. As it is, its the conservatory kitchen - following in the footsteps of early 1990s Delia. Mind you she did not have a couple of twinnies, a washing machine and a drier in there! Its getting crowded ....... Interesting to see the rotary cook guide on the 57, I suppose they took the idea from the old EE Liberator washing machine. My mum had the later version of this - the 68, no cook guide but supposedly fully temperature controlled upper oven and stay clean linings in the main oven. Does the 57 have one of those special sensors on the back LH ring (simmerstat?). Mums did, but useless as the tringular ring supports were slightly too short and it would constantly drop into the spill well below. The upper oven was useless too, I dont remember now if it had a bottom element or not or whether it just depended on the grill but everthing came out burnt ...... So when people wax lyrical over 1970s design & build it always brings this cooker to mind - I was there and it was not always the case ..... Main oven was good though, that was what I learned to bake on. Bought in 1974 I think it was then coming towards the end of its production run, I think it was then the EE name was dropped although the cookers lived on as an Electra with updated styling and in a range of colours - harvest gold, green, red. I think the B&W photo above is a 66 - my Aunt Jean had one of those. Unfortunatly I was not present when this cooker was bought or it would not have been! I was angling for a Moffat (probably too expensive) or a Tricity President - actually the EE was replaced in 1987 by a later and not so attractive President. I never did like the later Carron (I think renamed Cannon by this time), I always preferred the earlier version which came in both gas and electric versions, although come to think of it I don't think I ever saw an electric version of the Cannon. I do think B&N could do with a nice burnished copper hood over it too :) Is Belling part of the Rangemaster group now? As a range, with the grill built into the upper oven I think it is a reasonable design, but I do think two grills is a bit OTT. I doubt it will do well as the vent hood would have to be placed very high over the grill and I dont think an Xpelair or Vent-Axia fan over the cooker would be acceptable these days. Austin, Did not know EE produced a self clean oven - if asked I would have cited the Creda Autoclean as the only UK cooker of that era to have a self cleaning oven although your mention of a foot pedal does set a faint bell jangling ..... I cannot think of any other UK manufactured cooker with a self cleaning oven at all (certainly not of that vintage) although I know there are a few imported ones. Indeed I bought a Baumatic self cleaner myself in 2000 - and that was a pile of crap n'all! It lasted three months before I (bitterly) replaced it - wishing I had kept the old Neff 1057 which was brilliant. Al | ||
| Post# 707583 , Reply# 98 10/6/2013 at 15:05 (3,853 days old) by bellingmad (Northumberland) | ||
cleaning the hob
Hi, I love your moffat cooker, I havent read through all of your messages so dont know if you got an answer for cleaning the cermaic hob, but astonish cleaning paste ive found is really good! I cleaned my friends hob and it brought off alot of the burnt on marks...maybe do a test spot first, but it shouldnt scratch the glass... thanks Ian
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